Peter Eigen: How to expose the corrupt

69,714 views ใƒป 2010-04-01

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืžืชืจื’ื: Shlomo Adam ืžื‘ืงืจ: Amit Lampit
00:15
I am going to speak about corruption,
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ืื ื™ ืขื•ืžื“ ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
00:17
but I would like to juxtapose
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ืืš ื‘ืจืฆื•ื ื™ ืœื”ืกืžื™ืš ื–ื” ืœื–ื”
00:20
two different things.
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ืฉื ื™ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื.
00:22
One is the large global economy,
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ื”ืื—ื“ ื”ื•ื ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื” ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ืช ื”ืจื—ื‘ื”,
00:27
the large globalized economy,
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ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื” ื”ื’ืœื•ื‘ืœื™ืช ื”ืจื—ื‘ื”,
00:30
and the other one is the small, and very limited,
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ื•ื”ืฉื ื™, ืงื˜ืŸ ื•ืžื•ื’ื‘ืœ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
00:33
capacity of our traditional governments
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ื”ื•ื ื›ื•ื—ืŸ ืฉืœ ื”ืžืžืฉืœื•ืช ื”ืžืกื•ืจืชื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•
00:37
and their international institutions
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ื•ืžื•ืกื“ื•ืชื™ื”ืŸ ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื
00:39
to govern, to shape, this economy.
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ืœื ื”ืœ, ืœืขืฆื‘ ื›ืœื›ืœื” ื–ื•.
00:43
Because there is this asymmetry,
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ื›ื™ ื™ืฉื ื• ื—ื•ืกืจ ืกื™ืžื˜ืจื™ื”
00:48
which creates, basically,
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ืฉื‘ืขืฆื ืžื‘ื™ื
00:51
failing governance.
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ืœื›ืฉืœื•ืŸ ื”ืคื™ืงื•ื—.
00:53
Failing governance in many areas:
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ื”ืคื™ืงื•ื— ื ื›ืฉืœ ื‘ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื ืจื‘ื™ื
00:55
in the area of corruption and the area of destruction of the environment,
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ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ื•ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ื”ืจืก ื”ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื”,
00:59
in the area of exploitation of women and children,
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ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ื ื™ืฆื•ืœ ื ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ืœื“ื™ื,
01:02
in the area of climate change,
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ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ื”ืืงืœื™ื.
01:06
in all the areas in which we really need
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ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื ื‘ื”ื ื‘ืืžืช ื ื—ื•ืฆื” ืœื ื•
01:09
a capacity to reintroduce
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ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ืœื”ื—ื–ื™ืจ ืขืœ ื›ื ื”
01:14
the primacy of politics
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ืืช ืขืœื™ื•ื ื•ืชื” ืฉืœ ื”ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ืงื”
01:17
into the economy,
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ื‘ื›ืœื›ืœื”,
01:19
which is operating in a worldwide arena.
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ื”ืคื•ืขืœืช ื‘ื–ื™ืจื” ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ืช.
01:24
And I think corruption,
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ื•ืœื“ืขืชื™ ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
01:26
and the fight against corruption,
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ื•ื”ืžืœื—ืžื” ื‘ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
01:28
and the impact of corruption,
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ื•ื”ืฉืคืขืช ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
01:30
is probably one of the most interesting ways
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ื”ื™ื ืื—ืช ื”ื“ืจื›ื™ื ื”ืžืขื ื™ื™ื ื•ืช ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
01:32
to illustrate what I mean
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ืœื”ืžื—ื™ืฉ ืืช ื›ื•ื•ื ืชื™
01:34
with this failure of governance.
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ื‘ื›ืฉืœื•ืŸ ืคื™ืงื•ื— ื–ื”.
01:37
Let me talk about my own experience.
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ื”ื‘ื” ื•ืืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืขืœ ื ืกื™ื•ื ื™ ื”ืื™ืฉื™.
01:41
I used to work as the director
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ืขื‘ื“ืชื™ ืคืขื ื›ืžื ื”ืœ
01:44
of the World Bank office in Nairobi
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ืกื ื™ืฃ ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ ื‘ื ื™ื™ืจื•ื‘ื™
01:47
for East Africa.
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ื”ืื—ืจืื™ ืขืœ ืžื–ืจื— ืืคืจื™ืงื”
01:49
At that time, I noticed
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ื•ืื– ืฉืžืชื™ ืœื‘
01:51
that corruption, that grand corruption,
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ืฉื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช, ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ื”ืขืฆื•ืžื”,
01:54
that systematic corruption,
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ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ื”ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ืช,
01:56
was undermining everything we were trying to do.
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ื—ื•ืชืจืช ืชื—ืช ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉื ื™ืกื™ื ื• ืœืขืฉื•ืช.
02:00
And therefore, I began
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™
02:02
to not only try to protect
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ืœื ืจืง ืœื ืกื•ืช ืœื”ื’ืŸ
02:05
the work of the World Bank,
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ืขืœ ืขื‘ื•ื“ืช ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™,
02:07
our own projects, our own programs
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ืขืœ ื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ืฉืœื ื•, ื”ืชื›ื ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•
02:09
against corruption,
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ื ื’ื“ ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
02:11
but in general, I thought, "We need a system
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ืืœื ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืฉื‘ื›ืœืœ ื ื—ื•ืฆื” ืœื ื• ืฉื™ื˜ื”
02:14
to protect the people
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ืœื”ื’ืŸ ืขืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื
02:16
in this part of the world
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ื‘ื—ืœืง ื–ื” ืฉืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื
02:18
from the ravages of corruption."
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ืžืคื ื™ ื”ืจืกื ื•ืชื” ืฉืœ ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช.
02:21
And as soon as I started this work,
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ื•ืžื™ื“ ื›ืฉื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ื‘ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื–ื•,
02:24
I received a memorandum from the World Bank,
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ืงื™ื‘ืœืชื™ ืžื™ื–ื›ืจ ืžื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™,
02:27
from the legal department first,
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ืจืืฉื™ืช ื›ืœ ืžื”ืžื—ืœืงื” ื”ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ืช,
02:29
in which they said, "You are not allowed to do this.
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ื•ื‘ื• ื ืืžืจ: ืื™ื ืš ืจืฉืื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช.
02:31
You are meddling in the internal affairs of our partner countries.
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ืืชื” ืžืชืขืกืง ื‘ืขื ื™ื™ื ื™ ื”ืคื ื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ืฉื•ืชืคื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•.
02:35
This is forbidden by the charter of the World Bank,
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ื–ื” ืืกื•ืจ, ื‘ื”ืชืื ืœื›ืชื‘ ื”ื–ื›ื•ื™ื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™.
02:38
so I want you to stop your doings."
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ืœื›ืŸ ืื ื• ื“ื•ืจืฉื™ื ืฉืชื—ื“ืœ ืžืžืขืฉื™ืš.
