Life at 30,000 feet | Richard Branson

翻译人员: Wang Qian 校对人员: Liqiu Qiao

Chris Anderson: Welcome to TED.

克里斯安德森（克）：欢迎来到TED

Richard Branson: Thank you very much. The first TED has been great.

理查德布兰森（理）：十分感谢。TED第一次活动举办的持分成功

CA: Have you met anyone interesting?

克：那次活动你碰到什么有趣的人了吗？

RB: Well, the nice thing about TED is everybody's interesting.

理：这个嘛，TED绝妙的一点就是所有人都很有趣

I was very glad to see Goldie Hawn,

见到戈尔迪霍恩（美国女星）我很开心

because I had an apology to make to her.

因为我得向她道歉

I'd had dinner with her about two years ago and I'd --

大约两年前我有幸跟她共进晚餐，但是…

she had this big wedding ring and I put it on my finger and I couldn't get it off.

她有一个很大的结婚戒指，我戴在自己手上一试，结果摘不下来了

And I went home to my wife that night

晚上我回到家，见到我妻子

and she wanted to know why I had another woman's big,

她想知道为何我手上有另一个女人硕大…

massive, big wedding ring on my finger.

无比的结婚戒指

And, anyway, the next morning we had to go along to the jeweler

不管怎么样，第二天我们不得不去珠宝商那儿

and get it cut off.

把戒指切下来

So -- (Laughter) --

所以，（笑）

so apologies to Goldie.

对不起，戈尔迪

CA: That's pretty good.

克：很有意思的故事

So, we're going to put up some slides

现在我们放几张幻灯片

of some of your companies here.

是有关你的几家公司的

You've started one or two in your time.

当年你只开了一两家

So, you know, Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Records --

就是维珍航空和维珍唱片

I guess it all started with a magazine called Student.

我听说这一切都是从一本名为《学生》的杂志开始的

And then, yes, all these other ones as well. I mean, how do you do this?

后来发展到今天的一切。我想问的是，你是怎么做到的？

RB: I read all these sort of TED instructions:

理：我读了TED演讲指南--

you must not talk about your own business, and this,

上面说不能谈自己生意上的事，

and now you ask me.

现在你道来问我

So I suppose you're not going to be able to kick me off the stage,

要是我回答，你应该不会把我赶下台吧

since you asked the question.

既然你问了

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: It depends what the answer is though.

克：那就要看你怎么回答了

RB: No, I mean, I think I learned early on that if you can run one company,

理：不，我的意思是，我早年学到要是你能开一家公司

you can really run any companies.

你就可以开任何公司

I mean, companies are all about finding the right people,

我的意思是，开公司关键就是要找到合适的人

inspiring those people, you know, drawing out the best in people.

激发他们，要知道，就是是他们发挥各自的最佳优势

And I just love learning and I'm incredibly inquisitive

而且，我乐于学习，还很不耻下问

and I love taking on, you know, the status quo

要知道我很喜欢了解现状

and trying to turn it upside down.

喜欢尝试翻天覆地

So I've seen life as one long learning process.

所以生活对我来说是一种学习过程

And if I see -- you know, if I fly on somebody else's airline

要知道，要是那天我坐在别人的航班上

and find the experience is not a pleasant one, which it wasn't,

感觉不怎么自在，也就是--

21 years ago, then I'd think, well, you know, maybe I can create

21年前，我当时想，没准儿我能

the kind of airline that I'd like to fly on.

创造一家让人自在的航空公司

And so, you know, so got one secondhand 747 from Boeing and gave it a go.

后来，我买了架二手波音747，小试一把

CA: Well, that was a bizarre thing,

克：还真是怪事一桩

because you made this move that a lot of people advised you was crazy.

你这一举动下的你的顾问们以为你精神失常

And in fact, in a way, it almost took down your empire at one point.

事实上，这一举动差点毁掉你半边江山

I had a conversation with one of the investment bankers who,

一次我和一个投资银行家聊天

at the time when you basically sold Virgin Records

那时候，你基本已经出卖维珍唱片

and invested heavily in Virgin Atlantic,

重点投资维珍航空

and his view was that you were trading, you know,

那银行家觉得

the world's fourth biggest record company

用世界上第四大唱片公司

for the twenty-fifth biggest airline and that you were out of your mind.

去换排名仅25位的航空公司，你肯定脑子出问题了

Why did you do that?

你为什么会那样做？

RB: Well, I think that there's a very thin dividing line between success and failure.

理：这个嘛，我觉得成败仅一线之隔

And I think if you start a business without financial backing,

而且，组建公司要没雄厚的资金保障

you're likely to go the wrong side of that dividing line.

你很可能会被推向失败一边

We had -- we were being attacked by British Airways.

我们当时正遭到英国航空的排挤

They were trying to put our airline out of business,

他们想让我们倒闭

and they launched what's become known as the dirty tricks campaign.

他们运用了被称为”三流手段宣传攻势“

And I realized that the whole empire was likely to come crashing down

当时，我意识到，我的帝国很可能会毁于一旦

unless I chipped in a chip.

除非我另辟蹊径

And in order to protect the jobs of the people who worked for the airline,

为了保住航空公司员工们的饭碗

and protect the jobs of the people who worked for the record company,

同时保住唱片公司员工的饭碗

I had to sell the family jewelry to protect the airline.

我就不得不顾全大局变卖维珍唱片

CA: Post-Napster, you're looking like a bit of a genius, actually,

克：后Napster（一种在线音乐服务）时代作风，此举还真是

for that as well.

