The secret US prisons you've never heard of before | Will Potter

Prevoditelj: Sanja Župan Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

Father Daniel Berrigan once said that "writing about prisoners

Svećenik Daniel Berrigan je rekao da je "pisanje o zatvorenicima

is a little like writing about the dead."

pomalo poput pisanja o mrtvima."

I think what he meant is that we treat prisoners as ghosts.

Htio je, mislim, reći da sa zatvorenicima postupamo kao s duhovima.

They're unseen and unheard.

Nevidljivi su i nečujni.

It's easy to simply ignore them

Lako ih je ignorirati

and it's even easier when the government goes to great lengths to keep them hidden.

i još je lakše kad se vlada silno trudi da ih sakrije.

As a journalist, I think these stories

Kao novinar smatram da su te priče

of what people in power do when no one is watching,

o tome što moćnici rade dok ih nitko ne gleda

are precisely the stories that we need to tell.

upravo one priče koje trebamo ispričati.

That's why I began investigating

Zato sam počeo istraživati

the most secretive and experimental prison units in the United States,

najtajnije i najeksperimentalnije zatvorske jedinice u Sjedinjenim Državama,

for so-called "second-tier" terrorists.

za tzv. teroriste "drugog reda".

The government calls these units Communications Management Units or CMUs.

Vlada te jedinice naziva Jedinicama za upravljanje komunikacijama ili JUK.

Prisoners and guards call them "Little Guantanamo."

Zatvorenici i stražari ih zovu "Mali Guantanamo."

They are islands unto themselves.

Oni su otoci unutar samih sebe.

But unlike Gitmo they exist right here, at home,

No za razliku od Guantanama, oni se nalaze ovdje, kod kuće,

floating within larger federal prisons.

plutaju unutar većih federalnih zatvora.

There are 2 CMUs.

Postoje 2 JUK-a.

One was opened inside the prison in Terre Haute, Indiana,

Jedan je otvoren unutar zatvora u Terre Haute u Indiani,

and the other is inside this prison, in Marion, Illinois.

a drugi se nalazi u ovom zatvoru u Marionu u Illinoisu.

Neither of them underwent the formal review process

Ni jedan nije prošao kroz službeni postupak provjere

that is required by law when they were opened.

što je zakonom obvezno, kad su otvoreni.

CMU prisoners have all been convicted of crimes.

Zatvorenici u JUK-u su redom osuđeni za zločine.

Some of their cases are questionable and some involve threats and violence.

Neki od njihovih slučajeva su upitni, a neki uključuju prijetnje i nasilje.

I'm not here to argue the guilt or innocence of any prisoner.

Nisam tu da dokažem krivnju ili nevinost ikojeg zatvorenika.

I'm here because as Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall said,

Tu sam jer, kao što je rekao sudac Vrhovnog suda Thurgood Marshall:

"When the prisons and gates slam shut,

"Kad se zalupe vrata zatvora

prisoners do not lose their human quality."

zatvorenici ne gube svoje ljudske osobine."

Every prisoner I've interviewed has said there are three flecks of light

Svaki zatvorenik kojeg sam intervjuirao je rekao da postoje tri točkice svjetlosti

in the darkness of prison:

u zatvorskom mraku:

phone calls,

telefonski pozivi,

letters

pisma

and visits from family.

i posjete obitelji.

CMUs aren't solitary confinement, but they radically restrict all of these

JUK-ovi nisu samice, ali oni radikalno ograničavaju sve troje

to levels that meet or exceed the most extreme prisons in the United States.

do te mjere da se izjednačuju sa ili premašuju najekstremnije zatvore u SAD-u.

Their phone calls can be limited to 45 minutes a month,

Telefonski razgovori im mogu biti ograničeni na 45 minuta mjesečno,

compared to the 300 minutes other prisoners receive.

u usporedbi s 300 minuta koje dobivaju drugi zatvorenici.

Their letters can be limited to six pieces of paper.

Pisma im mogu biti ograničena na šest komada papira.

Their visits can be limited to four hours per month,

Posjete im mogu ograničiti na četiri sata mjesečno,

compared to the 35 hours that people like Olympic Park bomber Eric Rudolph

u usporedbi s 35 sati koje osobe poput Erica Rudolpha, bombaša na Olympic Park

receive in the supermax.

dobivaju u najsigurnijim zatvorima.

