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譯者: Lilian Chiu
審譯者: SF Huang
00:12
The one conversation that uplifted me
more than any other in my life
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人生中最讓我振奮的一段對話,
00:18
was with a woman who told me
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是一個女人告訴我,
00:20
how, a few days earlier,
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幾天前,她如何
00:22
she drove her Jeep Wrangler
to the edge of the Grand Canyon
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開著她的吉普車到大峽谷的邊緣,
00:26
and sat there, revving the engine,
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坐在那裡,加快引擎的轉速,
00:29
thinking about driving over.
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想著開車衝下去。
00:32
Even though I had severe social anxiety,
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雖然我有過嚴重的社交焦慮症,
00:35
in that conversation,
I was totally at ease.
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在那段對談中,我非常安然自在。
00:38
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
00:39
She told me what was going on in her life
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她告訴我,她開車中去大峽谷之前,
00:42
in the days and months leading up,
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那幾個月經歷了什麼事、
00:44
what her thoughts were
at that exact moment,
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那一瞬間她的想法是什麼、
00:46
why she wanted to die,
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為什麼她想尋死,
00:48
and why she didn't do it.
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以及她為何沒有衝下去。
00:50
We nodded and half-smiled,
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我們點頭微笑著,
00:53
and then it was my turn
to talk about my journey
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接著就換我講述我的經歷了,
00:55
to a dining table
in the hygienic community area
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那是在山城醫院的心理衛生部門,
01:00
of the mental health wing
of a mountain-town hospital.
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一張公共衛生區的餐桌上。
01:04
I took too many sleeping pills,
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我吃了太多的安眠藥,
01:06
and after they treated me for that,
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院方幫我治療之後,
01:07
they were like, "Hey, we would love it
if you would be our guest
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他們說:「嘿,我們
很希望你能夠來我們的
01:13
in the psych ward."
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精神病房做客。」
01:15
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:20
We joked that her suicide
would have made a way better postcard.
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我們開玩笑說她自殺的照片
可以做成相當不錯的明信片。
01:25
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:26
We talked shop.
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我們談論本行。
01:28
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:29
She allowed me to be deeply depressed
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她容許我有深刻的憂鬱,
01:32
and have a genuine connection
to another person, simultaneously.
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同時還能和另一個人有真誠的連結。
01:37
For the first time,
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這是第一次,
01:38
I identified as somebody
living with depression,
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身為帶著憂鬱症過日子的人,
01:42
and I felt good about it --
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我卻感覺很好 ──
01:43
like I wasn't a bad person for it.
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彷彿我並不會因為它而變成壞人。
01:46
Now imagine one of the people
at that table was a member of your family
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想像一下,同桌的
其中一個人是你的家人,
01:51
or a close friend.
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或是親密的朋友。
01:53
Would you be comfortable talking to them?
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你跟他們說話時會自在嗎?
01:55
What if instead of the hospital,
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如果不是在醫院,
01:57
they were at your kitchen table
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他們是坐在你的廚房餐桌,
01:59
and told you they were really depressed?
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告訴你他們真的很憂鬱呢?
02:02
The World Health Organization
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世界衛生組織說,
02:04
says that depression is the leading cause
of ill health and disability worldwide,
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憂鬱症是造成全球民眾不健康
以及身心障礙的主要成因,
02:11
affecting 350 million people.
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有三億五千萬人深受其害。
02:14
The National Institute of Mental Health
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美國國家心理衛生研究院
02:16
reports seven percent of Americans
experiencing depression in a year.
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指出在一年中有 7% 的
美國人經歷過憂鬱症。
02:21
So depression is super common,
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所以,憂鬱症是非常普遍的,
02:23
yet in my experience,
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但依我的經驗,
02:26
most folks don't want
to talk to depressed people
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大部分的人並不想和憂鬱的人說話,
02:29
unless we pretend to be happy.
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除非我們假裝自己很快樂。
02:33
A cheerful facade is appropriate
for casual interactions.
