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譯者: Marssi Draw
審譯者: Adrienne Lin
00:12
Could I protect my father
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我能保護父親
00:13
from the Armed Islamic Group with a paring knife?
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免受伊斯蘭武裝組織傷害,
就憑一支水果刀嗎?
00:17
That was the question I faced
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這是我曾面對的問題,
00:18
one Tuesday morning in June of 1993,
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那是 1993 年 6 月某個星期二的早晨,
00:21
when I was a law student.
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當時我還是法律系學生。
00:23
I woke up early that morning
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那天早上我起得早,
00:25
in Dad's apartment
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我在父親的公寓裡,
00:26
on the outskirts of Algiers, Algeria,
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在阿爾及利亞的阿爾及爾郊區,
00:28
to an unrelenting pounding on the front door.
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前門不斷傳來重擊聲。
00:31
It was a season as described by a local paper
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地方報形容這個季節
00:34
when every Tuesday a scholar fell
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每週二都會有位學者
00:37
to the bullets of fundamentalist assassins.
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死在基本教義派刺客的子彈下。
00:40
My father's university teaching of Darwin
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我父親在大學教的達爾文課程
00:43
had already provoked a classroom visit
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激怒了一位旁聽者,
00:45
from the head of the so-called
Islamic Salvation Front,
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他來自所謂的伊斯蘭拯救陣線總部,
00:48
who denounced Dad as an advocate of biologism
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譴責我父親是生物中心論的擁護者之後,
00:51
before Dad had ejected the man,
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我父親才將他趕出教室。
00:54
and now whoever was outside
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而現在不管門外站的是誰,
00:55
would neither identify himself nor go away.
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他都不會表明身分,也不會離開。
00:58
So my father tried to get the police on the phone,
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我父親試著打電話叫警察,
01:01
but perhaps terrified by the rising tide
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但也許警察被高漲的情勢嚇到,
01:03
of armed extremism that had already claimed
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因為武裝極端主義已經奪去
01:06
the lives of so many Algerian officers,
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非常多阿爾及利亞警官的性命,
01:08
they didn't even answer.
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沒有人接聽電話。
01:11
And that was when I went to the kitchen,
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那時我去廚房,
01:13
got out a paring knife,
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拿出一支水果刀,
01:14
and took up a position inside the entryway.
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在大門前擺好姿勢。
01:17
It was a ridiculous thing to do, really,
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其實做這件事很蠢,
01:19
but I couldn't think of anything else,
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但我想不到還能做什麼,
01:21
and so there I stood.
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只好就站在那。
01:23
When I look back now, I think
that that was the moment
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現在回過頭看,我想就是那一刻
01:26
that set me on the path was to writing a book
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讓我決定寫一本書,
01:28
called "Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here:
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書名是《你的伊斯蘭教令不適用於此:
01:31
Untold Stories from the Fight
Against Muslim Fundamentalism."
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對抗伊斯蘭教基本教義派
不為人知的故事》。
01:35
The title comes from a Pakistani play.
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標題源自於巴基斯坦戲劇。
01:38
I think it was actually that moment
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我想正是那個時刻
01:41
that sent me on the journey
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讓我展開一段旅程,
01:43
to interview 300 people of Muslim heritage
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訪問三百位穆斯林出身的人,
01:45
from nearly 30 countries,
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他們來自三十個國家,
01:47
from Afghanistan to Mali,
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從阿富汗到馬利,
01:49
to find out how they fought fundamentalism
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我找出他們如何
和平對抗基本教義派,
01:52
peacefully like my father did,
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就跟我父親一樣,
01:54
and how they coped with the attendant risks.
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以及他們如何設法解決
伴隨而來的風險。
01:58
Luckily, back in June of 1993,
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幸運的是,1993 年 6 月
02:00
our unidentified visitor went away,
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那位未表明身分的訪客離開了,
02:03
but other families were so much less lucky,
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但其他家庭可沒那麼幸運,
02:06
and that was the thought
that motivated my research.
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就是這個想法驅使我做研究。
02:10
In any case, someone would return
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無論是哪種情況,
幾個月後都會有人回來,
02:11
a few months later and leave a note
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在我父親的餐桌上留張紙條,
02:13
on Dad's kitchen table,
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02:14
which simply said, "Consider yourself dead."
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上面寫著:「準備幫自己辦後事。」
02:18
Subsequently, Algeria's
fundamentalist armed groups
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隨後,阿爾及利亞的
基本教義派武裝團體
02:21
would murder as many as 200,000 civilians
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謀殺二十萬名老百姓,
02:24
in what came to be known
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這是後來我們所知
02:26
as the dark decade of the 1990s,
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1990 年代的黑暗十年,
02:29
including every single one
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亡者包括你在這裡可以
看到的每一位女性。
02:31
of the women that you see here.
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02:34
In its harsh counterterrorist response,
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而在嚴酷的反恐對策中,
02:37
the state resorted to torture
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政府訴諸酷刑與強迫失蹤,
02:39
and to forced disappearances,
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02:40
and as terrible as all of these events became,
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和這些事件一樣恐怖的是
02:44
the international community largely ignored them.
