Stuart Firestein: The pursuit of ignorance

Prevodilac: Miloš Milosavljević Lektor: Mile Živković

There is an ancient proverb that says

Postoji stara izreka koja kaže:

it's very difficult to find a black cat in a dark room,

"Vrlo je teško naći crnu mačku u mračnoj sobi,

especially when there is no cat.

pogotovo kad mačke nema."

I find this a particularly apt description of science

Mislim da je ovo izuzetno prikladan opis nauke

and how science works --

i onoga kako ona funkcioniše -

bumbling around in a dark room, bumping into things,

tumara u mračnoj sobi, naleće na stvari,

trying to figure out what shape this might be,

pokušava da shvati šta ovaj oblik može da bude,

what that might be,

a šta onaj,

there are reports of a cat somewhere around,

ima izveštaja da je mačka negde u blizini,

they may not be reliable, they may be,

oni ne moraju biti pouzdani, a i mogu,

and so forth and so on.

itd., itd.

Now I know this is different than the way most people

Znam da je ovo drugačije od onoga kako većina ljudi

think about science.

misli o nauci.

Science, we generally are told,

Nauka je, kako nam uglavnom kažu,

is a very well-ordered mechanism for

veoma dobro uređeni mehanizam

understanding the world,

za razumevanje sveta,

for gaining facts, for gaining data,

za dobijanje činjenica, podataka,

that it's rule-based,

koja je zasnovana na pravilima;

that scientists use this thing called the scientific method

da naučnici koriste takozvani naučni metod,

and we've been doing this for 14 generations or so now,

da ovo radimo već 14 generacija unazad,

and the scientific method is a set of rules

da je naučni metod skup pravila

for getting hard, cold facts out of the data.

za dobijanje čvrstih, hladnih činjenica iz podataka.

I'd like to tell you that's not the case.

Želeo bih da vam kažem da to nije slučaj.

So there's the scientific method,

Znači, postoji naučni metod,

but what's really going on is this. (Laughter)

ali ono što se stvarno dešava je ovo. (Smeh)

[The Scientific Method vs. Farting Around]

['Naučni metod' naspram 'Tumaranja']

And it's going on kind of like that.

Dešava se otprilike tako.

[... in the dark] (Laughter)

[...u mraku.] (Smeh)

So what is the difference, then,

U čemu je onda razlika

between the way I believe science is pursued

između onoga kako ja verujem da bavljenje naukom izgleda

and the way it seems to be perceived?

i onoga kako se to uglavnom percipira?

So this difference first came to me in some ways

Ovu razliku sam prvi put primetio

in my dual role at Columbia University,

u svojoj dvostrukoj ulozi na univerzitetu Kolumbija,

where I'm both a professor and run a laboratory in neuroscience

gde sam i profesor i vodim laboratoriju neuronauke

where we try to figure out how the brain works.

gde pokušavamo da shvatimo kako radi mozak.

We do this by studying the sense of smell,

To radimo pomoću proučavanja čula mirisa,

the sense of olfaction, and in the laboratory,

i u laboratoriji

it's a great pleasure and fascinating work

je veliko zadovoljstvo i fascinantno je

and exciting to work with graduate students and post-docs

raditi sa diplomcima i doktorantima

and think up cool experiments to understand how this

i smišljati lepe eksperimente za razumevanje kako

sense of smell works and how the brain might be working,

čulo mirisa radi i kako mozak možda radi

and, well, frankly, it's kind of exhilarating.

i iskreno, uzbudljivo je.

But at the same time, it's my responsibility

Ali u isto vreme, moja dužnost je

to teach a large course to undergraduates on the brain,

i da predajem obiman kurs o mozgu studentima

and that's a big subject,

i to je obimna tema

and it takes quite a while to organize that,

i treba dosta vremena da se to organizuje.

and it's quite challenging and it's quite interesting,

Izazov je i prilično je interesantno,

but I have to say, it's not so exhilarating.

ali, moram da kažem da nije tako uzbudljivo.

So what was the difference?

U čemu je razlika?

Well, the course I was and am teaching

Kurs koji sam predavao i predajem

is called Cellular and Molecular Neuroscience - I. (Laughs)

se zove "Ćelijska i molekularna neuronauka 1." (Smeh)

It's 25 lectures full of all sorts of facts,

To je 25 lekcija koje su pune svih mogućih činjenica

it uses this giant book called "Principles of Neural Science"

i koristi se ova ogromna knjiga koja se zove "Principi neuronauke"

by three famous neuroscientists.

koju su napisala tri poznata neuronaučnika.

