Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights

Prevoditelj: Martina Valković Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

I'd like to have you look at this pencil.

Htio bih da pogledate ovu olovku.

It's a thing. It's a legal thing.

To je stvar. Pravno gledano, ona je stvar.

And so are books you might have or the cars you own.

Kao i knjige i automobili koje posjedujete.

They're all legal things.

Sve su to, pravno gledano, stvari.

The great apes that you'll see behind me,

Veliki čovjekoliki majmuni koje ćete vidjeti iza mene

they too are legal things.

su također, pravno gledano, stvari.

Now, I can do that to a legal thing.

Stvari mogu učiniti ovo.

I can do whatever I want to my book or my car.

Mogu učiniti što god hoću mojoj knjizi ili automobilu.

These great apes, you'll see.

Ovi veliki čovjekoliki majmuni, vidjet ćete.

The photographs are taken by a man named James Mollison

Fotografirao ih je čovjek koji se zove James Mollison,

who wrote a book called "James & Other Apes."

koji je napisao knjigu "James i drugi čovjekoliki majmuni".

And he tells in his book how every single one them,

I piše u knjizi kako je svaki od njih,

almost every one of them, is an orphan

gotovo svaki od njih, siroče

who saw his mother and father die before his eyes.

koje je vidjelo svoju majku i oca kako umiru pred njegovim očima.

They're legal things.

Pravno, oni su stvari.

So for centuries, there's been a great legal wall

Tako je stoljećima postojao veliki zakonski zid

that separates legal things from legal persons.

koji razdvaja stvari od osoba.

On one hand, legal things are invisible to judges.

S jedne strane, stvari su sucima nevidljive.

They don't count in law.

Ne računaju se pri donošenju zakona.

They don't have any legal rights.

Nemaju nikakvih zakonskih prava.

They don't have the capacity for legal rights.

Nemaju predispoziciju za imati zakonska prava.

They are the slaves.

One su robovi.

On the other side of that legal wall are the legal persons.

S druge strane tog zakonskog zida su osobe.

Legal persons are very visible to judges.

Osobe su jako vidljive sucima.

They count in law.

Računaju se pri donošenju zakona.

They may have many rights.

Mogu imati brojna prava.

They have the capacity for an infinite number of rights.

Imaju predispoziciju za beskonačan broj prava.

And they're the masters.

I one su gospodari.

Right now, all nonhuman animals are legal things.

Trenutno, sve neljudske životinje su, pravno gledano, stvari.

All human beings are legal persons.

Sva ljudska bića su, legalno gledano, osobe.

But being human and being a legal person

No biti čovjekom i biti osoba

has never been, and is not today, synonymous with a legal person.

nije nikada bilo, a nije ni danas, sinonimno s osobom.

Humans and legal persons are not synonymous.

Ljudi i osobe nisu sinonimi.

On the one side,

S jedne strane,

there have been many human beings over the centuries

tijekom mnogih stoljeća, postojala su brojna ljudska bića

who have been legal things.

koje su pravno gledano bile stvari.

Slaves were legal things.

Robovi su, pravno, bili stvari.

Women, children, were sometimes legal things.

Žene, djeca, su ponekad pravno bili stvari.

Indeed, a great deal of civil rights struggle over the last centuries

Doista, velik dio borbe za građanska prava u posljednjim stoljećima

has been to punch a hole through that wall and begin to feed

bio je probiti rupu u tom zidu i početi provlačiti

these human things through the wall and have them become legal persons.

te ljudske stvari kroz zid i učiniti ih i pravno osobama.

But alas, that hole has closed up.

Ali, jao, ta se rupa zatvorila.

Now, on the other side are legal persons,

S druge strane, imamo osobe,

but they've never only been limited to human beings.

ali taj zakonski status nije nikada bio limitiran na samo ljudska bića.

There are, for example, there are many legal persons who are not even alive.

Postoje mnoge osobe koje čak nisu ni žive.

In the United States,

U Sjedinjenim državama,

we're aware of the fact that corporations are legal persons.

svjesni smo činjenice da su korporacije, pravno gledano, osobe.