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平常與人互動時,
做出愉快的表相才適當。
02:37
A depressed person can ask for extra syrup
in their pumpkin spice latte
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憂鬱的人可以要求在他們的
南瓜香料拿鐵中加入額外的糖漿,
02:41
without explaining that they need it
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且不用解釋為何他們需要它,
02:43
because they're trapped
in the infinite darkness of their soul
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因為他們被困在
自己靈魂的無盡黑暗中,
02:47
and they've lost all hope of escape --
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且失去了所有逃脫的希望-
02:49
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:51
again.
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再一次地。
02:52
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:55
Depression doesn't diminish
a person's desire
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憂鬱並不會減少一個人
02:58
to connect with other people,
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與他人交流的渴望,
03:00
just their ability.
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只是影響到交際能力而已。
03:02
So in spite of what you might think,
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事實跟你想的其實不太一樣,
03:05
talking to friends and family
living with depression
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和患有憂鬱症的朋友及家人說話
03:07
can be really easy and maybe even fun.
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可以是很容易、甚至是很有趣的。
03:11
Not, like, Facebook-selfie-with-Lady-Gaga-
at-an-underground-party fun --
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並不是像「在臉書上貼與女神卡卡
在地下派對中的自拍」那種有趣──
03:17
I'm talking about the kind of fun
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我在談的有趣,
03:19
where people enjoy
each other's company effortlessly.
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是人們毫不費力地享受彼此的倍伴。
03:23
Nobody feels awkward,
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沒有人覺得尷尬,
03:24
and no one accuses the sad person
of ruining the holidays.
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沒有人會指控悲傷的
那個人把假日給毀了。
03:30
Why does this chasm even exist?
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但為什麼這種隔閡會存在?
03:33
On the one side,
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在一邊,
03:35
you have people living with depression
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是有憂鬱症的人,
03:37
who may act in off-putting
or confusing ways
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他們行事的方式可能會
令人厭惡或讓人困惑,
03:40
because they're fighting
a war in their head
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因為他們腦袋中正在打一場仗,
03:43
that nobody else can see.
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這是別人都看不見的。
03:45
On the other side,
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另一邊,
03:48
the vast majority of people
look across the chasm
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是絕大部分的人望著隔閡的另一頭,
03:51
and shake their heads,
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一邊搖頭,
03:52
like, "Why you gotta be so depressed?"
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說:「你們幹嘛這麼憂鬱?」
03:56
You may recognize
a divide like this in your life.
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在你們生活中可能會看見這種隔閡。
04:01
Do you want to build a bridge across it?
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你們想要架座橋來跨越它嗎?
04:03
You may not want to build a bridge --
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你們可能不會想架座橋──
04:05
and that's a totally valid choice.
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那是個百分百合理的選擇。
04:09
Or maybe you'd like to build
a stronger connection,
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或者你想要建立比較強的連結交流,
04:12
but you have a lot
of questions and concerns.
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但你有很多的疑問和擔心的事。
04:17
You're what I might call "bridge curious."
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這種人被我稱為是「好奇的橋」。
04:20
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:24
Here are some possible reasons
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以下是一些可能的原因,
04:26
why some of you
may avoid depressed people.
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說明為什麼你們有些人
會想要避開憂鬱症的人。
04:29
You might be afraid
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你可能會害怕
04:31
that if you talk to somebody
while they're depressed,
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如果你去跟一個憂鬱症患者說話,
04:33
you're suddenly responsible
for their well-being.
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突然間你就要為他們的幸福負責了。
04:37
You're not expected to be Dr. Phil.
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並沒有人期待你成為
心理治療大師費爾醫生。
04:40
Just be friendly --
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你只要表現出友善態度就好,
04:42
more like Ellen.
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像脫口秀主持人艾倫那樣就可以。
04:43
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:47
You may worry that you won't
know what to say,
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你可能會擔心不知道要說什麼,
04:50
and every attempt
at conversation will be awkward,
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每一次嘗試交談都會很尷尬,
04:55
and the only time you'll feel comfortable
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而只有一種時候你會覺得舒適,
04:57
is when you both just give up on talking
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就是你們雙方都放棄交談,
04:59
and stare at your phones.
