Inside the mind of a former radical jihadist | Manwar Ali

翻译人员: Yan Gao 校对人员: JIAN CUI

Today I stand before you as a man who lives life to the full

今天我站在你们面前，

此时此刻，我是一个全心全意享受生活的人。

in the here and now.

But for a long time,

但曾有很长一段时间，

I lived for death.

我向死而生。

I was a young man who believed

我当时年轻，曾相信

that jihad is to be understood in the language of force and violence.

应该用武力和暴力来理解圣战。

I tried to right wrongs through power and aggression.

我尝试过用力量和侵略 来纠正别人的错误。

I had deep concerns for the suffering of others

我对他人的苦难深感忧虑，

and a strong desire to help and bring relief to them.

并有强烈的愿望想帮助他们解脱。

我以为，武装圣战是高贵的、

I thought violent jihad was noble,

chivalrous

侠义的行为，

and the best way to help.

是帮助他人最好的方式。

At a time when so many of our people --

有一段时间，我们中的很多人——

young people especially --

尤其是年轻人——

are at risk of radicalization

他们处于激进化的边缘，

through groups like al-Qaeda,

因为加入了基地、

伊斯兰国以及其他一些组织，

Islamic State and others,

when these groups are claiming

当时这些组织声称

that their horrific brutality and violence are true jihad,

他们那些恐怖的暴行是真正的圣战。

I want to say that their idea of jihad is wrong --

我只想说，他们的“圣战”的理解是错误的——

completely wrong --

完全是错的——

尽管当时，我对它的理解也不正确。

as was mine, then.

Jihad means to strive to one's utmost.

圣战意味着一个人要尽自己最大的努力，

It includes exertion and spirituality,

这包括了体力上和精神上的努力，

self-purification

包括了自我净化、

以及奉献精神。

and devotion.

It refers to positive transformation

它代表着通过学习、智慧 以及对真主的纪念，

through learning, wisdom and remembrance of God.

实现积极的转变。

The word jihad stands for all those meanings as a whole.

"圣战"一词囊括了所有这些意义。

Jihad may at times take the form of fighting,

圣战有时的确会采取战斗的形式，

but only sometimes,

但那只是有时候，

under strict conditions,

圣战是在严格的条件下进行的，

有着规则和限制。

within rules and limits.

In Islam,

在伊斯兰教中，

某种行动带来的益处必须 超过它所带来的无可避免的伤害和痛苦。

the benefit of an act must outweigh the harm or hardship it entails.

More importantly,

更重要的是，

与圣战或战斗有关的古兰经经文

the verses in the Koran that are connected to jihad or fighting

do not cancel out the verses that talk about forgiveness,

并未抵消那些谈论宽恕、

仁慈

benevolence

or patience.

或耐心的经文。

But now I believe that there are no circumstances on earth

但现在我相信，在这个世界上，

暴力的圣战在任何情况下 都是不可接受的，

where violent jihad is permissible,

because it will lead to greater harm.

因为它终将造成更大的伤害。

But now the idea of jihad has been hijacked.

然而现在圣战的意义已经被绑架了，

It has been perverted to mean violent struggle

每当穆斯林教徒遇到困难，

它便被曲解为暴力争斗，

wherever Muslims are undergoing difficulties,

and turned into terrorism

然后被法西斯伊斯兰教组织——

by fascistic Islamists like al-Qaeda,

比如基地组织、伊斯兰国及其他组织

Islamic State and others.

变成了恐怖主义。

但是现在我逐渐明白了，

But I have come to understand

that true jihad means striving to the utmost

真正的圣战意味着尽自己最大的努力，

to strengthen and live those qualities which God loves:

去强化、去培养那些真主所认同的品质：

honesty, trustworthiness,

诚实、守信、

compassion, benevolence,

同情、仁慈、

reliability, respect,

信赖、尊重、

truthfulness --

真诚——

human values that so many of us share.

这些我们共同认可的人类价值观。

I was born in Bangladesh,

我出生在孟加拉国，

but grew up mostly in England.

但大多在英格兰长大。

And I went to school here.

我在这里上的学，

My father was an academic,

我父亲是一个学者，

and we were in the UK through his work.

我们因为他的工作而生活在英国。

In 1971 we were in Bangladesh when everything changed.

1971年我们在孟加拉时，一切都变了。

The War of Independence impacted upon us terribly,

独立战争给我们带来巨大冲击，

pitting family against family,

致使家家对立，

neighbor against neighbor.

邻里反目。

And at the age of 12 I experienced war,

我在12岁时就经历了战争，

destitution in my family,

那时家里一贫如洗、

the deaths of 22 of my relatives in horrible ways,

22位亲人惨死，

as well as the murder of my elder brother.

而我的哥哥也遭遇谋杀。

我目睹了这些杀戮——

I witnessed killing ...