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國際間大多忽視他們。
02:47
Finally, my father, an Algerian
peasant's son turned professor,
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最後,我的父親,
身為教授的阿爾及利亞農民之子,
02:51
was forced to stop teaching at the university
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被迫停止在大學教書,
02:53
and to flee his apartment,
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並要他的從公寓消失,
02:55
but what I will never forget
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但我永遠忘不了的是
02:57
about Mahfoud Bennoune, my dad,
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馬福.班努尼,我的父親,
02:59
was that like so many other Algerian intellectuals,
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就像許多阿爾及利亞的知識分子一樣
03:02
he refused to leave the country
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拒絕離開祖國,
03:03
and he continued to publish pointed criticisms,
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而且他持續發表尖銳評論,
03:06
both of the fundamentalists
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他們與基本教義派作戰,
03:08
and sometimes of the government they battled.
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也不時與政府作戰。
03:11
For example, in a November 1994 series
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例如《國家報》1994 年 11 月的系列報導
03:15
in the newspaper El Watan
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03:17
entitled "How Fundamentalism
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題為<基本教義派如何
無先例地製造出恐怖主義>
03:18
Produced a Terrorism without Precedent,"
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03:22
he denounced what he called
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他譴責所謂的
03:23
the terrorists' radical break with the true Islam
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恐怖主義激進分子破壞了
03:26
as it was lived by our ancestors.
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長久以來先民遵循的伊斯蘭真理。
03:29
These were words that could get you killed.
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這些字眼可能會讓你喪命。
03:32
My father's country taught me
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我父親的祖國教我,
03:33
in that dark decade of the 1990s that
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在那黑暗的 90 年代,
03:36
the popular struggle against Muslim fundamentalism
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扺抗穆斯林基本教義派的浪潮
03:39
is one of the most important
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是世界上最重要
03:41
and overlooked human rights struggles
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且被忽視的人權抗爭之一,
03:44
in the world.
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03:45
This remains true today, nearly 20 years later.
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即使將近二十年後的今日仍是如此。
03:49
You see, in every country
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你看,不管在哪個國家
03:51
where you hear about armed jihadis
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你都會聽到武裝聖戰者
03:52
targeting civilians,
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針對平民百姓,
03:54
there are also unarmed people
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也有很多手無寸鐵的人民
03:56
defying those militants that you don't hear about,
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公然反抗那些激進分子,只是你沒聽過,
03:59
and those people need our support to succeed.
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那些人需要我們的支持才能成功。
04:03
In the West, it's often assumed
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西方國家通常都認為
04:05
that Muslims generally condone terrorism.
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穆斯林普遍都會容忍恐怖行動。
04:08
Some on the right think this because they view
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有些右翼者這樣想是因為他們認為
04:10
Muslim culture as inherently violent,
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伊斯蘭教文化與生俱來就很暴力,
04:12
and some on the left imagine this
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有些左翼者這樣想是因為
04:14
because they view Muslim violence,
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他們認為穆斯林暴力、
04:16
fundamentalist violence,
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基本教義派的暴力,
04:17
solely as a product of legitimate grievances.
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完全是合理的怨憤產物。
04:21
But both views are dead wrong.
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但這兩種觀點都大錯特錯。
04:23
In fact, many people of Muslim heritage
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事實上許多生來就是伊斯蘭教徒的人
04:25
around the world are staunch opponents
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在世界各地都堅決反對
04:28
both of fundamentalism and of terrorism,
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基本主義和恐怖主義,
04:31
and often for very good reason.
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而且通常都有很好的理由。
04:34
You see, they're much more likely to be victims
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你看,他們更像是暴力受害者,
04:36
of this violence than its perpetrators.
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而非加害者。
04:39
Let me just give you one example.
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我舉個例子。
04:41
According to a 2009 survey
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根據一份 2009 年
04:44
of Arabic language media resources,
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阿拉伯語的媒體調查,
04:46
between 2004 and 2008,
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在 2004 年到 2008 年間,
04:49
no more than 15 percent of al Qaeda's victims
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蓋達組織的受害者中,不到 15%
04:52
were Westerners.
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是歐美人。
04:54
That's a terrible toll, but the vast majority
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那是很恐怖的死亡人數,
但大多數人生下來就是穆斯林,
04:57
were people of Muslim heritage,
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04:59
killed by Muslim fundamentalists.
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卻被穆斯林基本主義者所殺害。
05:01
Now I've been talking for the last five minutes
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我已經談了五分鐘基本教義派,
05:04
about fundamentalism, and you have a right to know
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而你們有權知道
05:07
exactly what I mean.
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我真正要傳達的意思。
05:08
I cite the definition given by the Algerian sociologist
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我引用的定義出自
阿爾及利亞社會學家
瑪麗梅.艾利.魯卡斯,
05:12
Marieme Helie Lucas,
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05:14
and she says that fundamentalisms,
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她說眾多的基本教義派,
05:17
note the "s," so within all of the world's
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注意「眾多」,
在全世界的重要宗教傳統中,
05:19
great religious traditions,
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05:21
"fundamentalisms are political
movements of the extreme right
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「眾多的基本教義派
都是極右派的政治運動,
05:25
which in a context of globalization
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在全球化的背景下
05:27
manipulate religion in order to achieve
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操控宗教,
來達成他們的政治目的。」
05:30
their political aims."
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05:31
Sadia Abbas has called this the radical politicization
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薩迪亞.阿巴斯稱此為
宗教理論的極端政治化。
05:35
of theology.
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05:37
Now I want to avoid projecting the notion
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我想儘量避免投射出某種想法,
05:39
that there's sort of a monolith out there
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那就是有種龐大的組織
05:41
called Muslim fundamentalism
that is the same everywhere,
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稱為穆斯林基本教義派,在各地都一樣,
05:44
because these movements
also have their diversities.