This book comes in at 1,414 pages,

Ova knjiga ima 1.414 strana

it weighs a hefty seven and a half pounds.

i teška je dobrih 3,5 kilograma.

Just to put that in some perspective,

Samo radi poređenja,

that's the weight of two normal human brains.

to je težina dva normalna ljudska mozga.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So I began to realize, by the end of this course,

Počeo sam da uviđam krajem ovog kursa

that the students maybe were getting the idea

da studenti mora da su imali zamisao

that we must know everything there is to know about the brain.

da mora da znamo sve što postoji o mozgu.

That's clearly not true.

To, naravno, nije tačno.

And they must also have this idea, I suppose,

I mora da takođe imaju zamisao da je

that what scientists do is collect data and collect facts

prikupljanje podataka i činjenica i njihovo stavljanje u velike knjige

and stick them in these big books.

ono što naučnici rade.

And that's not really the case either.

Ni to, takođe, nije slučaj.

When I go to a meeting, after the meeting day is over

Kad odem na sastanak, pošto se on završi

and we collect in the bar over a couple of beers with my colleagues,

i odem u bar na nekoliko piva sa svojim kolegama,

we never talk about what we know.

nikad ne razgovaramo o onome što znamo.

We talk about what we don't know.

Razgovaramo o onome što ne znamo.

We talk about what still has to get done,

Razgovaramo o tome šta još treba da se uradi,

what's so critical to get done in the lab.

šta je neophodno da se uradi u laboratoriji.

Indeed, this was, I think, best said by Marie Curie

Ovo je, ja mislim, najbolje rekla Marija Kiri

who said that one never notices what has been done

a to je da niko nikad ne primećuje ono što je urađeno

but only what remains to be done.

već samo ono što je ostalo da se uradi.

This was in a letter to her brother after obtaining

To je napisala u pismu svom bratu, pošto je dobila

her second graduate degree, I should say.

drugu diplomu.

I have to point out this has always been one of my favorite pictures of Marie Curie,

Moram da istaknem da je ovo oduvek bila jedna od meni omiljenih slika Marije Kiri

because I am convinced that that glow behind her

jer sam uveren da taj sjaj iza nje

is not a photographic effect. (Laughter)

nije fotografski efekat. (Smeh)

That's the real thing.

On je pravi.

It is true that her papers are, to this day,

Istina je da su njeni rukopisi do danas

stored in a basement room in the Bibliothèque Française

smešteni u podrumu Francuske biblioteke

in a concrete room that's lead-lined,

u prostoriji od betona sa olovnim pločama

and if you're a scholar and you want access to these notebooks,

i ako ste student i želite pristup ovim sveskama,

you have to put on a full radiation hazmat suit,

morate da obučete čitavo odelo za zaštitu od radijacije,

so it's pretty scary business.

tako da je to prilično opasna rabota.

Nonetheless, this is what I think we were leaving out

U svakom slučaju, ovo je ono što mislim da izostavljamo

of our courses

iz naših kurseva

and leaving out of the interaction that we have

i iz interakcije koju imamo

with the public as scientists, the what-remains-to-be-done.

sa javnošću, kao naučnici: ono što preostaje da se uradi.

This is the stuff that's exhilarating and interesting.

To je ono što je uzbudljivo i interesantno.

It is, if you will, the ignorance.

To je, takoreći, neznanje.

That's what was missing.

To je ono što nedostaje.

So I thought, well, maybe I should teach a course

Tako da sam pomislio: možda bi trebalo da održim kurs

on ignorance,

o neznanju,

something I can finally excel at, perhaps, for example.

o nečemu u čemu konačno mogu da se istaknem.

So I did start teaching this course on ignorance,

I počeo sam da držim ovaj kurs o neznanju

and it's been quite interesting

i bilo je prilično interesantno

and I'd like to tell you to go to the website.

i hteo bih da vam kažem da odete na sajt.

You can find all sorts of information there. It's wide open.

Tamo možete naći razne informacije. Dostupno je svima.

And it's been really quite an interesting time for me

I bilo mi je stvarno interesantno

to meet up with other scientists who come in and talk

da se sretnem sa drugim naučnicima koji dođu i govore

about what it is they don't know.

šta je to što ne znaju.

Now I use this word "ignorance," of course,

Sada koristim reč "neznanje", naravno,

to be at least in part intentionally provocative,

da bih bio bar jednim delom namerno provokativan

because ignorance has a lot of bad connotations

jer neznanje ima puno negativnih konotacija

and I clearly don't mean any of those.

i ja, naravno, ne mislim ni na jednu od njih.

