Jackson Katz: Violence against women—it's a men's issue

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

翻译人员: Amber Qin 校对人员: Li Li

I'm going to share with you a paradigm-shifting perspective

我今天要与你分享

一个看待性别暴力问题的全新视角。

性侵扰，家庭暴力，男女关系暴力，

on the issues of gender violence: sexual assault, domestic violence,

relationship abuse, sexual harassment, sexual abuse of children.

性虐待，儿童性虐待。

That whole range of issues

我将这一系列的问题简短称为

that I'll refer to in shorthand as "gender violence issues,"

“性别暴力问题。”

they've been seen as women's issues that some good men help out with,

这些问题常被看作为需要男性帮助解决的女性问题，

but I have a problem with that frame and I don't accept it.

但是我觉得这个看法有问题，

并且我不认可它。

I don't see these as women's issues that some good men help out with.

我不认为这是一个需要男性助阵的女性问题。

In fact, I'm going to argue that these are men's issues,

我认为这些本质上

就是男人的问题。

first and foremost.

（鼓掌）

Now obviously --

(Applause)

Obviously, they're also women's issues, so I appreciate that,

显然，这些问题也有女性的，

这我也理解，

but calling gender violence a women's issue is part of the problem,

但是将性别暴力问题称为女性问题

是问题之一。

for a number of reasons.

原因如下：

The first is that it gives men an excuse not to pay attention, right?

首先这给了男性一个不关注的借口，对吧？

A lot of men hear the term "women's issues"

很多男人听见“女性问题”这个词，

就不以为然，觉得

and we tend to tune it out, and we think,

“嘿，我是个男人，这些是女孩子的问题”， 或者“这些是女人的问题。”

"I'm a guy; that's for the girls," or "that's for the women."

因此，很多男人在听到性别暴力这个词语的时候

And a lot of men literally don't get beyond the first sentence as a result.

就变得漠然了。

就好像我们大脑中的一个芯片被激活了，

It's almost like a chip in our brain is activated,

然后神经系统把我们的注意力带到其他方向，

and the neural pathways take our attention in a different direction

每当我们听到“女性问题”这个词的时候。

when we hear the term "women's issues."

对于“性别”这个词也是一样。

This is also true, by the way, of the word "gender,"

因为很多人听到“性别”这个词

because a lot of people hear the word "gender"

他们觉得它表示“女人”。

and they think it means "women."

所以他们觉得“性别问题”和“女性问题“是同义词。

So they think that gender issues is synonymous with women's issues.

我们对”性别“这个词存在着一些误解。

There's some confusion about the term gender.

让我来用一个例子解释这个误解。

And let me illustrate that confusion by way of analogy.

让我们来聊一下种族。

So let's talk for a moment about race.

在美国，当我们听到“种族”这个词

In the US, when we hear the word "race,"

很多人觉得它代表非裔美国人，

a lot of people think that means African-American,

拉丁美洲人，亚洲籍美国人，美洲原住民

Latino, Asian-American, Native American,

南亚人，太平洋岛人，等等。

South Asian, Pacific Islander, on and on.

A lot of people, when they hear the word "sexual orientation"

当很多人听到“性取向”这个词，

他们觉得这代表同性恋和双性恋。

think it means gay, lesbian, bisexual.

And a lot of people, when they hear the word "gender,"

还有很多人听到“性别”这个词，

他们觉它代表着“女人”。

think it means women.

在这些情况下，主流群体都没有被包括在内。

In each case, the dominant group doesn't get paid attention to.

不是吗？这就好像白人没有某种意义上的种族身份

As if white people don't have some sort of racial identity

好像属于某个种族类别或构造，

or belong to some racial category or construct,

as if heterosexual people don't have a sexual orientation,

好像异性恋者没有性取向，

as if men don't have a gender.

