Jackson Katz: Violence against women—it's a men's issue

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Mile Živković Lektor: Miloš Milosavljević

I'm going to share with you a paradigm-shifting perspective

Podeliću sa vama

pogled koji menja obrazac

viđenja rodnog nasilja -

on the issues of gender violence: sexual assault, domestic violence,

silovanje, nasilje u porodici, maltretiranje u vezi,

relationship abuse, sexual harassment, sexual abuse of children.

seksualno uznemiravanje, seksualno iskorišćavanje dece.

That whole range of issues

that I'll refer to in shorthand as "gender violence issues,"

Čitav spektar problema koji se ukratko nazivaju

"problemima rodnog nasilja"

they've been seen as women's issues that some good men help out with,

i viđeni su kao ženske poteškoće u vezi sa kojima pomažu

neki dobri muškarci, ali imam problem sa tim okvirom

but I have a problem with that frame and I don't accept it.

i ne prihvatam ga.

I don't see these as women's issues that some good men help out with.

Ne vidim to kao ženske probleme koje rešavaju dobri muškarci.

In fact, I'm going to argue that these are men's issues,

Zapravo, obrazložiću vam da su ovo prvenstveno

muški problemi.

first and foremost.

(Aplauz)

Now obviously --

(Applause)

Obviously, they're also women's issues, so I appreciate that,

Očigledno, to su i ženski problemi

što i razumem, ali nazivati

but calling gender violence a women's issue is part of the problem,

rodno nasilje ženskim problemom je samo deo problema

iz brojnih razloga.

for a number of reasons.

The first is that it gives men an excuse not to pay attention, right?

Prvi je da to daje muškarcima izgovor da ne vode računa.

Zar ne? Puno muškaraca čuje termin "ženski problemi"

A lot of men hear the term "women's issues"

and we tend to tune it out, and we think,

i težimo da ih zanemarimo, pa razmišljamo:

"I'm a guy; that's for the girls," or "that's for the women."

"Hej, ja sam muško. To je za devojke" ili " To je za žene."

And a lot of men literally don't get beyond the first sentence as a result.

A kao posledica toga, dosta muškaraca ne ode dalje

od prve rečenice.

Skoro kao da je čip u našim mozgovima aktiviran

It's almost like a chip in our brain is activated,

and the neural pathways take our attention in a different direction

i nervni putevi vode našu pažnju u drugom smeru

kada čujemo termin "ženski problemi".

when we hear the term "women's issues."

Ovo inače takođe važi i za reč "rod"

This is also true, by the way, of the word "gender,"

jer dosta ljudi kad čuje reč "rod"

because a lot of people hear the word "gender"

misli da to znači "žena".

and they think it means "women."

Stoga misle da su rodni problemi sinonim za ženske probleme.

So they think that gender issues is synonymous with women's issues.

Postoje neke zabune u vezi sa terminom "rod".

There's some confusion about the term gender.

Dozvolite mi da vam ilustrujem te zabune putem analogije.

And let me illustrate that confusion by way of analogy.

Hajde na kratko da pričamo o rasi.

So let's talk for a moment about race.

U Americi, kad čujemo reč "rasa"

In the US, when we hear the word "race,"

dosta ljudi misli da to znači: Afro-amerikanac,

a lot of people think that means African-American,

Latinos, Azijski Amerikanac, Indijanac,

Latino, Asian-American, Native American,

južni Azijat, pacifički ostrvljanin, i tako dalje.

South Asian, Pacific Islander, on and on.

A lot of people, when they hear the word "sexual orientation"

Dosta ljudi, kada čuju reč "seksualna orijentacija"

misle da to znači: gej, lezbijka, biseksualac.

think it means gay, lesbian, bisexual.

And a lot of people, when they hear the word "gender,"

A puno ljudi kada čuje reč "rod" misle da to znači: žene.

think it means women.

U svakom od navedenih slučajeva,

In each case, the dominant group doesn't get paid attention to.

ne obraća se pažnja na dominantnu grupu.

Zar ne? Kao da belci nemaju neku vrstu rasnog identiteta

As if white people don't have some sort of racial identity

ili da ne pripadaju nekoj rasnoj kategoriji i ustrojstvu,

or belong to some racial category or construct,

as if heterosexual people don't have a sexual orientation,

kao da heteroseksualci nemaju seksualnu orijentaciju,

as if men don't have a gender.

kao da muškarci nemaju rod.

