Alice Dreger: Is anatomy destiny?

Prevoditelj: Senzos Osijek Recezent: Tilen Pigac - EFZG

I want you to imagine two couples in the middle of 1979

Želim da zamislite dva para

sredinom 1979. godine,

on the exact same day, at the exact same moment,

točno istog dana u točno istom trenutku,

each conceiving a baby, OK?

kako pokušavaju začeti dijete -- u redu.

Dakle, dva para i svaki pokušava začeti jedno dijete.

So two couples each conceiving one baby.

Ne želim da provedete previše vremena zamišljajući samo začeće,

Now I don't want you to spend too much time imagining the conception,

jer ako svo to vrijeme provedete zamišljajući to začeće,

because if you do, you're not going to listen to me,

nećete me slušati.

so just imagine that for a moment.

Dakle, zamislite to samo na trenutak.

And in this scenario, I want to imagine that, in one case,

I u ovom scenariju

želim da zamislite da, u jednom slučaju,

the sperm is carrying a Y chromosome,

spermij nosi Y kromosom,

meeting that X chromosome of the egg.

koji se sastaje s X kromosomom jajne stanice.

And in the other case, the sperm is carrying an X chromosome,

A u drugom slučaju

spermij nosi X kromosom

meeting the X chromosome of the egg.

i sastaje se s X kromosomom jajne stanice.

Both are viable; both take off.

Oba su sposobna za život; oba uspiju.

Kasnije ćemo se vratiti na ove ljude.

We'll come back to these people later.

Dakle, nosim dva šešira

So I wear two hats in most of what I do.

u većini onoga što radim.

Kao jedan šešir

As the one hat, I do history of anatomy.

nosim povijest anatomije.

I'm a historian by training, and what I study in that case

Povjesničarka sam po struci,

i ono što proučavam u tom slučaju

is the way that people have dealt with anatomy --

je način na koji se ljudi nose s anatomijom --

meaning human bodies, animal bodies --

dakle, ljudskim tijelima, životinjskim tijelima --

how they dealt with bodily fluids, concepts of bodies;

kako se nose s tjelesnim tekućinama, pojmom tijela;

how have they thought about bodies.

kako razmišljaju o tijelima.

The other hat that I've worn in my work is as an activist,

Drugi sam šešir nosila radeći

kao aktivistica,

as a patient advocate --

kao odvjetnik pacijenata --

or, as I sometimes say, as an impatient advocate --

ili, kako ponekad kažem, kao nestrpljivi odvjetnik --

for people who are patients of doctors.

za ljude koji su pacijenti doktora.

In that case, what I've worked with is people who have body types

U tom slučaju, radila sam s

ljudima koji imaju tipove tijela

that challenge social norms.

koji izazivaju socijalne norme.

So some of what I've worked on, for example,

Među ostalim, radila sam, na primjer

is people who are conjoined twins --

s ljudima koji su sijamski blizanci,

two people within one body.

dvoje ljudi unutar jednog tijela.

Some of what I've worked on is people who have dwarfism --

Radila sam i s ljudima s patuljastim rastom --

ljudima koji su mnogo niži no obično.

so people who are much shorter than typical.

And a lot of what I've worked on is people who have atypical sex --

I ono na čemu sam mnogo radila

su ljudi koji su atipičnog spola --

so people who don't have the standard male or the standard female body types.

dakle, ljudi koji nemaju standarni muški

ili standardni ženski tip tijela.

And as a general term, we can use the term "intersex" for this.

I kao općeniti izraz za to možemo upotrijebiti izraz međuspol.

Intersex comes in a lot of different forms.

Međuspolnost dolazi u mnogo različitih oblika.

I'll just give you a few examples of the types of ways you can have sex

Dat ću vam nekoliko primjera

tipova načina na koje možete dobiti spol

that isn't standard for male or female.

koji nije standardan ni za muško ni za žensko.

So in one instance,

Na primjer,

you can have somebody who has an XY chromosomal basis,

možete imati nekoga tko ima XY kromosomsku bazu

and that SRY gene on the Y chromosome

i SRY gen na Y kromosomu

tells the proto-gonads, which we all have in the fetal life,

govori pre-gonadama, koje svi imamo u fetalnom životu,

da postanu testisi.

to become testes.