02:41
In the meantime, I was chairing
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ื‘ืื•ืชื” ืขืช ื™ืฉื‘ืชื™ ื‘ืจืืฉ
02:43
donor meetings, for instance,
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ืžืคื’ืฉื™ ืชื•ืจืžื™ื, ืœืžืฉืœ,
02:45
in which the various donors,
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ืฉื‘ื”ื ื”ืชื•ืจืžื™ื ื”ืฉื•ื ื™ื,
02:47
and many of them like to be in Nairobi --
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ื•ืจื‘ื™ื ืžื”ื ืื•ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืฉื”ื•ืช ื‘ื ื™ื™ืจื•ื‘ื™ -
02:50
it is true, it is one of the
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ื‘ืืžืช. ื–ื• ืื—ืช
02:52
unsafest cities of the world,
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ื”ืขืจื™ื ื”ื›ื™ ืœื ื‘ื˜ื•ื—ื•ืช ื‘ืขื•ืœื,
02:54
but they like to be there because the other cities
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ืืš ื”ื ืื•ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื ื›ื™ ื™ืชืจ ื”ืขืจื™ื
02:56
are even less comfortable.
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ืขื•ื“ ืคื—ื•ืช ื ื•ื—ื•ืช.
02:59
And in these donor meetings, I noticed
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ื•ื‘ืžืคื’ืฉื™ ืชื•ืจืžื™ื ืืœื” ืฉืžืชื™ ืœื‘
03:01
that many of the worst projects --
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ืฉืจื‘ื™ื ืžื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื”ื’ืจื•ืขื™ื ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
03:03
which were put forward
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ืฉื”ื•ืฆืขื•
03:05
by our clients, by the governments,
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ืข"ื™ ืœืงื•ื—ื•ืชื™ื ื•, ืข"ื™ ื”ืžืžืฉืœื•ืช,
03:07
by promoters,
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ืข"ื™ ื™ื–ืžื™ื,
03:09
many of them representing
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ืจื‘ื™ื ืžื”ื ืžื™ื™ืฆื’ื™ื
03:11
suppliers from the North --
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ืกืคืงื™ื ืžืŸ ื”ืฆืคื•ืŸ,
03:13
that the worst projects
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ืฉื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื”ื’ืจื•ืขื™ื ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
03:15
were realized first.
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ื”ื•ื’ืฉืžื• ืจืืฉื•ื ื™ื.
03:17
Let me give you an example:
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ืืชืŸ ืœื›ื ื“ื•ื’ืžื”.
03:19
a huge power project,
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ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ืชื—ื ืช ื›ื•ื— ืขื ืงื™,
03:21
300 million dollars,
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300 ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ ื“ื•ืœืจ,
03:24
to be built smack into
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ืฉืžื™ื•ืขื“ ืœื”ื™ืชืงืข ื”ื™ื™ืฉืจ ื‘ืœื‘
03:26
one of the most vulnerable, and one of the most beautiful,
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ืื—ื“ ื”ืื–ื•ืจื™ื ื”ื›ื™ ืคื’ื™ืขื™ื ื•ื”ื›ื™ ื™ืคื™ื
03:29
areas of western Kenya.
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ืฉืœ ืžืขืจื‘ ืงื ื™ื”.
03:32
And we all noticed immediately
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ื›ื•ืœื ื• ืจืื™ื ื• ืžื™ื“
03:34
that this project had no economic benefits:
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ืฉื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ื”ื–ื” ืœื ื™ื‘ื™ื ืฉื•ื ืจื•ื•ื—.
03:37
It had no clients, nobody would buy the electricity there,
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ืœื ื”ื™ื• ืœื• ืœืงื•ื—ื•ืช. ืื™ืฉ ืœื ืจืฆื” ืœืงื ื•ืช ืืช ื”ื—ืฉืžืœ ืฉื.
03:41
nobody was interested in irrigation projects.
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ืœืื™ืฉ ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ืฉืงื™ื™ื”.
03:43
To the contrary, we knew that this project
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ืœื”ื™ืคืš. ื”ื ื™ื“ืขื• ืฉื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ื”ื–ื”
03:46
would destroy the environment:
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ื™ื”ืจื•ืก ืืช ื”ืกื‘ื™ื‘ื”,
03:48
It would destroy riparian forests,
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ื™ืฉืžื™ื“ ืืช ื™ืขืจื•ืช ื”ื—ื•ืคื™ื,
03:50
which were the basis for
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ืฉื”ื™ื•ื• ืืช ื™ืกื•ื“
03:52
the survival of nomadic groups,
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ื”ื™ืฉืจื“ื•ืชืŸ ืฉืœ ืฉื‘ื˜ื™ ื ื•ื•ื“ื™ื,
03:54
the Samburu and the Turkana in this area.
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ื”'ืกืžื‘ื•ืจื•' ื•ื”'ื˜ื•ืงืื ื”', ื‘ืื•ืชื• ืื–ื•ืจ.
03:58
So everybody knew this is a, not a useless project,
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ื›ืš ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื™ื“ืขื• ืฉื–ื” ืœื ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ื—ืกืจ ื˜ืขื,
04:01
this is an absolute damaging, a terrible project --
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ืืœื ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ืื™ื•ื ื•ื ื•ืจื, ืžื–ื™ืง ื‘ื”ื—ืœื˜,
04:04
not to speak about the future indebtedness of the country
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ืฉืœื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื—ื•ื‘ื” ื”ืขืชื™ื“ื™ ืฉืœ ืื•ืชื” ืืจืฅ
04:08
for these hundreds of millions of dollars,
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ื‘ืกืš ืžืื•ืช ืžืœื™ื•ื ื™ ื“ื•ืœืจื™ื,
04:10
and the siphoning off
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ื•ืขืœ ื”ืกื˜ืช ื›ืœ
04:13
of the scarce resources of the economy
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ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื” ื”ื–ืขื•ืžื™ื ืฉืœ ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื”
04:15
from much more important activities
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ืžืคืขื™ืœื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื•ืช
04:18
like schools, like hospitals and so on.
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ื›ืžื• ื‘ืชื™ ืกืคืจ, ื‘ืชื™ ื—ื•ืœื™ื ื•ื›ื“ื•ืžื”.
04:20
And yet, we all rejected this project,
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ื•ืœืžืจื•ืช ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื• ื“ื—ื™ื ื• ืืช ื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ื”ื–ื”
04:23
none of the donors was willing
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ื•ืื™ืฉ ืžืŸ ื”ืชื•ืจืžื™ื ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ื›ืŸ
04:25
to have their name connected with it,
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ืฉืฉืžื• ื™ืงื•ืฉืจ ืขื ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื–ื”,
04:28
and it was the first project to be implemented.
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ ืฉื”ื•ืงื.