So I don't mean stupidity, I don't mean a callow indifference

Ne mislim na glupost ili na sirovu ravnodušnost

to fact or reason or data.

prema činjenicama, argumentima ili podacima.

The ignorant are clearly unenlightened, unaware,

Neznalice su naravno, neprosvećeni, nesvesni,

uninformed, and present company today excepted,

neinformisani i prihvaćeni u današnjim kompanijama

often occupy elected offices, it seems to me.

i često zauzimaju funkcionerska mesta, čini mi se.

That's another story, perhaps.

To je druga priča, možda.

I mean a different kind of ignorance.

Mislim na drugačiju vrstu neznanja.

I mean a kind of ignorance that's less pejorative,

Mislim na vrstu neznanja koja je manje pežorativna,

a kind of ignorance that comes from a communal gap in our knowledge,

vrstu neznanja koja dolazi iz opše praznine u našem znanju,

something that's just not there to be known

iz nečega što nije poznato

or isn't known well enough yet or we can't make predictions from,

ili nije još dobro poznato ili ne možemo da predviđamo iz njega,

the kind of ignorance that's maybe best summed up

vrsta neznanja koja je možda najbolje sumirana

in a statement by James Clerk Maxwell,

u izjavi Džejmsa Klerka Maksvela,

perhaps the greatest physicist between Newton and Einstein,

možda najvećeg fizičara između Njutna i Ajnštajna,

who said, "Thoroughly conscious ignorance

koji je rekao: "Potpuno svesno neznanje

is the prelude to every real advance in science."

je uvod za svaki pravi napredak u nauci."

I think it's a wonderful idea:

Mislim da je to divna ideja:

thoroughly conscious ignorance.

"potpuno svesno neznanje".

So that's the kind of ignorance that I want to talk about today,

To je vrsta neznanja o kojoj želim da pričam danas

but of course the first thing we have to clear up

ali naravno, prva stvar koju treba da razjasnimo je

is what are we going to do with all those facts?

šta ćemo da uradimo sa svim tim činjenicama?

So it is true that science piles up at an alarming rate.

Istina je da se u nauci nagomilavaju činjenice zabrinjavajućim tempom.

We all have this sense that science is this mountain of facts,

Svi imamo taj osećaj da je nauka brdo činjenica,

this accumulation model of science, as many have called it,

akumulacioni model nauke, kako ga mnogi nazivaju,

and it seems impregnable, it seems impossible.

i izgleda neosvojiva, izgleda nemoguće.

How can you ever know all of this?

Kako se ikada može znati sve ovo?

And indeed, the scientific literature grows at an alarming rate.

I zaista, naučna literatura raste zabrinjavajućim tempom.

In 2006, there were 1.3 million papers published.

2006. je bilo izdato 1,3 miliona članaka.

There's about a two-and-a-half-percent yearly growth rate,

Oko 2,5 posto je godišnji rast

and so last year we saw over one and a half million papers being published.

i prema tome, prošle godine smo videli milion ipo izdatih članaka.

Divide that by the number of minutes in a year,

Podelite to sa brojem minuta u godini

and you wind up with three new papers per minute.

i dobićete 3 nova članka po minutu.

So I've been up here a little over 10 minutes,

Ja sam ovde nešto preko 10 minuta.

I've already lost three papers.

Već sam propustio tri članka.

I have to get out of here actually. I have to go read.

U stvari moram da idem. Moram da idem da čitam.

So what do we do about this? Well, the fact is

I šta onda da radimo sa ovim? Pa, ono što

that what scientists do about it is a kind of a controlled neglect, if you will.

naučnici rade je, otprilike - kontrolisano zanemarivanje.

We just don't worry about it, in a way.

prosto ne brinemo o tome takoreći.

The facts are important. You have to know a lot of stuff

Činjenice su važne. Morate znati puno stvari

to be a scientist. That's true.

da biste bili naučnik. To je tačno.

But knowing a lot of stuff doesn't make you a scientist.

Ali znanje puno stvari vas ne čini naučnikom.

You need to know a lot of stuff to be a lawyer

Treba da znate puno stvari da biste bili advokat,

or an accountant or an electrician or a carpenter.

ili računovođa ili električar ili stolar.

But in science, knowing a lot of stuff is not the point.

Ali u nauci nije suština znati puno stvari.

Knowing a lot of stuff is there to help you get

Znanje puno stvari je tu da vam pomogne

to more ignorance.

da dođete do više neznanja.

So knowledge is a big subject, but I would say

Tako da, znanje je velika stvar, ali rekao bih

ignorance is a bigger one.

da je neznanje veća.