In pre-independence India,

U Indiji prije proglašenja nezavisnosti.

a court held that a Hindu idol was a legal person,

na sudu su hinduistički idoli smatrani osobama,

that a mosque was a legal person.

kao i džamije.

In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court

Godine 2000., indijski Vrhovni sud

held that the holy books of the Sikh religion was a legal person,

smatrao je svete knjige Sikha osobama,

and in 2012, just recently,

a 2012., nedavno,

there was a treaty between the indigenous peoples of New Zealand

postignut je sporazum između urođeničkih naroda Novog Zelanda

and the crown, in which it was agreed that a river was a legal person

i krune, u kojem je dogovoreno da je rijeka, legalno gledano, osoba

who owned its own riverbed.

koja posjeduje vlastito korito.

Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,

Pročitao sam knjigu Petera Singera 1980. godine,

when I had a full head of lush, brown hair,

kad sam još imao gustu, bujnu smeđu kosu

and indeed I was moved by it,

i zaista sam bio ganut njome, zato što

because I had become a lawyer because I wanted to speak for the voiceless,

sam postao odvjetnik jer sam želio biti glas onih čiji se glas ne čuje,

defend the defenseless,

braniti nezaštićene,

and I'd never realized how voiceless and defenseless the trillions,

a nisam nikada shvatio koliko su bez glasa i nezaštićeni trilijuni,

billions of nonhuman animals are.

milijarde neljudskih životinja.

And I began to work as an animal protection lawyer.

I počeo sam raditi kao odvjetnik za zaštitu životinja.

And by 1985, I realized that I was trying to accomplish something

I do 1985. godine, shvatio sam da sam pokušavao postići nešto

that was literally impossible,

što je bilo doslovno nemoguće,

the reason being that all of my clients,

zato što su svi moji klijenti,

all the animals whose interests I was trying to defend,

sve životinje čije sam interese pokušavao braniti,

were legal things; they were invisible.

pravno bile stvari; bile su nevidljive.

It was not going to work, so I decided

To nije moglo uspjeti, pa sam odlučio

that the only thing that was going to work was they had, at least some of them,

da je jedina stvar koja bi mogla upaliti, da, barem neke od njih,

had to also be moved through a hole that we could open up again in that wall

također provučemo kroz rupu koju bi opet mogli otvoriti u tom zidu

and begin feeding the appropriate nonhuman animals through that hole

i počnemo provlačiti odgovarajuće neljudske životinje kroz tu rupu

onto the other side of being legal persons.

na drugu stranu, gdje bi pravno bili osobe.

Now, at that time, there was very little known about or spoken about

U to vrijeme, malo se znalo ili govorilo o

truly animal rights,

istinski životinjskim pravima,

about the idea of having legal personhood or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,

o ideji pravnog statusa osobe ili zakonskih prava za neljudske životinje

and I knew it was going to take a long time.

i znao sam da će biti potrebno puno vremena.

And so, in 1985, I figured that it would take about 30 years

I tako, 1985., shvatio sam da će trebati oko 30 godina

before we'd be able to even begin a strategic litigation,

da budemo u mogućnosti barem započeti stratešku parnicu,

long-term campaign, in order to be able to punch another hole through that wall.

dugoročnu kampanju, kako bi mogli probiti još jednu rupu u tom zidu.

It turned out that I was pessimistic, that it only took 28.

Ispostavilo se da sam bio pesimističan, da je trebalo samo 28 godina.

So what we had to do in order to begin was not only

Kako bi započeli, nije bilo dovoljno samo

to write law review articles and teach classes, write books,

pisati članke i podučavati, pisati knjige,

but we had to then begin to get down to the nuts and bolts

nego smo se trebali spustiti do samih praktičnih detalja

of how you litigate that kind of case.

u vođenju takvih sporova.

So one of the first things we needed to do was figure out what a cause of action was,

Među prvim stvarima za učiniti bilo je otkriti razlog za pokretanje spora,

a legal cause of action.

pravni razlog pokretanja spora.

And a legal cause of action is a vehicle that lawyers use

A taj pravni razlog je alat koji odvjetnici koriste

to put their arguments in front of courts.

kako bi prezentirali svoje argumente pred sudom.