04:30
The good projects, which we as a donor community
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ื”ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื, ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื›ืงื”ื™ืœืช ื”ืชื•ืจืžื™ื
04:33
would take under our wings,
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ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ื ื›ื•ื ื™ื ืœืคืจื•ืฉ ืขืœื™ื”ื ืืช ื›ื ืคื™ื ื•,
04:35
they took years, you know,
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ืืœื” ืืจื›ื• ืฉื ื™ื, ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื,
04:37
you had too many studies,
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ื ืขืฉื• ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื“ื™ ืžื—ืงืจื™ื,
04:39
and very often they didn't succeed.
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ื•ืœืขืชื™ื ืงืจื•ื‘ื•ืช ื”ื ืœื ื”ืฆืœื™ื—ื•.
04:41
But these bad projects,
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ืืš ืื•ืชื ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื’ืจื•ืขื™ื,
04:43
which were absolutely damaging -- for the economy
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ืฉื’ืจืžื• ื ื–ืง ืžื•ื—ืœื˜ ืœื›ืœื›ืœื”,
04:45
for many generations, for the environment,
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ืœืžืฉืš ื“ื•ืจื•ืช ืจื‘ื™ื, ืœืกื‘ื™ื‘ื”,
04:48
for thousands of families who had to be resettled --
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ืœืืœืคื™ ื”ืžืฉืคื—ื•ืช ืฉื ืืœืฆื• ืœืขืงื•ืจ ืœืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ืื—ืจื™ื.
04:51
they were suddenly put together
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ืืœื” ื”ื•ืงืžื• ืœืคืชืข-ืคืชืื•ื
04:53
by consortia of banks,
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ื‘ื™ื“ื™ ืื™ื—ื•ื“ ืฉืœ ื‘ื ืงื™ื,
04:56
of supplier agencies,
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ืื• ืกื•ื›ื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืืกืคืงื”,
04:58
of insurance agencies --
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ืื• ืกื•ื›ื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื™ื˜ื•ื—,
05:00
like in Germany, Hermes, and so on --
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ื›ืžื• "ื”ืจืžืก" ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”, ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”,
05:03
and they came back very, very quickly,
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ื•ื”ื ื—ื–ืจื• ืžื”ืจ ืžืื“
05:05
driven by an unholy alliance
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ืžื•ื ืขื™ื ื‘ื™ื“ื™ ื”ื‘ืจื™ืช ื”ื—ื˜ืื”
05:07
between the powerful elites
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ืฉื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืืœื™ื˜ื•ืช ืจื‘ื•ืช ื”ืขื•ืฆืžื”
05:11
in the countries there
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ื‘ืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ื”ืŸ,
05:13
and the suppliers from the North.
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ื•ื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืกืคืงื™ื ืžืŸ ื”ืฆืคื•ืŸ.
05:15
Now, these suppliers
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ื”ืกืคืงื™ื ื”ืœืœื•
05:17
were our big companies.
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ื”ื™ื• ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•.
05:19
They were the actors of this global market,
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ื”ืŸ ื”ื™ื• ื”ืฉื—ืงื ื™ื ืขืœ ื‘ืžืช ื”ืฉื•ืง ื”ื’ืœื•ื‘ืœื™ ื”ื–ื”
05:22
which I mentioned in the beginning.
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ืฉื”ื–ื›ืจืชื™ ื‘ื”ืชื—ืœื”.
05:24
They were the Siemenses of this world,
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ื”ืŸ ื”ื™ื• ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”"ืกื™ืžื ืก" ืฉืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ื–ื”,
05:27
coming from France, from the UK, from Japan,
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ื”ืŸ ื”ื’ื™ืขื• ืžืฆืจืคืช, ืžื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”, ืžื™ืคืŸ,
05:29
from Canada, from Germany,
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ืžืงื ื“ื”, ืžื’ืจืžื ื™ื”,
05:31
and they were systematically driven
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ื•ื”ื ื”ื•ื ืขื• ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ืช
05:34
by systematic, large-scale corruption.
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ืข"ื™ ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ืช ื•ืจื—ื‘ืช ื”ื™ืงืฃ.
05:37
We are not talking about
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ืื™ื ื ื• ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื
05:39
50,000 dollars here,
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ืขืœ 50,000 ื“ื•ืœืจ ื›ืืŸ,
05:41
or 100,000 dollars there, or one million dollars there.
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ืื• 100,000 ื“ื•ืœืจ ืฉื, ืื• ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ ื“ื•ืœืจ ืฉื.
05:44
No, we are talking about 10 million, 20 million dollars
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ืœื. ืื ื• ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ 10 ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ, 20 ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ ื“ื•ืœืจ,
05:47
on the Swiss bank accounts,
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ื‘ื—ืฉื‘ื•ื ื•ืช ื‘ื ืงื™ื ืฉื•ื•ื™ื™ืฆืจื™ื™ื,
05:49
on the bank accounts of Liechtenstein,
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ื‘ื—ืฉื‘ื•ื ื•ืช ื”ื‘ื ืงื™ื ืฉืœ ืœื™ื›ื˜ื ืฉื˜ื™ื™ืŸ,
05:51
of the president's ministers,
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ืฉืœ ืฉืจื™ ื”ื ืฉื™ื,
05:55
the high officials in the para-statal sectors.
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ื”ืคืงื™ื“ื™ื ื”ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื™ื ื‘ืžื’ื–ืจื™ื ืงืจื•ื‘ื™ื ืœืžืžืฉืœ.
05:58
This was the reality which I saw,
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ื–ื• ื”ื™ื ื”ืžืฆื™ืื•ืช ืฉืคื’ืฉืชื™,
06:00
and not only one project like that:
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ื•ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืจืง ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ ืื—ื“ ื›ื–ื”,
06:02
I saw, I would say,
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื•ืžืจ ืฉืจืื™ืชื™
06:04
over the years I worked in Africa,
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ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉื ื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ื“ืชื™ ื‘ืืคืจื™ืงื”,
06:06
I saw hundreds of projects like this.
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ืžืื•ืช ืคืจื•ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื ื›ืžื• ื–ื”.
06:08
And so, I became convinced
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ื”ืฉืชื›ื ืขืชื™
06:11
that it is this systematic corruption
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ืฉืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ืช ื–ื•,
06:14
which is perverting economic policy-making in these countries,
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ืฉืคืฉืชื” ื‘ืขื™ืฆื•ื‘ ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื™ื•ืช ื”ื›ืœื›ืœื™ืช ื‘ืื•ืชืŸ ืืจืฆื•ืช,
06:17
which is the main reason
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ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ื ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ื”ืขื™ืงืจื™ืช
06:20
for the misery, for the poverty,
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ืœืื•ืžืœืœื•ืช, ืœืขื•ื ื™,
06:23
for the conflicts, for the violence,
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ืœืงื•ื ืคืœื™ืงื˜ื™ื, ืœืืœื™ืžื•ืช,
06:25
for the desperation
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ืœื™ื™ืื•ืฉ
06:27
in many of these countries.
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ื‘ืจื‘ื•ืช ืžื”ืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ืœืœื•.
