Deborah Gordon: What ants teach us about the brain, cancer and the Internet

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuća Lektor: Mile Živković

I study ants

Ja proučavam mrave

in the desert, in the tropical forest

u pustinji, u tropskoj šumi

and in my kitchen,

i u svojoj kuhinji

and in the hills around Silicon Valley where I live.

kao i u brdima oko Silikonske doline, gde živim.

I've recently realized that ants

Nedavno sam shvatila da mravi

are using interactions differently

različito koriste interakcije u različitim okruženjima,

in different environments,

i to me je navelo na razmišljanje

and that got me thinking that we could learn from this

da bismo mogli da iz ovoga učimo o drugim sistemima,

about other systems,

like brains and data networks that we engineer,

kao što su mozgovi i mreže podataka kojima upravljamo,

and even cancer.

pa čak i rak.

So what all these systems have in common

Ono što svi ovi sistemi imaju zajedničko

is that there's no central control.

jeste to da ne postoji centralna kontrola.

An ant colony consists of sterile female workers --

Kolonija mrava se sastoji od sterilnih radilica -

those are the ants you see walking around —

to su mravi koje viđate kako šetaju okolo -

and then one or more reproductive females

i od jedne ili više reproduktivnih ženki

who just lay the eggs.

koje samo polažu jaja.

They don't give any instructions.

One ne daju nikakve instrukcije.

Even though they're called queens,

Iako se nazivaju kraljicama,

they don't tell anybody what to do.

one ne govore nikome šta da radi.

So in an ant colony, there's no one in charge,

U koloniji mrava, niko nije nadležan,

and all systems like this without central control

i svi sistemi bez centralne kontrole kao što je ovaj

are regulated using very simple interactions.

se regulišu koristeći vrlo jednostavne interakcije.

Ants interact using smell.

Mravi komuniciraju koristeći miris.

They smell with their antennae,

Oni mirišu svojim antenama,

and they interact with their antennae,

i komuniciraju svojim antenama,

so when one ant touches another with its antennae,

tako da kada jedan mrav dodirne drugog svojim antenama,

it can tell, for example, if the other ant

može zaključiti, na primer,

is a nestmate

da li je drugi mrav iz iste kolonije

and what task that other ant has been doing.

i kakav zadatak taj drugi mrav obavlja.

So here you see a lot of ants moving around

Ovde vidite mnogo mrava koji se kreću okolo

and interacting in a lab arena

i komuniciraju u laboratorijskoj areni

that's connected by tubes to two other arenas.

koja je povezana cevima sa druge dve arene.

So when one ant meets another,

Dakle, kada jedan mrav sretne drugog,

it doesn't matter which ant it meets,

nije bitno kog mrava sretne,

and they're actually not transmitting

i oni zapravo ne šalju

any kind of complicated signal or message.

nikakav komplikovani signal ili poruku.

All that matters to the ant is the rate

Sve što je bitno za mrava jeste tempo

at which it meets other ants.

kojim sreće drugog mrava.

And all of these interactions, taken together,

I sve ove interakcije, uzete zajedno,

produce a network.

stvaraju mrežu.

So this is the network of the ants

Ovo je mreža mrava

that you just saw moving around in the arena,

koje ste malopre videli kako se kreću po areni,

and it's this constantly shifting network

i ova stalno promenljiva mreža je ta

that produces the behavior of the colony,

koja proizvodi ponašanje kolonije,

like whether all the ants are hiding inside the nest,

kao što je to da li su svi mravi skriveni u gnezdu,

or how many are going out to forage.

ili koliko njih izlazi u nabavku hrane.

A brain actually works in the same way,

Mozak zapravo radi na isti način,

but what's great about ants is

ali ono što je sjajno kod mrava je to što možete videti

that you can see the whole network as it happens.

čitavu mrežu dok se to dešava.

There are more than 12,000 species of ants,

Postoji više od 12 000 vrsta mrava,

in every conceivable environment,

u svakoj sredini koju možete zamisliti,

and they're using interactions differently

i različito koriste interakcije

to meet different environmental challenges.

kako bi se suočile sa različitim izazovima sredine.

