Inside the mind of a former radical jihadist | Manwar Ali

譯者: nr chan 審譯者: Regina Chu

Today I stand before you as a man who lives life to the full

今天我以能在此時此刻 徹底享受人生的身分

in the here and now.

站在你們面前。

But for a long time,

但曾有很長一段期間，

I lived for death.

我為死亡而活。

I was a young man who believed

我年少時相信

that jihad is to be understood in the language of force and violence.

所謂聖戰即代表了武力及暴力。

I tried to right wrongs through power and aggression.

我試著透過力量和侵略 修正他人的錯誤。

I had deep concerns for the suffering of others

我深切地關心正在受苦受難的旁人，

and a strong desire to help and bring relief to them.

並強烈地想幫助他們解脫。

I thought violent jihad was noble,

我認為暴力性的聖戰 是一種高貴、

chivalrous

驍勇的行為，

and the best way to help.

也是幫助他人的最佳解藥。

At a time when so many of our people --

在我們族群之中很多人──

young people especially --

特別是年輕人──

are at risk of radicalization

透過像是蓋達、

through groups like al-Qaeda,

伊斯蘭國或其他組織，

Islamic State and others,

因而處在激進化的邊緣，

when these groups are claiming

當這些組織聲稱

that their horrific brutality and violence are true jihad,

他們的暴行才是真正的聖戰之時，

I want to say that their idea of jihad is wrong --

我得說他們對聖戰 這兩個字的概念有誤──

completely wrong --

大錯特錯──

as was mine, then.

就像是那時的我所認為的一樣。

Jihad means to strive to one's utmost.

聖戰代表要盡一個人的全力。

It includes exertion and spirituality,

這包含了各層面的功修、

self-purification

自我淨化，

and devotion.

以及奉獻精神。

It refers to positive transformation

聖戰代表了透過學習、智慧

through learning, wisdom and remembrance of God.

和紀念真主的正向轉型。

The word jihad stands for all those meanings as a whole.

聖戰這一詞概括了前述的所有概念。

Jihad may at times take the form of fighting,

聖戰有時的確透過打鬥的形式，

but only sometimes,

但只是有時候，

under strict conditions,

存在於嚴格的條件、

within rules and limits.

規則與限制之下。

In Islam,

伊斯蘭教相信，

the benefit of an act must outweigh the harm or hardship it entails.

一個行為帶來的好處， 必須大於其將帶來的傷害。

More importantly,

更重要的是，

the verses in the Koran that are connected to jihad or fighting

可蘭經中對於聖戰或打鬥的描述，

do not cancel out the verses that talk about forgiveness,

不能抵消經文中對於饒恕、

benevolence

仁愛、

or patience.

以及耐心的價值。

But now I believe that there are no circumstances on earth

現在我相信地球上沒有任何地方

where violent jihad is permissible,

會允許暴力性的聖戰，

because it will lead to greater harm.

因為這只會帶來更大的傷害。

But now the idea of jihad has been hijacked.

但如今聖戰的定義被劫持去了。

It has been perverted to mean violent struggle

它反常地代表了暴力性的鬥爭：

wherever Muslims are undergoing difficulties,

每當穆斯林遇到困難，

and turned into terrorism

就會因為像是蓋達、

by fascistic Islamists like al-Qaeda,

伊斯蘭國等法西斯伊斯蘭教徒

Islamic State and others.

而變成恐怖份子。

But I have come to understand

但我現在瞭解了，

that true jihad means striving to the utmost

真正的聖戰代表了盡全力

to strengthen and live those qualities which God loves:

加強並活出真主所喜愛的特質：

honesty, trustworthiness,

正直、信賴、

compassion, benevolence,

同情、仁愛、

reliability, respect,

可靠、尊重、

truthfulness --

和真誠──

human values that so many of us share.

這都是眾人所共享的價值觀。

I was born in Bangladesh,

我出生於孟加拉，

but grew up mostly in England.

但多數時間在英國長大。

And I went to school here.

也在這裡就學。

My father was an academic,

我父親是位學者，

and we were in the UK through his work.

我們因為他的工作來到英國。

In 1971 we were in Bangladesh when everything changed.

1971 年我們在孟加拉， 一切風雲變色。

The War of Independence impacted upon us terribly,

獨立戰爭嚴重衝擊我們，

pitting family against family,

造成家家對立，

neighbor against neighbor.

鄰里反目成仇。

And at the age of 12 I experienced war,

我 12 歲時就經歷了戰爭、

destitution in my family,

家道中落、

the deaths of 22 of my relatives in horrible ways,

22 位親戚慘死，

as well as the murder of my elder brother.

同時我哥哥被謀殺。

I witnessed killing ...