So this leads us to maybe think about, a little bit

Ovo nas navodi da možda malo razmišljamo

about, some of the models of science that we tend to use,

o modelima nauke koje obično koristimo

and I'd like to disabuse you of some of them.

i voleo bih da vam razbijem zablude o nekim od njih.

So one of them, a popular one, is that scientists

Jedna od njih, koja je popularna, je ta da naučnici

are patiently putting the pieces of a puzzle together

strpljivo slažu delove slagalice

to reveal some grand scheme or another.

da bi otkrili neku veliku sliku.

This is clearly not true. For one, with puzzles,

Ovo očigledno nije tačno. Prvo, kod slagalica

the manufacturer has guaranteed that there's a solution.

proizvođač garantuje da postoji rešenje.

We don't have any such guarantee.

Mi nemamo takvu garanciju.

Indeed, there are many of us who aren't so sure about the manufacturer.

Doduše ima ih puno među nama koji baš i ne veruju proizvođaču.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So I think the puzzle model doesn't work.

Tako da ja mislim da model slagalice ne funkcioniše.

Another popular model is that science is busy unraveling things

Drugi popularan model je taj da je nauka zaokupljena iznošenjem stvari na videlo,

the way you unravel the peels of an onion.

kao kad ljuštite crni luk.

So peel by peel, you take away the layers of the onion

Skidate slojeve luka jedan po jedan

to get at some fundamental kernel of truth.

da biste stigli do osnovnog jezgra istine.

I don't think that's the way it works either.

Ne mislim ni da je to način na koji funkcioniše.

Another one, a kind of popular one, is the iceberg idea,

Sledeća je popularna ideja ledenog brega:

that we only see the tip of the iceberg but underneath

da samo vidimo vrh ledenog brega, ali ispod je

is where most of the iceberg is hidden.

sakriven najveći njegov deo.

But all of these models are based on the idea of a large body of facts

Svi ovi modeli su zasnovani na ideji o velikom skupu činjenica

that we can somehow or another get completed.

koji na neki način možemo da dovršimo.

We can chip away at this iceberg and figure out what it is,

Možemo da odlomimo komad ovog ledenog brega i otkrijemo šta je

or we could just wait for it to melt, I suppose, these days,

ili možemo da sačekamo da se otopi, pretpostavljam, u današnje vreme,

but one way or another we could get to the whole iceberg. Right?

ali u svakom slučaju mogli bismo da dođemo do celine ledenog brega.

Or make it manageable. But I don't think that's the case.

Ili da manipulišemo njime. Ali mislim da to nije tako.

I think what really happens in science

Mislim da u nauci u stvari više funkcioniše

is a model more like the magic well,

model nečega kao što je čarobni izvor

where no matter how many buckets you take out,

gde bez obzira koliko ste kofa napunili,

there's always another bucket of water to be had,

uvek može da se napuni još jedna kofa vode

or my particularly favorite one,

ili moj posebno omiljeni:

with the effect and everything, the ripples on a pond.

talasanje vode.

So if you think of knowledge being this ever-expanding ripple on a pond,

Ako mislite o znanju kao o ovom talasanju vode koje se večno širi,

the important thing to realize is that our ignorance,

važno je da shvatite da naše neznanje -

the circumference of this knowledge, also grows with knowledge.

obim ovog znanja - takođe raste sa znanjem.

So the knowledge generates ignorance.

Tako da znanje proizvodi neznanje.

This is really well said, I thought, by George Bernard Shaw.

Ovo je dobro rekao Džordž Bernard Šo.

This is actually part of a toast that he delivered

To je bio u stvari deo njegove zdravice Ajnštajnu

to celebrate Einstein at a dinner celebrating Einstein's work,

na večeri u čast Ajnštajnovog rada,

in which he claims that science

u kojoj tvrdi da nauka jednostavno stvara više pitanja nego odgovora.

just creates more questions than it answers. ["Science is always wrong. It never solves a problem without creating 10 more."]

["Nauka nikad nije u pravu. Nikad ne rešava problem, a da ne stvori još 10 novih."]

I find that kind of glorious, and I think he's precisely right,

Mislim da je to veličanstveno i da je on u pravu,

plus it's a kind of job security.

plus - to je osiguranje za posao.

As it turns out, he kind of cribbed that

Ispostavilo se da je to prepisao

from the philosopher Immanuel Kant

od filozofa Imanuela Kanta

who a hundred years earlier had come up with this idea

koji je sto godina ranije došao na ovu ideju

of question propagation, that every answer begets more questions.

propagiranja pitanja - da svaki odgovor stvara još pitanja.

I love that term, "question propagation,"

Volim taj izraz: "propagiranje pitanja",

this idea of questions propagating out there.

ideju o propagiranju pitanja.