天才

RB: Yeah, as it turned out, it proved to be the right move.

理：是啊，现在看来这可真是明智之举

But, yeah, it was sad at the time, but we moved on.

但当时可是挺伤心的，但我们的步伐并未因此而停歇

CA: Now, you use the Virgin brand a lot

克：现在你的维珍品牌涉及范围还挺广泛的

and it seems like you're getting synergy from one thing to the other.

貌似你在自己的各个企业合并产生的协同合作中受益不小啊

What does the brand stand for in your head?

在你心中维珍品牌代表的是什么呢？

RB: Well, I like to think it stands for quality,

理：我觉得维珍就是品质的代言

that you know, if somebody comes across a Virgin company, they --

要知道，如果有人恰巧看到维珍旗下的一家公司，他们会--

CA: They are quality, Richard. Come on now, everyone says quality. Spirit?

克：维珍就是品质，理查德，行行好，人人都说品质--是企业精神？

RB: No, but I was going to move on this.

理：不是的，我马上就会谈到这一点

We have a lot of fun and I think the people who work for it enjoy it.

我们的工作中种满乐子，我觉得员工还是相当乐在其中的

As I say, we go in and shake up other industries,

我们，就像我说的一样,一入行就振动了其他行业

and I think, you know, we do it differently

并且我认为，要知道，我们的手法还是很与众不同的

and I think that industries are not quite the same

这些行业从此开始发生改变

as a result of Virgin attacking the market.

因为维珍进军他们的市场

CA: I mean, there are a few launches you've done

克：我的意思是，你创立的公司有没有--

where the brand maybe hasn't worked quite as well.

运营情况不佳的

I mean, Virgin Brides -- what happened there?

比如，维珍新娘--它的现状怎么解释？

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: We couldn't find any customers.

理：我们压根就找不到顾客

(Laughter)

（笑）

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

CA: I was actually also curious why --

克：我很好奇的是--

I think you missed an opportunity with your condoms launch. You called it Mates.

我就得你错失了一次向安全套行业进军的机会--你曾将其命名为“伴侣”（Mates）

I mean, couldn't you have used the Virgin brand for that as well?

我是说，你为啥不把它也划入维珍名下呢？

Ain't virgin no longer, or something.

这产品的消费群体不能算处子之身（维珍virgin意为处子之身）吗？

RB: Again, we may have had problems finding customers.

理：同样，这样做我们就会很难有人光顾啦

I mean, we had -- often, when you launch a company and you get customer complaints,

我是说，我们曾经刚开业时老是收到顾客的抱怨

you know, you can deal with them.

这个还是可以应付得了的

But about three months after the launch of the condom company,

但安全套公司运营三个月后

I had a letter, a complaint,

我们收到一封信，一封投诉信

and I sat down and wrote a long letter back to this lady apologizing profusely.

后来，我坐下来写了一封很长的信并向这位女士致以最诚挚的歉意

But obviously, there wasn't a lot I could do about it.

但很明显，除此以外我也做不了什么

And then six months later, or nine months after the problem had taken,

问题出现的六个月后，也许是九个月后

I got this delightful letter with a picture of the baby

我收到一封很令人愉快的回信，信上附了一张婴儿的照片

asking if I'd be godfather, which I became.

询问我是否愿意做着孩子的教父，我欣然答应

So, it all worked out well.

所以事情进展的还算顺利

CA: Really? You should have brought a picture. That's wonderful.

克：真的？你真应该带张照片的。这真是棒极了

RB: I should have.

理：我是应该带照片来的

CA: So, just help us with some of the numbers.

克：帮我们做做下面的数学题吧

I mean, what are the numbers on this?

这数字是？

I mean, how big is the group overall?

着整个集团到底有多大？

How much -- what's the total revenue?

盈利额是多少呢？

RB: It's about 25 billion dollars now, in total.

理：现在大概250亿吧

CA: And how many employees?

克：有多少员工呢？

RB: About 55,000.

理：大约5万5千人

CA: So, you've been photographed in various ways at various times

克：不同场合下你上镜无数

and never worrying about putting your dignity on the line or anything like that.

有没有想过让自己看上去体面些

What was that? Was that real?

这是怎么回事？是真的吗？

RB: Yeah. We were launching a megastore in Los Angeles, I think.

理：千真万确。我们在洛杉矶开了一家超级店铺

No, I mean, I think --

不，我想--

CA: But is that your hair?

克：那你的头发是怎么回事？

RB: No.

理：不

CA: What was that one?

克：那是怎么回事？

RB: Dropping in for tea.

临时去喝茶

CA: OK.

克：好吧

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: Ah, that was quite fun. That was a wonderful car-boat in which --

克：挺有意思的。那个有趣的车船里--

CA: Oh, that car that we -- actually we --

理：噢，那部车--事实上--我们

it was a TEDster event there, I think.

那是一次TED活动

Is that -- could you still pause on that one actually, for a minute?

那个不会是--你能在哪掌上多停留几秒吗？

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: It's a tough job, isn't it?

理：其实挺难得，不是吗？

CA: I mean, it is a tough job.

克：的确是一项挺难的事儿的

(Laughter)

（笑）

When I first came to America, I used to try this with employees as well

我第一次来美国时，我还跟员工们一起试过呢

and they kind of -- they have these different rules over here,

他们，他们的规矩和这个有点不同

it's very strange.

