Inside the mind of a former radical jihadist | Manwar Ali

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuća Lektor: Tijana Mihajlović

Today I stand before you as a man who lives life to the full

Danas stojim pred vama kao čovek koji živi život u celosti

in the here and now.

ovde i sada.

But for a long time,

Međutim, dugo vremena,

I lived for death.

živeo sam za smrt.

I was a young man who believed

Bio sam mladić koji je verovao

that jihad is to be understood in the language of force and violence.

da džihad treba razumeti jezikom sile i nasilja.

I tried to right wrongs through power and aggression.

Pokušao sam da ispravim nepravde kroz snagu i agresiju.

I had deep concerns for the suffering of others

Duboko sam se brinuo zbog patnje drugih

and a strong desire to help and bring relief to them.

i imao sam snažnu želju da pomognem i da im donesem olakšanje.

I thought violent jihad was noble,

Mislio sam da je nasilni džihad plemenit, viteški

chivalrous

and the best way to help.

i najbolji način da se pomogne.

At a time when so many of our people --

U vreme kada je toliko naših ljudi -

young people especially --

pogotovo mladih -

are at risk of radicalization

pod rizikom od radikalizacije

through groups like al-Qaeda,

kroz grupe kao što je Al Kaida,

Islamic State and others,

Islamska država i druge,

when these groups are claiming

kada te grupe tvrde

that their horrific brutality and violence are true jihad,

da njihova stravična brutalnost i nasilje predstavljaju pravi džihad,

I want to say that their idea of jihad is wrong --

želim da kažem da je njihova predstava o džihadu pogrešna,

completely wrong --

potpuno pogrešna,

as was mine, then.

kao što je bila i moja tada.

Jihad means to strive to one's utmost.

Džihad znači težiti ka svom maksimumu.

It includes exertion and spirituality,

On podrazumeva ulaganje truda i spiritualnost,

self-purification

samopročišćavanje i posvećenost.

and devotion.

It refers to positive transformation

Odnosi se na pozitivan preobražaj

through learning, wisdom and remembrance of God.

kroz učenje, mudrost i podsećanje na boga.

The word jihad stands for all those meanings as a whole.

Reč „džihad“ podrazumeva sva ta značenja ujedno.

Jihad may at times take the form of fighting,

Džihad povremeno može poprimiti oblik borbe,

but only sometimes,

ali samo ponekad,

under strict conditions,

pod strogim uslovima,

within rules and limits.

u okviru pravila i ograničenja.

In Islam,

U islamu,

mora biti više koristi nekog čina od štete i nedaća koje povlači sa sobom.

the benefit of an act must outweigh the harm or hardship it entails.

More importantly,

Što je još važnije,

the verses in the Koran that are connected to jihad or fighting

stihovi iz Kurana koji su vezani za džihad ili borbu

do not cancel out the verses that talk about forgiveness,

ne isključuju stihove koji govore o opraštanju,

benevolence

dobročinstvu ili strpljenju.

or patience.

But now I believe that there are no circumstances on earth

Međutim, danas smatram da ne postoje okolnosti na svetu

where violent jihad is permissible,

u kojima je nasilni džihad dopustiv,

because it will lead to greater harm.

jer će dovesti do veće štete.

But now the idea of jihad has been hijacked.

Međutim, danas je ideja o džihadu zaplenjena.

It has been perverted to mean violent struggle

Izopačena je tako da označava nasilnu borbu

wherever Muslims are undergoing difficulties,

gde god muslimani prolaze kroz teškoće

and turned into terrorism

i preokrenuta u terorizam

by fascistic Islamists like al-Qaeda,

od strane fašističkih islamista kao što je Al Kaida,

Islamic State and others.

Islamska država i druge.

But I have come to understand

Ipak, shvatio sam

that true jihad means striving to the utmost

da istinski džihad znači težiti ka maksimumu

to strengthen and live those qualities which God loves:

da bismo ojačali i oživeli one osobine koje bog voli:

honesty, trustworthiness,

iskrenost, poverenje,

compassion, benevolence,

saosećanje, dobronamernost,

reliability, respect,

pouzdanost, poštovanje,

truthfulness --

istinoljubivost -

human values that so many of us share.

ljudske vrednosti koje dele mnogi od nas.

I was born in Bangladesh,

Rođen sam u Bangladešu,

but grew up mostly in England.

ali sam uglavnom odrastao u Engleskoj.

And I went to school here.

Išao sam u školu ovde.

