Peter Eigen: How to expose the corrupt

69,579 views ・ 2010-04-01

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:15
I am going to speak about corruption,
0
15260
2000
00:17
but I would like to juxtapose
1
17260
3000
00:20
two different things.
2
20260
2000
00:22
One is the large global economy,
3
22260
5000
00:27
the large globalized economy,
4
27260
3000
00:30
and the other one is the small, and very limited,
5
30260
3000
00:33
capacity of our traditional governments
6
33260
4000
00:37
and their international institutions
7
37260
2000
00:39
to govern, to shape, this economy.
8
39260
4000
00:43
Because there is this asymmetry,
9
43260
5000
00:48
which creates, basically,
10
48260
3000
00:51
failing governance.
11
51260
2000
00:53
Failing governance in many areas:
12
53260
2000
00:55
in the area of corruption and the area of destruction of the environment,
13
55260
4000
00:59
in the area of exploitation of women and children,
14
59260
3000
01:02
in the area of climate change,
15
62260
4000
01:06
in all the areas in which we really need
16
66260
3000
01:09
a capacity to reintroduce
17
69260
5000
01:14
the primacy of politics
18
74260
3000
01:17
into the economy,
19
77260
2000
01:19
which is operating in a worldwide arena.
20
79260
4000
01:24
And I think corruption,
21
84260
2000
01:26
and the fight against corruption,
22
86260
2000
01:28
and the impact of corruption,
23
88260
2000
01:30
is probably one of the most interesting ways
24
90260
2000
01:32
to illustrate what I mean
25
92260
2000
01:34
with this failure of governance.
26
94260
3000
01:37
Let me talk about my own experience.
27
97260
4000
01:41
I used to work as the director
28
101260
3000
01:44
of the World Bank office in Nairobi
29
104260
3000
01:47
for East Africa.
30
107260
2000
01:49
At that time, I noticed
31
109260
2000
01:51
that corruption, that grand corruption,
32
111260
3000
01:54
that systematic corruption,
33
114260
2000
01:56
was undermining everything we were trying to do.
34
116260
4000
02:00
And therefore, I began
35
120260
2000
02:02
to not only try to protect
36
122260
3000
02:05
the work of the World Bank,
37
125260
2000
02:07
our own projects, our own programs
38
127260
2000
02:09
against corruption,
39
129260
2000
02:11
but in general, I thought, "We need a system
40
131260
3000
02:14
to protect the people
41
134260
2000
02:16
in this part of the world
42
136260
2000
02:18
from the ravages of corruption."
43
138260
3000
02:21
And as soon as I started this work,
44
141260
3000
02:24
I received a memorandum from the World Bank,
45
144260
3000
02:27
from the legal department first,
46
147260
2000
02:29
in which they said, "You are not allowed to do this.
47
149260
2000
02:31
You are meddling in the internal affairs of our partner countries.
48
151260
4000
02:35
This is forbidden by the charter of the World Bank,
49
155260
3000
02:38
so I want you to stop your doings."
50
158260
3000
02:41
In the meantime, I was chairing
51
161260
2000
02:43
donor meetings, for instance,
52
163260
2000
02:45
in which the various donors,
53
165260
2000
02:47
and many of them like to be in Nairobi --
54
167260
3000
02:50
it is true, it is one of the
55
170260
2000
02:52
unsafest cities of the world,
56
172260
2000
02:54
but they like to be there because the other cities
57
174260
2000
02:56
are even less comfortable.
58
176260
3000
02:59
And in these donor meetings, I noticed
59
179260
2000
03:01
that many of the worst projects --
60
181260
2000
03:03
which were put forward
61
183260
2000
03:05
by our clients, by the governments,
62
185260
2000
03:07
by promoters,
63
187260
2000
03:09
many of them representing
64
189260
2000
03:11
suppliers from the North --
65
191260
2000
03:13
that the worst projects
66
193260
2000
03:15
were realized first.
67
195260
2000
03:17
Let me give you an example:
68
197260
2000
03:19
a huge power project,
69
199260
2000
03:21
300 million dollars,
70
201260
3000
03:24
to be built smack into
71
204260
2000
03:26
one of the most vulnerable, and one of the most beautiful,
72
206260
3000
03:29
areas of western Kenya.
73
209260
3000
03:32
And we all noticed immediately
74
212260
2000
03:34
that this project had no economic benefits:
75
214260
3000
03:37
It had no clients, nobody would buy the electricity there,
76
217260
4000
03:41
nobody was interested in irrigation projects.
