Peter Eigen: How to expose the corrupt

Prevodilac: Katarina Mitrović Lektor: Ivana Korom

I am going to speak about corruption,

Govoriću o korupciji,

but I would like to juxtapose

ali bih voleo da, u isto vreme,

two different things.

govorim od dve različite stvari.

One is the large global economy,

Jedna je globalna ekonomija,

the large globalized economy,

ogromna globalizovana ekonomija,

and the other one is the small, and very limited,

a druga je mali, veoma ograničeni

capacity of our traditional governments

kapacitet naših tradicionalnih vlada

and their international institutions

i internacionalnih institucija

to govern, to shape, this economy.

da vode, oblikuju, pomenutu ekonomiju.

Because there is this asymmetry,

Zbog postojanja ove asimetrije,

which creates, basically,

dolazi do, u suštini,

failing governance.

neuspeha vlade.

Failing governance in many areas:

Neuspeh vlade ogleda se u mnogim oblastima:

in the area of corruption and the area of destruction of the environment,

u oblasti korupcije, uništavanja životne sredine

in the area of exploitation of women and children,

u oblasti eksploatacije žena i dece,

in the area of climate change,

u oblasti klimatskih promena,

in all the areas in which we really need

u svim onim oblastima u kojima nam zaista treba

a capacity to reintroduce

kapacitet za ponovnim uvođenjem

the primacy of politics

primarnosti politike

into the economy,

u ekonomiju

which is operating in a worldwide arena.

koja pokreće svet.

And I think corruption,

Mislim da je korupcija

and the fight against corruption,

i borba protiv korupcije,

and the impact of corruption,

kao i uticaj korupcije,

is probably one of the most interesting ways

jedan od najinteresantnijih načina

to illustrate what I mean

da ilustrujem ono na šta mislim

with this failure of governance.

kada kažem neuspeh vlade.

Let me talk about my own experience.

Dozvolite mi da govorim o sopstvenom iskustvu.

I used to work as the director

Radio sam kao direktor

of the World Bank office in Nairobi

kancelarije Svetske banke u Najrobiju

for East Africa.

za istočnu Afriku.

At that time, I noticed

U to vreme, sam primetio

that corruption, that grand corruption,

da korupcija, ona velika korupcija,

that systematic corruption,

sistematska korupcija

was undermining everything we were trying to do.

potkopava sve naše napore.

And therefore, I began

I stoga sam započeo

to not only try to protect

ne samo zaštitu

the work of the World Bank,

rada Svetske banke

our own projects, our own programs

naših projekata i sopstvenih programa

against corruption,

protiv korupcije,

but in general, I thought, "We need a system

nego sam pomislio: "Treba nam sistem

to protect the people

koji bi zaštitio ljude

in this part of the world

u ovom delu sveta

from the ravages of corruption."

od pustošenja korupcije".

And as soon as I started this work,

Čim sam započeo ovaj posao

I received a memorandum from the World Bank,

stigao mi je memorandum Svetske banke,

from the legal department first,

prvo iz kadrovske službe,

in which they said, "You are not allowed to do this.

u kom su mi rekli: "Nemaš dozvolu da to radiš.

You are meddling in the internal affairs of our partner countries.

Mešaš se u unutrašnje poslove zemalja partnera.

This is forbidden by the charter of the World Bank,

To zabranjuje povelja Svetske banke,

so I want you to stop your doings."

tako da prestani sa tim radnjama".

In the meantime, I was chairing

U međuvremenu, predsedavao sam

donor meetings, for instance,

donatorskim skupovima, na primer,

in which the various donors,

na kojima su različiti donatori,

and many of them like to be in Nairobi --

a mnogi od njih su voleli da budu u Najrobiju -

it is true, it is one of the

istina je, to je jedan

unsafest cities of the world,

od najnebezbednijih gradova na svetu,

but they like to be there because the other cities

ali su voleli da budu tu, jer su drugi gradovi

are even less comfortable.

bili još neugodniji.

And in these donor meetings, I noticed

I na ovim donatorskim sastancima, primetio sam

that many of the worst projects --

da mnogo loših projekata -

which were put forward

koji su gurani u prvi plan

by our clients, by the governments,

od strane naših klijenata, vlada,

by promoters,

promotera,

many of them representing

od kojih su mnogi bili

suppliers from the North --

dobavljači sa severa -

that the worst projects

dakle najgori projekti

were realized first.

bili su prvi realizovani.

