Scott Fraser: The problem with eyewitness testimony

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Marija Agatonović Lektor: Mile Živković

The murder happened a little over 21 years ago,

Ubistvo se dogodilo pre nešto više od 21 godine,

January the 18th, 1991,

18. januara 1991.

in a small

u malom naselju

bedroom community

u predgrađu Linvud,

of Lynwood, California, just a few miles

u Kaliforniji, samo nekoliko kilometara

southeast of Los Angeles.

jugoistočno od Los Anđelesa.

A father came out of his house

Otac je izašao iz kuće

to tell his teenage son and his five friends

da kaže svom sinu i njegovoj petorici prijatelja

that it was time for them to stop horsing around

da je vreme da prestanu da se glupiraju

on the front lawn and on the sidewalk,

ispred kuće i na trotoaru,

to get home, finish their schoolwork,

da uđu u kuću, završe domaće zadatke,

and prepare themselves for bed.

i pripreme se za spavanje.

And as the father was administering these instructions,

Dok je otac davao ove instrukcije,

a car drove by, slowly,

auto je prolazio, polako,

and just after it passed the father and the teenagers,

i samo koliko je prošao pored oca i tinejdžera,

a hand went out from the front passenger window,

ruka je izašla kroz prozor suvozača,

and -- "Bam, Bam!" -- killing the father.

i - "bam, bam" - ubila oca.

And the car sped off.

I auto je ubrzao.

The police,

Policija, inspektori

investigating officers, were amazingly efficient.

bili su začuđujuće efikasni.

They considered all the usual culprits,

Razmotrili su sve uobičajene krivce,

and in less than 24 hours, they had selected their suspect:

i za manje od 24 sata, izabrali su osumnjičenog:

Francisco Carrillo, a 17-year-old kid

Francisko Kariljo, sedamnaestogodišnjak

who lived about two or three blocks away

koji je živeo oko dva bloka dalje

from where the shooting occurred.

od mesta pucnjave.

They found photos of him. They prepared a photo array,

Pronašli su njegove fotografije. Pripremili su niz slika,

and the day after the shooting,

i dan nakon pucnjave,

they showed it to one of the teenagers, and he said,

pokazali ih jednom od tinejdžera, i on je rekao:

"That's the picture.

"To je slika.

That's the shooter I saw that killed the father."

To je strelac koga sam video da ubija oca."

That was all a preliminary hearing judge had

To je bilo preliminarno saslušanje koje je

to listen to, to bind Mr. Carrillo over to stand trial

sudija saslušao, da uputi gospodina Karilja na suđenje

for a first-degree murder.

za prvostepeno ubistvo.

In the investigation that followed before the actual trial,

U istrazi koja je usledila pre suđenja,

each of the other five teenagers was shown

svakome od ostale petorice tinejdžera pokazane su fotografije,

photographs, the same photo array.

isti niz slika.

The picture that we best can determine was probably

Slika za koju možemo da utvrdimo da je verovatno bila

the one that they were shown in the photo array

ona koju su pokazali u nizu slika,

is in your bottom left hand corner of these mug shots.

je ova slika u donjem levom uglu.

The reason we're not sure absolutely is because

Razlog zbog koga nismo apsolutno sigurni je

of the nature of evidence preservation

način čuvanja dokaza

in our judicial system,

u našem sudskom sistemu,

but that's another whole TEDx talk for later. (Laughter)

ali to je ceo jedan TEDx govor za kasnije. (Smeh)

So at the actual trial,

Dakle, na konkretnom suđenju,

all six of the teenagers testified,

svih šest tinejdžera su svedočili,

and indicated the identifications they had made

i pokazali identifikaciju

in the photo array.

u nizu slika.

He was convicted. He was sentenced to life imprisonment,

On je bio optužen. Dobio je doživotnu kaznu,

and transported to Folsom Prison.

i transportovan je u zatvor Folsom.

So what's wrong?

Dakle, šta nije u redu?

Straightforward, fair trial, full investigation.

Otvoreno, fer suđenje, puna istraga.

Oh yes, no gun was ever found.

E da, pištolj nikada nije pronađen.

No vehicle was ever identified as being the one

Nijedno vozilo nije identifikovano kao vozilo

in which the shooter had extended his arm,

iz koga je strelac ispružio ruku,

and no person was ever charged with being the driver

i niko nikada nije optužen kao vozač

of the shooter's vehicle.

vozila iz koga je pucano.

