The secret US prisons you've never heard of before | Will Potter

Prevodilac: Ivana Korom Lektor: Mile Živković

Father Daniel Berrigan once said that "writing about prisoners

Otac Danijel Berigan jednom je rekao da je "pisanje o zatvorenicima

is a little like writing about the dead."

malo nalik pisanju o mrtvima."

I think what he meant is that we treat prisoners as ghosts.

Mislim da je hteo da kaže da zatvorenike tretiramo kao duhove.

They're unseen and unheard.

Oni se ne vide i ne čuju.

It's easy to simply ignore them

Lako je jednostavno ih ignorisati

and it's even easier when the government goes to great lengths to keep them hidden.

i čak je i lakše kada se vlada veoma trudi da ih drži skrivenima.

As a journalist, I think these stories

Kao novinar, mislim da su te priče

of what people in power do when no one is watching,

o tome šta ljudi na vlasti rade kada niko ne gleda,

are precisely the stories that we need to tell.

upravo one koje moramo da pričamo.

That's why I began investigating

Zato sam počeo da istražujem

the most secretive and experimental prison units in the United States,

najtajnije i najeksperimentalnije zatvorske jedinice u Sjedinjenim Državama,

for so-called "second-tier" terrorists.

za takozvane teroriste "drugog reda".

The government calls these units Communications Management Units or CMUs.

Vlada ove jedinice naziva Jedinicama za upravljanje komunikacijama, JUK.

Prisoners and guards call them "Little Guantanamo."

Zatvorenici i čuvari zovu ih "Mali Gvantanamo".

They are islands unto themselves.

One su ostrva za sebe.

But unlike Gitmo they exist right here, at home,

Ali za razliku od Gvantanama, one se nalaze ovde, kod kuće,

floating within larger federal prisons.

plutaju unutar većih federalnih zatvora.

There are 2 CMUs.

Postoje dva JUK-a.

One was opened inside the prison in Terre Haute, Indiana,

Jedna je otvorena unutar zatvora u Tera Hotu, Indijana,

and the other is inside this prison, in Marion, Illinois.

a druga je u ovom zatvoru, u Merionu, Ilinois.

Neither of them underwent the formal review process

Kada su otvarane, nijedna nije prošla

that is required by law when they were opened.

kroz formalni proces procene koji zahteva zakon.

CMU prisoners have all been convicted of crimes.

Svi zatvorenici JUK-a su osuđeni za zločine.

Some of their cases are questionable and some involve threats and violence.

Neki od tih slučajeva su sumnjivi, a neki uključuju pretnje i nasilje.

I'm not here to argue the guilt or innocence of any prisoner.

Nisam ovde da raspravljam o krivici ili nevinosti bilo kog zatvorenika.

I'm here because as Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall said,

Ovde sam jer je sudija Vrhovnog suda, Turgud Maršal, rekao:

"When the prisons and gates slam shut,

"Kada se zatvori i kapije s treskom zatvore,

prisoners do not lose their human quality."

zatvorenici ne gube svoju ljudskost."

Every prisoner I've interviewed has said there are three flecks of light

Svaki zatvorenik kog sam intervjuisao rekao je da u tami zatvora,

in the darkness of prison:

postoje tri zraka svetlosti:

phone calls,

telefonski pozivi,

letters

pisma

and visits from family.

i porodične posete.

CMUs aren't solitary confinement, but they radically restrict all of these

JUK nisu samice, ali ovo je strogo orgraničeno

to levels that meet or exceed the most extreme prisons in the United States.

na nivo koji je blizak ili strožiji od većine ekstremnih zatvora u SAD.

Their phone calls can be limited to 45 minutes a month,

Telefonski pozivi ograničeni su na 45 minuta mesečno,

compared to the 300 minutes other prisoners receive.

u poređenju sa 300 minuta koje imaju ostali zatvorenici.

Their letters can be limited to six pieces of paper.

Pisma mogu biti ograničena na 6 listova papira.

Their visits can be limited to four hours per month,

Posete mogu biti ograničene na četiri sata mesečno,

compared to the 35 hours that people like Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph

u poređenju sa 35 koje imaju oni poput bombaša Olimpijskog parka, Erika Rudolfa,

receive in the supermax.

u zatvoru sa maksimalnim obezbeđenjem.

