Taylor Wilson: My radical plan for small nuclear fission reactors

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Mile Živković Lektor: Dejan Vicai

Well, I have a big announcement to make today,

Imam veliko obaveštenje za danas

and I'm really excited about this.

i zaista sam uzbuđen zbog ovoga.

And this may be a little bit of a surprise

Ovo će vas možda iznenaditi

to many of you who know my research

ako znate moje istraživanje

and what I've done well.

i moje uspehe.

I've really tried to solve some big problems:

Pokušao sam da rešim neke velike probleme:

counterterrorism, nuclear terrorism,

antiterorizam, nuklearni terorizam,

and health care and diagnosing and treating cancer,

zdravstvo i dijagnozu i lečenje raka,

but I started thinking about all these problems,

ali počeo sam da razmišljam o svim ovim problemima

and I realized that the really biggest problem we face,

i shvatio sam da je najveći problem s kojim se suočavamo,

what all these other problems come down to,

na šta se svode svi ovi drugi problemi,

is energy, is electricity, the flow of electrons.

to je energija, struja, tok elektrona.

And I decided that I was going to set out

Odlučio sam da krenem

to try to solve this problem.

i pokušam da rešim ovaj problem.

And this probably is not what you're expecting.

Ovo verovatno nije ono što očekujete.

You're probably expecting me to come up here

Verovatno ste očekivali da dođem ovde

and talk about fusion,

i pričam o fuziji,

because that's what I've done most of my life.

jer sam to radio većinu svog života.

But this is actually a talk about, okay --

Ali ovo je zapravo govor o -

(Laughter) —

(Smeh) -

but this is actually a talk about fission.

ali ovo je zapravo govor o fisiji.

It's about perfecting something old,

O usavršavanju nečeg starog,

and bringing something old into the 21st century.

i vraćanju nečeg starog u 21. vek.

Let's talk a little bit about how nuclear fission works.

Hajde da malo pričamo o tome kako funkcioniše nuklearna fisija.

In a nuclear power plant, you have

U nuklearnoj elektrani imate

a big pot of water that's under high pressure,

veliki sud sa vodom koji je pod visokim pritiskom,

and you have some fuel rods,

i imate šipke sa gorivom

and these fuel rods are encased in zirconium,

koje su obložene cirkonijumom,

and they're little pellets of uranium dioxide fuel,

i one su loptice goriva uranijum dioksida.

and a fission reaction is controlled and maintained at a proper level,

Reakcija fisije se kontroliše i održava na određenom nivou

and that reaction heats up water,

i ta reakcija zagreva vodu,

the water turns to steam, steam turns the turbine,

voda se pretvara u paru, para okreće turbinu,

and you produce electricity from it.

i tako dobijate struju.

This is the same way we've been producing electricity,

Na isti ovaj način proizvodimo struju

the steam turbine idea, for 100 years,

već 100 godina, preko parne turbine,

and nuclear was a really big advancement

i nuklearna energija je bila veliki napredak

in a way to heat the water,

u načinu zagrevanja vode,

but you still boil water and that turns to steam and turns the turbine.

ali još uvek morate zagrevati vodu koja se pretvara u paru i okreće turbinu.

And I thought, you know, is this the best way to do it?

A ja sam pomislio, da li je ovo najbolji način da se ovo radi?

Is fission kind of played out,

Da li je fisija istrošena ideja

or is there something left to innovate here?

ili još ima prostora za inovaciju?

And I realized that I had hit upon something

Shvatio sam da sam naišao na nešto

that I think has this huge potential to change the world.

za šta mislim da ima veliki potencijal da promeni svet.

And this is what it is.

O ovome pričam.

This is a small modular reactor.

Ovo je mali modularni reaktor.

So it's not as big as the reactor you see in the diagram here.

Nije velik kao reaktor kojeg vidite na ovom dijagramu.

This is between 50 and 100 megawatts.

Ovo je između 50 i 100 megavata.