On top of that, CMU visits are non-contact which means prisoners are not allowed

Povrh toga, u posjeti je zabranjen kontakt što znači da zatvorenici ne smiju

to even hug their family.

niti zagrliti svoju obitelj.

As one CMU prisoner said,

Kao što je rekao jedan zatvorenik u JUK-u,

"We're not being tortured here, except psychologically."

"Ne muče nas ovdje, osim psihički."

The government won't say who is imprisoned here.

Vlada ne želi reći tko je ovdje zatvoren.

But through court documents, open records requests

Ali uz pomoć sudskih dokumenata, zahtjeva za objavljivanje sudskih spisa

and interviews with current and former prisoners,

i intervjua s trenutnim i bivšim zatvorenicima,

some small windows into the CMUs have opened.

otvorili su se neki mali prozori u JUK-ove.

There's an estimated 60 to 70 prisoners here,

Procjenjuje se da se tamo nalazi 60-70 zatvorenika,

and they're overwhelmingly Muslim.

i ogroman dio njih su muslimani.

They include people like Dr. Rafil Dhafir,

uključujući ljude poput dr. Rafil Dhafira

who violated the economic sanctions on Iraq by sending medical supplies

koji je prekršio ekonomske sankcije Iraku slanjem zaliha lijekova

for the children there.

za tamošnju djecu.

They've included people like Yassin Aref.

Uključujući ljude poput Yassina Arefa.

Aref and his family fled to New York from Saddam Hussein's Iraq as refugees.

Aref i njegova obitelji su pobjegli u New York iz Sadamovog Iraka, kao izbjeglice.

He was arrested in 2004 as part of an FBI sting.

Uhićen je 2004. u sklopu operacije FBI-ja.

Aref is an imam and he was asked to bear witness to a loan,

Aref je imam kojeg su zatražili da posvjedoči posudbi,

which is a tradition in Islamic culture.

što je tradicija u islamskoj kulturi.

It turned out that one of the people involved in the loan was trying to enlist

Ispalo je da je jedan od uključenih u posudbi pokušavao regrutirati

someone else in a fake attack.

nekog drugog u lažan napad.

Aref didn't know.

Aref za to nije znao.

For that, he was convicted

Radi toga je osuđen

of conspiracy to provide material support to a terrorist group.

zbog urote za pružanje materijalne potpore terorističkoj skupini.

The CMUs also include some non-Muslim prisoners.

JUK-ovi uključuju i zatvorenike koji nisu muslimani.

The guards call them "balancers,"

Stražari ih zovu "balanserima"

meaning they help balance out the racial numbers,

jer niveliraju razlike u broju pripadnika rasnih skupina,

in hopes of deflecting law suits.

čime se nastoje izbjeći sudske tužbe.

These balancers include animal rights and environmental activists

Ti balanseri uključuju aktiviste za prava životinja i za očuvanje okoliša

like Daniel McGowan.

poput Daniela McGowana.

McGowan was convicted of participating in two arsons

McGowan je osuđen radi sudjelovanja u podmetanju dvaju požara

in the name of defending the environment

u ime zaštite okoliša

as part of the Earth Liberation Front.

kao član Fronte za oslobođenje Zemlje.

During his sentencing, he was afraid that he would be sent

Tijekom izricanja kazne bojao se da će ga poslati

to a rumored secret prison for terrorists.

u tajni zatvor za teroriste o kojem je čuo priče.

The judge dismissed all those fears,

Sudac je odbacio sve te strahove

saying that they weren't supported by any facts.

rekavši da te priče nemaju uporišta u činjenicama.

But that might be because the government hasn't fully explained

Ali to bi moglo biti zato što vlada nije u potpunosti objasnila

why some prisoners end up in a CMU,

zašto neki zatvorenici završe u JUK-u,

and who is responsible for these decisions.

niti tko odlučuje o tome.

When McGowan was transferred, he was told

McGowana su premjestili objasnivši mu

it's because he is a "domestic terrorist,"

da je to zato što je "domaći terorist,"

a term the FBI uses repeatedly when talking about environmental activists.

pojam koji FBI učestalo koristi kad je riječ o aktivistima za očuvanje okoliša

Now, keep in mind there are about 400 prisoners in US prisons

Imajte na umu da se u Američkim zatvorima nalazi oko 400 zatvorenika

who are classified as terrorists,

koji su označeni kao teroristi,

and only a handful of them are in the CMUs.

a tek ih je šačica u JUK-ima.