我見證了殺戮…

animals feeding on corpses in the streets,

動物啃食街道上的屍體，

starvation all around me,

大家莫不飢餓難耐，

wanton, horrific violence --

還有可怕的暴行肆虐——

senseless violence.

無謂的暴行。

I was a young man,

我那時還年輕，

teenager, fascinated by ideas.

為各種想法著迷。

I wanted to learn,

我想學習，

but I could not go to school for four years.

但我整整 4 年無法就學。

After the War of Independence,

獨立戰爭之後，

my father was put in prison for two and a half years,

我父親坐了兩年半的牢。

and I used to visit him every week in prison,

我每個禮拜都去探監，

and homeschooled myself.

並在家自學。

My father was released in 1973

我父親於 1973 年被釋放，

and he fled to England as a refugee,

他以難民的身分逃去英國，

and we soon followed him.

我們之後也跟著他去。

I was 17.

我那年 17 歲。

So these experiences gave me

這些經驗

a sharp awareness of the atrocities and injustices in the world.

讓我清楚地意識到 世界上的暴行和不公不義。

And I had a strong desire --

而我產生強烈的慾望──

a very keen, deep desire --

深至心坎的強烈慾望──

to right wrongs

要修正錯誤，

and help the victims of oppression.

並幫助受壓迫的人們。

While studying at college in the UK,

當我在英國讀大學時，

I met others who showed me how I could channel that desire

我遇到了能教我實現願望的人，

and help through my religion.

他們將透過我的信仰幫忙。

And I was radicalized --

而我就被激進化了──

enough to consider violence correct,

這足以將暴力合理化，

even a virtue under certain circumstances.

在一些情況下， 甚至認為這是種美德。

So I became involved in the jihad in Afghanistan.

所以我參加了在阿富汗的聖戰。

I wanted to protect the Muslim Afghan population against the Soviet army.

我想保護阿富汗的穆斯林人口 對抗蘇聯軍隊。

And I thought that was jihad:

我認為這就是聖戰：

my sacred duty,

我的天職，

which would be rewarded by God.

將為真主所讚揚。

I became a preacher.

我成了傳教者。

I was one of the pioneers of violent jihad in the UK.

我是英國暴力聖戰的先鋒。

I recruited,

我招募、

I raised funds, I trained.

我集資、我訓練。

I confused true jihad

我將真正的聖戰，

with this perversion as presented by the fascist Islamists --

和法西斯伊斯蘭教徒 所提出的偏差聖戰搞混了。

these people who use the idea of jihad

這些人假聖戰之名

to justify their lust for power, authority and control on earth:

將他們對一統天下的慾望合理化：

a perversion perpetuated today by fascist Islamist groups

這種偏差思想 被激進伊斯蘭組織延續至今，

like al-Qaeda, Islamic State and others.

像是蓋達、伊斯蘭國等。

For a period of around 15 years,

大概有 15 年的時間，

I fought for short periods of time

我除了在阿富汗，

in Kashmir and Burma,

還在喀什米爾和緬甸

besides Afghanistan.

做短暫的攻擊。

Our aim was to remove the invaders,

我們的目標是驅除侵略者，

to bring relief to the oppressed victims

解放受壓迫的人，

and of course to establish an Islamic state,

當然還有建立伊斯蘭版圖，

a caliphate for God's rule.

一個由真主統治的哈里發國。

And I did this openly.

我公開地做這些事。

I didn't break any laws.

我沒犯任何一條法律。

I was proud and grateful to be British --

我以身為英國人為榮──

I still am.

至今我仍然如此。

And I bore no hostility against this, my country,

過去我對這裡， 對我的國家沒有敵意，

nor enmity towards the non-Muslim citizens,

對非穆斯林也沒有敵意，

and I still don't.

我現在還是沒有。

During one battle in Afghanistan,

在阿富汗的一次打鬥當中，

some British men and I formed a special bond

我和一些英國人 對一位 15 歲的阿富汗男孩

with a 15-year-old Afghani boy,

產生了特別的連結。

Abdullah,

他叫阿布杜拉，

an innocent, loving and lovable kid

是個純真、討喜的孩子，

who was always eager to please.

永遠都是那麼願意提供協助。

He was poor.

他很窮。

And boys like him did menial tasks in the camp.

像他一樣的男孩在營區 都負責卑微的工作，

And he seemed happy enough,

但他看起來心滿意足，

but I couldn't help wonder --

但我不禁想到

his parents must have missed him dearly.

他的家長一定非常想念他。

And they must have dreamt about a better future for him.

他們也一定曾為他 夢想過更好的未來。

A victim of circumstance caught up in a war,

這是戰爭下的受害者，

cruelly thrust upon him

殘酷的社會條件

by the cruel circumstances of the time.

無情地襲擊至他身上。

One day I picked up this unexploded mortar shell in a trench,

一天我在壕溝撿起 一個未爆的迫擊砲彈，

and I had it deposited in a makeshift mud hut lab.