动物在大街上啃食尸体，

animals feeding on corpses in the streets,

starvation all around me,

我周围笼罩着饥饿，

wanton, horrific violence --

肆意的、可怕的暴力——

senseless violence.

也是毫无意义的暴力。

I was a young man,

我那是还年轻，

对各种思想着迷的少年。

teenager, fascinated by ideas.

我想学习，

I wanted to learn,

but I could not go to school for four years.

但我却无法上学，整整4年。

After the War of Independence,

独立战争之后，

my father was put in prison for two and a half years,

我父亲在监狱关了2年半，

and I used to visit him every week in prison,

我每周都去监狱探望他，

同时我在家自学。

and homeschooled myself.

1973年我父亲被释放，

My father was released in 1973

and he fled to England as a refugee,

之后他作为难民逃到了英格兰，

我们不久后也跟他去了英格兰。

and we soon followed him.

I was 17.

那时，我17岁。

So these experiences gave me

所以说，这所有的经历

a sharp awareness of the atrocities and injustices in the world.

让我深刻理解了这世上的暴力和不公。

And I had a strong desire --

而我强烈地希望——

十分强烈的、深刻的希望——

a very keen, deep desire --

to right wrongs

能够纠正这些错误，

and help the victims of oppression.

能够帮助这些被压迫的受害者。

While studying at college in the UK,

在英国上大学时，

I met others who showed me how I could channel that desire

我遇到了一些人，

他们告诉我该如何实现这些愿望 并通过我的信仰来帮忙。

and help through my religion.

And I was radicalized --

所以我被激进化了——

enough to consider violence correct,

激进到足以认为

某些情况下暴力是正确的甚至是美德。

even a virtue under certain circumstances.

So I became involved in the jihad in Afghanistan.

所以我参加了阿富汗的圣战。

I wanted to protect the Muslim Afghan population against the Soviet army.

我想保护阿富汗的穆斯林， 反抗苏联军队。

And I thought that was jihad:

我以为那就是圣战：

my sacred duty,

我的天职，

which would be rewarded by God.

而这将得到真主的赞扬。

I became a preacher.

我成了传教者。

I was one of the pioneers of violent jihad in the UK.

我是英国暴力圣战的前锋之一。

我招募、

I recruited,

I raised funds, I trained.

我募集资金、我组织训练。

I confused true jihad

我将真正的圣战

with this perversion as presented by the fascist Islamists --

与法西斯伊斯兰所提出的 歪曲的理念混为一谈。

these people who use the idea of jihad

这些人假借圣战之名

to justify their lust for power, authority and control on earth:

将他们一统天下的欲望合法化：

a perversion perpetuated today by fascist Islamist groups

今天的法西斯伊斯兰组织 如基地组织、伊斯兰国等

仍在坚持这种曲解。

like al-Qaeda, Islamic State and others.

For a period of around 15 years,

在约15年的时间里，

I fought for short periods of time

除了阿富汗，

in Kashmir and Burma,

我还在克什米尔和缅甸

短时间参战。

besides Afghanistan.

我们的目标是驱逐侵略者，

Our aim was to remove the invaders,

to bring relief to the oppressed victims

为遭受压迫的人们带来自由，

and of course to establish an Islamic state,

当然也要建立一个伊斯兰国家，

一个由真主统治的哈里发国。

a caliphate for God's rule.

And I did this openly.

我这么做是公开的。

I didn't break any laws.

我没有违反任何法律。

I was proud and grateful to be British --

身为英国人，我很自豪并充满感激——

I still am.

现在也是。

我对这个国家、自己的国家没有敌意，

And I bore no hostility against this, my country,

nor enmity towards the non-Muslim citizens,

对非穆斯林公民也没有敌意，

and I still don't.

现在依然没有。

During one battle in Afghanistan,

在阿富汗一场战役中，

some British men and I formed a special bond

几个英国男人和我

与一名15岁的阿富汗男孩 建立了特别的感情。

with a 15-year-old Afghani boy,

Abdullah,

男孩叫阿卜杜拉，

an innocent, loving and lovable kid

一个纯真、充满爱的好孩子，

他总是渴望逗别人开心。

who was always eager to please.

He was poor.

他很穷。

And boys like him did menial tasks in the camp.

像他这样的男孩在营区 做一些零碎工作。

And he seemed happy enough,

他看上去很开心，

but I couldn't help wonder --

但我忍不住想，

his parents must have missed him dearly.

他的父母一定很想念他。

And they must have dreamt about a better future for him.

他们肯定也曾为他 梦想过更好的未来。

A victim of circumstance caught up in a war,

他是困在战争中的环境牺牲品，

cruelly thrust upon him

时局的残酷

by the cruel circumstances of the time.