挺奇怪的

RB: I know, I have -- the lawyers say you mustn't do things like that, but --

理：是啊，我的律师告诉我别这么干，但是--

CA: I mean, speaking of which, tell us about --

克：跟大家所说--

RB: "Pammy" we launched, you know --

理：我们推出的帕米（Pammy）

mistakenly thought we could take on Coca-Cola,

原本错以为可以击败可口可乐

and we launched a cola bottle called "The Pammy"

我们推出的瓶装碳酸饮料叫帕米

and it was shaped a bit like Pamela Anderson.

瓶体形状有点像帕米拉安德森（美国艳星）

But the trouble is, it kept on tipping over, but --

但问题是瓶体上半部分太重，老是倒，但--

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: Designed by Philippe Starck perhaps?

克：搞不好是菲利普斯塔克（著名法设计师）设计的？

RB: Of course.

理：当然是啦

CA: So, we'll just run a couple more pictures here. Virgin Brides. Very nice.

克：我们再看多几张图片。维珍新娘。很不错

And, OK, so stop there. This was -- you had some award I think?

好的，这张。我猜这是什么奖吧？

RB: Yeah, well, 25 years earlier, we'd launched the Sex Pistols'

理：是的，25年前我们本可以推出性手枪（Sex Pistols为英国朋克乐队）

"God Save The Queen," and I'd certainly never expected

”天佑吾王“，我怎么也不会料想到

that 25 years later -- that she'd actually knight us.

25年后女王竟然授予我爵士头衔

But somehow, she must have had a forgetful memory, I think.

不过她一定记性不太好，我觉得

CA: Well, God saved her and you got your just reward.

克：天佑女王而且你得到了奖励

Do you like to be called Sir Richard, or how?

你喜欢被叫做理查德爵士吗？

RB: Nobody's ever called me Sir Richard.

理：压根没人那么叫我

Occasionally in America, I hear people saying Sir Richard

在美国偶尔会有人那样叫

and think there's some Shakespearean play taking place.

不过是在莎翁舞台剧里罢了

But nowhere else anyway.

仅此一处

CA: OK. So can you use your knighthood for anything or is it just ...

克：好吧，你的头衔能给你捞到任何好处吗，还是仅仅…

RB: No. I suppose if you're having problems

理：没有，我猜当你你有困难的时候

getting a booking in a restaurant or something,

预订餐厅有麻烦还是别的什么

that might be worth using it.

倒值得一试

CA: You know, it's not Richard Branson. It's Sir Richard Branson.

克：要知道，这可不是理查德布兰森，是理查德布兰森爵士

RB: I'll go get the secretary to use it.

理：我会让我的秘书适应这叫法儿的

CA: OK. So let's look at the space thing.

克：好的，再来看看空间开发吧

I think, with us, we've got a video that shows what you're up to,

我觉得，有个视频，可以告诉我们你下步想干什么

and Virgin Galactic up in the air. (Video)

把维珍星际射向宇宙

So that's the Bert Rutan designed spaceship?

是伯特鲁坦（美国航天工程师）设计的飞船吗？

RB: Yeah, it'll be ready in -- well, ready in 12 months

理：是啊，再过个12个月，就可以准备升空了

and then we do 12 months extensive testing.

接下来再做12个月的高强度的试飞

And then 24 months from now,

就是说再过24个月

people will be able to take a ride into space.

人们就可以遨游太空了

CA: So this interior is Philippe Starcke designed?

克：那么室内装潢是菲利普斯塔克承包的吗？

RB: Philippe has done the -- yeah, quite a bit of it:

理：菲利普设计了一部分，相当一部分

the logos and he's building the space station in New Mexico.

标志是他设计的，现在他在新墨西哥州建发射中心

And basically, he's just taken an eye

基本上他的想法是一只眼

and the space station will be one giant eye,

发射中心是一只巨眼

so when you're in space,

所以，在太空中，

you ought to be able to see this massive eye looking up at you.

你就会看见一只巨眼望着你

And when you land, you'll be able to go back into this giant eye.

着陆时，你又会回到这只巨眼中

But he's an absolute genius when it comes to design.

设计上他可是一绝

CA: But you didn't have him design the engine?

克：但你可没让他设计引擎啊？

RB: Philippe is quite erratic,

理：菲利普有很多鬼点子

so I think that he wouldn't be the best person to design the engine, no.

所以我觉得他不是设计引擎的最佳人选

CA: He gave a wonderful talk here two days ago.

克：两天前菲利普给我们精彩演讲一番

RB: Yeah? No, he is a --

理：真的。不会的，他是个--

CA: Well, some people found it wonderful,

克：有人觉得讲的很好

some people found it completely bizarre.

有人觉得很怪异

But, I personally found it wonderful.

但，就我个人而言，我很欣赏

RB: He's a wonderful enthusiast, which is why I love him. But ...

理：他是个妙不可言、充满激情的人，我很欣赏他。但--

CA: So, now, you've always had this exploration bug in you.

克：那么，你现在老有星际探索的念头

Have you ever regretted that?

你后悔过吗？

RB: Many times.

理：数不胜数

I mean, I think with the ballooning and boating expeditions we've done in the past.

我的意思是，以前的热气球啊、船啊之类的探险人们都做过了

Well, I got pulled out of the sea I think six times by helicopters, so --

我6次都去坐海上直升飞机，所以--

and each time, I didn't expect to come home to tell the tale.

每次我都没想能回家，能讲讲这经历

So in those moments,

在那些命悬一线之际

you certainly wonder what you're doing up there or --

你都会想自己在这儿干什么…

CA: What was the closest you got to --

克：你最惊险的经历是什么？

when did you think, this is it, I might be on my way out?

