Michael Porter: Why business can be good at solving social problems

938,130 views ・ 2013-10-07

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譯者: Marssi Draw 審譯者: William Choi
00:12
I think we're all aware
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我想大家都意識到
00:14
that the world today is full of problems.
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現在世界上充滿了各種問題。
00:17
We've been hearing them
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我們聽到這些問題,
00:19
today and yesterday and every day for decades.
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不論是今天還是昨天, 日復一日,已長達數十年。
00:23
Serious problems, big problems, pressing problems.
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嚴重的問題、大問題、急迫的問題。
00:27
Poor nutrition, access to water,
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營養不良、水源缺乏、
00:30
climate change, deforestation,
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氣候變遷、森林砍伐、
00:33
lack of skills, insecurity, not enough food,
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技能匱乏、治安不好、食物短缺、
00:37
not enough healthcare, pollution.
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醫療照護不足和環境污染。
00:40
There's problem after problem,
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接二連三的問題,
00:41
and I think what really separates this time
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我認為真正能突顯此時此刻
00:44
from any time I can remember in my brief time
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和我有記憶以來的其它日子不同的是
00:48
on Earth is the awareness of these problems.
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人們意識到這些問題,
00:50
We're all very aware.
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我們都很清楚地意識到這些事。
00:53
Why are we having so much trouble
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那麼為什麼我們處理這些問題
00:55
dealing with these problems?
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會有那麼多麻煩?
00:57
That's the question I've been struggling with,
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這是一直以來,我嘗試用自己的不同角度
01:00
coming from my very different perspective.
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去思考解決的問題。
01:04
I'm not a social problem guy.
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我不是那種解決社會問題的人,
01:07
I'm a guy that works with business,
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我是和企業合作的人,
01:10
helps business make money.
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幫企業賺錢。
01:13
God forbid.
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老天啊。
01:16
So why are we having so many problems
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那麼為什麼我們在社會中
01:19
with these social problems,
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有這麼多問題呢?
01:23
and really is there any role for business,
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企業可擔任什麼角色嗎?
01:25
and if so, what is that role?
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可以的話那角色是什麼?
01:28
I think that in order to address that question,
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我認為要解決這個問題,
01:31
we have to step back and think about
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我們應該先往後退一步,並思考
01:35
how we've understood and pondered
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如何了解與衡量
01:39
both the problems and the solutions
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我們所面臨的重大社會挑戰
01:41
to these great social challenges that we face.
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所帶來的問題和解決辦法。
01:45
Now, I think many have seen business
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我想,現今有許多人把企業
01:48
as the problem, or at least one of the problems,
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視為問題,或者說至少是
01:50
in many of the social challenges we face.
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我們所面臨的社會挑戰中的問題之一。
01:53
You know, think of the fast food industry,
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你想想速食業、
01:55
the drug industry, the banking industry.
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藥品業和銀行業。
01:57
You know, this is a low point
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你知道,社會上普遍對
01:59
in the respect for business.
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企業毫無敬意可言。
02:02
Business is not seen as the solution.
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企業並不被視為解決方式,
02:03
It's seen as the problem now, for most people.
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對大部分人來說,企業是問題所在,
02:07
And rightly so, in many cases.
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而且在許多案例中確實如此。
02:09
There's a lot of bad actors out there
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外面有很多糟糕的企業,
02:11
that have done the wrong thing,
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做出許多錯誤決定,
02:14
that actually have made the problem worse.
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讓問題變得更嚴重。
02:15
So this perspective is perhaps justified.
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因此這個觀點也許情有可原。
02:19
How have we tended to see the solutions
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我們傾向如何解決
02:22
to these social problems,
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這些社會問題,
02:24
these many issues that we face in society?
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這些我們在社會中所面對的眾多爭議呢?
02:27
Well, we've tended to see the solutions
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一直以來,我們傾向見到出面解決的
02:29
in terms of NGOs,
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是非政府組織、
02:31
in terms of government,
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公部門
02:33
in terms of philanthropy.