So in the fetal life, those testes are pumping out testosterone.

Tako da u fetalnom životu testisi ispumpavaju testosteron.

Ali zato što ova osoba nema receptore

But because this individual lacks receptors to hear that testosterone,

koji bi trebali čuti taj testosteron,

tijelo ne reagira na testosteron.

the body doesn't react to the testosterone.

I ovo je sindrom zvan sindrom neosjetljivosti na androgene.

And this is a syndrome called androgen insensitivity syndrome.

So lots of levels of testosterone, but no reaction to it.

Dakle, mnogo testosterona, ali nema reakcije na njega.

As a consequence, the body develops more along the female typical path.

Kao posljedica, tijelo se razvija

više u smjeru ženskog tijela.

When the child is born, she looks like a girl.

Kad se dijete rodi, izgleda kao djevojčica.

Ona jest djevojčica. Odgajana je kao djevojčica.

She is a girl, she is raised as a girl.

I često sve dok ne dođe pubertet

And it's often not until she hits puberty and she's growing and developing breasts,

i raste i razvija prsa,

ali ne dobiva menstruaciju,

but she's not getting her period,

tek tada netko posumnja da se nešto događa.

that somebody figures out something's up here.

I onda rade pretrage i shvate

And they do some tests and figure out

da, umjesto da se unutra nalaze jajnici i maternica,

that, instead of having ovaries inside and a uterus,

ona zapravo unutra ima testise i ima Y kromosom.

she has testes inside, and she has a Y chromosome.

Ono što je važno shvatiti

Now what's important to understand

je to da možete misliti kako je ova osoba zapravo muško

is you may think of this person as really being male,

no ipak nije.

but they're really not.

Females, like males,

Ženski spol, kao i muški,

have in our bodies something called the adrenal glands.

u našim tijelima imamo nešto što se zove nadbubrežna žlijezda.

Nalaze se na stražnjoj strani našeg tijela.

They're in the back of our body.

I one proizvode androgene,

And the adrenal glands make androgens, which are a masculinizing hormone.

koji su maskulinizirajući hormoni.

Most females like me -- I believe myself to be a typical female --

Većina žena poput mene -- vjerujem da sam tipično žensko --

Ne znam zapravo svoj kromosomski ustroj,

I don't actually know my chromosomal make-up,

ali mislim da sam vjerojatno tipična --

but I think I'm probably typical --

većina žena poput mene su zapravo osjetljive na androgene.

most females like me are actually androgen-sensitive.

Proizvodimo androgen i reagiramo na androgene.

We're making androgen, and we're responding to androgens.

The consequence is that somebody like me

Posljedica je ta da je netko poput mene

has actually had a brain exposed to more androgens

zapravo mozak izložio većoj količini androgena

nego žena rođena s testisima

than the woman born with testes who has androgen insensitivity syndrome.

koja ima sindrom osjetljivosti na androgene.

So sex is really complicated --

Dakle, spol je zaista kompliciran; ne samo da su međuspolne osobe

it's not just that intersex people

u sredini cijelog spolnog spektra --

are in the middle of all the sex spectrum --

na neki način, mogu biti posvuda.

in some ways, they can be all over the place.

Još jedan primjer:

Another example:

prije nekoliko godina primila sam poziv od muškarca koji je imao 19 godina,

a few years ago I got a call from a man who was 19 years old,

who was born a boy, raised a boy,

rođen je kao dječak, odgojen kao dječak,

had a girlfriend, had sex with his girlfriend,

imao je djevojku, imao je spolni odnos sa svojom djevojkom,

had a life as a guy,

imao je život kao momak

and had just found out that he had ovaries and a uterus inside.

i upravo je saznao da unutra ima jajnike i maternicu.

What he had was an extreme form

Ono što je on imao je ekstremni oblik

of a condition called congenital adrenal hyperplasia.

stanja zvanog kongenitalna adrenalna hiperplazija.

Imao je XX kromosome,

He had XX chromosomes,

a u maternici,

and in the womb, his adrenal glands were in such high gear

njegove su nadrubrežne žlijezde bile u tako velikoj brzini

that it created, essentially, a masculine hormonal environment.

da su u suštini stvorile mušku hormonalnu okolinu.

