Daniel H. Cohen: For argument's sake

257,748 views ใƒป 2013-08-05

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Gunpyo Lee ๊ฒ€ํ† : Damin Park
์ œ ์ด๋ฆ„์€ ๋Œ„ ์ฝ”ํ—จ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์•ž์„œ ์†Œ๊ฐœ๋œ๋Œ€๋กœ ์ €๋Š” ๊ต์ˆ˜์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:13
My name is Dan Cohen and I am an academic, as he said.
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๊ทธ ๋ง์€ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋œป์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:16
And what that means is that I argue.
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00:19
It's an important part of my life.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์€ ์ œ ์‚ถ์˜ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:21
And I like to argue.
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00:22
And I'm not just an academic, I'm a philosopher,
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์ €๋Š” ๊ต์ˆ˜์ด๋ฉด์„œ ์ฒ ํ•™์ž๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ๊ฝค๋‚˜ ์ž˜ ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
00:26
so I like to think that I'm actually pretty good at arguing.
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00:29
But I also like to think a lot about arguing.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:32
And in thinking about arguing, I've come across some puzzles.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋ฉฐ ์ €๋Š” ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ˆ˜์ˆ˜๊ป˜๋ผ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋‚ฌ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:35
And one of the puzzles is that,
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๊ทธ ์ˆ˜์ˆ˜๊ป˜๋ผ๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
00:37
as I've been thinking about arguing over the years --
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์˜ค๋žœ ์‹œ๊ฐ„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋‹ค๋ณด๋‹ˆ
์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ์ˆ˜์‹ญ ๋…„์ด ๋˜์—ˆ๊ณ  ์ œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ ์‹ค๋ ฅ์ด ๋Š˜์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
00:40
and it's been decades now --
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00:41
I've gotten better at arguing.
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00:43
But the more that I argue and the better I get at arguing,
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ๊ฑฐ์น˜๋ฉด์„œ ์‹ค๋ ฅ์ด ๋Š˜๋ฉด ๋Š˜์ˆ˜๋ก
์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ๋” ์ž์ฃผ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ง€๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์–ด์š”. ๊ทธ ์ ์ด ์ˆ˜์ˆ˜๊ป˜๋ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:47
the more that I lose.
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00:48
And that's a puzzle.
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00:50
And the other puzzle is that I'm actually okay with that.
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๋˜ ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ์ˆ˜์ˆ˜๊ป˜๋ผ๋Š” ์ €๋Š” ์ ธ๋„ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:53
Why is it that I'm okay with losing
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์™œ ์ €๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ์ง€๋”๋ผ๋„ ์‹ ๊ฒฝ ์“ฐ์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ 
00:55
and why is it that I think good arguers are actually better at losing?
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๋˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ž˜ ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด
๋” ๋งŽ์ด ์ง„๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
00:58
Well, there are some other puzzles.
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์Œ, ์ˆ˜์ˆ˜๊ป˜๋ผ๊ฐ€ ๋˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:00
One is: why do we argue?
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ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์™œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”? ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ด๋“์„ ๋ณผ๊นŒ์š”?
01:02
Who benefits from arguments?
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01:04
When I think about arguments, I'm talking about --
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„
01:06
let's call them academic arguments or cognitive arguments --
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ํ•™๋ฌธ์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด๋ผ๋˜๊ฐ€ ์ธ์ง€์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ถ€๋ฆ…์‹œ๋‹ค.
01:09
where something cognitive is at stake:
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์ธ์ง€์ ์ธ ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€์— ์„ฑํŒจ๊ฐ€ ๋‹ฌ๋ ค์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
01:11
Is this proposition true? Is this theory a good theory?
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์ด ๋ช…์ œ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ผ๊นŒ์š”? ์ด ์ด๋ก ์€ ์ข‹์€ ์ด๋ก ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
01:14
Is this a viable interpretation of the data or the text? And so on.
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์ž๋ฃŒ๋‚˜ ๋ฌธ์žฅ์—์„œ ๋„์ถœํ•œ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์ด ์‹คํ˜„ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
01:18
I'm not interested really in arguments about whose turn it is to do the dishes
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด์š”. ์ €๋Š” ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์„ค๊ฑฐ์ง€๋ฅผ ํ•  ์ฐจ๋ก€๋ผ๋˜๊ฐ€
๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์“ฐ๋ ˆ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋‚ด๋ฒ„๋ฆด ์ฐจ๋ก€์ธ์ง€๋ฅผ ๋…ผํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์—๋Š” ๊ด€์‹ฌ์ด ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:22
or who has to take out the garbage.
