This is your brain on communication | Uri Hasson

翻译人员: Haoliang Chen 校对人员: 易帆 余

Imagine that you invented a device

想象一下你发明了一个设备，

that can record my memories,

可以记录我的记忆、

my dreams, my ideas,

我的梦想、我的想法，

and transmit them to your brain.

并把它们传输到你的大脑里。

That would be a game-changing technology, right?

那将是改变世界的新科技，对吧?

But in fact, we already possess this device,

但事实上，我们已经拥有了这样的设备，

and it's called human communication system

它被称作＂人类沟通系统＂

and effective storytelling.

和＂有效的故事叙述＂。

To understand how this device works,

为理解这个设备的运作方式，

we have to look into our brains.

我们必须对大脑进行一番研究。

And we have to formulate the question in a slightly different manner.

并且稍稍改变提问的方向。

Now we have to ask

我们改问：

how these neuron patterns in my brain

我大脑中那些

that are associated with my memories and ideas

与我的记忆和想法相关的神经元，

are transmitted into your brains.

是如何被传输到你的大脑里的？

And we think there are two factors that enable us to communicate.

我们认为，有两个因素促成沟通。

First, your brain is now physically coupled to the sound wave

首先，你的大脑在物理层面上

that I'm transmitting to your brain.

与我正在传输的声波耦合。

And second, we developed a common neural protocol

其次，我们有共通的神经通讯协定

that enabled us to communicate.

使我们能够沟通。

So how do we know that?

那么，我们是如何知道的呢？

In my lab in Princeton,

在我的普林斯顿实验室里，

we bring people to the fMRI scanner and we scan their brains

我们对受测者进行 功能性核磁共振仪扫描，

while they are either telling or listening to real-life stories.

就在他们讲述或聆听真实故事时， 扫描他们的大脑。

And to give you a sense of the stimulus we are using,

为了让你们了解我们所使用的刺激物，

let me play 20 seconds from a story that we used,

我从一段故事中截取了20秒来播放，

told by a very talented storyteller,

这是来自一位 非常有才华的故事讲述者

Jim O'Grady.

名为 Jim O'Grady。

(Audio) Jim O'Grady: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good,

（音频）Jim O'Grady：我现在要 大声说出我的故事，因为很好笑，

and then I start to make it better --

然后为了让故事更生动--

(Laughter)

（笑）

by adding an element of embellishment.

我会稍微地加油添醋，

Reporters call this "making shit up."

记者们称之为“忽悠”

(Laughter)

（笑）

And they recommend against crossing that line.

他们建议不要越过那条线，

But I had just seen the line crossed between a high-powered dean

但我刚看见糕点飞过那条线，

and assault with a pastry.

砸在院长大人的脸上。

And I kinda liked it."

我还挺开心的。

Uri Hasson: OK, so now let's look into your brain

尤里.哈森：好，现在我们来观察你的大脑

and see what's happening when you listen to these kinds of stories.

看看当你听这类故事时发生了什么。

And let's start simple -- let's start with one listener and one brain area:

一开始我们先简单点—— 从一位受测听众的大脑区域开始：

the auditory cortex that processes the sounds that come from the ear.

处理耳朵听到的声音的 听觉大脑皮层。

And as you can see, in this particular brain area,

如你所见，这特定区域的脑波

the responses are going up and down as the story is unfolding.

会随着故事的进展而上下波动。

Now we can take these responses

现在我们把这些反应

and compare them to the responses in other listeners

和其他受测听众 同一大脑区域内的反应

in the same brain area.

进行比较。

And we can ask:

我们会问：

How similar are the responses across all listeners?

所有受测听众的反应有多相似呢？

So here you can see five listeners.

可以看到这五位受测者的脑波。

And we start to scan their brains before the story starts,

在故事展开前， 我们就开始扫描他们的大脑，

when they're simply lying in the dark and waiting for the story to begin.

当时他们只是躺在黑暗中， 等待故事开始。

As you can see,

正如你们所见，

the brain area is going up and down in each one of them,

他们每个人的大脑区域里都有起伏，

but the responses are very different,

但是反应却非常不同，

and not in sync.

而且不同步。

However, immediately as the story is starting,

然而，就在故事开始后，

something amazing is happening.

一些神奇的事情发生了。

(Audio) JO: So I'm banging out my story and I know it's good,

（音频） JO：我现在要 大声说出我的故事，因为很好笑，

and then I start to make it --

然后为了让故事更生动--

UH: Suddenly, you can see that the responses in all of the subjects

UH：突然间，所有人的脑波回应

lock to the story,

都随着故事的进展而上上下下，

and now they are going up and down in a very similar way

波型都很类似。

across all listeners.

