Leslie T. Chang: The voices of China's workers

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

翻译人员: Lai Chen 校对人员: Jing Xu

Hi. So I'd like to talk a little bit about the people

嗨。今天我想来探讨一下

who make the things we use every day:

这些为我们制造日常用品的人们：

our shoes, our handbags, our computers and cell phones.

例如我们的鞋子，手提包，电脑，还有手机。

Now, this is a conversation that often calls up a lot of guilt.

这个话题时常让我们觉得很内疚。

Imagine the teenage farm girl who makes less than

想象一下，一个年轻的农村女孩给你缝制跑步鞋

a dollar an hour stitching your running shoes,

可每个小时还赚不到一美金，

or the young Chinese man who jumps off a rooftop

又或者是那个加班为你组装iPad的中国小伙子

after working overtime assembling your iPad.

在加班之后从楼上跳了下来。

We, the beneficiaries of globalization, seem to exploit

我们，是全球化的受益者，

these victims with every purchase we make,

可每笔交易却似乎都是在剥削那些受害者，

and the injustice

而这种不公平

feels embedded in the products themselves.

似乎也深深烙印在这些产品之中。

After all, what's wrong with a world in which a worker

总而言之，这个世界到底怎么了？

on an iPhone assembly line can't even afford to buy one?

一个在组装iphone生产线上的员工却买不起一台iphone？

It's taken for granted that Chinese factories are oppressive,

人们理所当然地认为，中国的工厂就是应该被压榨的，

and that it's our desire for cheap goods

因为我们渴求便宜的产品

that makes them so.

造成了这样的局面。

So, this simple narrative equating Western demand

很显然，西方社会的需求

and Chinese suffering is appealing,

和中国人对他们遭遇的申诉被连接在一起，

especially at a time when many of us already feel guilty

尤其是当我们中的很多人已经因为我们对世界影响

about our impact on the world,

而感到了内疚，

but it's also inaccurate and disrespectful.

然而，这是不正确的，也是不尊重他人的。

We must be peculiarly self-obsessed to imagine that we

我们极其自恋地去想象着

have the power to drive tens of millions of people

我们有力量去操控地球另一边

on the other side of the world to migrate and suffer

千万的人民，让他们以如此可怕的方式

in such terrible ways.

去遭受痛苦或者迁移。

In fact, China makes goods for markets all over the world,

事实上，中国制造的产品遍布全球，

including its own, thanks to a combination of factors:

也包括他们自己的市场，这要归结于许多因素的综合：

its low costs, its large and educated workforce,

低成本，大量受过教育的劳动力，

and a flexible manufacturing system

还有有弹性的工作制度

that responds quickly to market demands.

这些都快速地迎合了市场的需求。

By focusing so much on ourselves and our gadgets,

我们因为太专注于我们自身和产品上，

we have rendered the individuals on the other end

所以忽视了产业链另一端的个体的存在

into invisibility, as tiny and interchangeable

将他们看成是可以随时被替换的，微小的

as the parts of a mobile phone.

像手机零件那样。

Chinese workers are not forced into factories

中国工人并不是因为我们对于iPods的无限渴求

because of our insatiable desire for iPods.

而被迫进入工厂的。

They choose to leave their homes in order to earn money,

他们选择离乡背井，是为了赚钱，

to learn new skills, and to see the world.

为了学习新的技能，以及为了看看这个世界。

In the ongoing debate about globalization, what's

在对全球化发展趋势的辩论中

been missing is the voices of the workers themselves.

我们缺失的，是聆听工人们自己的声音。

Here are a few.

以下就是一些例子。

Bao Yongxiu: "My mother tells me to come home

包永秀（音译）说：“我妈妈让我回家结婚

and get married, but if I marry now, before I have fully

但是如果我还没有让自己得到充分的发展

developed myself, I can only marry an ordinary worker,

就结婚，我只能嫁给一个平凡的工人，

so I'm not in a rush."

所以我根本不着急。”

Chen Ying: "When I went home for the new year,

陈颖（音译）说：“我过年回家的时候

everyone said I had changed. They asked me,

每个人都说我变了，他们问我：

what did you do that you have changed so much?

你怎么会有这么大的改变？

I told them that I studied and worked hard. If you tell them

我告诉他们，我很努力地学习和工作，

more, they won't understand anyway."

即便你想给他们讲更多，他们反正也不能理解。”

Wu Chunming: "Even if I make a lot of money,

吴春明（音译）： “即使我赚了很多钱

it won't satisfy me.

也无法满足我自己。

Just to make money is not enough meaning in life."