But that's a ton of power.

Ali to je puno energije.

That's between, say at an average use,

Ako pričamo o prosečnoj potrošnji,

that's maybe 25,000 to 100,000 homes could run off that.

recimo 25 do 100 hiljada domova bi moglo da se snabdeva time.

Now the really interesting thing about these reactors

Stvarno zanimljiva stvar u vezi sa ovim reaktorima

is they're built in a factory.

je to da se prave u fabrikama.

So they're modular reactors that are built

To su modularni reaktori koji se u principu

essentially on an assembly line,

prave na pokretnoj traci

and they're trucked anywhere in the world,

i otpremaju bilo gde u svetu,

you plop them down, and they produce electricity.

samo ih posadite, i stvaraju struju.

This region right here is the reactor.

Ovaj region ovde je reaktor.

And this is buried below ground, which is really important.

To je zakopano pod zemljom, što je veoma bitno.

For someone who's done a lot of counterterrorism work,

Kao neko ko je dosta radio na antiterorizmu,

I can't extol to you

ne mogu vam opisati

how great having something buried below the ground is

koliko je sjajno imati nešto zakopano pod zemljom,

for proliferation and security concerns.

zbog briga u vezi sa širenjem i bezbednošću.

And inside this reactor is a molten salt,

Unutar reaktora je topljena so,

so anybody who's a fan of thorium,

pa ćete biti veoma uzbuđeni zbog ovoga

they're going to be really excited about this,

ukoliko volite torijum,

because these reactors happen to be really good

jer su ovi reaktori veoma dobri

at breeding and burning the thorium fuel cycle,

u stvaranju i sagorevanju gorivnog ciklusa torijuma,

uranium-233.

uranijuma 233.

But I'm not really concerned about the fuel.

Ali gorivo me ne brine previše.

You can run these off -- they're really hungry,

Ovo možete snabdevati - veoma su gladni,

they really like down-blended weapons pits,

oni su poput razvodnjenih jama za oružje,

so that's highly enriched uranium and weapons-grade plutonium

tako da je to veoma obogaćen uranijum i plutonijum za oružje

that's been down-blended.

koji su razvodnjeni.

It's made into a grade where it's not usable for a nuclear weapon,

Dovedeni su do stupnja gde se ne mogu koristiti za nuklearna oružja,

but they love this stuff.

ali obožavaju ovo.

And we have a lot of it sitting around,

Imamo dosta toga oko nas,

because this is a big problem.

jer je ovo veliki problem.

You know, in the Cold War, we built up this huge arsenal

Tokom Hladnog rata, stekli smo ogroman arsenal

of nuclear weapons, and that was great,

nuklearnog naoružanja, i to je bilo super,

and we don't need them anymore,

ali nam više ne treba.

and what are we doing with all the waste, essentially?

I šta zapravo uraditi sa ovim otpadom?

What are we doing with all the pits of those nuclear weapons?

Šta ćemo uraditi sa svim tim jamama s nuklearnim oružjem?

Well, we're securing them, and it would be great

Obezbeđujemo ih, i bilo bi sjajno

if we could burn them, eat them up,

kada bi mogli da ih sagorimo, potrošimo,

and this reactor loves this stuff.

i ovaj reaktor to obožava.

So it's a molten salt reactor. It has a core,

To je reaktor od topljene soli. Ima i jezgro,

and it has a heat exchanger from the hot salt,

i deo koji menja toplu, radiokativnu so,

the radioactive salt, to a cold salt which isn't radioactive.

u hladnu so koja nije radioaktivna.

It's still thermally hot but it's not radioactive.

Još uvek je termički topla ali nije radioaktivna.

And then that's a heat exchanger

I tu je deo za razmenu toplote,

to what makes this design really, really interesting,

a ono što zaista čini ovaj dizajn veoma zanimljivim

and that's a heat exchanger to a gas.

je razmena toplote u gas.