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01:24
Yeah, we have those arguments, too.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ์žˆ๊ธด ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ์š”.
01:26
I tend to win those arguments, because I know the tricks.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์€ ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ์ด๊ธธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”. ์š”๋ น์„ ์•Œ๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฑด ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
01:29
But those aren't the important arguments.
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์ €๋Š” ์ง€๊ธˆ ํ•™๋ฌธ์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๊ด€์‹ฌ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
01:31
I'm interested in academic arguments,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ํ˜ผ๋ž€์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šด ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:33
and here are the things that puzzle me.
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์ฒซ์งธ๋กœ, ๋›ฐ์–ด๋‚œ ๋…ผ๊ฐ๋“ค์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ด๊ธธ ๋•Œ ๋ฌด์—‡์„ ์ด๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
01:36
First, what do good arguers win when they win an argument?
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01:39
What do I win if I convince you
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๊ณต๋ฆฌ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์œค๋ฆฌ์ ์ธ ๋ฌธ์ œ์—๋Š” ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ ํ•ฉํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์‚ฌ๊ณ  ๋ฐฉ์‹์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„
01:42
that utilitarianism isn't really the right framework
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋ฏฟ๋„๋ก ์„ค๋“ํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์–ป๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ๋ญ˜๊นŒ์š”?
01:44
for thinking about ethical theories?
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01:46
What do we win when we win an argument?
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ์ด๊ฒจ์„œ ์–ป๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ๋ญ˜๊นŒ์š”?
๊ทธ๋ณด๋‹ค ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์นธํŠธ์˜ ์ด๋ก ์„ ๋ฏฟ๋Š”๋‹ค๋˜๊ฐ€
01:48
Even before that,
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01:49
what does it matter to me
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์œค๋ฆฌํ•™์ž ๋ฐ€์„ ๋”ฐ๋ผ์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ๊ฐ–๋“  ๋ง๋“ 
01:51
whether you have this idea that Kant's theory works
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์ €๋ž‘ ๋ฌด์Šจ ์ƒ๊ด€์ด์ฃ ?
01:54
or Mill is the right ethicist to follow?
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ธฐ๋Šฅ์ฃผ์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒ์ด ์ •์‹ ์„ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ ์ ํ•ฉํ•œ ์ด๋ก ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ฏฟ๋”๋ผ๋„
๊ทธ๊ฑด ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ด€ํ•  ๋ฐ”๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๋Š” ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:57
It's no skin off my back
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01:58
whether you think functionalism is a viable theory of mind.
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02:02
So why do we even try to argue?
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ๋„ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋Œ€์ฒด ์™œ ๋…ผ์Ÿํ•˜๋ ค๊ณ  ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
02:04
Why do we try to convince other people
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์™œ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„ ์„ค๋“ํ•ด์„œ
02:06
to believe things they don't want to believe,
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์ง€ ์•Š์€ ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฏฟ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค๋ ค๊ณ  ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
02:08
and is that even a nice thing to do?
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๊ณผ์—ฐ ์ข‹์€ ์ผ์ผ๊นŒ์š”? ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
02:10
Is that a nice way to treat another human being,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ ์‹ซ์–ดํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„
02:12
try and make them think something they don't want to think?
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์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ์ข‹์€ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
02:15
Well, my answer is going to make reference to three models for arguments.
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ œ ํ•ด๋‹ต์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
์„ธ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋ชจ๋ธ๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:20
The first model -- let's call it the dialectical model --
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๊ทธ ์ค‘ ์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ, ๋ณ€์ฆ๋ฒ•์  ๋ชจ๋ธ์ด๋ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
02:22
is we think of arguments as war; you know what that's like --
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ „์Ÿ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด๋ฏธ ์ž˜ ์•Œ๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹œ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
๋น„๋ช…์„ ์ง€๋ฅด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ํฌ๊ฒŒ ์†Œ๋ฆฌ์น˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด ์žฆ๊ณ 
02:25
a lot of screaming and shouting and winning and losing.
