Peter Eigen: How to expose the corrupt

翻译人员: Zhu Jie 校对人员: Tony Yet

I am going to speak about corruption,

我将要谈论腐败的问题，

but I would like to juxtapose

但是我想先将两件不同的事情

two different things.

放在一起讲讲。

One is the large global economy,

其一是宏大的全球经济，

the large globalized economy,

全球化经济，

and the other one is the small, and very limited,

而另外一个则是渺小的而且非常受限的

capacity of our traditional governments

旧式政府

and their international institutions

以及其国际组织

to govern, to shape, this economy.

对经济的监控以及改造能力。

Because there is this asymmetry,

这种不对称性的存在，

which creates, basically,

基本上导致了

failing governance.

无能失策的政府。

Failing governance in many areas:

政府的无能表现在很多方面，

in the area of corruption and the area of destruction of the environment,

例如腐败以及环境的破坏，

in the area of exploitation of women and children,

对妇女和儿童的剥削，

in the area of climate change,

以及气候变化，等等。

in all the areas in which we really need

在所有的这些领域中，我们真的很需要

a capacity to reintroduce

端正政治

the primacy of politics

在经济活动中的

into the economy,

首要地位

which is operating in a worldwide arena.

达成一个世界级的合作。

And I think corruption,

而我认为腐败

and the fight against corruption,

和针对腐败的反击

and the impact of corruption,

以及腐败的影响

is probably one of the most interesting ways

也许是最有趣的方式

to illustrate what I mean

来阐明我

with this failure of governance.

对政府无能失策的看法。

Let me talk about my own experience.

我来谈谈我的经历吧。

I used to work as the director

我曾经担任

of the World Bank office in Nairobi

世界银行在内罗毕办事处的总监

for East Africa.

服务区域是东非

At that time, I noticed

那时候我注意到

that corruption, that grand corruption,

腐败，那种明目张胆的腐败，

that systematic corruption,

系统性的腐败

was undermining everything we were trying to do.

在不断侵蚀我们的努力成果。

And therefore, I began

所以，我开始

to not only try to protect

竭力维护

the work of the World Bank,

世界银行的工作成果，

our own projects, our own programs

我们的项目，我们的各项企划

against corruption,

防止它们受到腐败的侵害

but in general, I thought, "We need a system

但总体而言，我认为，我们需要一种制度

to protect the people

去保卫

in this part of the world

该地区的人民

from the ravages of corruption."

使他们免受腐败的侵害。

And as soon as I started this work,

然而，一当我展开工作时，

I received a memorandum from the World Bank,

我就收到了世界银行法律部门

from the legal department first,

的一封便函

in which they said, "You are not allowed to do this.

函内写道，你这样做是不被允许的。

You are meddling in the internal affairs of our partner countries.

你这是在干预我们合作国家的内政。

This is forbidden by the charter of the World Bank,

这是世界银行纲领所禁止的。

so I want you to stop your doings."

所以，我们要求你停止你的行动。

In the meantime, I was chairing

在那段时期，我正在主持

donor meetings, for instance,

捐赠者会议

in which the various donors,

各类捐赠者都出席了会议

and many of them like to be in Nairobi --

他们中的很多人喜欢待在内罗毕--

it is true, it is one of the

的确，它是世界上

unsafest cities of the world,

最不安全的城市之一，

but they like to be there because the other cities

但是他们喜欢待在这里，因为其他城市

are even less comfortable.

让人感觉更不舒服。

And in these donor meetings, I noticed

在这些捐赠者回忆中，我注意到，

that many of the worst projects --

很多最差的项目

which were put forward

总是被

by our clients, by the governments,

我们的顾客、政府、

by promoters,

赞助人

many of them representing

他们其中很多人代表

suppliers from the North --

北方的供应商，

that the worst projects

最先地

were realized first.

启动进行。

Let me give you an example:

让我来给你们举一个例子。

a huge power project,

一个巨大的能源项目，

300 million dollars,

价值30亿，

to be built smack into

将在

one of the most vulnerable, and one of the most beautiful,

世界上最脆弱、又最美丽的地域之一，

areas of western Kenya.

肯尼亚西部开始启动。

And we all noticed immediately

我们都立刻发现，

that this project had no economic benefits:

这个项目没有经济利益。

It had no clients, nobody would buy the electricity there,

他没有消费者。没人会从那里购买电力。

nobody was interested in irrigation projects.