This is one of the ways that dominant systems maintain and reproduce themselves,

Ovo je jedan od načina da se dominantni sistemi održe

i reprodukuju, što znači

which is to say the dominant group is rarely challenged

da je dominatna grupa retko izazvana da čak i razmišlja o svojoj dominantnosti

to even think about its dominance,

jer je to jedna od ključnih karakteristika

because that's one of the key characteristics of power and privilege,

snage i privilegije, mogućnost da se prolazi neispitano

the ability to go unexamined,

lacking introspection, in fact being rendered invisible, in large measure,

u nedostatku introspekcije, zapravo biti prikazan nevidljivim

u velikoj meri u raspravi

in the discourse about issues that are primarily about us.

o problemima koji se tiču prvenstveno nas.

And this is amazing how this works in domestic and sexual violence,

A takođe je neverovatno kako ovo funkcioniše

u porodičnom i seksualnom nasilju,

how men have been largely erased from so much of the conversation

kako su muškarci prilično izostavljeni

iz mnogih razgovora o temi

about a subject that is centrally about men.

koja je centralno u vezi sa njima.

And I'm going to illustrate what I'm talking about

Ilustrovaću vam ovo o čemu pričam

by using the old tech.

koristeći staru tehnologiju.

I'm old school on some fundamental regards.

Staromodan sam po pitanju osnovnih gledišta.

I make films and I work with high tech,

Pravim filmove i radim sa visokom tehnologijom

but I'm still old school as an educator,

ali sam i dalje staromodan kao nastavnik.

Želim da podelim sa vama ovu vežbu

and I want to share with you this exercise

that illustrates on the sentence-structure level

koja na nivou strukture rečenice opisuje

how the way that we think, literally the way that we use language,

kako nam način na koji razmišljamo,

doslovno način na koji koristimo svoj jezik,

pomaže da držimo našu pažnju dalje od muškaraca.

conspires to keep our attention off of men.

This is about domestic violence in particular,

Ovo je prvenstveno u vezi sa porodičnim nasiljem,

but you can plug in other analogues.

ali možete to povezati i sa ostalim analogijama.

This comes from the work of the feminist linguist Julia Penelope.

Ovo potiče od rada feminističke lingvistkinje Džulije Penelopi.

It starts with a very basic English sentence:

Počinje prostom engleskom rečenicom:

"Don je istukao Meri."

"John beat Mary."

That's a good English sentence.

To je dobra engleska rečenica.

John is the subject, beat is the verb, Mary is the object, good sentence.

Džon je subjekat. Tući je glagol.

Meri je objekat. Dobra rečenica.

Now we're going to move to the second sentence,

Preći ćemo na sledeću rečenicu,

which says the same thing in the passive voice.

koja kaže istu stvar u pasivu.

"Mary was beaten by John."

"Meri je istučena od strane Džona".

And now a whole lot has happened in one sentence.

Sada se dosta stvari desilo u jednoj rečenici.

We've gone from "John beat Mary"

Prešli smo sa "Džon je istukao Meri"

to "Mary was beaten by John."

na "Meri je istučena od strane Džona".

We've shifted our focus in one sentence from John to Mary,

Prebacili smo svoju pažnju u jednoj rečenici sa Džona na Meri

and you can see John is very close to the end of the sentence,

i kao što vidite, Džon je veoma blizu kraja rečenice,

well, close to dropping off the map of our psychic plain.

pa, skoro blizu ispadanja sa mape naše psihičke ravni.

The third sentence, John is dropped,

U trećoj rečenicai Džon je izuzet

and we have, "Mary was beaten,"

i imamo "Meri je pretučena",

and now it's all about Mary.

i sad se sve tiče Meri.

We're not even thinking about John, it's totally focused on Mary.

Čak ni ne razmišljamo o Džonu. Skroz smo usredsređeni na Meri.

Over the past generation,

Tokom prošlih generacija, termin koji smo koristili

the term we've used synonymous with "beaten" is "battered,"

kao sinonim za "pretučena" je bio: "umlaćena",

so we have "Mary was battered."

pa tako imamo "Meri je umlaćena".

And the final sentence in this sequence, flowing from the others, is,

Konačna rečenica u ovom sledu,

prateći prethodne,

"Mary is a battered woman."

je "Meri je umlaćena žena".

So now Mary's very identity -- Mary is a battered woman --

Stoga je sad Merin identitet - Meri je pretučena žena -

ono što joj je učinjeno od strane Džona u prvoj rečenici.

is what was done to her by John in the first instance.

Ali smo pokazali da je Džon odavno napustio ovu priču.

But we've demonstrated that John has long ago left the conversation.

Mi koji radimo u sektoru porodičnog i seksualnog nasilja

Those of us who work in the domestic and sexual violence field

znamo da je okrivljavanje žrtve veoma prisutno u ovoj oblasti,

know that victim-blaming is pervasive in this realm,

which is to say, blaming the person to whom something was done

odnosno, svaljivanje krivice na osobu kojoj je nešto učinjeno,

rather than the person who did it.

a ne na osobu koja je to učinila.

And we say: why do they go out with these men?

