This is your brain on communication | Uri Hasson

Translator: Socorro Rodríguez Holguín Reviewer: Xusto Rodriguez

Imagine that you invented a device

Imaxinen que se inventase un aparato

that can record my memories,

que puidese gravar os meus recordos,

my dreams, my ideas,

os meus soños, as miñas ideas,

and transmit them to your brain.

e trasmitilos aos seus cerebros.

That would be a game-changing technology, right?

Sería unha tecnoloxía rompedora, non si?

But in fact, we already possess this device,

Pois o caso é que xa contamos con ese dispositivo,

and it's called human communication system

e chámase sistema de comunicación humana,

and effective storytelling.

un narrador efectivo.

To understand how this device works,

Para entender como funciona este dispositivo,

we have to look into our brains.

temos que mirar dentro do noso cerebro.

And we have to formulate the question in a slightly different manner.

E temos que formular a pregunta dun xeito lixeiramente distinto.

Now we have to ask

Temos que preguntar

how these neuron patterns in my brain

como os padróns de neuronas do meu cerebro

that are associated with my memories and ideas

asociados cos meus recordos e ideas

are transmitted into your brains.

se transmiten aos seus cerebros.

And we think there are two factors that enable us to communicate.

E cremos que hai dous factores que nos permiten comunicarnos.

First, your brain is now physically coupled to the sound wave

O primeiro, os seus cerebros están agora fisicamente acoplados ás ondas sonoras

that I'm transmitting to your brain.

que eu estou a transmitir cara a eles.

And second, we developed a common neural protocol

E o segundo, desenvolvemos un protocolo neural común

that enabled us to communicate.

que nos permite comunicarnos.

So how do we know that?

Como sabemos isto?

In my lab in Princeton,

No meu laboratorio en Princeton,

we bring people to the fMRI scanner and we scan their brains

levamos xente ao escáner de IRMf e escaneamos os seus cerebros

while they are either telling or listening to real-life stories.

mentres contan ou escoitan historias da vida real.

And to give you a sense of the stimulus we are using,

Para que se fagan unha idea dos estímulos que usamos,

let me play 20 seconds from a story that we used,

permítanme que lles presente 20 seg dun dos relatos que usamos,

told by a very talented storyteller,

narrado por un excelente contacontos,

Jim O'Grady.

Jim O'Grady.

(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good,

(Audio) Jim O'Grady: Estou a crear o meu relato e sei que vai ser bo,

and then I start to make it better --

e entón empezo facelo mellor --

(Laughter)

(Risas)

by adding an element of embellishment.

engadindo elementos que o embelecen.

Reporters call this "making shit up."

Os xornalistas chámanlle a isto "inventar da nada".

(Laughter)

(Risas)

And they recommend against crossing that line.

E aconsellan non cruzar esa liña.

But I had just seen the line crossed between a high-powered dean

Pero veño de ver como se traspasaba entre un poderoso decano

and assault with a pastry.

e un ataque cun pastel.

And I kinda liked it."

E como que me gustou."

Uri Hasson: OK, so now let's look into your brain

Uri Hasson: Ben, agora "miremos" nos seus cerebros

and see what's happening when you listen to these kinds of stories.

e vexamos que pasa cando escoitan este tipo de relatos.

And let's start simple -- let's start with one listener and one brain area:

Imos empezar polo fácil. Empecemos cun oínte e unha área cerebral:

the auditory cortex that processes the sounds that come from the ear.

o córtex auditivo, que procesa os sons que chegan ao ouvido.

And as you can see, in this particular brain area,

Como poden ver, nesta área cerebral en particular,

the responses are going up and down as the story is unfolding.

as respostas soben e baixan segundo transcorre o relato.

Now we can take these responses

Agora podemos coller esas respostas

and compare them to the responses in other listeners

e comparalas coas doutros ouvintes

in the same brain area.

na mesma área cerebral.

And we can ask:

E podemos preguntarnos:

How similar are the responses across all listeners?

En que medida as respostas de todos os ouvintes son similares?

So here you can see five listeners.