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์ŠนํŒจ๊ฐ€ ๋™๋ฐ˜๋˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
์ด๊ฑด ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๊ทธ๋‹ค์ง€ ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๋ชจ๋ธ์ด์ง€๋งŒ
02:28
That's not a very helpful model for arguing,
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02:30
but it's a pretty common and entrenched model for arguing.
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๊ฝค ์•Œ๋ ค์ ธ ์žˆ๊ณ  ํ™•๋ฆฝ๋œ ๋ชจ๋ธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:33
But there's a second model for arguing: arguments as proofs.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋ชจ๋ธ๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ฆ๋ช…ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด์ฃ .
02:36
Think of a mathematician's argument.
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์ˆ˜ํ•™์ž๋“ค์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
02:38
Here's my argument. Does it work? Is it any good?
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์ œ ์ฃผ์žฅ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด๊ฒŒ ํšจ๊ณผ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”? ์ข‹์€ ์ ์ด ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
02:41
Are the premises warranted? Are the inferences valid?
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์ „์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋‹ฌ๋ ค์žˆ๋‚˜์š”? ์ถ”๋ก  ๊ณผ์ •์ด ์œ ํšจํ•œ๊ฐ€์š”?
๊ฒฐ๋ก ์ด ์ „์ œ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋‚˜์˜จ ๊ฒƒ์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
02:46
Does the conclusion follow from the premises?
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02:48
No opposition, no adversariality --
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋„ ์—†๊ณ , ๋Œ€๋ฆฝ๋„ ์—†์ฃ .
02:51
not necessarily any arguing in the adversarial sense.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ ๊ณผ์ •์—์„œ ๋Œ€๋ฆฝ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:56
But there's a third model to keep in mind
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์•„์ฃผ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์„ธ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋ชจ๋ธ์ด ๋‚จ์•„์žˆ์ฃ .
02:58
that I think is going to be very helpful,
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ ๋„์›€์ด ๋  ๊ฑฐ๋ผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:00
and that is arguments as performances, arguments in front of an audience.
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๊ทธ๊ฑด ๊ณต์—ฐ์œผ๋กœ์„œ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ,
์ฆ‰ ์ฒญ์ค‘ ์•ž์—์„œ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด์ฃ .
03:05
We can think of a politician trying to present a position,
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์ •์น˜์ธ์ด ์ž์‹ ์˜ ์ž…์žฅ์„ ๋ฐœํ‘œํ•ด์„œ
03:08
trying to convince the audience of something.
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๋Œ€์ค‘์„ ์„ค๋“ํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
03:11
But there's another twist on this model that I really think is important;
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด ๋ชจ๋ธ์—๋Š” ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๋˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ด€์ ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:14
namely, that when we argue before an audience,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ฒญ์ค‘ ์•ž์—์„œ ๋…ผ์Ÿํ•  ๋•Œ
03:18
sometimes the audience has a more participatory role in the argument;
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๋•Œ๋•Œ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ์ฐธ์—ฌ ๋น„์ค‘์ด ํด ๋•Œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
03:22
that is, arguments are also [performances] in front of juries,
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์ด ๋ง์€, ์ฃผ์žฅ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€ ํŒ๊ฒฐ์„ ๋‚ด๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์„ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์ง“๋Š”
03:27
who make a judgment and decide the case.
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๋ฐฐ์‹ฌ์›๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ํ‰๊ฐ€๋ฐ›๋Š” ๋˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ฒญ์ค‘์ด ๋  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ด๊ฒƒ์„ ์ˆ˜์‚ฌ์  ๋ชจ๋ธ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•ฉ์‹œ๋‹ค.
03:30
Let's call this the rhetorical model,
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03:31
where you have to tailor your argument to the audience at hand.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์˜ ์ฃผ์žฅ์„ ์ž˜ ๋‹ค๋“ฌ์–ด์„œ ๋ฐฐ์‹ฌ์›๋“ค(๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ์ฒญ์ค‘)์˜ ์†์— ์ฅ์–ด์ค˜์•ผ ํ•˜์ฃ .
03:35
You know, presenting a sound, well-argued,
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์˜์–ด๋กœ ์ž˜ ์ค€๋น„ํ•œ ์—ฐ์„ค์„, ์ž˜ ์ค€๋น„๋œ ์ฃผ์žฅ์„
03:38
tight argument in English before a francophone audience
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๋ถˆ์–ด ์‚ฌ์šฉ์ž๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
03:41
just isn't going to work.
