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譯者: Geoff Chen
審譯者: Ana Choi
00:15
I want you to imagine two couples
in the middle of 1979
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我希望大家設想一下, 兩對夫婦
在1979年的年中
00:20
on the exact same day,
at the exact same moment,
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在相同的一天,相同的時刻
00:23
each conceiving a baby, OK?
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每對懷上了一個孩子 -- 好。
那麼兩對夫婦各自都都懷上了一個孩子
00:26
So two couples each conceiving one baby.
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但我不希望大家花太多時間去想像懷孕的進程,
00:28
Now I don't want you to spend too
much time imagining the conception,
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因為如果你花太多時間去想它,
00:31
because if you do,
you're not going to listen to me,
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你就不會聽我說下去。
00:34
so just imagine that for a moment.
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所以稍微想一下就好了。
00:36
And in this scenario,
I want to imagine that, in one case,
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那麼在這種情況下,
我來設想一下,一種情況是
00:40
the sperm is carrying a Y chromosome,
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攜帶者Y染色體的精子
00:42
meeting that X chromosome of the egg.
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遇到攜帶者X染色體的卵子
00:44
And in the other case,
the sperm is carrying an X chromosome,
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另一種情況
攜帶者X染色體的精子,
00:48
meeting the X chromosome of the egg.
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遇到攜帶者X染色體的卵子。
00:50
Both are viable; both take off.
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兩種情況都可能
我們之後再來看這兩對夫婦。
00:53
We'll come back to these people later.
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在我所從事的領域
00:55
So I wear two hats in most of what I do.
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我擔任兩個角色。
一個角色是,
00:59
As the one hat, I do history of anatomy.
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我做解剖身體結構學歷史研究。
01:02
I'm a historian by training,
and what I study in that case
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我是個史學工作者,
我所研究的是
01:06
is the way that people
have dealt with anatomy --
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人類對於身體結構的處理方法--
01:08
meaning human bodies, animal bodies --
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即人類軀體,動物軀體--
01:11
how they dealt with bodily fluids,
concepts of bodies;
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他們如何處理非常態的軀體,概念上的軀體;
01:14
how have they thought about bodies.
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他們是如何認識軀體。
01:16
The other hat that I've worn
in my work is as an activist,
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另一個角色是
一名活動家
01:20
as a patient advocate --
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作為一個為病人辯護人的角色--
01:22
or, as I sometimes say,
as an impatient advocate --
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或者說,像我有時候說的,是一個很急切的宣導者的角色--
01:25
for people who are patients of doctors.
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為了那些醫生的病人們。
01:27
In that case, what I've worked with
is people who have body types
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那樣的話,在我工作中
所接觸到的是一些
01:31
that challenge social norms.
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挑戰著社會規範的人。
01:33
So some of what
I've worked on, for example,
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因此,我接觸到的,例如
01:35
is people who are conjoined twins --
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像連體嬰兒這樣的人,
01:37
two people within one body.
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兩個人共用一個身體。
01:39
Some of what I've worked on
is people who have dwarfism --
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還有一些是侏儒症患者,
他們比一般人要矮小的多。
01:42
so people who are much
shorter than typical.
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01:44
And a lot of what I've worked on
is people who have atypical sex --
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另外,許多我接觸的人
的性別與眾不同 --
01:48
so people who don't have the standard male
or the standard female body types.
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即他們沒有很標準的男性特徵
或者女性特的身體類型。
01:52
And as a general term,
we can use the term "intersex" for this.
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總的來說,這個症狀可以被叫做雙性人。
01:56
Intersex comes
in a lot of different forms.
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雙性可以有多種的形式。
01:58
I'll just give you a few examples
of the types of ways you can have sex
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我來舉幾個例子
來說明你可以具有
02:02
that isn't standard for male or female.
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既不是標準的男性特徵也不是標準的女性特徵的類型。
02:04
So in one instance,
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例子之一,
02:06
you can have somebody
who has an XY chromosomal basis,
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一個人可以擁有XY染色體,
02:09
and that SRY gene on the Y chromosome
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並且,在Y染色體上的SRY基因(雄性性別決定基因)
02:12
tells the proto-gonads,
which we all have in the fetal life,
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刺激我們在胎兒時期都有的原始性腺
變成睾丸。
02:15
to become testes.
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02:16
So in the fetal life,
those testes are pumping out testosterone.
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因此在胎兒時期,睾丸放出睾丸激素。
但是這個個體缺少受體
02:20
But because this individual
lacks receptors to hear that testosterone,
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來接收睾丸激素,
身體不能對睾丸激素做出反應。
02:25
the body doesn't react
to the testosterone.
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這是一種叫做雄激素不敏感(睾丸女性化)綜合征。
02:27
And this is a syndrome called
androgen insensitivity syndrome.
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02:30
So lots of levels of testosterone,
but no reaction to it.
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所以,雄激素的數量很大,但是不能引起反應。
02:33
As a consequence, the body develops
more along the female typical path.
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因此,身體就會朝著
女性化的趨勢發展。
02:37
When the child is born,
she looks like a girl.
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當嬰兒誕生時,她看起來像個女孩兒。
她就是女孩兒,並且被當作小姑娘來撫養。
02:40
She is a girl, she is raised as a girl.
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大多數情況,直到青春期
02:43
And it's often not until she hits puberty
and she's growing and developing breasts,
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她的胸部開始發育的時候,
她卻沒有經期,
02:47
but she's not getting her period,
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於是被開始發現有一些不妥。
02:49
that somebody figures
out something's up here.