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因為這些運動也各有不同。
05:47
Some use and advocate violence.
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有一些使用與提倡暴力,
05:49
Some do not, though they're often interrelated.
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有些則不然,雖然他們常相互影響。
05:52
They take different forms.
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他們都有不同的形式。
05:53
Some may be non-governmental organizations,
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有些也許是非政府組織,
05:56
even here in Britain like Cageprisoners.
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即使在英國這裡,
像是伊斯蘭教囚犯組織。
05:59
Some may become political parties,
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有些則成為政黨,
06:01
like the Muslim Brotherhood,
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像是穆斯林兄弟會,
06:02
and some may be openly armed groups
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有些可能是公開的武裝團體,
06:04
like the Taliban.
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像是塔利班。
06:06
But in any case, these are all radical projects.
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但不論是哪一種,這些都是激進的化身。
06:09
They're not conservative or traditional approaches.
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那不是保守或傳統的手段,
06:12
They're most often about changing
people's relationship with Islam
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也往往改變大眾與伊斯蘭教的關係,
06:15
rather than preserving it.
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而非保護這段關係。
06:17
What I am talking about is the Muslim extreme right,
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我指的是穆斯林的極右派,
06:20
and the fact that its adherents are
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以及它的追隨者
06:22
or purport to be Muslim
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自稱是穆斯林的這個事實,
06:24
makes them no less offensive
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不會讓他們的攻擊性
06:26
than the extreme right anywhere else.
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少於任何地方的極右派人士。
06:28
So in my view, if we consider ourselves
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因此在我看來,如果我們自認為
06:30
liberal or left-wing,
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自由主義者或左派人士,
06:32
human rights-loving or feminist,
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愛好人權者或女性主義者,
06:34
we must oppose these movements
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我們都必須反對這些運動,
06:36
and support their grassroots opponents.
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並支持反抗他們的平民百姓。
06:39
Now let me be clear
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我先聲明,
06:41
that I support an effective struggle
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我支持實際的抗爭
06:43
against fundamentalism,
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來抵抗基本教義派,
06:45
but also a struggle that must itself
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但抗爭也一定要
06:47
respect international law,
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尊重國際法,
06:49
so nothing I am saying should be taken
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因此我所說的一切都不應該被視為
06:51
as a justification for refusals
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拒絕民主化的辯解,
06:53
to democratize,
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06:55
and here I send out a shout-out of support
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在此,我要公開聲援
06:57
to the pro-democracy movement
in Algeria today, Barakat.
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今天在阿爾及利亞
巴拉卡的親民主運動。
07:02
Nor should anything I say be taken
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我所說的一切也不該被視為
07:04
as a justification of violations of human rights,
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侵犯人權的辯解,
07:07
like the mass death sentences
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像是本週前幾天
在埃及的大批死刑宣判。
07:08
handed out in Egypt earlier this week.
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07:11
But what I am saying
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我想表達的是
07:12
is that we must challenge these
Muslim fundamentalist movements
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我們必須挑戰這些
穆斯林基本教義派的運動,
07:16
because they threaten human rights
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因為他們危害人權,
07:18
across Muslim-majority contexts,
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充斥在以穆斯林為主的社會中,
07:20
and they do this in a range of ways,
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他們運用各種方式,
07:23
most obviously with the direct attacks on civilians
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直接攻擊平民百姓,
最顯見的就是
07:26
by the armed groups that carry those out.
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透過武裝團體執行各種任務。
07:28
But that violence is just the tip of the iceberg.
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但那樣的暴力只是冰山一角。
07:31
These movements as a whole purvey discrimination
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這些運動普遍都宣揚
歧視宗教弱勢與性別弱勢。
07:34
against religious minorities and sexual minorities.
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07:37
They seek to curtail the freedom of religion
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他們企圖削減大家的宗教自由,
07:39
of everyone who either practices in a different way
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針對那些用不同方式實踐
07:42
or chooses not to practice.
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或是選擇不去實踐的人。
07:44
And most definingly, they lead an all-out war
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最明確的是,
他們引領對女權的全面戰爭。
07:47
on the rights of women.
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2081
07:49
Now, faced with these movements
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面對近年來的這些運動,
07:51
in recent years, Western discourse
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西方論述最常提出
07:53
has most often offered
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07:54
two flawed responses.
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兩種錯誤的反應。
07:57
The first that one sometimes finds on the right
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第一種,時常出自右翼人士,
07:59
suggests that most Muslims are fundamentalist
192
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2542
他們會說大多數的穆斯林
都是基本主義者,
08:02
or something about Islam is
inherently fundamentalist,
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3346
或和伊斯蘭教有關的事
骨子裡都是基本教義派,
08:05
and this is just offensive and wrong,
194
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3291
這很冒犯,也不正確,
08:08
but unfortunately on the left
one sometimes encounters
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2408
但不幸的是,從左翼者那邊也常碰到
08:11
a discourse that is too politically correct
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2182
一種過於政治正確的說法,
08:13
to acknowledge the problem of
Muslim fundamentalism at all
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3802
以致於完全無法承認
穆斯林基本教義的問題,
08:17
or, even worse, apologizes for it,
198
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2361
更糟的是,無法為問題致歉,
08:19
and this is unacceptable as well.
199
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這也讓人無法接受。
08:22
So what I'm seeking is a new way
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因此我想找的是一種新的方式,
08:24
of talking about this all together,
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能夠一併討論所有問題,
08:26
which is grounded in the lived experiences
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並且是根植在生活經驗中,
08:29
and the hope of the people on the front lines.