Aquí poden ver cinco ouvintes.

And we start to scan their brains before the story starts,

Empezamos a escanear os seus cerebros antes de que empece o relato,

when they're simply lying in the dark and waiting for the story to begin.

cando só están deitados ás escuras, agardando que comece a historia

As you can see,

Como poden ver,

the brain area is going up and down in each one of them,

esta área cerebral vai arriba e abaixo en todos eles,

but the responses are very different,

pero as respostas son distintas,

and not in sync.

non están sincronizadas.

However, immediately as the story is starting,

Porén, en canto o relato comeza,

something amazing is happening.

ocorre algo asombroso.

(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good,

(Audio) JO: Estou a crear o meu relato e sei que vai ser bo,

and then I start to make it --

e entón empezo a...

UH: Suddenly, you can see that the responses in all of the subjects

UH: Ei! De súpeto, poden ver que as respostas de todos os suxeitos

lock to the story,

se axustan ao relato,

and now they are going up and down in a very similar way

e agora soben e baixan de xeito moi parecido

across all listeners.

en todos os ouvintes.

And in fact, this is exactly what is happening now in your brains

E, de feito, exactamente iso está a pasar agora nos seus cerebros

when you listen to my sound speaking.

mentres escoitan as miñas palabras.

We call this effect "neural entrainment."

A isto chamámoslle efecto de "sincronización neural".

And to explain to you what is neural entrainment,

E para explicarlles o que é

let me first explain what is physical entrainment.

déixenme primeiro explicar que é a sincronización física.

So, we'll look and see five metronomes.

Miremos para estes cinco metrónomos.

Think of these five metronomes as five brains.

Imaxinen que son cinco cerebros.

And similar to the listeners before the story starts,

E igual que os ouvintes antes de que empezara o relato

these metronomes are going to click,

os metrónomos van soar,

but they're going to click out of phase.

pero van facelo fóra de fase.

(Clicking)

(Tictacs)

Now see what will happen when I connect them together

Agora vexan o que pasa cando os poño en contacto

by placing them on these two cylinders.

poñendoos enriba destes cilindros.

(Clicking)

(Tictacs)

Now these two cylinders start to rotate.

Agora os cilindros empezan a xirar.

This rotation vibration is going through the wood

A vibración da rotación transmítese pola madeira

and is going to couple all the metronomes together.

e consegue acoplar todos os metrónomos.

And now listen to the click.

Escoiten agora o tictac.

(Synchronized clicking)

(Tictac sincronizado)

This is what you call physical entrainment.

Isto é o que se chama sincronización física.

Now let's go back to the brain and ask:

Agora de volta aos cerebros, preguntémonos:

What's driving this neural entrainment?

Que é o que guía esta sincronización neural?

Is it simply the sounds that the speaker is producing?

Son, simplemente, os sons que produce o falante?

Or maybe it's the words.

ou tal vez son as palabras,

Or maybe it's the meaning that the speaker is trying to convey.

ou se cadra é o significado que o relator tenta transmtir.

So to test it, we did the following experiment.

Para poñelo a proba, fixemos os seguintes experimentos.

First, we took the story and played it backwards.

Primeiro, collemos o relato e reproducímolo ao revés.

And that preserved many of the original auditory features,

Isto preserva moitas das características auditivas orixinais,

but removed the meaning.

pero elimina o significado,

And it sounds something like that.

e vén soando así:

(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)

(Audio) JO: (Inintelixible)

And we flashed colors in the two brains

Poñemos cores nos dous cerebros

to indicate brain areas that respond very similarly across people.

para indicar as áreas que responden de modo moi similar en todo o mundo.

And as you can see,

Como poden ver, este son

this incoming sound induced entrainment or alignment in all of the brains

induce a sincronización ou aliñamento en todos os cerebros

in auditory cortices that process the sounds,

nos córtex auditivos que procesan os sons,

but it didn't spread deeper into the brain.

pero non se estende máis alá no cerebro.

Now we can take these sounds and build words out of it.