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於是他們檢查發現
02:51
And they do some tests and figure out
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她並沒有發育卵巢和子宮,
02:53
that, instead of having
ovaries inside and a uterus,
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實際上,在她身體內有睾丸,並且她攜帶著Y染色體。
02:55
she has testes inside,
and she has a Y chromosome.
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現在,有一個重要問題需要說明的是
02:58
Now what's important to understand
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大家一定認為這個人實際上是個男孩兒,
03:00
is you may think of this
person as really being male,
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但也並非如此。
03:02
but they're really not.
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03:03
Females, like males,
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女孩, 像男孩同樣,
03:05
have in our bodies something
called the adrenal glands.
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在我們身體內有一個器官叫做腎上腺。
它在我們身體的後部。
03:08
They're in the back of our body.
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負責分泌雄性激素,
03:10
And the adrenal glands make androgens,
which are a masculinizing hormone.
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即一種雄性荷爾蒙。
03:13
Most females like me --
I believe myself to be a typical female --
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像我一樣的大多數女性--我相信我自己是個典型的女性--
我其實不太清楚我的染色體的組成
03:16
I don't actually know
my chromosomal make-up,
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但是我想我應該是可以代表典型性的 --
03:18
but I think I'm probably typical --
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大多數像我一樣的女性實際上是雄激素敏感。
03:20
most females like me
are actually androgen-sensitive.
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我們分泌雄性激素,並且對它有反應。
03:23
We're making androgen,
and we're responding to androgens.
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03:25
The consequence is that somebody like me
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結果是,那些像我一樣的人,
03:27
has actually had a brain
exposed to more androgens
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大腦暴露在更多的雄性激素下
而不是出生時就有睾丸
03:31
than the woman born with testes
who has androgen insensitivity syndrome.
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即雄性激素不敏感綜合征。
03:34
So sex is really complicated --
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所以說性別是個非常複雜的東西;不僅僅是那些雙性的人
03:35
it's not just that intersex people
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即處在兩性之間的人 --
03:37
are in the middle
of all the sex spectrum --
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在某些方面,這種人到處都是。
03:39
in some ways,
they can be all over the place.
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還有一個例子:
03:41
Another example:
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幾年前,我接到一個19歲男子打來的電話,
03:43
a few years ago I got a call
from a man who was 19 years old,
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03:45
who was born a boy, raised a boy,
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他生下來是個男孩,也被當作男孩來養,
03:47
had a girlfriend,
had sex with his girlfriend,
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後來有了女朋友,也和女友發生了性關係,
03:50
had a life as a guy,
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一直過著男孩的生活,
03:52
and had just found out
that he had ovaries and a uterus inside.
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但最近,他發現自己體內有卵巢和子宮。
03:55
What he had was an extreme form
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他所患的是一種極端形式的
03:57
of a condition called
congenital adrenal hyperplasia.
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叫做先天性腎上腺皮質增生症。
他攜帶XX染色體
04:00
He had XX chromosomes,
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並且在子宮內的時候,
04:02
and in the womb, his adrenal glands
were in such high gear
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他的腎上腺很活躍
04:05
that it created, essentially,
a masculine hormonal environment.
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從而形成了一個男性荷爾蒙的環境。
04:09
And as a consequence,
his genitals were masculinized,
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結果就是,他發育了男性生殖器官,
他的大腦接受了
04:12
his brain was subject to the more typical
masculine component of hormones.
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更多的典型的男性荷爾蒙的成分。
04:15
And he was born looking like a boy --
nobody suspected anything.
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因此他生下來看起來像個男孩兒--根本沒人懷疑。
04:18
And it was only when he had
reached the age of 19
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只有當他長到19歲的時候
04:21
that he began to have enough medical
problems from menstruating internally,
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當他開始遇到生理問題的時候
也就是說從體內出現月經起,
04:25
that doctors figured out that, in fact,
he was female, internally.
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醫生指出,實際上他的內部是女性。
好,我們再來快看一個例子,
04:29
OK, so just one more quick example
of a way you can have intersex.
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可能具有兩性特徵的例子。
04:32
Some people who have XX chromosomes
develop what are called ovotestis,
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一些有XX染色體的人
會發育一種叫做卵睾的器官,
04:36
which is when you have ovarian tissue
with testicular tissue wrapped around it.
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也就是當卵巢組織
被睾丸組織包裹起來的一種器官。
04:40
And we're not exactly sure
why that happens.
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我們還不能確定它的成因。
04:42
So sex can come
in lots of different varieties.
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所以說性別可以是很多種形式。
04:45
The reason that children
with these kinds of bodies --
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孩子們
擁有這些身體特徵的--
不論是侏儒症,或者連體嬰兒
04:50
whether it's dwarfism,
or it's conjoined twinning,
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或者是雙性型的--
04:53
or it's an intersex type --
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04:54
are often "normalized" by surgeons
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經常被外科醫生要求變得和正常人一樣的原因
04:56
is not because it actually leaves them
better off in terms of physical health.
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實際上不是因為那樣
對身體健康比較好。
05:00
In many cases, people are actually
perfectly healthy.
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因為很多情況下,他們的身體其實都很健康。
05:03
The reason they're often subject
to various kinds of surgeries
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他們接受各種外科手術的原因
05:06
is because they threaten
our social categories.
