Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights

112,407 views ・ 2015-05-20

TED


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譯者: FBC GLOBAL 審譯者: Harry Chen
00:12
I'd like to have you look at this pencil.
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請大家看看這支鉛筆 -
00:15
It's a thing. It's a legal thing.
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它是「法律上的物品」;
00:18
And so are books you might have or the cars you own.
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你們擁有的書本和汽車也一樣,
00:22
They're all legal things.
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它們全都是「法律上的物品」。
00:24
The great apes that you'll see behind me,
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你們即將在我背後屏幕上 所看到漂亮的黑猩猩,
00:27
they too are legal things.
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牠們也是法律上的物品;
00:31
Now, I can do that to a legal thing.
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此時此刻我可以對 法律上的物品做這種事,
00:35
I can do whatever I want to my book or my car.
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我可以隨意對我的書、 車子做任何事。
00:38
These great apes, you'll see.
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你們在螢幕上所看到 這些漂亮的黑猩猩,
00:41
The photographs are taken by a man named James Mollison
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照片是寫出「詹姆士以及其他黑猩猩」 的詹姆士.莫里森所拍下來的,
00:45
who wrote a book called "James & Other Apes."
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00:48
And he tells in his book how every single one them,
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他在書中講訴牠們之中的 每單隻、幾乎每一隻,
00:51
almost every one of them, is an orphan
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都是看著爸爸、媽媽 在眼前死去的孤兒,
00:53
who saw his mother and father die before his eyes.
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00:58
They're legal things.
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牠們是法律上的物品!
00:59
So for centuries, there's been a great legal wall
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好幾個世紀以來 一直有道法律高牆
01:02
that separates legal things from legal persons.
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區隔開「法律上的物品」 和「法律上的常人」,
01:05
On one hand, legal things are invisible to judges.
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牆的一邊 -「法律上的物品」 對法官來說就像空氣一樣,
01:09
They don't count in law.
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它們在法律裡不算數,
01:11
They don't have any legal rights.
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它們不具有任何法律所賦予權利、
01:13
They don't have the capacity for legal rights.
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沒有資格得到該權利 - 牠們是奴隸!
01:15
They are the slaves.
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01:17
On the other side of that legal wall are the legal persons.
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牆的另一邊是「法律上的常人」,
01:20
Legal persons are very visible to judges.
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「法律上的常人」對法官來說是具體的、
01:23
They count in law.
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在法律裡是算數的;
01:25
They may have many rights.
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他們可能擁有多項權利、
01:27
They have the capacity for an infinite number of rights.
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有取得無數權利的能力,
01:30
And they're the masters.
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而且他們是主子!
01:33
Right now, all nonhuman animals are legal things.
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此時此刻全部的非人類動物 都是法律上的物品、
01:37
All human beings are legal persons.
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所有人類都是「法人」;
01:40
But being human and being a legal person
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不過成為常人而且是法人,
01:43
has never been, and is not today, synonymous with a legal person.
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從來不曾是、在今天也不是 與法人有相同涵義的,
01:49
Humans and legal persons are not synonymous.
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人類不等同法人!
01:52
On the one side,
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高牆的一邊
01:55
there have been many human beings over the centuries
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長達好幾個世紀以來有許多人類
01:59
who have been legal things.
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一向都是法律上的物品,
02:01
Slaves were legal things.
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奴隸是法律上的物品、
02:02
Women, children, were sometimes legal things.
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女人、孩童有時候也是法律上的物品。
02:07
Indeed, a great deal of civil rights struggle over the last centuries
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確確實實長達過去好幾個 世紀以來大量的民權抗爭
02:11
has been to punch a hole through that wall and begin to feed
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已經在這道高牆上打穿了一個洞, 而且開始把這些人送過高牆去,
02:15
these human things through the wall and have them become legal persons.
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把他們變成了法人。
02:20
But alas, that hole has closed up.
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唉呀!不過那個洞已被關上了,
02:24
Now, on the other side are legal persons,
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牆的另一邊是法人,
02:26
but they've never only been limited to human beings.
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但是他們從來不是只侷限於人類,
02:30
There are, for example, there are many legal persons who are not even alive.
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例如有許多法人甚至不是活著的東西。
02:34
In the United States,
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在美國我們都清楚公司是法人的事實;
02:36
we're aware of the fact that corporations are legal persons.