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盯著各自的手機看時。
05:02
Words are not the most important
thing to focus on.
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交談並非互動中最重要的東西。
05:07
You might fear seeing your shadow.
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你可能會害怕看見自己的影子。
05:12
Hey, if you have been
successfully outrunning
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嘿,如果你曾經成功地
05:15
your personal emotional demons,
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從自己的情緒惡魔手中逃脫過,
05:18
that's awesome.
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那很棒。
願你永遠一帆風順。
05:20
May the wind be at your back.
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05:22
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:23
You can be the least
woo-woo person in the world
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就算你是世上最不嗨的人,
05:27
and still connect with depressed people.
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仍可以和有憂鬱症的人連結交流。
05:30
Maybe you've heard
that depression is contagious,
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也許你聽過憂鬱會傳染,
05:33
and you're afraid of catching it.
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而你害怕會感染到。
05:35
Bring some hand sanitizer.
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那就帶一些乾洗手液。
05:37
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
05:38
You're much more likely to catch
the joy of human bonding.
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你較有可能感染到的
會是人際交流的喜悅。
05:43
Maybe you see
depressed people differently.
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也許你對憂鬱症的人有不同看法。
05:45
You think of them as flawed or defective.
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你認為他們有瑕疵或缺陷。
05:50
Multiple university studies have shown
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數篇大學研究指出,
05:53
that A students are more likely
to have bipolar condition.
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成績優秀的學生較可能有躁鬱症狀。
05:58
Our brains aren't broken or damaged,
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我們的大腦並沒有壞掉或受損,
06:01
they just work differently.
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只是運作方式不同。
06:03
I spent a lot of years thinking
happy people just don't get it.
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我一直覺得那些樂天的人就是搞不懂。
06:09
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
06:10
I did eventually stop
discriminating against happy people --
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我最後停止了歧視快樂的人──
06:14
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
06:18
I began battling depression
when I was eight,
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我從八歲時就開始對抗憂鬱症,
06:21
and decades later, to my surprise,
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數十年後,讓我很訝異的是,
06:23
I started winning.
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我開始佔上風了。
06:25
I shifted from being miserable
much of the time
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我從經常沉溺在憂傷的情緒中,
06:29
to enjoying life.
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到變成能享受人生。
06:31
I live pretty well
with my bipolar condition,
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我和我的躁鬱症狀和平相處,
06:34
and I've overcome some other
mental health conditions
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我還克服了一些其他心理健康症狀,
06:36
like overeating, addiction
and social anxiety.
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比如暴飲暴食、成癮症,
以及社交焦慮症。
06:40
So I live on both sides of this chasm.
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所以我活在這隔閡的兩邊。
06:44
And I'm offering some guidance
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我想提供一些指南,
06:49
based on my experience
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它們是以我的經驗為基礎,
06:52
to help you build a bridge across it
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能協助你們搭橋跨越這隔閡,
06:54
if you want to.
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如果你們想要的話。
06:56
It's not hard science,
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這不是硬科學,
06:58
but I worked with a lot people
I know who've lived with depression
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我和許多患有憂鬱症的人通力合作,
07:02
to refine these suggestions.
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琢磨出這些建議給大家。
07:06
First up, some things
you might want to avoid --
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首先,你會想要避免這些東西──
07:08
some "don'ts."
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一些「不該做的事」。
07:11
One of the most off-putting
things you can say is,
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最討人厭的一句話就是:
07:14
"Just get over it."
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「就克服它吧。」
07:17
Great idea -- love it,
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好主意──我喜歡,
07:19
it's just we already thought of that.
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只是我們早就想過這方法了。
07:21
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
07:28
The absence of the ability
to just get over it is depression.
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所謂的憂鬱症,
就是缺乏克服它的能力。
07:32
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
07:36
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
07:41
We feel it in our bodies --
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我們能感覺到憂鬱就在我們的體內──
07:44
it's a physical thing for us.