06:29
That we have today
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ืขื“ ื›ื“ื™ ื›ืš ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื”ื™ื•ื
06:31
more than a billion people below the absolute poverty line,
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ืžืขืœ ืžื™ืœื™ืืจื“ ื‘ื ื™ ืื“ื ืžืชื—ืช ืœืงื• ื”ืขื•ื ื™ ื”ืžื•ื—ืœื˜,
06:34
that we have more than a billion people
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ื•ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืžื™ืœื™ืืจื“ ื‘ื ื™ ืื“ื ื‘ืขื•ืœื
06:37
without proper drinking water in the world,
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ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื”ื ืžื™ ืฉืชื™ื™ื” ืจืื•ื™ื™ื ืœืฉืžื,
06:39
twice that number,
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ื›ืคืœื™ื™ื ืžื–ื”,
06:41
more than two billion people
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ืžืขืœ ืฉื ื™ ืžื™ืœื™ืืจื“ ื‘ื ื™ ืื“ื
06:43
without sanitation and so on,
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ืœืœื ืชื ืื™ื ื”ื™ื’ื™ื™ื ื™ื™ื ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”,
06:45
and the consequent illnesses
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ื•ื”ืžื—ืœื•ืช ื”ื ื•ื‘ืขื•ืช ืžื›ืš
06:47
of mothers and children,
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ืฉืœ ืืžื”ื•ืช ื•ื™ืœื“ื™ื,
06:50
still, child mortality of more than
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ื•ืชืžื•ืชืช ื™ืœื“ื™ื ืฉืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ
06:53
10 million people every year,
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ืžืืฉืจ 10 ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ ื ืคืฉื•ืช ื‘ืฉื ื”,
06:55
children dying before they are five years old:
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ื™ืœื“ื™ื ืฉืžืชื™ื ืœืคื ื™ ื’ื™ืœ ื—ืžืฉ.
06:57
The cause of this is, to a large extent,
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ื•ื”ื’ื•ืจื ืœื›ืš ื‘ืžื™ื“ื” ืจื‘ื”
07:00
grand corruption.
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ื”ื•ื ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ื”ืื“ื™ืจื”.
07:02
Now, why did the World Bank
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ื•ืžื“ื•ืข ืœื ื”ื ื™ื— ืœื™ ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™
07:05
not let me do this work?
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ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืœืื›ื” ื–ื•?
07:08
I found out afterwards,
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ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืžืื•ื—ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ,
07:11
after I left, under a big fight, the World Bank.
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ืื—ืจื™ ืฉืขื–ื‘ืชื™ ื‘ืจื™ื‘ ื’ื“ื•ืœ ืืช ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™.
07:14
The reason was that the members of the World Bank
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ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ื”ื™ืชื” ืฉื—ื‘ืจื™ ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™
07:17
thought that foreign bribery was okay,
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ื—ืฉื‘ื• ืฉืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ ื”ื•ื ื‘ืกื“ืจ,
07:20
including Germany.
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ื›ื•ืœืœ ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”.
07:22
In Germany, foreign bribery was allowed.
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ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื” ืžื•ืชืจ ืœืชืช ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ื—ื•"ืœ.
07:24
It was even tax-deductible.
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ื™ืฉ ืขืœ ื–ื” ืืคื™ืœื• ื ื™ื›ื•ื™ ืžืก.
07:27
No wonder that most of the most important
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ืื™ืŸ ืคืœื ืฉื”ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื•ืช
07:29
international operators in Germany,
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ื‘ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ื•ืช ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”,
07:32
but also in France and the UK
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ืืš ื’ื ื‘ืฆืจืคืช ื•ื‘ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”
07:34
and Scandinavia, everywhere, systematically bribed.
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ื•ื‘ืกืงื ื“ื™ื ื‘ื™ื” ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ืžืงื•ื, ื ืชื ื• ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™.
07:36
Not all of them, but most of them.
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ืœื ื›ื•ืœื, ืืš ืžืจื‘ื™ืชื.
07:39
And this is the phenomenon
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ื•ื–ื• ื”ืชื•ืคืขื”
07:41
which I call failing governance,
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ืื•ืชื” ืื ื™ ืžื›ื ื” 'ืคื™ืงื•ื— ื›ื•ืฉืœ',
07:44
because when I then came to Germany
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื›ืืฉืจ ื”ื’ืขืชื™ ืื—"ื› ืœื’ืจืžื ื™ื”
07:46
and started this little NGO
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ื•ื™ื™ืกื“ืชื™ ืืช ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ื”ืœื-ืžืžืฉืœืชื™ ื”ืงื˜ืŸ ื”ื–ื”
07:48
here in Berlin, at the Villa Borsig,
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ื›ืืŸ ื‘ื‘ืจืœื™ืŸ, ื‘"ื•ื™ืœื” ื‘ื•ืจืกื™ื’".
07:52
we were told, "You cannot stop
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ืืžืจื• ืœื ื•: ืืกื•ืจ ืœื›ื ืœืžื ื•ืข
07:55
our German exporters from bribing,
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ืืช ื”ื™ืฆื•ืื ื™ื ื”ื’ืจืžื ื™ื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ืžืžืชืŸ ืฉื•ื—ื“,
07:57
because we will lose our contracts.
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ื›ื™ ืื– ื ืื‘ื“ ืืช ื”ืงืฉืจื™ื ืฉืœื ื•.
08:00
We will lose to the French,
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ื ืคืกื™ื“ ืื•ืชื ืœื˜ื•ื‘ืช ื”ืฆืจืคืชื™ื,
08:02
we will lose to the Swedes, we'll lose to the Japanese."
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ื ืคืกื™ื“ ืื•ืชื ืœื˜ื•ื‘ืช ื”ืฉื•ื•ื“ื™ื, ื”ื™ืคื ื™ื,
08:05
And therefore, there was a indeed a prisoner's dilemma,
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ื–ื• ื‘ืืžืช ื”ื™ืชื” ื“ื™ืœืžืช ื”ืืกื™ืจ,
08:08
which made it very difficult
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ืžื” ืฉื”ืงืฉื” ืžืื“
08:10
for an individual company,
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ืขืœ ื—ื‘ืจื” ื‘ื•ื“ื“ืช,
08:12
an individual exporting country
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ืขืœ ืืจืฅ ืžื™ื™ืฆืืช ื‘ื•ื“ื“ืช
08:15
to say, "We are not going to
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ืœื•ืžืจ: ืื ื• ืœื ืžื•ื›ื ื™ื
08:17
continue this deadly, disastrous
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ืœื”ืžืฉื™ืš ื‘ืžื ื”ื’ ื”ืงื˜ืœื ื™ ื•ื”ืจื”-ื”ืืกื•ืŸ ื”ื–ื”
08:20
habit of large companies to bribe."
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ืฉืœ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื•ืช, ืœืฉื—ื“.