On top of that, CMU visits are non-contact which means prisoners are not allowed

Povrh svega, posete u JUK su beskontaktne, što znači da zatvorenicima nije dozvoljeno

to even hug their family.

čak ni zagrle svoju porodicu.

As one CMU prisoner said,

Kako je jedan zatvorenik JUK-a rekao:

"We're not being tortured here, except psychologically."

"Ovde nas ne muče, osim psihološki."

The government won't say who is imprisoned here.

Vlada ne govori ko je ovde zatvoren.

But through court documents, open records requests

Ali kroz sudska dokumenta, zahteve za otvorenim zapisnicima

and interviews with current and former prisoners,

i intervjue sa trenutnim i bivšim zatvorenicima,

some small windows into the CMUs have opened.

otvorili su se mali prozori ka JUK-u.

There's an estimated 60 to 70 prisoners here,

U njima se nalazi otprilike 60 do 70 zatvorenika,

and they're overwhelmingly Muslim.

i pretežno su muslimani.

They include people like Dr. Rafil Dhafir,

Uključuju ljude kao što je dr Rafil Dafir,

who violated the economic sanctions on Iraq by sending medical supplies

koji je prekršio ekonomske sankcije sa Irakom, šaljući medicinske potrepštine

for the children there.

za tamošnju decu.

They've included people like Yassin Aref.

Tu su i ljudi poput Jasina Arefa.

Aref and his family fled to New York from Saddam Hussein's Iraq as refugees.

Aref je sa porodicom izbegao za Njujork iz Iraka Sadama Huseina.

He was arrested in 2004 as part of an FBI sting.

Uhapšen je 2004. u raciji koju je sproveo FBI.

Aref is an imam and he was asked to bear witness to a loan,

Aref je imam, i trebalo je da prisustvuje zajmu,

which is a tradition in Islamic culture.

što je tradicija u islamskoj kulturi.

It turned out that one of the people involved in the loan was trying to enlist

Ispostavilo se da je jedan od ljudi uključenih u zajam, pokušao da regrutuje

someone else in a fake attack.

nekog drugog za lažni napad.

Aref didn't know.

Aref nije znao.

For that, he was convicted

Za to je osuđen

of conspiracy to provide material support to a terrorist group.

za zaveru da materijalno podrži terorističku grupu.

The CMUs also include some non-Muslim prisoners.

JUK takođe imaju i neke nemuslimanske zatvorenike.

The guards call them "balancers,"

Čuvari ih zovu "balanserima",

meaning they help balance out the racial numbers,

jer pomažu da se izbalansiraju rasne razlike,

in hopes of deflecting law suits.

u nadi da će se izbeći tužbe.

These balancers include animal rights and environmental activists

Ovi balanseri uključuju aktiviste za prava životinja i životnu okolinu,

like Daniel McGowan.

kao što je Danijel Mekgovan.

McGowan was convicted of participating in two arsons

Mekgovan je osuđen za učešće u dva podmetanja požara

in the name of defending the environment

u ime odbrane životne okoline,

as part of the Earth Liberation Front.

u sklopu Fronta za oslobođenje Zemlje.

During his sentencing, he was afraid that he would be sent

Tokom njegove kazne, plašio se da će ga poslati

to a rumored secret prison for terrorists.

u ozloglašeni tajni zatvor za teroriste.

The judge dismissed all those fears,

Sudija je odbacio sve te strahove,

saying that they weren't supported by any facts.

rekavši da ih ne podržavaju nikakve činjenice.

But that might be because the government hasn't fully explained

Ali to je možda zato što vlada nije u potpunosti objasnila

why some prisoners end up in a CMU,

zašto neki zatvorenici završe u JUK,

and who is responsible for these decisions.

i ko je odgovoran za te odluke.

When McGowan was transferred, he was told

Kada je Mekgovan prebačen, rečeno mu je

it's because he is a "domestic terrorist,"

da je to zato što je "domaći terorista",

a term the FBI uses repeatedly when talking about environmental activists.

što je termin koji FBI koristi kada govori o aktivistima za životnu sredinu.

Now, keep in mind there are about 400 prisoners in US prisons

Zapamtite da u američkim zatvorima postoji oko 400 zatvorenika

who are classified as terrorists,

koji su klasifikovani kao teroristi,

and only a handful of them are in the CMUs.

a samo nekolicina se nalazi u JUK.