It turns out there's a very interesting case

Ispostavilo se da postoji vrlo zanimljiv slučaj

that had occurred almost 250 years ago in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,

koji se odvio pred gotovo 250 godina u Londonu, zvan Somerset protiv Stewarta,

whereby a black slave had used the legal system

gdje je crni rob iskoristio pravni sustav

and had moved from a legal thing to a legal person.

i promijenio svoj pravni status od stvari na osobu.

I was so interested in it that I eventually wrote an entire book about it.

Toliko me to zainteresiralo da sam na kraju napisao čitavu knjigu o tome.

James Somerset was an eight-year-old boy when he was kidnapped from West Africa.

James Somerset je bio osmogodišnji dječak kad je otet iz zapadne Afrike.

He survived the Middle Passage,

Preživio je trgovinu robljem preko Atlantika

and he was sold to a Scottish businessman named Charles Stewart in Virginia.

i prodan je škotskom biznismenu Charlesu Stewartu u Virginiji.

Now, 20 years later, Stewart brought James Somerset to London,

Nakon 20 godina, Stewart je doveo Jamesa Somerseta u London,

and after he got there, James decided he was going to escape.

a po dolasku tamo, James je odlučio pobjeći.

And so one of the first things he did was to get himself baptized,

Jedna od prvih stvari koje je napravio bilo je krštenje,

because he wanted to get a set of godparents,

jer je želio kumove,

because to an 18th-century slave,

zato što za roba u 18. stoljeću,

they knew that one of the major responsibilities of godfathers

znalo se da je jedna od najvažnijih obveza kumova

was to help you escape.

bila ta da vam pomognu u bijegu.

And so in the fall of 1771,

I tako u jesen 1771.,

James Somerset had a confrontation with Charles Stewart.

James Somerset se sukobio s Charlesom Stewartom.

We don't know exactly what happened, but then James dropped out of sight.

Ne znamo točno što se dogodilo, no onda se James izgubio iz vida.

An enraged Charles Stewart then hired slave catchers

Razbješnjeli Charles Stewart tada je angažirao hvatače robova

to canvass the city of London,

kako bi pretražili London,

find him, bring him not back to Charles Stewart,

pronašli ga, doveli ga ne natrag Charlesu Stewartu,

but to a ship, the Ann and Mary, that was floating in London Harbour,

već na brod koji je bio privezan u londonskoj luci,

and he was chained to the deck,

i bio je okovan za palubu

and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica

i brod je trebao isploviti za Jamajku

where James was to be sold in the slave markets

gdje je James trebao biti prodan na tržnici robova

and be doomed to the three to five years of life that a slave had

i osuđen na tri do pet godina života koliko su robovi živjeli

harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.

berući šećernu trsku na Jamajci.

Well now James' godparents swung into action.

Sada su Jamesovi kumovi stupili u akciju.

They approached the most powerful judge,

Prišli su najmoćnijem sucu,

Lord Mansfield, who was chief judge of the court of King's Bench,

lordu Mansfieldu, koji je bio glavni sudac na kraljevom sudu,

and they demanded that he issue a common law writ of habeus corpus

i zahtijevali da izda običajnopravni sudski nalog habeus corpus,

on behalf of James Somerset.

za dovođenje Jamesa Somerseta.

Now, the common law is the kind of law that English-speaking judges can make

Običajno pravo je vrsta zakona koje suci mogu donijeti

when they're not cabined in by statutes or constitutions,

kada nisu ograničeni statutima ili ustavima,

and a writ of habeus corpus is called the Great Writ,

a nalog habeus corpus je zvan Veliki nalog,

capital G, capital W,

s velikim početnim slovom,

and it's meant to protect any of us who are detained against our will.

i namijenjen je da štiti svakoga koji je negdje zadržan protivno svojoj volji.

A writ of habeus corpus is issued.

Nalog habeus corpus je izdan.

The detainer is required to bring the detainee in

Onaj koji je zadržao treba dovesti zadržanog

and give a legally sufficient reason for depriving him of his bodily liberty.

i dati pravno valjan razlog za lišavanje te osobe njegove slobode.

Well, Lord Mansfield had to make a decision right off the bat,

Lord Mansfield je trebao donijeti odluku brzo,

because if James Somerset was a legal thing,

jer ako je James Somerset pravno bio stvar,

he was not eligible for a writ of habeus corpus,

nije imao pravo na nalog habeus corpus,

only if he could be a legal person.

samo ako je mogao pravno biti osoba.