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是因為他們恐懼我們社會上對人的分類。
05:09
Our system has been based
typically on the idea
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或者說社會體系已經有一個典型的認識
05:12
that a particular kind of anatomy
comes with a particular identity.
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也就是一個有特殊身體結構的人,伴隨著特殊的身份。
05:15
So we have the concept
that what it means to be a woman
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因此,我們的概念就是最為一個女人
就必須有女性的特性;
05:18
is to have a female identity;
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以此類推,一個黑人
05:20
what it means to be a black person
is, allegedly, to have an African anatomy
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就得具有在你的履歷中
05:24
in terms of your history.
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非洲人的身體結構特徵。
05:26
And so we have
this terribly simplistic idea.
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因此我們就有了這種過於簡單而糟糕的認識。
當我們面對一個
05:30
And when we're faced with a body
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05:31
that actually presents us
something quite different,
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某些方面是完全與眾不同的身體的時候,
05:34
it startles us in terms
of those categorizations.
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那些把他們歸為另類的想法讓我們感到吃驚。
05:37
So we have a lot of very romantic ideas
in our culture about individualism.
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應此我們的文化中有很多關於個人主義
不切實際的想法。
05:41
And our nation's really founded on
a very romantic concept of individualism.
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並且我們國家建立在一個非常不實際的個人主義的概念上。
好,你可以想像這會是多麼令人震驚,
05:45
You can imagine how startling then it is
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05:47
when you have children who are born
who are two people inside of one body.
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倘若你有兩個孩子
出生的時候是兩個身體生在一個身體中。
05:51
Where I ran into the most heat
from this most recently
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我最近一次遇到這種情況是
05:55
was last year when South African runner,
Caster Semenya,
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去年的時候,非洲田徑運動員,卡斯特爾·塞門亞,
05:58
had her sex called into question
at the International Games in Berlin.
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在柏林國際比賽中被質疑性別問題。
許多記者給我打電話,問我:
06:02
I had a lot of journalists
calling me, asking me,
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06:04
"Which is the test they're going to run
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「他們會用哪種檢測方法
06:06
that will tell us whether or not
Caster Semenya is male or female?"
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來向大家證明
卡斯特爾·塞門亞是男還是女?」
06:10
And I had to explain to the journalists
there isn't such a test.
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於是我不得不跟他們解釋說,根本沒有檢測的方法。
06:13
In fact, we now know
that sex is complicated enough
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事實上,我們現在已經瞭解
性別是非常複雜的,
06:17
that we have to admit:
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我們不得不承認
06:19
Nature doesn't draw the line
for us between male and female,
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大自然根本就沒有一個明確的分界線來區分男性或女性,
06:22
or between male and intersex
and female and intersex;
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或者男性和雙性以及女性和雙性;
06:25
we actually draw that line on nature.
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這條分界線實際上是我們自己畫的。
06:28
So what we have is a sort of situation
where the farther our science goes,
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因此我們現在的情況是
科學越發展
我們越要對我們本身承認
06:33
the more we have to admit to ourselves
that these categories
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這些性別的分類形式,
06:36
that we thought of as stable
anatomical categories,
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也就是我們認為很理所當然的身體結構學上的分類
06:38
that mapped very simply
to stable identity categories
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即過於簡單把人
分成了不同的性別群體分類
06:42
are a lot more fuzzy than we thought.
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實際情況要比我們想像的模糊的多。
06:44
And it's not just in terms of sex.
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並且這不僅僅是關於性別的問題。
06:46
It's also in terms of race,
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也同樣是關於種族的問題,
06:48
which turns out to be
vastly more complicated
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這個複雜程度
06:50
than our terminology has allowed.
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遠不是我們的學術語言所能形容的。
06:52
As we look, we get into all sorts
of uncomfortable areas.
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如我們所見,我們涉及各種各樣艱難的領域。
06:55
We look, for example, about the fact
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我們來看一個例子,現實情況是
06:57
that we share at least 95 percent
of our DNA with chimpanzees.
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我們用95%的人類的DNA
與大猩猩進行對比。
我們該如何領受事實上
07:02
What are we to make of the fact
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07:03
that we differ from them
only, really, by a few nucleotides?
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人類和大猩猩的DNA只是在一些核苷酸上有所不同?
科技越是發展,
07:07
And as we get farther
and farther with our science,
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07:09
we get more and more
into a discomforted zone,
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我們越會涉及到讓人苦惱的領域,
那些我們現在必須認識到的
07:12
where we have to acknowledge
that the simplistic categories we've had
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曾經過於簡單化
07:15
are probably overly simplistic.
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的生物分類領域。
07:17
So we're seeing this
in all sorts of places in human life.
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正因如此,我們正在審視著
人類生活中的各個領域
07:21
One of the places
we're seeing it, for example,
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2205
我們看到其中一個領域,舉個例子,
07:23
in our culture,
in the United States today,
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當今美國的文化領域,
07:25
is battles over the beginning
of life and the end of life.
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激烈爭辯著生命的起源和終結。
07:28
We have difficult conversations
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我們有一個艱難的討論
07:30
about at what point we decide
a body becomes a human,
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關於我們從什麼時候一個軀體成為了一個人,
07:33
such that it has a different
right than a fetal life.
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從而有了不同於胎兒的權利。
07:36
We have very difficult
conversations nowadays --
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我們當今有一個非常困難的爭論--
07:38
probably not out in the open
as much as within medicine --
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也許在外部不如在醫學界內爭論的激烈--
07:41
about the question
of when somebody's dead.