In McGowan's case, he was previously at a low-security prison

Što se tiče McGowana, on je prethodno bio u zatvoru poluotvorenog tipa

and he had no communications violations.

i nije počinio nikakav komunikacijski prekršaj.

So, why was he moved?

I zašto je onda prebačen?

Like other CMU prisoners,

Poput drugih JUK zatvorenika

McGowan repeatedly asked for an answer, a hearing,

McGowan je opetovano zahtjevao odgovor, saslušanje

or some opportunity for an appeal.

ili neku priliku za žalbom.

This example from another prisoner shows how those requests are viewed.

Ovaj primjer od jednog drugog zatvorenika pokazuje kako se ti zahtjevi razmatraju.

"Wants a transfer." "Told him no."

"Hoće premještaj." "Rekli mu ne."

At one point, the prison warden himself recommended McGowan's transfer

Jednom je i sam zatvorski upravitelj preporučio McGowana za premještaj

out of the CMU citing his good behavior,

iz JUK-a radi dobrog ponašanja,

but the warden was overruled

ali je upravitelja nadglasao

by the Bureau of Prison's Counterterrorism Unit,

Ured zatvorske protuterorističke jedinice,

working with the Joint Terrorism Task Force of the FBI.

u suradnji s Ujedinjenom radnom skupinom FBI-ja protiv terorizma.

Later I found out that McGowan was really sent to a CMU

Kasnije sam saznao da je McGowan zapravo poslan u JUK

not because of what he did,

ne zbog onoga što je učinio,

but what he has said.

nego zbog onoga što je rekao.

A memo from the Counterterrorism Unit cited McGowan's "anti-government beliefs."

Dopis Protuterorističke jedinice navodi njegova "protuvladina uvjerenja."

While imprisoned, he continued writing about environmental issues,

U zatvoreništvu je nastavio pisati o okolišnim problemima,

saying that activists must reflect on their mistakes

tvrdeći da aktivisti moraju promišljati o svojim greškama

and listen to each other.

i slušati jedni druge.

Now, in fairness, if you've spent any time at all in Washington, DC,

Sad, iskreno, ako ste imalo vremena proveli u Washingtonu, DC,

you know this is really a radical concept for the government.

onda znate da je za vladu taj koncept zbilja radikalan.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I actually asked to visit McGowan in the CMU.

Zatražio sam dozvolu da posjetim McGowana u JUK.

And I was approved.

I dobio sam je.

That came as quite a shock.

Prilično me to šokiralo.

First, because as I've discussed on this stage before,

Prvo, zato što sam, kao što sam već ranije rekao na ovoj pozornici,

I learned that the FBI has been monitoring my work.

saznao da FBI prati moj rad.

Second, because it would make me the first and only journalist to visit a CMU.

Drugo, zato što bih time postao prvi i jedini novinar koji je posjetio JUK.

I had even learned

Saznao sam čak

through the Bureau of Prisons Counterterrorism Unit,

kroz Protuterorističku jedinicu Uprave za zatvorski sustav

that they had been monitoring my speeches about CMUs, like this one.

da su bili pratili moje govore o JUK-ima, poput ovoga.

So how could I possibly be approved to visit?

Kako je onda moguće da mi je odobren posjet?

A few days before I went out to the prison, I got an answer.

Nekoliko dana prije nego li sam posjetio zatvor, dobio sam odgovor.

I was allowed to visit McGowan as a friend, not a journalist.

Dozvoljeno mi je da posjetim McGowana kao prijatelj, a ne kao novinar.

Journalists are not allowed here.

Novinarima je pristup zabranjen.

McGowan was told by CMU officials that if I asked any questions

Službenici JUK-a su rekli McGowanu da će budem li postavljao ikakva pitanja

or published any story,

ili objavio ikakvu priču

that he would be punished for my reporting.

ga kazniti zbog mog izvještavanja.

When I arrived for our visit, the guards reminded me

Kad sam stigao u posjetu stražari su me podsjetili

that they knew who I was and knew about my work.

da znaju tko sam i što radim.

And they said that if I attempted to interview McGowan,

I rekli su da će, ako pokušam intervjuirati McGowana,

the visit would be terminated.

okončati posjet.

The Bureau of Prisons describes CMUs as "self-contained housing units."

Uprava za zatvorski sustav opisuje JUK-ove kao "samostalne smještajne jedinice."

But I think that's an Orwellian way of describing black holes.