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以及前線人們的希望之中。
08:32
I'm painfully aware that there has been
204
512059
1951
我很痛苦地意識到
近年來對穆斯林的歧視與日俱增,
08:34
an increase in discrimination
against Muslims in recent years
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3181
08:37
in countries like the U.K. and the U.S.,
206
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像是在英國、美國,
08:39
and that too is a matter of grave concern,
207
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3054
這也是極度令人憂心的問題,
08:42
but I firmly believe
208
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1139
但我堅信
08:43
that telling these counter-stereotypical stories
209
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訴說這些不同於刻板印象、
08:46
of people of Muslim heritage
210
526816
1326
關於穆斯林的故事,
08:48
who have confronted the fundamentalists
211
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2172
他們對抗基本主義者,
08:50
and been their primary victims
212
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2015
且成為首當其衝的受害者,
08:52
is also a great way of countering that discrimination.
213
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4577
述說他們的故事
也是種反抗歧視的好方式。
08:56
So now let me introduce you
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因此,現在讓我為各位介紹四個人,
08:58
to four people whose stories
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1656
我很榮幸能與各位分享他們的故事。
09:00
I had the great honor of telling.
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3216
09:03
Faizan Peerzada and the Rafi Peer Theatre
217
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2233
法山.皮扎達與以他父親為名的
拉菲皮爾劇院工作坊,
09:05
workshop named for his father
218
545791
2002
09:07
have for years promoted the performing arts
219
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2138
已多年在巴基斯坦推廣表演藝術。
09:09
in Pakistan.
220
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09:11
With the rise of jihadist violence,
221
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隨著聖戰暴力的崛起,
09:13
they began to receive threats
222
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1576
他們開始被威脅終止活動,
09:14
to call off their events, which they refused to heed.
223
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3250
但他們拒絕服從。
09:17
And so a bomber struck their 2008
224
557950
3270
因此,一枚炸彈攻擊了
2008 年舉行的第八屆
世界拉合爾表演藝術嘉年華,
09:21
eighth world performing arts festival in Lahore,
225
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2884
09:24
producing rain of glass
226
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如雨落下的玻璃碎片
09:25
that fell into the venue
227
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在事發現場
09:27
injuring nine people,
228
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造成九個人受傷,
09:29
and later that same night,
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隨後在同一天晚上,
09:30
the Peerzadas made a very difficult decision:
230
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皮扎達做了一個非常艱難的決定,
09:33
they announced that their festival
231
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他們宣布嘉年華
09:35
would continue as planned the next day.
232
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隔天如期舉行。
09:38
As Faizan said at the time,
233
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1451
如同法山當時所說,
09:40
if we bow down to the Islamists,
234
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1942
如果我們對伊斯蘭教徒低頭,
09:42
we'll just be sitting in a dark corner.
235
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3111
未來就只能坐在陰暗的角落。
09:45
But they didn't know what would happen.
236
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但是他們不知道會發生什麼事,
09:47
Would anyone come?
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會有人來嗎?
09:49
In fact, thousands of people came out the next day
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事實上,隔天有成千上萬人前來拉合爾
09:52
to support the performing arts in Lahore,
239
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2402
支持這場表演藝術,
09:54
and this simultaneously thrilled
240
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1845
這也讓法山感到激動又害怕,
09:56
and terrified Faizan,
241
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1822
09:58
and he ran up to a woman
242
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1453
他跑到一名帶著兩個孩子
來參加的女士面前,
09:59
who had come in with her two small children,
243
599997
2217
10:02
and he said, "You do know there
was a bomb here yesterday,
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3194
他說:「你知道昨天這裡有炸彈攻擊吧?
10:05
and you do know there's a threat here today."
245
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你知道今天這裡有恐怖威脅吧?」
10:07
And she said, "I know that,
246
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1883
她說:「我知道,
10:09
but I came to your festival
247
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1564
但我和母親一起
參加過你辦的嘉年華,
10:11
with my mother when I was their age,
248
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2430
那時候我和他們一樣小,
10:13
and I still have those images in my mind.
249
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3048
那些影像至今還印在我心上,
10:16
We have to be here."
250
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2138
我們一定要參加。」
10:18
With stalwart audiences like this,
251
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1857
有像她這樣勇敢的觀眾,
10:20
the Peerzadas were able to conclude
252
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1654
讓皮扎達最終能
如期完成他們的嘉年華。
10:22
their festival on schedule.
253
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2460
10:24
And then the next year,
254
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1237
隔年,
10:26
they lost all of their sponsors
255
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1883
他們失去了所有的贊助商,
10:27
due to the security risk.
256
627889
2369
原因是安全考量。
10:30
So when I met them in 2010,
257
630258
2300
後來我在 2010 年和他們碰面,
10:32
they were in the middle of the first subsequent event
258
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2286
他們正在籌辦下一次的活動,
10:34
that they were able to have in the same venue,
259
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3066
在同一個地方舉辦,
10:37
and this was the ninth youth performing arts festival
260
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3264
也就是第九屆的青年表演藝術嘉年華,
10:41
held in Lahore in a year when that city
261
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2975
在拉合爾舉行,
那年當地已歷經了 44 次的恐怖攻擊。
10:44
had already experienced 44 terror attacks.