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是關於何時認定為人死亡的疑問。
過去,人死的時候,
07:44
In the past, our ancestors
never had to struggle so much
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我們的祖先從來不會過多的糾結於此。
07:46
with this question
of when somebody was dead.
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最多也就是把一個羽毛粘在人的鼻子下,
07:48
At most, they'd stick
a feather on somebody's nose,
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如果羽毛動了,旁人就不會把他們埋掉。
07:51
and if it twitched,
they didn't bury them yet.
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如果羽毛不動,就會埋了他們。
07:53
If it stopped twitching, you bury them.
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但是如今的情況都是
07:55
But today, we have a situation
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07:56
where we want to take
vital organs out of beings
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我們希望把死者的器官
移植到其他人的身體上。
07:59
and give them to other beings.
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08:00
And as a consequence,
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結果就是
08:02
we have to struggle
with this really difficult question
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我們開始糾結在上面所提到的難題中
08:04
about who's dead,
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關於到底是誰死了沒有。
08:06
and this leads us
to a really difficult situation
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這導致我們進入一個很困難的情況,
08:08
where we don't have such simple
categories as we've had before.
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這個情況不適用之前過於簡單的分類。
08:11
Now you might think that all this
breaking-down of categories
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現在你也許會想,所有的這些正在崩潰的分類
08:14
would make somebody like me really happy.
174
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1986
也許會讓像我這樣的人感到高興。
08:16
I'm a political progressive,
I defend people with unusual bodies,
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我是一個在政治觀點上不斷進步的人,我維護那些身體異于常人的人,
但是我必須承認,這種改變讓我感到不安。
08:20
but I have to admit to you
that it makes me nervous.
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知道這個群體生活的不穩定程度
08:22
Understanding that these categories
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要遠遠高過我們的想像令我感到緊張。
08:24
are really much more unstable
than we thought makes me tense.
178
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我的緊張是來自
08:27
It makes me tense from the point of view
of thinking about democracy.
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於民主的觀點。
08:30
So in order to tell you
about that tension,
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2156
所以,為了告訴大家這種緊張的程度,
08:32
I have to first admit to you
a huge fan of the Founding Fathers.
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我首先要承認,我是開國元勳的忠實擁躉。
08:35
I know they were racists,
I know they were sexist,
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我知道他們是種族主義者,他們是男性至上主義者,
然而他們還是非常偉大。
08:38
but they were great.
183
518534
1173
08:39
I mean, they were so brave and so bold
and so radical in what they did,
184
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我的意思是,他們是如此勇敢、無畏
並且積極從事他們的事業
08:44
that I find myself watching that cheesy
musical "1776" every few years,
185
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我自己每隔幾年就要重新去欣賞音樂劇“1776”(美國建國史的音樂劇),
並不是因為他的音樂,音樂是完全可以被忽略的。
08:49
and it's not because of the music,
which is totally forgettable.
186
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3004
是因為1776年圍繞著
08:52
It's because of what happened in 1776
with the Founding Fathers.
187
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建國者們發生的事情。
08:55
The Founding Fathers were,
for my point of view,
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2274
建國者們,我認為他們是
最早的結構學活動家,
08:58
the original anatomical activists,
189
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2052
這也是我愛他們的原因。
09:00
and this is why.
190
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1605
09:01
What they rejected
was an anatomical concept
191
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3275
他們反對的是一個結構學的概念
並且用另一個取而代之
09:05
and replaced it with another one
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1536
09:06
that was radical and beautiful
and held us for 200 years.
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3329
這個基本美好的概念保持了200年。
09:09
So as you all recall,
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1722
大家回憶一下,
09:11
what our Founding Fathers were
rejecting was a concept of monarchy,
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3404
我們的建國者們反對的是一個君主制度的概念。
並且這個君主制是基於
09:15
and the monarchy was basically based
on a very simplistic concept of anatomy.
196
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3638
過於簡單化的結構學概念上的。
09:18
The monarchs of the old world
didn't have a concept of DNA,
197
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3639
舊體制下的帝王們
沒有DNA的概念,
09:22
but they did have a concept of birthright.
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2133
但是他們遵從的是「出身」的理念。
09:24
They had a concept of blue blood.
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1672
他們有貴族的概念。
09:26
They had the idea that the people
who would be in political power
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3183
他們認為,身在政治權力下的人
09:29
should be in political power
because of the blood being passed down
201
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3177
就應該掌握權力
是因為貴族血統要
09:32
from grandfather to father
to son and so forth.
202
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3674
從祖父到父親到兒子一代代傳承。
建國者們反對這種觀點,
09:37
The Founding Fathers rejected that idea,
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2368
他們用一種新的結構上的概念取而代之,
09:39
and they replaced it
with a new anatomical concept,
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2651
那種概念就是
09:42
and that concept
was "all men are created equal."
205
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3833
人人平等。
09:45
They leveled that playing field
and decided the anatomy that mattered
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3363
他們消除了等級觀念
並且確定新的結構特點
09:49
was the commonality of anatomy,
not the difference in anatomy,
207
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4414
是公民平等的結構,
而不是出身的貴賤。
09:53
and that was a really radical thing to do.
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2544
在當時那確實是一個很激進的改革。
09:56
Now they were doing it in part
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1452
某種程度上,這種改革現在仍然在進行
09:58
because they were part
of an Enlightenment system
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2292
因為他們是啟蒙運動系統的一部分,
10:00
where two things were growing up together.