没人对灌溉项目感兴趣。

To the contrary, we knew that this project

相反地，我们知道这项工程

would destroy the environment:

会摧毁环境，

It would destroy riparian forests,

会毁掉河岸森林，

which were the basis for

而这些正是

the survival of nomadic groups,

那个区域的游牧部族，

the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.

如Samburu和Tokana部族所赖以生存的。

So everybody knew this is a, not a useless project,

所以，每个人都知道这不仅是个没用的项目，

this is an absolute damaging, a terrible project --

更是个绝对毁灭性的、可怕的项目。

not to speak about the future indebtedness of the country

且不说这个国家将来会因此负债累累，

for these hundreds of millions of dollars,

亏欠亿万美元，

and the siphoning off

它还会贪婪地吞噬

of the scarce resources of the economy

本来可以花在

from much more important activities

如学校、医院等更重要的活动上的

like schools, like hospitals and so on.

稀少有限的资源。

And yet, we all rejected this project,

我们都驳回了这个项目。

none of the donors was willing

没有一个捐献者愿意

to have their name connected with it,

让自己的名字和这个项目扯上任何关系。

and it was the first project to be implemented.

但是这个项目是最先开始执行的。

The good projects, which we as a donor community

好的项目，那些我们捐献者群体

would take under our wings,

愿意鼎力相助的项目，

they took years, you know,

却被拖了一年又一年

you had too many studies,

你得做很多研究，

and very often they didn't succeed.

而且通常它们都不会成功。

But these bad projects,

但是这些差劲的项目却总一帆风顺，

which were absolutely damaging -- for the economy

尽管它们我们的经济有着绝对损害

for many generations, for the environment,

会影响到几代人的环境，

for thousands of families who had to be resettled --

会让成千上万的家庭流离失所。

they were suddenly put together

这些项目很突然地成型

by consortia of banks,

帮助它们的是银行的联合体、

of supplier agencies,

支持供应商的社团

of insurance agencies --

和保险公司。

like in Germany, Hermes, and so on --

像在德国，爱马仕公司等等就是背后的推手。

and they came back very, very quickly,

它们很快很快地卷土重来

driven by an unholy alliance

背后的驱动力是

between the powerful elites

国家里

in the countries there

强大精英间的不正义的同盟

and the suppliers from the North.

以及北方的供应商。

Now, these suppliers

现在，这些供应商

were our big companies.

是我们的大公司。

They were the actors of this global market,

他们是这全球市场的活跃角色，

which I mentioned in the beginning.

正如我在演讲之初所指出的一样。

They were the Siemenses of this world,

它们是世界上那些像西门子一样强大的公司，

coming from France, from the UK, from Japan,

来自法国、英国、日本、

from Canada, from Germany,

加拿大、德国，

and they were systematically driven

它们被有体系的、大型的腐败

by systematic, large-scale corruption.

有规则地驱动前进。

We are not talking about

我们不是在讨论

50,000 dollars here,

五万美元的腐败，

or 100,000 dollars there, or one million dollars there.

也不是十万，或一百万。

No, we are talking about 10 million, 20 million dollars

我们在讨论的，是一千万、两千万美元，

on the Swiss bank accounts,

它们以贿款的形势出现在瑞士的账号上、

on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,

列支敦士登的银行账户里，

of the president's ministers,

那些账户属于总统的部长、

the high officials in the para-statal sectors.

半国营部门的高级官员。

This was the reality which I saw,

这就是我看到的现实，

and not only one project like that:

而且这样的情况不是个例

I saw, I would say,

我敢说我在

over the years I worked in Africa,

我在非洲工作的这些年里

I saw hundreds of projects like this.

看见过成百上千个这样的项目。

And so, I became convinced

因此，我相信

that it is this systematic corruption

这种系统性的腐败

which is perverting economic policy-making in these countries,

正在使这些国家的经济政策走向歧途，

which is the main reason

也正是这种腐败将这些国家推进

for the misery, for the poverty,

苦难、贫穷、

for the conflicts, for the violence,

纷争、暴力、

for the desperation

绝望

in many of these countries.