Let me give you an example:

Dozvolite da vam dam primer

a huge power project,

ogroman projekat elektrane,

300 million dollars,

300 miliona dolara,

to be built smack into

ugraditi pravo u

one of the most vulnerable, and one of the most beautiful,

jednu od najranjivijih i jednu od najlepših,

areas of western Kenya.

oblasti zapadne Kenije.

And we all noticed immediately

I svi smo odmah zapazili

that this project had no economic benefits:

da ovaj projekat nema nikakvu ekonomsku dobit:

It had no clients, nobody would buy the electricity there,

nije bilo klijenata, niko ne bi kupovao struju tu,

nobody was interested in irrigation projects.

nikoga nisu zanimali irigacioni projekti.

To the contrary, we knew that this project

Naprotiv, znali smo da će ovaj projekat

would destroy the environment:

uništiti životnu sredinu:

It would destroy riparian forests,

uništiće obalske šume,

which were the basis for

koje su osnov za

the survival of nomadic groups,

preživljavanje nomadskih grupa,

the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.

u ovoj oblasti, grupa Samburu i Turkana.

So everybody knew this is a, not a useless project,

Svi smo znali da je ovo, ne beskoristan projekat,

this is an absolute damaging, a terrible project --

već totalno uništavajući i užasan projekat -

not to speak about the future indebtedness of the country

da ne govorim o budućoj prezaduženosti zemlje

for these hundreds of millions of dollars,

za ove stotine miliona dolara,

and the siphoning off

i krađi

of the scarce resources of the economy

oskudnih izvora ekonomije

from much more important activities

namenjene mnogo bitnijim aktivnostima

like schools, like hospitals and so on.

kao što su škole, bolnice i slično.

And yet, we all rejected this project,

Dakle, svi smo odbili projekat,

none of the donors was willing

ni jedan od donatora nije bio voljan

to have their name connected with it,

da mu se ime poveže sa tim projektom,

and it was the first project to be implemented.

a to je, ujedno, bio i prvi projekat koji je implementiran.

The good projects, which we as a donor community

Dobri projekti, koje bismo mi kao zajednica donatora,

would take under our wings,

uzeli pod naše okrilje,

they took years, you know,

tim projektima su bile potrebne godine, znate,

you had too many studies,

bilo je previše izveštaja,

and very often they didn't succeed.

i vrlo često nisu uspevali.

But these bad projects,

Ali ovi loši projekti,

which were absolutely damaging -- for the economy

koji su bili apsolutno upropašćavajući - za ekonomiju

for many generations, for the environment,

za mnoge generacije, za životnu sredinu,

for thousands of families who had to be resettled --

za hiljade porodica koje je trebalo raseliti --

they were suddenly put together

odjednom su složeni

by consortia of banks,

od strane konzorcijuma banaka,

of supplier agencies,

agencija dobavljača,

of insurance agencies --

osiguravajućih društava -

like in Germany, Hermes, and so on --

kao u Nemačkoj, Hermes i slični -

and they came back very, very quickly,

i ponovo su se pojavljivali, vrlo, vrlo brzo,

driven by an unholy alliance

na čelu sa mračnim savezom

between the powerful elites

između jakih elita,

in the countries there

u tim zemljama,

and the suppliers from the North.

i dobavljača sa severa.

Now, these suppliers

Dakle, ti dobavljači

were our big companies.

bili su naše velike kompanije.

They were the actors of this global market,

To su bili igrači globalnog tržišta,

which I mentioned in the beginning.

koje sam pomenuo na početku.

They were the Siemenses of this world,

To su bili Simensi ovog sveta

coming from France, from the UK, from Japan,

koji su dolazili iz Francuske, Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva, Japana,

from Canada, from Germany,

iz Kanade, iz Nemačke,

and they were systematically driven

i sistematski su vođeni,

by systematic, large-scale corruption.

sveobuhvatajućom korupcijom na svim nivoima.

We are not talking about

Ne govorimo

50,000 dollars here,

o 50 000 dolara ovde,

or 100,000 dollars there, or one million dollars there.

ili 100 000 dolara onde ili milion dolara tamo.