So one important environmental challenge

Jedan značajan sredinski izazov

that every system has to deal with

sa kojim svaki sistem mora da se suoči

is operating costs, just what it takes

jesu operativni troškovi,

to run the system.

ono što je potrebno za pokretanje sistema.

And another environmental challenge is resources,

A drugi sredinski izazov su resursi,

finding them and collecting them.

njihovo pronalaženje i prikupljanje.

In the desert, operating costs are high

U pustinji, operativni troškovi su veliki

because water is scarce,

jer nema dovoljno vode,

and the seed-eating ants that I study in the desert

i mravi koje izučavam u pustinji koji jedu semenje

have to spend water to get water.

moraju da troše vodu da bi došli do vode.

So an ant outside foraging,

Dakle, mrav u potrazi za hranom,

searching for seeds in the hot sun,

tragajući sa semenjem po vrućini,

just loses water into the air.

samo gubi vodu u vazduh.

But the colony gets its water

Ali kolonija dobija svoju vodu

by metabolizing the fats out of the seeds

metabolišući masnoće iz semenki

that they eat.

koje jedu.

So in this environment, interactions are used

Dakle, u ovoj sredini, interakcije se koriste

za aktiviranje potrage za hranom.

to activate foraging.

An outgoing forager doesn't go out unless

Tragač ne kreće u potragu ako ne dobije

it gets enough interactions with returning foragers,

dovoljno interakcije sa tragačima koji se vraćaju,

and what you see are the returning foragers

i ono što vidite su tragači u povratku

going into the tunnel, into the nest,

koji idu u tunel, u gnezdo,

and meeting outgoing foragers on their way out.

i sreću tragače pri polasku napolje.

This makes sense for the ant colony,

Ovo ima smisla za koloniju mrava,

because the more food there is out there,

jer što više hrane ima napolju,

the more quickly the foragers find it,

tragači će je brže naći,

the faster they come back,

brže će se vratiti,

and the more foragers they send out.

i više će tragača poslati napolje.

The system works to stay stopped,

Sistem radi tako da ostaje zaustavljen,

unless something positive happens.

dok se nešto pozitivno ne dogodi.

So interactions function to activate foragers.

Tako interakcije funkcionišu da bi aktivirale tragače za hranom.

And we've been studying the evolution of this system.

Izučavali smo evoluciju ovog sistema.

First of all, there's variation.

Najpre, postoje varijacije.

It turns out that colonies are different.

Ispostavilo se da su kolonije različite.

On dry days, some colonies forage less,

Sušnim danima, neke kolonije manje tragaju za hranom,

so colonies are different in how

dakle, kolonije se razlikuju po tome kako rukovode

they manage this trade-off

between spending water to search for seeds

ovom razmenom trošenja vode

da bi se tragalo za semenjem

and getting water back in the form of seeds.

i ponovnog dobijanja vode u obliku semenja.

Pokušavamo da razumemo zašto neke kolonije

And we're trying to understand why

some colonies forage less than others

tragaju za hranom manje od drugih

by thinking about ants as neurons,

razmišljajući o mravima kao o neuronima,

using models from neuroscience.

koristeći modele iz neurologije.

So just as a neuron adds up its stimulation

Kao što neuron sabira stimulaciju drugih neurona

from other neurons to decide whether to fire,

da bi odlučio da li da se upali,

an ant adds up its stimulation from other ants

mrav sabira stimulaciju drugih mrava

to decide whether to forage.

da bi odlučio da li da traga za hranom.

And what we're looking for is whether there might be

A ono što tražimo je da li bi moglo biti

small differences among colonies

malih razlika među kolonijama

in how many interactions each ant needs

u pogledu toga koliko je interakcija svakom mravu potrebno

pre nego što postane voljan da izađe u potragu za hranom,

before it's willing to go out and forage,

because a colony like that would forage less.

jer bi takva kolonija manje tragala za hranom.

And this raises an analogous question about brains.

Ovo pokreće analogno pitanje o mozgovima.

We talk about the brain,

Pričamo o mozgu,

but of course every brain is slightly different,

ali naravno, svaki mozak je nešto drugačiji,

and maybe there are some individuals

i možda ima nekih pojedinaca

or some conditions

ili nekih uslova

in which the electrical properties of neurons are such

u kojima su elektronska svojstva neurona takva

that they require more stimulus to fire,

da zahtevaju više podsticaja da bi opalili,

and that would lead to differences in brain function.

a to bi dovelo do razlika u funkciji mozga.