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2009
兩件事情是共同發展的。
10:02
And that was democracy growing up,
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2268
民主制度在當時正在形成,
10:04
but it was also science
growing up at the same time.
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3065
但同時科技也在發展。
非常明顯的是,如果你注意一下建國者的歷史,
10:08
And it's really clear, if you look
at the history of the Founding Fathers,
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3479
他們當中許多人都對科學很感興趣,
10:11
a lot of them were very
interested in science,
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2286
並且他們都對自然主義世界這個概念
10:13
and they were interested
in the concept of a naturalistic world.
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3028
很感興趣。
他們摒棄超自然的說法,
10:16
They were moving away
from supernatural explanations,
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2486
他們排斥那些超自然力量的事情,
10:19
and they were rejecting things
like a supernatural concept of power,
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3237
它被傳播
10:22
where it transmitted because
of a very vague concept of birthright.
219
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4055
是基於非常模糊的身世的理念。
10:26
They were moving
towards a naturalistic concept.
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2282
他們宣導自然主義的概念。
如果你觀察會發現,例如,在獨立宣言中,
10:29
And if you look, for example,
in the Declaration of Independence,
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他們提及到自然和自然之神。
10:32
they talk about nature and nature's God.
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2706
10:34
They don't talk about God
and God's nature.
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2189
他們沒有提到上帝和上帝的自然。
他們提到自然的力量
10:37
They're talking about the power of nature
to tell us who we are.
224
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來解釋我們是誰。
10:40
So as part of that,
they were coming to us with a concept
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3240
因此作為其中的一部分,
他們為我們帶來一個概念,
10:44
that was about anatomical commonality.
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2710
那就是人人生來平等。
10:46
And in doing so, they were really
setting up in a beautiful way
227
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3129
為此,他們確實為將來的民權運動
規劃了一個很美好的道路。
10:50
the Civil Rights Movement of the future.
228
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1913
他們想不到將來會怎樣,但是他們為我們奠定了基礎,這是非常偉大的。
10:52
They didn't think of it that way,
but they did it for us, and it was great.
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3541
那麼數年後發生了什麼呢?
10:55
So what happened years afterwards?
230
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1643
例如在女性身上都發生了什麼,
10:57
What happened was women, for example,
who wanted the right to vote,
231
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3442
她們渴望投票的權利,
11:00
took the Founding Fathers' concept
of anatomical commonality
232
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3362
按照建國者的概念
人人平等要遠重要於
11:04
being more important
than anatomical difference
233
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2207
人的出身,
11:06
and said, "The fact that we have
a uterus and ovaries
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2534
她們說:「我們有子宮和卵巢是事實
11:08
is not significant enough
in terms of a difference
235
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2763
這些不同完全不足以
11:11
to mean that we shouldn't
have the right to vote,
236
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2289
意味著我們沒有投票權,
沒有充分的公民權利,
11:14
the right to full citizenship,
the right to own property, etc."
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3682
沒有私人財產權,等等。」
11:17
And women successfully argued that.
238
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2052
女性的主張獲得了成效。
11:19
Next came the successful
Civil Rights Movement,
239
679839
2397
接下來便是成功的民權運動,
11:22
where we found people like Sojourner Truth
240
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2119
運動中出現了像索傑納·特露絲這樣的人,
11:24
talking about, "Ain't I a woman?"
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2269
她的名言:「我就不是女人嗎?」
11:26
We find men on the marching lines
of the Civil Rights Movement
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3945
我們知道男人
曾經在民權運動的發展路線上
11:30
saying, "I am a man."
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1350
有句名言「我是個男人」。
11:32
Again, people of color
appealing to a commonality of anatomy
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4397
此外,有色人群
呼籲人人平等而不應種族歧視,
11:36
over a difference of anatomy,
again, successfully.
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2690
再者,
我們看到同樣的成功案例發生在傷殘人士的權利運動中。
11:39
We see the same thing
with the disability rights movement.
246
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3037
11:42
The problem is, of course,
247
702552
2158
問題是,當然,
11:44
that, as we begin to look
at all that commonality,
248
704734
2378
當我們開始去審視所有的公民,
我們不得不開始質疑
11:47
we have to begin to question
why we maintain certain divisions.
249
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3425
為什麼我們去維護一個固定的界限。
11:50
Mind you, I want to maintain
some divisions,
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2729
現在,需要提醒大家的是,我希望在我們的文化範圍被內
去保持一些身體結構上的界限。
11:53
anatomically, in our culture.
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1667
舉個例子,我不希望
11:55
For example, I don't want to give a fish
the same rights as a human.
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3680
給予魚和人類一樣的權利。
11:58
I don't want to say
we give up entirely on anatomy.
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2585
我不希望我們放棄一切在身體結構學上的區分界限。
我不希望,一個五歲的孩子
12:01
I don't want to say a five-year-old
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1667
可以被允許有性行為或者說允許結婚。
12:03
should be allowed to consent
to sex or consent to marry.
255
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2631
12:05
So there are some anatomical divisions
256
725688
1967
所以說,有一些在身體結構學上的界限
12:07
that make sense to me
and that I think we should retain.
257
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3309
對我們來說是有意義的,我想那些應該被保留。
但是,艱巨的任務是試著去找出哪些是應該保留,
12:11
But the challenge is trying
to figure out which ones they are
258
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2893
12:13
and why do we retain them,
and do they have meaning.