And Mr. Carrillo's alibi?

A alibi gospodina Karilja?

Which of those parents here in the room might not lie

Ko od ovde prisutnih roditelja bi mogao da ne laže

concerning the whereabouts of your son or daughter

kada se radi o tome gde je njegovo dete bilo

in an investigation of a killing?

kada se radi o istrazi ubistva?

Sent to prison,

Poslat je u zatvor,

adamantly insisting on his innocence,

odlučno insistirajući na svojoj nevinosti,

which he has consistently for 21 years.

što i radi za ovih 21 godinu.

So what's the problem?

Pa, u čemu je problem?

The problems, actually, for this kind of case

Problemi, zapravo, u ovakvim slučajevima

come manyfold from decades of scientific research

dolaze uglavnom od decenija naučnog proučavanja

involving human memory.

ljudskog pamćenja.

First of all, we have all the statistical analyses

Pre svega, mi imamo sve statističke analize

from the Innocence Project work,

iz "Projekta nevinosti"

where we know that we have, what,

gde znamo da imamo

250, 280 documented cases now where people have

250, 280 dokumentovanih slučajeva gde su ljudi

been wrongfully convicted and subsequently exonerated,

bili pogrešno optuženi a zatim pomilovani,

some from death row, on the basis of later DNA analysis,

neki od smrtne kazne, na osnovu kasnijih DNK analiza,

and you know that over three quarters of all of those cases

i preko tri četvrtine ovih slučajeva

of exoneration involved only eyewitness identification

pomilovanja uključivali su samo identifikaciju očevidaca

testimony during the trial that convicted them.

za vreme suđenja na kome su osuđeni.

We know that eyewitness identifications are fallible.

Znamo da su identifikacije očevidaca podložne greškama.

The other comes from an interesting aspect

Druga stvar dolazi od aspekta ljudskog pamćenja

of human memory that's related to various brain functions

koje je povezano sa različitim funkcijama mozga

but I can sum up for the sake of brevity here

ali ja mogu da sumiram sve to, zarad konciznosti

in a simple line:

u jednoj rečenici:

The brain abhors a vacuum.

mozak mrzi vakuum.

Under the best of observation conditions,

Pod najboljim uslovima posmatranja,

the absolute best,

apsolutno najboljim,

we only detect, encode and store in our brains

detektujemo, kodiramo i čuvamo

bits and pieces of the entire experience in front of us,

samo delove i fragmente čitavog iskustva oko nas

and they're stored in different parts of the brain.

i oni se skladište u različitim delovima mozga.

So now, when it's important for us to be able to recall

Sada, kada je važno da se setimo

what it was that we experienced,

šta je bilo to što smo iskusili,

we have an incomplete, we have a partial store,

mi imamo nekompletnu, delimičnu sliku,

and what happens?

i, šta se dešava?

Below awareness, with no requirement for any kind of

Nesvesno, bez traženja da obradi sliku,

motivated processing, the brain fills in information

mozak popunjava informacijama

that was not there,

koje se nisu desile,

not originally stored,

koje nisu zaista sačuvane,

from inference, from speculation,

iz zaključaka, iz spekulacije,

from sources of information that came to you,

iz izvora informacija koji nam dolaze,

as the observer, after the observation.

kao posmatraču, nakon posmatranja.

But it happens without awareness such that

Ali to dolazi nesvesno

you don't, aren't even cognizant of it occurring.

tako da čovek ni ne zna da se to dešava.

It's called reconstructed memories.

To se zove rekonstruktivna memorija.

It happens to us in all the aspects of our life, all the time.

Dešava nam se u svim aspektima života, svakodnevno.

It was those two considerations, among others --

Bile su te dve pretpostavke, između ostalih -

reconstructed memory, the fact about the eyewitness fallibility --

rekonstruktivna memorija, činjenica o mogućnosti greške očevidaca -

that was part of the instigation

koje su bile deo podstreka

for a group of appeal attorneys

grupi žalbenih advokata,

led by an amazing lawyer named Ellen Eggers

predvođenih izvanrednim advokatom Elen Egers,

to pool their experience and their talents together

da udruže svoje iskustvo i talente

and petition a superior court

i da zatraže od vrhovnog suda

for a retrial for Francisco Carrillo.

ponovno suđenje za Franciska Karilja.