Meni se čini da je to orvelovski način opisivanja crnih rupa.

When you visit a CMU,

Kad posjetite JUK,

you go through all the security checkpoints that you would expect.

idete kroz sve sigurnosne kontrolne točke koje biste i očekivali.

But then the walk to the visitation room is silent.

Ali je hod do sobe za posjete tih.

When a CMU prisoner has a visit, the rest of the prison is on lockdown.

Kad zatvorenik u JUK-u ima posjetu, ostatak zatvora je u blokadi.

I was ushered into a small room,

Uveli su me u sobičak,

so small my outstretched arms could touch each wall.

tako malen da sam rukama mogao doseći oba zida.

There was a grapefruit-sized orb in the ceiling

Na stropu se nalazila kugla veličine grejpa

for the visit to be live-monitored by the Counterterrorism Unit

putem koje je posjetu uživo nadzirala Protuteroristička jedinica

in West Virginia.

u Zapadnoj Virginiji.

The unit insists that all the visits have to be in English for CMU prisoners,

Jedinica inzistira na tome da svi posjeti JUK zatvorenicima moraju biti na engleskom

which is an additional hardship for many of the Muslim families.

što je dodatno otežavajuće za mnoge muslimanske obitelji.

There is a thick sheet of foggy, bulletproof glass

Iza debelog, mutnog stakla otpornog na metke,

and on the other side was Daniel McGowan.

nalazio se Daniel McGowan.

We spoke through these handsets attached to the wall

Razgovarali smo preko slušalica pričvršćenih za zid

and talked about books and movies.

i raspravljali o knjigama i filmovima.

We did our best to find reasons to laugh.

Trudili smo se najbolje što smo mogli da nađemo razloge za smijeh.

To fight boredom and amuse himself while in the CMU,

Kako bi ubio dosadu i zabavio se dok je u JUK-u,

McGowan had been spreading a rumor that I was secretly the president

McGowan je širio glasinu da sam tajni predsjednik

of a Twilight fan club in Washington, DC

fan kluba Sumraka u Washingtonu, DC

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

For the record, I'm not.

Nisam, čisto da se zna.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But I kind of the hope the FBI now thinks that Bella and Edward

Ali se nekako nadam da FBI sad misli da su Bella i Edward

are terrorist code names.

teroristička kodna imena.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

During our visit, McGowan spoke most and at length about his niece Lily,

Tijekom posjete McGowan je najviše i opširno pričao o svojoj nećakinji Lily,

his wife Jenny and how torturous it feels to never be able to hug them,

o svojoj supruzi Jenny i tome kako je mučno što ih nikad ne može zagrliti,

to never be able to hold their hands.

što ih nikad ne može držati za ruke.

Three months after our visit, McGowan was transferred out of the CMU

Tri mjeseca nakon našeg posjeta, McGowana su prebacili iz JUK-a

and then, without warning, he was sent back again.

i zatim, bez upozorenja poslali natrag.

I had published leaked CMU documents on my website

Na svojoj web stranici sam bio objavio dokumente od JUK-a koji su iscurili

and the Counterterrorism Unit said that McGowan had called his wife

i Protuteroristička jedinica je rekla da je McGowan nazvao suprugu

and asked her to mail them.

i zamolio je da mu ih pošalje.

He wanted to see what the government was saying about him,

Htio je vidjeti što vlada govori o njemu,

and for that he was sent back to the CMU.

i zbog toga su ga poslali natrag u JUK.

When he was finally released at the end of his sentence,

Kad je napokon pušten, nakon odsluženja kazne

his story got even more Kafkaesque.

njegova je priča postala još kafkijanskija.

He wrote an article for the Huffington Post headlined,

Napisao je članak za Huffington Post pod naslovom

"Court Documents Prove I was Sent to a CMU for my Political Speech."

"Sudski dokumenti dokazuju da sam poslan u JUK zbog svog političkog govora."

The next day he was thrown back in jail for his political speech.

Sljedeći dan je bačen natrag u zatvor zbog političkog govora.

His attorneys quickly secured his release,

Odvjetnici su hitno osigurali puštanje,

but the message was very clear:

ali je poruka bila vrlo jasna:

Don't talk about this place.

Nemoj pričati o ovom mjestu.

Today, nine years after they were opened by the Bush administration,

Danas, devet godina nakon što ih je Busheva administracija otvorila,

the government is codifying how and why CMUs were created.

vlada kodificira kako i zašto su JUK-ovi stvoreni.