259
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2611
為什麼我們要保留它們,它們有什麼意義。
12:16
So let's go back to those two beings
conceived at the beginning of this talk.
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3790
所以,讓我們回到剛才說到的那兩人
就是演講一開始所虛構的那兩個人。
12:20
We have two beings, both conceived
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1858
我們有兩對夫婦
12:22
in the middle of 1979
on the exact same day.
262
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3491
都在1979年年中的同一天懷孕了。
12:25
Let's imagine one of them, Mary,
is born three months prematurely,
263
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3750
讓我們設想一下,瑪麗,
提前三個月出生了,
12:29
so she's born on June 1, 1980.
264
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2502
因此她出生於1980年6月1日。
亨利,相反的,足月出生,
12:32
Henry, by contrast, is born at term,
so he's born on March 1, 1980.
265
752075
4173
他出生於1980年3月1日。
12:36
Simply by virtue of the fact
266
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1792
僅僅是由於
12:38
that Mary was born
prematurely three months,
267
758662
2458
瑪麗早出生了三個月這個事實
從而她獲得各種權利的時間
12:41
she comes into all sorts of rights
three months earlier than Henry does --
268
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4242
要比亨利早三個月--
12:45
the right to consent to sex,
the right to vote, the right to drink.
269
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4215
允許有性行為的權利,
選舉的權利,喝酒的權利。
12:49
Henry has to wait for all of that,
270
769649
1633
亨利就不得不等待
12:51
not because he's actually
any different in age, biologically,
271
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3014
他的生理學年齡沒有任何不同
12:54
except in terms of when he was born.
272
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2265
只是因為他出生的時間不同。
我們還發現其他一些離奇的權利問題。
12:57
We find other kinds of weirdness
in terms of what their rights are.
273
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3160
亨利,由於被假定為男性--
13:00
Henry, by virtue of being
assumed to be male --
274
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2193
13:02
although I haven't told you
that he's the XY one --
275
782650
2391
儘管我沒有告訴過大家他是XY型染色體--
由於被假定為男性
13:05
by virtue of being assumed to be male
is now liable to be drafted,
276
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4171
所以現在要應徵入伍,
13:09
which Mary does not need to worry about.
277
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1940
瑪麗就不需要去擔心這些。
13:11
Mary, meanwhile, cannot in all the states
have the same right
278
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3773
與此同時,瑪麗不能在所有的州
像亨利一樣享受同樣權利,
13:15
that Henry has in all the states,
279
795021
1600
也就是,結婚的權利。
13:16
namely, the right to marry.
280
796645
1482
亨利可以在任何一個州跟另一名女子結婚,
13:18
Henry can marry, in every state, a woman,
281
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2764
13:20
but Mary can only marry today
in a few states, a woman.
282
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3008
但是瑪麗如今只能在少數幾個州娶一位女性。
13:24
So we have these anatomical
categories that persist,
283
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2893
因此我們所堅持的一些結構上的生物分類
13:27
that are in many ways
problematic and questionable.
284
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3749
在很多方面是有問題並且需要質疑的。
對我來說,問題就變成了:
13:31
And the question to me becomes:
285
811169
1721
13:32
What do we do, as our science
gets to be so good in looking at anatomy,
286
812914
5988
我們應該做什麼,
當我們的科學在身體結構學上
如此先進的時候,
13:38
that we reach the point
where we have to admit
287
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2570
我們已經達到一點是我們不得不去承認的,
13:41
that a democracy
that's been based on anatomy
288
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2877
那就是基於人本身不同的民主
13:44
might start falling apart?
289
824421
1432
也許正在崩潰?
我不想對科學失去希望,
13:47
I don't want to give up the science,
but at the same time,
290
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2724
但是同時,有的時候隱約覺得
13:49
it feels sometimes like the science
is coming out from under us.
291
829888
3148
科學的發展是受到我們影響的。
因此我們將走向何方?
13:53
So where do we go?
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1176
看起來我們將來發生的事情
13:55
It seems like what happens in our culture
is a sort of pragmatic attitude:
293
835089
4081
會帶著一種務實的態度:
「好,我必須在某處畫一條界限,
13:59
"We have to draw the line somewhere,
so we will draw the line somewhere."
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3438
那麼我就在那畫一條界限。」
14:02
But a lot of people get stuck
in a very strange position.
295
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2686
但是很多人會因此陷在一個非常尷尬的位置。
舉個例子,
14:05
So for example, Texas has at one point
decided that what it means to marry a man
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845366
4870
德克薩斯州有一個決定
嫁給一個男人
14:10
is to mean that you don't have
a Y chromosome,
297
850260
2395
意味著你沒有Y染色體,
14:12
and what it means to marry a woman
means you have a Y chromosome.
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852679
3070
同時如果你娶一個女人意味著你有Y染色體。
現實中,他們實際上不會去檢測染色體。
14:15
In practice they don't test people
for their chromosomes.
299
855773
2722
但是這也非常奇怪,
14:18
But this is also very bizarre,
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858519
1483
因為我一開始告訴了大家那個關於
14:20
because of the story I told you
at the beginning
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2320
雄激素不敏感綜合征的故事
14:22
about androgen insensitivity syndrome.
302
862370
1810
如有我們看一下現代民主制度的奠基人之一,
14:24
If we look at one of the Founding Fathers
of modern democracy,
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864204
3532
馬丁·路德·金 博士,
14:27
Dr. Martin Luther King,
304
867760
1180
14:28
he offers us something of a solution
in his "I have a dream" speech.