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ํšจ๊ณผ๊ฐ€ ์—†์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:43
So we have these models -- argument as war, argument as proof
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์ž, ์ด์ œ 3๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋ชจ๋ธ์„ ๋ชจ๋‘ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ์จ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ,
์ฆ๋ช…์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ, ๊ณต์—ฐ์œผ๋กœ์จ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:47
and argument as performance.
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์„ธ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ค‘์—์„œ ์ „์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ์จ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ง€๋ฐฐ์ ์ด์ฃ .
03:50
Of those three, the argument as war is the dominant one.
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03:54
It dominates how we talk about arguments,
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์ด ๋ชจ๋ธ์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ 
03:57
it dominates how we think about arguments,
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:59
and because of that, it shapes how we argue,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋…ผ์Ÿํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ๊ฒฐ์ •ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:02
our actual conduct in arguments.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ํ–‰๋™ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
04:03
Now, when we talk about arguments,
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์ž, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋งํ•  ๋•Œ
04:05
we talk in a very militaristic language.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋Œ€๋‹จํžˆ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์ ์ธ ์šฉ์–ด๋ฅผ ์“ฐ์ฃ .
04:07
We want strong arguments, arguments that have a lot of punch,
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๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ์ฃผ์žฅ, ํž˜์ด ๋งŽ์ด ์‹ค๋ฆฐ ์ฃผ์žฅ,
04:10
arguments that are right on target.
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๋ชฉํ‘œ๋ฅผ ์ •ํ™•ํžˆ ๊ณต๊ฒฉํ•˜๋Š” ์ฃผ์žฅ์„ ์›ํ•˜๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
04:12
We want to have our defenses up and our strategies all in order.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์–ด์™€ ์ „๋žต์„ ํ™•์‹คํžˆ ๊ฐ–์ถ”๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:15
We want killer arguments.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด๊ธธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:18
That's the kind of argument we want.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒŒ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์›ํ•˜๋Š” ์ฃผ์žฅ์ด์ฃ .
04:21
It is the dominant way of thinking about arguments.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์‹์˜ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ํƒœ๋„๋ฅผ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:23
When I'm talking about arguments,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋งํ•  ๋•Œ, ์•„๋งˆ๋„
04:25
that's probably what you thought of, the adversarial model.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹œ๋“ฏ์ด ๋Œ€๋ฆฝ์ ์ธ ๋ชจ๋ธ์ผ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:28
But the war metaphor,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ „์Ÿ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๋น„์œ , ์ „์Ÿ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์ธ์‹,
04:30
the war paradigm or model for thinking about arguments,
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๋˜๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๊ฐ–๋Š” ๋ชจ๋ธ์€
04:33
has, I think, deforming effects on how we argue.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ๋ณ€ํ˜•์‹œํ‚ค๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ฒซ์งธ๋กœ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ณธ์งˆ๋ณด๋‹ค ์ „๋žต์„ ์šฐ์„ ์‹œํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:37
First, it elevates tactics over substance.
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04:40
You can take a class in logic, argumentation.
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๋…ผ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ „๊ฐœํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฒ•, ๋…ผ์ฆํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ๋ฐฐ์šธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ด๊ธฐ๋ ค๊ณ  ์“ฐ๋Š”
04:43
You learn all about the subterfuges
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04:44
that people use to try and win arguments -- the false steps.
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์†์ž„์ˆ˜๋ฅผ ๋ฐฐ์šธ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”. ์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด์ฃ .
04:47
It magnifies the us-versus them aspect of it.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋Œ€ ๋‚จ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์ด๋ถ„๋ฒ•์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๊ด€์„ ํ™•๋Œ€์‹œํ‚ต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:50
It makes it adversarial; it's polarizing.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ํƒœ๋„๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ ๋Œ€์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“ค์ฃ . ์ด๋Š” ๊ทน๋‹จ์ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:54
And the only foreseeable outcomes are triumph -- glorious triumph --
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์˜ˆ์ธก ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋Š”
์Šน๋ฆฌ, ์˜๊ด‘์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šด ์Šน๋ฆฌ์ด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋น„์ฐธํ•˜๊ณ  ์ˆ˜์น˜์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šด ํŒจ๋ฐฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:00
or abject, ignominious defeat.