So Lord Mansfield decided that he would assume,

Tako je Lord Mansfield odlučio pretpostaviti,

without deciding, that James Somerset was indeed a legal person,

bez odlučivanja, da je James Somerset zaista pravno osoba,

and he issued the writ of habeus corpus, and James's body was brought in

i izdao je nalog habeus corpus i kapetan broda je doveo

by the captain of the ship.

Jamesovo tijelo pred sud.

There were a series of hearings over the next six months.

Kroz sljedećih šest mjeseci obavljen je niz saslušanja.

On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield said that slavery was so odious,

Dana 22. lipnja 1772., Lord Mansfield rekao je da je ropstvo toliko odvratno,

and he used the word "odious,"

i iskoristio je riječ "odvratno",

that the common law would not support it, and he ordered James free.

da ga običajno pravo neće podržati, te je naredio da se James oslobodi.

At that moment, James Somerset underwent a legal transubstantiation.

U tom trenutku, James Somerset je prošao kroz pravnu transupstancijaciju.

The free man who walked out of the courtroom

Slobodan čovjek koji je izašao iz sudnice

looked exactly like the slave who had walked in,

izgledao je točno kao rob koji je u nju ušao,

but as far as the law was concerned, they had nothing whatsoever in common.

no, što se zakona ticalo, oni nisu imali ništa zajedničko.

The next thing we did is that the Nonhuman Rights Project,

Sljedeće što smo učinili jest da je Nonhuman Rights Project,

which I founded, then began to look at what kind of values and principles

kojega sam osnovao, tada počeo razmatrati koje vrijednosti i principe

do we want to put before the judges?

želimo predstaviti sucima?

What values and principles did they imbibe with their mother's milk,

Koje vrijednosti i principe su upili s majčinim mlijekom,

were they taught in law school, do they use every day,

koje su učili na studiju prava, koje svakodnevno koriste,

do they believe with all their hearts -- and we chose liberty and equality.

u koje vjeruju cijelim srcem -- i izabrali smo slobodu i jednakost.

Now, liberty right is the kind of right to which you're entitled

Pravo na slobodu je vrsta prava kojeg imate

because of how you're put together,

zbog toga kako ste sastavljeni,

and a fundamental liberty right protects a fundamental interest.

a fundamentalno pravo na slobodu štiti fundamentalne interese.

And the supreme interest in the common law

A najviši interes u običajnom pravu

are the rights to autonomy and self-determination.

su prava na autonomiju i samoodređenje.

So they are so powerful that in a common law country,

Ona su toliko moćna da u državi koja se vodi običajnim pravom,

if you go to a hospital and you refuse life-saving medical treatment,

ako odete u bolnicu i odbijete medicinski tretman koji bi vam spasio život,

a judge will not order it forced upon you,

sudac neće narediti da vas se prisilno liječi,

because they will respect your self-determination and your autonomy.

zato što će poštivati vaše samoodređenje i vašu autonomiju.

Now, an equality right is the kind of right to which you're entitled

S druge strane, pravo na jednakost je vrsta prava kojeg imate

because you resemble someone else in a relevant way,

zato što ste u relevantnom smislu slični nekome drugome,

and there's the rub, relevant way.

i tu je problem, relevantni smisao.

So if you are that, then because they have the right, you're like them,

Znači ako ste to, onda zato što oni imaju pravo, vi ste kao oni,

you're entitled to the right.

pa i vi imate to pravo.

Now, courts and legislatures draw lines all the time.

Sudovi i zakonodavna tijela stalno povlače granice.

Some are included, some are excluded.

Neki su uključeni, neki su isključeni.

But you have to, at the bare minimum you must --

Ali morate, kao minimalan uvjet morate --

that line has to be a reasonable means to a legitimate end.

ta granica mora biti razumno sredstvo za postizanje legitimnog cilja.

The Nonhuman Rights Project argues that drawing a line

Nonhuman Rights Project tvrdi da povlačenje granice

in order to enslave an autonomous and self-determining being

kako bi se porobilo autonomno i samoodređujuće biće,

like you're seeing behind me,

poput onog kojeg vidite iza mene,

that that's a violation of equality.

to je kršenje jednakosti.