In McGowan's case, he was previously at a low-security prison

U slučaju Mekgovana, on se prethodno nalazio u zatvoru minimalnog obezbeđenja

and he had no communications violations.

i nije imao prekršaje komunikacije.

So, why was he moved?

Pa zašto je onda prebačen?

Like other CMU prisoners,

Kao i drugi zatvorenici JUK-a,

McGowan repeatedly asked for an answer, a hearing,

on je neprestano tražio odgovor, saslušanje,

or some opportunity for an appeal.

neku priliku da uloži žalbu.

This example from another prisoner shows how those requests are viewed.

Ovaj primer jednog drugog zatvorenika pokazuje kako se tretiraju takvi zahtevi.

"Wants a transfer." "Told him no."

"Traži premeštaj." "Rekli mu da ne može."

At one point, the prison warden himself recommended McGowan's transfer

U jednom trenutku je sam upravnik zatvora preporučio Mekgovana za premeštaj

out of the CMU citing his good behavior,

iz JUK-a, navodeći njegovo dobro vladanje,

but the warden was overruled

ali njega je odbio

by the Bureau of Prison's Counterterrorism Unit,

Biro zatvorske protivterorističke jedinice

working with the Joint Terrorism Task Force of the FBI.

koji radi sa Ujedinjenim timom za terorizam, iz FBI-ja.

Later I found out that McGowan was really sent to a CMU

Kasnije sam saznao da je Mekgovan poslat u JUK

not because of what he did,

ne zbog toga što je uradio,

but what he has said.

nego zbog onog što je rekao.

A memo from the Counterterrorism Unit cited McGowan's "anti-government beliefs."

Memorandum Protivterorističke jedinice

naveo je Mekgovanova "uverenja protiv vlade".

While imprisoned, he continued writing about environmental issues,

Dok je bio u zatvoru, nastavio je da piše o pitanjima životne sredine,

saying that activists must reflect on their mistakes

govoreći da aktivisti moraju da nauče iz svojih grešaka

and listen to each other.

i da slušaju jedni druge.

Now, in fairness, if you've spent any time at all in Washington, DC,

Iskreno, ako ste proveli neko vreme u Vašingtonu,

you know this is really a radical concept for the government.

znate da je ovo za vladu veoma radikalan koncept.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I actually asked to visit McGowan in the CMU.

Tražio sam da posetim Mekgovana u JUK-u.

And I was approved.

I odobreno mi je.

That came as quite a shock.

Ovo je bio pravi šok.

First, because as I've discussed on this stage before,

Prvo, kao što sam već govorio sa ove bine,

I learned that the FBI has been monitoring my work.

zato što sam saznao da FBI prati moj rad.

Second, because it would make me the first and only journalist to visit a CMU.

Drugo, zato što bih tako bio prvi i jedini novinar koji je posetio JUK.

I had even learned

Čak sam i saznao,

through the Bureau of Prisons Counterterrorism Unit,

kroz Biro zatvorske protivterorističke jedinice,

that they had been monitoring my speeches about CMUs, like this one.

da oni prate moje govore o JUK-u, kao što je ovaj.

So how could I possibly be approved to visit?

Kako su mi onda uopšte odobrili posetu?

A few days before I went out to the prison, I got an answer.

Saznao sam nekoliko dana pre nego što sam otišao u zatvor.

I was allowed to visit McGowan as a friend, not a journalist.

Dozvoljeno mi je da posetim Mekgovana kao prijatelj, ne kao novinar.

Journalists are not allowed here.

Novinarima tamo nije dozvoljeno.

McGowan was told by CMU officials that if I asked any questions

Zvaničnici JUK-a su rekli Mekgovanu da ako pokušam da ga pitam nešto

or published any story,

ili ako objavim neku priču,

that he would be punished for my reporting.

on će biti kažnjen za moje izveštavanje.

When I arrived for our visit, the guards reminded me

Kada sam došao u posetu, čuvari su me podsetili

that they knew who I was and knew about my work.

da znaju ko sam i znaju za moj rad.

And they said that if I attempted to interview McGowan,

I onda su rekli da, ako pokušam da intervjuišem Mekgovana,

the visit would be terminated.

poseta će biti prekinuta.

The Bureau of Prisons describes CMUs as "self-contained housing units."

Zatvorski biro opisuje JUK kao "nezavisne životne jedinice".