08:24
So this is what I mean
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ืื– ืœื›ืš ืื ื™ ืžืชื›ื•ื•ืŸ
08:26
with a failing governance structure,
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ื‘ืžื‘ื ื” ื›ื•ืฉืœ ืฉืœ ืคื™ืงื•ื— ืžืžืฉืœืชื™
08:29
because even the powerful government,
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื’ื ื”ืžืžืฉืœ ื”ื—ื–ืง ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
08:31
which we have in Germany, comparatively,
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”, ื‘ื”ืฉื•ื•ืื”,
08:34
was not able to say,
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ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืžืกื•ื’ืœ ืœื•ืžืจ,
08:36
"We will not allow our companies to bribe abroad."
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"ืœื ื ืจืฉื” ืœื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืฉืœื ื• ืœืชืช ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ื—ื•"ืœ"
08:39
They needed help,
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ื”ื ื ื–ืงืงื• ืœืขื–ืจื”,
08:41
and the large companies themselves
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ื•ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื•ืช ืขืฆืžืŸ
08:43
have this dilemma.
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ืžืชื—ื‘ื˜ื•ืช ื‘ื‘ืขื™ื” ื–ื•.
08:45
Many of them didn't want to bribe.
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ืจื‘ื•ืช ืžื”ืŸ ืœื ืจื•ืฆื•ืช ืœืชืช ืฉื•ื—ื“.
08:47
Many of the German companies, for instance,
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ืจื‘ื•ืช ืžื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื’ืจืžื ื™ื•ืช, ืœืžืฉืœ,
08:49
believe that they are really
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ืžืืžื™ื ื•ืช ืฉื”ืŸ ืื›ืŸ
08:51
producing a high-quality product
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ืžื™ื™ืฆืจื•ืช ืชื•ืฆืจืช ืื™ื›ื•ืชื™ืช
08:53
at a good price, so they are very competitive.
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ื‘ืžื—ื™ืจ ื˜ื•ื‘, ื›ืš ืฉื”ืŸ ืชื—ืจื•ืชื™ื•ืช ืžืื“.
08:56
They are not as good at bribing
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ื”ืŸ ืื™ื ืŸ ื˜ื•ื‘ื•ืช ื‘ืžืชืŸ ืฉื•ื—ื“
08:59
as many of their international competitors are,
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ื›ืžื• ืจื‘ื™ื ืžืžืชื—ืจื™ื”ืŸ ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื,
09:01
but they were not allowed
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ืื•ืœื ืœื ื”ืชื™ืจื• ืœื”ืŸ
09:03
to show their strengths,
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ืœื”ืคื’ื™ืŸ ืืช ื›ื•ื—ืŸ,
09:05
because the world was eaten up
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ื›ื™ ื‘ืขื•ืœื ืžื›ืจืกืžืช
09:08
by grand corruption.
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ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ืื“ื™ืจื”.
09:10
And this is why I'm telling you this:
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ืื ื™ ืžืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ื–ืืช,
09:14
Civil society rose to the occasion.
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ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื” ืœื”ื™ืขื ื•ืช ืœืืชื’ืจ.
09:18
We had this small NGO,
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ื”ื™ื” ืœื ื• ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœื-ืžืžืฉืœืชื™ ืงื˜ืŸ,
09:20
Transparency International.
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"ืฉืงื™ืคื•ืช ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ืช",
09:22
They began to think of
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ื”ื ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘
09:24
an escape route from this prisoner's dilemma,
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ืขืœ ืžื•ืฆื ืžื“ื™ืœืžืช ื”ืืกื™ืจ,
09:27
and we developed concepts
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ื•ืคื™ืชื—ื ื• ืจืขื™ื•ื ื•ืช
09:31
of collective action,
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ืœืคืขื•ืœื” ืงื•ืœืงื˜ื™ื‘ื™ืช,
09:33
basically trying to bring various competitors
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ืฉืœ ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ืœื›ื ืก ืžืชื—ืจื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื
09:35
together around the table,
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ืกื‘ื™ื‘ ื”ืฉื•ืœื—ืŸ,
09:37
explaining to all of them
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ืœื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืœื›ื•ืœื
09:39
how much it would be in their interests
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ื›ืžื” ื–ื” ื™ืฉืจืช ืืช ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจืก ืฉืœื”ื
09:41
if they simultaneously would stop bribing,
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ื”ื ื›ื•ืœื ื™ื—ื“ืœื• ื‘ื‘ืช ืื—ืช ืœืชืช ืฉื•ื—ื“,
09:43
and to make a long story short,
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ื•ื‘ืงืฆืจื”,
09:46
we managed to eventually
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ื”ืฆืœื—ื ื• ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ
09:48
get Germany to sign
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ืœื”ื‘ื™ื ืืช ื’ืจืžื ื™ื” ืœื—ืชื•ื
09:50
together with the other OECD countries
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ืขื ื™ืชืจ ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช "ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœืฉื™ืชื•ืฃ ืคืขื•ืœื” ื•ืคื™ืชื•ื— ื›ืœื›ืœื™"
09:52
and a few other exporters.
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ื•ืขื•ื“ ื›ืžื” ื™ืฆื•ืื ื™ื,
09:54
In 1997, a convention,
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ื‘-1997, ืขืœ ืืžื ื”,
09:57
under the auspices of the OECD,
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ื‘ื—ืกื•ืช ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœืฉื™ืชื•ืฃ ืคืขื•ืœื” ื•ืคื™ืชื•ื— ื›ืœื›ืœื™,
09:59
which obliged everybody
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ืฉืžื—ื™ื™ื‘ืช ืืช ื›ื•ืœื
10:01
to change their laws
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ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืืช ื—ื•ืงื™ื”ื
10:03
and criminalize foreign bribery.
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื•ืฆื™ื ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœื—ื•ืง ืžืชืŸ ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ื—ื•"ืœ.
10:05
(Applause)
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[ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื]
10:09
Well, thank you. I mean, it's interesting,
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื”. ื–ื” ืžืขื ื™ื™ืŸ,
10:11
in doing this,
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ืฉื‘ืขืฉื•ืชื ื• ื–ืืช,
10:13
we had to sit together with the companies.
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ื”ื™ื” ืขืœื™ื ื• ืœืฉื‘ืช ื™ื—ื“ ืขื ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช,
10:16
We had here in Berlin, at the Aspen Institute on the Wannsee,
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ื”ื™ื” ืœื ื• ื›ืืŸ ื‘ื‘ืจืœื™ืŸ ื•ื‘ืžื›ื•ืŸ "ืืกืคืŸ" ืฉื‘ืื’ื ื•ืื ืืกื™,
10:19
we had sessions with about
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ื”ื™ื• ืœื ื• ืžืคื’ืฉื™ื ืขื
10:21
20 captains of industry,
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ื‘ืขืจืš 20 ืžืจืืฉื™ ื”ืชืขืฉื™ื™ื”,
10:23
and we discussed with them
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ื•ื“ื ื• ืื™ืชื ื‘ืกื•ื’ื™ื”
10:25
what to do about international bribery.