77
221260
2000
03:43
To the contrary, we knew that this project
78
223260
3000
03:46
would destroy the environment:
79
226260
2000
03:48
It would destroy riparian forests,
80
228260
2000
03:50
which were the basis for
81
230260
2000
03:52
the survival of nomadic groups,
82
232260
2000
03:54
the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.
83
234260
4000
03:58
So everybody knew this is a, not a useless project,
84
238260
3000
04:01
this is an absolute damaging, a terrible project --
85
241260
3000
04:04
not to speak about the future indebtedness of the country
86
244260
4000
04:08
for these hundreds of millions of dollars,
87
248260
2000
04:10
and the siphoning off
88
250260
3000
04:13
of the scarce resources of the economy
89
253260
2000
04:15
from much more important activities
90
255260
3000
04:18
like schools, like hospitals and so on.
91
258260
2000
04:20
And yet, we all rejected this project,
92
260260
3000
04:23
none of the donors was willing
93
263260
2000
04:25
to have their name connected with it,
94
265260
3000
04:28
and it was the first project to be implemented.
95
268260
2000
04:30
The good projects, which we as a donor community
96
270260
3000
04:33
would take under our wings,
97
273260
2000
04:35
they took years, you know,
98
275260
2000
04:37
you had too many studies,
99
277260
2000
04:39
and very often they didn't succeed.
100
279260
2000
04:41
But these bad projects,
101
281260
2000
04:43
which were absolutely damaging -- for the economy
102
283260
2000
04:45
for many generations, for the environment,
103
285260
3000
04:48
for thousands of families who had to be resettled --
104
288260
3000
04:51
they were suddenly put together
105
291260
2000
04:53
by consortia of banks,
106
293260
3000
04:56
of supplier agencies,
107
296260
2000
04:58
of insurance agencies --
108
298260
2000
05:00
like in Germany, Hermes, and so on --
109
300260
3000
05:03
and they came back very, very quickly,
110
303260
2000
05:05
driven by an unholy alliance
111
305260
2000
05:07
between the powerful elites
112
307260
4000
05:11
in the countries there
113
311260
2000
05:13
and the suppliers from the North.
114
313260
2000
05:15
Now, these suppliers
115
315260
2000
05:17
were our big companies.
116
317260
2000
05:19
They were the actors of this global market,
117
319260
3000
05:22
which I mentioned in the beginning.
118
322260
2000
05:24
They were the Siemenses of this world,
119
324260
3000
05:27
coming from France, from the UK, from Japan,
120
327260
2000
05:29
from Canada, from Germany,
121
329260
2000
05:31
and they were systematically driven
122
331260
3000
05:34
by systematic, large-scale corruption.
123
334260
3000
05:37
We are not talking about
124
337260
2000
05:39
50,000 dollars here,
125
339260
2000
05:41
or 100,000 dollars there, or one million dollars there.
126
341260
3000
05:44
No, we are talking about 10 million, 20 million dollars
127
344260
3000
05:47
on the Swiss bank accounts,
128
347260
2000
05:49
on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,
129
349260
2000
05:51
of the president's ministers,
130
351260
4000
05:55
the high officials in the para-statal sectors.
131
355260
3000
05:58
This was the reality which I saw,
132
358260
2000
06:00
and not only one project like that:
133
360260
2000
06:02
I saw, I would say,
134
362260
2000
06:04
over the years I worked in Africa,
135
364260
2000
06:06
I saw hundreds of projects like this.
136
366260
2000
06:08
And so, I became convinced
137
368260
3000
06:11
that it is this systematic corruption
138
371260
3000
06:14
which is perverting economic policy-making in these countries,
139
374260
3000
06:17
which is the main reason
140
377260
3000
06:20
for the misery, for the poverty,
141
380260
3000
06:23
for the conflicts, for the violence,
142
383260
2000
06:25
for the desperation
143
385260
2000
06:27
in many of these countries.
144
387260
2000
06:29
That we have today
145
389260
2000
06:31
more than a billion people below the absolute poverty line,
146
391260
3000
06:34
that we have more than a billion people
147
394260
3000
06:37
without proper drinking water in the world,
148
397260
2000
06:39
twice that number,
149
399260
2000
06:41
more than two billion people
150
401260
2000
06:43
without sanitation and so on,
151
403260
2000
06:45
and the consequent illnesses
152
405260
2000
06:47
of mothers and children,
153
407260
3000
06:50
still, child mortality of more than
154
410260
3000
06:53
10 million people every year,
155
413260
2000
06:55
children dying before they are five years old:
156
415260
2000
06:57
The cause of this is, to a large extent,
157
417260
3000
07:00
grand corruption.