你觉得是哪次？我可能会不再

RB: Well, I think the balloon adventures were -- each one was,

理：我觉得热气球探险，次次都是--

each one, actually, I think we came close.

每次，实际上，我们都挺悬的

And, I mean, first of all we --

首先，我们--

nobody had actually crossed the Atlantic in a hot air balloon before,

以前从来没人坐热气球横跨大西洋

so we had to build a hot air balloon that was capable of flying in the jet stream,

我已我们必须设计出适应高速气流的热气球

and we weren't quite sure,

我们自己也是疑虑重重

when a balloon actually got into the jet stream,

当气球行驶在高速气流中时

whether it would actually survive the 200, 220 miles an hour winds that you can find up there.

它能否挺过时速200220里的高空气流

And so, just the initial lift off from Sugarloaf to cross the Atlantic,

所以，当气球从巴西甜面包山起飞要横越大西洋时

as we were pushing into the jet stream, this enormous balloon --

就在上升到高速气流区时，那个巨大的气球--

the top of the balloon ended up going at a couple of hundred miles an hour,

结果气球顶端能达到时速两百来里

the capsule that we were in at the bottom was going at maybe two miles an hour,

底部的航天藏却只有大概时速2里

and it just took off.

这还仅仅是起飞呢

And it was like holding onto a thousand horses.

它就像栓了上千匹马

And we were just crossing every finger,

我么当时祈求天赐好运

praying that the balloon would hold together, which, fortunately, it did.

祈祷气球别散架儿，幸运的是，的确没有

But the ends of all those balloon trips were, you know --

但每次气球探险的结果，要知道--

something seemed to go wrong every time,

老是出差错

and on that particular occasion, the more experienced balloonist who was with me

每次出航，跟我一起驾驶气球的的老手

jumped, and left me holding on for dear life.

此次都会跳伞，弃我自生自灭

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: Did he tell you to jump, or he just said, "I'm out of here!" and ...

克：那人会让你也跳伞还是就直说”我呆不下啦“

RB: No, he told me jump, but once his weight had gone,

理：不，他告诉我跳伞，但是一旦他挑出舱外，给飞船减负

the balloon just shot up to 12,000 feet and I ...

气球就直窜1万2千米高空

CA: And you inspired an Ian McEwan novel I think with that.

克：你的冒险给了伊恩麦克伊旺（英国作家）灵感

RB: Yeah. No, I put on my oxygen mask and stood on top of the balloon,

里：对，不是的，我带上氧气面罩站在气球顶端

with my parachute, looking at the swirling clouds below,

背上背着降落伞，低头看着脚下的漩涡一般的云

trying to pluck up my courage to jump into the North Sea, which --

我想鼓起勇气一头跳进北海--

and it was a very, very, very lonely few moments.

那一刻真的是太太孤单了

But, anyway, we managed to survive it.

但不管怎么说，我们还是活下来了

CA: Did you jump? Or it came down in the end?

克：你跳了吗，还是气球最后着陆了？

RB: Well, I knew I had about half an hour's fuel left,

理：当时我知道还有够半小时飞行的燃料

and I also knew that the chances were that if I jumped,

我也知道要是我跳的话

I would only have a couple of minutes of life left.

我也就只能再多活几分钟

So I climbed back into the capsule and just desperately tried

所以我又回到驾驶舱，绝望地试着

to make sure that I was making the right decision.

让自己相信这个选择是正确的

And wrote some notes to my family. And then climbed back up again,

我给家人写了几张纸条，然后又爬回舱外

looked down at those clouds again,

低头看着云朵

climbed back into the capsule again.

接着又回到驾驶舱

And then finally, just thought, there's a better way.

终于想到，还有一个更好的方法

I've got, you know, this enormous balloon above me,

要知道，我头上有这么一个硕大的气球

it's the biggest parachute ever, why not use it?

这可是有史以来最大的降落伞，为什么白白浪费呢?

And so I managed to fly the balloon down through the clouds,

所以我就试着穿过云层用气球着陆

and about 50 feet, before I hit the sea, threw myself over.

当降落到距海面50尺的时候我就跳下去了

And the balloon hit the sea

气球也撞击到海面上了

and went shooting back up to 10,000 feet without me.

然后弹回到空中高达1万尺，不过我可没在气球上

But it was a wonderful feeling being in that water and --

不过泡在海里的感觉还挺好的--

CA: What did you write to your family?

克：给家人的纸条上写的是什么？

RB: Just what you would do in a situation like that:

理：不过是人人都会在那种情况下写的东西

just I love you very much. And

我很爱你们，还有--

I'd already written them a letter before going on this trip, which --

我在出发前就已经写给他们一封信

just in case anything had happened.

以防万一

But fortunately, they never had to use it.

不过万幸的是他们至今还没机会拆开看

CA: Your companies have had incredible PR value out of these heroics.

克：你的公司的公关部门可是很看重这种英雄式的冒险精神啊

The years -- and until I stopped looking at the polls,

这些年来--直到我最后一次看民意调查

you were sort of regarded as this great hero in the U.K. and elsewhere.

在英国国内外，你可算得上大英雄

And cynics might say, you know, this is just a smart business guy

那些愤世嫉俗的家伙会说你不过是个很有商业头脑的人

doing what it takes to execute his particular style of marketing.

你市场营销的手段罢了的所作所为不过是

How much was the PR value part of this?