We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,

Tada smo pretražili 80 jurisdikcija,

it took us seven years, to find the jurisdiction

trebalo nam je 7 godina, da nađemo jurisdikciju

where we wanted to begin filing our first suit.

gdje smo željeli podnijeti našu prvu tužbu.

We chose the state of New York.

Izabrali smo državu New York.

Then we decided upon who our plaintiffs are going to be.

Onda smo odlučili tko će biti naši tužitelji.

We decided upon chimpanzees,

Odlučili smo se za čimpanze,

not just because Jane Goodall was on our board of directors,

ne samo zato što nam je Jane Goodall bila u upravnom odboru,

but because they, Jane and others,

već i zato što su oni, Jane i ostali,

have studied chimpanzees intensively for decades.

intenzivno desetljećima proučavali čimpanze.

We know the extraordinary cognitive capabilities that they have,

Znali smo koje izvanredne kognitivne sposobnosti one imaju,

and they also resemble the kind that human beings have.

koje također nalikuju onima koje ljudska bića imaju.

And so we chose chimpanzees, and we began to then canvass the world

I tako smo izabrali čimpanze i počeli tragati svijetom

to find the experts in chimpanzee cognition.

kako bi pronašli stručnjake za kogniciju čimpanzi.

We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany, Scotland, England and the United States,

Pronašli smo ih u Japanu, Švedskoj, Njemačkoj, Škotskoj, Engleskoj i SAD-u,

and amongst them, they wrote 100 pages of affidavits

i oni su napisali pismeni iskaz na 100 stranica

in which they set out more than 40 ways

u kojem su skicirali više od 40 načina

in which their complex cognitive capability,

na koje njihove kompleksne kognitivne sposobnosti,

either individually or together,

individualno ili zajedno,

all added up to autonomy and self-determination.

dovode do autonomije i samoodređenja.

Now, these included, for example, that they were conscious.

To je uključivalo, na primjer, to da su one svjesne.

But they're also conscious that they're conscious.

Ali one su također svjesne da su svjesne.

They know they have a mind. They know that others have minds.

One znaju da imaju um. One znaju da drugi imaju umove.

They know they're individuals, and that they can live.

One znaju da su individue, da mogu živjeti.

They understand that they lived yesterday and they will live tomorrow.

Razumiju da su živjele jučer i da će živjeti sutra.

They engage in mental time travel. They remember what happened yesterday.

Mentalno putuju kroz vrijeme. Sjećaju se što se dogodilo jučer.

They can anticipate tomorrow,

Mogu anticipirati sutrašnjicu,

which is why it's so terrible to imprison a chimpanzee, especially alone.

zbog čega je tako užasno zatočiti čimpanzu, pogotovo samu.

It's the thing that we do to our worst criminals,

To je ono što činimo našim najgorim kriminalcima,

and we do that to chimpanzees without even thinking about it.

a činimo to i čimpanzama bez da uopće razmišljamo o tome.

They have some kind of moral capacity.

One imaju određenu vrstu moralne sposobnosti.

When they play economic games with human beings,

Kada s ljudskim bićima igraju igre ekonomske strategije,

they'll spontaneously make fair offers, even when they're not required to do so.

spontano će dati fer ponude, čak i kada se to ne traži od njih.

They are numerate. They understand numbers.

Razumiju brojeve.

They can do some simple math.

Mogu računati.

They can engage in language -- or to stay out of the language wars,

Mogu se koristiti jezikom,

they're involved in intentional and referential communication

uključeni su u intencionalnu i referencijalnu komunikaciju

in which they pay attention to the attitudes of those

u kojoj obraćaju pažnju na držanje onih

with whom they are speaking.

s kojima razgovaraju.

They have culture.

Imaju kulturu.

They have a material culture, a social culture.

Imaju materijalnu kulturu, socijalnu kulturu.

They have a symbolic culture.

Imaju simboličku kulturu.