And in fact, this is exactly what is happening now in your brains

事实上，各位听我讲话的时候

when you listen to my sound speaking.

这种现象也正在你的大脑里发生；

We call this effect "neural entrainment."

我们把这个效应称作 “神经振荡同步化”

And to explain to you what is neural entrainment,

为了解释“神经振荡同步化”

let me first explain what is physical entrainment.

我先来解释一下什么是“物理震盪同步化“

So, we'll look and see five metronomes.

我们来看看这 5 个节拍器，

Think of these five metronomes as five brains.

想象这5个节拍器是 5 个大脑。

And similar to the listeners before the story starts,

和故事开始前的 5 位受测听众一样，

these metronomes are going to click,

这五个节拍器会开始打拍子，

but they're going to click out of phase.

但并不同步。

(Clicking)

（咔哒咔哒……）

Now see what will happen when I connect them together

现在来看一下， 当我把它们放在这两个圆筒上，

by placing them on these two cylinders.

把它们连起来，会发生什么。

(Clicking)

（咔哒咔哒……）

Now these two cylinders start to rotate.

现在这两个圆筒开始滚动，

This rotation vibration is going through the wood

这种旋转振动贯穿整块木板，

and is going to couple all the metronomes together.

把所有节拍器同步在一起，

And now listen to the click.

现在来听听咔哒声。

(Synchronized clicking)

（同步的咔哒咔哒声……）

This is what you call physical entrainment.

这就是所谓的物理震盪同步化。

Now let's go back to the brain and ask:

现在让我们回到大脑， 问一个问题：

What's driving this neural entrainment?

是什么在驱动神经振荡同步化？

Is it simply the sounds that the speaker is producing?

是说话者发出的声音？

Or maybe it's the words.

还是所说的字彙？

Or maybe it's the meaning that the speaker is trying to convey.

还是说话者试图传达的意思？

So to test it, we did the following experiment.

为了测试，我们做了以下实验。

First, we took the story and played it backwards.

首先，我们倒退播放这个故事，

And that preserved many of the original auditory features,

这保留了很多原有的听觉特征，

but removed the meaning.

但失去了含义，

And it sounds something like that.

听起来就像是这样：

(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)

（音频）JO：（不知所云）

And we flashed colors in the two brains

我们在两个大脑裡，用闪现的颜色

to indicate brain areas that respond very similarly across people.

来标示受测者间 相似脑区块的回应。

And as you can see,

正如你们所见，

this incoming sound induced entrainment or alignment in all of the brains

诱使所有受测者大脑内 处理声音的听觉皮层，全都同步了；

in auditory cortices that process the sounds,

but it didn't spread deeper into the brain.

但没有扩散到大脑深层区域。

Now we can take these sounds and build words out of it.

现在，我们用这些声音来构建文字。

So if we take Jim O'Grady and scramble the words,

如果我们用 Jim O'Grady 的声音 把文字胡乱拼凑在一起，

we'll get a list of words.

我们会得到一系列文字

(Audio) JO: ... an animal ... assorted facts ...

（音频）JO: ... 一只动物.... 各种各样的事实

and right on ... pie man ... potentially ... my stories

正在...卖馅饼的人... 可能...我的故事。

UH: And you can see that these words start to induce alignment

UH：你可以看到这些文字 开始引起

in early language areas, but not more than that.

早期语言区域的校准， 但也仅仅如此。

Now we can take the words and start to build sentences out of them.

现在，我们可以使用文字来组建句子。

(Audio) JO: And they recommend against crossing that line.

（吉姆·雷迪的声音） 他们建议不要逾越那条线。

He says: "Dear Jim, Good story. Nice details.

他说：“亲爱的 Jim 故事不错，细节很棒。

Didn't she only know about him through me?"

难道她不是通过我才认识他的吗？“

UH: Now you can see that the responses in all the language areas

UH：现在你可以看到 在所有受测者中

that process the incoming language

在处理输入语言的所有语言区域，

become aligned or similar across all listeners.

他们的反应变得整齐或相似。

However, only when we use the full, engaging, coherent story

然而，只有当我们使用完整、 动人、连贯的故事时，

do the responses spread deeper into the brain

反应才会进入大脑深层区域

into higher-order areas,

和高阶区域，

which include the frontal cortex and the parietal cortex,

其中包括额叶皮层和顶叶皮层。

and make all of them respond very similarly.