So in order to ask evolutionary questions,

Dakle, da bismo postavili evoluciona pitanja,

we need to know about reproductive success.

potrebno je da saznamo o reproduktivnom uspehu.

This is a map of the study site

Ovo je mapa mesta istraživanja

where I have been tracking this population

gde sam pratila ovu populaciju

of harvester ant colonies for 28 years,

kolonija mrava žetelaca kroz 28 godina,

which is about as long as a colony lives.

što je otprilike onoliko koliko kolonija živi.

Each symbol is a colony,

Svaki simbol je kolonija,

and the size of the symbol is how many offspring it had,

a veličina simbola označava koliko je imala potomaka,

because we were able to use genetic variation

jer smo mogli da koristimo genetske varijacije

to match up parent and offspring colonies,

da bismo spojili kolonije roditelja i potomaka,

that is, to figure out which colonies

odnosno, da bismo otkrili koje kolonije

were founded by a daughter queen

je osnovala ćerka kraljica

produced by which parent colony.

i koja roditeljska kolonija ju je stvorila.

And this was amazing for me, after all these years,

Ovo je bilo neverovatno za mene,

to find out, for example, that colony 154,

otkriti posle svih tih godina, na primer, da kolonija 154,

whom I've known well for many years,

koju sam dobro znala mnogo godina,

is a great-grandmother.

je prababa.

Here's her daughter colony,

Ovo je njena ćerka kolonija,

here's her granddaughter colony,

ovo je njena unuka kolonija,

and these are her great-granddaughter colonies.

a ovo su njene praunuke kolonije.

And by doing this, I was able to learn

Radeći ovo, mogla sam da saznam

that offspring colonies resemble parent colonies

da kolonije potomaka podsećaju na kolonije roditelja

in their decisions about which days are so hot

po svojim odlukama o tome koji dani su toliko vreli

that they don't forage,

da neće ići u potragu za hranom,

and the offspring of parent colonies

a potomci roditeljskih kolonija

live so far from each other that the ants never meet,

žive međusobno toliko daleko da se mravi nikada ne sreću,

so the ants of the offspring colony

tako da mravi kolonije potomka

can't be learning this from the parent colony.

ne mogu da ovo nauče od kolonije roditelja.

And so our next step is to look

Naš sledeći korak je bio da potražimo genetsku varijaciju

for the genetic variation underlying this resemblance.

koja se nalazi u osnovi ove sličnosti.

So then I was able to ask, okay, who's doing better?

Tada sam mogla da pitam, okej, kome ide bolje?

Over the time of the study,

Vremenom kroz istraživanje,

and especially in the past 10 years,

naročito u poslednjih 10 godina,

there's been a very severe and deepening drought

došlo je do veoma teške i zaoštravajuće suše

in the Southwestern U.S.,

u jugozapadu SAD-a,

and it turns out that the colonies that conserve water,

i ispostavilo se da kolonije koje čuvaju vodu,

that stay in when it's really hot outside,

koje ostaju unutra kada je zaista vruće napolju,

and thus sacrifice getting as much food as possible,

i tako žrtvuju pribavljanje što više moguće hrane,

are the ones more likely to have offspring colonies.

su one koje će verovatnije imati kolonije potomaka.

So all this time, I thought that colony 154

Sve ovo vreme sam mislila

da je kolonija 154 gubitnik, jer bi veoma vrelih dana

was a loser, because on really dry days,

there'd be just this trickle of foraging,

bilo samo mrvica prikupljene hrane,

while the other colonies were out

dok su druge kolonije bile napolju u traganju, pribavljajući dosta hrane,

foraging, getting lots of food,

but in fact, colony 154 is a huge success.

ali u stvari, kolonija 154 je veoma uspešna.

She's a matriarch.

Ona je matrijarh.

She's one of the rare great-grandmothers on the site.

Ona je jedna od retkih prababa na lokaciji.