So I'd say the model we want to take is not

Rekao bih da model koji želimo da uzmemo nije

that we start out kind of ignorant and we get some facts together

da počnemo sa neznanjem i sastavljamo činjenice

and then we gain knowledge.

i onda dobijemo znanje.

It's rather kind of the other way around, really.

Pre će biti obrnuto.

What do we use this knowledge for?

Za šta koristimo ovo znanje?

What are we using this collection of facts for?

Za šta koristimo ovu zbirku podataka?

We're using it to make better ignorance,

Koristimo je da poboljšamo neznanje,

to come up with, if you will, higher-quality ignorance.

da dođemo do neznanja višeg kvaliteta.

Because, you know, there's low-quality ignorance

Jer postoji neznanje niskog kvaliteta

and there's high-quality ignorance. It's not all the same.

i neznanje višeg kvaliteta. Nije isto.

Scientists argue about this all the time.

Naučnici se stalno raspravljaju o tome.

Sometimes we call them bull sessions.

Ponekad to zovemo neformalne diskusije,

Sometimes we call them grant proposals.

a ponekad - traženje finansiranja.

But nonetheless, it's what the argument is about.

Ali, bez obzira, to je ono o čemu se vodi rasprava.

It's the ignorance. It's the what we don't know.

O neznanju. O onome što ne znamo.

It's what makes a good question.

To je ono što čini dobro pitanje.

So how do we think about these questions?

Kako razmišljamo o ovim pitanjima?

I'm going to show you a graph that shows up

Pokazaću vam grafikon koji se često pojavljuje

quite a bit on happy hour posters in various science departments.

na plakatima za "happy hour" na raznim naučnim katedrama.

This graph asks the relationship between what you know

Ovaj grafikon prikazuje odnos između onoga što znate

and how much you know about it.

i onoga koliko o tome znate.

So what you know, you can know anywhere from nothing to everything, of course,

Ono što znate može da bude bilo gde između "ničega" i "svega",

and how much you know about it can be anywhere

a ono koliko znate o tome može da bude bilo gde

from a little to a lot.

od "malo" do "mnogo".

So let's put a point on the graph. There's an undergraduate.

Hajde da stavimo tačku koja predstavlja studenta.

Doesn't know much but they have a lot of interest.

On ne zna puno, ali ima puno interesovanja.

They're interested in almost everything.

Interesuje ga skoro sve.

Now you look at a master's student, a little further along in their education,

Sada vidite studenta na masteru, na malo višem stepenu obrazovanja

and you see they know a bit more,

i vidite da on zna malo više,

but it's been narrowed somewhat.

ali je malo sužen.

And finally you get your Ph.D., where it turns out

I konačno, dobijete doktorsku titulu, gde se ispostavi

you know a tremendous amount about almost nothing. (Laughter)

da znate ogromnu količinu stvari skoro ni o čemu. (Smeh)

What's really disturbing is the trend line that goes through that

Ono što je uznemirujuće je linija trenda koja prolazi kroz te tačke

because, of course, when it dips below the zero axis, there,

jer naravno, ako padne ispod nulte ose

it gets into a negative area.

ulazi u negativnu zonu.

That's where you find people like me, I'm afraid.

Bojim se da se tu nalaze ljudi kao što sam ja.

So the important thing here is that this can all be changed.

Tako da je važna stvar ovde to da sve ovo može da se promeni.

This whole view can be changed

Ceo pogled može da se promeni

by just changing the label on the x-axis.

samo promenom oznake na x-osi.

So instead of how much you know about it,

Tako umesto "koliko znam o tome"

we could say, "What can you ask about it?"

možemo reći "šta mogu da pitam o tome?"

So yes, you do need to know a lot of stuff as a scientist,

I da, treba da znate puno kao naučnik,

but the purpose of knowing a lot of stuff

ali svrha znanja o mnogo stvari

is not just to know a lot of stuff. That just makes you a geek, right?

nije samo da se zna mnogo. To vas samo čini štreberom, zar ne?

Knowing a lot of stuff, the purpose is

Svrha toga da znate mnogo stvari je

to be able to ask lots of questions,

da možete da postavljate mnogo pitanja,

to be able to frame thoughtful, interesting questions,

da možete da uobličite promišljena, interesantna pitanja

because that's where the real work is.

jer u tome je pravi rad.

Let me give you a quick idea of a couple of these sorts of questions.

Daću vam brzu ilustraciju par ovakvih pitanja.

I'm a neuroscientist, so how would we come up

Ja sam neuronaučnik. Pa kako smišljamo pitanja

with a question in neuroscience?

iz neuronauke?