从而令所有人 都出现非常相似的反应。

And we believe that these responses in higher-order areas are induced

我们认为，这些高阶区域内的反应 之所以能被诱发，

or become similar across listeners

或能在不同受测听众之间变得相似，

because of the meaning conveyed by the speaker,

是因为讲话者所传达的含义，

and not by words or sound.

而不是文字或声音。

And if we are right, there's a strong prediction over here

如果我们猜想正确， 那就有一种很可能出现的情况，

if I tell you the exact same ideas

如果我使用两种 截然不同的语言组合

using two very different sets of words,

告诉你同样的想法，

your brain responses will still be similar.

你的大脑反应仍然是相似的。

And to test it, we did the following experiment in my lab.

为了检验这种情况， 我们在我的实验室里做了以下实验。

We took the English story

我们把这个英语故事

and translated it to Russian.

翻译成俄语。

Now you have two different sounds and linguistic systems

现在有了两种不同的 声音和语言系统，

that convey the exact same meaning.

它们传达的意思则完全相同。

And you play the English story to the English listeners

你向英语听众播放英语故事，

and the Russian story to the Russian listeners,

向俄语听众播放俄语故事。

and we can compare their responses across the groups.

我们比较这两组听众的反应。

And when we did that, we didn't see responses that are similar

当这样做的时候， 我们没有在听觉皮层

in auditory cortices in language,

看到相似的反应。

because the language and sound are very different.

因为语言和声音差异很大。

However, you can see that the responses in high-order areas

但是，两组的高阶区域 的反应仍然相似。

were still similar across these two groups.

We believe this is because they understood the story in a very similar way,

我们认为 ，这是因为 他们理解故事的方式非常相似

as we confirmed, using a test after the story ended.

故事结束后的一个测试 验证了我们的想法。

And we think that this alignment is necessary for communication.

我们认为， 这种校准对于沟通是必要的。

For example, as you can tell,

举个例子，你们都听得出来

I am not a native English speaker.

英语并不是我的母语。

I grew up with another language,

我在另一种语言中成长

and the same might be for many of you in the audience.

你们当中很多人可能也是如此。

And still, we can communicate.

但我们依然可以沟通

How come?

为什么？

We think we can communicate because we have this common code

我们认为，我们之所以能沟通 是因为我们有这种

that presents meaning.

呈现含义的通用代码。

So far, I've only talked about what's happening in the listener's brain,

到目前为止，我只谈到听众大脑中 所发生的情形，

in your brain, when you're listening to talks.

当你聆听的时候 你的大脑中所发生的情形。

But what's happening in the speaker's brain, in my brain,

但演讲者的大脑中发生了什么？

when I'm speaking to you?

当我对你们说话的时候 我的大脑中发生了什么？

To look in the speaker's brain,

为了观察演讲者的大脑，

we asked the speaker to go into the scanner,

我们让演讲者接受扫描，

we scan his brain

我们扫描了他的大脑，

and then compare his brain responses to the brain responses of the listeners

然后把他的大脑反应 和听众听故事时的大脑反应

listening to the story.

进行比较。

You have to remember that producing speech and comprehending speech

你们要记住，发表演讲和理解演讲

are very different processes.

是截然不同的过程。

Here we're asking: How similar are they?

我们问的是：它们有多相似？

To our surprise,

令我们惊讶的是，

we saw that all these complex patterns within the listeners

我们看到，受测听众之间 产生的所有这些复杂模式，

actually came from the speaker brain.

实际上都源自演讲者的大脑。

So production and comprehension rely on very similar processes.

所以，产出和理解 所倚赖的过程非常相似。

And we also found

我们还发现

the stronger the similarity between the listener's brain

受测者大脑和讲者大脑之间的

and the speaker's brain,

相似度越高，

the better the communication.

沟通效果越佳。

So I know that if you are completely confused now,

所以我知道，如果你们 现在完全听不懂我的话，

and I do hope that this is not the case,

——我希望不会出现这种情况

your brain responses are very different than mine.

你们的大脑反应 就会与我的非常不同。

But I also know that if you really understand me now,

但我也知道， 如果你们现在真的理解我的话，

then your brain ... and your brain ... and your brain

你的大脑…你的大脑… 还有你的大脑

are really similar to mine.

就会与我的非常相似。

Now, let's take all this information together and ask:

现在，我们把所有信息 结合起来，问一个问题：

How can we use it to transmit a memory that I have

我们该如何利用它

from my brain to your brains?