Agora podemos coller eses sons e construír palabras con eles.

So if we take Jim O'Grady and scramble the words,

Se remexemos as palabras do relato de Jim O'Grady

e sacamos unha lista de palabras.

we'll get a list of words.

(Audio) JO: ... an animal ... assorted facts ...

(Audio) JO: ... un animal... ... surtido de sucesos... e dereito

and right on ... pie man ... potentially ... my stories

home torta ... potencialmente... meus contos

UH: And you can see that these words start to induce alignment

E poden ver que estas palabras empezan a inducir un aliñamento

in early language areas, but not more than that.

nas áreas temperás da linguaxe, pero non máis alá.

Now we can take the words and start to build sentences out of them.

E agora collemos as palabras e empezamos a facer frases con elas.

(Audio) JO: And they recommend against crossing that line.

(Audio) JO: E aconsellan non cruzar ese límite.

He says: "Dear Jim, Good story. Nice details.

Di: "Prezado Jim, Un bo conto. Fermosos detalles.

Didn't she only know about him through me?"

Acaso ela non o coñecía só por min?

UH: Now you can see that the responses in all the language areas

UH: E agora poden ver que as respostas en todas as áreas lingüísticas

that process the incoming language

que procesan a linguaxe entrante

become aligned or similar across all listeners.

aparecen aliñadas ou semellantes en todos os oíntes.

However, only when we use the full, engaging, coherent story

No entanto, só cando poñemos o relato completo, interesante, coherente

do the responses spread deeper into the brain

as respostas espállanse mais

no cerebro, nas áreas de orde superior,

into higher-order areas,

which include the frontal cortex and the parietal cortex,

que inclúen o córtex frontal e o córtex parietal,

and make all of them respond very similarly.

e fan que todas elas respondan de xeito moi similar.

And we believe that these responses in higher-order areas are induced

E pensamos que estas respostas nas áreas de orde superior son inducidas

or become similar across listeners

ou se igualan en todos os ouvintes

because of the meaning conveyed by the speaker,

debido ao significado transmitido polo falante,

and not by words or sound.

e non polo son das palabras.

And if we are right, there's a strong prediction over here

E se estamos no certo, disto derívase unha sólida predición:

if I tell you the exact same ideas

se eu lles conto as mesmas ideas

using two very different sets of words,

expresadas con diferentes palabras,

your brain responses will still be similar.

as súas respostas cerebrais han ser similares.

And to test it, we did the following experiment in my lab.

Para probalo, no meu laboratorio fixemos o seguinte experimento:

We took the English story

Collemos o relato en inglés

and translated it to Russian.

e traducímolo ao ruso.

Now you have two different sounds and linguistic systems

Así teñen dous sons e sistemas lingüísticos diferentes

that convey the exact same meaning.

que transmiten o mesmo significado.

And you play the English story to the English listeners

E presentamos o relato en inglés aos ouvintes ingleses

and the Russian story to the Russian listeners,

e o relato en ruso aos ouvintes rusos,

and we can compare their responses across the groups.

e así podemos comparar as respostas nos dous grupos.

And when we did that, we didn't see responses that are similar

E cando o facemos, non vemos respostas iguais

in auditory cortices in language,

nos córtex auditivos, nas áreas lingüisticas,

because the language and sound are very different.

porque a linguaxe e os sons son moi distintos.

However, you can see that the responses in high-order areas

No entanto, poden ver que as respostas nas áreas de orde superior

were still similar across these two groups.

aínda son similares nos dous grupos.

We believe this is because they understood the story in a very similar way,

Cremos que isto se debe a que entenden o relato de xeito semellante,

as we confirmed, using a test after the story ended.

tal e como confirmamos pasándolles un test ao remate do conto.

And we think that this alignment is necessary for communication.

E pensamos que este aliñamento é necesario para a comuniciación.

For example, as you can tell,

Por exemplo, como vostedes perciben,

I am not a native English speaker.

eu non son un falante inglés nativo.

I grew up with another language,

A miña lingua materna é outra,

and the same might be for many of you in the audience.

e seguramente este é o caso de moitos de vostedes.