To my knowledge, this is the first time

Koliko ja znam, ovo je prvi put

that we've been able to track

da smo mogli da pratimo

the ongoing evolution of collective behavior

evoluciju kolektivnog ponašanja dok se ona odvija

in a natural population of animals

u prirodnoj populaciji životinja

and find out what's actually working best.

i saznamo šta zaista najbolje funkcioniše.

Now, the Internet uses an algorithm

Internet koristi algoritam

to regulate the flow of data

da bi regulisao protok podataka

that's very similar to the one

koji je veoma sličan onome

that the harvester ants are using to regulate

koji mravi žeteoci koriste za regulaciju

the flow of foragers.

kretanja tragača za hranom.

And guess what we call this analogy?

Pogodite kako zovemo ovu analogiju?

The anternet is coming.

Anternet stiže.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

So data doesn't leave the source computer

Podaci ne napuštaju izvorni računar

unless it gets a signal that there's enough bandwidth

dok ne dobiju signal da je širina opsega dovoljna

for it to travel on.

da bi putovali.

In the early days of the Internet,

Ranih dana interneta,

when operating costs were really high

kada su operativni troškovi bili vrlo visoki

and it was really important not to lose any data,

i bilo je jako važno ne gubiti nimalo podataka,

then the system was set up for interactions

sistem je bio podešen za interakcije

to activate the flow of data.

da bi aktivirao protok podataka.

It's interesting that the ants are using an algorithm

Interesantno je da mravi koriste algoritam

that's so similar to the one that we recently invented,

koji je toliko sličan onome koji smo skoro pronašli,

but this is only one of a handful of ant algorithms

ali je to samo jedan u mnoštvu mravljih algoritama

that we know about,

za koje znamo,

and ants have had 130 million years

a mravi su imali 130 miliona godina

to evolve a lot of good ones,

da razviju dosta onih dobrih,

and I think it's very likely

i mislim da je veoma verovatno

that some of the other 12,000 species

da će neke od ostalih 12 000 vrsta

are going to have interesting algorithms

imati zanimljive algoritme

for data networks

za mreže podataka

that we haven't even thought of yet.

o kojima mi još nismo ni razmišljali.

So what happens when operating costs are low?

Šta se dešava kada su operativni troškovi niski?

Operating costs are low in the tropics,

Operativni troškovi su niski u tropskim krajevima,

because it's very humid, and it's easy for the ants

jer je veoma vlažno, i mravima je lako

to be outside walking around.

da budu napolju krećući se unaokolo.

But the ants are so abundant

Ali mravi su toliko rasprostranjeni i raznovrsni u tropskim krajevima

and diverse in the tropics

that there's a lot of competition.

da ima mnogo konkurencije.

Whatever resource one species is using,

Koji god resurs jedna vrsta koristi,

another species is likely to be using that

druga vrsta ga verovatno

at the same time.

istovremeno koristi.

So in this environment, interactions are used

Stoga se u ovoj sredini interakcije koriste

in the opposite way.

na suprotan način.

The system keeps going

Sistem nastavlja da radi dok se nešto negativno ne desi,

unless something negative happens,

and one species that I study makes circuits

i jedna vrsta koju izučavam

in the trees of foraging ants

pravi kružne putanje u drveću mrava sakupljača

going from the nest to a food source and back,

idući od gnezda do izvora hrane i nazad,

just round and round,

samo ukrug i ukrug, dok se nešto negativno ne desi,

unless something negative happens,

like an interaction

kao što je interakcija

with ants of another species.

sa mravima druge vrste.

So here's an example of ant security.

Evo primera mravljeg obezbeđenja.

In the middle, there's an ant

U sredini se nalazi mrav koji zapušava ulaz u gnezdo svojom glavom

plugging the nest entrance with its head

in response to interactions with another species.

kao odgovor na interakcije sa drugim vrstama.

Those are the little ones running around

To su malecki koji trče okolo

with their abdomens up in the air.

sa svojim trbusima izbačenim u vazduhu.

But as soon as the threat is passed,

Ali čim pretnja prođe,

the entrance is open again,

ulaz je ponovo otvoren,

and maybe there are situations

i možda ima situacija

u kompjuterskoj bezbednosti

in computer security

where operating costs are low enough

gde su operativni troškovi dovoljno niski

that we could just block access temporarily

da možemo da samo blokiramo pristup privremeno,

in response to an immediate threat,

kao odgovor na trenutnu pretnju,

and then open it again,

i zatim ga ponovo otvorimo,

instead of trying to build

umesto pokušaja da izgradimo

a permanent firewall or fortress.

trajni zaštitni zid ili tvrđavu.