这其中的公关成分有多大呢？

RB: Well, of course, the PR experts said that as an airline owner,

理：当然了，公关专家会说作为航空公司的拥有者

the last thing you should be doing is heading off in balloons and boats,

最不该做的事莫过于跑到热气球啊，船啊什么上去冒险

and crashing into the seas.

还一头栽到海里

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: They have a point, Richard.

克：他们说的没错，理查德

RB: In fact, I think our airline took a full page ad at the time saying,

理：实际上，我们当时买下杂志的一整页做广告

you know, come on, Richard,

要知道，的了吧，理查德

there are better ways of crossing the Atlantic.

要想横跨大西洋，选个好点的法子吧

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: To do all this,

克：要做到这些

you must have been a genius from the get-go, right?

你可得是个大天才，没错吧？

RB: Well, I won't contradict that.

理：我不会否定这说法

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: OK, this isn't exactly hardball. OK.

克：好吧，我们这儿可不是硬球节目，好吧

Didn't -- weren't you just terrible at school?

克：你当年是不是--是不是学习成绩不太理想

RB: I was dyslexic. I had no understanding of schoolwork whatsoever.

理：我当年有阅读困难症，我压根不懂学习上的玩意儿

I certainly would have failed IQ tests.

我的智商测验成绩准很低

And it was one of the reasons I left school when I was 15 years old.

也许是因为这个我15岁就辍学了

And if I -- if I'm not interested in something, I don't grasp it.

要是--要是我对什么没兴趣，我肯定学不到什么东西

As somebody who's dyslexic,

对于一个有阅读困难的人来说

you also have some quite bizarre situations.

这情况还是挺奇怪的

I mean, for instance, I've had to -- you know,

我的意思是，比如，我不得不

I've been running the largest group of private companies in Europe,

我一直以来在运营欧洲最大的私人集团

but haven't been able to know the difference between net and gross.

但一直我都没搞懂净收入和毛收入的差别

And so the board meetings have been fascinating.

所以董事会会议还是挺令人向往的

(Laughter)

（笑）

And so, it's like, good news or bad news?

所以，这到底是好事还是坏事？

And generally, the people would say, oh, well that's bad news.

人们大都会说，噢，那可不是什么好事

CA: But just to clarify, the 25 billion dollars is gross, right? That's gross?

克：澄清一下，250亿是毛收入，是毛收入对吧？

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: Well, I hope it's net actually, having --

理：我倒希望是净收入

(Laughter) --

（笑）

I've got it right.

我应该没搞错吧

CA: No, trust me, it's gross.

克：不，相信我，是毛收入

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: So, when I turned 50, somebody took me outside the boardroom and said,

理：有一天有人把年过50的我拉出董事会门外

"Look Richard, here's a -- let me draw on a diagram.

“你看，理查德，让我给你画图解释一下--

Here's a net in the sea,

海里有一张网

and the fish have been pulled from the sea into this net.

把鱼从海里捞出来

And that's the profits you've got left over in this little net,

这张小网里剩下的是你的盈利

everything else is eaten."

其他的都被吃光了。”

And I finally worked it all out.

到最后，我总算搞明白了

(Laughter)

（笑）

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

CA: But, I mean, at school -- so as well as being,

克：但是，在学校，虽说身为--

you know, doing pretty miserably academically,

成绩不太理想的学生

but you were also the captain of the cricket and football teams.

你可还是板球和足球队队长

So you were kind of a -- you were a natural leader,

所以，你是那种，那种天生领袖

but just a bit of a ... Were you a rebel then, or how would you ...

但有有那么点--有点叛逆，你自己怎么看…

RB: Yeah, I think I was a bit of a maverick and -- but I ... And I was,

理：，我是有那么点标新立异，但是，我--

yeah, I was fortunately good at sport,

幸运的是，我还挺有运动细胞的

and so at least I had something to excel at, at school.

所以在学校我还可以在某些方面很超群

CA: And some bizarre things happened just earlier in your life.

克：你年轻的时候还是经历了不少怪事的

I mean, there's the story about your mother

我的意思是，你母亲还有段小插曲

allegedly dumping you in a field, aged four, and saying "OK, walk home."

据说，她把当时只有4岁的你弃于田野，说“自己走回家去吧。”

Did this really happen?

这是真的吗？

RB: She was, you know,

理：是的，要知道

she felt that we needed to stand on our own two feet from an early age.

她认为我们从小就应该自食其力

So she did things to us, which now she'd be arrested for,

所以她才会这样做，换作今天，她准会被送到警察局

such as pushing us out of the car,

她把我们赶下车

and telling us to find our own way to Granny's,

让我们自己找到去祖母家的路

about five miles before we actually got there.

我们走了得有5公里才到

And making us go on wonderful, long bike rides.

她还让我们骑上自行车去很远的地方

And we were never allowed to watch television and the like.

她从来不让我们看电视什么的

CA: But is there a risk here?

克：这么做也挺有风险的吧

I mean, there's a lot of people in the room who are wealthy, and they've got kids,

演播室里在座的也有家境殷实有孩子的

and we've got this dilemma about how you bring them up.

把孩子拉扯成人还是挺进退两难的累人的

Do you look at the current generation of kids coming up and think

你觉得现在的孩子

they're too coddled, they don't know what they've got,

是不是太被娇生惯养了，没有什么感恩之心

we're going to raise a generation of privileged ...

这代人会不会变成坐拥…

RB: No, I think if you're bringing up kids,

理：不，我不觉得人们在培养孩子

you just want to smother them with love and praise and enthusiasm.

是把他们泡在宠爱、表扬和殷勤的蜜罐子里

So I don't think you can mollycoddle your kids too much really.