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ืžื” ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื‘ื ื•ืฉื ื”ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™.
10:27
In the first session -- we had three sessions
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ื‘ืคื’ื™ืฉื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื”, ื”ื™ื• ืœื ื• ืฉืœื•ืฉื” ืžืคื’ืฉื™ื
10:29
over the course of two years.
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ื‘ืžื”ืœืš ืฉื ืชื™ื™ื,
10:31
And President von Weizsรคcker, by the way,
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ื•ื ืฉื™ื ืžืžืฉืคื—ืช ื•ื™ืฆืืงืจ, ืื’ื‘,
10:34
chaired one of the sessions, the first one,
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ื™ืฉื‘ ื‘ืจืืฉ ืื—ื“ ื”ืžืคื’ืฉื™ื, ื‘ืžืคื’ืฉ ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ
10:36
to take the fear away
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคื™ื’ ืืช ื”ื—ืฉืฉ
10:38
from the entrepreneurs,
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ืžืœื™ื‘ื•ืช ื”ื™ื–ืžื™ื,
10:41
who were not used to deal
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ืฉืœื ื”ื™ื• ืจื’ื™ืœื™ื ืœืžื’ืขื™ื
10:43
with non-governmental organizations.
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ืขื ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ื ืœื-ืžืžืฉืœืชื™ื™ื.
10:45
And in the first session, they all said,
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ื•ื‘ืคื’ื™ืฉื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื”, ื›ื•ืœื ืืžืจื•,
10:48
"This is not bribery, what we are doing." This is customary there.
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"ื–ื” ืœื ืฉื•ื—ื“, ืžื” ืฉืื ื• ืขื•ืฉื™ื. ื–ื”ื• ื”ื ื•ื”ื’ ืฉื.
10:51
This is what these other cultures demand.
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ื–ื” ืžื” ืฉื”ืชืจื‘ื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืืœื” ื“ื•ืจืฉื•ืช.
10:54
They even applaud it.
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ื”ืŸ ืืคื™ืœื• ืžืขื•ื“ื“ื•ืช ืืช ื–ื”".
10:56
In fact, [unclear]
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ืœืžืขืฉื”, ืžืจื˜ื™ืŸ ื•ืืœื–ืจ
10:58
still says this today.
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ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื˜ื•ืขืŸ ื›ืš ืขื“ ื”ื™ื•ื.
11:00
And so there are still a lot of people
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ื›ืš ืฉื™ืฉ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื
11:02
who are not convinced that you have to stop bribing.
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ืฉื˜ืจื ื”ืฉืชื›ื ืขื• ืฉืขืœื™ื ื• ืœื—ื“ื•ืœ ืžืžืชืŸ ืฉื•ื—ื“.
11:05
But in the second session,
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ืืš ื‘ืžืคื’ืฉ ื”ืฉื ื™,
11:07
they admitted already that they would never do this,
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ื”ื ื›ื‘ืจ ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืฉืœื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช ื™ื•ืชืจ,
11:09
what they are doing in these other countries,
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ืืช ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืขื•ืฉื™ื ื‘ืืจืฆื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช,
11:12
here in Germany, or in the U.K., and so on.
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ื›ืืŸ ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื” ืื• ื‘ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื” ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”.
11:14
Cabinet ministers would admit this.
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ืฉืจื™ ื”ืžืžืฉืœื” ื”ื•ื“ื• ื‘ื›ืš.
11:17
And in the final session, at the Aspen Institute,
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ื•ื‘ืžืคื’ืฉ ื”ืื—ืจื•ืŸ, ื‘ืžื›ื•ืŸ "ืืกืคืŸ",
11:20
we had them all sign an open letter
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ื”ื—ืชืžื ื• ืืช ื›ื•ืœื ืขืœ ืžื›ืชื‘ ื’ืœื•ื™
11:23
to the Kohl government, at the time,
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ืœืžืžืฉืœ ืฉืœ ืงื•ื”ืœ, ื‘ื–ืžื ื•,
11:25
requesting that they
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ื”ืžื‘ืงืฉ ืฉื”ื
11:27
participate in the OECD convention.
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ื™ืฆื˜ืจืคื• ืœืืžื ืช ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœืฉื™ืชื•ืฃ ืคืขื•ืœื” ื•ืคื™ืชื•ื— ื›ืœื›ืœื™.
11:29
And this is, in my opinion,
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ื•ื–ื• ืœื“ืขืชื™
11:32
an example of soft power,
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ื“ื•ื’ืžื” ืœืขื•ืฆืžื” ืจื›ื”,
11:34
because we were able to convince them
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ื›ื™ ื”ืฆืœื—ื ื• ืœืฉื›ื ืข ืื•ืชื
11:36
that they had to go with us.
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ืฉื›ื“ืื™ ืœื”ื ืœืฆื“ื“ ื‘ื ื•.
11:38
We had a longer-term time perspective.
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ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื ื• ืคืจืกืคืงื˜ื™ื‘ื” ืฉืœ ื‘ืขืœื™ ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ.
11:41
We had a broader,
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ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ
11:43
geographically much wider,
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ื•ืจื—ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ
11:45
constituency we were trying to defend.
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ื”ื•ื ืฆื™ื‘ื•ืจ ื”ื‘ื•ื—ืจื™ื ืขืœื™ื• ื ื™ืกื™ื ื• ืœื”ื’ืŸ
11:47
And that's why the law has changed.
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ื”ืฉืชื ื” ื”ื—ื•ืง.
11:49
That's why Siemens is now in the trouble they are in
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ "ืกื™ืžื ืก" ื ืงืœืขื” ืœืฆืจื” ื‘ื” ื”ื™ื ื ืžืฆืืช.
11:52
and that's why MIN is in the trouble they are in.
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ "ืื-ืื™ื™-ืืŸ" ื ืงืœืขื” ืœืฆืจื” ื‘ื” ื”ื™ื ื ืžืฆืืช.
11:55
In some other countries, the OECD convention
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ื‘ืืจืฆื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช, ืืžื ืช "ื”ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœืฉื™ืชื•ืฃ ืคืขื•ืœื” ื•ืคื™ืชื•ื— ื›ืœื›ืœื™"
11:58
is not yet properly enforced.
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ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืœื ื ืื›ืคืช ื”ื™ื˜ื‘.
12:00
And, again, civil societies
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ื•ืฉื•ื‘, ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช
12:02
breathing down the neck of the establishment.
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ื ื•ืฉืคื•ืช ื‘ืขื•ืจืคื• ืฉืœ ื”ืžืžืกื“.