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和慈善團體。
02:35
Indeed, the kind of unique organizational entity
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而確實,這類獨特的組織,
02:37
of this age is this tremendous rise of NGOs
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在這個年代崛起的是 大量的非政府組織
02:42
and social organizations.
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和社會組織。
02:45
This is a unique, new organizational form
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這是一種獨特的、新型的組織形式,
02:47
that we've seen grown up.
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是目前已發展的形式。
02:49
Enormous innovation, enormous energy,
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大幅度的革新、龐大的能源,
02:52
enormous talent now has been mobilized
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和無數有才能的人們都被動員來
02:55
through this structure
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進入這個體系,
02:57
to try to deal with all of these challenges.
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嘗試接受這些挑戰。
03:02
And many of us here are deeply involved in that.
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在座有許多人也致力於此。
03:06
I'm a business school professor,
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我是商學院的教授,
03:08
but I've actually founded, I think, now, four nonprofits.
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但其實我現在設立了四個非營利組織。
03:12
Whenever I got interested and became aware
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每當我開始關注並意識到
03:14
of a societal problem, that was what I did,
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一項社會問題時,如同我一貫的做法,
03:17
form a nonprofit.
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就是成立非營利組織。
03:19
That was the way we've thought about how to deal
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那是我們大家會想到能夠解決
03:22
with these issues.
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這些議題的方式,
03:23
Even a business school professor has thought about it that way.
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即使是商學院教授都會 往這個方向思考。
03:28
But I think at this moment,
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但我想在此時此刻,
03:30
we've been at this for quite a while.
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我們已有很長一段時間處於這種狀態,
03:33
We've been aware of these problems for decades.
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我們意議到這些問題已經好幾十年了,
03:35
We have decades of experience
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我們有數十年的經驗,
03:37
with our NGOs and with our government entities,
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透過我們的非政府組織和公部門來處理,
03:42
and there's an awkward reality.
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但是現實慘不忍睹。
03:43
The awkward reality is we're not making
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慘不忍睹的原因是我們的
03:45
fast enough progress.
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進展太慢。
03:48
We're not winning.
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我們沒能戰勝。
03:51
These problems still seem very daunting
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這些問題依舊讓人洩氣、
03:53
and very intractable,
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十分棘手,
03:54
and any solutions we're achieving
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任何我們採取的解決方式
03:57
are small solutions.
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都只能用在枝微末節上。
03:59
We're making incremental progress.
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我們只能緩慢前進。
04:02
What's the fundamental problem we have
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我們在處理這些社會問題時
04:05
in dealing with these social problems?
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所面臨的根本問題是什麼呢?
04:08
If we cut all the complexity away,
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如果無視於這些錯綜複雜的麻煩,
04:12
we have the problem of scale.
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就會發現我們的問題在於規模。
04:16
We can't scale.
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我們無法擴大規模。
04:19
We can make progress. We can show benefits.
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我們能有進展,讓你看見好處,
04:22
We can show results. We can make things better.
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能夠看得見結果,讓事情好轉。
04:25
We're helping. We're doing better. We're doing good.
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我們提供協助,做得更好、更棒。
04:29
We can't scale.
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但是我們無法擴大規模,
04:32
We can't make a large-scale impact on these problems.
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我們無法在這些問題上 造成大規模的影響。
04:37
Why is that?
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為什麼會這樣?
04:38
Because we don't have the resources.
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因為我們沒有資源,
04:42
And that's really clear now.
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而現況一目瞭然,
04:44
And that's clearer now than it's been for decades.
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現況較過往數十年更清楚。
04:47
There's simply not enough money
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問題只在於沒有足夠的錢
04:50
to deal with any of these problems at scale
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使用現今的模式
04:54
using the current model.