According to the Bureau of Prisons,

Prema Upravi za zatvorski sustav,

they are for prisoners with "inspirational significance."

namijenjeni su zatvorenicima "inspirativne važnosti."

I think that is very nice way of saying these are political prisons

Smatram da je to jako lijep izraz za političke zatvore

for political prisoners.

za političke zatvorenike.

Prisoners are sent to a CMU because of their race,

Zatvorenike se šalje u JUK zbog njihove rase,

their religion or their political beliefs.

religije ili političkih uvjerenja.

Now, if you think that characterization is too strong,

E sad, ako mislite da je takvo obilježavanje prejako,

just look at some of the government's own documents.

samo pogledajte neke od vladinih dokumenata.

When some of McGowan's mail was rejected by the CMU, the sender was told

Kad je JUK odbio neka McGowanova pisma, pošiljatelju je objašnjeno

it's because the letters were intended "for political prisoners."

da je to stoga što su pisma bila namijenjena "političkim zatvorenicima."

When another prisoner, animal rights activist Andy Stepanian,

Kad je drugi zatvorenik, aktivist za prava životinja Andy Stepanian

was sent to a CMU, it was because of his anti-government and anti-corporate views.

poslan u JUK, to je bilo zbog njegovih stajališta protiv vlade i korporacija.

Now, I know all of this may be hard to believe,

Znam da je možda teško vjerovati svemu ovome,

that it's happening right now, and in the United States.

da se to događa upravo sada. i to u Sjedinjenim Državama.

But the unknown reality is that the US has a dark history

Ali nepoznata stvarnost je da SAD ima mračnu povijest

of disproportionately punishing people because of their political beliefs.

nesrazmjernog kažnjavanja ljudi zbog njihovih političkih uvjerenja.

In the 1960s, before Marion was home to the CMU,

Za vrijeme 60-ih, prije nego je Marion postao dom JUK-u,

it was home to the notorious Control Unit.

bio je dom zloglasne Kontrolne jedinice.

Prisoners were locked down in solitary for 22 hours a day.

Zatvorenici su bili zatvoreni u samicama 22 sata dnevno.

The warden said the unit was to "control revolutionary attitudes."

Upravitelj je rekao da je jedinica služila "kontroliranju revolucionarnih stavova."

In the 1980s, another experiment called the Lexington High Security Unit

Tijekom 80-ih, drugi eksperiment zvan Leksingtonška jedinica za visoku sigurnost

held women connected to the Weather Underground,

držao je žene povezane s Weather Underground,

Black Liberation and Puerto Rican independent struggles.

Black Liberation i borbama za nezavisnost Portorika.

The prison radically restricted communication and used sleep deprivation,

Taj zatvor je radikalno ograničavao komunikaciju i služio se uskraćivanjem sna

and constant light for so-called "ideological conversion."

i neprestanim osvjetljenjem radi tzv. "ideološke preobrazbe."

Those prisons were eventually shut down, but only through the campaigning

Ti su zatvori s vremenom zatvoreni, ali isključivo zahvaljujući borbi

of religious groups and human rights advocates, like Amnesty International.

religijskih grupa i zagovornika ljudskih prava poput Amnesty Internationala.

Today, civil rights lawyers with the Center for Constitutional Rights

Danas, odvjetnici za građanska prava iz Centra za ustavna prava

are challenging CMUs in court

osporavaju JUK na sudu

for depriving prisoners of their due process rights

zbog uskraćivanja prava zatvorenika na pravični postupak

and for retaliating against them

i zato što im se osvećuju

for their protected political and religious speech.

zbog njihovih zaštićenih političkih i religijskih govora.

Many of these documents would have never come to light without this lawsuit.

Mnogi od ovih dokumenata ne bi izašli na vidjelo da nije bilo ove tužbe.

The message of these groups and my message for you today

Poruka ovih grupa i moja poruka vama danas

is that we must bear witness to what is being done to these prisoners.

je da moramo biti svjedocima nepravde nad ovim zatvorenicima.

Their treatment is a reflection of the values held beyond prison walls.

Odnos prema njima odraz je vrijednosti izvan zatvorskih zidova.

This story is not just about prisoners.

Ova priča nije samo o zatvorenicima.

It is about us.

To je priča o nama.

It is about our own commitment to human rights.

O našoj predanosti ljudskim pravima.