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02:40
In pre-independence India,
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在獨立前的印度有個法庭認定 一尊印度神像是法人、
02:42
a court held that a Hindu idol was a legal person,
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02:45
that a mosque was a legal person.
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一間清真寺是法人,
02:47
In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court
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在 2000 年時印度最高法院
02:49
held that the holy books of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
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裁定錫克教的聖典是法人;
02:53
and in 2012, just recently,
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而就在最近的 2012 年
02:55
there was a treaty between the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
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紐西蘭原住民和君權政府之間的公約
02:59
and the crown, in which it was agreed that a river was a legal person
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認可了一條河流是法人,
03:02
who owned its own riverbed.
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它擁有著自己的河床。
03:05
Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,
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我在 1980 年時拜讀過 「彼得.辛格」的著作,
03:08
when I had a full head of lush, brown hair,
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當時我有著滿頭茂盛的棕髮,
03:12
and indeed I was moved by it,
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而深深被這本書感動,
03:15
because I had become a lawyer because I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
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因為我成為律師就是為了 來替弱勢者出聲、
03:18
defend the defenseless,
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為無力辯護的人來辯護;
03:19
and I'd never realized how voiceless and defenseless the trillions,
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而我從來不知道 有多如牛毛的非人類動物
03:24
billions of nonhuman animals are.
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是沒有聲音的、無力辯護的,
03:27
And I began to work as an animal protection lawyer.
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於是我開始當護守動物權利的律師。
03:30
And by 1985, I realized that I was trying to accomplish something
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到了 1985 年我意識到 自己正嘗試在做某種
03:35
that was literally impossible,
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根本不可能成功的事,
03:37
the reason being that all of my clients,
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理由就是我的所有客戶 -
03:40
all the animals whose interests I was trying to defend,
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所有我正在捍衛其權利的動物
03:43
were legal things; they were invisible.
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都是法律上的物品、被當成空氣一般!
03:46
It was not going to work, so I decided
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這根本行不通的,
因此我做出決定唯一的方法是 牠們必須 - 至少有些動物 -
03:48
that the only thing that was going to work was they had, at least some of them,
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03:52
had to also be moved through a hole that we could open up again in that wall
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也得一樣穿過我們在法律高牆上 再度打開的孔洞,
03:55
and begin feeding the appropriate nonhuman animals through that hole
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開始將合適的非人類動物送過這孔洞
03:59
onto the other side of being legal persons.
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去到身為法人的另一邊去。
04:02
Now, at that time, there was very little known about or spoken about
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在那時候後有關實切動物的權力
04:08
truly animal rights,
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所知不多、談論也少,
04:10
about the idea of having legal personhood or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,
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有關於讓非人類動物擁有法人身分 或是法律上之權力的概念,
04:15
and I knew it was going to take a long time.
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因此我知道這條路很漫長。
04:18
And so, in 1985, I figured that it would take about 30 years
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所以在 1985 年時 我以為會花上三十年的時間,
04:21
before we'd be able to even begin a strategic litigation,
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我們才會有辦法幾乎發起一樁 策略性訴訟、長期抗爭,
04:24
long-term campaign, in order to be able to punch another hole through that wall.
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為了能夠在法律的高牆上打穿另一個洞,
04:30
It turned out that I was pessimistic, that it only took 28.
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結果證明我太悲觀了 - 這只花了 28 年。
04:38
So what we had to do in order to begin was not only
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為了要開始我們必須做的不只是
04:45
to write law review articles and teach classes, write books,
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寫寫法律評論文章、開課或出書而已,
04:49
but we had to then begin to get down to the nuts and bolts
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而且我們得接著開始認真專注於
04:52
of how you litigate that kind of case.
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要如何提起爭訟的具體細節。
04:54
So one of the first things we needed to do was figure out what a cause of action was,
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因此首要之事裡面有一件 便是釐清事由 -
04:58
a legal cause of action.
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法律上的訴訟事由,
05:00
And a legal cause of action is a vehicle that lawyers use
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訴訟事由是律師在法官面前 用來表達論點的方法。
05:03
to put their arguments in front of courts.
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05:08
It turns out there's a very interesting case
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結果有個非常值得玩味的案子,
05:11
that had occurred almost 250 years ago in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,
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發生在約 250 年前的倫敦, 被稱做「桑莫塞特與史都華爭訟」,
05:16
whereby a black slave had used the legal system
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藉此一位黑人奴隸利用了司法的體制
05:19
and had moved from a legal thing to a legal person.