我觉得最好还是不要太娇宠孩子了

CA: You didn't turn out too bad, I have to say, I'm ...

克：你成长的很好嘛，我觉得--

Your headmaster said to you --

你的校长对你说--

I mean he found you kind of an enigma at your school --

我的意思是他觉得你在学校不太合群

he said, you're either going to be a millionaire or go to prison,

他说，你日后要么成为百万富翁，要么锒铛入狱

and I'm not sure which.

而他也不确定你会发成哪一个

Which of those happened first?

那么，上面两个哪一个最先发生？

(Laughter)

（笑）

RB: Well, I've done both. I think I went to prison first.

理：我两样都做到了，不过蹲监狱在先

I was actually prosecuted under two quite ancient acts in the U.K.

我是给英国最古老的两个法案定罪的

I was prosecuted under the 1889 Venereal Diseases Act

根据1889年性病法案我被判罪

and the 1916 Indecent Advertisements Act.

还有根据1916年猥琐广告法案

On the first occasion, for mentioning the word venereal disease in public, which --

第一桩是因为我在公众场合提起“性病”这字眼儿

we had a center where we would help young people who had problems.

那是在一个青年援助中心

And one of the problems young people have is venereal disease.

有个问题少年有性病

And there's an ancient law that says

有那么个古老的法案规定

you can't actually mention the word venereal disease or print it in public.

禁止在公众场合口头或书面提起“性病”二字

So the police knocked on the door, and told us they were going to arrest us

所以，警察找上门来，告诉我我会被逮捕

if we carried on mentioning the word venereal disease.

要是我日后再提起那二字

We changed it to social diseases

在英国这病被叫做“社会病”

and people came along with acne and spots,

人们会长青春痘或暗疮

but nobody came with VD any more.

但没人会得性病

So, we put it back to VD and promptly got arrested.

所以，我们冠之以老叫法就被捕了

And then subsequently, "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols,"

紧接着，《去他的胡诌八扯，我们是性手枪》（英国朋克乐队性手枪专辑名）问世

the word bollocks, the police decided was a rude word and so we were arrested

警察认为”胡诌八扯“不雅，所以我再次锒铛入狱

for using the word bollocks on the Sex Pistols' album.

就因为专辑名字不雅

And John Mortimer, the playwright, defended us.

约翰蒙泰莫（英国作家、法官）为我们辩护

And he asked if I could find a linguistics expert

他问我能否找个语言学家

to come up with a different definition of the word bollocks.

给出bollocks（一意为胡诌八扯）的其他意思

And so I rang up Nottingham University,

后来我打电话给诺丁汉大学

and I asked to talk to the professor of linguistics.

想跟语言学教授谈谈

And he said, "Look, bollocks is not a -- has nothing to do with balls whatsoever.

那教授说”其实，bollocks压根儿没“睾丸”的意思

It's actually a nickname given to priests in the eighteenth century."

这次不过是18实际人们给牧师起得诨名。“

(Laughter)

（笑）

And he went, "Furthermore, I'm a priest myself."

他还说“并且，我本人就是一个牧师。”

And so I said, "Would you mind coming to the court?"

我问“你能来法庭为我作证吗？”

And he said he'd be delighted. And I said --

他说他很乐意。我说--

and he said, "Would you like me to wear my dog collar?"

不，他说“需要我戴牧师的白领子（dog collar又有狗脖套之意）？”

And I said, "Yes, definitely. Please."

我说“那就太好了--麻烦了…”

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: That's great.

克：神了

RB: So our key witness argued that it was actually

理：所以我们的重点证人辩证道--其实

"Never Mind the Priest, Here's the Sex Pistols."

《去他的牧师，我们是性手枪》

(Laughter)

（笑）

And the judge found us -- reluctantly found us not guilty, so ...

然后法官判决--很不情愿的判决我们无罪

(Laughter)

（笑）

CA: That is outrageous.

克：还真是神了

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

So seriously, is there a dark side?

不过说真的，这事儿有负面影响吗？

A lot of people would say there's no way

很多人都说

that someone could put together this incredible collection of businesses

一个人单枪匹马根本没法应付这么庞大的集团

without knifing a few people in the back,

除非被底陷害几个人

you know, doing some ugly things.

就是，就是感谢不光彩的事

You've been accused of being ruthless.

你被指责过心狠手辣

There was a nasty biography written about you by someone.

有人写过一本丑化你的传记

Is any of it true? Is there an element of truth in it?

是真的吗？那书里面有真实的成分吗？

RB: I don't actually think that the stereotype

理：我并不认为那些刻板印象有用

of a businessperson treading all over people to get to the top,

从商的人不择手段达到目的的说法

generally speaking, works.

通常情况下，不是很有说服力

I think if you treat people well,

我觉得只要你对人不薄

people will come back and come back for more.

人们就会回来，并且多次回来

And I think all you have in life is your reputation

我觉得人生在世信誉为本

and it's a very small world.

这世界说小很小

And I actually think that the best way

而且我觉得最好是

of becoming a successful business leader is dealing with people fairly and well,

做一个讲信誉、待人公正的商人

and I like to think that's how we run Virgin.

我是这样运营维珍集团的

CA: And what about the people who love you and who see you spending --

克：那对于爱戴你的人呢

you keep getting caught up in these new projects,

他们眼睁睁看你的新项目被困吗？

but it almost feels like you're addicted to launching new stuff.

貌似你对推陈出新很上瘾啊

You get excited by an idea and, kapow!