They retained me, as a forensic neurophysiologist,

Angažovali su mene, kao forenzičkog neurofiziologa,

because I had expertise

jer sam bio stručnjak iz oblasti

in eyewitness memory identification,

identifikovanja iz sećanja očevidaca,

which obviously makes sense for this case, right?

što je očigledno imalo smisla u ovom slučaju.

But also because I have expertise and testify about

Ali takođe i jer sam bio stručnjak i svedok

the nature of human night vision.

za prirodu ljudskog vida noću.

Well, what's that got to do with this?

Pa, kakve to veze ima s ovim slučajem?

Well, when you read through the case materials

Pa, kada čitate kroz dokazni materijal

in this Carrillo case,

u slučaju Kariljo,

one of the things that suddenly strikes you is that

jedna od stvari koja vas pogodi je ta da

the investigating officers said the lighting was good

su inspektori rekli da je osvetljenje bilo dobro

at the crime scene, at the shooting.

na mestu zločina, na mestu pucnjave.

All the teenagers testified during the trial

Svi tinejdžeri su svedočili za vreme suđenja

that they could see very well.

da su mogli dobro da vide.

But this occurred in mid-January,

Ali, ovo se desilo sredinom januara,

in the Northern Hemisphere, at 7 p.m. at night.

na severnoj hemisferi, u 7 sati uveče.

So when I did the calculations

Kada sam uradio proračune

for the lunar data and the solar data

lunarnih i solarnih podataka

at that location on Earth at the time of the incident

na toj lokaciji na Zemlji u vreme

of the shooting, all right,

kada se incident dogodio,

it was well past the end of civil twilight

bio je prošao sumrak,

and there was no moon up that night.

i nije bilo mesečine te noći.

So all the light in this area from the sun and the moon

Sva svetla te noći koja su dolazila od sunca i meseca

is what you see on the screen right here.

su ova koja vidite na ekranu.

The only lighting in that area had to come

Jedino svetlo u toj oblasti te večeri dolazilo je

from artificial sources,

iz veštačkih izvora,

and that's where I go out and I do the actual reconstruction

i tu ja nastupam - radim rekonstrukciju scene

of the scene with photometers, with various measures

sa fotometrima, različitim merama

of illumination and various other measures of

iluminacije i raznim drugim merama

color perception, along with special cameras

percepcije boja, sa specijalnim kamerama

and high-speed film, right?

i brzim filmovima.

Take all the measurements and record them, right?

Radim sva merenja i snimam ih.

And then take photographs, and this is what the scene

Onda, dobijam fotografije, i ovako izgleda

looked like at the time of the shooting

scena u vreme pucnjave

from the position of the teenagers

iz pozicije tinejdžera

looking at the car going by and shooting.

koji gledaju auto koji prolazi i pucnjavu.

This is looking directly across the street

Ovo je gledano direktno na drugu stranu ulice

from where they were standing.

sa mesta gde su oni stajali.

Remember, the investigating officers' report said

Setite se, inspektori su rekli

the lighting was good.

da je osvetljenje bilo dobro.

The teenagers said they could see very well.

Tinejdžeri su rekli da su mogli dobro da vide.

This is looking down to the east,

Ovo je pogled ka istoku,

where the shooting vehicle sped off,

gde je auto otišao nakon pucnjave,

and this is the lighting directly behind the father

a ovo je osvetljenje direktno iza oca

and the teenagers.

i iza tinejdžera.

As you can see, it is at best poor.

Vidite, u najboljem slučaju je loše.

No one's going to call this well-lit, good lighting,

Niko ovo ne može da nazove dobro osvetljeno

and in fact, as nice as these pictures are,

i u stvari, koliko god da su ove slike dobre,

and the reason we take them is I knew I was going to have to testify in court,

a slikao sam ih jer sam znao da ću svedočiti na sudu,

and a picture is worth more than a thousand words

i slika vredi više od hiljadu reči

when you're trying to communicate numbers,

kada pokušavate da saopštite brojeve,

abstract concepts like lux, the international measurement

apstraktne koncepte kao luks, internacionalne mere

of illumination, the Ishihara color perception test values.

osvetljenja, vrednosti testa percepcije boja Išihara.

When you present those to people who are not well-versed

Kada to predstavite ljudima koji nisu dobro upućeni

in those aspects of science and that, they become

u taj aspekt nauke, oni postaju

salamanders in the noonday sun. It's like

kao gušteri na popodnevnom suncu. To je kao

talking about the tangent of the visual angle, all right?

da govorimo o tangensu ugla, ok?