262
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4070
10:48
This was a time when the Pakistani Taliban
263
648219
2103
那個時候正是巴基斯坦的塔利班
10:50
had commenced their systematic targeting
264
650322
1817
開始有系統地以女子學校為目標,
10:52
of girls' schools that would culminate
265
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2208
最後引發對馬拉拉的攻擊事件。
10:54
in the attack on Malala Yousafzai.
266
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2759
10:57
What did the Peerzadas do in that environment?
267
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4395
皮扎達在那種環境下做了什麼?
11:01
They staged girls' school theater.
268
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3173
他們安排了女子校園劇院。
11:04
So I had the privilege of watching "Naang Wal,"
269
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2812
我有幸觀賞《結》,
11:07
which was a musical in the Punjabi language,
270
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2632
那是用旁遮普語表演的歌舞劇,
11:10
and the girls of Lahore Grammar School
271
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1762
拉合爾文理學校的女學生
11:11
played all the parts.
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1726
扮演所有的角色。
11:13
They sang and danced,
273
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1234
他們唱歌、跳舞,
11:14
they played the mice and the water buffalo,
274
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2658
扮演老鼠和水牛,
11:17
and I held my breath, wondering,
275
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2464
我屏息凝氣,
11:19
would we get to the end
276
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心想我們能不能看到
這場表演的最後一刻?
11:21
of this amazing show?
277
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2286
11:23
And when we did, the whole audience
278
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2556
結束時,
全場觀眾都鬆了一口氣,
11:26
collectively exhaled,
279
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1738
11:27
and a few people actually wept,
280
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2264
有些人甚至流下眼淚,
11:30
and then they filled the auditorium
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2523
後來,禮堂裡充滿大家的溫馨掌聲。
11:32
with the peaceful boom of their applause.
282
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2839
11:35
And I remember thinking in that moment
283
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2987
在那當下我心想
11:38
that the bombers made headlines here
284
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2431
炸彈客上了新聞頭條
11:40
two years before
285
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1663
不過是兩年前的事,
11:42
but this night and these people
286
702516
2364
但是今晚和這些人
11:44
are as important a story.
287
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3291
也同是一樣重要的故事。
11:50
Maria Bashir is the first and only
288
710488
2480
瑪麗亞.巴希爾
是阿富汗首位,
也是目前唯一的女性總檢察長。
11:52
woman chief prosecutor in Afghanistan.
289
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3124
11:56
She's been in the post since 2008
290
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2214
她從 2008 年起任職,
11:58
and actually opened an office to investigate
291
718306
2186
並設立部門
調查針對女性的暴力案件,
12:00
cases of violence against women,
292
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1826
12:02
which she says is the most important area
293
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2258
她說那是她的任務中
最重要的一環。
12:04
in her mandate.
294
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1734
12:06
When I meet her in her office in Herat,
295
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3065
我和她在她的赫拉特辦公室碰面,
12:09
she enters surrounded by
296
729375
1745
她進入時
被四位手持大型槍枝的
彪形大漢圍繞。
12:11
four large men with four huge guns.
297
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3366
12:14
In fact, she now has 23 bodyguards,
298
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2964
其實現在她有 23 位保鑣,
12:17
because she has weathered bomb attacks
299
737450
1420
因為她才剛經歷炸彈攻擊,
12:18
that nearly killed her kids,
300
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1678
她的孩子差點被炸死,
12:20
and it took the leg off of one of her guards.
301
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3351
其中一位保鑣還失去一條腿。
12:23
Why does she continue?
302
743899
2110
為什麼她還要繼續下去?
12:26
She says with a smile that that is the question
303
746009
2654
她面帶微笑,
說每個人都問她這個問題,
12:28
that everyone asks—
304
748663
2047
12:30
as she puts it, "Why you risk not living?"
305
750710
3825
她是這樣描述的:
「為什麼你要冒這種生命危險?」
12:34
And it is simply that for her,
306
754535
1639
對她來說這答案簡單明瞭,
12:36
a better future for all the Maria Bashirs to come
307
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3469
能替所有女性創造更美好的未來
12:39
is worth the risk,
308
759643
1484
值得冒險,
12:41
and she knows that if people like her
309
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1710
她知道如果像她這樣的人
12:42
do not take the risk,
310
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1915
不去冒險,
12:44
there will be no better future.
311
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2297
就不會有更好的未來。
12:47
Later on in our interview,
312
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1727
之後在我們的訪談中,
12:48
Prosecutor Bashir tells me how worried she is
313
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2363
檢察長巴希爾告訴我她有多擔心
12:51
about the possible outcome
314
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1519
政府和塔利班協商的可能結果,
12:52
of government negotiations with the Taliban,
315
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2499
12:55
the people who have been trying to kill her.
316
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2394
那些是曾試圖殺了她的人。
12:57
"If we give them a place in the government,"
317
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1752
她問:「如果讓他們擔任公職,
12:59
she asks, "Who will protect women's rights?"
318
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3217
誰來保護婦女的權利?」
13:02
And she urges the international community
319
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2366
她鼓吹國際組織
13:04
not to forget its promise about women
320
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2632
不要忘了對女性的承諾,
13:07
because now they want peace with Taliban.
321
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3827
只因為他們現在希望與塔利班和平共處。
13:11
A few weeks after I leave Afghanistan,
322
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2205
我離開阿富汗幾週後,
13:13
I see a headline on the Internet.
323
793550
2875
看到一則網路頭條。
13:16
An Afghan prosecutor has been assassinated.