並將之放在一個 臨時搭建的土屋實驗室，

And I went out on a short, pointless skirmish --

然後就出去打一場 毫無意義的小戰鬥──

always pointless,

爭鬥一直以來都毫無意義──

And I came back a few hours later to discover he was dead.

幾個小時後我回來，男孩已經死了。

He had tried to recover explosives from that shell.

他試圖取出裡面的炸藥，

It exploded, and he died a violent death,

然後就被炸死了，

blown to bits by the very same device that had proved harmless to me.

被我認為無害的那個裝置 炸得灰飛煙滅。

So I started to question.

我開始問，

How did his death serve any purpose?

他的死有任何意義嗎？

Why did he die and I lived?

為什麼他死了我卻活了下來？

I carried on.

日子繼續下去。

I fought in Kashmir.

我在喀什米爾打仗。

I also recruited for the Philippines,

我也為菲律賓、

Bosnia and Chechnya.

波士尼亞和車臣招募新成員。

And the questions grew.

然而疑問愈來愈多。

Later in Burma,

之後在緬甸，

I came across Rohingya fighters,

我遇到羅興亞人戰士，

who were barely teenagers,

他們幾乎都是青少年，

born and brought up in the jungle,

在叢林裡長大成人，

carrying machine guns and grenade launchers.

他們帶著機槍和手榴彈。

I met two 13-year-olds with soft manners and gentle voices.

我遇到兩個 13 歲， 彬彬有禮、口氣平順的孩子。

Looking at me,

他們看著我，

they begged me to take them away to England.

求我帶他們去英國。

They simply wanted to go to school --

他們只是單純地想上學──

that was their dream.

這對他們來說是夢想。

My family --

我的家人──

my children of the same age --

跟他們同齡的小孩──

were living at home in the UK,

都住在英國，

going to school,

正常就學，

living a safe life.

生活安穩。

And I couldn't help wonder

我不禁納悶，

how much these young boys must have spoken to one another

有多少這樣的男孩，得跟其他人

about their dreams for such a life.

表露他們對這種生活的渴望。

Victims of circumstances:

時局下的受害者：

these two young boys,

這兩個男孩，

sleeping rough on the ground, looking up at the stars,

躺在粗糙的地上，仰望繁星，

cynically exploited by their leaders

被他們的領導者肆無忌憚的利用，

for their personal lust for glory and power.

只為了滿足他們 對權力和虛榮的慾望。

I soon witnessed boys like them killing one another

我不久就見到這些男孩

in conflicts between rival groups.

因為敵對群體的紛爭自相殘殺。

And it was the same everywhere ...

而且到處都一樣──

Afghanistan, Kashmir, Burma,

阿富汗、喀什米爾、緬甸

Philippines, Chechnya;

菲律賓、車臣；

petty warlords got the young and vulnerable to kill one another

小軍閥讓年輕人和弱勢者

以聖戰之名自相殘殺。

in the name of jihad.

Muslims against Muslims.

穆斯林對抗穆斯林。

Not protecting anyone against invaders or occupiers;

既不是對抗入侵者或占領者；

not bringing relief to the oppressed.

也沒有解救受壓迫的人民。

Children being used,

小孩被利用，

cynically exploited;

肆無忌憚的剝削；

people dying in conflicts

人們死於衝突，

which I was supporting in the name of jihad.

而我以聖戰之名支援這些紛爭。

And it still carries on today.

時至今日這些情況還是存在。

Realizing that the violent jihad

我驚覺到我在海外

I had engaged in abroad

所參與的暴力聖戰，

was so different --

跟我內心所想的完全不同。

such a chasm between what I had experienced

我所經歷的，和我認為的神聖天職

and what I thought was sacred duty --

有極大的斷層。

I had to reflect on my activities here in the UK.

我得反思我在英國這裡的行為。

I had to consider my preaching,

我得承認我的傳教、

recruiting, fund-raising,

招募、集資、

training,

訓練，

but most importantly, radicalizing --

還有最重要的，激進化──

sending young people to fight and die

也就是送年輕人去戰死

as I was doing --

這些事──

all totally wrong.

大錯特錯。

So I got involved in violent jihad in the mid '80s,

我在 80 年代中期參與暴力聖戰，

starting with Afghanistan.

從阿富汗發跡，

And by the time I finished it was in the year 2000.

而這一切止於 2000 年。

I was completely immersed in it.

我那時沉浸在聖戰之中。

All around me people supported,

我身邊的人都支持我、

applauded,

贊同我、

even celebrated what we were doing in their name.

甚至慶祝我們的所作所為。

But by the time I learned to get out,

但當我覺醒時，

completely disillusioned in the year 2000,

在 2000 年徹底幻滅時，

15 years had passed.