It is about whether we will choose to stop repeating the mistakes of our past.

O tome hoćemo li odlučiti ne ponavljati pogreške iz prošlosti.

If we don't listen to what Father Berrigan described as the stories of the dead,

Ne budemo li slušali ono što je svećenik Berrigan opisao kao priče o mrtvima,

they will soon become the stories of ourselves.

one će uskoro postati priče o nama.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

(Applause ends)

(Pljesak završava)

Tom Rielly: I have a couple questions.

Tom Rielly: Imam nekoliko pitanja.

When I was in high school, I learned about the Bill of Rights,

U srednjoj školi sam učio o Povelji o pravima,

the Constitution, freedom of speech,

ustavu, slobodi govora,

due process and about 25 other laws and rights

pravičnom postupku i oko 25 drugih zakona i prava

that seem to be violated by this.

koji se, izgleda, ovime krše.

How could this possibly be happening?

Kako je moguće da se to događa?

Will Potter: I think that's the number one question I get

Will Potter: To je, mislim, glavno pitanje koje me pitaju

throughout all of my work,

kroz čitav moj rad,

and the short answer is that people don't know.

i kratki odgovor je da ljudi ne znaju.

I think the solution to any of these types of situations, any rights abuses,

Mislim da rješenje za svaku ovakvu situaciju, svako kršenje prava

are really dependent on two things.

ovisi o dvjema stvarima.

They're dependent on knowledge that it's actually happening

Ovisi o znanju da se to doista događa

and then a means and efficacy to actually make a change.

i o sredstvima i učinkovitosti u stvaranju promjene.

And unfortunately with these prisoners,

A nažalost, što se tiče ovih zatvorenika,

one, people don't know what's happening at all

prvo, ljudi uopće ne znaju to se događa

and then they're already disenfranchised populations

a još su iz već obespravljenih populacija

who don't have access to attorneys, not native English speakers.

koje nemaju pristupa odvjetnicima engleski im nije materinji jezik.

In some of these cases, they have great representation that I mentioned,

U nekim od ovih slučajeva imaju odlično zastupanje koje sam spomenuo

but there's just not a public awareness of what's happening.

ali jednostavno nema svijesti u javnosti o tome što se događa.

TR: Isn't it guaranteed in prison that you have right to council

TR: Nije li u zatvoru zajamčeno pravo na odvjetnika

or access to council?

ili pristup odvjetniku?

WP: There's a tendency in our culture

WP: U našoj kulturi postoji sklonost

to see when people have been convicted of a crime,

da kad se ljude osudi za neki zločin,

no matter if that charge was bogus or legitimate,

bilo da se radi o lažnoj ili legitimnoj optužbi

that whatever happens to them after that is warranted.

štogod im se nakon toga dogodi je zasluženo.

And I think that's a really damaging and dangerous narrative that we have,

I smatram da je jako štetan i opasan taj naš narativ

that allows these types of things to happen,

koji omogućuje da se ovakve stvari događaju,

as the general public just kind of turns a blind eye to it.

budući da opća javnost jednostavno samo zažmiri pred njima.

TR: All those documents on screen were all real documents, word for word,

TR: Svi ovi dokumenti na zaslonu su stvarni dokumenti, od riječi do riječi,

unchanged at all, right?

potpuno nepromijenjeni, je l'?

WP: Absolutely. I've actually uploaded all of them to my website.

WP: Apsolutno. Čak sam ih sve i stavio na svoju web stranicu.

It's willpotter.com/CMU and it's a footnoted version of the talk,

Zove se willpotter.com/CMU, i nalaze se u fusnotama ovog govora,

so you can see the documents for yourself without the little snippets.

pa možete sami pogledati dokumente bez isječaka.

You can see the full version.

Možete vidjeti punu verziju.

I relied overwhelmingly on primary source documents

U ogromnoj mjeri sam se oslanjao na dokumente iz primarnih izvora

or on primary interviews with former and current prisoners,

ili na primarne intervjue s bivšim i sadašnjim zatvorenicima,

with people that are dealing with this situation every day.

s ljudima koji se svakodnevno nose s ovom situacijom.

And like I said, I've been there myself, as well.

I, kao što rekoh, bio sam osobno tamo.

TR: You're doing courageous work.

TR: Činite zaista hrabro djelo.

WP: Thank you very much. Thank you all.

WP: Puno vam hvala. Hvala svima.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)