324
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3605
阿富汗檢察官遇刺。
13:20
I google desperately,
325
800030
2136
我絕望地上網搜尋,
13:22
and thankfully that day I find out
326
802166
1674
謝天謝地,
13:23
that Maria was not the victim,
327
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2086
瑪麗亞不是受害者,
13:25
though sadly, another Afghan prosecutor
328
805926
2223
但讓人難過的是,另一位阿富汗檢察官
13:28
was gunned down on his way to work.
329
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2031
在回家的路上被槍殺。
13:30
And when I hear headlines like that now,
330
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2995
現在只要我聽到像那樣的頭條,
13:33
I think that as international troops
331
813175
2298
我都會想,
在國際軍隊今年撤離阿富汗之後,
13:35
leave Afghanistan this year and beyond,
332
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3048
13:38
we must continue to care
333
818521
1906
我們仍須持續關心
13:40
about what happens to people there,
334
820427
1433
那裡的人發生什麼事,
13:41
to all of the Maria Bashirs.
335
821860
3026
以及像瑪麗亞那樣的女性發生什麼事。
13:44
Sometimes I still hear her voice in my head
336
824886
2613
有時候我仍聽見她的聲音
在我的腦海裡縈繞,
13:47
saying, with no bravado whatsoever,
337
827499
3081
她一點也不逞強地說:
13:50
"The situation of the women of Afghanistan
338
830580
2605
「阿富汗婦女的處境
13:53
will be better someday.
339
833185
1906
總有一天會更好。
13:55
We should prepare the ground for this,
340
835091
2235
我們應該為此打穩基礎,
13:57
even if we are killed."
341
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2943
即使我們會因此喪命。」
14:01
There are no words adequate
342
841854
1648
沒有任何言語足以譴責
14:03
to denounce the al Shabaab terrorists
343
843502
1976
索馬利亞青年黨的恐怖分子,
14:05
who attacked the Westgate Mall in Nairobi
344
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2262
他們曾攻擊奈洛比的西門百貨,
14:07
on the same day as a children's cooking competition
345
847740
3462
兒童廚藝大賽
就在 2013 年 9 月的同一天舉行。
14:11
in September of 2013.
346
851202
2418
14:13
They killed 67, including poets and pregnant women.
347
853620
4499
他們殺了 67 人,包括詩人和孕婦。
14:18
Far away in the American Midwest,
348
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2099
我在遙遠的美國中西部
14:20
I had the good fortune of meeting Somali-Americans
349
860218
2347
很好運碰到索馬利亞裔的美國人,
14:22
who were working to counter
the efforts of al Shabaab
350
862565
2848
他們致力於反抗索馬利亞青年黨,
14:25
to recruit a small number of young people
351
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2224
避免他們召募故鄉
明尼亞波利斯的年輕人
14:27
from their city of Minneapolis
352
867637
1944
14:29
to take part in atrocities like Westgate.
353
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3698
參與像西門百貨那樣的暴行。
14:33
Abdirizak Bihi's studious
354
873279
1960
阿迪里扎.畢希
有一位勤學的 17 歲姪子伯罕.哈桑
14:35
17-year-old nephew Burhan Hassan
355
875239
2889
14:38
was recruited here in 2008,
356
878128
2648
2008 年時在這裡被召募,
14:40
spirited to Somalia,
357
880776
1760
帶到索馬利亞,
14:42
and then killed when he tried to come home.
358
882536
3370
後來在試圖回家時被殺身亡。
14:45
Since that time, Mr. Bihi,
359
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1594
自那時起,
無預算管理索馬利亞
教育與提倡組織的畢希先生
14:47
who directs the no-budget Somali
Education and Advocacy Center,
360
887500
4253
14:51
has been vocally denouncing the recruitment
361
891753
2451
一直大聲譴責這種召募行動
14:54
and the failures of government
362
894204
1856
和失敗的政府,
14:56
and Somali-American institutions
363
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2219
以及索馬利裔美國人的機構,
14:58
like the Abubakar As-Saddique Islamic Center
364
898279
3025
像是阿布巴卡.阿斯-沙迪克
伊斯蘭教中心,
15:01
where he believes his nephew was radicalized
365
901304
2231
他相信姪子就是在這個組織的
15:03
during a youth program.
366
903535
2106
青年課程中被慫恿。
15:05
But he doesn't just criticize the mosque.
367
905641
2153
但他不只是批判清真寺,
15:07
He also takes on the government
368
907794
1579
他也批判政府
15:09
for its failure to do more
369
909373
1785
未能努力
15:11
to prevent poverty in his community.
370
911158
2498
減少他們社群的貧窮。
15:13
Given his own lack of financial resources,
371
913656
2289
考慮到拮据的經濟資源,
15:15
Mr. Bihi has had to be creative.
372
915945
2311
畢許先生必須更有創意。
15:18
To counter the efforts of al Shabaab
373
918256
1894
要抵抗索馬利亞青年黨
15:20
to sway more disaffected youth,
374
920150
2385
不讓他們動搖更多不滿的青年,
15:22
in the wake of the group's 2010 attack
375
922535
2435
在 2010 年青年黨攻擊
15:24
on World Cup viewers in Uganda,
376
924970
2594
烏干達世界盃的觀眾之後,
15:27
he organized a Ramadan basketball tournament
377
927564
3340
他策畫齋戒月籃球比賽,
15:30
in Minneapolis in response.