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從法律上的東西轉變成為法人!
05:22
I was so interested in it that I eventually wrote an entire book about it.
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我對該案件深感興趣, 我最終還為此寫了一整本書。
05:26
James Somerset was an eight-year-old boy when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
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詹姆斯.桑默塞特在西非 遭到綁架時年僅八歲,
05:31
He survived the Middle Passage,
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他熬過了「中央航線」,
05:34
and he was sold to a Scottish businessman named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
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以及在維吉尼亞州被賣給一名 蘇格蘭商人查爾斯.史都華。
05:39
Now, 20 years later, Stewart brought James Somerset to London,
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20 年後查爾斯帶著詹姆斯去到倫敦,
05:44
and after he got there, James decided he was going to escape.
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到倫敦後詹姆斯便決定要脫逃。
05:47
And so one of the first things he did was to get himself baptized,
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所以他所做的第一件事便是受洗,
05:51
because he wanted to get a set of godparents,
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目的是為了得到一對教父、母;
05:53
because to an 18th-century slave,
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對一個十八世紀的奴隸來說
05:55
they knew that one of the major responsibilities of godfathers
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他們知道教父的一個重責大任 就是幫助你脫逃。
05:58
was to help you escape.
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06:00
And so in the fall of 1771,
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而在 1771 年的秋天,
06:04
James Somerset had a confrontation with Charles Stewart.
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詹姆斯和查爾斯起了衝突,
06:07
We don't know exactly what happened, but then James dropped out of sight.
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我們也不知道到底是發生了什麼事, 不過後來詹姆斯消失不見了。
06:12
An enraged Charles Stewart then hired slave catchers
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盛怒的查爾斯隨後雇用了 獵奴人查訪倫敦市,
06:15
to canvass the city of London,
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06:17
find him, bring him not back to Charles Stewart,
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找出他、帶他回泊留在倫敦港的 「安與瑪莉號」船上
06:20
but to a ship, the Ann and Mary, that was floating in London Harbour,
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而非帶回給查爾斯;
06:26
and he was chained to the deck,
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而且他被鏈鎖在甲板上,
06:27
and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica
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該船預定要航向牙買加,
06:29
where James was to be sold in the slave markets
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在那裡詹姆斯即將在奴隸市場被賣掉,
06:32
and be doomed to the three to five years of life that a slave had
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他被註定了奴隸在牙買加會有的日子 三到五年裡不停收割甘蔗。
06:36
harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.
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06:39
Well now James' godparents swung into action.
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不錯,當下詹姆斯的教父、母 迅速有所行動,
06:42
They approached the most powerful judge,
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找上了最權威的法官 -
06:44
Lord Mansfield, who was chief judge of the court of King's Bench,
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「曼斯菲爾德」大法官, 其為「王座法庭」的首席法官。
06:48
and they demanded that he issue a common law writ of habeus corpus
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他們代表詹姆士要求他簽發 人身保護令普通法傳票。
06:52
on behalf of James Somerset.
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06:53
Now, the common law is the kind of law that English-speaking judges can make
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普通法是當未被法令或是憲法所納入
06:57
when they're not cabined in by statutes or constitutions,
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英語系國家的法官可以 制訂法條的法律;
07:02
and a writ of habeus corpus is called the Great Writ,
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而人身保護令傳票叫做「大令狀」,
07:04
capital G, capital W,
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07:06
and it's meant to protect any of us who are detained against our will.
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旨在保護我們誰違反自身意願 遭受拘禁的任何人。
07:11
A writ of habeus corpus is issued.
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一旦人身保護令傳票被簽發,
07:13
The detainer is required to bring the detainee in
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拘禁人受命帶來受拘禁者到庭上
07:15
and give a legally sufficient reason for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
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並且給出剝奪其身體自由 在法律上的充分理由。
07:21
Well, Lord Mansfield had to make a decision right off the bat,
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好了,曼斯菲爾德大法官必須 即刻做出決定,
07:26
because if James Somerset was a legal thing,
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因為詹姆士是「法律上的物品」
07:29
he was not eligible for a writ of habeus corpus,
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他不合乎於人身保護令傳票的用途,
07:32
only if he could be a legal person.