But I think that's an Orwellian way of describing black holes.

Ali mislim da je to orvelovski način za opisivanje crnih rupa.

When you visit a CMU,

Kada posetite JUK,

you go through all the security checkpoints that you would expect.

prolazite kroz svo obezbeđenje koje biste očekivali.

But then the walk to the visitation room is silent.

Ali prolaz do sobe za posete je tih.

When a CMU prisoner has a visit, the rest of the prison is on lockdown.

Kada zatvorenik JUK-a ima posetu, ostatak zatvora je zatvoren.

I was ushered into a small room,

Mene su ugurali u malu sobu,

so small my outstretched arms could touch each wall.

toliko malu da sam ispruženim rukama mogao da dodirnem zidove.

There was a grapefruit-sized orb in the ceiling

Na tavanici se nalazila lopta veličine grejpfruta,

for the visit to be live-monitored by the Counterterrorism Unit

kako bi posetu pratila protivteroristička jedinica

in West Virginia.

u Zapadnoj Virdžiniji.

The unit insists that all the visits have to be in English for CMU prisoners,

Jedinica insistira da sve posete moraju biti na engleskom jeziku,

which is an additional hardship for many of the Muslim families.

što je dodatna teškoća za mnoge muslimanske porodice.

There is a thick sheet of foggy, bulletproof glass

Tu je i debelo, zamagljeno staklo otporno na metke,

and on the other side was Daniel McGowan.

a sa druge strane bio je Danijel Mekgovan.

We spoke through these handsets attached to the wall

Govorili smo preko slušalica koje su prikačene na zid

and talked about books and movies.

i pričali smo o knjigama i filmovima.

We did our best to find reasons to laugh.

Dali smo sve od sebe da pronađemo razloge da se smejemo.

To fight boredom and amuse himself while in the CMU,

U borbi protiv dosade i da bi se zabavio dok je u JUK,

McGowan had been spreading a rumor that I was secretly the president

Mekgovan je širio trač da sam ja tajni predsednik

of a Twilight fan club in Washington, DC

kluba ljubitelja serijala "Twilight", u Vašingtonu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

For the record, I'm not.

Zvanično kažem - nisam.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But I kind of the hope the FBI now thinks that Bella and Edward

Ali nadam se da FBI sada misli sa su Bela i Edvard

are terrorist code names.

lažna imena terorista.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

During our visit, McGowan spoke most and at length about his niece Lily,

Tokom moje posete, Mekgovan je najviše govorio o svojoj nećaci Lili,

his wife Jenny and how torturous it feels to never be able to hug them,

svojoj ženi Dženi i kako je mučan osećaj da nikada ne može da ih zagrli,

to never be able to hold their hands.

nikada da ih uhvati za ruku.

Three months after our visit, McGowan was transferred out of the CMU

Tri meseca nakon te posete, Mekgovan je prebačen iz JUK-a

and then, without warning, he was sent back again.

i onda, bez upozorenja, ponovo poslat nazad.

I had published leaked CMU documents on my website

Na svom sajtu sam objavio procurele dokumente JUK-a,

and the Counterterrorism Unit said that McGowan had called his wife

i Prtivteroristička jedinica je rekla da je Mekgovan zvao svoju ženu

and asked her to mail them.

i tražio da mu ih pošalje.

He wanted to see what the government was saying about him,

Želeo je da vidi šta vlada govori o njemu,

and for that he was sent back to the CMU.

i zbog toga je poslat nazad u JUK.

When he was finally released at the end of his sentence,

Kada je konačno oslobođen, kad je odslužio kaznu,

his story got even more Kafkaesque.

njegova priča postala je još više kafkijanska.

He wrote an article for the Huffington Post headlined,

Za "Huffington Post" je napisao članak sa naslovom:

"Court Documents Prove I was Sent to a CMU for my Political Speech."

"Sudska dokumenta dokazuju da sam u JUK poslat zbog svog političkog govora".

The next day he was thrown back in jail for his political speech.

Sledećeg dana je bačen nazad u zatvor zbog svog političkog govora.

His attorneys quickly secured his release,

Njegovi advokati su ubrzo izvojevali njegovo oslobođenje,

but the message was very clear:

ali je poruka bila jasna:

Don't talk about this place.

ne pričaj o ovom mestu.