158
420260
2000
07:02
Now, why did the World Bank
159
422260
3000
07:05
not let me do this work?
160
425260
3000
07:08
I found out afterwards,
161
428260
3000
07:11
after I left, under a big fight, the World Bank.
162
431260
3000
07:14
The reason was that the members of the World Bank
163
434260
3000
07:17
thought that foreign bribery was okay,
164
437260
3000
07:20
including Germany.
165
440260
2000
07:22
In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.
166
442260
2000
07:24
It was even tax-deductible.
167
444260
3000
07:27
No wonder that most of the most important
168
447260
2000
07:29
international operators in Germany,
169
449260
3000
07:32
but also in France and the UK
170
452260
2000
07:34
and Scandinavia, everywhere, systematically bribed.
171
454260
2000
07:36
Not all of them, but most of them.
172
456260
3000
07:39
And this is the phenomenon
173
459260
2000
07:41
which I call failing governance,
174
461260
3000
07:44
because when I then came to Germany
175
464260
2000
07:46
and started this little NGO
176
466260
2000
07:48
here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,
177
468260
4000
07:52
we were told, "You cannot stop
178
472260
3000
07:55
our German exporters from bribing,
179
475260
2000
07:57
because we will lose our contracts.
180
477260
3000
08:00
We will lose to the French,
181
480260
2000
08:02
we will lose to the Swedes, we'll lose to the Japanese."
182
482260
3000
08:05
And therefore, there was a indeed a prisoner's dilemma,
183
485260
3000
08:08
which made it very difficult
184
488260
2000
08:10
for an individual company,
185
490260
2000
08:12
an individual exporting country
186
492260
3000
08:15
to say, "We are not going to
187
495260
2000
08:17
continue this deadly, disastrous
188
497260
3000
08:20
habit of large companies to bribe."
189
500260
4000
08:24
So this is what I mean
190
504260
2000
08:26
with a failing governance structure,
191
506260
3000
08:29
because even the powerful government,
192
509260
2000
08:31
which we have in Germany, comparatively,
193
511260
3000
08:34
was not able to say,
194
514260
2000
08:36
"We will not allow our companies to bribe abroad."
195
516260
3000
08:39
They needed help,
196
519260
2000
08:41
and the large companies themselves
197
521260
2000
08:43
have this dilemma.
198
523260
2000
08:45
Many of them didn't want to bribe.
199
525260
2000
08:47
Many of the German companies, for instance,
200
527260
2000
08:49
believe that they are really
201
529260
2000
08:51
producing a high-quality product
202
531260
2000
08:53
at a good price, so they are very competitive.
203
533260
3000
08:56
They are not as good at bribing
204
536260
3000
08:59
as many of their international competitors are,
205
539260
2000
09:01
but they were not allowed
206
541260
2000
09:03
to show their strengths,
207
543260
2000
09:05
because the world was eaten up
208
545260
3000
09:08
by grand corruption.
209
548260
2000
09:10
And this is why I'm telling you this:
210
550260
4000
09:14
Civil society rose to the occasion.
211
554260
4000
09:18
We had this small NGO,
212
558260
2000
09:20
Transparency International.
213
560260
2000
09:22
They began to think of
214
562260
2000
09:24
an escape route from this prisoner's dilemma,
215
564260
3000
09:27
and we developed concepts
216
567260
4000
09:31
of collective action,
217
571260
2000
09:33
basically trying to bring various competitors
218
573260
2000
09:35
together around the table,
219
575260
2000
09:37
explaining to all of them
220
577260
2000
09:39
how much it would be in their interests
221
579260
2000
09:41
if they simultaneously would stop bribing,
222
581260
2000
09:43
and to make a long story short,
223
583260
3000
09:46
we managed to eventually
224
586260
2000
09:48
get Germany to sign
225
588260
2000
09:50
together with the other OECD countries
226
590260
2000
09:52
and a few other exporters.
227
592260
2000
09:54
In 1997, a convention,
228
594260
3000
09:57
under the auspices of the OECD,
229
597260
2000
09:59
which obliged everybody
230
599260
2000
10:01
to change their laws
231
601260
2000
10:03
and criminalize foreign bribery.