好像男人没有性别。

This is one of the ways that dominant systems maintain and reproduce themselves,

这是一种主流群体自我维持与自我繁育的方式。

which is to say the dominant group is rarely challenged

也就是说主流群体很少受挑战的去思考他们的主流地位。

to even think about its dominance,

这就是所谓权利与特权的一个重要特点，

because that's one of the key characteristics of power and privilege,

the ability to go unexamined,

拥有不被审查的能力，缺乏反省。

lacking introspection, in fact being rendered invisible, in large measure,

事实上，我们喜欢假装自己是透明人

虽然这些都是与我们本身有关的问题。

in the discourse about issues that are primarily about us.

And this is amazing how this works in domestic and sexual violence,

令人吃惊的是这“自我无视”的心理

在家庭性暴力和性暴力中扮演的角色。

how men have been largely erased from so much of the conversation

男人的角色变得可有可无，

虽然这明明是在一个主要关于他们的话题。

about a subject that is centrally about men.

And I'm going to illustrate what I'm talking about

在此我将用些老手法

by using the old tech.

来解释我刚才说的话。

I'm old school on some fundamental regards.

在一些基础的问题上我是很传统的。

I make films and I work with high tech,

虽然我会制作电影， 并且与高科技工作，

but I'm still old school as an educator,

但是作为一个教育者我还是传统的，

在此我想与大家分享一个

and I want to share with you this exercise

that illustrates on the sentence-structure level

解释句子构造上的练习。

how the way that we think, literally the way that we use language,

真的就是我们思考的方式。

当我们使用语言的方式去表达时，

在我们自己不知情的情况下间接地撇开了男人的注意力。

conspires to keep our attention off of men.

This is about domestic violence in particular,

这特别是关于家庭暴力的问题，

but you can plug in other analogues.

但是你可以使用类似的例子。

This comes from the work of the feminist linguist Julia Penelope.

这来自于著名的女权运动者和语言学家朱利亚佩内洛普。

It starts with a very basic English sentence:

就是一个很简单的英语句子。

"John beat Mary."

“约翰打了玛丽。”

That's a good English sentence.

这是一个正常的英语句子。

John is the subject, beat is the verb, Mary is the object, good sentence.

约翰是主题。击败是动词

玛丽是对象。好句子。

Now we're going to move to the second sentence,

让我们继续第二个句子，

基本就是同样的东西，但是是用被动式语气：

which says the same thing in the passive voice.

"Mary was beaten by John."

“玛丽被约翰打。”

And now a whole lot has happened in one sentence.

这句话里就发生了很大的一个变化。

We've gone from "John beat Mary"

我们从“约翰打玛丽。”

to "Mary was beaten by John."

换成“玛丽被约翰打。”

We've shifted our focus in one sentence from John to Mary,

我们转移我们的注意力从约翰变成玛丽，

and you can see John is very close to the end of the sentence,

还有你可以注意到约翰是位于句子的尾端。

well, close to dropping off the map of our psychic plain.

现在让我们把某些东西从我们的思想移走。

The third sentence, John is dropped,

第三句，把约翰移走，

and we have, "Mary was beaten,"

我们就会有，“玛丽被打”

and now it's all about Mary.

现在就只有玛丽了。

We're not even thinking about John, it's totally focused on Mary.

我们压根都没想到约翰。将我们的注意力完全集中在玛丽上。

Over the past generation,

在之前的年代，我们一直把“被打”这词

the term we've used synonymous with "beaten" is "battered,"

当作成"被虐待"。

然后我们就有“玛丽被虐待。”

so we have "Mary was battered."

And the final sentence in this sequence, flowing from the others, is,

如此推测，最后的句子

就会演变成为

"Mary is a battered woman."

“玛丽是个被虐待的女人。”

So now Mary's very identity -- Mary is a battered woman --

现在玛丽有个很明确的身份--玛丽是个被虐待的女人--

这是和第一句被约翰打是一样的。

is what was done to her by John in the first instance.

但是我已经论证约翰很久以前已经离开句子了。

But we've demonstrated that John has long ago left the conversation.

现在，那些探讨于家庭与性别暴力的人

Those of us who work in the domestic and sexual violence field

必须知道受害者是很容易责备的，

know that victim-blaming is pervasive in this realm,

which is to say, blaming the person to whom something was done

换句话说，就是责备受害者

rather than the person who did it.