赚钱并不是生活全部的意义。”

Xiao Jin: "Now, after I get off work, I study English,

肖金（音译）说： “现在我下班以后，就会去学英语

because in the future, our customers won't

因为在不久的将来，我们的客户将不仅仅是中国人，

be only Chinese, so we must learn more languages."

所以，我们需要学习更多的语言。”

All of these speakers, by the way, are young women,

以上的话，都是出自一些年轻女孩的口，

18 or 19 years old.

她们仅仅18、19岁。

So I spent two years getting to know assembly line workers

因此，我花了两年时间去了解流水工作线上的工人们

like these in the south China factory city called Dongguan.

例如在中国南部的一个工业城市——东莞。

Certain subjects came up over and over:

有一些主要的问题不断的重复着：

how much money they made,

他们到底赚了多少钱，

what kind of husband they hoped to marry,

她们想要嫁给怎样的人，

whether they should jump to another factory

他们是否想要跳槽

or stay where they were.

还是留在一个工厂内。

Other subjects came up almost never, including

另一些话题，则几乎不被提起

living conditions that to me looked close to prison life:

例如：在我眼中如牢狱般的生活条件

10 or 15 workers in one room,

10-15个工人住在一个房间里，

50 people sharing a single bathroom,

50个人公用一个厕所，

days and nights ruled by the factory clock.

日以继夜地按照工厂的要求来作息。

Everyone they knew lived in similar circumstances,

他们每一个人都知道，即便是住在如此的环境里面

and it was still better than the dormitories and homes

也会比他们在中国农村的老家的条件

of rural China.

好得多

The workers rarely spoke about the products they made,

工人们很少谈论他们制造的产品，

and they often had great difficulty explaining

他们往往很难解释清楚

what exactly they did.

他们到底做了什么。

When I asked Lu Qingmin,

我访问了吕清民（音译）

the young woman I got to know best,

这个年轻的女孩是我最了解的，

what exactly she did on the factory floor,

我问她她在工厂里到底从事什么工作

she said something to me in Chinese that sounded like

她用中文告诉我，听起来像是

"qiu xi."

“秋西。”

Only much later did I realize that she had been saying

很久以后，我才知道她说的是

"QC," or quality control.

"QC"，也就是质量监控。

She couldn't even tell me what she did on the factory floor.

她竟然都不能告诉我她在工厂里做的是什么。

All she could do was parrot a garbled abbreviation

她能做的就只是模仿一个英文缩写的发音

in a language she didn't even understand.

而这个语言是她根本就不懂的。

Karl Marx saw this as the tragedy of capitalism,

马克思认为这就是资本主义的悲哀

the alienation of the worker from the product of his labor.

疏远了工人与他们所制造的产品。

Unlike, say, a traditional maker of shoes or cabinets,

与传统的鞋匠或者木匠不同，

the worker in an industrial factory has no control,

工人在工厂没有控制权，

no pleasure, and no true satisfaction or understanding

在她所做的工作中，没有快乐，

in her own work.

没有真正的满足或理解。

But like so many theories that Marx arrived at

但同许多马克思

sitting in the reading room of the British Museum,

坐在英国图书馆的阅读室里想出来理论一样，

he got this one wrong.

这一点，他错了。

Just because a person spends her time

仅仅因为一个人用她的时间

making a piece of something does not mean

去制造一件物品，并不代表

that she becomes that, a piece of something.

她就变成了这件物品。

What she does with the money she earns,

她用她赚的钱去做了什么

what she learns in that place, and how it changes her,

她在那个地方学到了什么技能，以及她如何被改变

these are the things that matter.

这些才是重要的。

What a factory makes is never the point, and

一个工厂制造什么并非重点，

the workers could not care less who buys their products.

工人们也不在乎谁买了他们制造的产品。

Journalistic coverage of Chinese factories,

记者报道了关于中国工厂的新闻

on the other hand, plays up this relationship

另一方面，也强调了

between the workers and the products they make.

工人与产品之间的联系。

Many articles calculate: How long would it take

很多文章都在计算：

for this worker to work in order to earn enough money

这些工人要工作多久，赚来的钱

to buy what he's making?

才够买一件他们制作的产品？

For example, an entry-level-line assembly line worker

举个例子，一个初级组装生产线的工人

in China in an iPhone plant would have to shell out

在中国组装iPhone配件

two and a half months' wages for an iPhone.

要倾其2个半月的工资才能买一台iPhone。

But how meaningful is this calculation, really?

但说真的，这些计算有任何意义吗？

For example, I recently wrote an article

再举个例子，我最近写了一篇文章

in The New Yorker magazine,

登在纽约客杂志上，

but I can't afford to buy an ad in it.