So going back to what I was saying before about all power

Vratimo se na ono što sam pre rekao o tome

being produced -- well, other than photovoltaic --

kako se sva energija koja se proizvodi - osim fotonaponske -

being produced by this boiling of steam and turning a turbine,

proizvodi se pomoću vrele pare i okretanja turbine,

that's actually not that efficient, and in fact,

a to zapravo nije veoma efikasno i u stvari,

in a nuclear power plant like this,

u nuklearnoj elektrani poput ove,

it's only roughly 30 to 35 percent efficient.

efikasno je samo otprilike 30 do 35%.

That's how much thermal energy the reactor's putting out

Toliko energije stvara toplotni reaktor

to how much electricity it's producing.

u odnosu na količinu struje koju proizvodi.

And the reason the efficiencies are so low is these reactors

Razlog za nisku efikasnost je to što reaktori

operate at pretty low temperature.

rade na prilično niskim temperaturama.

They operate anywhere from, you know,

Rade otprilike negde između

maybe 200 to 300 degrees Celsius.

možda 200 do 300 stepeni Celzijusove skale.

And these reactors run at 600 to 700 degrees Celsius,

A ovi reaktori rade na 600 do 700 stepeni Celzijusa,

which means the higher the temperature you go to,

što znači da što je veća temperatura,

thermodynamics tells you that you will have higher efficiencies.

termodinamika kaže da ćete imati i veću efikasnost.

And this reactor doesn't use water. It uses gas,

Ovaj reaktor ne koristi vodu nego gas,

so supercritical CO2 or helium,

natkritični CO2 ili helijum,

and that goes into a turbine,

i to ide u turbinu,

and this is called the Brayton cycle.

i naziva se Brajtonov ciklus.

This is the thermodynamic cycle that produces electricity,

Ovo je termodinamički ciklus koji stvara struju,

and this makes this almost 50 percent efficient,

i čini proces efikasnim skoro 50%,

between 45 and 50 percent efficiency.

efikasnost je između 45 i 50%.

And I'm really excited about this,

I zaista sam uzbuđen zbog ovoga,

because it's a very compact core.

jer je jezgro veoma kompaktno.

Molten salt reactors are very compact by nature,

Reaktori sa topljenom soli su prirodno veoma kompaktni

but what's also great is you get a lot more electricity out

ali sjajno je i to što dobijate puno više struje

for how much uranium you're fissioning,

za količinu uranijuma u procesu fisije,

not to mention the fact that these burn up.

a da ne spominjemo to da se ovo sagoreva.

Their burn-up is much higher.

Njihovo sagorevanje je puno veće.

So for a given amount of fuel you put in the reactor,

Za određenu količinu goriva u reaktoru,

a lot more of it's being used.

puno više toga se koristi.

And the problem with a traditional nuclear power plant like this

Problem sa tradicionalnom nuklearnom elektranom poput ove je to

is, you've got these rods that are clad in zirconium,

što imate ove šipke prekrivene cirkonijumom,

and inside them are uranium dioxide fuel pellets.

i unutar njih su kuglice s gorivom od uranijum dioksida.

Well, uranium dioxide's a ceramic,

Uranijum dioksid je keramički,

and ceramic doesn't like releasing what's inside of it.

i keramika ne voli da ispušta ono što sadrži.

So you have what's called the xenon pit,

Imate ksenonsku jamu,

and so some of these fission products love neutrons.

i neki od proizvoda fisije vole neutrone.

They love the neutrons that are going on

Vole neutrone koji se kreću

and helping this reaction take place.

i omogućavaju ovu reakciju.

And they eat them up, which means that, combined with

I oni ih jedu, što znači da u kombinaciji sa činjenicom

the fact that the cladding doesn't last very long,

da oblaganje ne traje veoma dugo,

you can only run one of these reactors

možete pokretati jedan od ovih reaktora

for roughly, say, 18 months without refueling it.

oko 18 meseci bez dopune goriva.