378
930904
2532
在明尼亞波利斯舉行
以回應該起攻擊。
15:33
Scores of Somali-American kids came out
379
933436
2684
許多索馬利亞裔的美國孩童出來
15:36
to embrace sport
380
936120
1388
投入運動懷抱,
15:37
despite the fatwa against it.
381
937508
2492
無視伊斯蘭領袖的命令。
15:40
They played basketball
382
940000
1745
他們打籃球,
15:41
as Burhan Hassan never would again.
383
941745
3867
但伯罕.哈桑卻無法再次打球。
15:45
For his efforts, Mr. Bihi has been ostracized
384
945612
2650
畢希先生的努力
讓他因此被阿布巴卡.阿斯-沙迪克
伊斯蘭教中心的高層排擠,
15:48
by the leadership of the Abubakar
As-Saddique Islamic Center,
385
948262
3072
15:51
with which he used to have good relations.
386
951334
2565
失去原來的友好關係。
15:53
He told me, "One day we saw the imam on TV
387
953899
2386
他告訴我:「有天我看到
伊斯蘭教領袖在電視上,
15:56
calling us infidels and saying,
388
956285
2058
稱我們離經叛道,
還說『這些家人都試圖破壞清真寺。』」
15:58
'These families are trying to destroy the mosque.'"
389
958343
3569
16:01
This is at complete odds
390
961912
1411
這完全違背了
16:03
with how Abdirizak Bihi understands
391
963323
2533
阿迪里扎.畢希的理念,
16:05
what he is trying to do
392
965856
1800
他不斷嘗試努力
16:07
by exposing al Shabaab recruitment,
393
967656
2406
揭發索馬利亞青年黨的召募行動,
16:10
which is to save the religion I love
394
970062
2422
就為了拯救我所熱愛的宗教
16:12
from a small number of extremists.
395
972484
3126
免受少數極端分子控制。
16:16
Now I want to tell one last story,
396
976938
2561
我想說的最後一個故事是,
16:19
that of a 22-year-old law student in Algeria
397
979499
3014
有一位在阿爾及利亞的 22 歲法律系學生
16:22
named Amel Zenoune-Zouani
398
982513
1946
名叫阿梅爾.任努-佐尼,
16:24
who had the same dreams of a legal career
399
984459
1879
她也夢想從事法律相關職業,
16:26
that I did back in the '90s.
400
986338
2702
和我在 90 年代時一樣。
16:29
She refused to give up her studies,
401
989040
1929
她拒絕放棄學業,
16:30
despite the fact that the fundamentalists
402
990969
1969
無視基本主義者
16:32
battling the Algerian state back then
403
992938
2530
在和阿爾及利亞政府交戰之後
16:35
threatened all who continued their education.
404
995468
3622
威脅所有繼續上學的人。
16:39
On January 26, 1997, Amel boarded the bus
405
999090
4110
1997 年 1 月 26 日,
她在阿爾及爾搭上公車,
16:43
in Algiers where she was studying
406
1003200
1922
準備從學校回家,
16:45
to go home and spend a Ramadan evening
407
1005122
2183
和家人共渡齋戒月的夜晚,
16:47
with her family,
408
1007305
1689
16:48
and would never finish law school.
409
1008994
2386
卻永遠無法唸完法學院了。
16:51
When the bus reached the outskirts
410
1011380
1460
巴士開到她家鄉的郊區外時,
16:52
of her hometown, it was stopped
411
1012840
1775
在檢查站被攔了下來,
16:54
at a checkpoint manned by men
412
1014615
2142
站崗的是伊斯蘭武裝組織的男子。
16:56
from the Armed Islamic Group.
413
1016757
2294
16:59
Carrying her schoolbag,
414
1019051
1729
阿梅爾拿著書包
17:00
Amel was taken off the bus
415
1020780
1986
被帶下公車,
17:02
and killed in the street.
416
1022766
2589
在街上被殺死。
17:05
The men who cut her throat
417
1025355
1136
男人切斷她的喉嚨,
17:06
then told everyone else,
418
1026491
1850
之後告訴每個人:
17:08
"If you go to university,
419
1028341
1894
「如果你去唸大學,
17:10
the day will come when we will kill all of you
420
1030235
2554
總有一天我們會回來殺了你,
17:12
just like this."
421
1032789
3231
就像這樣。」
17:16
Amel died at exactly 5:17 p.m.,
422
1036020
2700
阿梅爾在下午五點十七分過世,
17:18
which we know because when she fell in the street,
423
1038720
2848
我們會知道是因為,她倒在街上時
17:21
her watch broke.
424
1041568
1777
手錶摔破了。
17:23
Her mother showed me the watch
425
1043345
1229
她媽媽給我們看手錶,
17:24
with the second hand still aimed
426
1044574
2001
上頭的秒針仍樂觀地邁向
17:26
optimistically upward
427
1046575
1496
17:28
towards a 5:18 that would never come.
428
1048071
3436
永遠不會到來的五點十八分。
17:31
Shortly before her death,
429
1051507
1149
阿梅爾死前
17:32
Amel had said to her mother of herself
430
1052656
1855
曾告訴母親和姊妹:
17:34
and her sisters,
431
1054511
1887
17:36
"Nothing will happen to us, Inshallah, God willing,
432
1056398
3617
「一切都會平安無事,這是阿拉的旨意,
17:40
but if something happens,
433
1060015
1870
但如果發生了什麼事,
17:41
you must know that we are dead for knowledge.