而不是加害人。

然后我们会问，“为什么这些女人会和这些男人约会？

And we say: why do they go out with these men?

为什么她们会被这些男人吸引？

Why are they attracted to them? Why do they keep going back?

为什么她们要回去？她会穿什么出席宴会？

What was she wearing at that party? What a stupid thing to do.

这是多么愚蠢的行为？为什么她要

和一群男人在一间酒店房间喝酒？”

Why was she drinking with those guys in that hotel room?

这是责备着受害者。这存在着很多个因素，

This is victim blaming, and there are many reasons for it,

其中一个是因为我们的认知构造

but one is that our cognitive structure is set up to blame victims.

是设定于责备受害者。这全都是因为潜意识。

This is all unconscious.

我们的认知构造是设定于询问

Our whole cognitive structure is set up to ask questions

关于女人和女人的选择和她们在做什么，

about women and women's choices and what they're doing, thinking, wearing.

想什么，穿什么。

请搞清楚我不是在呼应人们不问

And I'm not going to shout down people who ask questions about women.

女人的问题。这问题是合理的。

It's a legitimate thing to ask.

但是我们要搞清楚：询问玛丽的问题

But's let's be clear: Asking questions about Mary

不会防范任何暴力问题。

is not going to get us anywhere in terms of preventing violence.

我们必须问几项问题。

We have to ask a different set of questions.

你可以明白我在如何应付这问题，对吗？

The questions are not about Mary, they're about John.

问题不在于玛丽。这都是因为约翰。

They include things like, why does John beat Mary?

问题包括，为什么约翰会打玛丽？

Why is domestic violence still a big problem in the US and all over the world?

为什么家庭暴力依然是严重的问题？

在美国和全世界？

What's going on? Why do so many men abuse physically,

这世界怎么啦？为什么那么多男人施暴，

于身体上，精神上，言语上，等等。

emotionally, verbally, and other ways,

the women and girls, and the men and boys, that they claim to love?

女人和女生，男人和男生－

他们之间的爱呢？到底男人是怎么啦？

What's going on with men?

Why do so many adult men sexually abuse little girls and boys?

为什么那么多成年男人性侵小女孩和小男孩？

Why is that a common problem in our society

为什么这是一个普通的问题？在我们的社会里

和全世界？

and all over the world today?

为什么？为什么我们重复的听到

Why do we hear over and over again

about new scandals erupting in major institutions

新的丑闻发生在主要机构？

like the Catholic Church or the Penn State football program

例如天主教教堂或者宾夕法尼亚州立大学的橄榄球节目？

或者美国的男童军，还有等等？

or the Boy Scouts of America, on and on and on?

And then local communities all over the country

然后在全国的本地社区

和全世界，对吗？我们时常听到这问题。

and all over the world.

We hear about it all the time.

The sexual abuse of children.

性虐待小孩子。

What's going on with men? Why do so many men rape women

男人到底怎么啦？为什么那么多男人强奸女人？

in our society and around the world?

在我们的社会和全世界？

Why do so many men rape other men?

为什么那么多男人强奸男人？

What is going on with men?

男人到底怎么啦？

And then what is the role of the various institutions in our society

然后不同的机构的角色是什么？

在我们的社会不断生产施虐者的男人，

that are helping to produce abusive men at pandemic rates?

而且在很高的机率？

Because this isn't about individual perpetrators.

因为这不是肇事者个人的行为。

That's a naive way to understanding what is a much deeper

这是很单纯的了解一个很深入

and more systematic social problem.

和很有系统化的社会问题。

肇事者不是那些从沼泽爬出来的妖怪，

The perpetrators aren't these monsters who crawl out of the swamp

and come into town and do their nasty business

来到城镇做些坏事，然后撤退回黑暗。

and then retreat into the darkness.

That's a very naive notion, right?

这是很单纯的想法，对吗？

Perpetrators are much more normal than that, and everyday than that.

肇事者比这更正常，更普通。

So the question is, what are we doing here in our society and in the world?