12:05
In London, for instance,
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ื‘ืœื•ื ื“ื•ืŸ, ืœืžืฉืœ,
12:07
where the BAE got away
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ืฉื‘ื” ื—ื‘ืจืช "ื‘ื™-ืื™ื™-ืื™" ื—ืžืงื”
12:09
with a huge corruption case,
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ืžืชื‘ื™ืขืช ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ืขื ืงื™ืช,
12:11
which the Serious Fraud Office tried to prosecute,
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ืฉื”ืžืฉืจื“ ืœื—ืงืจ ื”ื•ื ืื•ืช ืฉืœ ืžื—ื•ื– ืกืืจื™ ื”ื’ื™ืฉ ื ื’ื“ื”,
12:15
100 million British pounds,
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100 ืžืœื™ื•ืŸ ืœื™ืจื•ืช ืฉื˜ืจืœื™ื ื’,
12:17
every year for ten years,
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ืžื™ื“ื™ ืฉื ื” ื‘ืžืฉืš ืขืฉืจ ืฉื ื™ื,
12:19
to one particular official of one particular friendly country,
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ืœืคืงื™ื“ ืžืžืฉืœืชื™ ืžืกื•ื™ื ื‘ืืจืฅ ื™ื“ื™ื“ื•ืชื™ืช ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช,
12:22
who then bought for
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ืฉื‘ืชืžื•ืจื” ืจื›ืฉ
12:24
44 billion pounds of military equipment.
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ืฆื™ื•ื“ ืฆื‘ืื™ ื‘-44 ืžื™ืœื™ืืจื“ ืœื™ืฉ"ื˜.
12:28
This case, they are not prosecuting in the UK.
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ื–ื” ืœื ื™ื’ื™ืข ืœื‘ื™ืช ื”ืžืฉืคื˜ ื‘ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”.
12:30
Why? Because they consider this
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ืžื“ื•ืข? ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื‘ืขื™ื ื™ื”ื
12:32
as contrary to the security interest
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ื–ื” ื ื•ื’ื“ ืืช ื”ืื™ื ื˜ืจืก ื”ื‘ื˜ื—ื•ื ื™
12:35
of the people of Great Britain.
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ืฉืœ ื”ืขื ื”ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื™.
12:37
Civil society is pushing, civil society
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ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช ื“ื•ื—ืคืช, ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช
12:39
is trying to get a solution to this problem,
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ืžื ืกื” ืœื”ืฉื™ื’ ืคืชืจื•ืŸ ืœื‘ืขื™ื” ื–ื•
12:42
also in the U.K.,
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ื•ื’ื ื‘ื‘ืจื™ื˜ื ื™ื”
12:44
and also in Japan, which is not properly enforcing,
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ื•ื’ื ื‘ื™ืคืŸ, ืฉืœื ืื•ื›ืคืช ื”ื™ื˜ื‘,
12:46
and so on.
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ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”.
12:48
In Germany, we are pushing
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ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”, ืื ื• ื“ื•ื—ืคื™ื
12:50
the ratification of the UN convention,
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ืœืื™ืฉื•ืจ ืืžื ืช ื”ืื•"ื
12:52
which is a subsequent convention.
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ืฉื”ื™ื ืืžื ืช-ื”ืžืฉืš ืœืฉืœื ื•.
12:54
We are, Germany, is not ratifying.
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ืื ื•, ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”, ืœื ืžืืฉืจื™ื ืื•ืชื”.
12:56
Why? Because it would make it necessary
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ืžื“ื•ืข? ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื–ื” ื™ื—ื™ื™ื‘
12:59
to criminalize the corruption
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ืœื”ื•ืฆื™ื ืืช ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœื—ื•ืง
13:02
of deputies.
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ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ื ื•ื’ืข ืœืกื’ื ื™ื.
13:04
In Germany, we have a system where
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ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื” ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืžืขืจื›ืช ืฉื‘ื”,
13:06
you are not allowed to bribe a civil servant,
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ืืกื•ืจ ืœืš ืœืฉื—ื“ ืขื•ื‘ื“ ืžื“ื™ื ื”,
13:09
but you are allowed to bribe a deputy.
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ืื‘ืœ ืžื•ืชืจ ืœืš ืœืฉื—ื“ ืืช ืกื’ื ื•.
13:12
This is, under German law, allowed,
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ืœืคื™ ื”ื—ื•ืง ื”ื’ืจืžื ื™ ื–ื” ืžื•ืชืจ.
13:15
and the members of our parliament don't want to change this,
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ื•ื—ื‘ืจื™ ื‘ื™ืช ื”ื ื‘ื—ืจื™ื ืœื ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืฉื ื•ืช ื–ืืช,
13:17
and this is why they can't sign
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ืื™ืŸ ื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื—ืชื•ื
13:19
the U.N. convention against foreign bribery --
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ืขืœ ืืžื ืช ื”ืื•"ื ื ื’ื“ ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™,
13:22
one of they very, very few countries
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ืื—ืช ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ื”ืžืขื˜ื•ืช ืžืื“
13:24
which is preaching honesty and good governance everywhere in the world,
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ืฉืžื˜ื™ืคื” ืœื›ื ื•ืช ื•ืœืžืžืฉืœ ื˜ื•ื‘ ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื,
13:27
but not able to ratify the convention,
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ืืš ืœื ืžืกื•ื’ืœืช ืœืืฉืจ ืืช ื”ืืžื ื”,
13:29
which we managed to get on the books
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ืฉืขืœื™ื” ื”ืฆืœื—ื ื• ืœื”ื—ืชื™ื
13:32
with about 160 countries all over the world.
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160 ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ืžื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื.
13:35
I see my time is ticking.
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ืื ื™ ืจื•ืื” ืฉืขืœื™ ืœืกื™ื™ื.
13:37
Let me just try to
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ื”ื‘ื” ื•ืื ืกื” ืจืง
13:39
draw some conclusions from what has happened.
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ืœื”ืกื™ืง ื›ืžื” ืžืกืงื ื•ืช ืžืžื” ืฉืงืจื”.
13:42
I believe that what we managed to achieve
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ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ืŸ ืฉืžื” ืฉื”ืฆืœื—ื ื• ืœื”ืฉื™ื’
13:46
in fighting corruption,
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ื‘ืžืœื—ืžื” ื‘ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช,
13:49
one can also achieve
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ื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื”ืฉื™ื’ ื’ื
13:51
in other areas of failing governance.
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ื‘ืชื—ื•ืžื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื ืฉืœ ืžืžืฉืœ ื›ื•ืฉืœ.
13:53
By now, the United Nations
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ื”ื™ื•ื ื›ื‘ืจ ื”ืื•"ื
13:55
is totally on our side.
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ืœื’ืžืจื™ ืœืฆื™ื“ื ื•.
13:57
The World Bank has turned from Saulus to Paulus; under Wolfensohn,
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ื”ื‘ื ืง ื”ืขื•ืœืžื™ ื”ืคืš ืืช ืขื•ืจื• ืชื—ืช ื ื™ื”ื•ืœื• ืฉืœ ื•ื•ืœืคื ืกื•ืŸ
14:01
they became, I would say, the strongest
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ื•ื”ืคืš, ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื•ืžืจ,
14:04
anti-corruption agency in the world.