My father was an academic,

Moj otac je bio naučnik

and we were in the UK through his work.

i bili smo u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu preko njegovog rada.

In 1971 we were in Bangladesh when everything changed.

Godine 1971, bili smo u Bangladešu kada se sve promenilo.

The War of Independence impacted upon us terribly,

Rat za nezavisnost se užasno odrazio na nas,

pitting family against family,

suprotstavljajući porodicu protiv porodice,

neighbor against neighbor.

komšiju protiv komšije.

And at the age of 12 I experienced war,

U 12. godini sam doživeo rat,

destitution in my family,

siromaštvo u svojoj porodici,

the deaths of 22 of my relatives in horrible ways,

smrt 22 rođaka na užasne načine,

as well as the murder of my elder brother.

kao i ubistvo svog starijeg brata.

I witnessed killing ...

Bio sam svedok ubijanja,

animals feeding on corpses in the streets,

životinja koje se hrane leševima po ulicama,

starvation all around me,

gladovanja svuda oko mene,

wanton, horrific violence --

bezobzirno, stravično nasilje -

senseless violence.

besmisleno nasilje.

I was a young man,

Bio sam mlad,

teenager, fascinated by ideas.

tinejdžer, fasciniran idejama.

I wanted to learn,

Želeo sam da učim,

but I could not go to school for four years.

ali nisam mogao da idem u školu tokom četiri godine.

After the War of Independence,

Nakon rata za nezavisnost,

my father was put in prison for two and a half years,

mog oca su smestili u zatvor na dve i po godine,

and I used to visit him every week in prison,

a ja sam ga posećivao u zatvoru svake nedelje

and homeschooled myself.

i podučavao sam sebe kod kuće.

My father was released in 1973

Moj otac je pušten na slobodu 1973. godine

and he fled to England as a refugee,

i pobegao je u Englesku kao izbeglica,

and we soon followed him.

a mi smo uskoro krenuli za njim.

I was 17.

Imao sam 17 godina.

So these experiences gave me

Ova iskustva su mi pružila

a sharp awareness of the atrocities and injustices in the world.

izrazitu svesnost o svirepostima i nepravdama u svetu.

And I had a strong desire --

Imao sam snažnu želju -

a very keen, deep desire --

veoma žestoku, duboku želju -

to right wrongs

da ispravim nepravde i pomognem žrtvama ugnjetavanja.

and help the victims of oppression.

While studying at college in the UK,

Dok sam studirao na fakultetu u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu,

I met others who showed me how I could channel that desire

sretao sam druge koji su mi pokazali kako da kanališem tu želju

and help through my religion.

i da pomognem kroz svoju religiju.

And I was radicalized --

Bio sam radikalizovan,

enough to consider violence correct,

dovoljno da smatram nasilje ispravnim,

even a virtue under certain circumstances.

čak i vrlinom pod određenim okolnostima.

So I became involved in the jihad in Afghanistan.

Tako sam se priključio džihadu u Avganistanu.

I wanted to protect the Muslim Afghan population against the Soviet army.

Hteo sam da zaštitim muslimansko stanovništvo Avganistana

od sovjetske vojske.

And I thought that was jihad:

Mislio sam da je to džihad,

my sacred duty,

moja sveta dužnost,

which would be rewarded by God.

koju će bog nagraditi.

I became a preacher.

Postao sam propovednik.

I was one of the pioneers of violent jihad in the UK.

Bio sam jedan od pionira nasilnog džihada u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.

I recruited,

Regrutovao sam,

I raised funds, I trained.

prikupljao sredstva, obučavao sam.

I confused true jihad

Pomešao sam pravi džihad sa ovom izopačenošću

with this perversion as presented by the fascist Islamists --

kako su je predstavili fašistički islamisti -

these people who use the idea of jihad

ti ljudi koji koriste ideju o džihadu

to justify their lust for power, authority and control on earth:

da bi opravdali svoju žudnju za moći, autoritetom i kontrolom na zemlji,

a perversion perpetuated today by fascist Islamist groups

sa izopačenošću koju danas održavaju fašističke islamističke grupe

like al-Qaeda, Islamic State and others.

kao što su Al Kaida, Islamska država i druge.

For a period of around 15 years,

Tokom perioda od oko 15 godina,

I fought for short periods of time

borio sam se na kraće vreme

in Kashmir and Burma,

u Kašmiru i Burmi,

besides Afghanistan.

pored Avganistana.