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除非他可以是個法人。
07:34
So Lord Mansfield decided that he would assume,
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所以曼斯菲爾德大法官決定 - 他將會假定而不是裁定
07:37
without deciding, that James Somerset was indeed a legal person,
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詹姆斯確實是個法人,
07:41
and he issued the writ of habeus corpus, and James's body was brought in
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他簽發了人身保護令傳票, 詹姆士人就被該船船長帶來法庭上。
07:44
by the captain of the ship.
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07:46
There were a series of hearings over the next six months.
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接下來六個月內有一連串的聽證會。
07:49
On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield said that slavery was so odious,
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1772 年 6 月 22 日曼斯菲爾德 大法官直言奴隸制度是如此醜惡,
07:55
and he used the word "odious,"
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他用了「醜惡」這個字眼,
07:56
that the common law would not support it, and he ordered James free.
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這下普通法不會再助長它的, 他發出釋放詹姆士的命令。
08:00
At that moment, James Somerset underwent a legal transubstantiation.
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在那一刻詹姆斯經歷了法律上的轉形,
08:04
The free man who walked out of the courtroom
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走出法庭這個自由的男人
08:06
looked exactly like the slave who had walked in,
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看起來和走進法庭的奴隸完全相像,
08:09
but as far as the law was concerned, they had nothing whatsoever in common.
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不過就法律層面而言 他倆已經沒有任何相同之處了。
08:14
The next thing we did is that the Nonhuman Rights Project,
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我所成立的 「非人類權利專案」 所做的下一件事情是
08:17
which I founded, then began to look at what kind of values and principles
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接著開始著眼於我們想放在法官面前的 是什麼樣的價值觀和原則,
08:21
do we want to put before the judges?
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08:24
What values and principles did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
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哪些價值觀和原則 對他們來說再自然不過?
08:28
were they taught in law school, do they use every day,
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在法學院裡有上過?每天都會用到? 他們打從心底相信?
08:31
do they believe with all their hearts -- and we chose liberty and equality.
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而我們選中「自由」和「平等」。
08:34
Now, liberty right is the kind of right to which you're entitled
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如今自由之權是那種因為 你的外觀所被賦予的權利,
08:37
because of how you're put together,
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08:40
and a fundamental liberty right protects a fundamental interest.
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而基本的自由權保護基本的利益。
08:45
And the supreme interest in the common law
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普通法至高的利益
08:48
are the rights to autonomy and self-determination.
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是自主和自決的權力。
08:54
So they are so powerful that in a common law country,
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所以這兩種權利非常強大,
08:57
if you go to a hospital and you refuse life-saving medical treatment,
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在普通法國家要是你進了醫院 而拒絕了保命的醫療救治,
09:02
a judge will not order it forced upon you,
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法官不會下令使其強加於你身上,
09:04
because they will respect your self-determination and your autonomy.
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因為他們會尊重你的自決和自主權。
09:09
Now, an equality right is the kind of right to which you're entitled
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平等權是那種因為你很某人在有關方面
09:12
because you resemble someone else in a relevant way,
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看起來很相像而你所被賦予的權利,
09:15
and there's the rub, relevant way.
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這裡有一個關卡 - 相關方面;
09:17
So if you are that, then because they have the right, you're like them,
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所以要是你是那樣, 然後因為他們有權利、你和他們相像,
09:21
you're entitled to the right.
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你就被賦予了該權力。
09:23
Now, courts and legislatures draw lines all the time.
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如今法院和立法機構 不時劃分出界限,
09:26
Some are included, some are excluded.
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有些人被包含在內、有些人排除在外。
09:29
But you have to, at the bare minimum you must --
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但是在最低限度你一定要、你得要 -
09:35
that line has to be a reasonable means to a legitimate end.
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那條線對合法性的目標來說 得要是合理的方式,
09:39
The Nonhuman Rights Project argues that drawing a line
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「非人類權利專案」 據理說明:畫出一條線
09:42
in order to enslave an autonomous and self-determining being
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就為了宰制像你所看到在我背後螢幕上 有自主和自決力的生物,
09:45
like you're seeing behind me,
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09:47
that that's a violation of equality.
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那是違背了平等權。
09:51
We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,
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然後我們找遍80個司法管轄區,
09:53
it took us seven years, to find the jurisdiction
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花費了七年的時間,
09:56
where we wanted to begin filing our first suit.