现在的问题是，我们到底在这社会和世界做着什么？

What are the roles of various institutions

不同的机构在生产施虐男人这个过程中的角色是什么？

in helping to produce abusive men?

信仰的角色是什么？

What's the role of religious belief systems,

运动文化，色情文化，

the sports culture, the pornography culture,

the family structure, economics, and how that intersects,

家庭机构，经济，这些都如何影响？

还有种族有何影响？

and race and ethnicity and how that intersects?

这全部是如何运作？

How does all this work?

And then, once we start making those kinds of connections

然后，当我们开始思考这些连接性，

and asking those important and big questions,

和问些重要的宏观问题，

then we can talk about how we can be transformative,

我们才可以探讨如何改变。

in other words, how can we do something differently?

换句话说，我们如何运作些不同的东西？

我们如何改掉行为？

How can we change the practices?

How can we change the socialization of boys

我们要如何改变男生们的交际？

and the definitions of manhood that lead to these current outcomes?

还有男人的定义如何造成现在的成果？

These are the kind of questions that we need to be asking

这些都是我们必须问的问题

和我们必须做的工作，

and the kind of work that we need to be doing,

但是如果我们不断的关注女人在做什么，在想什么

but if we're endlessly focused on what women are doing and thinking

in relationships or elsewhere,

然后再去考虑这些事件，

we're not going to get to that piece.

我们无法解决问题。

现在，我明白很多女人

I understand that a lot of women

who have been trying to speak out about these issues,

已经在尝试说出这问题，

在今天，昨天，还有很多年很多年，

today and yesterday and for years and years,

often get shouted down for their efforts.

但是她们的努力常常被压制。

They get called nasty names like "male-basher" and "man-hater,"

她们得了不雅的名称，如“攻击男人者”

和“憎恨男人者”

然后恶心和厌恶的女人主义，对吗？

and the disgusting and offensive "feminazi", right?

然后你这到这是为了什么吗？

And you know what all this is about?

It's called kill the messenger.

这叫抹杀我们的“信使”。

就是因为女人抗护她们自己的时候，

It's because the women who are standing up

在为其他女人和其他男人和小男孩说话的时候，

and speaking out for themselves and for other women

as well as for men and boys,

这就是在命令她们停下，闭嘴。

it's a statement to them to sit down and shut up,

keep the current system in place,

这就是在维护现在的系统，

because we don't like it when people rock the boat.

因为不喜欢当有人砸船。

我们不喜欢有人对抗我们的权力。

We don't like it when people challenge our power.

你最好坐下来和闭嘴。

You'd better sit down and shut up, basically.

很幸运的，女人没那么做。

And thank goodness that women haven't done that.

很幸运的，我们存在一个很多女人领袖

Thank goodness that we live in a world

where there's so much women's leadership that can counteract that.

可以互动的世界。

但是有一个角色我们男人可以做的，

But one of the powerful roles that men can play in this work

那就是我们也可以说些什么

is that we can say some things that sometimes women can't say,

女人不能说的东西。

更好的是，别人可以听到我们说一些

or, better yet, we can be heard saying some things

别人不愿意听女人说的话。

that women often can't be heard saying.

现在，我很珍惜这个是一个问题。这是性别歧视。

Now, I appreciate that that's a problem, it's sexism, but it's the truth.

但这就是事实。然后有件事我时常对男人说，

So one of the things that I say to men,

我和我的同事常这么说，

and my colleagues and I always say this,

是我们需要更多有勇气和力量的男人，

is we need more men who have the courage and the strength

站起来说这些问题，

to start standing up and saying some of this stuff,

然后与女人并肩作战而不是对抗她们，

and standing with women and not against them

或当作这是个

and pretending that somehow this is a battle between the sexes

性别之间的战斗或其他无稽的东西。

我们活在同一个世界里。

and other kinds of nonsense.

We live in the world together.

然而，最令我头痛的一件事是

And by the way, one of the things that really bothers me

那些花言巧语反对女权运动。

about some of the rhetoric against feminists and others

将那些在世界各地帮助被虐女人

who have built the battered women's and rape crisis movements around the world

提倡反强奸的活动的女性

讲成好比她们在对抗男性。

is that somehow, like I said, that they're anti-male.