Our aim was to remove the invaders,

Naš cilj je bio da uklonimo okupatore,

to bring relief to the oppressed victims

da donesemo olakšanje potlačenim žrtvama

and of course to establish an Islamic state,

i, naravno, da uspostavimo Islamsku državu,

a caliphate for God's rule.

kalifat za božju vladavinu.

And I did this openly.

Radio sam ovo otvoreno.

I didn't break any laws.

Nisam prekršio nijedan zakon.

I was proud and grateful to be British --

Bio sam ponosan i zahvalan što sam Britanac -

I still am.

i još uvek sam.

And I bore no hostility against this, my country,

Nisam gajio nikakvo neprijateljstvo protiv ove, moje zemlje,

nor enmity towards the non-Muslim citizens,

niti mržnju prema nemuslimanima,

and I still don't.

i ne gajim ih ni danas.

During one battle in Afghanistan,

Za vreme jedne bitke u Avganistanu,

some British men and I formed a special bond

neki muškarci iz Britanije i ja smo se naročito povezali

with a 15-year-old Afghani boy,

sa avganistanskim dečakom od 15 godina,

Abdullah,

Abdulahom,

an innocent, loving and lovable kid

nevinim i simpatičnim detetom sa puno ljubavi

who was always eager to please.

koje je uvek bilo željno da udovolji.

He was poor.

Bio je siromašan.

And boys like him did menial tasks in the camp.

Dečaci poput njega su obavljali fizičke poslove u kampu.

And he seemed happy enough,

Delovao je sasvim srećno,

but I couldn't help wonder --

ali nisam mogao da se ne zapitam -

his parents must have missed him dearly.

mora da je jako nedostajao svojim roditeljima.

And they must have dreamt about a better future for him.

Mora da su maštali o boljoj budućnosti za njega.

A victim of circumstance caught up in a war,

Žrtva okolnosti obuhvaćena ratom

cruelly thrust upon him

koji su nemilosrdno bacile na njega

by the cruel circumstances of the time.

okrutne okolnosti tog vremena.

One day I picked up this unexploded mortar shell in a trench,

Jednog dana sam podigao neeksplodiranu granatu u rovu

and I had it deposited in a makeshift mud hut lab.

i položio sam je u improvizovanu laboratoriju od blata.

And I went out on a short, pointless skirmish --

Otišao sam u kratki, besmisleni okršaj,

always pointless,

uvek besmislen,

And I came back a few hours later to discover he was dead.

i vratio sam se nekoliko sati kasnije da bih otkrio da je mrtav.

He had tried to recover explosives from that shell.

Pokušao je da izvuče eksplozive iz te granate.

It exploded, and he died a violent death,

Eksplodirala je i umro je nasilnom smrću,

blown to bits by the very same device that had proved harmless to me.

tako što ga je raznela na komade

ista naprava koja se kod mene pokazala kao bezopasna.

So I started to question.

Počeo sam da postavljam pitanja.

How did his death serve any purpose?

Kako je njegova smrt poslužila bilo kojoj svrsi?

Why did he die and I lived?

Zašto je on umro, a ja sam preživeo?

I carried on.

Nastavio sam dalje.

I fought in Kashmir.

Borio sam se u Kašmiru.

I also recruited for the Philippines,

Takođe sam regrutovao za Filipine,

Bosnia and Chechnya.

Bosnu i Čečeniju.

And the questions grew.

Pitanja je bilo sve više.

Later in Burma,

Kasnije, u Burmi,

I came across Rohingya fighters,

naišao sam na ratnike Rohindža

who were barely teenagers,

koji jedva da su bili tinejdžeri,

born and brought up in the jungle,

rođeni i odgajani u džungli,

noseći mitraljeze i minobacače.

carrying machine guns and grenade launchers.

I met two 13-year-olds with soft manners and gentle voices.

Upoznao sam dva trinaestogodišnjaka sa finim manirima i nežnim glasovima.

Looking at me,

Gledajući me,

molili su me da ih odvedem u Englesku.

they begged me to take them away to England.

They simply wanted to go to school --

Jednostavno su želeli da idu u školu;

that was their dream.

to je bio njihov san.

My family --

Moja porodica -

my children of the same age --

moja deca istog uzrasta,

were living at home in the UK,

živela su kod kuće u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu,

going to school,

išla u školu

living a safe life.

i vodila bezbedan život.

And I couldn't help wonder

Nisam mogao da se ne zapitam

how much these young boys must have spoken to one another

koliko mora da su ti dečaci međusobno razgovarali

about their dreams for such a life.

o svojim snovima o takvom životu.