的深渊。

That we have today

现今，我们有

more than a billion people below the absolute poverty line,

超过十亿的人处在绝对贫困线以下

that we have more than a billion people

我们有超过十亿人

without proper drinking water in the world,

没有合理处理过的清水可以饮用

twice that number,

更有两倍那么多的人，

more than two billion people

超过二十亿的人

without sanitation and so on,

没有卫生设备等等，

and the consequent illnesses

因此女人和孩子

of mothers and children,

常受到疾病侵袭

still, child mortality of more than

直至今日，每年还有

10 million people every year,

超过千万的儿童

children dying before they are five years old:

在五岁前死亡。

The cause of this is, to a large extent,

追根溯源，这些问题在很大程度上

grand corruption.

是因为规模庞大的腐败。

Now, why did the World Bank

那么，为什么世界银行

not let me do this work?

不让我对此作出反应呢？

I found out afterwards,

在我于一场大争执后离开世界银行以后

after I left, under a big fight, the World Bank.

我才搞明白。

The reason was that the members of the World Bank

原因是世界银行的成员国

thought that foreign bribery was okay,

觉得对外贿赂是没问题的，

including Germany.

比如德国就这么认为。

In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.

在德国，对外行贿是被允许的。

It was even tax-deductible.

它甚至是可免税的。

No wonder that most of the most important

难怪绝大多数德国、

international operators in Germany,

法国、英国、斯堪地那维亚，

but also in France and the UK

所有地方大多数最重要的国际公司

and Scandinavia, everywhere, systematically bribed.

都有系统地进行着贿赂

Not all of them, but most of them.

我不是说所有的，但是绝大多数的公司对此都不能问心无愧。

And this is the phenomenon

我把这样一个现象

which I call failing governance,

称作政府失效。

because when I then came to Germany

当我来到德国

and started this little NGO

建成了这个小小的非政府组织

here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,

在柏林，在Borsig公馆，

we were told, "You cannot stop

我们被告知，我们不能阻止

our German exporters from bribing,

德国出口商行贿，

because we will lose our contracts.

因为我们德国会因此失去合约。

We will lose to the French,

我们会输给法国人、

we will lose to the Swedes, we'll lose to the Japanese."

瑞士人、日本人，

And therefore, there was a indeed a prisoner's dilemma,

因此，这就形成了一个“囚徒困境”

which made it very difficult

这样一来，

for an individual company,

单独的公司，

an individual exporting country

或者出口国

to say, "We are not going to

就很难说，我们将不再

continue this deadly, disastrous

继续这种灾难性的

habit of large companies to bribe."

行贿习惯了。

So this is what I mean

这就是我所知的

with a failing governance structure,

失效的政府结构

because even the powerful government,

因为即使是强大的政府，

which we have in Germany, comparatively,

如相对强大的德国政府，

was not able to say,

也不能够说，

"We will not allow our companies to bribe abroad."

我们将不允许我们的公司在海外行贿。

They needed help,

它们需要帮助

and the large companies themselves

而且这些大公司本身

have this dilemma.

也身处这种两难的境地。

Many of them didn't want to bribe.

其中很多公司并不想行贿。

Many of the German companies, for instance,

比如，很多德国公司

believe that they are really

相信它们确实是

producing a high-quality product

能够制造出物美价廉、

at a good price, so they are very competitive.

有竞争力的产品。

They are not as good at bribing

它们不如其他国际竞争者

as many of their international competitors are,

善于行贿之术，

but they were not allowed

但是它们没有机会

to show their strengths,

展现自己的长处

because the world was eaten up

因为这个世界

by grand corruption.

正在被大规模的腐败侵蚀。

And this is why I'm telling you this:

我想说的是，随着政府的失效，

Civil society rose to the occasion.

公民社会组织就应站出来。

We had this small NGO,

我们有一个小型的非政府组织，

Transparency International.

“透明国际”

They began to think of

我们开始设想

an escape route from this prisoner's dilemma,

一条从“囚徒困境”里的逃生之路，

and we developed concepts

我们也开始发扬

of collective action,

集体行动的概念，

basically trying to bring various competitors

即尝试将不同的竞争者

together around the table,

集合到谈判桌前，

explaining to all of them

向他们解释

how much it would be in their interests

如果他们同时停止行贿

if they simultaneously would stop bribing,

是对他们多么有好处。

and to make a long story short,

长话短说，

we managed to eventually

我们最终得以

get Germany to sign

使德国和

together with the other OECD countries

其他经济合作发展组织的成员国

and a few other exporters.