Pitamo se zašto ove žene izlaze sa ovakvim muškarcima?

Why are they attracted to them? Why do they keep going back?

Zašto ih privlače takvi muškarci?

Zašto se stalno vraćaju? Šta je nosila na žurci?

What was she wearing at that party? What a stupid thing to do.

Kakav glup postupak.

Why was she drinking with those guys in that hotel room?

Zašto je pila sa tom grupom muškaraca u toj hotelskoj sobi?

This is victim blaming, and there are many reasons for it,

Ovo je svaljivanje krivice na žrtvu i postoji veliki broj razloga za to,

but one is that our cognitive structure is set up to blame victims.

ali jedan od njih je taj da je čitava naša saznajna struktura

This is all unconscious.

podešena da krivi žrtve. To radimo nesvesno.

Our whole cognitive structure is set up to ask questions

Čitava naša saznajna struktura je podešena da postavlja pitanja

about women and women's choices and what they're doing, thinking, wearing.

o ženama i ženskim izborima i o tome šta one rade,

And I'm not going to shout down people who ask questions about women.

šta misle i oblače.

Neću ućutkivati ljude koji postavljaju pitanja o ženama.

It's a legitimate thing to ask.

Legitimno je to pitati.

But's let's be clear: Asking questions about Mary

Ali budimo načisto: postavljanje pitanja o Meri

is not going to get us anywhere in terms of preventing violence.

neće nas odvesti nigde što se tiče prevencije nasilja.

We have to ask a different set of questions.

Treba da postavljamo drugačija pitanja.

The questions are not about Mary, they're about John.

Vidite šta želim da postignem ovim, zar ne?

Pitanja se ne tiču Meri, već Džona.

They include things like, why does John beat Mary?

Ona uključuju stvari poput: zašto Džon tuče Meri?

Why is domestic violence still a big problem in the US and all over the world?

Zašto je porodično nasilje i dalje veliki problem

u Americi i čitavom svetu?

What's going on? Why do so many men abuse physically,

Šta se dešava? Zašto toliko muškaraca zlostavlja,

emotionally, verbally, and other ways,

fizički, emocionalno, verbalno i na druge načine,

the women and girls, and the men and boys, that they claim to love?

žene i devojke, muškarce i dečake za koje tvrde da ih vole?

Šta se dešava sa muškarcima?

What's going on with men?

Why do so many adult men sexually abuse little girls and boys?

Zašto toliko odraslih muškaraca seksualno zlostavlja devojčice i dečake?

Why is that a common problem in our society

Zašto je to tako čest problem u našem društvu

and all over the world today?

i širom sveta danas?

Zašto slušamo stalno iznova

Why do we hear over and over again

about new scandals erupting in major institutions

o novim skandalima koji izbijaju u velikim institucijama

like the Catholic Church or the Penn State football program

poput katoličke crkve ili fudbalskog programa države Pensilvanije

or the Boy Scouts of America, on and on and on?

ili Saveza izviđača Amerike i tako dalje, i tako dalje?

And then local communities all over the country

A onda slede i lokalne zajednice širom zemlje i sveta.

and all over the world.

Slušamo o tome sve vreme.

We hear about it all the time.

The sexual abuse of children.

Seksualno uznemiravanje dece.

What's going on with men? Why do so many men rape women

Šta se dešava sa muškarcima?

Zašto toliko muškaraca siluje žene u našem društvu i celom svetu?

in our society and around the world?

Why do so many men rape other men?

Zašto toliko muškaraca siluje druge muškarce?

What is going on with men?

Šta je to sa njima?

And then what is the role of the various institutions in our society

A šta je sa ulogom različitih institucija u našem društvu

that are helping to produce abusive men at pandemic rates?

koje potpomažu stvaranje muškaraca zlostavljača

Because this isn't about individual perpetrators.

u pandemičnim razmerama?

Jer ne radi se o individualnim zločincima.

That's a naive way to understanding what is a much deeper

Ovo je naivan način da se shvati ono što je mnogo dublji

and more systematic social problem.

i sistematičniji društveni problem.

The perpetrators aren't these monsters who crawl out of the swamp

Zločinci nisu

meka čudovišta koja izranjaju iz bare

and come into town and do their nasty business

i dolaze u grad i obavljaju svoj gnusni posao

and then retreat into the darkness.

i nestaju nazad u noć.

That's a very naive notion, right?

Ovo je veoma naivno gledište, zar ne?

Perpetrators are much more normal than that, and everyday than that.

Zločinci su mnogo običniji od toga

i svakodnevniji.

So the question is, what are we doing here in our society and in the world?

Dakle, pitanje je šta mi činimo ovde

u našem društvu i u svetu?

What are the roles of various institutions

Koje su uloge različitih institucija

in helping to produce abusive men?

u stvaranju agresivnih muškaraca?