想想看那些受负面影响的小男孩，

What about all the boys who are profoundly affected in a negative way

受年纪大的男人们对

他们的妈妈，姐姐和他们做出不良行为？

by what some adult man is doing against their mother, themselves, their sisters?

这些小男孩怎样呢？

What about all those boys?

What about all the young men and boys

这些年轻的小男孩

who have been traumatized by adult men's violence?

受到男人暴行影响所受到的创伤呢？

你知道吗？造就虐待女人的

You know what?

The same system that produces men who abuse women,

和造就虐待男人的是同一个系统。

produces men who abuse other men.

还有如果我们要谈男性受害者

And if we want to talk about male victims, let's talk about male victims.

－让我们谈谈男性受害者－

很多男性受害者被施暴于其他男性。

Most male victims of violence are the victims of other men's violence.

所以如果男性和女性有些共同点，

So that's something that both women and men have in common.

我们都是男性暴力下的受害者。

We are both victims of men's violence.

所以我们都有各自的目的。

So we have it in our direct self-interest,

事实上不得不说，我们知道很多男人拥有

not to mention the fact that most men that I know

我们关心的女人和女孩子。

have women and girls that we care deeply about,

在我们的家庭，我们的朋友圈子还有其他的。

in our families and our friendship circles and every other way.

So there's so many reasons why we need men to speak out.

所以有很多原因解释为什么我们需要男人提出这问题。

It seems obvious saying it out loud, doesn't it?

这看起来很明显的需要说出来。不是吗？

Now, the nature of the work that I do and my colleagues do

现在，我和我的同事正在做的是，

in the sports culture and the US military, in schools,

在传统的运动和美国军事和在学校，

we pioneered this approach called the bystander approach

我们带领着这方略名为“旁观者策略”

to gender-violence prevention.

来防止性别暴力。

And I just want to give you the highlights of the bystander approach,

还有我要特别给你们提出这策略的要点，

because it's a big thematic shift,

因为这是很大的主题改观，

although there's lots of particulars,

虽然有很多详细的要点，

but the heart of it is, instead of seeing men as perpetrators

但这中心点是，不仅仅将男人看作施虐者，

and women as victims,

女人是受害者，

or women as perpetrators, men as victims,

或女人是施虐者，男人是受害者，

or any combination in there.

或者任何一个组合。

I'm using the gender binary.

我在用着性别两极化。我知道的我们有的不仅仅是

I know there's more than men and women, there's more than male and female.

男人和女人。这世上不仅仅有男性和女性。

还有很多女人是施虐者，

And there are women who are perpetrators,

当然还有很多男人是受虐者。

and of course there are men who are victims.

这都是一系列的。

There's a whole spectrum.

但是，然而将之当作是性别两极化，

But instead of seeing it in the binary fashion,

我们注重在于我们就好比称之为旁观者，

we focus on all of us as what we call bystanders,

在这旁观者的意思是任何人在任何情况下，

and a bystander is defined as anybody who is not a perpetrator or a victim

如果不属于施虐者或被虐者，

in a given situation,

so in other words friends, teammates, colleagues, coworkers, family members,

换句话说就是朋友，队友，同事，

一起工作的，家庭成员，

those of us who are not directly involved in a dyad of abuse,

甚至是不间接有关系的人们，

but we are embedded in social, family, work, school,

但是我们在社交，家庭，工作，学校

和其他同辈传统关系中与受虐者

and other peer culture relationships

with people who might be in that situation.

都是有所关联的。我们能做什么？

What do we do? How do we speak up? How do we challenge our friends?

我们该说什么？我们如何挑战我们的朋友？

我们如何支持我们的朋友？我们如何能够

How do we support our friends?

But how do we not remain silent in the face of abuse?

在暴力面前不保持沉默？

Now, when it comes to men and male culture,

现在，当我们面对男性的传统，

我们的目的是不暴力男人也要去

the goal is to get men who are not abusive to challenge men who are.

挑战那些施虐的男人。

And when I say abusive, I don't mean just men who are beating women.