无情地强加给他。

One day I picked up this unexploded mortar shell in a trench,

有一天，我在壕沟里捡回 一个未爆炸的迫击炮弹，

and I had it deposited in a makeshift mud hut lab.

把它放在一个临时的 土屋实验室里。

And I went out on a short, pointless skirmish --

然后出去打了一场短暂的、 无意义的战斗——

always pointless,

那些一直都是没意义的——

And I came back a few hours later to discover he was dead.

几个小时后我回来发现他已经死了。

他想要从那个弹壳中取出炸药。

He had tried to recover explosives from that shell.

It exploded, and he died a violent death,

爆炸了，他死得很惨，

blown to bits by the very same device that had proved harmless to me.

被那个我认为无害的弹壳炸成碎片。

所以我开始质疑。

So I started to question.

How did his death serve any purpose?

他的死有什么意义吗？

Why did he die and I lived?

为什么他死了而我还活着？

I carried on.

我的日子继续。

我去克什米尔参战。

I fought in Kashmir.

I also recruited for the Philippines,

还为菲律宾、波斯尼亚和车臣

Bosnia and Chechnya.

进行招募。

And the questions grew.

疑惑也随之增长。

Later in Burma,

后来在缅甸，

I came across Rohingya fighters,

我遇到了罗奇亚战士，

他们几乎都是青少年，

who were barely teenagers,

born and brought up in the jungle,

在丛林中出生、长大，

抗着机关枪和手榴弹发射器。

carrying machine guns and grenade launchers.

我遇到了两个13岁的男孩， 他们很有礼貌，声音柔和。

I met two 13-year-olds with soft manners and gentle voices.

Looking at me,

他们看着我，

求我带他们去英国。

they begged me to take them away to England.

They simply wanted to go to school --

他们仅仅是想上学——

that was their dream.

上学就是他们的梦想。

My family --

我的家人——

my children of the same age --

跟他们年龄相仿的孩子们——

住在英国的家中，

were living at home in the UK,

每天去学校，

going to school,

living a safe life.

过着安全的生活。

And I couldn't help wonder

我不禁想知道，

这些年轻男孩对于这样的梦想生活，

how much these young boys must have spoken to one another

about their dreams for such a life.

互相交谈过多少次。

Victims of circumstances:

时局的受害者：

these two young boys,

这两个年轻的男孩，

露宿在地上，仰望繁星，

sleeping rough on the ground, looking up at the stars,

cynically exploited by their leaders

被他们的领导人疯狂地剥削，

for their personal lust for glory and power.

只为满足领导人 对荣耀和权力的欲望。

I soon witnessed boys like them killing one another

我很快见到像他们这样的男孩

在敌对团伙之间的冲突中相互杀害。

in conflicts between rival groups.

And it was the same everywhere ...

而且到处都是一样的——

Afghanistan, Kashmir, Burma,

阿富汗、克什米尔、缅甸、

Philippines, Chechnya;

菲律宾、车臣;

petty warlords got the young and vulnerable to kill one another

小军阀让年轻人和弱势者

in the name of jihad.

以圣战的名义互相残杀。

Muslims against Muslims.

穆斯林与穆斯林为敌。

Not protecting anyone against invaders or occupiers;

没有保护任何人抵抗侵略者或占领者；

也没有为受压迫的人带来自由。

not bringing relief to the oppressed.

Children being used,

孩子们被利用，

cynically exploited;

肆无忌惮地剥削；

people dying in conflicts

人们在冲突中死去，

which I was supporting in the name of jihad.

而这些正是我以圣战之名所拥护的冲突。

And it still carries on today.

而今天这些情况仍在继续。

Realizing that the violent jihad

我意识到自己在国外

I had engaged in abroad

参加的暴力圣战

was so different --

是完全不同的。

such a chasm between what I had experienced

我的亲身经历与我以为的神圣职责之间

有着巨大的鸿沟。

and what I thought was sacred duty --

I had to reflect on my activities here in the UK.

我必须反思我在英国的行为。

I had to consider my preaching,

我不得不反思我的传教、

recruiting, fund-raising,

招募、筹款、

training,

组织训练、

but most importantly, radicalizing --

但最重要的是激进化——

sending young people to fight and die

把年轻人送去战死，

as I was doing --

这些我所做的一切——

都彻头彻尾地错了。

all totally wrong.

So I got involved in violent jihad in the mid '80s,

我在80年代中期参加暴力圣战，

starting with Afghanistan.

始于阿富汗，

And by the time I finished it was in the year 2000.

直到2000年结束。

我完全沉浸在圣战里。

I was completely immersed in it.

All around me people supported,

我周围的人都支持我、

applauded,

赞同我、

even celebrated what we were doing in their name.