And still, we can communicate.

E aínda así, podemos comunicarnos.

How come?

Como?

We think we can communicate because we have this common code

Podemos comunicarnos porque temos este código común

that presents meaning.

que os presentes entendemos.

So far, I've only talked about what's happening in the listener's brain,

Polo de agora, só lles falei do que ocorre no cerebro do ouvinte,

in your brain, when you're listening to talks.

no seu cerebro, mentres escoitan o que lles conto.

But what's happening in the speaker's brain, in my brain,

Pero que ocorre no cerebro do falante, no meu,

when I'm speaking to you?

cando lles falo?

To look in the speaker's brain,

Para mirar no cerebro do falante,

we asked the speaker to go into the scanner,

pedímoslle a este que se metese no escáner,

we scan his brain

escaneamos o seu cerebro

and then compare his brain responses to the brain responses of the listeners

e comparamos as súas respostas cerebrais coas dos ouvintes

listening to the story.

que estaban a oír o relato.

You have to remember that producing speech and comprehending speech

Teñen que lembrar que a produción e a comprensión da fala

are very different processes.

son procesos moi distintos.

Here we're asking: How similar are they?

E aquí preguntámonos: Canto se parecen?

To our surprise,

Para a nosa sorpresa,

we saw that all these complex patterns within the listeners

vimos que todos estes complexos padróns de resposta nos ouvintes

actually came from the speaker brain.

en realidade veñen do cerebro do falante.

So production and comprehension rely on very similar processes.

Así que a produción e a comprensión asentan en procesos moi similares.

And we also found

E tamén atopamos

the stronger the similarity between the listener's brain

que canto máis semellanza hai entre o cerebro do ouvinte

and the speaker's brain,

e o do falante,

the better the communication.

mellor é a comunicación.

So I know that if you are completely confused now,

Deste xeito, sei que se vostedes están agora totalmente confusos,

and I do hope that this is not the case,

e agardo que non sexa así,

your brain responses are very different than mine.

as súas respostas cerebrais serán distintas das miñas.

But I also know that if you really understand me now,

Pero tamén sei que se realmente están a me entender,

then your brain ... and your brain ... and your brain

entón o seu cerebro... e o seu... e o seu...

are really similar to mine.

son moi similares ao meu.

Now, let's take all this information together and ask:

Agora xuntemos toda esta información e preguntémonos:

How can we use it to transmit a memory that I have

Como podo usala para transmitir un recordo meu

from my brain to your brains?

desde o meu cerebro aos seus?

So we did the following experiment.

Así que fixemos o seguinte experimento.

We let people watch, for the first time in their life,

Puxemos xente a ver, por primeira vez na súa vida,

a TV episode from the BBC series "Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.

un capítulo da serie "Sherlock" da BBC, mentres escaneábamos os seus cerebros.

And then we asked them to go back to the scanner

Logo pedímoslles que volveran meterse no escáner

and tell the story to another person that never watched the movie.

e lle contaran a historia a outra persoa que nunca vira a serie.

So let's be specific.

Concretemos.

Think about this exact scene,

Pensen nesta escena,

when Sherlock is entering the cab in London

cando Sherlock entra en Londres no taxi

driven by the murderer he is looking for.

conducido polo asasino que está a buscar.

With me, as a viewer,

Se eu son o espectador,

there is a specific brain pattern in my brain when I watch it.

hai un padrón específico no meu cerebro cando a estou a ver.

Now, the exact same pattern, I can reactivate in my brain again

Pois podo reactivar ese mesmo padrón no meu cerebro de novo

by telling the word: Sherlock, London, murderer.

dicindo as palabras: Sherlock, Londres, asasino.

And when I'm transmitting these words to your brains now,

E agora, cando transmito estas palabras aos seus cerebros,

you have to reconstruct it in your mind.

vostedes poden reconstruílo na súa mente.

In fact, we see that pattern emerging now in your brains.

De feito, vemos estes padróns emerxendo nos seus cerebros.