No, we are talking about 10 million, 20 million dollars

Ne, govorimo o 10, 20 miliona dolara

on the Swiss bank accounts,

na bankovnim računima švajcarskih banaka,

on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,

na bankovnim računima u Lihtenštajnu,

of the president's ministers,

na računima predsednikovih ministara,

the high officials in the para-statal sectors.

visokih zvaničnika u para-vladinim sektorima.

This was the reality which I saw,

Ovo je bila realnost koju sam video,

and not only one project like that:

i ne samo jedan takav projekat:

I saw, I would say,

video sam, rekao bih,

over the years I worked in Africa,

za sve one godine koliko sam radio u Africi,

I saw hundreds of projects like this.

video sam na stotine takvih projekata.

And so, I became convinced

I tako, postao sam ubeđen

that it is this systematic corruption

da je ovakva sistemska korupcija

which is perverting economic policy-making in these countries,

koja onemogućava stvaranje ekonomske politike u ovim zemljama,

which is the main reason

glavni razlog

for the misery, for the poverty,

bede, siromaštva,

for the conflicts, for the violence,

konflikata, nasilja,

for the desperation

očaja

in many of these countries.

u mnogima od ovih zemalja.

That we have today

Danas imamo

more than a billion people below the absolute poverty line,

više od milijardu ljudi ispod granice apsolutnog siromaštva,

that we have more than a billion people

više od milijardu ljudi

without proper drinking water in the world,

bez ispravne pijaće vode na svetu,

twice that number,

duplo veći broj,

more than two billion people

više od dve milijarde ljudi

without sanitation and so on,

bez sanitetskog čvora i sličnog,

and the consequent illnesses

i bolestima koje su posledice svega

of mothers and children,

bolesti majki i dece

still, child mortality of more than

smrtnost dece je veća od

10 million people every year,

10 miliona ljudi svake godine

children dying before they are five years old:

deca koja umiru pre navršene pete godine:

The cause of this is, to a large extent,

uzrok ovome, u ogromnoj meri,

grand corruption.

jeste sistemska korupcija.

Now, why did the World Bank

Dakle, zašto mi Svetska banka

not let me do this work?

nije dozvolila da radim ovaj posao?

I found out afterwards,

Saznao sam kasnije

after I left, under a big fight, the World Bank.

kada sam napustio Svetsku banku, usled velikog sukoba.

The reason was that the members of the World Bank

Razlog je što su članice Svetske banke

thought that foreign bribery was okay,

smatrale da je inostrani mito OK,

including Germany.

uključujući i Nemačku.

In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.

U Nemačkoj, inostrano mito je dozvoljeno.

It was even tax-deductible.

Čak se odbijalo i od poreza.

No wonder that most of the most important

Nije ni čudo da je većina od najvažnijih

international operators in Germany,

međunarodnih poduhvata u Nemačkoj,

but also in France and the UK

ali i u Francuskoj i Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu

and Scandinavia, everywhere, systematically bribed.

i Skandinaviji, svuda, bilo sistematski korumpirano.

Not all of them, but most of them.

Ne sve, ali većina.

And this is the phenomenon

I ovo je fenomen

which I call failing governance,

koji ja nazivam neuspehom vlade,

because when I then came to Germany

jer kada sam, onda, otišao u Nemačku

and started this little NGO

i započeo malu NVO

here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,

ovde u Berlinu, u vili Borsing,

we were told, "You cannot stop

rečeno mi je: "Ne možeš zaustaviti

our German exporters from bribing,

naše nemačke izvoznike u davanju mita,

because we will lose our contracts.

jer ćemo izgubiti naše ugovore.

We will lose to the French,

Dobiće ih Francuzi,

we will lose to the Swedes, we'll lose to the Japanese."

dobiće ih Šveđani, Japanci".

And therefore, there was a indeed a prisoner's dilemma,

I stoga, zaista je postojala zatvorenička dilema,

which made it very difficult

što je veoma otežalo

for an individual company,

pojedinačnim kompanijama

an individual exporting country

i pojedinačnim zemljama izvoznicama

to say, "We are not going to

da kažu: "Mi nećemo

continue this deadly, disastrous

nastaviti ovu smrtonosnu, katastrofalnu

habit of large companies to bribe."

naviku velikih kompanija, da podmićuju".