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05:03
I think those are deforming effects,
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ๋ณ€ํ˜•๋œ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋‚˜์œ ์ ์€
05:05
and worst of all, it seems to prevent things like negotiation
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์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ํ˜‘์ƒ์ด๋‚˜
05:08
or deliberation or compromise or collaboration.
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์ˆ™๊ณ , ํƒ€ํ˜‘,
๋˜๋Š” ํ˜‘๋ ฅ์„ ๋ง‰๋Š”๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
05:14
Think about that one -- have you ever entered an argument thinking,
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ํ•œ ๋ฒˆ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”. ํ˜น์‹œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ƒ๊ฐ์œผ๋กœ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•œ ์ ์ด ์žˆ์œผ์‹ ๊ฐ€์š”?
"์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์‹ธ์šฐ๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ์ด๋Œ์–ด๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
05:17
"Let's see if we can hash something out, rather than fight it out.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ผ์ด ๋ฌด์—‡์ผ๊นŒ์š”?"
05:20
What can we work out together?"
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05:22
I think the argument-as-war metaphor
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ์ „์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋น„์œ ๋กœ์„œ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์€
๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ์˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ฐจ๋‹จํ•ด๋ฒ„๋ฆฐ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:25
inhibits those other kinds of resolutions to argumentation.
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05:29
And finally -- this is really the worst thing --
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๋์œผ๋กœ ์ •๋ง ์ตœ์•…์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋Š”
05:32
arguments don't seem to get us anywhere; they're dead ends.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ๋” ์ด์ƒ ์ง„์ „์ด ์—†๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
๊ทธ๊ฑด ๋ง‰๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ณจ๋ชฉ์ด๊ณ  ๊ณ„์† ๋Œ๊ธฐ๋งŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋กœํ„ฐ๋ฆฌ๋‚˜
05:34
They are like roundabouts or traffic jams or gridlock in conversation.
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๊ตํ†ต ์ฒด์ฆ, ๊ตํ†ต ์ •์ฒด์™€ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:40
We don't get anywhere.
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๊ทธ ์–ด๋””๋กœ๋„ ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:42
And one more thing.
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์•„, ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋” ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ต์œก์ž๋กœ์„œ
05:43
And as an educator, this is the one that really bothers me:
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์ด๊ฒŒ ์ •๋ง ๊ณจ์น˜ ์•„ํ”ˆ ๊ฑด๋ฐ์š”.
05:46
If argument is war,
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ์ „์Ÿ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด ๊ทธ ์†์— ์ˆจ์€ ๋œป์€
05:48
then there's an implicit equation of learning with losing.
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์ง€๋Š” ๋ฒ•์„ ๋ฐฐ์šด๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
05:53
And let me explain what I mean.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ญ˜ ๋งํ•˜๊ณ ์ž ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ์„ค๋ช…๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๊ณผ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ๋ฒŒ์ธ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์ •ํ•ฉ์‹œ๋‹ค.
05:56
Suppose you and I have an argument.
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05:58
You believe a proposition, P, and I don't.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ๋ช…์ œ P๋ฅผ ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ๋ฏฟ์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:02
And I say, "Well, why do you believe P?"
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฌป์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. "์™œ P๋ฅผ ๋ฏฟ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?"
06:04
And you give me your reasons.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ๊ทธ ๊นŒ๋‹ญ์„ ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:05
And I object and say, "Well, what about ...?"
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ด์˜๋ฅผ ๋‹ฌ๋ฉด์„œ "๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋Š”์š”?"
06:08
And you answer my objection.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋‹จ ์ด์˜์— ๋‹ตํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:09
And I have a question: "Well, what do you mean?
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์งˆ๋ฌธํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. "๊ธ€์Ž„์š”. ๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๋ฌด์Šจ ๋ง์ด์ฃ ?"
06:12
How does it apply over here?"
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"์—ฌ๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ ์šฉ๋˜์ฃ ?" ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ œ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๋‹ตํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:14
And you answer my question.