Victims of circumstances:

Žrtve okolnosti,

these two young boys,

ova dva dečaka

sleeping rough on the ground, looking up at the stars,

koja spavaju na gruboj zemlji, gledaju u zvezde,

cynically exploited by their leaders

cinično eksploatisani od svojih lidera

for their personal lust for glory and power.

zarad njihove lične pohlepe za slavom i moći.

I soon witnessed boys like them killing one another

Uskoro sam prisustvovao kada su se dečaci poput njih ubijali međusobno

in conflicts between rival groups.

u konfliktima suprotstavljenih grupa.

And it was the same everywhere ...

Svuda je bilo isto -

Afghanistan, Kashmir, Burma,

u Avganistanu, Kašmiru, Burmi,

Philippines, Chechnya;

Filipinima, Čečeniji -

petty warlords got the young and vulnerable to kill one another

sitni gospodari rata su navodili mlade i ranjive da ubijaju jedni druge

in the name of jihad.

u ime džihada.

Muslims against Muslims.

Muslimani protiv muslimana.

Not protecting anyone against invaders or occupiers;

Nisu štitili nikoga od napadača ili okupatora,

not bringing relief to the oppressed.

niti su donosili olakšanje potlačenima.

Children being used,

Deca su iskorišćavana,

cynically exploited;

cinično izrabljivana;

people dying in conflicts

ljudi su umirali u konfliktima

which I was supporting in the name of jihad.

koje sam podržavao u ime džihada.

And it still carries on today.

To se i dalje danas nastavlja.

Realizing that the violent jihad

Shvativiši da je nasilni džihad

I had engaged in abroad

u kome sam bio uključen u inostranstvu

was so different --

bio toliko drugačiji -

such a chasm between what I had experienced

takav jaz između onoga što sam doživeo

and what I thought was sacred duty --

i što sam smatrao da je sveta dužnost -

I had to reflect on my activities here in the UK.

morao sam da se osvrnem na svoje aktivnosti

ovde, u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.

I had to consider my preaching,

Morao sam da razmotrim svoje propovedanje,

recruiting, fund-raising,

regrutovanje, prikupljanje sredstava,

training,

obučavanje,

but most importantly, radicalizing --

ali najvažnije, radikalizaciju -

sending young people to fight and die

slanje mladih ljudi da se bore i umiru

as I was doing --

kao što sam činio -

all totally wrong.

sve potpuno pogrešno.

So I got involved in violent jihad in the mid '80s,

Uključio sam se u nasilni džihad sredinom '80-ih godina,

starting with Afghanistan.

počevši od Avganistana.

And by the time I finished it was in the year 2000.

Kada sam završio, bila je 2000. godina.

I was completely immersed in it.

Potpuno sam bio unesen u njega.

All around me people supported,

Svuda oko mene ljudi su podržavali, aplaudirali,

applauded,

even celebrated what we were doing in their name.

čak i slavili ono što smo činili u njihovo ime.

Međutim, onda kada sam spoznao da treba da izađem,

But by the time I learned to get out,

completely disillusioned in the year 2000,

potpuno razbijenih iluzija 2000. godine,

15 years had passed.

15 godina je prošlo.

So what goes wrong?

Dakle, šta krene naopako?

We were so busy talking about virtue,

Bili smo tako zauzeti govoreći o vrlini

and we were blinded by a cause.

i bili smo zaslepljeni ciljem.

And we did not give ourselves a chance to develop a virtuous character.

Nismo dali sebi priliku da razvijemo čestitu ličnost.

We told ourselves we were fighting for the oppressed,

Govorili smo sebi da se borimo za ugnjetavane,

but these were unwinnable wars.

ali to su bili ratovi koji se nisu mogli izvojevati.

We became the very instrument through which more deaths occurred,

Postali smo upravo oruđe kroz koje je dolazilo do više smrti,

complicit in causing further misery

saučesnici u izazivanju dalje bede

for the selfish benefit of the cruel few.

zarad sebične koristi okrutne nekolicine.

So over time,

Tako sam vremenom,

a very long time,

nakon vrlo dužeg vremena,

I opened my eyes.

otvorio oči.

I began to dare

Postepeno sam se osmelio

to face the truth,

da se suočim sa istinom,

to think,

da razmislim,

to face the hard questions.

da se suočim sa teškim pitanjima.

I got in touch with my soul.