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來處理現當前的任何問題。
04:56
There's not enough tax revenue,
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我們沒有足夠的稅收,
04:59
there's not enough philanthropic donations,
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沒有足夠的慈善捐款,
05:03
to deal with these problems the way we're dealing with them now.
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能提供我們用目前處理 這些問題的方式來處理它們。
05:06
We've got to confront that reality.
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我們得面對現實。
05:11
And the scarcity of resources
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缺乏足夠的資源
05:14
for dealing with these problems is only growing,
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來處理這些問題的情況只會越來越多,
05:18
certainly in the advanced world today,
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尤其是現今的先進國家
05:21
with all the fiscal problems we face.
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面臨的所有財政問題。
05:26
So if it's fundamentally a resource problem,
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因此如果根本上是資源的問題,
05:30
where are the resources in society?
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那麼社會上的資源跑哪去了?
05:34
How are those resources really created,
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那些資源是怎麼產生的,
05:36
the resources we're going to need to deal
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我們需要用那些資源來處理
05:38
with all these societal challenges?
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這些社會挑戰?
05:42
Well there, I think the answer is very clear:
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我想答案很清楚:
05:45
They're in business.
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資源都在企業裡,
05:49
All wealth is actually created by business.
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事實上所有財富都是 靠企業創造出來的。
05:54
Business creates wealth
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企業創造財富,
05:57
when it meets needs at a profit.
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只要它滿足市場需求而獲利,
06:02
That's how all wealth is created.
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所有的財富都是這樣產生的。
06:04
It's meeting needs at a profit
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滿足需求而獲得利潤
06:07
that leads to taxes
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就能帶來稅金,
06:09
and that leads to incomes
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能帶來收入,
06:11
and that leads to charitable donations.
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而且也能帶來慈善捐款。
06:13
That's where all the resources come from.
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這是所有資源的來源。
06:16
Only business can actually create resources.
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只有企業可以真的創造資源,
06:19
Other institutions can utilize them
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其它組織能利用資源
06:21
to do important work,
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進行重要的工作,
06:22
but only business can create them.
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但是只有企業能夠創造資源。
06:25
And business creates them
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企業創造資源,
06:27
when it's able to meet a need at a profit.
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只要它滿足市場需求而有利可圖。
06:35
The resources are overwhelmingly
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資源毫無疑問都是
06:38
generated by business.
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由企業所創造的。
06:40
The question then is, how do we tap into this?
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隨之而來的問題是, 我們要如何運用?
06:45
How do we tap into this?
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我們要如何運用?
06:48
Business generates those resources
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當企業賺錢時,
06:50
when it makes a profit.
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就產生出那些資源。
06:55
That profit is that small difference
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那些利潤就是價格和
06:58
between the price and the cost it takes to produce
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生產所需的支出之間的細微差別,
07:03
whatever solution business has created
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不論企業創造了什麼方式來解決
07:06
to whatever problem they're trying to solve.
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他們試圖解決的問題。
07:09
But that profit is the magic.
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但是那樣的利潤就是魔法,
07:16
Why? Because that profit allows whatever solution
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為什麼呢?因為那份利潤能讓任何
07:20
we've created
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我們所創造的解決方式
07:23
to be infinitely scalable.
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變得力量無窮。
07:27
Because if we can make a profit,
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因為如果我們能獲利,
07:29
we can do it for 10, 100, a million,
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我們就能獲得十、一百、一百萬、
07:33
100 million, a billion.
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一億,甚至十億。
07:36
The solution becomes self-sustaining.
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解決方式變得能夠自己自足。
07:41
That's what business does
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當企業獲利時,
07:44
when it makes a profit.
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它就是這樣。
07:47
Now what does this all have to do
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現在我們要怎麼把它運用在
07:50
with social problems?
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社會問題上呢?
07:53
Well, one line of thinking is, let's take this profit
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你可以這樣思考,我們把利潤
07:56
and redeploy it into social problems.