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它對我們來說是實體的。
07:47
And medically it's no different
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在醫學上,這就類似是
07:49
from telling someone
with a broken ankle or cancer,
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告訴一個腳踝斷裂或得癌症的人:
07:51
"just get over it."
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「就克服它吧。」
07:56
Don't be hell-bent on fixing us.
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不要固執地想要把我們治好。
07:59
Like, thank you, but ...
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我是指,謝謝你,但......
08:03
the pressure can make us depressed people
feel like we're disappointing you.
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這種壓力會讓我們這些憂鬱症的人
覺得我們好像讓你失望了。
08:08
Also, things that make
some people feel better
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而且,能讓某些人提振情緒的事物,
08:11
may not work for us.
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對我們可能沒有用。
08:13
You can't cure clinical depression
by getting ice cream ...
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你無法用冰淇淋來治癒臨床憂鬱症…
08:17
which is unfortunate, because
that would be living the dream.
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很可惜,不然對我們而言
那會是美夢成真。
08:21
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
08:25
Don't take a negative response personally.
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別人有負面反應的話,
不要覺得是在針對你。
08:31
So, I have a friend who, about a year ago,
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我有個朋友,大約一年前,
08:34
messaged me that he was really
isolated and depressed.
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傳訊息給我說他覺得被孤立、很憂鬱。
08:38
And I suggested some things for him to do,
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我建議了一些他可以做的事,
08:41
and he was like, "No, no and no."
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他的反應是:「不,不,不。」
08:43
And I got mad,
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我生氣了,
08:44
like, how dare he not embrace
my brilliant wisdom?
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心想,他算老幾,怎麼可以
不接受我聰慧的建議呢?
08:48
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
08:50
And then I remembered
times I've been depressed,
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接著我想起自己憂鬱的時候,
08:53
and how I thought I was doomed
in all possible futures,
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那時我認為未來注定只有厄運,
08:58
or everybody suddenly hated me,
and things like that.
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或是每個人都會突然討厭我之類的。
09:03
It didn't matter how many people
told me otherwise --
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不論多少人告訴我:「不會這樣的」,
09:06
I didn't believe them.
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我就是不相信他們。
09:09
So I let my friend know I cared,
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所以,我讓我的朋友知道我在乎他,
09:12
and I didn't take it personally.
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我不會把他的負面反應放在心上。
09:15
Don't let a lack of bubbly
happiness freak you out.
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不要因為沒有夢幻的幸福,
就被嚇壞了。
09:21
It's not a shark attack.
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那又不是鯊魚攻擊。
09:23
"Call the coast guard, my friend is sad!"
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「快呼叫海岸巡防員,
我朋友在悲傷了!」
09:26
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
09:28
We can be sad and OK at the same time.
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其實傷心也沒有關係的。
09:32
I'm going to say that again,
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我要再說一次,
09:34
because in our society,
we're taught the opposite,
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因為在我們的社會中,
學到完全相反的概念,
09:37
and so it's counterintuitive.
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所以覺得那是違背直覺的事。
09:40
People can be sad and OK at the same time.
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但人有傷心情緒是沒有關係的。
09:45
So some of these things may apply
to you personally, some may not.
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以上這些有的可能適用於你,
有的不適用。
09:48
Take what's useful.
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挑對你有用的。
09:50
And remember, you don't have to connect.
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切記,你不用非得與人交流。
09:55
If you want to,
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如果你想要,
09:57
here are some suggestions that may help --
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以下是一些建議,可能會有幫助──
09:59
some "dos."
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一些「該做的事」。
10:01
Talk to us in your natural voice, right?
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用你自然的聲音跟我們說話,好嗎?
10:04
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:06
You don't need to put on a sad voice
because we're depressed --
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你不用因為我們很憂鬱
就用悲傷的聲音說話。
10:12
you don't sneeze when you're talking
to somebody with a cold.
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你跟感冒的人說話時,
也不會打噴嚏吧。
10:15
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:18
It's not rude to be upbeat.
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樂觀並不是無禮。
10:20
You can be you, OK?
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你可以做自己,好嗎?