Koja je uloga religioznih sistema verovanja,

What's the role of religious belief systems,

sportske kulture, pornografske kulture,

the sports culture, the pornography culture,

the family structure, economics, and how that intersects,

strukture porodice, ekonomije i onoga kako se to ukršta,

rase i nacionalnosti i kako se one međusobno ukrštaju?

and race and ethnicity and how that intersects?

How does all this work?

Kako sve to funkcioniše?

And then, once we start making those kinds of connections

Kad počnemo da pravimo takve veze

and asking those important and big questions,

i postavljamo ova važna i krupna pitanja,

then we can talk about how we can be transformative,

tek tada možemo da govorimo o tome kako se možemo menjati

in other words, how can we do something differently?

ili drugim rečima, kako možemo da uradimo nešto drugačije?

How can we change the practices?

Kako možemo da promenimo praksu?

How can we change the socialization of boys

Kako možemo promeniti socijalizaciju dečaka

and the definitions of manhood that lead to these current outcomes?

i definiciju muškosti koje dovode do ovakvih ishoda danas?

These are the kind of questions that we need to be asking

Ovo su neka od pitanja koja treba

da postavljamo i neki od zadataka koje treba da ispunimo

and the kind of work that we need to be doing,

but if we're endlessly focused on what women are doing and thinking

ali ako smo beskrajno fokusirani na ono što žene rade

i misle u vezama ili na nekom drugom mestu,

in relationships or elsewhere,

we're not going to get to that piece.

nećemo stići do cilja.

Razumem da dosta žena

I understand that a lot of women

who have been trying to speak out about these issues,

koje su pokušavale da govore javno o ovim problemima,

today and yesterday and for years and years,

danas, juče i godinama unazad,

often get shouted down for their efforts.

često budu ućutkane kad ulože takve napore.

They get called nasty names like "male-basher" and "man-hater,"

Nazivaju ih imenima poput: "protivnica muškaraca"

ili "mrziteljka muškaraca"

ili odvratno i uvredljivo: "feminacista". Zar ne?

and the disgusting and offensive "feminazi", right?

A znate o čemu se ovde radi?

And you know what all this is about?

It's called kill the messenger.

Zove se: ubiti glasnika.

Zato što žene koje se usprotive

It's because the women who are standing up

i govore javno u svoje ime i u ime drugih žena,

and speaking out for themselves and for other women

kao i u ime muškaraca i dečaka, za njih je naredba da

as well as for men and boys,

it's a statement to them to sit down and shut up,

sede i ćute, drže trenutno stanje takvim kakvo je

keep the current system in place,

jer ne volimo ljude koji talasaju.

because we don't like it when people rock the boat.

Ne volimo kad ljudi iskušavaju našu snagu.

We don't like it when people challenge our power.

Bolje sedi i ćuti, u suštini.

You'd better sit down and shut up, basically.

Hvala bogu da žene nisu to uradile.

And thank goodness that women haven't done that.

Hvala bogu, živimo u vremenu

Thank goodness that we live in a world

gde ima toliko ženskog vođstva koje se tome suprotstavlja.

where there's so much women's leadership that can counteract that.

Ali jedna od snažnih uloga koje muškarci mogu odigrati u ovom poslu

But one of the powerful roles that men can play in this work

je ta da možemo da kažemo neke stvari

is that we can say some things that sometimes women can't say,

koje žene ponekad ne mogu da kažu

ili, još bolje, mogu da nas čuju da govorimo neke stvari

or, better yet, we can be heard saying some things

that women often can't be heard saying.

koje se od žena ne čuju često.

Now, I appreciate that that's a problem, it's sexism, but it's the truth.

Priznajem da je to problem. To je seksizam.

Ali to je istina. Jedna od stvari koje uvek govorim muškarcima,

So one of the things that I say to men,

i moje kolege takođe,

and my colleagues and I always say this,

je da nam treba više muškaraca koji imaju hrabrosti i snage

is we need more men who have the courage and the strength

da počnu da govore neke od ovih stvari,

to start standing up and saying some of this stuff,

i da stoje uz žene, a ne protiv njih

and standing with women and not against them

pretvarajući se da je ovo nekakva

and pretending that somehow this is a battle between the sexes

bitka između polova ili neka slična glupost.

Živimo zajedno na ovom svetu.

and other kinds of nonsense.

We live in the world together.

I uzgred, jedna od stvari koja me zaista muči

And by the way, one of the things that really bothers me

u vezi sa jednim delom retorike protiv feministkinja i onih

about some of the rhetoric against feminists and others

koji su stvorili "umlaćene žene"

who have built the battered women's and rape crisis movements around the world

i pokrete protiv krize silovanja širom sveta

je da je ona nekako, kao što sam rekao, antimuška.

is that somehow, like I said, that they're anti-male.