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放進社會問題中。
08:01
Business should give more.
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企業應該要付出更多,
08:03
Business should be more responsible.
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企業應該要負擔更大的責任。
08:04
And that's been the path that we've been on
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那是我們一直以來在企業中
08:07
in business.
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所採取的方式。
08:09
But again, this path that we've been on
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然而同樣的,我們所採取的這個方式
08:11
is not getting us where we need to go.
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並不會把我們帶到應該要去的地方。
08:15
Now, I started out as a strategy professor,
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我以擔任策略教授起家,
08:19
and I'm still a strategy professor.
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至今仍是,
08:20
I'm proud of that.
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我以此為傲。
08:21
But I've also, over the years,
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但是幾年來我也同樣
08:23
worked more and more on social issues.
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致力於越來越多的社會議題。
08:26
I've worked on healthcare, the environment,
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我處理健康照護、環境、
08:29
economic development, reducing poverty,
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經濟發展、降低貧窮率,
08:32
and as I worked more and more in the social field,
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當我涉足社會領域越深,
08:37
I started seeing something
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我開始看見
08:38
that had a profound impact on me
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某樣東西以某種方式 深深地影響了我,
08:42
and my whole life, in a way.
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以及我的人生。
08:45
The conventional wisdom in economics
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經濟學傳統的思考模式,
08:49
and the view in business has historically been
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以及在商業中的觀點都已隨著歷史
08:53
that actually, there's a tradeoff
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變成那樣,而事實上
08:57
between social performance and economic performance.
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社會表現和經濟表現間已取得平衡。
09:02
The conventional wisdom has been
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傳統思維認為
09:03
that business actually makes a profit
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企業能夠獲利的原因其實是
09:06
by causing a social problem.
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由於它製造了社會問題,
09:08
The classic example is pollution.
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經典的例子就是污染。
09:10
If business pollutes, it makes more money
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如果企業造成污染,就會賺更多的錢,
09:13
than if it tried to reduce that pollution.
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相較於降低污染的情況。
09:18
Reducing pollution is expensive,
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降低污染是昂貴的,
09:20
therefore businesses don't want to do it.
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因此企業並不想這麼做。
09:25
It's profitable to have an unsafe working environment.
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不安全的工作環境是有利可圖的,
09:28
It's too expensive to have a safe working environment,
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要有安全的工作環境成本太高,
09:31
therefore business makes more money
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因此企業寧可賺更多錢,
09:32
if they don't have a safe working environment.
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即使他們沒有安全的工作環境。
09:34
That's been the conventional wisdom.
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這就是傳統思維。
09:38
A lot of companies have fallen into that conventional wisdom.
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有許多公司都陷入這樣的傳統思維裡,
09:40
They resisted environmental improvement.
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2543
他們抗拒改善環境,
09:43
They resisted workplace improvement.
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他們抗拒改善工作場所,
09:48
That thinking has led to, I think,
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這樣的想法會演變成,我猜,
09:52
much of the behavior
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大部分的反應
09:53
that we have come to criticize in business,
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1936
會出現在對企業的批評,
09:55
that I come to criticize in business.
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變成了我對企業的批評。
09:58
But the more deeply I got into all these social issues,
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但是當我越深入這些社會議題,
10:01
one after another,
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一個接一個,
10:04
and actually, the more I tried to address them
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實際上,當我嘗試
10:07
myself, personally, in a few cases,
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親自解決更多案例,
10:09
through nonprofits that I was involved with,
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2729
透過我參與的非營利組織,
10:12
the more I found actually that the reality
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其實就會發現越多與事實
10:15
is the opposite.
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相反的情況。
10:17
Business does not profit
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企業的利潤
10:18
from causing social problems,
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1702
並不是從製造社會問題中獲得,
10:20
actually not in any fundamental sense.
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事實上完全不是這回事。
10:24
That's a very simplistic view.