你要一心血来潮，瞧！

I mean, do you think about life balance?

你是怎么保持工作生活平衡的？

How do your family feel about

你家人怎么看

each time you step into something big and new?

每当你着手新的大计划？

RB: I also believe that being a father's incredibly important,

理：我也认为为人父是件很重要的事

so from the time the kids were very young,

当我的孩子很还很小时，时不时

you know, when they go on holiday, I go on holiday with them.

当他们出去度假时，我就跟着一起去

And so we spend a very good sort of three months away together.

我们就一起过了3个月快乐假期

Yes, I'll, you know, be in touch. We're very lucky,

是啊，我会，要知道，保持联系。我们是很幸运的

we have this tiny little island in the Caribbean and we can --

我们在加勒比海有个小岛，我们可以--

so I can take them there and we can bring friends,

我会带他们去哪儿，还有朋友们

and we can play together,

一起玩乐

but I can also keep in touch with what's going on.

同时我也可以的到生意上的实时更新信息

CA: You started talking in recent years

克：你近年来开始演讲

about this term capitalist philanthropy.

做有关资本家慈善活动的演讲

What is that?

那到底是什么概念？

RB: Capitalism has been proven to be a system that works.

理：资本主义被验证是一个有效的经济系统

You know, the alternative, communism, has not worked.

要知道，另一种，也就是社会主义，不怎么管用

But the problem with capitalism is

但资本主义的问题是--

extreme wealth ends up in the hands of a few people,

财富高度集中在少数人手中

and therefore extreme responsibility, I think, goes with that wealth.

因此这少数人肩负重任。我认为，用这笔财富

And I think it's important that the individuals,

我觉得对一个人来说很重要

who are in that fortunate position, do not end up competing

对那些幸运的人来说，避免相互攀比

for bigger and bigger boats, and bigger and bigger cars,

看谁的船大，谁的车好

but, you know, use that money to either create new jobs

但，要知道，那钱可以创造更多的工作机会

or to tackle issues around the world.

解决世界上很多亟待解决的问题

CA: And what are the issues that you worry about most, care most about,

克：你最关心的、最担心的

want to turn your resources toward?

最想用你的资源解决的是什么问题呢？

RB: Well, there's -- I mean there's a lot of issues.

理：这个嘛--问题很多

I mean global warming certainly is a massive threat to mankind

全球气候变暖是威胁人类生存的一大问题

and we are putting a lot of time and energy into,

我们正全力解决

A, trying to come up with alternative fuels

要么，找到一种可替代能源

and, B, you know, we just launched this prize, which is really a prize

要么，我们推出个奖，一个真正的奖

in case we don't get an answer on alternative fuels,

以防我们找不到可替代能源

in case we don't actually manage to get the carbon emissions

以防我们没法控制温室气体排放

cut down quickly, and in case we go through the tipping point.

没法即时的解决问题，突破极限时

We need to try to encourage people to come up with a way

我们得鼓励大家另辟蹊径

of extracting carbon out of the Earth's atmosphere.

清洁大气中的温室气体

And we just -- you know, there weren't really people

我们得--要知道，以前没什么人

working on that before, so we wanted people to try to --

着手做过，所以我们想让人们尝试--

all the best brains in the world to start thinking about that,

云集世上最优秀的头脑，集思广益

and also to try to extract the methane

同时还要把甲烷

out of the Earth's atmosphere as well.

从大气层中清出

And actually, we've had about 15,000 people fill in the forms

我们大概有1万5千人报名

saying they want to give it a go.

想参与其中

And so we only need one, so we're hopeful.

我们只需一个解决方法，这还是很有希望的

CA: And you're also working in Africa on a couple of projects?

克：同时你在非洲也有几个计划？

RB: Yes, I mean, we've got -- we're setting up something called

理：是的我们--我们展开一项叫--

the war room, which is maybe the wrong word.

战争房间，好像是这名儿不太好

We're trying to -- maybe we'll change it -- but anyway, it's a war room

我们尝试--也许名字得改--不管怎样，叫战争房间

to try to coordinate all the attack that's going on in Africa,

这个计划试图环节解决非洲的各个冲突

all the different social problems in Africa,

各个社会问题

and try to look at best practices.

并寻找最佳解决替代途径

So, for instance,

比如

there's a doctor in Africa that's found that

非洲有一个医生发现

if you give a mother antiretroviral drugs at 24 weeks, when she's pregnant,

怀孕24周时服用抗逆转录病毒药物的孕妇

that the baby will not have HIV when it's born.

产下的婴儿不会感染艾滋病毒

And so disseminating that information to

然后把这个发现传播

around the rest of Africa is important.

遍及非洲是极为重要的

CA: The war room sounds, it sounds powerful and dramatic.

克：战争房间，这名字很有力

And is there a risk that the kind of the business heroes of the West

作为西方商场上的英雄，这样做会不会有风险

get so excited about -- I mean, they're used to having an idea,

这样兴奋--我的意思是，作为商人，早把主意层出习以为常

getting stuff done, and they believe profoundly

把问题解决习以为常，商人大都坚信

in their ability to make a difference in the world.

自己有能力造福世界

Is there a risk that we go to places like Africa and say,

这样认为，在非洲会不会有风险

we've got to fix this problem and we can do it,

我们能解决这个问题，我们能做到那个

I've got all these billions of dollars, you know, da, da, da --

我们腰缠万贯，种种

here's the big idea. And kind of take a much more complex situation

心怀壮志，一心要解决复杂问题

and actually end up making a mess of it. Do you worry about that?