Because it's not always quite so straightforward.

Jer nije uvek tako jednostavno.

So, for example, we could say, well what is it that the brain does?

Na primer, možemo reći šta je to što mozak radi?

Well, one thing the brain does, it moves us around.

Jedna stvar je da nas pokreće.

We walk around on two legs.

Hodamo na dve noge.

That seems kind of simple, somehow or another.

To izgleda jednostavno.

I mean, virtually everybody over 10 months of age

Skoro svako stariji od 10 meseci

walks around on two legs, right?

hoda na dve noge.

So that maybe is not that interesting.

Tako da to možda nije tako interesantno.

So instead maybe we want to choose something a little more complicated to look at.

Možda bismo hteli da uzmemo nešto malo komplikovanije.

How about the visual system?

Recimo, sistem organa za vid?

There it is, the visual system.

Evo ga, organ za vid.

I mean, we love our visual systems. We do all kinds of cool stuff.

Mi volimo sisteme organa za vid. Radimo razne kul stvari.

Indeed, there are over 12,000 neuroscientists

Preko 12.000 neuronaučnika

who work on the visual system,

radi na sistemu za vid,

from the retina to the visual cortex,

od mrežnjače do vizuelnog korteksa,

in an attempt to understand not just the visual system

u pokušaju da razumeju ne samo vidni sistem

but to also understand how general principles

nego i opšte principe

of how the brain might work.

onoga kako mozak možda funkcioniše.

But now here's the thing:

Evo o čemu se radi.

Our technology has actually been pretty good

Naša tehnologija je u stvari prilično dobra

at replicating what the visual system does.

u kopiranju onoga što vidni sistem radi.

We have TV, we have movies,

Imamo TV, filmove,

we have animation, we have photography,

animaciju, fotografiju,

we have pattern recognition, all of these sorts of things.

prepoznavanje šablona, sve te stvari.

They work differently than our visual systems in some cases,

One rade drugačije nego naši sistemi za vid, u nekim slučajevima,

but nonetheless we've been pretty good at

ali ipak smo dobri u tome da

making a technology work like our visual system.

učinimo da tehnologija radi kao naš sistem za vid.

Somehow or another, a hundred years of robotics,

Za sto godina robotike

you never saw a robot walk on two legs,

niste videli robota koji hoda na dve noge

because robots don't walk on two legs

jer roboti ne hodaju na dve noge

because it's not such an easy thing to do.

jer to nije tako lako izvesti.

A hundred years of robotics,

Sto godina je kako postoji robotika

and we can't get a robot that can move more than a couple steps one way or the other.

i ne možemo da napravimo robota koji može da napravi više od nekoliko koraka.

You ask them to go up an inclined plane, and they fall over.

Stavite ih da idu nagore u nagnutom avionu i oni se prevrnu.

Turn around, and they fall over. It's a serious problem.

Okrenu se i padnu. To je ozbiljan problem.

So what is it that's the most difficult thing for a brain to do?

Šta je najteže za mozak da uradi?

What ought we to be studying?

Šta bi trebalo da proučavamo?

Perhaps it ought to be walking on two legs, or the motor system.

Možda hod na dve noge ili motorički sistem.

I'll give you an example from my own lab,

Daću vam primer iz moje laboratorije,

my own particularly smelly question,

moje posebno smrdljivo pitanje

since we work on the sense of smell.

pošto radimo na čulu mirisa.

But here's a diagram of five molecules

Evo dijagrama pet molekula,

and sort of a chemical notation.

vrste hemijskog obeležavanja.

These are just plain old molecules, but if you sniff those molecules

Ovo su samo obični molekuli, ali ako ih pomirišete

up these two little holes in the front of your face,

sa ove dve male rupe na vašem licu,

you will have in your mind the distinct impression of a rose.

imaćete u mozgu jasan utisak ruže.

If there's a real rose there, those molecules will be the ones,

Da je tu prava ruža to bi bili ovi molekuli,

but even if there's no rose there,

ali čak i da nema ruže

you'll have the memory of a molecule.

imali biste sećanje na molekule.

How do we turn molecules into perceptions?

Kako preokrećemo molekule u opažanja?

What's the process by which that could happen?

Koji je proces pomoću koga to može da se desi?

Here's another example: two very simple molecules, again in this kind of chemical notation.

Evo još jednog primera: dva jednostavna molekula, isto hemijski predstavljena.

It might be easier to visualize them this way,

Možda je lakše zamisliti ih ovako.

so the gray circles are carbon atoms, the white ones

Sivi krugovi su atomi ugljenika,

are hydrogen atoms and the red ones are oxygen atoms.

beli - atomi vodonika, a crveni - atomi kiseonika.