甚至用他们的名字庆祝我们所做所为。

但当我觉醒时，

But by the time I learned to get out,

在2000年彻底醒悟时，

completely disillusioned in the year 2000,

15 years had passed.

已经过去了15年。

So what goes wrong?

出了什么问题？

We were so busy talking about virtue,

我们忙于谈论美德，

我们被一个理由蒙蔽了。

and we were blinded by a cause.

And we did not give ourselves a chance to develop a virtuous character.

我们没有给自己发展优良品质的机会。

We told ourselves we were fighting for the oppressed,

我们告诉自己， 我们在为被压迫者而战，

but these were unwinnable wars.

而这些战争没有赢家。

We became the very instrument through which more deaths occurred,

我们变成了制造更多死亡的机器

complicit in causing further misery

同时为残暴的少数人的自私利益

造成更多悲剧。

for the selfish benefit of the cruel few.

So over time,

所以随着时间的推移，

a very long time,

很长一段时间之后，

I opened my eyes.

我睁开眼睛。

I began to dare

我开始敢于

面对真相，

to face the truth,

to think,

进行思考，

to face the hard questions.

以及面对尖锐的问题。

I got in touch with my soul.

我触摸到了自己的灵魂。

我学到了什么？

What have I learned?

That people who engage in violent jihadism,

那些参加暴力圣战的人，

that people who are drawn to these types of extremisms,

那些陷入极端主义的人，

are not that different to everyone else.

与其他人没有太多不同。

But I believe such people can change.

我相信这样的人可以改变。

用可疗伤治愈的人性价值观

They can regain their hearts and restore them

让他们重获初心，修复伤口。

by filling them with human values that heal.

当我们忽略现实情况时，

When we ignore the realities,

we discover that we accept what we are told without critical reflection.

我们发现自己被动接受了思想却 没有批判性的反思。

And we ignore the gifts and advantages that many of us would cherish

而且我们还会忽视许多人 所珍惜的天分和优势，

even for a single moment in their lives.

即使只在它生命中一闪而过。

I engaged in actions I thought were correct.

我做了我以为是正确的事。

But now I began to question how I knew what I knew.

但是现在我开始怀疑 我是怎么知道那些我所意识到的。

I endlessly told others to accept the truth,

我无休止地告诉别人接受真相，

but I failed to give doubt its rightful place.

但我却没有为质疑提供合理的地位。

This conviction that people can change is rooted in my experience,

人们可以改变的这种信念 植根于我的经验，

my own journey.

我的旅程。

Through wide reading,

通过广泛的阅读、

reflecting,

反省、

思考、自我认知，

contemplation, self-knowledge,

我发现，我意识到

I discovered,

I realized that Islamists' world of us and them is false and unjust.

我们和他们的伊斯兰世界 是错误的、不公正的。

Through considering the uncertainties in all that we had asserted,

通过将我们所有主张中的不确定性

to the inviolable truths,

都看作不可改变的事实、

毋庸置疑的事实，

incontestable truths,

I developed a more nuanced understanding.

我产生了更细微的理解。

I realized that in a world crowded with variation and contradiction,

我发现在这充满变化和矛盾的世界里，

foolish preachers,

愚昧的传教者，

只有像过去的我这种 愚昧的传教者，

only foolish preachers like I used to be,

才会看不出他们用来主张真理 的虚构和谎言中充满自相矛盾。

see no paradox in the myths and fictions they use to assert authenticity.

所以我明白了自我认知、

So I understood the vital importance of self-knowledge,

political awareness

政治意识是何等重要，

对自己的义务和行动、 及其对别人的影响

and the necessity for a deep and wide understanding

of our commitments and our actions,

进行深刻而广泛的了解

的必要性。

how they affect others.

So my plea today to everyone,

所以我今天恳请每个人，

特别是那些真诚相信伊斯兰圣战的人，

especially those who sincerely believe in Islamist jihadism ...

refuse dogmatic authority;

拒绝专断的权威；

let go of anger, hatred and violence;

放下愤怒、仇恨和暴戾;

学习改正错误，

learn to right wrongs

without even attempting to justify cruel, unjust and futile behavior.

根本不要尝试为残酷、不公 和徒劳的行为辩解。

Instead create a few beautiful and useful things

去创造一些比我们更持久的

美丽和实用的东西吧。

that outlive us.

Approach the world, life,

用爱

拥抱世界、生活。

with love.

学习发展

Learn to develop

or cultivate your hearts

或培养你的心灵，

to see goodness, beauty and truth in others and in the world.

看到别人和世界的真善美。

这样，我们对自己、

That way we do matter more to ourselves ...

对彼此、

to each other,

对我们的社会、

to our communities

and, for me, to God.

对我来说也是对真主 这才是更重要的。

这才是圣战——

This is jihad --

my true jihad.

我真正的圣战。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）