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868964
3203
在他的<我有一個夢想>的演講中,為我們提供了一個解決方法。
他認為我們「不應該根據一個人的膚色,
14:32
He says we should judge people
"based not on the color of their skin,
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872191
3267
而是應該根據他的品格」去評判一個人,
14:35
but on the content of their character,"
307
875482
1871
摒棄人體結構差異。
14:37
moving beyond anatomy.
308
877377
1522
14:38
And I want to say, "Yeah, that sounds
like a really good idea."
309
878923
2979
我想說:「是的,那聽起來確實是個好方法。」
14:41
But in practice, how do you do it?
310
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1656
但實際操作中,你怎麼去做?
14:43
How do you judge people based
on the content of character?
311
883606
2950
你如何根據他的品德去評判人們?
我還想指出
14:47
I also want to point out
312
887093
1152
14:48
that I'm not sure that is how we should
distribute rights in terms of humans,
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888269
3811
我不太確定我們應該如何分配人類的權利,
因為,我不得不承認,有些黃金獵犬
14:52
because, I have to admit, that there
are some golden retrievers I know
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892104
3303
比起我知道的一些人似乎更應該
14:55
that are probably more deserving of social
services than some humans I know.
315
895431
3577
得到社會的幫助人們
我還想說,我知道有些拉布拉多犬似乎
14:59
I also want to say there are probably
also some yellow Labradors that I know
316
899032
3595
比有些40歲左右的人在性關係問題上
15:02
that are more capable of informed,
intelligent, mature decisions
317
902651
3023
更慎重,更聰明,更能作出成熟的決定。
15:05
about sexual relations
than some 40-year-olds that I know.
318
905698
2722
因此我們如何去衡量
15:08
So how do we operationalize
the question of content of character?
319
908444
4178
品德的問題?
15:12
It turns out to be really difficult.
320
912646
1925
結果證明是非常困難的。
15:14
And part of me also wonders,
321
914595
1481
我還想知道,
15:16
what if content of character
322
916100
1872
如果品德的好壞
15:17
turns out to be something
that's scannable in the future --
323
917996
3240
在未來可以被某個東西衡量--
15:21
able to be seen with an fMRI?
324
921981
2309
也許可以用核磁共振成像看見?
我們真的願意走到那一步嗎?
15:24
Do we really want to go there?
325
924314
1611
我不確定我們將走向何方。
15:26
I'm not sure where we go.
326
926360
1336
15:27
What I do know is that it seems
to be really important
327
927720
2551
我知道的是應該思考一下
美國所引領的民主存在的問題
15:30
to think about the idea
of the United States being in the lead
328
930295
2943
看起來是非常重要的。
15:33
of thinking about this issue of democracy.
329
933262
2004
我們在爭取民主的問題上已經做得非常好了,
15:35
We've done a really good job
struggling with democracy,
330
935290
2711
我認為今後同樣會做的更好。
15:38
and I think we would do
a good job in the future.
331
938025
2334
我們情況和伊朗不同,比如,
15:40
We don't have a situation
that Iran has, for example,
332
940383
2603
一個男人對另一個男人在性上吸引
15:43
where a man who's sexually
attracted to other men
333
943010
2293
是可以被謀殺的,
15:45
is liable to be murdered,
334
945327
1197
15:46
unless he's willing
to submit to a sex change,
335
946548
2171
除非他願意改變自己的性取向,
15:48
in which case he's allowed to live.
336
948743
1887
那麼他將可以活下來。
我們沒有那樣的情況。
15:51
We don't have that kind of situation.
337
951168
1791
15:52
I'm glad to say we don't have
the kind of situation with --
338
952983
3299
我非常高興的說我們沒有那樣的情況--
對一位外科醫生說,那是在數年之前
15:56
a surgeon I talked to a few years ago
339
956306
1983
他帶來一個連體嬰兒
15:58
who had brought over a set
of conjoined twins
340
958313
2436
16:00
in order to separate them,
partly to make a name for himself.
341
960773
2911
希望可以幫助他們分解,某種程度上也想讓自己成名。
但是當我跟他通電話時,
16:03
But when I was on the phone with him,
asking why he'll do this surgery --
342
963708
3450
問他為什麼希望做這個手術--
因為這是個危險性很高的手術--
16:07
this was a very high-risk surgery --
his answer was that, in this other nation,
343
967182
3726
他答道,在其他國家
16:10
these children were going to be treated
very badly, and so he had to do this.
344
970932
3633
這樣的孩子將會被殘忍的對待,因此他必須要幫助他們這麼做。
我對他的回答是,「嗯,你為他們考慮過政治庇護
16:14
My response to him was, "Well,
have you considered political asylum
345
974589
3152
而不是進行手術嗎?」
16:17
instead of a separation surgery?"
346
977765
1607
16:19
The United States has offered
tremendous possibility
347
979396
2449
美國為像他這樣的人選擇這條路
16:21
for allowing people
to be the way they are,
348
981869
2367
提供了很大的可能,
16:24
without having them have
to be changed for the sake of the state.
349
984260
3698
從而不用為了他們的國家改變自己的身體。
16:27
So I think we have to be in the lead.
350
987982
2178
因此我認為我們應該要引領這種思想。
好,說到這裡,我想提醒大家
16:30
Well, just to close,
I want to suggest to you
351
990184
2457
16:32
that I've been talking
a lot about the Fathers.