Now these two molecules differ by only one carbon atom

Ova dva molekula se razlikuju samo u jednom atomu ugljenika

and two little hydrogen atoms that ride along with it,

i dva mala atoma vodonika koji se nalaze uz njega,

and yet one of them, heptyl acetate,

pa ipak jedan od njih - heptil acetat

has the distinct odor of a pear,

ima jasan miris kruške,

and hexyl acetate is unmistakably banana.

a heksil acetat - jasan miris banane.

So there are two really interesting questions here, it seems to me.

Tako da ovde ima dva interesantna pitanja, čini mi se.

One is, how can a simple little molecule like that

Jedno je - kako tako mali molekul može

create a perception in your brain that's so clear

da stvori percepciju u vašem mozgu koja tako jasno kaže

as a pear or a banana?

da li je kruška ili banana?

And secondly, how the hell can we tell the difference

I drugo - kako, zaboga, možemo da razlikujemo

between two molecules that differ by a single carbon atom?

dva molekula koja se razlikuju samo u jednom atomu ugljenika?

I mean, that's remarkable to me,

To mi izgleda sjajno,

clearly the best chemical detector on the face of the planet.

najbolji hemijski detektor na planeti.

And you don't even think about it, do you?

I čak i ne razmišljate o tome, zar ne?

So this is a favorite quote of mine that takes us

Ovo je moj omiljeni citat koji nas vraća

back to the ignorance and the idea of questions.

na neznanje i na ideju o pitanjima.

I like to quote because I think dead people

Volim da citiram jer mislim da mrtvi

shouldn't be excluded from the conversation.

ne treba da budu isključeni iz razgovora.

And I also think it's important to realize that

Takođe mislim da je važno shvatiti

the conversation's been going on for a while, by the way.

da se razgovor vodi već neko vreme.

So Erwin Schrodinger, a great quantum physicist

Ervin Šredinger, veliki kvantni fizičar,

and, I think, philosopher, points out how you have to

i, ja mislim, filozof, ističe kako treba

"abide by ignorance for an indefinite period" of time.

da se "povinujete neznanju na neodređen vremenski period".

And it's this abiding by ignorance

I mislim da je ovo povinovanje neznanju

that I think we have to learn how to do.

ono što treba da naučimo kako da radimo.

This is a tricky thing. This is not such an easy business.

To je teško. To nije tako lak posao.

I guess it comes down to our education system,

Pretpostavljam da to potiče od našeg obrazovnog sistema,

so I'm going to talk a little bit about ignorance and education,

pa ću pričati malo o neznanju i obrazovanju

because I think that's where it really has to play out.

jer mislim da tu stvarno mora da se iscrpi.

So for one, let's face it,

Kao prvo, da se suočimo s tim

in the age of Google and Wikipedia,

da u doba Gugla i Vikipedije

the business model of the university

model poslovanja univerziteta

and probably secondary schools is simply going to have to change.

i verovatno srednjih škola jednostavno mora da se promeni.

We just can't sell facts for a living anymore.

Ne možemo više da živimo od prodavanja činjenica.

They're available with a click of the mouse,

One su dostupne jednim klikom miša

or if you want to, you could probably just ask the wall

ili, ako hoćete, verovatno možete samo da pitate zid,

one of these days, wherever they're going to hide the things

ili gde će već da kriju stvari,

that tell us all this stuff.

da nam kaže sve to.

So what do we have to do? We have to give our students

I šta onda moramo da uradimo? Moramo da damo našim studentima

a taste for the boundaries, for what's outside that circumference,

osećaj za granice, za ono što je izvan tog opsega,

for what's outside the facts, what's just beyond the facts.

za ono što je izvan činjenica.

How do we do that?

Kako da to uradimo?

Well, one of the problems, of course,

Jedan od problema

turns out to be testing.

ispostavlja se da je - testiranje.

We currently have an educational system

Trenutno imamo obrazovni sistem

which is very efficient but is very efficient at a rather bad thing.

koji je vrlo efikasan u prilično lošoj stvari.

So in second grade, all the kids are interested in science,

U drugom razredu sva deca su zainteresovana za nauku,

the girls and the boys.

devojčice i dečaci.

They like to take stuff apart. They have great curiosity.

Oni vole da rastavljaju stvari. Mnogo su radoznali.

They like to investigate things. They go to science museums.

Vole da istražuju stvari. Idu u muzeje nauke.

They like to play around. They're in second grade.

Vole da se igraju. U drugom su razredu.

They're interested.

Zainteresovani su.