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06:15
Now, suppose at the end of the day,
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์ž, ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์„ ๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด
06:17
I've objected, I've questioned,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ด์˜๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ธฐํ–ˆ๊ณ  ์งˆ๋ฌธ์„ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:19
I've raised all sorts of counter counter-considerations
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์˜จ๊ฐ– ์ข…๋ฅ˜์˜ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ ์ƒํ™ฉ์„ ๋งํ–ˆ๊ณ 
06:22
and in every case you've responded to my satisfaction.
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๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งŒ์กฑ์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šธ ๋งŒํผ ๋‹ตํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:25
And so at the end of the day, I say,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:28
"You know what? I guess you're right: P."
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"์žˆ์ž–์•„์š”. ์ €๋Š” ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์˜ณ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค."
06:32
So, I have a new belief.
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์ด์ œ ์ €๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ๋ฏฟ์Œ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์•„๋ฌด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฏฟ์Œ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
06:34
And it's not just any belief;
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์กฐ๋ฆฌ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋ช…๋˜๊ณ , ๊ฒ€ํ† ๋˜๊ณ 
06:36
it's well-articulated, examined -- it's a battle-tested belief.
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์‹ธ์›€์—์„œ ๊ฒ€์ฆ๋œ ๋ฏฟ์Œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:43
Great cognitive gain.
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์ธ์ง€์ ์ธ ์ด๋“์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ข‹์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ด๊ฒผ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
06:44
OK, who won that argument?
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06:47
Well, the war metaphor seems to force us into saying you won,
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๊ธ€์Ž„์š”. ์ „์Ÿ์ด๋ž€ ๋น„์œ ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•˜๊ฒŒ๋” ๋งŒ๋“ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋น„๋ก ๋‚˜๋งŒ ์ธ์ง€์ ์ธ ์ด๋“์„ ์–ป์—ˆ์ง€๋งŒ ๋„ค๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ฒผ์–ด.
06:51
even though I'm the only one who made any cognitive gain.
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์ €๋ฅผ ์„ค๋“ํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ธ์ง€์ ์œผ๋กœ ์–ป์€ ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ž…๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
06:54
What did you gain, cognitively, from convincing me?
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06:57
Sure, you got some pleasure out of it, maybe your ego stroked,
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๋ฌผ๋ก  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ์ด๊ฒจ์„œ ๊ธฐ์ ํ…Œ๊ณ  ์ž์กด์‹ฌ์ด ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ€๊ณ 
07:00
maybe you get some professional status
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๊ด€๋ จ ๋ถ„์•ผ์—์„œ ์ „๋ฌธ์„ฑ์„ ์–ป์„์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:02
in the field -- "This guy's a good arguer."
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์ด ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ž˜ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ตฐ.
07:05
But just from a cognitive point of view,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ธ์ง€์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ฒผ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
07:08
who was the winner?
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07:09
The war metaphor forces us into thinking that you're the winner and I lost,
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์ „์Ÿ์ด๋ž€ ๋น„์œ ๋Š”
๋„ค๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ฒผ๊ณ  ๋‚˜๋Š” ์กŒ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:14
even though I gained.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์–ป์—ˆ์Œ์—๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ตฌํ•˜๊ณ  ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
07:16
And there's something wrong with that picture.
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ์—” ์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ๊ฒŒ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•  ์ˆ˜๋งŒ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด ๊ทธ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:19
And that's the picture I really want to change if we can.
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07:21
So, how can we find ways
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ ๊ธ์ •์ ์ธ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ
07:25
to make arguments yield something positive?
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์ด๋Œ์–ด๋‚ด๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
07:29
What we need is new exit strategies for arguments.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์—๊ฒŒ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ๋น ์ ธ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ „๋žต์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:33
But we're not going to have new exit strategies for arguments
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ€๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฐพ๊ธฐ ์ „๊นŒ์ง€๋Š”
07:36
until we have new entry approaches to arguments.
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ๋น ์ ธ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ถœ๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:39
We need to think of new kinds of arguments.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ํ˜•ํƒœ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด, ๊ธ€์Ž„์š”,
07:43
In order to do that, well --
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07:45
I don't know how to do that.
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์ €๋„ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ• ์ง€ ์ž˜ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๊ฒ ์–ด์š”.
07:48
That's the bad news.
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์•ˆ ์ข‹์€ ์†Œ์‹์ด์ฃ .
07:49
The argument-as-war metaphor is just ... it's a monster.