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那是非常簡化的觀點。
10:27
The deeper we get into these issues,
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2708
當我越深入探究這些議題,
10:29
the more we start to understand
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1845
我就越能了解
10:31
that actually business profits
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1901
實際上企業的利潤
10:33
from solving from social problems.
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633612
1996
是從解決社會問題中獲得。
10:35
That's where the real profit comes.
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那才是真正的利潤來源。
10:38
Let's take pollution.
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以污染的問題來說吧,
10:40
We've learned today that actually
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2216
我們可以從當今的情況中發現,其實
10:43
reducing pollution and emissions
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643209
2407
減少污染源
10:45
is generating profit.
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3506
就能獲利,
10:49
It saves money.
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2068
能夠省錢。
10:51
It makes the business more productive and efficient.
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1698
能讓企業生產更多、更有效率,
10:52
It doesn't waste resources.
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1397
而且不會浪費資源。
10:54
Having a safer working environment actually,
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654285
2643
其實還能有更安全的工作環境,
10:56
and avoiding accidents,
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656928
1488
避免意外發生,
10:58
it makes the business more profitable,
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1372
讓企業更容易獲利,
10:59
because it's a sign of good processes.
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因為這是良好流程的證明。
11:02
Accidents are expensive and costly.
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4031
發生意外要花很多錢,代價很高。
11:07
Issue by issue by issue, we start to learn
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2604
接二連三的問題讓我們開始學習,
11:09
that actually there's no trade-off
225
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2966
其實並沒有所謂的平衡
11:12
between social progress
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存在於社會進步
11:16
and economic efficiency
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3001
和經濟效率之間,
11:19
in any fundamental sense.
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2093
不論是從哪個基礎觀點來看。
11:21
Another issue is health.
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1359
另一項議題是健康,
11:22
I mean, what we've found is actually
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我的意思是,其實我們發現
11:25
health of employees is something
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685215
1882
員工的健康
11:27
that business should treasure,
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應該是企業要珍惜的一項資產,
11:28
because that health allows those employees
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因為員工身體健康就能
11:30
to be more productive and come to work
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1409
更有生產力,就會來上班,
11:32
and not be absent.
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不請假。
11:34
The deeper work, the new work, the new thinking
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3424
更深入的工作、新的工作和新的思維
11:37
on the interface between business and social problems
237
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存在企業和社會問題之間,
11:42
is actually showing that there's a fundamental,
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2918
事實上這顯示了有一種重要、
11:45
deep synergy,
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1919
密切的合作,
11:46
particularly if you're not thinking in the very short run.
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3928
尤其是當你並不是從短期來思考。
11:50
In the very short run, you can sometimes
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1838
從短期來看,有時候你可以
11:52
fool yourself into thinking
242
712754
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騙自己
11:54
that there's fundamentally opposing goals,
243
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2295
有一項重要的相反目標,
11:57
but in the long run, ultimately, we're learning
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2813
但是以長期來看,最終我們會
11:59
in field after field that this is simply not true.
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4196
在不同領域中學到,這並非事實。
12:04
So how could we tap into
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3290
因此,我們要怎麼運用
12:07
the power of business
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2722
企業的力量
12:10
to address the fundamental problems
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2203
來解決我們當前所面臨的
12:12
that we face?
249
732374
2433
根本問題?
12:14
Imagine if we could do that, because if we could do it,
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2600
想像也許我們可以這麼做, 因為如果可以的話,
12:17
we could scale.
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我們就能全面運用了。
12:19
We could tap into this enormous resource pool
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2409
我們可以運用無盡資源,
12:21
and this organizational capacity.
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2898
以及這個組織的能力。
12:24
And guess what? That's happening now, finally,
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你猜結果如何?現在終於成真了。
12:30
partly because of people like you
255
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4013
有一部分是因為大家,像你一樣的人
12:34
who have raised these issues now
256
754257
1948
他們早已提出當前的這些問題,
12:36
for year after year and decade after decade.