还有当我说暴力倾向，我不是只说打女人的男人。

We're not just saying a man whose friend is abusing his girlfriend

我们不是只说一个男人的朋友

正在对他女友施暴然后他需

needs to stop the guy at the moment of attack.

阻止他朋友的施暴行为。

That's a naive way of creating a social change.

这是很幼稚的改变社会的方法。

It's along a continuum, we're trying to get men to interrupt each other.

这是个长远的过程，

我们在尝试让男人们互相影响。

So, for example, if you're a guy and you're in a group of guys

所以，比方说，如果你是个男人然后和一班男人在

playing poker, talking, hanging out, no women present,

玩扑克牌，谈天，逛街，没有女人在，

and another guy says something sexist or degrading or harassing about women,

然后一些男人说一些性别歧视或贬低

或侮辱女人的话，

与其加入取笑或当做没听见，

instead of laughing along or pretending you didn't hear it,

we need men to say, "Hey, that's not funny.

我们须要男人说：“Hey，这一点都不好笑。

你知道吗，你可能是在说着我的姐姐妹妹，

that could be my sister you're talking about,

你们可说些别的笑话吗？

and could you joke about something else?

或你们可以说其它话题吗？

Or could you talk about something else?

我不赞成这类的话题。“

I don't appreciate that kind of talk."

就好象你是白人和另外一个白人

Just like if you're a white person

and another white person makes a racist comment, you'd hope, I hope,

说个种族歧视的话题，你希望，我也希望，

有个白人会打岔那个话题，

that white people would interrupt that racist enactment

by a fellow white person.

是要来自个白人。

Just like with heterosexism, if you're a heterosexual person

就好象你和异性恋的人一起，如果你是异性恋的人，

即使你不会对拥有不同性取向的人们

and you yourself don't enact harassing or abusive behaviors

towards people of varying sexual orientations,

做出些骚扰或暴力行为，

if you don't say something in the face of other heterosexual people doing that,

如果你不在其他异性恋说些东西时即使打断，

那么，照理来说，你的沉默是不是

then, in a sense, isn't your silence a form of consent and complicity?

代表着同意？

Well, the bystander approach is trying to give people tools

好的，旁观者的方法是尝试给于人们一个工具

来打岔这个过程和发言，

to interrupt that process and to speak up and to create a peer culture climate

是创造出一个

where the abusive behavior will be seen as unacceptable,

不接受暴力行为的文化。

not just because it's illegal, but because it's wrong

不是只是因为暴力是违法的，而是因为这是错的，

and unacceptable in the peer culture.

是不能被我们的文化所接受的。

And if we can get to the place where men

然后如果我们能够到达一个

男人做出性别歧视会失去地位的境界，

who act out in sexist ways will lose status,

young men and boys who act out in sexist

年轻男人和小男孩做出性别歧视的时候，

and harassing ways towards girls and women,

当他们对女人和女生，

as well as towards other boys and men,

和对其他小男生和男人骚扰的时候，

will lose status as a result of it, guess what?

他们就会会失去地位会造成，猜猜看结果会如何？

We'll see a radical diminution of the abuse.

我们会看到有效的缩减性别暴力行为。

Because the typical perpetrator is not sick and twisted.

因为普通的作犯者不是生病或性格扭曲，

在任何角度他都是个普通的男人。不是吗？

He's a normal guy in every other way, isn't he?

Now, among the many great things that Martin Luther King

在马丁路德今短短的一生中所说过所有伟大的话语，

said in his short life was,

其中有一句是：

"In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies

“最后，最令人痛心的不是

敌人的话语

but the silence of our friends."

但是我们朋友的沉默。”

最后，最痛心的不是敌人的话语

In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies

but the silence of our friends.

而是我们朋友的沉默。

There's been an awful lot of silence in male culture

现在在男人文化中已经有足够多的沉默

about this ongoing tragedy of men's violence

面对这个不断的男人对女人和孩子施暴的悲剧

against women and children, hasn't there?

不是吗？

There's been an awful lot of silence.