232
603260
2000
10:05
(Applause)
233
605260
4000
10:09
Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,
234
609260
2000
10:11
in doing this,
235
611260
2000
10:13
we had to sit together with the companies.
236
613260
3000
10:16
We had here in Berlin, at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee,
237
616260
3000
10:19
we had sessions with about
238
619260
2000
10:21
20 captains of industry,
239
621260
2000
10:23
and we discussed with them
240
623260
2000
10:25
what to do about international bribery.
241
625260
2000
10:27
In the first session -- we had three sessions
242
627260
2000
10:29
over the course of two years.
243
629260
2000
10:31
And President von Weizsäcker, by the way,
244
631260
3000
10:34
chaired one of the sessions, the first one,
245
634260
2000
10:36
to take the fear away
246
636260
2000
10:38
from the entrepreneurs,
247
638260
3000
10:41
who were not used to deal
248
641260
2000
10:43
with non-governmental organizations.
249
643260
2000
10:45
And in the first session, they all said,
250
645260
3000
10:48
"This is not bribery, what we are doing." This is customary there.
251
648260
3000
10:51
This is what these other cultures demand.
252
651260
3000
10:54
They even applaud it.
253
654260
2000
10:56
In fact, [unclear]
254
656260
2000
10:58
still says this today.
255
658260
2000
11:00
And so there are still a lot of people
256
660260
2000
11:02
who are not convinced that you have to stop bribing.
257
662260
3000
11:05
But in the second session,
258
665260
2000
11:07
they admitted already that they would never do this,
259
667260
2000
11:09
what they are doing in these other countries,
260
669260
3000
11:12
here in Germany, or in the U.K., and so on.
261
672260
2000
11:14
Cabinet ministers would admit this.
262
674260
3000
11:17
And in the final session, at the Aspen Institute,
263
677260
3000
11:20
we had them all sign an open letter
264
680260
3000
11:23
to the Kohl government, at the time,
265
683260
2000
11:25
requesting that they
266
685260
2000
11:27
participate in the OECD convention.
267
687260
2000
11:29
And this is, in my opinion,
268
689260
3000
11:32
an example of soft power,
269
692260
2000
11:34
because we were able to convince them
270
694260
2000
11:36
that they had to go with us.
271
696260
2000
11:38
We had a longer-term time perspective.
272
698260
3000
11:41
We had a broader,
273
701260
2000
11:43
geographically much wider,
274
703260
2000
11:45
constituency we were trying to defend.
275
705260
2000
11:47
And that's why the law has changed.
276
707260
2000
11:49
That's why Siemens is now in the trouble they are in
277
709260
3000
11:52
and that's why MIN is in the trouble they are in.
278
712260
3000
11:55
In some other countries, the OECD convention
279
715260
3000
11:58
is not yet properly enforced.
280
718260
2000
12:00
And, again, civil societies
281
720260
2000
12:02
breathing down the neck of the establishment.
282
722260
3000
12:05
In London, for instance,
283
725260
2000
12:07
where the BAE got away
284
727260
2000
12:09
with a huge corruption case,
285
729260
2000
12:11
which the Serious Fraud Office tried to prosecute,
286
731260
4000
12:15
100 million British pounds,
287
735260
2000
12:17
every year for ten years,
288
737260
2000
12:19
to one particular official of one particular friendly country,
289
739260
3000
12:22
who then bought for
290
742260
2000
12:24
44 billion pounds of military equipment.
291
744260
4000
12:28
This case, they are not prosecuting in the UK.
292
748260
2000
12:30
Why? Because they consider this
293
750260
2000
12:32
as contrary to the security interest
294
752260
3000
12:35
of the people of Great Britain.
295
755260
2000
12:37
Civil society is pushing, civil society
296
757260
2000
12:39
is trying to get a solution to this problem,
297
759260
3000
12:42
also in the U.K.,
298
762260
2000
12:44
and also in Japan, which is not properly enforcing,
299
764260
2000
12:46
and so on.
300
766260
2000
12:48
In Germany, we are pushing
301
768260
2000
12:50
the ratification of the UN convention,
302
770260
2000
12:52
which is a subsequent convention.
303
772260
2000
12:54
We are, Germany, is not ratifying.
304
774260
2000
12:56
Why? Because it would make it necessary
305
776260
3000
12:59
to criminalize the corruption
306
779260
3000
13:02
of deputies.