Today, nine years after they were opened by the Bush administration,

Danas, devet godina nakon što ih je Bušova administracija otvorila,

the government is codifying how and why CMUs were created.

vlada objašnjava kako i zašto su JUK osnovane.

According to the Bureau of Prisons,

Prema Zatvorskom birou,

they are for prisoners with "inspirational significance."

one su za zatvorenike od "izuzetnog značaja".

I think that is very nice way of saying these are political prisons

Mislim da je to veoma lep način da se kaže da su to politički zatvori

for political prisoners.

za političke zatvorenike.

Prisoners are sent to a CMU because of their race,

Zatvorenici se šalju u JUK zbog svoje rase,

their religion or their political beliefs.

svoje religije ili političkih ubeđenja.

Now, if you think that characterization is too strong,

Ako mislite da je takva karakterizacija prejaka,

just look at some of the government's own documents.

pogledajte neke od vladinih dokumenata.

When some of McGowan's mail was rejected by the CMU, the sender was told

Kada je JUK odbila neku Mekgovanovu poštu, pošiljaocu je rečeno

it's because the letters were intended "for political prisoners."

da je to zato što su pisma namenjena "političkim zatvorenicima".

When another prisoner, animal rights activist Andy Stepanian,

Jedan drugi zatvorenik, aktivista za prava životinja, Endi Stepanijan,

was sent to a CMU, it was because of his anti-government and anti-corporate views.

poslat je u JUK zbog svojih antirežimskih i anti-korporacijskih stavova.

Now, I know all of this may be hard to believe,

Znam da je možda teško poverovati u sve ovo,

that it's happening right now, and in the United States.

da se dešava sada i u Sjedinjenim Državama.

But the unknown reality is that the US has a dark history

Ali poznato je da SAD ima mračnu istoriju

of disproportionately punishing people because of their political beliefs.

neproporcionalog kažnjavanja ljudi zbog njihovih političkih uverenja.

In the 1960s, before Marion was home to the CMU,

1960-ih godina, pre nego što je Merion bio dom JUK-a,

it was home to the notorious Control Unit.

bio je dom ozloglašene Kontrolne jedinice.

Prisoners were locked down in solitary for 22 hours a day.

Zatvorenici su zatvarani u samice na 22 sata dnevno.

The warden said the unit was to "control revolutionary attitudes."

Upravnik je rekao da je jedinica "kontrolisala revolucionarne stavove".

In the 1980s, another experiment called the Lexington High Security Unit

Osamdesetih, jedan drugi eksperiment zvani Leksington visokobezbedna jedinica,

held women connected to the Weather Underground,

držao je žene povezane sa "Weather Underground",

Black Liberation and Puerto Rican independent struggles.

Crnačkim oslobođenjem i Portorikanskim nezavisnim pokretima.

The prison radically restricted communication and used sleep deprivation,

Taj zatvor je radikalno ograničio komunikaciju i koristio uskraćivanje sna

and constant light for so-called "ideological conversion."

i konstantno osvetljenje za takozvano "ideološko preobraženje".

Those prisons were eventually shut down, but only through the campaigning

Ti zatvori su na kraju zatvoreni, ali samo uz pomoć kampanja

of religious groups and human rights advocates, like Amnesty International.

religijskih grupa i zastupnika ljudskih prava,

kao što je Amnesty International.

Today, civil rights lawyers with the Center for Constitutional Rights

Danas, advokati za ljudska prava sa Centrom za ustavna prava

are challenging CMUs in court

suprotstavljaju se JUK-u na sudu

for depriving prisoners of their due process rights

zbog uskraćivanja zatvorenicima prava na pravično suđenje

and for retaliating against them

i zbog osvete prema zatvorenicima

for their protected political and religious speech.

zbog njihovih zaštićenih političkih i religioznih govora.

Many of these documents would have never come to light without this lawsuit.

Mnogi od ovih dokumenata se nikada ne bi pojavili bez ove tužbe.

The message of these groups and my message for you today

Poruka ovih grupa, i moja poruka vama danas

is that we must bear witness to what is being done to these prisoners.

je da moramo biti svedoci tome šta se radi ovim zatvorenicima.

Their treatment is a reflection of the values held beyond prison walls.

Ophođenje prema njima oslikava vrednosti koje važe van zatvorskih zidina.

This story is not just about prisoners.

Ova priča nije samo o zatvorenicima.

It is about us.