Scientists in the Taï Forests in the Ivory Coast

Znanstvenici su u šumama Taïja, u Obali Bjelokosti,

found chimpanzees who were using these rocks to smash open

pronašli čimpanze koje su koristile kamenje kako bi otvorile

the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.

nevjerojatno tvrde ljuske oraha.

It takes a long time to learn how to do that,

Potrebno je dugo vrijeme da bi se to naučilo,

and they excavated the area and they found

i prokopali su to područje i otkrili

that this material culture, this way of doing it,

da se ta materijalna kultura, taj način rada,

these rocks, had passed down for at least 4,300 years

to kamenje, prenosilo barem 4300 godina

through 225 chimpanzee generations.

kroz 225 generacija čimpanzi.

So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.

Sada smo trebali pronaći našu čimpanzu.

Our chimpanzee,

Naša čimpanza,

first we found two of them in the state of New York.

prvo smo pronašli dvije u državi New York.

Both of them would die before we could even get our suits filed.

Obje su uginule prije nego što smo uopće uspjeli podnijeti tužbe.

Then we found Tommy.

Onda smo pronašli Tommyja.

Tommy is a chimpanzee. You see him behind me.

Tommy je čimpanza. Vidite ga iza mene.

Tommy was a chimpanzee. We found him in that cage.

Tommy je bio čimpanza. Pronašli smo ga u tom kavezu.

We found him in a small room that was filled with cages

Pronašli smo ga u maloj sobi punoj kaveza

in a larger warehouse structure on a used trailer lot in central New York.

u većem skladištu na korištenoj parceli za prikolice, u centralnom New Yorku.

We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.

Pronašli smo Kikoa, koji je djelomično gluh.

Kiko was in the back of a cement storefront in western Massachusetts.

Kiko je bio u stražnjem dijelu cementne zgrade u zapadnom Massachusettsu.

And we found Hercules and Leo.

I pronašli smo Herkula i Lea

They're two young male chimpanzees

Oni su dvije mlade muške čimpanze

who are being used for biomedical, anatomical research at Stony Brook.

korištene za biomedicinska, anatomska istraživanja u Stony Brooku.

We found them.

Pronašli smo ih.

And so on the last week of December 2013,

I tako je u zadnjem tjednu prosinca 2013. godine,

the Nonhuman Rights Project filed three suits all across the state of New York

Nonhuman Rights Project podnio tri tužbe širom države New York

using the same common law writ of habeus corpus argument

koristeći se istim argumentom iz običajnopravnog naloga habeus corpus

that had been used with James Somerset,

koji je korišten u slučaju Jamesa Somerseta,

and we demanded that the judges issue these common law writs of habeus corpus.

i zahtijevali smo da suci izdaju te običajnopravne naloge habeus corpus.

We wanted the chimpanzees out,

Željeli smo čimpanze na slobodi,

and we wanted them brought to Save the Chimps,

i željeli smo da budu dovedene u Save the Chimps,

a tremendous chimpanzee sanctuary in South Florida

ogromno utočište za čimpanze u Južnoj Floridi

which involves an artificial lake with 12 or 13 islands --

koje uključuje umjetno jezero s 12 ili 13 otoka --

there are two or three acres where two dozen chimpanzees live

s tri ili četiri jutra zemlje gdje dva tuceta čimpanzi žive

on each of them.

na svakom od njih.

And these chimpanzees would then live the life of a chimpanzee,

I te čimpanze bi tada živjele životom čimpanze,

with other chimpanzees in an environment that was as close to Africa as possible.

s drugim čimpanzama u okolišu koji je sličan Africi koliko je to moguće.

Now, all these cases are still going on.

Svi ovi slučajevi još su aktualni.

We have not yet run into our Lord Mansfield.

Nismo još naletjeli na našeg lorda Mansfielda.

We shall. We shall.

Hoćemo. Hoćemo.

This is a long-term strategic litigation campaign. We shall.

Ovo je dugoročna strateška sudska kampanja. Hoćemo.

And to quote Winston Churchill,

I da citiram Winstona Churchilla,

the way we view our cases is that they're not the end,

način na koji gledamo na naše slučajeve je da oni nisu kraj,

they're not even the beginning of the end,

oni nisu čak niti početak kraja,

but they are perhaps the end of the beginning.

ali oni su možda kraj početka.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)