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找出我們要提出第一個 訴案的司法管轄地,
09:58
We chose the state of New York.
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我們選擇了紐約。
09:59
Then we decided upon who our plaintiffs are going to be.
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然後我們選定了誰將會是 原告 - 黑猩猩,
10:02
We decided upon chimpanzees,
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10:04
not just because Jane Goodall was on our board of directors,
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不僅因為「珍.古德」 當時是我們董事會的成員,
10:07
but because they, Jane and others,
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更是因為珍和其他人已經扎實地 研究黑猩猩幾十年了。
10:10
have studied chimpanzees intensively for decades.
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10:13
We know the extraordinary cognitive capabilities that they have,
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我們已經知道黑猩猩具有 驚人的認知能力、
10:17
and they also resemble the kind that human beings have.
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他們的身體構造也和人類相像,
10:20
And so we chose chimpanzees, and we began to then canvass the world
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所以我們選擇了黑猩猩; 之後我們開始到世界處探問,
10:25
to find the experts in chimpanzee cognition.
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要找出黑猩猩認知研究的專家,
10:28
We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany, Scotland, England and the United States,
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我們在日本、瑞典、德國、蘇格蘭、 英格蘭和美國找到這些人,
10:32
and amongst them, they wrote 100 pages of affidavits
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這些人之中寫了 100 頁的書面證詞,
10:35
in which they set out more than 40 ways
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裡面列出了40多種研究方法,
10:38
in which their complex cognitive capability,
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其中他們錯綜複雜的認知力 單獨也好、共同也罷,
10:41
either individually or together,
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10:43
all added up to autonomy and self-determination.
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全都提升了自主和自決力。
10:47
Now, these included, for example, that they were conscious.
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舉例來說現在這些納進來的 這些非人類動物是有意識的,
10:50
But they're also conscious that they're conscious.
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而且他們也能意識到 自己是有意識的;
10:53
They know they have a mind. They know that others have minds.
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他們知道自己有心智、 他們知道其他黑猩猩有心智;
10:56
They know they're individuals, and that they can live.
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他們知道自己是個體、 而且能夠過日子;
10:58
They understand that they lived yesterday and they will live tomorrow.
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他們知道自己昨天活著, 而且明天還會活着;
11:01
They engage in mental time travel. They remember what happened yesterday.
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他們進行心靈的時光之旅, 他們記得昨天發生過的事情、
11:05
They can anticipate tomorrow,
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他們能夠預測明天。
11:06
which is why it's so terrible to imprison a chimpanzee, especially alone.
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這是為什麼關住一隻黑猩猩, 尤其是單獨一隻有多麼駭人;
11:11
It's the thing that we do to our worst criminals,
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這是我們對罪大惡極的人犯所作之事,
11:14
and we do that to chimpanzees without even thinking about it.
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而我們對黑猩猩們做這檔事 連想都沒有想過這點!
11:19
They have some kind of moral capacity.
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牠們具有某種良知本能,
11:22
When they play economic games with human beings,
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牠們和人類進行經濟活動時,
11:25
they'll spontaneously make fair offers, even when they're not required to do so.
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牠們會自動地做出對等的提案, 儘管沒人要求牠們這麼做。
11:29
They are numerate. They understand numbers.
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牠們會算數的 - 牠們瞭解數字、
11:31
They can do some simple math.
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他們能做一些簡單的數學運算;
11:32
They can engage in language -- or to stay out of the language wars,
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牠們可以進行或是避免語言的爭戰;
11:36
they're involved in intentional and referential communication
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他們投入於本意的以及指射性的溝通,
11:40
in which they pay attention to the attitudes of those
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在溝通中會留意牠們正在 講話之對象的態度;
11:42
with whom they are speaking.
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11:44
They have culture.
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他們有文化 -
11:45
They have a material culture, a social culture.
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有實物的文化、社會的文化、
11:48
They have a symbolic culture.
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還有象徵含意的文化。
11:50
Scientists in the Taï Forests in the Ivory Coast
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科學家在象牙海岸的塔伊國家森林
11:54
found chimpanzees who were using these rocks to smash open
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發現正在用石頭敲開 果殼異常堅硬之核果的黑猩猩,
11:58
the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.