Stupio sam u kontakt sa svojom dušom.

What have I learned?

Šta sam naučio?

That people who engage in violent jihadism,

Da ljudi koji se angažuju u nasilnom džihadu,

that people who are drawn to these types of extremisms,

ti ljudi koje privlači takva vrsta ekstremizma,

are not that different to everyone else.

nisu toliko drugačiji od bilo koga drugog.

But I believe such people can change.

Ipak, verujem da se takvi ljudi mogu promeniti.

They can regain their hearts and restore them

Mogu da povrate svoje srce i oporave ga

by filling them with human values that heal.

ispunivši ga ljudskim vrednostima

koje isceljuju.

When we ignore the realities,

Kada ignorišemo stvarnost,

we discover that we accept what we are told without critical reflection.

otkrijemo da prihvatamo šta nam se kaže bez kritičkog osvrtanja.

And we ignore the gifts and advantages that many of us would cherish

Ignorišemo darove i prilike koje bi mnogi od nas cenili

even for a single moment in their lives.

čak i samo na jedan trenutak u životu.

I engaged in actions I thought were correct.

Angažovao sam se u akcijama za koje sam smatrao da su ispravne.

But now I began to question how I knew what I knew.

Međutim, sada počinjem da preispitujem kako sam znao ono što sam znao.

I endlessly told others to accept the truth,

Beskrajno sam govorio drugima da prihvate istinu,

but I failed to give doubt its rightful place.

ali nisam uspeo da dam sumnji mesto koje joj s pravom pripada.

This conviction that people can change is rooted in my experience,

Ovo ubeđenje da se ljudi mogu promeniti ukorenjeno je u mom iskustvu,

my own journey.

mom sopstvenom putovanju.

Through wide reading,

Kroz mnogo čitanja,

reflecting,

kroz razmišljanje,

contemplation, self-knowledge,

duboko razmatranje, samosaznavanje,

I discovered,

otkrio sam,

shvatio sam da je islamistički svet nas i njih lažan i nepravedan.

I realized that Islamists' world of us and them is false and unjust.

Through considering the uncertainties in all that we had asserted,

Kroz razmatranje neizvesnosti u svemu tome što smo tvrdili

to the inviolable truths,

da su neprikosnovene istine,

incontestable truths,

neosporne istine,

I developed a more nuanced understanding.

razvio sam prefinjenije razumevanje.

I realized that in a world crowded with variation and contradiction,

Shvatio sam da u svetu prepunom odstupanja i protivrečnosti,

foolish preachers,

budalasti propovednici,

only foolish preachers like I used to be,

samo budalasti propovednici kakav sam i ja nekad bio,

see no paradox in the myths and fictions they use to assert authenticity.

ne vide paradoks u mitovima i izmišljotinama koje koriste

da bi tvrdili autentičnost.

So I understood the vital importance of self-knowledge,

Stoga sam razumeo presudan značaj samosaznavanja,

political awareness

političke svesnosti

and the necessity for a deep and wide understanding

i nužnosti za dubokim i širokim razumevanjem

of our commitments and our actions,

naše posvećenosti i akcija,

how they affect others.

načina na koji utiču na druge.

So my plea today to everyone,

Moja današnja molba za sve,

especially those who sincerely believe in Islamist jihadism ...

naročito one koji iskreno veruju u islamistički džihadizam -

refuse dogmatic authority;

odbacite dogmatski autoritet;

let go of anger, hatred and violence;

otpustite bes, mržnju i nasilje;

learn to right wrongs

naučite da ispravite nepravde

without even attempting to justify cruel, unjust and futile behavior.

bez ikakvog pokušaja da opravdate surovo, nepravedno i uzaludno ponašanje.

Instead create a few beautiful and useful things

Umesto toga, stvorite nekoliko lepih i korisnih stvari koje će nas nadživeti.

that outlive us.

Approach the world, life,

Pristupite svetu i životu

with love.

sa ljubavlju.

Learn to develop

Naučite da razvijate

or cultivate your hearts

ili negujete svoje srce

to see goodness, beauty and truth in others and in the world.

tako da vidi dobrotu, lepotu i istinu u drugima i u svetu.

That way we do matter more to ourselves ...

Na taj način zaista pridajemo više značaja sebi,

to each other,

jedni drugima,

to our communities

svojim zajednicama,

and, for me, to God.

i, što se mene tiče, bogu.

This is jihad --

To je džihad,

my true jihad.

moj pravi džihad.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)