以及一些其他的出口国

In 1997, a convention,

在1997年的一场会议上

under the auspices of the OECD,

在经济合作发展组织的赞助支持下，

which obliged everybody

使所有参与者

to change their laws

改变法律

and criminalize foreign bribery.

将对外行贿犯罪化。

(Applause)

（观众掌声）

Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,

谢谢大家，我觉得挺有趣的，

in doing this,

做这件事的时候，

we had to sit together with the companies.

我们必须跟这些公司坐在一起。

We had here in Berlin, at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee,

我们在柏林的山杨协会

we had sessions with about

和20个企业大首脑

20 captains of industry,

开了几次会，

and we discussed with them

我们和他们讨论了

what to do about international bribery.

如何应对国际性会的问题。

In the first session -- we had three sessions

我们一共有三个跨时两年的会议

over the course of two years.

在第一个会议里

And President von Weizsäcker, by the way,

一个来自冯·魏茨泽克的主席

chaired one of the sessions, the first one,

主持了第一个会议

to take the fear away

以消除企业家们

from the entrepreneurs,

的恐惧

who were not used to deal

因为他们不习惯与

with non-governmental organizations.

非政府组织打交道。

And in the first session, they all said,

在第一个会议里，他们都说，

"This is not bribery, what we are doing." This is customary there.

他们做的不是行贿。那是个习俗。

This is what these other cultures demand.

那是其他的文化所要求的。

They even applaud it.

他们甚至赞许这种行为。

In fact, [unclear]

事实上，有人

still says this today.

到如今还坚持这样的观点。

And so there are still a lot of people

并且还有很多人

who are not convinced that you have to stop bribing.

不相信别人已经停止了行贿。

But in the second session,

但是在第二次会议里，

they admitted already that they would never do this,

他们已经承认他们再也不会这样做了，

what they are doing in these other countries,

不会再做这些发生在其他国家，

here in Germany, or in the U.K., and so on.

如德国、英国等等的事了。

Cabinet ministers would admit this.

内阁大臣们承认了这一点。

And in the final session, at the Aspen Institute,

在最后一个会议里，在山杨协会，

we had them all sign an open letter

我们让他们所有人都签署了一封

to the Kohl government, at the time,

给那时的科勒政府的公开信，

requesting that they

要求参与到

participate in the OECD convention.

经济合作与发展组织协定里来。

And this is, in my opinion,

这在我心中

an example of soft power,

是一种软实力的体现，

because we were able to convince them

因为我们能够让他们确信

that they had to go with us.

他们必须跟我们统一战线。

We had a longer-term time perspective.

我们有更长远的目光。

We had a broader,

我们要维护

geographically much wider,

地域上更宽广的

constituency we were trying to defend.

群体利益。

And that's why the law has changed.

这就是为什么法律被改变了。

That's why Siemens is now in the trouble they are in

这就是为什么西门子现在遇到了麻烦。

and that's why MIN is in the trouble they are in.

这就是为什么MIN现在碰到了棘手的事。

In some other countries, the OECD convention

在一些其他国家里，经济合作与发展组织协定

is not yet properly enforced.

还没有被真正地有力实施。

And, again, civil societies

我重申，公民社会

breathing down the neck of the establishment.

紧盯着当局的一举一动。

In London, for instance,

比如在伦敦，

where the BAE got away

BAE从一桩

with a huge corruption case,

巨大的腐败事件中侥幸逃脱干系

which the Serious Fraud Office tried to prosecute,

苏瑞惩治诈骗办公室曾尝试惩处他们。

100 million British pounds,

每年十亿英镑的贿款，

every year for ten years,

十年以来，

to one particular official of one particular friendly country,

被送给了某个友好国家的某个官员

who then bought for

这个官因此

44 billion pounds of military equipment.

买了他们440亿英镑的军备。

This case, they are not prosecuting in the UK.

在这个案例里，他们没有在英国得到惩处。

Why? Because they consider this

为什么呢？因为当局认为

as contrary to the security interest

惩处与英国人民的

of the people of Great Britain.

安全利益相冲突。

Civil society is pushing, civil society

公民社会在推动，

is trying to get a solution to this problem,

在尝试给问题找一个解决方案

also in the U.K.,

在英国

and also in Japan, which is not properly enforcing,

也在日本，那里的对外行贿也没有被好好控制，

and so on.