但是也供不起我在杂志上登一个广告。

But, who cares? I don't want an ad in The New Yorker,

但是，谁在乎？我不需要在纽约客上登广告

and most of these workers don't really want iPhones.

其实，大部分的工人，也不是真的需要iPhone。

Their calculations are different.

他们的计算方式是不同的。

How long should I stay in this factory?

我在工厂要待多久？

How much money can I save?

我能存多少钱？

How much will it take to buy an apartment or a car,

我需要多少钱才能买个房子，买辆车，

to get married, or to put my child through school?

才能结婚，或者足以送我的小孩去学校？

The workers I got to know had a curiously abstract

这些我试图去了解的工人们

relationship with the product of their labor.

对他们和产品之间的联系有着很抽象的解读。

About a year after I met Lu Qingmin, or Min,

大概在我遇到陆青敏，也就是小敏的一年后

she invited me home to her family village

她邀请我去她农村的家做客

for the Chinese New Year.

过春节。

On the train home, she gave me a present:

在回家的火车上，她给了我一个礼物：

a Coach brand change purse with brown leather trim.

一个棕色皮质的Coach牌零钱包。

I thanked her, assuming it was fake,

我谢了她，虽然我很自然地认为这应该是个山寨的产品，

like almost everything else for sale in Dongguan.

就好像东莞在出售的大部分产品一样。

After we got home, Min gave her mother another present:

回家以后，小敏给了她妈妈另一个礼物：

a pink Dooney & Bourke handbag,

一个Dooney & Bourke牌的粉色手提包，

and a few nights later, her sister was showing off

几天以后，她的姐姐正在展示

a maroon LeSportsac shoulder bag.

一个红褐色的LeSportsac单肩包。

Slowly it was dawning on me that these handbags

慢慢地，我好想明白了

were made by their factory,

这些东西都是她们工厂生产的

and every single one of them was authentic.

每一件东西，都是正品

Min's sister said to her parents,

小敏的姐姐告诉她父母

"In America, this bag sells for 320 dollars."

“在美国，这个包要卖320美金。”

Her parents, who are both farmers, looked on, speechless.

她的农民父母看了看，无言以对。

"And that's not all -- Coach is coming out with a new line,

还有，Coach正在推出一系列新产品2191

2191," she said. "One bag will sell for 6,000."

她说：“这个好像要卖6000。”

She paused and said, "I don't know if that's 6,000 yuan or

她停顿了一下：“我不知道是6000人民币，还是

6,000 American dollars, but anyway, it's 6,000." (Laughter)

6000美元，无论如何都是6000啦。” （笑声）

Min's sister's boyfriend, who had traveled home with her

小敏姐姐的男友也回到家

for the new year, said,

与她一起过年，

"It doesn't look like it's worth that much."

他说：“看起来不值这么多钱。”

Min's sister turned to him and said, "Some people actually

小敏的姐姐对他说：“有的人

understand these things. You don't understand shit."

就是懂这些东西，你懂啥。”

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑声）（掌声）

In Min's world, the Coach bags had a curious currency.

在小敏的世界里，Coach包包有一个很奇怪的价值。

They weren't exactly worthless, but they were nothing

它们虽然不是一文不值，但是相比起它们的实际价值

close to the actual value, because almost no one they knew

还是相差甚远，因为她们所结识的人里面

wanted to buy one, or knew how much it was worth.

几乎没有人想要买，也没有人知道这值多少钱。

Once, when Min's older sister's friend got married,

有一次，小敏大姐的一个朋友结婚

she brought a handbag along as a wedding present.

她带着一个手提包作为给新人的礼物。

Another time, after Min had already left

又一次，小敏已经离开手提包的工厂了

the handbag factory, her younger sister came to visit,

但她的小妹妹来看她的时候

bringing two Coach Signature handbags as gifts.

带了两个经典款Coach作为礼物。

I looked in the zippered pocket of one,

我打开一个有拉链的口袋

and I found a printed card in English, which read,

看到一张卡片写着一些英文：

"An American classic.

“美国经典。

In 1941, the burnished patina

1941年那些表皮磨光的

of an all-American baseball glove

美国棒球手套

inspired the founder of Coach to create

启发了Coach的创始人

a new collection of handbags from the same

促使其研发了一个新系列的手提包：

luxuriously soft gloved-hand leather.

奢华、柔软的的表面和手套的皮质一样。

Six skilled leatherworkers crafted 12 Signature handbags

6名技巧纯熟的皮革工人制造12只经典款手提包

with perfect proportions and a timeless flair.