Šta je sa dečacima koji su duboko pogođeni

What about all the boys who are profoundly affected in a negative way

na negativan način onim što odrasli muškarci rade

protiv njihovih majki i sestara, njih samih?

by what some adult man is doing against their mother, themselves, their sisters?

Šta je sa tim dečacima?

What about all those boys?

What about all the young men and boys

Šta je sa svim momcima i dečacima

who have been traumatized by adult men's violence?

koji su pretrpeli traume od nasilja odraslih muškaraca?

You know what?

Znate šta? Isti sistem proizvodi

The same system that produces men who abuse women,

i one koji zlostavljaju žene i one koji zlostavljaju druge muškarce.

produces men who abuse other men.

And if we want to talk about male victims, let's talk about male victims.

Ako želimo da govorimo o muškim žrtvama

hajde da se osvrnemo malo na njih.

Most male victims of violence are the victims of other men's violence.

Najveći broj muških žrtava nasilja su oni koje su muškarci zlostavljali.

So that's something that both women and men have in common.

To i muškarci i žene imaju zajedničko.

Svi smo žrtve muškog nasilja.

We are both victims of men's violence.

To nam je direktno u interesu,

So we have it in our direct self-interest,

da ne pominjem činjenicu da većina muškaraca koje poznajem

not to mention the fact that most men that I know

imaju žene i devojčice za koje se veoma brinemo,

have women and girls that we care deeply about,

u svojim porodicama i krugovima prijatelja i na bilo koji drugi način.

in our families and our friendship circles and every other way.

So there's so many reasons why we need men to speak out.

Tako da postoji mnogo razloga zašto muškarci treba da govore javno.

It seems obvious saying it out loud, doesn't it?

Deluje očigledno kad se to kaže. Zar ne?

Now, the nature of the work that I do and my colleagues do

Priroda posla kojim se moje kolege i ja bavimo,

in the sports culture and the US military, in schools,

u sportskoj kulturi i američkoj vojsci, u školama -

we pioneered this approach called the bystander approach

pokrenuli smo ovaj pristup koji zovemo posmatrački pristup

to gender-violence prevention.

sprečavanju rodnog nasilja.

And I just want to give you the highlights of the bystander approach,

Želim da vam istaknem karakteristike posmatračkog pristupa

jer je to veliki tematski pomak,

because it's a big thematic shift,

although there's lots of particulars,

iako postoji još puno specifičnosti,

but the heart of it is, instead of seeing men as perpetrators

ali srž ovoga je, umesto gledanja na muškarce kao na zločince

and women as victims,

i žene kao žrtve,

or women as perpetrators, men as victims,

ili žene kao zločince, a muškarce kao žrtve,

or any combination in there.

ili bilo koju od kombinacija.

I'm using the gender binary.

Koristim rodnu dvojakost.

I know there's more than men and women, there's more than male and female.

Znam da tu ima mnogo više

od muškaraca i žena, mnogo više od muškog i ženskog.

And there are women who are perpetrators,

Postoje i žene kao zločinci

i naravno muškarci kao žrtve.

and of course there are men who are victims.

To je čitav sprektar.

There's a whole spectrum.

Ali umesto dvojakog posmatranja,

But instead of seeing it in the binary fashion,

fokusiramo se na sve nas kao posmatrače,

we focus on all of us as what we call bystanders,

a posmatrač je definisan kao neko ko nije

and a bystander is defined as anybody who is not a perpetrator or a victim

zločinac ili žrtva u datoj situaciji,

in a given situation,

so in other words friends, teammates, colleagues, coworkers, family members,

drugim rečima: prijatelji, članovi tima, kolege,

članovi porodice, svi mi

those of us who are not directly involved in a dyad of abuse,

koji nismo direktno uključeni u dijadu zlostavljanja,

but we are embedded in social, family, work, school,

ali smo ukorenjeni u društvo, porodicu, posao, školu

i druge sfere kulturnih veza sa ljudima koji se mogu naći u takvoj situaciji.

and other peer culture relationships

with people who might be in that situation.

Šta mi radimo?

What do we do? How do we speak up? How do we challenge our friends?

Kako o tome govorimo? Kako preispitujemo svoje prijatelje?

How do we support our friends?

Kako ih podržavamo?

But how do we not remain silent in the face of abuse?

Kako ne ostajemo nemi na nasilje?

Now, when it comes to men and male culture,

Kada se radi o muškarcima i muškoj kulturi,

cilj je da dopremo do muškaraca koji nisu zlostavljači

the goal is to get men who are not abusive to challenge men who are.

da izazovu muškarce koji to jesu.

And when I say abusive, I don't mean just men who are beating women.

A kad kažem zlostavljači, ne mislim samo

We're not just saying a man whose friend is abusing his girlfriend

na one koji tuku žene.