257
756205
3115
日復一日,年復一年。
12:39
We see organizations like Dow Chemical
258
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2408
我們看見一些組織,像是陶氏化學 (Dow Chemical)
12:41
leading the revolution away from trans fat
259
761728
1918
引領革命遠離反式脂肪和飽和脂肪,
12:43
and saturated fat with innovative new products.
260
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3132
並且開發創新產品。
12:46
This is an example of Jain Irrigation.
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1953
這是耆那灌溉系統 (Jain Irrigation) 的例子。
12:48
This is a company that's brought drip irrigation technology
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2551
這間公司引進滴灌技術
12:51
to thousands and millions of farmers,
263
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2669
給成千上萬的農民使用,
12:53
reducing substantially the use of water.
264
773951
3051
能夠有效地節省用水。
12:57
We see companies like the Brazilian forestry company Fibria
265
777002
3321
我們看到像是巴西的 菲普利亞 (Fibria) 林業公司,
13:00
that's figured out how to avoid
266
780323
1483
設計出避免
13:01
tearing down old growth forest
267
781806
1879
摧毀原始樹林、
13:03
and using eucalyptus and getting much more yield
268
783685
2776
使用桉樹和儘可能
13:06
per hectare of pulp
269
786461
1990
讓每公頃生產更多的紙漿、
13:08
and making much more paper than you could make
270
788451
1968
製作更多紙張的方式,產量遠多於
13:10
by cutting down those old trees.
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2109
砍伐那些老樹來生產。
13:12
You see companies like Cisco that are training
272
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2880
你可以看到像思科這樣的公司
13:15
so far four million people in I.T. skills
273
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4156
到目前為止已經訓練了 四百萬人學習運用資訊科技,
13:19
to actually, yes, be responsible,
274
799564
1943
能夠真正的負責,
13:21
but help expand the opportunity
275
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2431
並且協助擴展機會來
13:23
to disseminate I.T. technology
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2273
傳播資訊科技,
13:26
and grow the whole business.
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1302
發展整個區域的商業。
13:27
There's a fundamental opportunity for business today
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4621
現在有許多重要的機會讓企業
13:32
to impact and address these social problems,
279
812134
4056
可以影響、解決這些社會問題,
13:36
and this opportunity
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816190
1324
而這個機會
13:37
is the largest business opportunity
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3268
是我們在商業中見到
13:40
we see in business.
282
820782
3666
最大的商機。
13:44
And the question is, how can we get business
283
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2206
問題是,我們要怎麼讓
13:46
thinking to adapt this issue of shared value?
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3428
企業的思維改變為認同 這個共享價值 (shared value)?
13:50
This is what I call shared value:
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1809
我稱為共享價值的是:
13:51
addressing a social issue with a business model.
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3755
用商業模式來解決社會問題。
13:55
That's shared value.
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1924
那就是共享價值。
13:57
Shared value is capitalism,
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1829
共享價值就是資本主義,
13:59
but it's a higher kind of capitalism.
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2562
但那是更高層次的資本主義。
14:01
It's capitalism as it was ultimately meant to be,
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3360
這個資本主義的終極目標是
14:05
meeting important needs,
291
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3413
滿足重要需求,
14:08
not incrementally competing for
292
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2823
而非不斷地競爭
14:11
trivial differences in product attributes
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3263
只有細微差異的產品
14:14
and market share.
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1733
和市場佔有率。
14:16
Shared value is when we can create social value
295
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2219
共享價值即是我們能夠 同步地建立社會價值
14:18
and economic value simultaneously.
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2603
和經濟價值。
14:21
It's finding those opportunities
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2510
找尋這些機會
14:23
that will unleash the greatest possibility we have
298
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3065
就能釋放我們所擁有的最大機會,
14:26
to actually address these social problems
299
866950
1991
來真正地解決這些社會問題,
14:28
because we can scale.