So another environmental challenge

Drugi sredinski izazov

that all systems have to deal with

kojim svi sistemi moraju da se bave

is resources, finding and collecting them.

jesu resursi, njihovo pronalaženje i prikupljanje.

And to do this, ants solve the problem

A da bi to činili, mravi rešavaju problem

of collective search,

kolektivne potrage,

and this is a problem that's of great interest

i to je problem koji je sada

right now in robotics,

od velikog značaja u robotici,

because we've understood that,

jer smo shvatili da,

rather than sending a single,

umesto slanja jednog,

sophisticated, expensive robot out

sofisticiranog, skupog robota

to explore another planet

da istraži drugu planetu

or to search a burning building,

ili da pretraži zgradu koja gori,

that instead, it may be more effective

da umesto toga, može biti efektivnije

to get a group of cheaper robots

uzeti grupu jeftinijih robota

exchanging only minimal information,

koji će razmenjivati samo minimum informacija,

and that's the way that ants do it.

a to je način na koji mravi to čine.

So the invasive Argentine ant

Tako invazivni argentinski mrav

makes expandable search networks.

pravi proširive mreže pretrage.

They're good at dealing with the main problem

Oni su dobri u bavljenju glavnim problemom

of collective search,

kolektivne potrage,

which is the trade-off between

a to je kompromis između

searching very thoroughly

vrlo temeljnog traganja

and covering a lot of ground.

i pokrivanja mnogo zemlje.

A ono što rade jeste,

And what they do is,

when there are many ants in a small space,

kada ima mnogo mrava na malom prostoru,

then each one can search very thoroughly

onda svaki od njih može da traži vrlo temeljno

because there will be another ant nearby

jer će biti drugi mrav u blizini

searching over there,

koji traga tamo,

but when there are a few ants

ali kada ima malo mrava

in a large space,

na velikom prostoru,

then they need to stretch out their paths

onda treba da rašire svoje putanje

to cover more ground.

da bi pokrili više terena.

I think they use interactions to assess density,

Mislim da koriste interakcije da procene gustinu,

so when they're really crowded,

pa kada je stvarno gužva,

they meet more often,

češće se sreću,

and they search more thoroughly.

i tragaju temeljnije.

Different ant species must use different algorithms,

Različite vrste mrava moraju koristiti različite algoritme,

because they've evolved to deal with

jer su evoluirali da se bave

different resources,

različitim resursima,

and it could be really useful to know about this,

i može biti korisno znati,

and so we recently asked ants

nedavno smo tražili od mrava

to solve the collective search problem

da reše problem kolektivne potrage

in the extreme environment

u ekstremnoj sredini

of microgravity

mikrogravitacije

in the International Space Station.

u Međunarodnoj svemirskoj stanici.

When I first saw this picture, I thought,

Kada sam prvi put videla ovu sliku,

Oh no, they've mounted the habitat vertically,

pomislila sam: O ne, montirali su stanište vertikalno,

but then I realized that, of course, it doesn't matter.

ali onda sam shvatila da, naravno, to nije bitno.

So the idea here is that the ants

Dakle, ideja je da mravi

are working so hard to hang on

rade tako vredno da vise

to the wall or the floor or whatever you call it

na zidu ili podu ili kako god ga nazovete,

that they're less likely to interact,

da je manje verovatno da će komunicirati,

i tako bi se poremetio odnos

and so the relationship between

how crowded they are and how often they meet

između toga kolika je gužva i koliko se često sreću.

would be messed up.

Još uvek analiziramo podatke.

We're still analyzing the data.

I don't have the results yet.

Još uvek nemam rezultate.

But it would be interesting to know

Ali bi bilo zanimljivo znati kako druge vrste

how other species solve this problem

rešavaju ovaj problem u različitim sredinama na Zemlji,

in different environments on Earth,

i stoga uspostavljamo program

and so we're setting up a program

to encourage kids around the world

da bismo podstakli decu širom sveta

to try this experiment with different species.

da probaju ovaj eksperiment sa različitim vrstama.