And we were really surprised to see

E quedariamos abraiados ao ver

that the pattern you have now in your brains

que o padrón que teñen agora nos seus cerebros

when I'm describing to you these scenes

cando lles describo estas escenas

would be very similar to the pattern I had when I watched this movie

sería moi semellante ao que tiña eu mentres vía a película

a few months ago in the scanner.

hai uns meses, dentro do escáner.

This starts to tell you about the mechanism

Isto empeza a explicarlles o mecanismo

by which we can tell stories and transmit information.

polo que podemos contar historias e transmitir información.

Because, for example,

Porque, por exemplo,

now you're listening really hard and trying to understand what I'm saying.

agora están a escoitar atentos e tratan de entender o que lles conto.

And I know that it's not easy.

E ben sei que non é doado.

But I hope that at one point in the talk we clicked, and you got me.

Pero agardo que nun momento dado na charla nos conectemos, e me sigan.

And I think that in a few hours, a few days, a few months,

E creo que dentro dunhas horas, uns días, uns meses,

you're going to meet someone at a party,

atoparán a alguén nunha festa,

and you're going to tell him about this lecture,

e falaranlle desta charla,

and suddenly it will be as if he is standing now here with us.

e de súpeto, será como se esa persoa estivese agora connosco.

Now you can see how we can take this mechanism

Así poden ver como podemos usar este mecanismo

and try to transmit memories and knowledge across people,

e tratar de transmitirlles recordos e coñecementos á xente,

which is wonderful, right?

o que é marabilloso, non si?

But our ability to communicate relies on our ability

Pero a nosa capacidade para comunicar aséntase na nosa capacidade

to have common ground.

para ter unha base común.

Because, for example,

Porque, por exemplo,

if I'm going to use the British synonym

se chego a usar o sinónimo

"hackney carriage" instead of "cab,"

"coche con condutor" no canto de "taxi",

I know that I'm going to be misaligned with most of you in the audience.

seguro que me perdería o aliñamento con moitos de vostedes, da audiencia.

This alignment depends not only on our ability

Este aliñamento depende non só da nosa capacidade

to understand the basic concept;

para comprender o concepto básico;

it also depends on our ability to develop common ground and understanding

tamén da capacidade para desenvolver unha base común

and shared belief systems.

e entender e compartir o sistema de crenzas.

Because we know that in many cases,

Porque sabemos que en moitos casos,

people understand the exact same story in very different ways.

a xente entende de modos distintos a mesma historia.

So to test it in the lab, we did the following experiment.

Para poñelo a proba no laboratorio, fixemos o seguinte experimento.

We took a story by J.D. Salinger,

Collimos un relato de J.D. Salinger,

in which a husband lost track of his wife in the middle of a party,

no que un home lle perde a pista á súa muller durante unha festa,

and he's calling his best friend, asking, "Did you see my wife?"

e chama ao seu mellor amigo e pregúntalle, "Viches á miña muller?"

For half of the subjects,

Á métade dos suxeitos

we said that the wife was having an affair with the best friend.

dixémoslles que a muller estaba a ter unha aventura co mellor amigo.

For the other half,

Á outra metade,

we said that the wife is loyal and the husband is very jealous.

dixémoslles que a muller era fiel e o home moi ciumento.

This one sentence before the story started

Esta única frase antes de empezar o relato

was enough to make the brain responses

abondou para que as respostas cerebrais

of all the people that believed the wife was having an affair

dos que crían que a muller estaba a ter unha aventura

be very similar in these high-order areas

fosen moi similares nestas áreas de orde superior

and different than the other group.

e diferentes das do outro grupo.

And if one sentence is enough to make your brain similar

E se unha frase abonda para facer que os seus cerebros se parezan

to people that think like you

aos da xente que pensa coma vostedes

and very different than people that think differently than you,

e se diferencien de quen pensa distinto,

think how this effect is going to be amplified in real life,

pensen en como se amplificará este efecto na vida real,

when we are all listening to the exact same news item

onde todos escoitamos exactamente as mesmas noticias

after being exposed day after day after day

despois de estarmos expostos día tras día

a diferentes medios de comunicación,

to different media channels, like Fox News or The New York Times,

como os informativos da Fox ou o New York Times,

that give us very different perspectives on reality.

que nos dan perspectivas moi distintas da realidade.