已經 15 年過去了。

So what goes wrong?

哪裡出錯了？

We were so busy talking about virtue,

我們忙著談論美德，

and we were blinded by a cause.

並被理想所盲目。

And we did not give ourselves a chance to develop a virtuous character.

我們並沒有給自己機會 發展美善的性格。

We told ourselves we were fighting for the oppressed,

我們告訴自己 這是在為受苦受難的人奮鬥，

but these were unwinnable wars.

但這是場贏不了的戰爭。

We became the very instrument through which more deaths occurred,

我們成為死神的工具，

complicit in causing further misery

為了少數殘暴者的自私自利，

for the selfish benefit of the cruel few.

製造更多的悲劇。

So over time,

時間流逝，

a very long time,

過了好一陣子，

I opened my eyes.

我睜開雙眼，

I began to dare

我開始有勇氣

to face the truth,

面對真相，

to think,

開始思考，

to face the hard questions.

開始面對艱難的問題。

I got in touch with my soul.

我與我內心的靈魂接觸。

What have I learned?

那我學到了什麼？

That people who engage in violent jihadism,

參加暴力聖戰的人、

that people who are drawn to these types of extremisms,

墮入極端主義的人，

are not that different to everyone else.

其實並沒有與我們相差甚遠。

But I believe such people can change.

我相信那些人是可以改變的。

They can regain their hearts and restore them

他們能重拾本心，

by filling them with human values that heal.

能用療傷止痛的人性價值 填補心中的缺口。

When we ignore the realities,

當我們忽略現實，

we discover that we accept what we are told without critical reflection.

我們會毫無疑問地 接受被告知的東西。

And we ignore the gifts and advantages that many of us would cherish

我們也會忽視 眾所珍愛的天賦和優勢，

even for a single moment in their lives.

即便那僅占了生命的一小部分。

I engaged in actions I thought were correct.

我做了我認為對的事。

But now I began to question how I knew what I knew.

但我現在開始質疑 我怎麼知道我知道什麼。

I endlessly told others to accept the truth,

我無止盡地要眾人接受真理，

but I failed to give doubt its rightful place.

但我忘了質疑它的合宜性。

This conviction that people can change is rooted in my experience,

人能改變的信念 根深蒂固在我的經驗中，

my own journey.

也在我人生的旅途中。

Through wide reading,

透過廣泛閱讀、

reflecting,

反省、

contemplation, self-knowledge,

沉思、自我認知，

I discovered,

我發現，我了解到

I realized that Islamists' world of us and them is false and unjust.

我們與他們的伊斯蘭主義者世界 竟是如此錯誤與不公不義。

Through considering the uncertainties in all that we had asserted,

透過反思所有我們主張的事實，

to the inviolable truths,

反思我們認為不可侵犯、

incontestable truths,

無庸置疑的事實，

I developed a more nuanced understanding.

我產生了更深入細微的理解。

I realized that in a world crowded with variation and contradiction,

我發現在這充滿歧異與矛盾的世界，

foolish preachers,

愚昧的傳教者，

only foolish preachers like I used to be,

也只有像過去的我 這種愚昧的傳教者，

see no paradox in the myths and fictions they use to assert authenticity.

才會看不出他們所斷言的 真相其實充滿矛盾。

So I understood the vital importance of self-knowledge,

我理解了自我認知、

political awareness

政治意識、

and the necessity for a deep and wide understanding

及深入理解我們所作所為的必要性，

of our commitments and our actions,

及這些會如何影響他人，

how they affect others.

是何其的重要。

So my plea today to everyone,

所以我今天向大家懇求，

especially those who sincerely believe in Islamist jihadism ...

特別是真誠相信伊斯蘭聖戰的人，

refuse dogmatic authority;

要拒絕武斷性的權威；

let go of anger, hatred and violence;

放下憤怒、仇恨與暴戾之氣；

learn to right wrongs

學習不要以報復殘虐、

without even attempting to justify cruel, unjust and futile behavior.

不公正的行為來修正錯誤。

Instead create a few beautiful and useful things

去創造一些美麗實用的事物吧，

that outlive us.

讓我們淵遠流長，

Approach the world, life,

邁向嶄新世界，

with love.

一個充滿愛的世界。

Learn to develop

學習發展、

or cultivate your hearts

或培育你的心思，

to see goodness, beauty and truth in others and in the world.

在別人身上或這個世界發現真善美。

That way we do matter more to ourselves ...

如此一來，我們為了自己、

to each other,

為了他人、

to our communities

為了社會、

and, for me, to God.

對我來說，也為了真主， 就盡了份力。

This is jihad --

這就是聖戰──

my true jihad.

我真正的聖戰。

Thank you.

謝謝大家。

(Applause)

（掌聲）