Their eyes just glaze over, all right?

Njihove oči samo zure.

A good forensic expert also has to be a good educator,

Dobar forenzički ekspert mora biti i dobar edukator,

a good communicator, and that's part of the reason

dobar komunikator i to je deo razloga

why we take the pictures, to show not only

zašto smo napravili ove slike, da pokažemo

where the light sources are, and what we call the spill,

ne samo gde su izvori svetlosti, i takozvano razlivanje,

the distribution, but also so that it's easier

distribucija, već i zato što je lakše

for the trier of fact to understand the circumstances.

onome ko prosuđuje da razume okolnosti.

So these are some of the pictures that, in fact,

Dakle, ovo su neke od slika koje sam, u stvari,

I used when I testified,

koristio dok sam svedočio,

but more importantly were, to me as a scientist,

ali važnija za mene kao naučnika su bila ta

are those readings, the photometer readings,

očitavanja fotometra

which I can then convert into actual predictions

koja sam ja onda konvertovao u prognoze

of the visual capability of the human eye

mogućnosti vida ljudskog oka

under those circumstances,

pod tim okolnostima,

and from my readings that I recorded at the scene

i iz tih očitavanja koja sam snimio na licu mesta

under the same solar and lunar conditions

pod istim sunčevim i mesečevim

at the same time, so on and so forth, right,

svetlosnim uslovima, u isto vreme, i tako dalje,

I could predict

mogao sam da predvidim

that there would be no reliable color perception,

da neće biti pouzdane percepcije boja,

which is crucial for face recognition,

što je najvažnije za prepoznavanje lica,

and that there would be only scotopic vision,

i da će biti samo zatamnjenog prizora,

which means there would be very little resolution,

što znači da će biti veoma male rezolucije,

what we call boundary or edge detection,

što zovemo ocrtavanje ivica,

and that furthermore, because the eyes would have been

i da će štaviše, jer su oči

totally dilated under this light, the depth of field,

potpuno proširene pod ovakvom svetlošću, dubina polja

the distance at which you can focus and see details,

daljina na koju se fokusirate da biste videli detalje,

would have been less than 18 inches away.

biti manja od 45 cm.

I testified to that to the court,

Tako sam svedočio na sudu,

and while the judge was very attentive,

i dok je sudija bio veoma pažljiv,

it had been a very, very long hearing

to je bilo veoma dugo saslušanje

for this petition for a retrial, and as a result,

za zahtev za ponovno suđenje, i kao rezultat,

I noticed out of the corner of my eye

ja sam krajičkom oka primetio

that I thought that maybe the judge was going to need

da će sudiji možda biti potrebno

a little more of a nudge

malo više podstreka

than just more numbers.

od samih brojki.

And here I became a bit audacious,

I tu sam se malo drznuo,

and I turned

okrenuo sam se,

and I asked the judge,

i upitao sudiju:

I said, "Your Honor, I think you should go out

"Vaša Visosti, mislim da bi trebalo da izađete

and look at the scene yourself."

na lice mesta i pogledate sami."

Now I may have used a tone which was more like a dare

Možda sam govorio tonom koji je zvučao više kao začikavanje

than a request — (Laughter) —

nego kao zahtev - (Smeh) -

but nonetheless, it's to this man's credit and his courage

ali bilo kako bilo, zahvaljujući hrabrosti ovog čoveka,

that he said, "Yes, I will."

on je rekao: "Da, hoću."

A shocker in American jurisprudence.

Šok u američkom pravosuđu.

So in fact, we found the same identical conditions,

Stvorili smo identične uslove,

we reconstructed the entire thing again,

rekonstruisali smo čitavu stvar ponovo,

he came out with an entire brigade of sheriff's officers

on je došao sa celom brigadom oficira

to protect him in this community, all right? (Laughter)

da ga štite u ovom kraju, ok? (Smeh)

We had him stand actually slightly in the street,

Stavili smo ga da stane malo više ka ulici,

so closer to the suspect vehicle, the shooter vehicle,

znači bliže vozilu iz koga je pucano

than the actual teenagers were,

nego što su tinejdžeri stajali,

so he stood a few feet from the curb

na oko metar udaljenosti od ivičnjaka

toward the middle of the street.

ka sredini ulice.