Ne govorimo da muškarac čiji prijatelj

zlostavlja svoju devojku treba da zaustavi njega

needs to stop the guy at the moment of attack.

u momentu napada.

That's a naive way of creating a social change.

To je naivan način stvaranja društvenih promena.

It's along a continuum, we're trying to get men to interrupt each other.

Radi se o kontinuitetu, pokušavamo da nateramo muškarce

da prekinu jedni druge.

So, for example, if you're a guy and you're in a group of guys

Na primer, ukoliko ste muškarac i nalazite se u grupi muškaraca

playing poker, talking, hanging out, no women present,

koji igraju poker, pričaju, druže se, bez prisustva žena

and another guy says something sexist or degrading or harassing about women,

i drugi muškarac kaže nešto seksistički, degradirajuće

ili neprimereno o ženama,

umesto smejanja i pretvaranja da niste čuli to,

instead of laughing along or pretending you didn't hear it,

we need men to say, "Hey, that's not funny.

treba da postoji muškarac koji će reći: "Hej, to nije smešno.

that could be my sister you're talking about,

To bi mogla biti moja sestra o kojoj govoriš.

and could you joke about something else?

Možeš li da se šališ na račun nečeg drugog?"

Or could you talk about something else?

Ili: "Da li bi mogao da govoriš o nečemu drugom?

I don't appreciate that kind of talk."

Ne sviđa mi se ta vrsta razgovora."

Just like if you're a white person

and another white person makes a racist comment, you'd hope, I hope,

Isto kao i u situaciji kad ste belac i druga bela osoba

daje rasističke komentare, nadamo se

that white people would interrupt that racist enactment

da bi belci trebalo da prekinu

by a fellow white person.

tu rasističku priču.

Just like with heterosexism, if you're a heterosexual person

Kao i kod heteroseksualizma, ukoliko ste heteorseksualac,

and you yourself don't enact harassing or abusive behaviors

i ne ponašate se mučiteljski ili zlostavljački

towards people of varying sexual orientations,

protiv ljudi raznih seksualnih opredeljenja,

if you don't say something in the face of other heterosexual people doing that,

ako ne kažete nešto u lice drugom heteroseksualcu koji se ponaša tako,

u tom slučaju, zar nije vaše ćutanje

then, in a sense, isn't your silence a form of consent and complicity?

neka vrsta saglasnosti i saučesništva?

Well, the bystander approach is trying to give people tools

Posmatrački pristup pokušava da pruži ljudima alate

to interrupt that process and to speak up and to create a peer culture climate

kojima će prekinuti taj proces i pričati glasno o problemu

i stvoriti kulturnu klimu u vršnjačkoj grupi

where the abusive behavior will be seen as unacceptable,

gde će zlostavljanje biti viđeno kao neprihvatljivo

not just because it's illegal, but because it's wrong

ne samo zato što je ono ilegalno, već zato što je loše

and unacceptable in the peer culture.

i neprihvatljivo u vršnjačkoj kulturi.

And if we can get to the place where men

Ako bismo mogli da dođemo do nivoa gde će muškarci

who act out in sexist ways will lose status,

koji se ponašaju seksistički izgubiti svoj status,

young men and boys who act out in sexist

mladi muškarci i dečaci koji se ponašaju seksistički

and harassing ways towards girls and women,

i agresivno prema devojkama i ženama,

as well as towards other boys and men,

kao i prema drugim dečacima i muškarcima, izgubiti status kao rezultat tih radnji.

will lose status as a result of it, guess what?

We'll see a radical diminution of the abuse.

Šta će se tad desiti?

Tada ćemo videti drastično smanjenje zlostavljanja.

Because the typical perpetrator is not sick and twisted.

Jer tipičan zlostavljač nije bolestan i uvrnut.

He's a normal guy in every other way, isn't he?

On je normalan čovek u svakom drugom pogledu. Zar ne?

Now, among the many great things that Martin Luther King

Među velikim brojem sjajnih stvari koje je Martin Luter King rekao

said in his short life was,

u svom kratkom životu bilo je:

"In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies

"Na kraju, ono što će najviše boleti

nisu reči neprijatelja

but the silence of our friends."

već ćutanje naših prijatelja."

Na kraju ono što će nas najviše boleti nisu reči

In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies

naših neprijatelja već ćutanje naših prijatelja.

but the silence of our friends.

There's been an awful lot of silence in male culture

Bilo je veoma puno ćutanja u muškoj kulturi

o ovoj tekućoj tragediji muškog nasilja

about this ongoing tragedy of men's violence

against women and children, hasn't there?

nad ženama i decom, zar ne?

There's been an awful lot of silence.

Bilo je previše ćutanja.