So these reactors run for 30 years without refueling,

Ovi reaktori funkcionišu 30 godina bez dopune goriva,

which is, in my opinion, very, very amazing,

što je po mom mišljenju neverovatno,

because it means it's a sealed system.

jer znači da je to zatvoren sistem.

No refueling means you can seal them up

Ako nema dopune goriva znači da ih možete zatvoriti

and they're not going to be a proliferation risk,

i neće biti rizika od proliferacije,

and they're not going to have

i neće imati

either nuclear material or radiological material

ni nuklearnog ni radiološkog materijala

proliferated from their cores.

koji se širi iz jezgara.

But let's go back to safety, because everybody

Ali vratimo se na bezbednost, jer posle Fukušime

after Fukushima had to reassess the safety of nuclear,

svi su morali da ponovo procene bezbednost nuklearne energije

and one of the things when I set out to design a power reactor

i jedna od stvari koju sam imao na umu kada sam krenuo da smislim reaktor,

was it had to be passively and intrinsically safe,

bila je to da mora da bude pasivno i suštinski bezbedan,

and I'm really excited about this reactor

i zaista sam uzbuđen zbog ovog reaktora

for essentially two reasons.

iz dva razloga.

One, it doesn't operate at high pressure.

Prvi je to da ne radi pod velikim pritiskom.

So traditional reactors like a pressurized water reactor

Tradicionalni reaktori poput onog sa vodom pod pritiskom

or boiling water reactor, they're very, very hot water

ili vrelom vodom, tu se radi o veoma vreloj vodi

at very high pressures, and this means, essentially,

na jako visokim temperaturama, a to zapravo znači

in the event of an accident, if you had any kind of breach

da u slučaju nesreće, ako se desi bilo kakvo probijanje

of this stainless steel pressure vessel,

ovog čeličnog suda pod pritiskom,

the coolant would leave the core.

rashladna tečnost bi napustila jezgro.

These reactors operate at essentially atmospheric pressure,

Ovi reaktori rade na atmosferskom pritisku,

so there's no inclination for the fission products

tako da za proizvode fisije nema sklonosti

to leave the reactor in the event of an accident.

da napuste jezgro u slučaju nesreće.

Also, they operate at high temperatures,

Takođe rade na visokim temperaturama,

and the fuel is molten, so they can't melt down,

i gorivo je istopljeno, tako da ne mogu da se istope,

but in the event that the reactor ever went out of tolerances,

ali u slučaju da reaktor ikada ode od dozvoljenih odstupanja

or you lost off-site power in the case

ili izgubite napajanje u slučaju nečeg

of something like Fukushima, there's a dump tank.

poput Fukušime, tu je rezervoar za otpad.

Because your fuel is liquid, and it's combined with your coolant,

Zato što je gorivo tečno i meša se sa rastvorom za hlađenje,

you could actually just drain the core

možete samo izliti jezgro

into what's called a sub-critical setting,

u vankritično okruženje,

basically a tank underneath the reactor

što je u principu rezervoar ispod reaktora

that has some neutrons absorbers.

koji apsorbuje neutrone.

And this is really important, because the reaction stops.

I ovo je veoma važno jer se zaustavlja reakcija.

In this kind of reactor, you can't do that.

U ovakvom reaktoru to ne možete uraditi.

The fuel, like I said, is ceramic inside zirconium fuel rods,

Kao što sam rekao, gorivo je keramika unutar šipki cirkonijuma,

and in the event of an accident in one of these type of reactors,

i u slučaju nesreće sa jednim od ovih reaktora,

Fukushima and Three Mile Island --

Fukušima i ostrvo Tri Milje -

looking back at Three Mile Island, we didn't really see this for a while —

gledajući na ostrvo Tri Milje, ovo zaista dugo nismo videli -

but these zirconium claddings on these fuel rods,

ali ove obloge od cirkonijuma na šipkama goriva,

what happens is, when they see high pressure water,

kada vide vodu pod visokim pritiskom,

steam, in an oxidizing environment,

paru, u okruženju koje oksidira,

they'll actually produce hydrogen,

zapravo će proizvesti vodonik,

and that hydrogen has this explosive capability

i taj vodonik ima ovo eksplozivno svojstvo

to release fission products.

da ispušta proizvode fisije.