等等。

In Germany, we are pushing

在德国，我们在推动

the ratification of the UN convention,

签署联合国协定的进程。

which is a subsequent convention.

这是一个后续的协定。

We are, Germany, is not ratifying.

德国没有签认。

Why? Because it would make it necessary

为什么呢？因为签署了它就相当于

to criminalize the corruption

使惩罚代理人受贿

of deputies.

成了必须的事。

In Germany, we have a system where

在德国的系统里，

you are not allowed to bribe a civil servant,

你不能够贿赂一位公务员，

but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.

但是可以贿赂一位代理人。

This is, under German law, allowed,

这是被德国法律所允许的。

and the members of our parliament don't want to change this,

议会成员不想改动这一点，

and this is why they can't sign

这就是为什么德国不能签署

the U.N. convention against foreign bribery --

联合国反对外行贿协定的原因。

one of they very, very few countries

这是世界上极少数的

which is preaching honesty and good governance everywhere in the world,

讲究道德、好管理的的国度之一，

but not able to ratify the convention,

但是它不能签署这份

which we managed to get on the books

通过我们努力，

with about 160 countries all over the world.

有大约160个国家签署了的协定。

I see my time is ticking.

我看见我的时间不多了。

Let me just try to

让我就试着

draw some conclusions from what has happened.

总结一下发生的事。

I believe that what we managed to achieve

我相信我们在

in fighting corruption,

与腐败的斗争中取得的，

one can also achieve

也可以在

in other areas of failing governance.

政府失效的其他领域中取得。

By now, the United Nations

现在，联合国

is totally on our side.

已经完全和我们站在了一边。

The World Bank has turned from Saulus to Paulus; under Wolfensohn,

世界银行已在Wolfensohn领导下从Saulus转向Paulus，

they became, I would say, the strongest

也成为了，我敢说，

anti-corruption agency in the world.

世界上最强的反腐败组织。

Most of the large companies

绝大多数的大公司

are now totally convinced

现在已经完全确信

that they have to put in place

他们需要

very strong policies

执行很强的政策

against bribery and so on.

以防腐败等等。

And this is possible because civil society

这是可能做到的，因为公民社会

joined the companies

加入了公司

and joined the government

也加入了政府

in the analysis of the problem,

一起分析问题

in the development of remedies,

推出纠正方法

in the implementation of reforms,

执行改革

and then later, in the monitoring of reforms.

并在之后，监督改革。

Of course, if civil society organizations

当然，如果公民社会

want to play that role,

想要参与进来，

they have to grow into this responsibility.

就得有足够的责任感。

Not all civil society organizations are good.

不是所有的民权社会组织都是造福人类的。

The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.

3K党也是个非政府组织呢。

So, we must be aware

所以，我们必须意识到

that civil society

民权社会

has to shape up itself.

要不断改良自身。

They have to have a much more

他们有一个

transparent financial governance.

透明度高得多的财政管理。

They have to have a much more participatory governance

他们有一个参与度高得多的管理。

in many civil society organizations.

在很多民权社会组织里都是如此。

We also need much more competence of civil society leaders.

我们也需要更胜任的民权社会领袖。

This is why we have set up the governance school

这就是为什么我们在柏林建立了管理学校

and the Center for Civil Society here in Berlin,

以及民权中心。

because we believe most of our educational

因为我们相信大多数教育以及

and research institutions in Germany

研究协会，在德国

and continental Europe in general,

和欧洲大陆，从大体上来说，

do not focus enough, yet,

都对发展和培育公民社会

on empowering civil society

的力量

and training the leadership of civil society.

还不够集中重视。

But what I'm saying from my very practical experience:

但是从我非常实际的经历来看，

If civil society does it right

如果公民社会做得好，

and joins the other actors --

并与其他成员齐心协力，

in particular, governments,

尤其是与政府，

governments and their international institutions,

政府和他们的国际机构，

but also large international actors,

那些活跃在国际舞台上的成员，

in particular those which have committed themselves

尤其是那些致力于

to corporate social responsibility --

共同社会责任感的，

then in this magical triangle

那么，在这个

between civil society,

公民社会、

government and private sector,

政府和私营部门形成的神奇三角里，

there is a tremendous chance

就会有巨大的可能性，

for all of us to create a better world.

使我们一起创造出一个更美好的世界。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（观众掌声）