307
782260
2000
13:04
In Germany, we have a system where
308
784260
2000
13:06
you are not allowed to bribe a civil servant,
309
786260
3000
13:09
but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.
310
789260
3000
13:12
This is, under German law, allowed,
311
792260
3000
13:15
and the members of our parliament don't want to change this,
312
795260
2000
13:17
and this is why they can't sign
313
797260
2000
13:19
the U.N. convention against foreign bribery --
314
799260
3000
13:22
one of they very, very few countries
315
802260
2000
13:24
which is preaching honesty and good governance everywhere in the world,
316
804260
3000
13:27
but not able to ratify the convention,
317
807260
2000
13:29
which we managed to get on the books
318
809260
3000
13:32
with about 160 countries all over the world.
319
812260
3000
13:35
I see my time is ticking.
320
815260
2000
13:37
Let me just try to
321
817260
2000
13:39
draw some conclusions from what has happened.
322
819260
3000
13:42
I believe that what we managed to achieve
323
822260
4000
13:46
in fighting corruption,
324
826260
3000
13:49
one can also achieve
325
829260
2000
13:51
in other areas of failing governance.
326
831260
2000
13:53
By now, the United Nations
327
833260
2000
13:55
is totally on our side.
328
835260
2000
13:57
The World Bank has turned from Saulus to Paulus; under Wolfensohn,
329
837260
4000
14:01
they became, I would say, the strongest
330
841260
3000
14:04
anti-corruption agency in the world.
331
844260
2000
14:06
Most of the large companies
332
846260
2000
14:08
are now totally convinced
333
848260
2000
14:10
that they have to put in place
334
850260
2000
14:12
very strong policies
335
852260
2000
14:14
against bribery and so on.
336
854260
2000
14:16
And this is possible because civil society
337
856260
3000
14:19
joined the companies
338
859260
2000
14:21
and joined the government
339
861260
2000
14:23
in the analysis of the problem,
340
863260
2000
14:25
in the development of remedies,
341
865260
2000
14:27
in the implementation of reforms,
342
867260
3000
14:30
and then later, in the monitoring of reforms.
343
870260
3000
14:33
Of course, if civil society organizations
344
873260
3000
14:36
want to play that role,
345
876260
2000
14:38
they have to grow into this responsibility.
346
878260
4000
14:42
Not all civil society organizations are good.
347
882260
3000
14:45
The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.
348
885260
3000
14:48
So, we must be aware
349
888260
2000
14:50
that civil society
350
890260
2000
14:52
has to shape up itself.
351
892260
2000
14:54
They have to have a much more
352
894260
2000
14:56
transparent financial governance.
353
896260
2000
14:58
They have to have a much more participatory governance
354
898260
3000
15:01
in many civil society organizations.
355
901260
3000
15:04
We also need much more competence of civil society leaders.
356
904260
3000
15:07
This is why we have set up the governance school
357
907260
3000
15:10
and the Center for Civil Society here in Berlin,
358
910260
2000
15:12
because we believe most of our educational
359
912260
3000
15:15
and research institutions in Germany
360
915260
2000
15:17
and continental Europe in general,
361
917260
2000
15:19
do not focus enough, yet,
362
919260
2000
15:21
on empowering civil society
363
921260
2000
15:23
and training the leadership of civil society.
364
923260
3000
15:26
But what I'm saying from my very practical experience:
365
926260
3000
15:29
If civil society does it right
366
929260
3000
15:32
and joins the other actors --
367
932260
3000
15:35
in particular, governments,
368
935260
2000
15:37
governments and their international institutions,
369
937260
3000
15:40
but also large international actors,
370
940260
3000
15:43
in particular those which have committed themselves
371
943260
2000
15:45
to corporate social responsibility --
372
945260
2000
15:47
then in this magical triangle
373
947260
3000
15:50
between civil society,
374
950260
2000
15:52
government and private sector,
375
952260
2000
15:54
there is a tremendous chance
376
954260
2000
15:56
for all of us to create a better world.
377
956260
4000
16:00
Thank you.
378
960260
2000
16:02
(Applause)
379
962260
2000
About this website

This site will introduce you to YouTube videos that are useful for learning English. You will see English lessons taught by top-notch teachers from around the world. Double-click on the English subtitles displayed on each video page to play the video from there. The subtitles scroll in sync with the video playback. If you have any comments or requests, please contact us using this contact form.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7