434
1061885
2883
你們要知道,我們是為了知識而死。
17:44
You and father must keep your heads held high."
435
1064768
4210
你和父親一定要昂首挺立。」
17:48
The loss of such a young woman is unfathomable,
436
1068978
3982
如此年輕的少女生命殞落
讓人無法理解,
17:52
and so as I did my research
437
1072960
1555
因此當我做研究時,
17:54
I found myself searching for Amel's hope again
438
1074515
3254
發現自己再次尋找阿梅爾的希望,
17:57
and her name even means "hope" in Arabic.
439
1077769
2937
而她的名字甚至是
阿拉伯語中的「希望」。
18:00
I think I found it in two places.
440
1080706
3251
我想,我在兩個地方找到了希望。
18:03
The first is in the strength of her family
441
1083957
2295
第一處是在她堅強的家人
與其他人身上,
18:06
and all the other families to
continue telling their stories
442
1086252
3266
他們繼續訴說自己的故事,
18:09
and to go on with their lives despite the terrorism.
443
1089518
3065
繼續生活,無視於恐怖主義。
18:12
In fact, Amel's sister Lamia overcame her grief,
444
1092583
3282
其實阿梅爾的妹妹拉米亞已經走出傷痛,
18:15
went to law school,
445
1095865
1371
在法學院就讀,
18:17
and practices as a lawyer in Algiers today,
446
1097236
2754
也在阿爾及爾當律師,
18:19
something which is only possible
447
1099990
1601
這種事之所以能發生,
18:21
because the armed fundamentalists
448
1101591
1189
是因為武裝基本主義者
18:22
were largely defeated in the country.
449
1102780
2878
在國內的勢力被大幅消滅。
18:25
And the second place I found Amel's hope
450
1105658
2847
第二個我發現阿梅爾希望之處,
18:28
was everywhere that women and men
451
1108505
2472
是各個地方不分男女
18:30
continue to defy the jihadis.
452
1110977
2695
都持續反抗聖戰。
18:33
We must support all of those in honor of Amel
453
1113672
3258
為了向阿梅爾致敬,
我們必須全面支持那些
18:36
who continue this human rights struggle today,
454
1116930
2633
至今仍繼續為人權而奮戰的團體,
18:39
like the Network of Women
Living Under Muslim Laws.
455
1119563
3997
像是「穆斯林律法下的女性組織」。
18:43
It is not enough, as the victims rights advocate
456
1123560
2627
這還不夠,就像受害者權利倡導者
18:46
Cherifa Kheddar told me in Algiers,
457
1126187
1887
查理法.凱達在阿爾及爾告訴我的,
18:48
it is not enough just to battle terrorism.
458
1128074
3065
只是對抗恐怖主義是不夠的。
18:51
We must also challenge fundamentalism,
459
1131139
2544
我們也要挑戰基本教義派,
18:53
because fundamentalism is the ideology
460
1133683
2437
因為基本主義是
創造出恐怖主義基礎的意識型態。
18:56
that makes the bed of this terrorism.
461
1136120
2591
18:58
Why is it that people like her, like all of them
462
1138711
3439
為什麼像她這樣的人、像他們的人
19:02
are not more well known?
463
1142150
1694
沒有更加廣為人知?
19:03
Why is it that everyone knows
who Osama bin Laden was
464
1143844
3277
為什麼每個人都認識賓拉登,
19:07
and so few know of all of those
465
1147121
1933
卻少有人認識那些
19:09
standing up to the bin Ladens in their own contexts.
466
1149054
3693
用各種方式起身反抗賓拉登的人們。
19:12
We must change that, and so I ask you
467
1152747
2657
我們一定要改變,
因此我請各位幫忙分享這些故事,
19:15
to please help share these stories
468
1155404
1768
19:17
through your networks.
469
1157172
1773
運用你們的網絡。
19:18
Look again at Amel Zenoune's watch,
470
1158945
2099
再看一眼阿梅爾.任努-佐尼的手錶,
19:21
forever frozen,
471
1161044
1660
永遠凍結了,
19:22
and now please look at your own watch
472
1162704
2362
現在請看著你自己的手錶,
19:25
and decide this is the moment that you commit
473
1165066
3024
決定這一刻就是你承諾
19:28
to supporting people like Amel.
474
1168090
1908
支持像阿梅爾這樣的人。
19:29
We don't have the right to be silent about them
475
1169998
2381
我們沒有對他們沉默的權力,
19:32
because it is easier
476
1172379
1498
只因為那更簡單,
19:33
or because Western policy is flawed as well,
477
1173877
2861
或是因為西方國家的政策也有缺失,
19:36
because 5:17 is still coming
478
1176738
2336
因為五點十七分仍然發生在
19:39
to too many Amel Zenounes
479
1179074
1867
太多阿梅爾.任努-佐尼身上,
19:40
in places like northern Nigeria,
480
1180941
1970
發生在像北奈及利亞這樣的地方,
19:42
where jihadis still kill students.
481
1182911
2576
聖戰仍在那裡殺害學生。
19:45
The time to speak up in support of all of those
482
1185487
3081
聲援所有
19:48
who peacefully challenge fundamentalism
483
1188568
2308
和平對抗基本教義派
19:50
and terrorism in their own communities
484
1190876
2964
和社群內恐怖分子的時刻
19:53
is now.
485
1193840
1536
就是現在。
19:55
Thank you.
486
1195376
2283
謝謝。
19:57
(Applause)
487
1197659
2506
(掌聲)
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