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12:01
It takes a long time to learn how to do that,
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這花了很長的一段時間來學如何做到,
12:03
and they excavated the area and they found
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他們挖掘了該地區 而發現這個實物文化,
12:05
that this material culture, this way of doing it,
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這樣子做事的方法,
12:08
these rocks, had passed down for at least 4,300 years
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這些石頭已經傳承下來 至少 4,300 年,
12:11
through 225 chimpanzee generations.
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經歷了 225 代的黑猩猩。
12:16
So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.
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所以我們需要找出我們的黑猩猩原告,
12:19
Our chimpanzee,
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首先我們在紐約找到兩隻,
12:22
first we found two of them in the state of New York.
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12:25
Both of them would die before we could even get our suits filed.
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兩隻都會在我們第一次提交 訴訟之前就死掉;
12:28
Then we found Tommy.
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後來我們找到了「湯米」,
12:30
Tommy is a chimpanzee. You see him behind me.
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湯米是一隻黑猩猩, 大家看牠就在我背後的螢幕上,
12:33
Tommy was a chimpanzee. We found him in that cage.
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湯米當初是一隻黑猩猩, 我們在籠子裏找到了牠,
12:35
We found him in a small room that was filled with cages
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我們在一個塞滿籠子 的小房間裡發現他的,
12:39
in a larger warehouse structure on a used trailer lot in central New York.
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就在紐約中央曾經用來當拖車場的 一間大型倉儲建物裡。
12:44
We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.
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我們還找到了「濟科」, 他有一邊的耳朵聾掉了。
12:46
Kiko was in the back of a cement storefront in western Massachusetts.
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濟科當時在麻省西部 一排水泥鄰街店舖的後方;
12:52
And we found Hercules and Leo.
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我們找到了「赫裘里斯」和「李奧」。
12:54
They're two young male chimpanzees
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他們是兩隻年輕的雄性黑猩猩,
12:55
who are being used for biomedical, anatomical research at Stony Brook.
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他們正在石溪大學 接受生物醫學、解剖學的研究,
12:59
We found them.
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我們發現了牠倆。
13:00
And so on the last week of December 2013,
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然後在 2013 年 12 月的最後一週,
13:03
the Nonhuman Rights Project filed three suits all across the state of New York
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「非人類權利專案」在全紐約 提交了三起訴訟,
13:07
using the same common law writ of habeus corpus argument
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利用一樣曾經用在詹姆士.桑莫塞特 案子的一般法人身保護令傳票,
13:10
that had been used with James Somerset,
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13:13
and we demanded that the judges issue these common law writs of habeus corpus.
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我們要求法官簽發 普通法人身保護令傳票。
13:18
We wanted the chimpanzees out,
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我們想要救出這些黑猩猩,
13:20
and we wanted them brought to Save the Chimps,
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想讓牠們被送去「拯救黑猩猩」,
13:23
a tremendous chimpanzee sanctuary in South Florida
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那是一個在南佛羅里達州 極棒的黑猩猩庇護地,
13:27
which involves an artificial lake with 12 or 13 islands --
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包括了一個有著 12、3 個 小島的人工湖,
13:32
there are two or three acres where two dozen chimpanzees live
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小島面積為二到三畝, 每個小島上住著二十四隻的黑猩猩。
13:35
on each of them.
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13:36
And these chimpanzees would then live the life of a chimpanzee,
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這些黑猩猩將會過上 黑猩猩的生活,
13:39
with other chimpanzees in an environment that was as close to Africa as possible.
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與其他的黑猩猩在一個 盡可能接近西非的環境,
13:43
Now, all these cases are still going on.
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至今所有的案件仍在審理中,
13:48
We have not yet run into our Lord Mansfield.
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我們尚未巧遇到 我們的曼斯菲爾德大法官,
13:52
We shall. We shall.
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我們應該會碰到的,
13:54
This is a long-term strategic litigation campaign. We shall.
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這是一場長期戰略性的訴訟戰役, 我們應該會碰上的啦。
13:58
And to quote Winston Churchill,
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引用「溫斯頓.邱吉爾」的說法 ,
14:00
the way we view our cases is that they're not the end,
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我們看待自己訴案的方式 - 它們並非是個結束,
14:04
they're not even the beginning of the end,
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甚至不是結束的開端,
14:06
but they are perhaps the end of the beginning.
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不過它們也許是一個開端的結束。
14:10
Thank you.
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謝謝大家!
14:12
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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