Sve što hoću da kažem je da treba da prekinemo ćutanje

And all I'm saying is that we need to break that silence,

and we need more men to do that.

i treba nam da to učini više muškaraca.

Now, it's easier said than done,

Naravno, lakše je reći nego učiniti,

because I'm saying it now,

jer ja sad o tome govorim, ali govorim vam da nije lako

but I'm telling you it's not easy in male culture

u muškoj kulturi za muškarce da izazovu jedni druge,

for guys to challenge each other,

which is one of the reasons

što je jedan od razloga zašto

deo promene obrasca koja treba da se desi

why part of the paradigm shift that has to happen

nije samo shvatanje ovih problema kao muških,

is not just understanding these issues as men's issues,

već su oni takođe problemi vođstva za muškarce.

but they're also leadership issues for men.

Jer konačno, odgovornost za suprotstavljanje

Because ultimately, the responsibility for taking a stand on these issues

ovim problemima ne treba da padne na ramena

should not fall on the shoulders of little boys

malih dečaka, tinejdžera u srednjim školama ili studenata.

or teenage boys in high school or college men.

It should be on adult men with power.

Treba da bude odgovornost odraslih muškaraca koji imaju moć.

Adult men with power are the ones we need to be holding accountable

Odrasli koji imaju moć su oni koje treba da smatramo odgovornim

for being leaders on these issues,

because when somebody speaks up in a peer culture

za poziciju vođa u ovim problemima,

and challenges and interrupts,

jer kad neko govori javno u vršnjačkoj kulturi

he or she is being a leader, really.

i izaziva i sprečava, on ili ona

je zaista vođa, zar ne?

But on a big scale, we need more adult men with power

Ali na višem nivou, treba nam više muškaraca koji imaju moć

to start prioritizing these issues,

da počnemo da dajemo prednost ovim problemima,

and we haven't seen that yet, have we?

a to nismo još uvek videli, zar ne?

Bio sam na jednoj večeri pre nekoliko godina,

Now, I was at a dinner a number of years ago,

and I work extensively with the US military, all the services.

radim intenzivno sa američkom vojskom, sa svim službama.

I bio sam na večeri i jedna žena me je pitala,

And I was at this dinner and this woman said to me --

mislim da je smatrala da je pomalo lukava, pitala je:

I think she thought she was a little clever --

she said, "So how long have you been doing sensitivity training with the Marines?"

"Koliko dugo radite treninge osetljivosti

sa marincima?"

And I said, "With all due respect,

Rekao sam joj: "Uz svo dužno poštovanje

I don't do sensitivity training with the Marines.

ja ne radim trenige osetljivosti sa marincima.

Ja vodim program liderstva u Korpusu mornaričke pešadije."

I run a leadership program in the Marine Corps."

Now, I know it's a bit pompous, my response,

Znam da je moj odgovor pomalo pompezan,

but it's an important distinction,

ali je važna razlika, jer ne verujem

because I don't believe that what we need is sensitivity training.

da nam treba obuka osetljivosti.

We need leadership training, because, for example,

Treba nam obuka vođstva, jer, na primer,

kad profesionalni trener ili menadžer bejzbol

when a professional coach or a manager of a baseball team or a football team --

ili fudbalskog tima - a radim dosta i u tom sektoru -

and I work extensively in that realm as well --

daje seksističke komentare, homofobične izjave

makes a sexist comment, makes a homophobic statement,

makes a racist comment,

ili čak rasističke, pokrenuće se diskusije

there will be discussions on the sports blogs and in sports talk radio.

na sportskim blogovima ili sportskim radio emisijama.

And some people will say, "He needs sensitivity training."

Neki ljudi će reći: "Pa, treba nam obuka osetljivosti."

Other people will say, "Well, get off it.

A drugi će reći: "Ma ne treba.

Znate, to je besomučna politička korektnost

That's political correctness run amok,

i on je dao glupu izjavu. Produži dalje."

he made a stupid statement, move on."

Moj argument je: ne treba mu obuka osetljivosti.

My argument is, he doesn't need sensitivity training.

He needs leadership training,

Treba mu obuka o vođstvu

jer je on loš vođa, jer u društvu

because he's being a bad leader,

because in a society with gender diversity and sexual diversity --

sa rodnom i seksualnom različitošću -

(Applause)

(Aplauz) -

i rasnom i etničkom raznovrsnošći, vi dajete

and racial and ethnic diversity,

you make those kind of comments, you're failing at your leadership.

tu vrstu komentara i ne uspevate u svom vođstvu.

If we can make this point that I'm making

Kad bismo mogli da prenesemo poruku koju pokušavam da prenesem

to powerful men and women in our society

moćnim muškarcima i ženama u našem društvu

at all levels of institutional authority and power,

na svim nivoima institucionalnog autoriteta i moći,

it's going to change the paradigm of people's thinking.

promeniće se

modeli judskog razmišljanja.