他们有着精准而快速的手艺。

They were fresh, functional, and women everywhere

这些手提包新颖，具有相当的功能性，世界各地的女人都喜欢

adored them. A new American classic was born."

一个新的美国经典诞生了。”

I wonder what Karl Marx would have made of Min

我想知道马克思是否会被小敏

and her sisters.

和她的姐妹所影响。

Their relationship with the product of their labor

她们与产品之间的关系

was more complicated, surprising and funny

更复杂、惊奇而且有趣

than he could have imagined.

这都超出他的想象。

And yet, his view of the world persists, and our tendency

但是，他对这个世界的观点没变，而我们却将

to see the workers as faceless masses,

这些工人们看成是一群上不了台面的群体，

to imagine that we can know what they're really thinking.

想象一下，假如我们可以了解工人们的真实想法。

The first time I met Min, she had just turned 18

我第一次见到小敏的时候，她刚满18岁

and quit her first job on the assembly line

她刚刚辞去在一家电子设备工厂的

of an electronics factory.

组装生产线的工作。

Over the next two years, I watched as she switched jobs

接下来的两年，我看着她换了5次工作，

five times, eventually landing a lucrative post

最后固定在一个比较赚钱的职位

in the purchasing department of a hardware factory.

是在一个硬件工厂的采购部门。

Later, she married a fellow migrant worker,

不久，她嫁给了一个打工仔，

moved with him to his village,

然后移居到了他的村子，

gave birth to two daughters,

生了两个女儿，

and saved enough money to buy a secondhand Buick

他们存够了钱给她买了一辆二手别克车

for herself and an apartment for her parents.

给她的父母买了房子。

She recently returned to Dongguan on her own

最近她独自回到东莞

to take a job in a factory that makes construction cranes,

在一个起重机工厂里找了份工作，

temporarily leaving her husband and children

暂时与她村里的丈夫和孩子

back in the village.

分居两地。

In a recent email to me, she explained,

在最近的一封邮件里，她解释：

"A person should have some ambition while she is young

“人们年轻的时候，应该有所抱负

so that in old age she can look back on her life

那么在他们老的时候，回首过去

and feel that it was not lived to no purpose."

就不会觉得这一生都毫无意义。”

Across China, there are 150 million workers like her,

在中国，有1亿5千万像她一样的工人，

one third of them women, who have left their villages

其中三分之一，是离乡背井的女性，

to work in the factories, the hotels, the restaurants

她们在工厂、酒店、餐厅

and the construction sites of the big cities.

或者是大城市的建筑工地工作。

Together, they make up the largest migration in history,

这么算来，是她们创造了历史上一个庞大的人口迁移的数字，

and it is globalization, this chain that begins

而这个产业链的起点，就是“全球化”的风靡

in a Chinese farming village

从中国的农村

and ends with iPhones in our pockets and Nikes on our feet

到最终进入我们口袋里的iPhone和脚上的耐克

and Coach handbags on our arms

还有手中的Coach手提包

that has changed the way these millions of people

这改变了数百万人的

work and marry and live and think.

工作、婚姻、生活和思想。

Very few of them would want to go back

他们其中很少有人

to the way things used to be.

愿意回到过去的生活。

When I first went to Dongguan, I worried that

我第一次去东莞的时候，我很担心

it would be depressing to spend so much time with workers.

担心与工人相处的时间会很压抑沮丧。

I also worried that nothing would ever happen to them,

我也担心他们永远不会改变，

or that they would have nothing to say to me.

或者他们也没有什么能对我说的。

Instead, I found young women who were smart and funny

然而，我发现那些年轻的女性都很聪明、风趣

and brave and generous.

而且勇敢、大方。

By opening up their lives to me,

通过向我展示她们的生活，

they taught me so much about factories

她们教给我很多关于工厂

and about China and about how to live in the world.

关于中国，以及如何生存在这个世界的道理。

This is the Coach purse that Min gave me

这就是小敏在回家的火车上

on the train home to visit her family.

送给我的Coach钱包。

I keep it with me to remind me of the ties that tie me

我一直保存着它，由此提醒着我与这些

to the young women I wrote about,

我记录过的年轻女生的联系，

ties that are not economic but personal in nature,

这些并不是因为经济而是因为个人情感的联系，

measured not in money but in memories.

价值并不是在于金钱而是记忆。

This purse is also a reminder that the things that you imagine,

这个钱包也是一个提醒，

sitting in your office or in the library,

你坐在办公室或图书馆里时所想象的东西

are not how you find them when you actually go out

和你走出去真正接触的东西

into the world.