We had a car that came by,

Auto je prošao,

same identical car as described by the teenagers, right?

isti auto kao što su opisali tinejdžeri;

It had a driver and a passenger,

unutra su bili vozač i suvozač,

and after the car had passed the judge by,

i kada je auto prošao sudiju,

the passenger extended his hand,

suvozač je ispružio ruku,

pointed it back to the judge as the car continued on,

i uperio ka sudiji dok je auto nastavio da ide,

just as the teenagers had described it, right?

baš kako su tinejdžeri opisali, ok?

Now, he didn't use a real gun in his hand,

Nije imao pravi pištolj u ruci,

so he had a black object in his hand that was similar

već crni predmet sličan

to the gun that was described.

pištolju koji je opisan.

He pointed by, and this is what the judge saw.

Uperio je, i evo šta je sudija video.

This is the car 30 feet away from the judge.

Ovo je auto 9 metara udaljen od sudije.

There's an arm sticking out of the passenger side

Ruka viri sa suvozačevog mesta

and pointed back at you.

i uperena je ka nama.

That's 30 feet away.

To je udaljenost od 9 metara.

Some of the teenagers said that in fact the car

Neki tinedžeri tvrdili su da je auto u stvari

was 15 feet away when it shot.

bio 4,5 metra udaljen kada je pucao.

Okay. There's 15 feet.

U redu. Ovo je 4,5 metra.

At this point, I became a little concerned.

U tom trenutku, malo sam se zabrinuo.

This judge is someone you'd never want to play poker with.

Ovaj sudija je neko s kim nikada ne biste poželeli da igrate poker.

He was totally stoic. I couldn't see a twitch of his eyebrow.

Bio je totalni stoik. Nisam mogao da primetim ni trzaj njegove obrve.

I couldn't see the slightest bend of his head.

Niti najmanji pokret glavom.

I had no sense of how he was reacting to this,

Nisam mogao da osetim kako je reagovao na ovo,

and after he looked at this reenactment,

i nakon što je pogledao ovu rekonstrukciju,

he turned to me and he says,

okrenuo se ka meni i pitao:

"Is there anything else you want me to look at?"

"Da li postoji još nešto što želite da pogledam?"

I said, "Your honor," and I don't know whether I was

Rekao sam: "Vaša Visosti," i ne znam da li sam bio

emboldened by the scientific measurements that I had

ohrabren naučnim merenjma koja sam imao

in my pocket and my knowledge that they are accurate,

u svom džepu i svojim znanjem da su tačna

or whether it was just sheer stupidity,

ili je to bila moja glupost,

which is what the defense lawyers thought — (Laughter) —

što su mislili advokati odbrane - (Smeh) -

when they heard me say,

kada su me čuli da izgovaram:

"Yes, Your Honor, I want you stand right there

"Da, Vaša Visosti, želim da stanete ovde

and I want the car to go around the block again

i želim da auto prođe još jednom

and I want it to come and I want it to stop

i želim da zastane

right in front of you, three to four feet away,

tačno ispred Vas, na oko metar od Vas,

and I want the passenger to extend his hand

i želim da suvozač ispruži ruku

with a black object and point it right at you,

i uperi u Vas sa crnim predmetom

and you can look at it as long as you want."

i da Vi gledate u njega koliko hoćete."

And that's what he saw. (Laughter)

I ovo je on video. (Smeh)

You'll notice, which was also in my test report,

Primetićete, što sam i uključio u svoj izveštaj,

all the dominant lighting is coming from the north side,

da dominantno osvetljenje dolazi sa severne strane,

which means that the shooter's face would

što znači da bi lice strelca

have been photo-occluded. It would have been backlit.

bilo zatamnjeno.

Furthermore, the roof of the car

Štaviše, krov automobila

is causing what we call a shadow cloud inside the car

baca senku na unutrašnjost automobila

which is making it darker.

i čini je još tamnijom.

And this is three to four feet away.

I ovo je sa daljine od oko metar.

Why did I take the risk?

Zašto sam rizikovao?

I knew that the depth of field was 18 inches or less.

Znao sam da je dubina polja oko 45 cm ili manje.

Three to four feet, it might as well have been

Metar udaljenosti, mogao je biti

a football field away.

i čitav fudbalski teren daleko.

This is what he saw.

Ovo je on video.