把我大脑中的记忆 传递到你们的大脑中？

So we did the following experiment.

于是我们做了以下实验，

We let people watch, for the first time in their life,

我们让人们首次观看BBC 连续剧 《神探夏洛克》中的一个片段，

a TV episode from the BBC series "Sherlock," while we scanned their brains.

同时扫描他们的大脑。

And then we asked them to go back to the scanner

然后我们让他们回到扫描仪前

and tell the story to another person that never watched the movie.

把故事讲给另一个 从没看过这部电影的人听。

So let's be specific.

具体来说，

Think about this exact scene,

想象这个特定的场景，

when Sherlock is entering the cab in London

夏洛克进入伦敦的一辆出租车，

driven by the murderer he is looking for.

司机是他正在寻找的杀人凶手。

With me, as a viewer,

对我而言，作为一名观看者，

there is a specific brain pattern in my brain when I watch it.

当我看的时候， 我的大脑中有一个特定的大脑模式。

Now, the exact same pattern, I can reactivate in my brain again

现在，通过讲述以下几个词语 我可以再次在大脑中重新激活

by telling the word: Sherlock, London, murderer.

这个完全相同的模式： 夏洛克、伦敦、杀人凶手。

And when I'm transmitting these words to your brains now,

当我现在把这些词语传达到你的大脑时，

you have to reconstruct it in your mind.

你得在自己的思维中进行重建。

In fact, we see that pattern emerging now in your brains.

实际上，我们能看到你们的大脑中 现在出现的模式。

And we were really surprised to see

我们非常惊讶地看到，

that the pattern you have now in your brains

当我向你描述这些场景的时候，

when I'm describing to you these scenes

你的大脑中现在呈现的模式

would be very similar to the pattern I had when I watched this movie

与我几个月前看这部电影时

a few months ago in the scanner.

扫描仪中显现的我的大脑模式 非常相似。

This starts to tell you about the mechanism

这开始告诉你们， 我们讲故事和传递信息

by which we can tell stories and transmit information.

所倚赖的机制。

Because, for example,

因为，举个例子来说，

now you're listening really hard and trying to understand what I'm saying.

现在你们听得非常努力， 尝试理解我所说的话。

And I know that it's not easy.

我知道这并不容易。

But I hope that at one point in the talk we clicked, and you got me.

但我希望，到了对话中的某个时刻， 我们能豁然开朗，你们能明白我的意思。

And I think that in a few hours, a few days, a few months,

我觉得，在几个小时后，几天后，几个月后，

you're going to meet someone at a party,

当你们在派对上遇到某个人，

and you're going to tell him about this lecture,

你会告诉他这次演讲的内容，

and suddenly it will be as if he is standing now here with us.

突然间，他好像就站在这里， 和我们在一起。

Now you can see how we can take this mechanism

现在你们可以看到， 我们如何利用这个机制

and try to transmit memories and knowledge across people,

尝试在人与人之间传递记忆和知识，

which is wonderful, right?

这很不错，对吧？

But our ability to communicate relies on our ability

但我们的沟通能力

to have common ground.

依赖于我们拥有共同点的能力。

Because, for example,

因为，举例来说，

if I'm going to use the British synonym

如果我使用英式同义词

"hackney carriage" instead of "cab,"

"出租马车" 取代 "出租汽车"

I know that I'm going to be misaligned with most of you in the audience.

我知道，大多数听众就无法 与我达成同步的沟通。

This alignment depends not only on our ability

沟通的同步不仅取决于

to understand the basic concept;

我们对基本概念的理解能力，

it also depends on our ability to develop common ground and understanding

也取决于我们形成共性、理解彼此

and shared belief systems.

和共享信仰体系的能力。

Because we know that in many cases,

因为我们知道，在许多情况下，

people understand the exact same story in very different ways.

即使是完全相同的故事， 人们的理解方式也可能十分不同。

So to test it in the lab, we did the following experiment.

为了在实验室中验证， 我们做了以下实验。

We took a story by J.D. Salinger,

我们采用了 J.D. Salinger 的一个故事，

in which a husband lost track of his wife in the middle of a party,

在这个故事中 ， 一位丈夫在派对中与妻子失去了联络，

and he's calling his best friend, asking, "Did you see my wife?"

他打电话给最好的朋友，问他： “你看见我妻子了吗？“

For half of the subjects,

半数的受测者被告知：

we said that the wife was having an affair with the best friend.

妻子和最好的朋友有一段私情。

For the other half,

而另外一半则被告知：

we said that the wife is loyal and the husband is very jealous.