So this is what I mean

Dakle, evo kako ja to vidim

with a failing governance structure,

sa strukturom vlade koja je podbacila,

because even the powerful government,

jer i najsnažnija vlada

which we have in Germany, comparatively,

koju imamo u Nemačkoj, relativno,

was not able to say,

nije u mogućnosti da kaže:

"We will not allow our companies to bribe abroad."

"Nećemo dozvoliti našim kompanijama da daju mito u inostranstvu".

They needed help,

Bila im je potrebna pomoć,

and the large companies themselves

i same velike kompanije

have this dilemma.

imaju ovu dilemu.

Many of them didn't want to bribe.

Mnoge od njih nisu želele da nude mito.

Many of the German companies, for instance,

Mnoge od nemačkih kompanija, na primer,

believe that they are really

veruju da zaista

producing a high-quality product

proizvode visokokvalitetni proizvod

at a good price, so they are very competitive.

po dobroj ceni, tako da su vrlo kompetitivne.

They are not as good at bribing

One nisu toliko dobre u podmićivanju

as many of their international competitors are,

kao što su suparničke međunarodne kompanije

but they were not allowed

ali nije im dozvoljeno

to show their strengths,

da pokažu svoje snage

because the world was eaten up

zato što je svet izjeden

by grand corruption.

sistemskom korupcijom.

And this is why I'm telling you this:

I zato vam sve ovo pričam:

Civil society rose to the occasion.

Građansko društvo je podiglo svoj glas.

We had this small NGO,

Imali smo ovu malu NVO

Transparency International.

Transparency International.

They began to think of

A oni su počeli da razmišljaju

an escape route from this prisoner's dilemma,

o razrešavanju zatvoreničke dileme,

and we developed concepts

i mi smo razvili koncepte

of collective action,

grupne akcije,

basically trying to bring various competitors

u suštini privlačeći različite nadmetače

together around the table,

na jedno mesto,

explaining to all of them

i objašnjavajući im

how much it would be in their interests

koliko je zaista u njihovom interesu

if they simultaneously would stop bribing,

da u isto vreme prestanu sa podmićivanjem,

and to make a long story short,

i da skratim priču,

we managed to eventually

uspesli smo da napokon

get Germany to sign

pridobijemo Nemačku da potpiše,

together with the other OECD countries

zajedno sa ostalim OECD zemljama

and a few other exporters.

i par drugih izvoznika,

In 1997, a convention,

1997. godine, konvenciju pod nadzorom

under the auspices of the OECD,

Organizacije za ekonomsku saradnju i razvoj,

which obliged everybody

koja obavezuje sve

to change their laws

da promene svoje zakone

and criminalize foreign bribery.

i kriminaliziju inostrano podmićivanje.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,

Hvala vam, vidite interesantno je,

in doing this,

da smo radili ovo

we had to sit together with the companies.

zajedno sa kompanijama.

We had here in Berlin, at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee,

Imali smo ovde u Berlinu, na Institutu Aspen u Vanzeju,

we had sessions with about

sastanke sa oko

20 captains of industry,

20 glavešina u industriji,

and we discussed with them

i sa njima smo diskutovali

what to do about international bribery.

šta raditi po pitanju međunarodnog podmićivanja.

In the first session -- we had three sessions

Na prvom sastanku - a imali smo ih tri

over the course of two years.

u periodu od dve godine.

And President von Weizsäcker, by the way,

Predsednik fon Vajczeker je, uzgred,

chaired one of the sessions, the first one,

predsedavao prvim sastankom,

to take the fear away

da bi otklonio strah

from the entrepreneurs,

preduzetnicima,

who were not used to deal

koji nisu navikli da se hvataju u koštac

with non-governmental organizations.

sa nevladinim organizacijama.

And in the first session, they all said,

I na prvom sastanku su svi oni rekli,

"This is not bribery, what we are doing." This is customary there.

"Ovo nije mito, ovo što mi radimo". To je tamošnji običaj.

This is what these other cultures demand.

To je ono što kulture zemalja domaćina zahtevaju.

They even applaud it.

Oni to čak i podstiču.

In fact, [unclear]

Zapravo

still says this today.

i danas se to govori.