He went back, there was a few more days of evidence

Vratio se, bilo je još nekoliko dana za dokaze.

that was heard. At the end of it,

Na kraju,

he made the judgment that he was going to grant

odlučio je da će dozvoliti

the petition for a retrial.

peticiju za ponovno suđenje.

And furthermore, he released Mr. Carrillo

Štaviše, oslobodio je gospodina Karilja

so that he could aid in the preparation of his own defense

da bi mogao da pomogne u pripremi svoje odbrane

if the prosecution decided to retry him.

ukoliko tužilaštvo odluči da mu ponovo sudi.

Which they decided not to.

Što su oni odlučili da ne urade.

He is now a freed man. (Applause)

On je sada oslobođen čovek. (Aplauz)

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

This is him embracing his grandmother-in-law.

Ovo je on kako grli babu svoje supruge.

He -- His girlfriend was pregnant when he went to trial,

Njegova devojka je bila trudna kada je otišao na suđenje.

right? And she had a little baby boy.

Rodila je dečaka.

He and his son are both attending Cal State, Long Beach

On i njegov sin zajedno pohađaju kalifornijski univerzitet u Long Biču,

right now taking classes. (Applause)

idu na časove. (Aplauz)

And what does this example --

I šta nam pokazuje ovaj primer -

what's important to keep in mind for ourselves?

šta je važno da zapamtimo?

First of all, there's a long history of antipathy

Pre svega, postoji duga istorija antipatije

between science and the law

između nauke i zakona

in American jurisprudence.

u američkom pravosuđu.

I could regale you with horror stories of ignorance

Mogao bih vas počastiti horor pričama o neznanju

over decades of experience as a forensic expert

koje sam iskusio kao forenzički ekspert tokom decenija

of just trying to get science into the courtroom.

pokušavajući da uvedem nauku u sudnice.

The opposing council always fight it and oppose it.

Protivnički advokati se suprotstave, i pobiju dokaze.

One suggestion is that all of us become much more

Jedan predlog je da svi postanemo mnogo više

attuned to the necessity, through policy,

okrenuti ka neophodnosti, kroz pravila,

through procedures,

kroz procedure,

to get more science in the courtroom,

da bismo dobili više nauke u sudnici,

and I think one large step toward that

i mislim da je veliki korak ka tome

is more requirements,

više zahteva -

with all due respect to the law schools,

uz svo poštovanje pravnim fakultetima -

of science, technology, engineering, mathematics

za naukom, tehnologijom, tehnikom, matematikom

for anyone going into the law,

za sve koji uče pravo,

because they become the judges.

jer oni postaju sudije.

Think about how we select our judges in this country.

Razmislite kako biramo sudije u našoj zemlji.

It's very different than most other cultures. All right?

Drugačije je nego u drugim zemljama, zar ne?

The other one that I want to suggest,

Druga stvar koju bih predložio,

the caution that all of us have to have,

je oprez koji svi moramo da imamo;

I constantly have to remind myself,

ja stalno moram da se podsećam

about just how accurate are the memories

koliko su tačna sećanja

that we know are true, that we believe in?

za koja mislimo da su istinita, u koja verujemo?

There is decades of research,

Decenije istraživanja,

examples and examples of cases like this,

primeri i primeri slučajeva kao što je ovaj,

where individuals

gde pojedinci zaista veruju

really, really believe. None of those teenagers

u svoja sećanja. Nijedan od ovih tinejdžera

who identified him

koji su identifikovali počinioca

thought that they were picking the wrong person.

nije mislio da greši.

None of them thought they couldn't see the person's face.

Niko od njih nije pomislio da možda nije mogao da vidi lice.

We all have to be very careful.

Svi moramo biti pažljivi.

All our memories are reconstructed memories.

Sva naša sećanja su rekonstruisana.

They are the product of what we originally experienced

Naša sećanja su proizvod onoga što smo doživeli

and everything that's happened afterwards.

i svega što se desilo nakon toga.

They're dynamic.

Ona su dinamična.

They're malleable. They're volatile,

Ona su savitljiva. Ona su promenljiva,

and as a result, we all need to remember to be cautious,

iz tog razloga, svi moramo da zapamtimo da treba da budemo oprezni

that the accuracy of our memories

i da tačnost naših sećanja

is not measured in how vivid they are

ne može da se meri po tome koliko su ona živopisna

nor how certain you are that they're correct.

niti po tome koliko smo mi sigurni u to da su tačna.

Thank you. (Applause)

Hvala vam. (Aplauz)