So the core of this reactor, since it's not under pressure

Jezgro reaktora, pošto nije pod pritiskom,

and it doesn't have this chemical reactivity,

i nema hemijsku reaktivnost,

means that there's no inclination for the fission products

znači da nema sklonosti da proizvodi fisije

to leave this reactor.

napuste ovaj reaktor.

So even in the event of an accident,

Čak i u slučaju nesreće,

yeah, the reactor may be toast, which is, you know,

reaktor može biti spržen, što je, znate,

sorry for the power company,

šteta za energetsku kompaniju,

but we're not going to contaminate large quantities of land.

ali nećemo kontaminirati velike količine zemljišta.

So I really think that in the, say,

Zaista mislim da ćemo za recimo

20 years it's going to take us to get fusion

20 godina dobiti fuziju

and make fusion a reality,

i napraviti od nje stvarnost,

this could be the source of energy

ovo bi mogao da bude izvor energije

that provides carbon-free electricity.

koji daje struju bez ugljenika.

Carbon-free electricity.

Struja bez ugljenika.

And it's an amazing technology because

To je neverovatna tehnologija

not only does it combat climate change,

jer se ne samo bori sa promenom klime,

but it's an innovation.

nego je i inovativna.

It's a way to bring power to the developing world,

To je način da se struja dovede u svet u razvoju,

because it's produced in a factory and it's cheap.

jer se proizvodi u fabrikama i jeftina je.

You can put them anywhere in the world you want to.

Možete ih staviti gde god želite u celom svetu.

And maybe something else.

A možda i drugde.

As a kid, I was obsessed with space.

Kao dete, bio sam opsednut svemirom.

Well, I was obsessed with nuclear science too, to a point,

Do neke tačke bio sam opsednut i nuklearnom naukom,

but before that I was obsessed with space,

ali pre toga sam bio opsednut svemirom,

and I was really excited about, you know,

i zaista sam bio uzbuđen u vezi sa tim

being an astronaut and designing rockets,

da budem astronaut i dizajniram rakete,

which was something that was always exciting to me.

što mi je uvek bilo uzbudljivo.

But I think I get to come back to this,

Ali mislim da se vraćam ovome,

because imagine having a compact reactor in a rocket

jer zamislite da imate kompaktan reaktor u raketi

that produces 50 to 100 megawatts.

koji proizvodi 50 do 100 megavata.

That is the rocket designer's dream.

To je san dizajnera raketa.

That's someone who is designing a habitat on another planet's dream.

To je san nekog ko dizajnira život na drugoj planeti.

Not only do you have 50 to 100 megawatts

Ne samo da imate 50 do 100 megavata

to power whatever you want to provide propulsion to get you there,

da snabdete ono š čime želite da vas do tamo dovede,

but you have power once you get there.

nego imate i energiju kada do tamo dođete.

You know, rocket designers who use solar panels

Dizajneri raketa koji koriste solarne ploče

or fuel cells, I mean a few watts or kilowatts --

ili ćelije goriva, nekoliko vata ili kilovata -

wow, that's a lot of power.

vau, to je puno energije.

I mean, now we're talking about 100 megawatts.

Sada pričamo o 100 megavata.

That's a ton of power.

To je hrpa energije.

That could power a Martian community.

To bi moglo da snabdeva zajednicu na Marsu.

That could power a rocket there.

To bi moglo da tamo snabde energijom raketu.

And so I hope that

I nadam se

maybe I'll have an opportunity to kind of explore

da ću možda imati priliku da istražujem

my rocketry passion at the same time that I explore my nuclear passion.

svoju strast za raketarstvom dok istražujem strast za nuklearnom energijom.