Ona je o nama.

It is about our own commitment to human rights.

O našoj ličnoj posvećenosti ljudskim pravima.

It is about whether we will choose to stop repeating the mistakes of our past.

O našem izboru da prestanemo da ponavljamo greške iz naše prošlosti.

If we don't listen to what Father Berrigan described as the stories of the dead,

Ako ne slušamo ono što je Otac Berigan opisao kao priče o mrtvima,

they will soon become the stories of ourselves.

one će uskoro postati priče o nama.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

(Applause ends)

(Kraj aplauza)

Tom Rielly: I have a couple questions.

Tom Rajli: Imam par pitanja.

When I was in high school, I learned about the Bill of Rights,

U srednjoj školi sam učio o Ljudskim pravima,

the Constitution, freedom of speech,

o Ustavu, slobodi govora,

due process and about 25 other laws and rights

fer procesu i oko 25 drugih zakona i prava

that seem to be violated by this.

koja su ovim prekršena.

How could this possibly be happening?

Kako je moguće da se to dešava?

Will Potter: I think that's the number one question I get

Vil Poter: To je najčešće postavljano pitanje

throughout all of my work,

kroz moj celokupan rad,

and the short answer is that people don't know.

a kratak odgovor je da ljudi ne znaju.

I think the solution to any of these types of situations, any rights abuses,

Mislim da rešenje bilo kakve slične situacije, kršenja prava,

are really dependent on two things.

zapravo zavisi od dve stvari.

They're dependent on knowledge that it's actually happening

Zavisi od znanja da se to zaista dešava

and then a means and efficacy to actually make a change.

i potom od sredstava i efikasnosti da se nešto i promeni.

And unfortunately with these prisoners,

Nažalost, sa ovim zatvorenicima,

one, people don't know what's happening at all

prvo, ljudi uopšte ne znaju šta se dešava,

and then they're already disenfranchised populations

a onda to su već obespravljene populacije

who don't have access to attorneys, not native English speakers.

koje nemaju pristup advokatima, engleski im nije maternji jezik.

In some of these cases, they have great representation that I mentioned,

U nekim slučajevima kao što sam pomenuo, imaju odlične advokate,

but there's just not a public awareness of what's happening.

ali javnost nije dovoljno svesna šta se dešava.

TR: Isn't it guaranteed in prison that you have right to council

TR: Zar u zatvoru nije garantovano pravo na zastupnika

or access to council?

ili pristup zastupniku?

WP: There's a tendency in our culture

VP: U našoj kulturi postoji tendencija

to see when people have been convicted of a crime,

da se postaramo da, kada su ljudi osuđeni za zločin,

no matter if that charge was bogus or legitimate,

bilo da je ta optužba lažna ili legitimna,

that whatever happens to them after that is warranted.

da je sve što im se posle desi zagarantovano.

And I think that's a really damaging and dangerous narrative that we have,

Mislim da je taj narativ veoma štetan i opasan,

that allows these types of things to happen,

dozvoljava da se ovakve stvari dešavaju

as the general public just kind of turns a blind eye to it.

jer javnost samo zažmuri na to.

TR: All those documents on screen were all real documents, word for word,

TR: Sva dokumenta koja si pokazao su prava, svaka reč,

unchanged at all, right?

nepromenjena, je l' tako?

WP: Absolutely. I've actually uploaded all of them to my website.

VP: Apsolutno. Sve sam ih postavio na svoj sajt.

It's willpotter.com/CMU and it's a footnoted version of the talk,

Posetite willporter.com/CMU, to je verzija ovog govora sa beleškama,

so you can see the documents for yourself without the little snippets.

možete i sami videti dokumenta bez ovih malih isečaka.

You can see the full version.

Videćete potpune verzije.

I relied overwhelmingly on primary source documents

Prevashodno sam se oslanjao na dokumenta iz primarnih izvora

or on primary interviews with former and current prisoners,

ili na originalne intervjue sa bivšim i sadašnjim zatvorenicima,

with people that are dealing with this situation every day.

sa ljudima koji se ovim bave svakodnevno.

And like I said, I've been there myself, as well.

I kao što sam rekao, i sam sam bio tamo.

TR: You're doing courageous work.

TR: Baviš se hrabrim poslom.

WP: Thank you very much. Thank you all.

VP: Hvala mnogo. Hvala svima.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)