已经有足够的沉默了。

我只想说出的是我们需要打破这个沉默，

And all I'm saying is that we need to break that silence,

and we need more men to do that.

同时我们需要更多的男人这样做。

Now, it's easier said than done,

说是比做的容易。

because I'm saying it now,

因为我现在这样说，但我可以跟你说这不容易。

but I'm telling you it's not easy in male culture

要在男人的文化中去挑战其他的男人。

for guys to challenge each other,

which is one of the reasons

这也解释了，

所谓转移的发生

why part of the paradigm shift that has to happen

不是只是要明白男人的问题，

is not just understanding these issues as men's issues,

同时也要理解这是男人的领袖问题。

but they're also leadership issues for men.

因为最终的，在这些话题拥有立场

Because ultimately, the responsibility for taking a stand on these issues

的责任不应该落在

should not fall on the shoulders of little boys

小孩子身上，或是在高中和大学里的年轻男孩身上。

or teenage boys in high school or college men.

It should be on adult men with power.

这应该落在有权力的男人。

Adult men with power are the ones we need to be holding accountable

有权力的男人是我们必须考虑的责任人，

for being leaders on these issues,

在这个领导层面的问题上。

因为当有人要对我们的文化发言，

because when somebody speaks up in a peer culture

and challenges and interrupts,

挑战和打岔，他或她

he or she is being a leader, really.

是在作为一个领袖，对吗?

But on a big scale, we need more adult men with power

但是在于更大的事件，我们需要更多有权力的男人

to start prioritizing these issues,

开始提起这些话题，

and we haven't seen that yet, have we?

但是我们还没有看到，对吗？

当我在很多年前用晚餐时，

Now, I was at a dinner a number of years ago,

and I work extensively with the US military, all the services.

我和美国士兵有近距离工作接触。

然后我在这个晚餐然后一个女人对我说，

And I was at this dinner and this woman said to me --

-我觉得她自认为自己有点小聪明- 她说，

I think she thought she was a little clever --

she said, "So how long have you been doing sensitivity training with the Marines?"

“那么你已经和士兵们做了感性

练习有多久了？”

And I said, "With all due respect,

然后我说，“对全部人尊敬的，

I don't do sensitivity training with the Marines.

我对士兵不做感性练习

我对士兵们实行着领袖方案。”

I run a leadership program in the Marine Corps."

Now, I know it's a bit pompous, my response,

现在，我知道有点浮夸，我的回应，

but it's an important distinction,

但是这是个很大的分别，因为我不相信

because I don't believe that what we need is sensitivity training.

我们做的是感性训练。

We need leadership training, because, for example,

我们需要的是领袖训练，因为，比方说，

当一个有经验的揽球队或足球队的教练或经理

when a professional coach or a manager of a baseball team or a football team --

and I work extensively in that realm as well --

--我在满长工作在这范围--

提出性别歧视的评语，或者歧视同性恋的话题，

makes a sexist comment, makes a homophobic statement,

makes a racist comment,

说些种族歧视的评论，那就会有这些讨论

there will be discussions on the sports blogs and in sports talk radio.

登播在部落格和运动频道

And some people will say, "He needs sensitivity training."

然后有人就会说，“他需要感性训练。”

然后有人就会说，“不要说这些。

Other people will say, "Well, get off it.

你知道吗，有个政治人物疯狂了，

That's political correctness run amok,

然后他说了些傻话，继续。“

he made a stupid statement, move on."

我的论点是，他不需要感性训练。

My argument is, he doesn't need sensitivity training.

他需要领袖训练。

He needs leadership training,

因为他是个坏领袖，因为在社会中

because he's being a bad leader,

because in a society with gender diversity and sexual diversity --

有性别多元化，性取向多元化，

(Applause)

（鼓掌）-

还有种族的多元化，你做出

and racial and ethnic diversity,

you make those kind of comments, you're failing at your leadership.

那些评论，你的领导能力已经失败了。

如果我们能够做出这些论点，我说这些，

If we can make this point that I'm making

是对于全部有权力的男人和女人在我们的社会中，

to powerful men and women in our society

at all levels of institutional authority and power,

在各阶层的有权力人物，

it's going to change the paradigm of people's thinking.