And people say, "Oh, well, you've launched this thing,

I ljudi kažu: "Pa lansirao si ovo,

and it's radioactive, into space, and what about accidents?"

i radioaktivno je, u svemiru je, i šta ako se desi nesreća?"

But we launch plutonium batteries all the time.

Ali stalno lansiramo baterije s plutonijumom.

Everybody was really excited about Curiosity,

Svi su bili uzbuđeni zbog Kjuriositija,

and that had this big plutonium battery on board

koji je na sebi imao veliku bateriju s plutonijumom

that has plutonium-238,

koja je imala plutonijum-238,

which actually has a higher specific activity

koji ima veću specifičnu aktivnost

than the low-enriched uranium fuel of these molten salt reactors,

nego gorivo sa osiromašenim uranijumom kod ovih reaktora sa topljenom solju,

which means that the effects would be negligible,

što znači da bi efekti bili zanemarivi,

because you launch it cold,

jer biste ga mogli lansirati na hladno,

and when it gets into space is where you actually activate this reactor.

i aktivirati reaktor kada dođete u svemir.

So I'm really excited.

Zaista sam uzbuđen.

I think that I've designed this reactor here

Mislim da sam ovaj reaktor dizajnirao

that can be an innovative source of energy,

kao inovativan izvor energije,

provide power for all kinds of neat scientific applications,

da pruži energiju za svakakve naučne svrhe,

and I'm really prepared to do this.

i zaista sam spreman da uradim ovo.

I graduated high school in May, and --

Maturirao sam iz srednje škole u maju i -

(Laughter) (Applause) —

(Smeh) (Aplauz) -

I graduated high school in May,

maturirao sam iz srednje škole u maju

and I decided that I was going to start up a company

i odlučio sam da osnujem kompaniju

to commercialize these technologies that I've developed,

kako bih komercijalizovao tehnologije koje sam razvio,

these revolutionary detectors for scanning cargo containers

ove revolucionarne detektore za skeniranje kontejnera sa teretom

and these systems to produce medical isotopes,

i ove sisteme za proizvodnju medicinskih izotopa,

but I want to do this, and I've slowly been building up

ali želim da uradim ovo, i polako gradim

a team of some of the most incredible people

tim sa nekim od najneverovatnijih ljudi

I've ever had the chance to work with,

sa kojima sam imao prilike da radim,

and I'm really prepared to make this a reality.

i zaista sam spreman da ovo sprovedem u delo.

And I think, I think, that looking at the technology,

Mislim da gledajući tehnologiju,

this will be cheaper than or the same price as natural gas,

ovo će biti jeftinije od prirodnog gasa ili iste cene,

and you don't have to refuel it for 30 years,

i ne morate da stavljate novo gorivo 30 godina,

which is an advantage for the developing world.

što je prednost za svet u razvoju.

And I'll just say one more maybe philosophical thing

Reći ću još jednu, možda filozofsku misao

to end with, which is weird for a scientist.

za kraj, što je neobično za naučnika.

But I think there's something really poetic

Ali mislim da ima nešto zaista poetski

about using nuclear power to propel us to the stars,

u korišćenju nuklearne energije da se dopre do zvezda,

because the stars are giant fusion reactors.

jer su zvezde ogromni fuzioni reaktori.

They're giant nuclear cauldrons in the sky.

Oni su ogromni nuklearni kotlovi na nebu.

The energy that I'm able to talk to you today,

Energija uz čiju pomoć danas pričam vama,

while it was converted to chemical energy in my food,

iako je pretvorena iz hrane u hemijsku energiju,

originally came from a nuclear reaction,

zapravo je došla iz nuklearne reakcije,

and so there's something poetic about, in my opinion,

tako da mislim postoji nešto poetski u vezi sa

perfecting nuclear fission

usavršavanjem nuklearne fisije

and using it as a future source of innovative energy.

i njenim korišćenjem kao budućeg izvora inovativne energije.

So thank you guys.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)