10:23
If you make an offer to be there for us,
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如果你願意為我們盡一份力,
10:26
clearly state what you can and can't do.
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那就明確說清楚你
能做什麼、不能做什麼。
10:29
I have told people,
"Hey, call or text any time,
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我曾告訴別人:
「嘿,隨時都可打電話或傳訊息給我,
10:32
but I might not be able
to get back to you that same day."
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但我可能無法在當天回覆你。」
10:36
It's totally cool to not make an offer,
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不提供任何協助也完全沒關係,
10:39
or to make a narrow offer
with really clear boundaries around it.
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或提供清楚有限的協助也可以。
10:45
Give us a sense of control.
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給我們控制感。
10:50
Like, get our consent.
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比如,取得我們的同意。
10:52
I have a friend who, a while back,
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我有個朋友,前陣子,
10:55
when I was having a depressive episode,
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我憂鬱症發作的時候,
10:57
reached out and said,
"Hey, I want to check in with you.
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她跟我說:「嘿,我想確認你沒事。
我能否每天打電話給你?
11:00
Can I call you every day?
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11:01
Maybe text you every day
and call later in the week?
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也許每天傳訊息給你,
過幾天再打電話?
11:03
What works for you?"
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怎樣做你比較方便?」
11:06
By getting my permission,
she earned my complete confidence
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因為先徵詢我的同意,
她得到了我完全的信任,
11:09
and remains one of my best friends today.
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至今仍然是我最好的朋友之一。
11:14
And my last suggestion is:
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我的最後一個建議是:
11:17
interact about not depression,
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針對「不是憂鬱症」的東西來互動,
11:20
aka, normal stuff.
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也就是,一般日常的東西。
11:22
I have a friend who,
when people were worried about him,
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我有一個朋友,那時大家很擔心他,
11:26
they would call and ask
if he wanted to go shopping
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他們會打電話問他要不要去購物,
11:29
or help them clean out their garage.
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或協助他們打掃車庫。
11:31
Your depressed friends
could be a good source of free labor --
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你的憂鬱症朋友也能成為
很好的免費勞力來源──
11:34
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
11:44
What I'm really getting at is,
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我真正想說的是,
11:47
invite them to contribute
to your life in some way,
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邀請他們跟你一起做事情,
11:52
even if it's as small
as asking you to go see a movie
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即使是很小的事,
比如找他們去看一場
11:56
that you wanted to see in the theater.
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你想要去電影院看的電影。
11:59
So that's a lot
of dos and don'ts and maybes,
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所以,那是很多的「該做」
和「不該做」和「也許」,
12:03
and it's not by any means
a definitive list.
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這份清單並不是絕對的。
12:08
The thing to remember
is that they're all grounded
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要記得的是,
它們都是基於一條指導原則。
12:10
in one guiding principle.
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12:13
It's what allowed the woman
in the Jeep Wrangler
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就是它,讓吉普車女子
12:17
to start me on the path to recovery
without even trying.
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不費吹灰之力就使我踏上復原之路。
12:21
She talked to me like I belonged
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她當時對我說話的方式,
讓我感受到真實的自己
被人重視與理解。
12:25
and contributed exactly as I was
at that moment.
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12:31
If you talk to a depressed person
as if their life is just as valuable,
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如果你和憂鬱症的人說話時,
能把他們的人生視為
12:35
intense and beautiful as yours,
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和你的一樣有價值、熱情、美麗,
12:38
then there's no need
to build a bridge between you,
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那麼你們之間根本不需要刻意搭橋,
12:42
because you've closed the chasm.
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因為你已經消除隔閡了。
12:45
Focus on that instead of your words,
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專注在這一點上,而非你所說的話,
12:51
and it may be the most uplifting
conversation of their life.
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那就有可能是他們
人生中最振奮的一段談話。
12:56
What could that do
for somebody you care about?
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這會對你所關心的人
產生什麼樣的影響?
13:00
What could it do for you?
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這能對你產生什麼樣的影響?
13:03
Thank you.
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謝謝。
13:04
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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