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์ „์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ์จ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์€ ๊ดด๋ฌผ์ผ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:52
It's just taken up habitation in our mind,
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๊ทธ ๊ดด๋ฌผ์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋งˆ์Œ ์†์— ์ž๋ฆฌ ์žก์•„์„œ
07:54
and there's no magic bullet that's going to kill it.
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ ์ฃฝ์ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋งˆ๋ฒ•์˜ ์ด์•Œ์ด ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๊ฑธ ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง€๊ฒŒ ํ•  ๋งˆ์ˆ  ์ง€ํŒก์ด๋„ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:57
There's no magic wand that's going to make it disappear.
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์ €๋„ ๋‹ต์ด ์—†์–ด์š”.
08:00
I don't have an answer.
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08:01
But I have some suggestions.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ œ์•ˆ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:02
Here's my suggestion:
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์ œ ์ œ์•ˆ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:05
If we want to think of new kinds of arguments,
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์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ํ˜•ํƒœ์˜ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ๋‹ค๋ฉด
08:07
what we need to do is think of new kinds of arguers.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:11
So try this:
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์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ ํ•ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
08:14
Think of all the roles that people play in arguments.
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ๋งก๋Š” ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
08:19
There's the proponent and the opponent
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์ ๋Œ€์  ๋˜๋Š” ๋ณ€์ฆ๋ฒ•์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—๋Š”
08:22
in an adversarial, dialectical argument.
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์ง€์ง€ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๊ณผ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:24
There's the audience in rhetorical arguments.
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์ˆ˜์‚ฌ์ ์ธ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—๋Š” ๊ด€๊ฐ์ด ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”.
08:26
There's the reasoner in arguments as proofs.
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์ฆ๊ฑฐ๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—๋Š” ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:30
All these different roles.
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๋ชจ๋‘ ์„œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์—ญํ• ์ด์ฃ . ์ด์ œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ
08:32
Now, can you imagine an argument in which you are the arguer,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด๊ณ  ๋˜ํ•œ
08:35
but you're also in the audience, watching yourself argue?
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณด๋Š” ์ฒญ์ค‘์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
08:39
Can you imagine yourself watching yourself argue,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ง€๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณด๋”๋ผ๋„
๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ๋๋‚œ ๋’ค ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
08:43
losing the argument, and yet still, at the end of the argument, saying,
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"์™€, ์ •๋ง ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด์—ˆ์–ด."
08:47
"Wow, that was a good argument!"
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์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋ƒ๊ตฌ์š”. ์ €๋Š” ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:51
Can you do that?
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08:52
I think you can, and I think if you can imagine that kind of argument,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ƒ์ƒํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
08:55
where the loser says to the winner and the audience and the jury can say,
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๊ทธ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ง„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์ด๊ธด ์‚ฌ๋žŒํ•œํ…Œ
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ด€๊ฐ๊ณผ ๋ฐฐ์‹ฌ์›์ด ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:59
"Yeah, that was a good argument,"
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"์˜ˆ, ๊ทธ๊ฑด ๋ฉ‹์ง„ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค."
09:01
then you have imagined a good argument.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ์ข‹์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ์ƒ์ƒํ•œ ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
09:03
And more than that,
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ ๋„˜์–ด์„œ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€
09:04
I think you've imagined a good arguer,
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ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž๋ฅผ ์ƒ์ƒํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:06
an arguer that's worthy of the kind of arguer you should try to be.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ•ด์„œ ๋ ๋งŒํ•œ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž์ด์ฃ .
09:11
Now, I lose a lot of arguments.
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์ด์ œ ์ €๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์—์„œ ์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:14
It takes practice to become a good arguer,
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์ข‹์€ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž, ํ˜น์€
09:16
in the sense of being able to benefit from losing, but fortunately,
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์ง€๋ฉด์„œ ๋ฐฐ์šธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ž๊ฐ€ ๋˜๋ ค๋ฉด ๋งŽ์€ ํ›ˆ๋ จ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋‹คํ–‰ํžˆ๋„ ์ €๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ๋™๋ฃŒ๋“ค์ด ๊ธฐ๊บผ์ด ์ƒํ™ฉ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์„œ
09:19
I've had many, many colleagues who have been willing to step up
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์—ฐ์Šต์„ ํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋„์™€์ค๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:22
and provide that practice for me.
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09:24
Thank you.
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๊ณ ๋ง™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:25
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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