妻子是忠诚的，是丈夫的忌妒心太重。

This one sentence before the story started

故事开始前的一句话

was enough to make the brain responses

就足以决定大脑的反应，

of all the people that believed the wife was having an affair

所有相信妻子不忠的人，

be very similar in these high-order areas

在大脑高阶区域 出现非常相似的反应，

and different than the other group.

但与另一组人不同。

And if one sentence is enough to make your brain similar

如果一个句子足以让你的大脑

to people that think like you

与持相同看法的人相似，

and very different than people that think differently than you,

与持不同看法的人相异，

think how this effect is going to be amplified in real life,

那么想想看，在现实生活中 这种效应会被放大到什么样的程度？

when we are all listening to the exact same news item

当我们日复一日听着由不同媒体

after being exposed day after day after day

所报导的相同新闻，

to different media channels, like Fox News or The New York Times,

例如《福克斯新闻》或《纽约时报》

that give us very different perspectives on reality.

造成我们对事实的观点 有截然不同的看法。

So let me summarize.

我来总结一下，

If everything worked as planned tonight,

如果一切事情都像今晚 计划的那样进行，

I used my ability to vocalize sound to be coupled to your brains.

我可以用我的声音 与你的大脑产生共鸣。

And I used this coupling

然后利用这种共鸣，

to transmit my brain patterns associated with my memories and ideas

把我的大脑模式、记忆和想法

into your brains.

传输到你的大脑。

In this, I start to reveal the hidden neural mechanism

由此，我开始揭示沟通所依赖的

by which we communicate.

隐藏神经机制。

And we know that in the future it will enable us to improve

我们知道，在未来， 它会使我们改进

and facilitate communication.

和加速沟通。

But these studies also reveal

但这些研究也表明，

that communication relies on a common ground.

沟通依赖于共同基础。

And we have to be really worried as a society

我们必须得担心，作为一个社会

if we lose this common ground and our ability to speak with people

我们是否失去了这种共同基础，

that are slightly different than us

是否失去了与那些 与自己稍有不同的人沟通的能力，

because we let a few very strong media channels

因为我们放任少数的强势媒体

take control of the mic,

控制了麦克风，

and manipulate and control the way we all think.

操纵了我们的想法。

And I'm not sure how to fix it because I'm only a scientist.

我只是个科学家， 不知如何解决这个问题。

But maybe one way to do it

但或许有一种可能方式，

is to go back to the more natural way of communication,

就是回到更自然的沟通方式，

which is a dialogue,

也就是人与人之间的对话，

in which it's not only me speaking to you now,

不只是像现在这样我对着你说，

but a more natural way of talking,

而是更自然的谈话方式，

in which I am speaking and I am listening,

我一边说也一边听，

and together we are trying to come to a common ground and new ideas.

我们一起努力，获得共同点和新想法。

Because after all,

因为，毕竟，

the people we are coupled to define who we are.

能与我们产生共鸣的人 定义了我们是什麽样的人。

And our desire to be coupled to another brain

我们对另一个大脑 产生共鸣的基本渴望

is something very basic that starts at a very early age.

在年龄很小的时候就已经开始了。

So let me finish with an example from my own private life

最后，我用自己生活中的 一个例子作为结束。

that I think is a good example of how coupling to other people

我觉得这是一个很好的例子，

说明了「共鸣」定义了我们是谁。

is really going to define who we are.

This my son Jonathan at a very early age.

这是我儿子 Jonathan， 在他很小的时候。

See how he developed a vocal game together with my wife,

看看他如何和我妻子 一起开发出一种声音游戏，

only from the desire and pure joy of being coupled to another human being.

仅仅源自渴望与他人 产生共鸣的单纯喜悦。

(Both vocalizing)

（都在发声）

(Laughter)

（笑）

Now, think how the ability of my son

现在来想一想 ， 我儿子与我们，

to be coupled to us and other people in his life

以及他生命中其他人产生共鸣的能力，

is going to shape the man he is going to become.

将如何把他塑造成他将成为的那个人。

And think how you change on a daily basis

想一想，你每天如何

from the interaction and coupling to other people in your life.

从与他人的交往和联系中改变。

So keep being coupled to other people.

所以持续跟其他人产生共鸣。

Keep spreading your ideas,

持续分享你的想法，

because the sum of all of us together, coupled,

因为我们共鸣起来的总力量，

is greater than our parts.

远远胜过我们分开的个体力量。

Thank you.

谢谢！

(Applause)

(掌声)