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2033
因為我們能夠大規模運作。
14:30
We can address shared value at multiple levels.
301
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3556
我們能夠在各種層級上運用共享價值。
14:34
It's real. It's happening.
302
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3165
這是真的,也正在發生。
14:37
But in order to get this solution working,
303
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2893
但是為了讓這個解決方式實現,
14:40
we have to now change how business sees itself,
304
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4128
我們必須讓企業改變看待自身的方式,
14:44
and this is thankfully underway.
305
884716
2514
讓人欣慰的是這件事正在發生。
14:47
Businesses got trapped into the conventional wisdom
306
887230
3476
企業過去陷於傳統思維,
14:50
that they shouldn't worry about social problems,
307
890706
1848
認為他們不該操心社會問題,
14:52
that this was sort of something on the side,
308
892554
2042
就像某些東西放在一旁,
14:54
that somebody else was doing it.
309
894596
2581
別人會去做。
14:57
We're now seeing companies
310
897177
1576
現在,我們可以見到許多公司
14:58
embrace this idea.
311
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2476
接受這個想法。
15:01
But we also have to recognize business
312
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2189
但是我們也必須承認企業
15:03
is not going to do this as effectively
313
903418
2744
不會投入太多的資源,
15:06
as if we have NGOs and government
314
906162
1860
如同非政府組織或是公部門
15:08
working in partnership with business.
315
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3031
和企業建立夥伴關係那樣積極。
15:11
The new NGOs that are really moving the needle
316
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3008
新興非政府組織中真正造成重大影響的,
15:14
are the ones that have found these partnerships,
317
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2183
就是那些已發起了這種夥伴關係,
15:16
that have found these ways to collaborate.
318
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1817
找到了這種合作形式的組織。
15:18
The governments that are making the most progress
319
918061
2473
各級政府中進展最快的
15:20
are the governments that have found ways
320
920534
1614
就是那些已找到方法
15:22
to enable shared value in business
321
922148
3651
促使企業採納共享價值,
15:25
rather than see government as the only player
322
925799
3121
而非只是政府部門單打獨鬥,
15:28
that has to call the shots.
323
928920
3014
孤軍奮戰。
15:31
And government has many ways in which it could impact
324
931934
2472
政府有許多方式能影響
15:34
the willingness and the ability of companies
325
934406
2314
公司的意願和能力,
15:36
to compete in this way.
326
936720
1994
讓它們用這個方式完成目標。
15:38
I think if we can get business seeing itself differently,
327
938714
2949
我認為如果我們可以 讓企業用不同的方式看自己,
15:41
and if we can get others seeing business differently,
328
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2543
如果我們可以讓大家 用不同的方式看企業,
15:44
we can change the world.
329
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2805
我們就能改變世界。
15:47
I know it. I'm seeing it.
330
947011
3205
我相信,也樂觀其成。
15:50
I'm feeling it.
331
950216
1950
我感覺得到。
15:52
Young people, I think,
332
952166
1695
年輕人,我想
15:53
my Harvard Business School students, are getting it.
333
953861
3180
我在哈佛商學院就讀的學生都了解。
15:57
If we can break down this sort of divide,
334
957041
4322
如果我們可以打破這道藩籬,
16:01
this unease, this tension,
335
961363
3010
這種讓人不安、緊張的關係,
16:04
this sense that we're not
336
964373
1930
我們的本意並非
16:06
fundamentally collaborating here
337
966303
2240
在此合作
16:08
in driving these social problems,
338
968543
2350
來製造社會問題,
16:10
we can break this down,
339
970893
2104
我們可以破除這個思維,
16:12
and we finally, I think,
340
972997
2000
最終,我們
16:14
can have solutions.
341
974997
2632
就能擁有解決方式。
16:17
Thank you.
342
977629
2800
謝謝!
16:20
(Applause)
343
980429
2722
(掌聲)
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