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ืœืœื•ื—ื ื”ื—ื–ืง ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื ื’ื“ ื”ืฉื—ื™ืชื•ืช.
14:06
Most of the large companies
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ืžืจื‘ื™ืช ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื•ืช
14:08
are now totally convinced
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ืžืฉื•ื›ื ืขื•ืช ื›ืขืช ืœื—ืœื•ื˜ื™ืŸ
14:10
that they have to put in place
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ืฉืขืœื™ื”ืŸ ืœืงื‘ื•ืข
14:12
very strong policies
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ืžื“ื™ื ื™ื•ืช ื—ื–ืงื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
14:14
against bribery and so on.
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ื ื’ื“ ืฉื•ื—ื“ ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”.
14:16
And this is possible because civil society
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ืชืืคืฉืจ ืžื›ื™ื•ื•ืŸ ืฉื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช
14:19
joined the companies
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ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคื” ืœื—ื‘ืจื•ืช
14:21
and joined the government
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ื•ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคื” ืœืžืžืฉืœ
14:23
in the analysis of the problem,
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ื‘ื ื™ืชื•ื— ื”ื‘ืขื™ื”,
14:25
in the development of remedies,
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ื‘ืขื™ื‘ื•ื“ ื”ืคืชืจื•ื ื•ืช,
14:27
in the implementation of reforms,
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ื‘ื™ื™ืฉื•ื ื”ืจืคื•ืจืžื•ืช,
14:30
and then later, in the monitoring of reforms.
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ื•ื‘ื”ืžืฉืš, ื‘ืคื™ืงื•ื— ืขืœ ื”ืจืคื•ืจืžื•ืช.
14:33
Of course, if civil society organizations
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ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ, ืื ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช
14:36
want to play that role,
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ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืžืœื ืชืคืงื™ื“ ื–ื”,
14:38
they have to grow into this responsibility.
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ืขืœื™ื”ื ืœื ื”ื•ื’ ื‘ื’ืจื•ืช ื•ืื—ืจื™ื•ืช.
14:42
Not all civil society organizations are good.
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ืœื ื›ืœ ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช ื”ื ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื.
14:45
The Ku Klux Klan is an NGO.
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ื”"ืงื•-ืงืœื•ืงืก-ืงืœืืŸ" ื”ื•ื ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ืœื-ืžืžืฉืœืชื™.
14:48
So, we must be aware
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ื›ืš ืฉืขืœื™ื ื• ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื•ื“ืขื™ื ืœื›ืš
14:50
that civil society
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ืฉื—ื‘ืจื” ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช
14:52
has to shape up itself.
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ืฆืจื™ื›ื” ืœื’ื‘ืฉ ืืช ืขืฆืžื”.
14:54
They have to have a much more
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ืขืœื™ื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืขืœืช ืคื™ืงื•ื—
14:56
transparent financial governance.
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ืฉืงื•ืฃ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื‘ื—ื™ื ื” ืคื™ื ื ืกื™ืช.
14:58
They have to have a much more participatory governance
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ืฆืจื™ืš ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืœื” ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืคื™ืงื•ื— ืžืฉื•ืชืฃ
15:01
in many civil society organizations.
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ืขื ืืจื’ื•ื ื™ ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช ืจื‘ื™ื.
15:04
We also need much more competence of civil society leaders.
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ื ื—ื•ืฆื” ืœื ื• ื’ื ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ื˜ื•ื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœ ืจืืฉื™ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช.
15:07
This is why we have set up the governance school
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ื•ืœื›ืŸ ื”ืงืžื ื• ืืช ื‘ื™ืช ื”ืกืคืจ ืœืคื™ืงื•ื—
15:10
and the Center for Civil Society here in Berlin,
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ื•ืืช "ื”ืžืจื›ื– ืœื—ื‘ืจื•ืช ืื–ืจื—ื™ื•ืช" ื›ืืŸ ื‘ื‘ืจืœื™ืŸ.
15:12
because we believe most of our educational
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ื›ื™ ืื ื• ืžืืžื™ื ื™ื
15:15
and research institutions in Germany
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ืฉืจื•ื‘ ืžื•ืกื“ื•ืช ื”ื”ืฉื›ืœื” ื•ื”ืžื—ืงืจ ืฉืœื ื• ื‘ื’ืจืžื ื™ื”
15:17
and continental Europe in general,
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ื•ื‘ื™ื‘ืฉืช ืื™ืจื•ืคื” ื‘ื›ืœืœ,
15:19
do not focus enough, yet,
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ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืœื ืžืชืžืงื“ื™ื ืžืกืคื™ืง
15:21
on empowering civil society
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ื‘ื”ืขืฆืžืช ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช
15:23
and training the leadership of civil society.
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ื•ื‘ื”ื›ืฉืจืชื” ืฉืœ ืžื ื”ื™ื’ื•ืช ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช.
15:26
But what I'm saying from my very practical experience:
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ืืš ืื ื™ ืื•ืžืจ, ืžื ืกื™ื•ื ื™ ื”ืžืขืฉื™ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
15:29
If civil society does it right
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ืฉืื ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช ืชืขืฉื” ื–ืืช ื›ื”ืœื›ื”
15:32
and joins the other actors --
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ื•ืชืฆื˜ืจืฃ ืœืฉื—ืงื ื™ื ื”ืื—ืจื™ื,
15:35
in particular, governments,
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ื•ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ ืœืžืžืฉืœื•ืช,
15:37
governments and their international institutions,
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ื”ืžืžืฉืœื•ืช ื•ืžื•ืกื“ื•ืชื™ื”ืŸ ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื,
15:40
but also large international actors,
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ืืš ื’ื ืœืฉื—ืงื ื™ื ื”ื‘ื™ื ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื™ื,
15:43
in particular those which have committed themselves
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ื‘ืคืจื˜ ืืœื• ืฉื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ื•
15:45
to corporate social responsibility --
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ืœื ื”ื•ื’ ื‘ืื—ืจื™ื•ืช ื—ื‘ืจืชื™ืช,
15:47
then in this magical triangle
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ื›ื™ ืื–, ื‘ืžืฉื•ืœืฉ ืงืกื,
15:50
between civil society,
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ืฉืœ ื”ื—ื‘ืจื” ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ืช,
15:52
government and private sector,
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ื”ืžืžืฉืœ ื•ื”ืžื’ื–ืจ ื”ืคืจื˜ื™,
15:54
there is a tremendous chance
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ืชื™ื•ื•ืฆืจ ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ืช ืžืฆื•ื™ื ืช
15:56
for all of us to create a better world.
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ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื›ื•ืœื ื•, ืœื™ืฆื•ืจ ืขื•ืœื ื˜ื•ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
16:00
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื”.
16:02
(Applause)
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[ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื]
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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