但到头来却弄得一团糟。你这样担心过吗？

RB: Well, first of all, on this particular situation, we're actually --

理：首先，就这一问题，我们实际上--

we're working with the government on it.

我们正在和当地政府合作

I mean, Thabo Mbeki's had his problems with accepting

姆贝基（南非前总统）虽有点难以接受

HIV and AIDS are related, but this is a way, I think,

但事关艾滋病，我认为这也是一种解决途径

of him tackling this problem and instead of the world criticizing him,

他也在试图解决这一问题，指责他的做法帮不了多大忙

it's a way of working with him, with his government.

这是与他合作的方法，通过与他的政府合作

It's important that if people do go to Africa and do try to help,

要使人们能亲自到非洲，身体力行，这会有很大帮助的

they don't just go in there and then leave after a few years.

不单单只是取代个几年就回来的那种

It's got to be consistent.

而是持而久之的那种

But I think business leaders can bring their entrepreneurial know-how

但我觉得商界领袖可以把他们的企业技能融入

and help governments approach things slightly differently.

对政府的政策稍作引导

For instance, we're setting up clinics in Africa

比如，我们在非洲开设了诊所

where we're going to be giving

我们将会提供

free antiretroviral drugs, free TB treatment

免费的抗逆转录病毒药物及肺结核治疗

and free malaria treatment.

还有免费的疟疾治疗

But we're also trying to make them self-sustaining clinics,

同时我们也试图让这些诊所自食其力

so that people pay for some other aspects.

所以病人还是要支付其他一些费用的

CA: I mean a lot of cynics say about someone like yourself, or Bill Gates,

克：很多愤世嫉俗的人说，想你和比尔盖茨这样的人

or whatever, that this is really being -- it's almost driven by

只不过是--基本上是受

some sort of desire again, you know, for the right image,

回报驱使，就是，提高个人形象

for guilt avoidance and not like a real philanthropic instinct.

就是避免负罪感，而非所谓慈善家本能

What would you say to them?

你会对这批人怎么说呢？

RB: Well, I think that everybody --

理：我觉得，每个人

people do things for a whole variety of different reasons

每个人的行为背后都是有原因的

and I think that, you know, when I'm on me deathbed,

我觉得，当我临死的时候

I will want to feel that I've made a difference

我能感到自己为世界做过贡献的感觉

to other people's lives.

为他人做过贡献的感觉

And that may be a selfish thing to think,

这么想也许挺自私的

but it's the way I've been brought up.

但我就是怀揣这信念长大的

I think if I'm in a position to

我觉得我有能力

radically change other people's lives for the better,

极大提高人们的生活质量

I should do so.

我应该付诸行动

CA: How old are you?

克：你年纪多大了？

RB: I'm 56.

理：56岁了

CA: I mean, the psychologist Erik Erikson says that -- as I understand him

克：心理学家埃里克森说过，并且我也赞同

and I'm a total amateur -- but that during 30s, 40s people are driven by

不过我并非专家，他说，人在30、40岁时

this desire to grow and that's where they get their fulfillment.

会极渴望成长，这样会达到满足的境界

50s, 60s, the mode of operation shifts more to the quest for wisdom

到了50、60岁时，人们会渴望得到智慧

and a search for legacy.

并留下自己的贡献

I mean, it seems like you're still

好像你还

a little bit in the growth phases,

处于渴望成长的阶段

you're still doing these incredible new plans.

你还在着手开展新项目

How much do you think about legacy,

你有多看中为后人留下自己贡献呢？

and what would you like your legacy to be?

你希望自己的贡献是什么？

RB: I don't think I think too much about legacy.

理：我没大想过留下什么

I mean, I like to -- you know, my grandmother lived to 101,

我当然想，要知道，我祖母一直活到101岁

so hopefully I've got another 30 or 40 years to go.

所以，要走运的话，我还有个30、40年

No, I just want to live life to its full.

不，我只想充分利用生命

You know, if I can make a difference,

为世界做点贡献

I hope to be able to make a difference.

我想为世界做点贡献

And I think one of the positive things at the moment is

我觉得当下有利的一点是

you've got Sergey and Larry from Google, for instance,

比如，谷歌的谢尔盖和拉里

who are good friends.

他们是至交

And, thank God, you've got two people

谢天谢地，有两个人

who genuinely care about the world and with that kind of wealth.

真心真意关心这个世界，并用他们的财富造福世界

If they had that kind of wealth and they didn't care about the world,

要是换作有同样财富，却不关心世界的两个人

it would be very worrying.

那可就坏了

And you know they're going to make a hell of a difference to the world.

要真那样，整个世界可就遭殃了

And I think it's important

居高位的人为世界做出贡献

that people in that kind of position do make a difference.

是很重要的

CA: Well, Richard, when I was starting off in business,

克：理查德，我当年刚开始入行的时候

I knew nothing about it and I also was sort of --

我一无所知，而且--

I thought that business people were supposed to just be ruthless

我错以为商界的人就应该心狠手辣

and that that was the only way you could have a chance of succeeding.

只有这样才能站得住脚并成功

And you actually did inspire me. I looked at you, I thought,

你今天给了我很大启发。看看你，我心想

well, he's made it. Maybe there is a different way.

他做到了，也许真有另一种成功的方法

So I would like to thank you for that inspiration,

所以，谢谢你今天给我们的启发

and for coming to TED today. Thank you.

谢谢你今天参与TED，谢谢

Thank you so much.

非常感谢

(Applause)

（鼓掌）