And so there are still a lot of people

Dakle, i dalje je mnogo ljudi

who are not convinced that you have to stop bribing.

koji nisu ubeđeni da je neophodno zaustaviti podmićivanje.

But in the second session,

Ali na drugom sastanku,

they admitted already that they would never do this,

priznali su da se time više neće baviti,

what they are doing in these other countries,

tim nezakonitim poslovima u drugim zemljama,

here in Germany, or in the U.K., and so on.

niti u Nemačkoj, Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu, ni drugde.

Cabinet ministers would admit this.

Kabinetski ministri su ovo izjavili.

And in the final session, at the Aspen Institute,

A na poslednjem sastanku u Institutu Aspen,

we had them all sign an open letter

svi su potpisali otvoreno pismo

to the Kohl government, at the time,

vladi premijera Kola, premijera u tom periodu,

requesting that they

zahtevajući da

participate in the OECD convention.

učestvuju u OECD konvenciji.

And this is, in my opinion,

I ovo je, po mom mišljenju,

an example of soft power,

primer "meke" snage,

because we were able to convince them

jer smo uspeli da ih ubedimo

that they had to go with us.

da moraju da se slože sa nama,

We had a longer-term time perspective.

U vidu smo imali dugoročnu perspektivu.

We had a broader,

Imali smo širi,

geographically much wider,

geografski mnogo širi,

constituency we were trying to defend.

ustavni poredak koji smo pokuašavli da odbranimo.

And that's why the law has changed.

I zato je zakon promenjen.

That's why Siemens is now in the trouble they are in

Zbog toga je Simens danas u problemu u kom jeste

and that's why MIN is in the trouble they are in.

i zbog toga je i MIN u problemu.

In some other countries, the OECD convention

U nekom drugim zemljama, OECD konvencija

is not yet properly enforced.

još uvek nije u potpunosti primenjena.

And, again, civil societies

I opet, građansko društvo

breathing down the neck of the establishment.

stoji za vratom vladama.

In London, for instance,

U Londonu, na primer,

where the BAE got away

BAE je uspela da se izvuče

with a huge corruption case,

iz ogromnog korupcijskog slučaja,

which the Serious Fraud Office tried to prosecute,

koji je gonila Kancelarija protiv ozbiljnih prevara,

100 million British pounds,

100 miliona funti,

every year for ten years,

svake godine, proteklih deset godina,

to one particular official of one particular friendly country,

davano je jednom određenom funkcioneru jedne određene prijateljske zemlje

who then bought for

koji je od tog novca kupio

44 billion pounds of military equipment.

44 milijarde funti vrednu vojnu opremu.

This case, they are not prosecuting in the UK.

Ovaj slučaj se ne tereti u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.

Why? Because they consider this

Zašto? Zato što ovo smatraju

as contrary to the security interest

suprotno bezbednosnim interesima

of the people of Great Britain.

naroda Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva.

Civil society is pushing, civil society

Građansko društvo je uporno, građansko društvo

is trying to get a solution to this problem,

pokušava da nađe rešenje ovog problema,

also in the U.K.,

kako u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu,

and also in Japan, which is not properly enforcing,

tako i u Japanu, a to nije dovoljno dobro podržano,

and so on.

i tako dalje.

In Germany, we are pushing

U Nemačkoj, trudimo se

the ratification of the UN convention,

da ratifikujemo konvenciju UN,

which is a subsequent convention.

a to je konvencija koja je usledila.

We are, Germany, is not ratifying.

Mi, u Nemačkoj, je nismo ratifikovali.

Why? Because it would make it necessary

Zašto? Zato što bi nas to obavezalo

to criminalize the corruption

da kriminalizujemo korupciju

of deputies.

poslanika.

In Germany, we have a system where

U Nemačkoj, imamo sistem koji

you are not allowed to bribe a civil servant,

ne dozvoljava da podmitiš državnog službenika,

but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.

ali smeš da podmitiš poslanika.