You know, for example,

Na primer, radim dosta

I work a lot in college and university athletics

na atletici na koledžima i univerzitetima širom Severne Amerike.

throughout North America.

Znamo toliko o tome kako sprečiti

We know so much about how to prevent domestic and sexual violence, right?

porodično i seksualno nasilje, zar ne?

Nema izgovora za koledže i univerzitete

There's no excuse for a college or university

to not have domestic and sexual violence prevention training

da nemaju obuku sprečavanja porodičnog i seksualnog nasilja

mandated for all student athletes, coaches, administrators,

namenjenu svim studentima sportistima, trenerima, administratorima

as part of their educational process.

kao deo njihovog obrazovnog procesa.

Znamo dovoljno o tome da možemo jednostavno to da uradimo.

We know enough to know that we can easily do that.

But you know what's missing? The leadership.

Ali znate šta nedostaje? Vođstvo.

But it's not the leadership of student athletes.

Ali to nije vođstvo studenata sportista.

To je vođstvo rukovodioca sportista,

It's the leadership of the athletic director,

predsednika univerziteta, ljudi koji su odgovorni,

the president of the university, the people in charge

onih koji donose odluke o izvorima

who make decisions about resources

i onih koji odlučuju o prioritetima u institucionalnim okvirima.

and who make decisions about priorities in the institutional settings.

U većini slučajeva, to je neuspeh muškog vođstva.

That's a failure, in most cases, of men's leadership.

Look at Penn State.

Pogledajte Univerzitet u Pensilvaniji. On je najbolji od svih

Penn State is the mother of all teachable moments for the bystander approach.

momenata za podučavanje posmatračkog pristupa.

You had so many situations in that realm

Imali ste toliko situacija u toj oblasti

where men in powerful positions failed to act

gde muškarci na visokim pozicijama nisu uspeli

to protect children, in this case, boys.

da odbrane decu, u ovom slučaju dečake.

It's unbelievable, really.

Neverovatno je, zaista. Ali kad uđete u tu priču,

But when you get into it, you realize there are pressures on men.

shvatite da postoje veliki pritisci na muškarce.

There are constraints within peer cultures on men,

Postoje prepreke za njih u vršnjačkim kulturama

which is why we need to encourage men to break through those pressures.

što je razlog zašto treba da ohrabrujemo muškarce

da se odupru tim ograničenjima.

And one of the ways to do that is to say

Jedan od načina da se to učini je da se kaže

there's an awful lot of men who care deeply about these issues.

da postoji ogroman broj muškaraca kojima je stalo do tih problema.

I know this, I work with men,

Znam to. Radim sa muškarcima,

and I've been working with tens of thousands,

i radio sam sa desetinama hiljada,

hundreds of thousands of men for many decades now.

stotinama hiljada muškaraca već mnogo decenija.

It's scary, when you think about it, how many years.

Strašno je kada mislite o tome, koliko je je to godina.

But there's so many men who care deeply about these issues,

Ali tu je toliko mnogo muškaraca kojima je istinski stalo do ovih problema,

but caring deeply is not enough.

ali sama briga nije dovoljna.

We need more men with the guts,

Treba nam više muškaraca sa smelošću,

with the courage, with the strength, with the moral integrity

sa hrabrošću, snagom, moralnim integritetom

to break our complicit silence and challenge each other

da prekinu kolektivno ćutanje i izazovu jedni druge

and stand with women and not against them.

i stanu uz žene, a ne protiv njih.

Inače, mi to i dugujemo ženama.

By the way, we owe it to women.

There's no question about it.

Nema sumnje.

Ali dugujemo i svojim sinovima.

But we also owe it to our sons.

Takođe, dugujemo mladim muškarcima koji rastu

We also owe it to young men who are growing up all over the world

širom sveta u situacijama gde nisu izabrali

in situations where they didn't make the choice

da budu muškarci u kulturi koja im govori

to be a man in a culture that tells them that manhood is a certain way.

da je muškost određeni način.

They didn't make the choice.

Oni to nisu odabrali.

Mi koji imamo izbor, imamo i priliku

We that have a choice, have an opportunity and a responsibility to them as well.

i odgovornost i za njih.

I hope that, going forward, men and women,

Nadam se da će ubuduće muškarci i žene,

working together, can begin the change

radeći zajedno, moći da započnu promenu

and the transformation that will happen

i preobražaj koji će se desiti

so that future generations won't have the level of tragedy

tako da buduće generacije neće imati onaj nivo tragedije

sa kojim se mi svakodnevno borimo.

that we deal with on a daily basis.

Znam da možemo to. Možemo bolje.

I know we can do it, we can do better.

Hvala vam mnogo. (Aplauz)

Thank you very much.