But by 11th or 12th grade, fewer than 10 percent

Ali kad dođu do 11. ili 12. razreda, manje od 10 posto njih

of them have any interest in science whatsoever,

ima interesovanje za nauku,

let alone a desire to go into science as a career.

a kamoli želju da im nauka bude posao.

So we have this remarkably efficient system

Tako da imamo ovaj izuzetno efikasan sistem

for beating any interest in science out of everybody's head.

za ubijanje interesovanja za nauku kod svakoga.

Is this what we want?

Da li je to ono što hoćemo?

I think this comes from what a teacher colleague of mine

Mislim da to dolazi od onoga što moj kolega profesor naziva

calls "the bulimic method of education."

"bulimičnom metodom obrazovanja".

You know. You can imagine what it is.

Možete da zamislite šta je to.

We just jam a whole bunch of facts down their throats over here

Sipamo im u grlo gomilu podataka

and then they puke it up on an exam over here

i onda ih ispovraćaju na ispitu

and everybody goes home with no added intellectual heft whatsoever.

i svi odu kući a da nisu dobili nikakvu intelektualnu ispunjenost.

This can't possibly continue to go on.

To ne može tako da se nastavlja.

So what do we do? Well the geneticists, I have to say,

Šta onda da radimo? Genetičari imaju

have an interesting maxim they live by.

interesantan princip po kome žive.

Geneticists always say, you always get what you screen for.

Oni kažu da uvek dobijete ono što testirate.

And that's meant as a warning.

I to je upozorenje.

So we always will get what we screen for,

Uvek ćemo dobiti ono što testiramo

and part of what we screen for is in our testing methods.

i deo onoga što testiramo je u našim metodama testiranja.

Well, we hear a lot about testing and evaluation,

Slušamo puno o testiranju i ocenjivanju

and we have to think carefully when we're testing

i treba pažljivo da razmislimo kad testiramo nešto,

whether we're evaluating or whether we're weeding,

da li ocenjujemo ili eliminišemo,

whether we're weeding people out,

da li eliminišemo ljude,

whether we're making some cut.

da li pravimo neki rez.

Evaluation is one thing. You hear a lot about evaluation

Ocenjivanje je jedna stvar. Slušate dosta o ocenjivanju

in the literature these days, in the educational literature,

u literaturi ovih dana, u obrazovnoj literaturi,

but evaluation really amounts to feedback and it amounts

ali ocenjivanje je u stvari jednako povratnoj informaciji

to an opportunity for trial and error.

i mogućnosti za probu i grešku.

It amounts to a chance to work over a longer period of time

Jednako je šansi da funkcioniše tokom dužeg vremenskog perioda

with this kind of feedback.

sa ovom vrstom povratne informacije.

That's different than weeding, and usually, I have to tell you,

To je drugačije od eliminisanja i obično

when people talk about evaluation, evaluating students,

kad ljudi govore o ocenjivanju, ocenjivanju učenika,

evaluating teachers, evaluating schools,

ocenjivanju nastavnika, škola, programa,

evaluating programs, that they're really talking about weeding.

oni u stvari govore o eliminisanju.

And that's a bad thing, because then you will get what you select for,

I to je loša stvar, jer onda ćete dobiti ono za šta ste izabrani,

which is what we've gotten so far.

što je ono dokle smo stigli zasad.

So I'd say what we need is a test that says, "What is x?"

Rekao bih da nam treba test koji pita: "Šta je X?"

and the answers are "I don't know, because no one does,"

i odgovor je: "Ne znam, jer niko ne zna."

or "What's the question?" Even better.

ili: "Šta je pitanje?". Još bolje.

Or, "You know what, I'll look it up, I'll ask someone,

Ili: "Pogledaću, pitaću nekog,

I'll phone someone. I'll find out."

pozvaću nekog. Naći ću."

Because that's what we want people to do,

Jer to je ono što hoćemo da ljudi rade

and that's how you evaluate them.

i tako ih ocenjujete.

And maybe for the advanced placement classes,

I za časove naprednih nivoa može da bude:

it could be, "Here's the answer. What's the next question?"

"Evo odgovora. Šta je sledeće pitanje?".

That's the one I like in particular.

To je ono koje mi se posebno sviđa.

So let me end with a quote from William Butler Yeats,

I da završim sa citatom Vilijama Batlera Jejtsa

who said "Education is not about filling buckets;

koji je rekao: "Obrazovanje nije punjenje kofa

it is lighting fires."

već paljenje vatre".

So I'd say, let's get out the matches.

I ja bih dodao: hajde da izvadimo šibice.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thank you. (Applause)

Hvala. (Aplauz)