This is, under German law, allowed,

Ovo je dozvoljeno u nemačkom zakonodavstvu,

and the members of our parliament don't want to change this,

i članovi našeg Parlamenta ne žele da to menjaju,

and this is why they can't sign

i to je razlog zašto ne potpisuju

the U.N. convention against foreign bribery --

konvenciju UN protiv inostranog podmićivanja -

one of they very, very few countries

jedna smo od vrlo retkih zemalja

which is preaching honesty and good governance everywhere in the world,

koje zagovaraju poštene i dobre vlade širom sveta,

but not able to ratify the convention,

ali ne ratifikuju konvenciju,

which we managed to get on the books

koju smo uspeli da uvedemo u zakonodavstvo

with about 160 countries all over the world.

preko 160 zemalja širom sveta.

I see my time is ticking.

Vidim da mi vreme ističe.

Let me just try to

Dozvolite da samo pokušam

draw some conclusions from what has happened.

da izvedem neke zaključke iz ovoga što se zbilo.

I believe that what we managed to achieve

Verujem da smo uspeli da postignemo

in fighting corruption,

u borbi protiv korupcije,

one can also achieve

ono što se može postići

in other areas of failing governance.

u drugim oblastima neuspelih vlada.

By now, the United Nations

Do sada, Ujedinjene nacije

is totally on our side.

u potpunosti su na našoj strani.

The World Bank has turned from Saulus to Paulus; under Wolfensohn,

Svetska banka se pretvorila iz Savla u Pavla, pod Volfensonom,

they became, I would say, the strongest

postali su, rekao bih, najjača

anti-corruption agency in the world.

anti-korupcijska agencija na svetu.

Most of the large companies

Većina velikih kompanija

are now totally convinced

sada su potpuno ubeđene

that they have to put in place

da moraju primeniti

very strong policies

veoma jaka pravila

against bribery and so on.

protiv podmićivanja i sličnog.

And this is possible because civil society

A ovo je moguće, jer građansko društvo

joined the companies

zajedno sa kompanijama

and joined the government

i zajedno sa vladama

in the analysis of the problem,

analizira problem

in the development of remedies,

i pronalazi rešenja,

in the implementation of reforms,

implementira reforme

and then later, in the monitoring of reforms.

i kasnije, prati delovanje reformi.

Of course, if civil society organizations

Naravno, ukoliko organizacije građanskog društva

want to play that role,

žele da imaju ovu ulogu,

they have to grow into this responsibility.

moraju dorasti ovakvoj odgovornosti.

Not all civil society organizations are good.

Nisu sve organizacije civilnog društva dobre.

The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.

Kju kluks klan je nevladina organizacija.

So, we must be aware

Dakle, moramo biti obazrivi

that civil society

da građansko društvo

has to shape up itself.

mora samo sebe oblikovati.

They have to have a much more

Moraju imati mnogo

transparent financial governance.

transparentnije finansijsko poslovanje.

They have to have a much more participatory governance

Moraju imati participatorno upravljanje

in many civil society organizations.

u mnogim organizacijama civilnog društva.

We also need much more competence of civil society leaders.

Lideri građanskih inicijativa moraju imati dosta kompetencija.

This is why we have set up the governance school

Zato smo napravili školu upravljanja

and the Center for Civil Society here in Berlin,

i Centar za građansko društvo, ovde u Berlinu,

because we believe most of our educational

zato što verujemo da većina naših obrazovnih

and research institutions in Germany

i istraživačkih institucija u Nemačkoj

and continental Europe in general,

i kontinentalnoj oblasti Evrope,

do not focus enough, yet,

još uvek ne obraćaju dovoljno pažnje

on empowering civil society

na osnaživanje građanskog društva

and training the leadership of civil society.

i edukovanje lidera građanskog društva.

But what I'm saying from my very practical experience:

Ali ono što vam govorim iz ličnog i veoma praktičnog, iskustva:

If civil society does it right

ukoliko građansko društvo dobro obavi svoj posao

and joins the other actors --

i uključi druge aktere -

in particular, governments,

posebno vlade,

governments and their international institutions,

vlade i njihove međunarodne institucije,

but also large international actors,

ali i velike međunarodne igrače,

in particular those which have committed themselves

posebno one koji su se već posvetili

to corporate social responsibility --

korporativnoj socijalnoj odgovornosti -

then in this magical triangle

onda u ovom magičnom trouglu

between civil society,

između građanskog društva,

government and private sector,

vlade i privatnog sektora,

there is a tremendous chance

ogromna je šansa

for all of us to create a better world.

za sve nas, da kreiramo bolji svet.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)