这将会改变，这将会改变

人们的想法。

You know, for example,

你知道吗，比方说，我和很多

I work a lot in college and university athletics

北美的学校和大学的运动员做过工作，

throughout North America.

我们知道很多防止

We know so much about how to prevent domestic and sexual violence, right?

家庭和性别暴力，对吗？

没有借口可以给学校和大学说，

There's no excuse for a college or university

to not have domestic and sexual violence prevention training

不做防止家庭和性别暴力的训练

mandated for all student athletes, coaches, administrators,

给全部运动员学生，教练，工作人员

as part of their educational process.

作为他们一部分的教育系统。

我们已经知道很多，我们可以很容易的做。

We know enough to know that we can easily do that.

But you know what's missing? The leadership.

你知道缺少什么吗？领导能力。

But it's not the leadership of student athletes.

但是这不是学生运动员的领导能力

这是运动教练的领导能力，

It's the leadership of the athletic director,

大学会长的领导能力，

the president of the university, the people in charge

做资源决定的负责人，

who make decisions about resources

和做校园决定的负责人。

and who make decisions about priorities in the institutional settings.

这是一个失败，在很多的例案，在男人的领导能力

That's a failure, in most cases, of men's leadership.

Look at Penn State.

看看宾州州立大学。

Penn State is the mother of all teachable moments for the bystander approach.

宾州州立大学是很多旁观者方法可以学习的母亲。

You had so many situations in that realm

你会发现很多真实的情况中，

where men in powerful positions failed to act

很多有权力的男人无法保护

to protect children, in this case, boys.

他们的儿子，在这案子中，小男孩。

It's unbelievable, really.

这是很难被相信的，真的。但是当你深入了解时，

But when you get into it, you realize there are pressures on men.

你会发觉有很多压力施于男人。

There are constraints within peer cultures on men,

有些束缚发生在于男人的文化中

which is why we need to encourage men to break through those pressures.

所以我们必须鼓励男人

去突破这些压力。

And one of the ways to do that is to say

其中一个方法是说

有很多男人真的关心这些话题。

there's an awful lot of men who care deeply about these issues.

我知道这。我和这些男人一起工作。

I know this, I work with men,

还有我已经和一万个，

and I've been working with tens of thousands,

十万个男人工作了很多很多年代。

hundreds of thousands of men for many decades now.

其实停恐怖的，当我想想已经多少年了，

It's scary, when you think about it, how many years.

但是还有很多男人真的关心这些话题。

But there's so many men who care deeply about these issues,

but caring deeply is not enough.

但是仅仅关心是不够的。

We need more men with the guts,

我们需要有勇气的男人，

有胆量，有能力，有道德的

with the courage, with the strength, with the moral integrity

to break our complicit silence and challenge each other

去破解这些沉默然后挑战他们。

and stand with women and not against them.

然后和女人站在同一阵线，不是对抗她们。

但是，我们欠女人的。

By the way, we owe it to women.

There's no question about it.

这是无可否认的。

但我们也欠我们的孩子。

But we also owe it to our sons.

我们也欠成长中的男孩，

We also owe it to young men who are growing up all over the world

在世界各地的男孩，那些没有得选择的男孩，

in situations where they didn't make the choice

作为一个男人在一个文化中告诉他们

to be a man in a culture that tells them that manhood is a certain way.

男子气概是肯定的。

They didn't make the choice.

他们没得做选择。

我们有机会做这个选择。

We that have a choice, have an opportunity and a responsibility to them as well.

同时我们也对他们有责任。

I hope that, going forward, men and women,

我希望，往前看，男人和女人，

working together, can begin the change

一起工作，可以开始做出改变，

and the transformation that will happen

然后转变会发生。

so that future generations won't have the level of tragedy

然后未来的时代不会有同样的悲剧，

就好像每天在我们的生活情况下发生。

that we deal with on a daily basis.

我知道我们可以做到。我们可以做得更好。

I know we can do it, we can do better.

谢谢。（鼓掌）

Thank you very much.