并不一样。

Thank you. (Applause)

谢谢。（掌声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

Chris Anderson: Thank you, Leslie, that was an insight

谢谢，Leslie，真的很有见地

that a lot of us haven't had before.

我们中很多人从未这么思考过。

But I'm curious. If you had a minute, say,

但是我很好奇，如果你有一分钟时间

with Apple's head of manufacturing,

对Apple制造商的领导人说一些话

what would you say?

你会说什么？

Leslie Chang: One minute?

一分钟？

CA: One minute. (Laughter)

是的，一分钟。（笑声）

LC: You know, what really impressed me about the workers

你们知道吗，那些工人们真正启发我的

is how much they're self-motivated, self-driven,

是他们的自我激励、自我推进

resourceful, and the thing that struck me,

还有足智多谋，都深深警醒着我

what they want most is education, to learn,

他们最想要的是教育，是学习

because most of them come from very poor backgrounds.

只是因为他们大部分有着穷困的家庭背景。

They usually left school when they were in 7th or 8th grade.

他们通常中学就离开学校了。

Their parents are often illiterate,

他们的父母大都是文盲，

and then they come to the city, and they, on their own,

他们独自来到城市打拼

at night, during the weekends, they'll take a computer class,

晚上或者周末，他们去学习电脑的课程，

they'll take an English class, and learn

或者是学英语，

really, really rudimentary things, you know,

就是学一些真的非常非常基本的东西，你知道吗？

like how to type a document in Word,

例如如何在Word里面打字

or how to say really simple things in English.

或者用英语讲一些简单的事情。

So, if you really want to help these workers,

所以，如果你们想要帮助那些工人

start these small, very focused, very pragmatic classes

开展一些小型、集中、基础的课程

in these schools, and what's going to happen is,

这会带来的结果就是

all your workers are going to move on,

你的工人得到了提升，

but hopefully they'll move on into higher jobs within Apple,

但是希望，他们也会晋升到Apple更高的职位中

and you can help their social mobility

你可以帮助他们适应社会流动性

and their self-improvement.

帮助他们得到自我的提升。

When you talk to workers, that's what they want.

当你于工人们交谈，你就会知道这就是他们所要的。

They do not say, "I want better hot water in the showers.

他们不会说：我想要浴室里有更热的水

I want a nicer room. I want a TV set."

我想要一间更好的房间，想要一个电视

I mean, it would be nice to have those things,

我的意思是，有这些东西固然很好

but that's not why they're in the city,

但是他们来到这个城市不是为了这些，

and that's not what they care about.

而且他们根本不在乎。

CA: Was there a sense from them of a narrative that

他们有没有说过

things were kind of tough and bad, or was there a narrative

生活环境真的很艰苦，或者是

of some kind of level of growth, that things over time

自我得到提升以后，这些东西

were getting better?

也会得到相应改善？

LC: Oh definitely, definitely. I mean, you know,

当然，当然了。我是说，大家都知道

it was interesting, because I spent basically two years

这其实很有趣，我花了大概2年时间

hanging out in this city, Dongguan,

在东莞生活

and over that time, you could see immense change

在这个时间里面，你可以看到每个人的生活

in every person's life: upward, downward, sideways,

都在起着巨大的变化：变得更好，变坏，或者偏离轨道

but generally upward.

但总体来说，都是在进步的。

If you spend enough time, it's upward, and I met people

只要你花足够的时间，就会变好

who had moved to the city 10 years ago, and who are now

如果一个人十年前来到城市

basically urban middle class people,

现在应该已经成为城市的中层阶级，

so the trajectory is definitely upward.

所以总体趋势一定是变好的。

It's just hard to see when you're suddenly

只不过你初入城市的时候

sucked into the city. It looks like everyone's poor and

一下子还无法感知。看起来好像每个人都很穷

desperate, but that's not really how it is.

很失落，但这都不是真实的。

Certainly, the factory conditions are really tough,

可以肯定，工厂的环境十分艰苦

and it's nothing you or I would want to do,

在坐的你我都不会愿意前往，

but from their perspective, where they're coming from

但是比起他们所来自的地方，站在工人的角度来看

is much worse, and where they're going

这都是值得的，他们也希望

is hopefully much better, and I just wanted to give

所去的地方这些都会得到改善，我只想

that context of what's going on in their minds,

把他们所想的东西陈述出来

not what necessarily is going on in yours.

而这些并不等同于你们所认定的东西。

CA: Thanks so much for your talk.

感谢你的演讲。

Thank you very much. (Applause)

非常感谢。（掌声）