It's very simple.

Veoma je jednostavno.

It can be done with cheap materials.

Može se uraditi sa jeftinim materijalima.

And that way, we could make a global map

I na taj način možemo napraviti globalnu mapu

of ant collective search algorithms.

mravljih algoritama kolektivne potrage.

I mislim da je prilično verovatno da će invazivne vrste,

And I think it's pretty likely that the invasive species,

the ones that come into our buildings,

one koje dolaze u naše zgrade,

are going to be really good at this,

biti jako dobre u ovome,

because they're in your kitchen

zato što su u našoj kuhinji

because they're really good at finding food and water.

jer su jako dobri u pronalaženju vode i hrane.

So the most familiar resource for ants

Najpoznatiji resurs za mrave

is a picnic,

je piknik,

and this is a clustered resource.

a to je resurs na jednom mestu.

Kada je tu jedan komad voća,

When there's one piece of fruit,

there's likely to be another piece of fruit nearby,

verovatno će tu biti i drugo parče voća u blizini,

and the ants that specialize on clustered resources

i mravi koji su specijalizovani za grupisane resurse

use interactions for recruitment.

koriste interakcije za regrutovanje.

So when one ant meets another,

Kada jedan mrav sretne drugog,

or when it meets a chemical deposited

ili kada naiđe na hemijske nanose

on the ground by another,

na zemlji od drugog,

then it changes direction to follow

onda menja pravac da bi išao

in the direction of the interaction,

u pravcu interakcije,

and that's how you get the trail of ants

i tako dobijate putanju mrava

sharing your picnic.

koji dele vaš piknik.

Now this is a place where I think we might be able

Ovde mislim da možemo

to learn something from ants about cancer.

naučiti nešto od mrava o raku.

I mean, first, it's obvious that we could do a lot

Mislim, prvo, očigledno je da bismo mogli

to prevent cancer

učiniti puno toga da sprečimo rak

by not allowing people to spread around

ne dozvoljavajući ljudima da šire okolo

or sell the toxins that promote

ili prodaju toksine koji podstiču

the evolution of cancer in our bodies,

razvoj raka u našim telima,

but I don't think the ants can help us much with this

ali ne mislim da nam mravi mogu mnogo pomoći sa ovim

because ants never poison their own colonies.

jer mravi nikada ne truju sopstvene kolonije.

But we might be able to learn something from ants

Ali možda možemo naučiti nešto od mrava

about treating cancer.

o lečenju raka.

There are many different kinds of cancer.

Postoji mnogo različitih vrsta raka.

Each one originates in a particular part of the body,

Svaki od njih potiče iz određenog dela tela,

and then some kinds of cancer will spread

i zatim, neke vrste raka će se raširiti ili metastazirati

or metastasize to particular other tissues

do drugih određenih tkiva

where they must be getting resources that they need.

gde moraju pribaviti sredstva koja su im potrebna.

So if you think from the perspective

Ako razmišljate iz perspektive

of early metastatic cancer cells

ranih metastazirajućih ćelija raka

as they're out searching around

dok tragaju unaokolo

for the resources that they need,

za resursima koji su im potrebni,

if those resources are clustered,

ako su ti resursi grupisani,

they're likely to use interactions for recruitment,

verovatno je da će koristiti interakcije za regrutaciju,

and if we can figure out how cancer cells are recruiting,

a ako možemo da otkrijemo kako se ćelije raka okupljaju,

then maybe we could set traps

onda bismo možda mogli da postavimo zamke

to catch them before they become established.

da ih uhvatimo pre nego se uspostave.

So ants are using interactions in different ways

Dakle, mravi koriste interakcije na različite načine

in a huge variety of environments,

u mnogim različitim sredinama,

and we could learn from this

i možemo naučiti iz ovoga

about other systems that operate

o drugim sistemima koji rade

without central control.

bez centralne kontrole.

Using only simple interactions,

Koristeći samo proste interakcije,

ant colonies have been performing

kolonije mrava vrše neverovatne podvige

amazing feats for more than 130 million years.

više od 130 miliona godina.

We have a lot to learn from them.

Imamo mnogo da naučimo od njih.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)