So let me summarize.

Resumamos.

If everything worked as planned tonight,

Se todo funciona como planeei esta noite,

I used my ability to vocalize sound to be coupled to your brains.

usei a miña capacidade de vocalización para acoplarme cos seus cerebros.

And I used this coupling

E usei este acoplamento

to transmit my brain patterns associated with my memories and ideas

para transmitir os meus padróns cerebrais asociados cos meus recordos e ideas

into your brains.

aos seus cerebros.

In this, I start to reveal the hidden neural mechanism

Con isto, empezo a revelar o mecanismo neural oculto

by which we communicate.

polo que nos comunicamos.

And we know that in the future it will enable us to improve

E sabemos que no futuro isto hanos permitir mellorar

and facilitate communication.

e facilitar a comunicación.

But these studies also reveal

Pero estes estudos tamén revelan

that communication relies on a common ground.

que a comunicación asenta nunha base común.

And we have to be really worried as a society

E como sociedade temos que preocuparnos

if we lose this common ground and our ability to speak with people

de se perdemos esta base común e a nosa capacidade para falar coa xente

that are slightly different than us

que é lixeiramente diferente a nós

because we let a few very strong media channels

porque deixamos que uns poucos e poderosos medios de comunicación

take control of the mic,

teñan o control do micrófono,

and manipulate and control the way we all think.

e manipulen e controlen a nosa forma de pensar.

And I'm not sure how to fix it because I'm only a scientist.

Eu non estou certo de como amañar isto, porque só son un científico.

But maybe one way to do it

Pero tal vez un xeito de facelo

is to go back to the more natural way of communication,

sexa volver á forma mais natural de comunicación,

which is a dialogue,

que é o diálogo,

in which it's not only me speaking to you now,

que non son só eu falándolles a vostedes,

but a more natural way of talking,

senón unha forma máis natural de conversar,

in which I am speaking and I am listening,

na que falo e escoito,

and together we are trying to come to a common ground and new ideas.

e xuntos tratamos de chegar a unha base común e a novas ideas.

Because after all,

Porque ao fin,

the people we are coupled to define who we are.

as persoas coas que estamos acoplados definen quen somos.

And our desire to be coupled to another brain

E o noso desexo de estar acoplados a outro cerebro

is something very basic that starts at a very early age.

é algo moi básico, que aparece a unha idade moi temperá.

So let me finish with an example from my own private life

Así que déixenme rematar cun exemplo da miña vida privada

that I think is a good example of how coupling to other people

que penso que é amosa ben como acoplarnos con outros

is really going to define who we are.

realmente define quen somos.

This my son Jonathan at a very early age.

Este é o meu fillo Jonathan cando era moi noviño.

See how he developed a vocal game together with my wife,

Miren como desenvolve un xogo vocal coa miña muller,

only from the desire and pure joy of being coupled to another human being.

só por xogo e polo puro desexo de estar acoplado con outro ser humano.

(Both vocalizing)

(Os dous vocalizando)

(Laughter)

(Risas)

Now, think how the ability of my son

Agora, pensen como a capacidade do meu fillo

to be coupled to us and other people in his life

de acoplarse con nós e con outra xente na súa vida

is going to shape the man he is going to become.

vai dar forma ao home que chegará a ser no futuro.

And think how you change on a daily basis

E pensen en como vostedes cambian diariamente

from the interaction and coupling to other people in your life.

mediante a interacción e o acoplamento con outras persoas na súa vida.

So keep being coupled to other people.

Sigan a acoplarse con outras persoas, a espallar as súas ideas,

Keep spreading your ideas,

because the sum of all of us together, coupled,

porque a suma de todos nós xuntos, acoplados,

is greater than our parts.

é maior que as nosas partes.

Thank you.

Grazas.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)