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992665
2531
我已經談論了很多前人的事情。
我還想考慮一下
16:35
And I want to think
about the possibilities
353
995220
2016
16:37
of what democracy might look like,
or might have looked like,
354
997260
2905
民主會是的什麼樣子,或者是已經是什麼樣子的可能性,
如果我麼可以讓更多的母親參與進來。
16:40
if we had more involved the mothers.
355
1000189
1873
16:42
And I want to say something
a little bit radical for a feminist,
356
1002645
3038
我還想說一些關於女權主義者激進的話,
16:45
and that is that I think that there may be
different kinds of insights
357
1005707
3845
那就是我認為
不同的人
16:49
that can come from different
kinds of anatomies,
358
1009576
2249
也許可以帶來不同的的觀察視角,
16:51
particularly when we have
people thinking in groups.
359
1011849
2622
特別是當我們習慣於群體性思維的時候。
16:54
For years, because
I've been interested in intersex,
360
1014495
2507
我已經對雙性人感興趣很多年了,
也對性別差異進行了多年的研究。
16:57
I've also been interested
in sex-difference research.
361
1017026
2477
並且我十分感興趣的事情之一是
16:59
And one of the things
that I've been interested in
362
1019527
2353
去觀察世界範圍內男性與女性之間
17:01
is looking at the differences
between males and females
363
1021904
2602
在思考問題和解決問題上的差別。
17:04
in terms of the way they think
and operate in the world.
364
1024530
2639
我們從跨文化研究中得知
17:07
And what we know
from cross-cultural studies
365
1027193
2073
17:09
is that females, on average --
366
1029290
1840
女性,平均的看--
17:11
not everyone, but on average --
367
1031154
2082
當然不是每個人,而是平均的看
17:13
are more inclined to be very attentive
to complex social relations
368
1033260
4891
更傾向於留意
複雜的社會關係
同時更加關心、同情
17:18
and to taking care of people
369
1038175
1578
17:19
who are, basically,
vulnerable within the group.
370
1039777
2276
人群中相對較脆弱的人。
17:22
And so if we think about that,
371
1042779
2207
那麼如果我們這麼想,
我們會發現一個有趣的情況。
17:25
we have an interesting situation in hands.
372
1045010
2001
數年前,當我讀研究生的時候,
17:27
Years ago, when I was in graduate school,
373
1047035
1966
我的一位指導教授知道我對女權運動很感興趣--
17:29
one of my graduate advisors
who knew I was interested in feminism --
374
1049025
3197
我自認是女權主義者,當然現在一直是--
17:32
I considered myself
a feminist, as I still do,
375
1052246
2236
他問了我一個很怪的問題
17:34
asked a really strange question.
376
1054506
1549
他說:「告訴我什麼是女性的女權主義。」
17:36
He said, "Tell me what's feminine
about feminism."
377
1056079
2909
我想:「哼! 這是我聽過最愚蠢的的問題。
17:39
And I thought, "Well, that's the dumbest
question I've ever heard.
378
1059012
3171
女權主義是所有消除陳腐統稱性別觀念的一切活動,
17:42
Feminism is all about undoing
stereotypes about gender,
379
1062207
2574
因此,女權主義不存有女性的。」
17:44
so there's nothing
feminine about feminism."
380
1064805
2062
17:46
But the more I thought about his question,
381
1066891
2025
但是,進一步解讀這個問題,
17:48
the more I thought there might be
something feminine about feminism.
382
1068940
3218
我想的更多的是,女權主義也許存有著一些女性的。
也就是說,也許有一些,總括來說,
17:52
That is to say, there might be
something, on average,
383
1072182
2709
17:54
different about female
brains from male brains
384
1074915
2872
女性的思維不同於男性的部分
17:57
that makes us more attentive
to deeply complex social relationships,
385
1077811
5064
使得我們對於複雜的社會關係
更加富有警惕性,
18:02
and more attentive
to taking care of the vulnerable.
386
1082899
2833
並且更加注意關心那些脆弱的人。
18:05
So whereas the Fathers
were extremely attentive
387
1085756
2503
但是前人們細心的
18:08
to figuring out how to protect
individuals from the state,
388
1088283
3811
指出如何保護個人不受國家的影響,
如果我們在這個概念中注入如更多的母性
18:12
it's possible that if we injected
more mothers into this concept,
389
1092118
3845
是可能的,
18:15
what we would have is more of a concept
of not just how to protect,
390
1095987
3606
我們將擁有要遠多於一個概念,
不僅僅是如何保護,
18:19
but how to care for each other.
391
1099617
2320
而是如何照顧彼此。
18:21
And maybe that's where
we need to go in the future,
392
1101961
2573
也許這就是我們未來要走的路,
18:24
when we take democracy beyond anatomy,
393
1104558
2207
當我們拋開人種的分別來講民主--
18:26
is to think less about the individual body
in terms of the identity,
394
1106789
3535
也就是較少考慮到人的個體,
關於人的身份特性,
18:30
and think more about those relationships.
395
1110348
2350
而是更多考慮人們之間的關係。
18:32
So that as we the people
try to create a more perfect union,
396
1112722
3465
因此,當人們試圖創造一個更加美好的聯合體的時候,
我們需要考慮的是我們為他人都做過了什麼。
18:36
we're thinking about what we do
for each other.
397
1116211
2893
謝謝。
18:39
Thank you.
398
1119128
1151
18:40
(Applause)
399
1120303
2774
(掌聲)
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