And as a consequence, his genitals were masculinized,

I kao posljedica, njegove genitalije su maskulinizirane,

njegov mozak je bio izložen

his brain was subject to the more typical masculine component of hormones.

tipičnijim muževnijim komponentama hormona.

And he was born looking like a boy -- nobody suspected anything.

I rođen je izgledom poput dječaka -- nitko nije ništa posumnjao.

And it was only when he had reached the age of 19

I tek kada je došao do 19. godine

that he began to have enough medical problems from menstruating internally,

počeli su njegovi ozbiljniji medicinski problemi,

od unutrašnje mentruacije

that doctors figured out that, in fact, he was female, internally.

kada su doktori otkrili da je on unutra zapravo žensko.

Dobro, samo još jedan brz primjer

OK, so just one more quick example of a way you can have intersex.

načina na koji možete dobiti međuspol.

Some people who have XX chromosomes develop what are called ovotestis,

Neki ljudi koji imaju XX kromosome

razviju takozvane ovotestise,

which is when you have ovarian tissue with testicular tissue wrapped around it.

a to je kada imate tkivo jajnika

omotano tkivom testisa oko njih.

And we're not exactly sure why that happens.

I nismo sigurni zašto se to zapravo događa.

So sex can come in lots of different varieties.

Spol može doći u mnogo različitih vrsta.

The reason that children with these kinds of bodies --

Razlog

zbog kojeg su djeca s ovakvim tipom tijela --

nebitno je li to patuljastost ili sijamski blizanci

whether it's dwarfism, or it's conjoined twinning,

ili tip međuspola --

or it's an intersex type --

are often "normalized" by surgeons

često korigirana kirurški

is not because it actually leaves them better off in terms of physical health.

nije zato što im to zapravo osigurava bolje

psihičko zdravlje.

In many cases, people are actually perfectly healthy.

U mnogo slučajeva, ljudi su zapravo potpuno zdravi.

The reason they're often subject to various kinds of surgeries

Razlog zbog kojeg su često podvrgnuti različitim operacijama

is because they threaten our social categories.

je taj što prijete našim socijalnim kategorijama.

Our system has been based typically on the idea

Naš sistem je tipično baziran na ideji

that a particular kind of anatomy comes with a particular identity.

da specifična vrsta anatomije dolazi sa specifičnim identitetom.

So we have the concept that what it means to be a woman

Pa imamo koncept da je ono što znači biti žensko,

imati ženski identitet;

is to have a female identity;

ono što znači biti crna osoba, je navodno,

what it means to be a black person is, allegedly, to have an African anatomy

imati Afričku anatomiju

in terms of your history.

u uvjetima naše povijesti.

And so we have this terribly simplistic idea.

I zato imamo ovu grozno jednostavnu ideju.

I kada smo suočeni s tijelom

And when we're faced with a body

that actually presents us something quite different,

koje nam zapravo predstavlja nešto potpuno drugačije,

it startles us in terms of those categorizations.

prepadnemo se toga pod uvjetima ovih kategorizacija.

So we have a lot of very romantic ideas in our culture about individualism.

Dakle, imamo mnogo veoma romantičnih ideja u našoj kulturi

o individualnosti.

And our nation's really founded on a very romantic concept of individualism.

I naš narod je zaista zasnovan na veoma romantičnom konceptu individualizma.

Možete zamisliti kako je zastrašujuće

You can imagine how startling then it is

when you have children who are born who are two people inside of one body.

kada imate djecu koja su rođena

kao dvoje ljudi unutar jednog tijela.

Where I ran into the most heat from this most recently

Naletjela sam na veliku paniku što se toga tiče nedavno,

was last year when South African runner, Caster Semenya,

kada je prošle godine južnoafrička trkačica Caster Semenya

had her sex called into question at the International Games in Berlin.

dovela u pitanje svoj spol na Međunarodnim igrama u Berlinu.

Mnogo novinara me zvalo pitajući me,

I had a lot of journalists calling me, asking me,

"Which is the test they're going to run

“Koji ćete test koristiti

that will tell us whether or not Caster Semenya is male or female?"

kako bi nam rekli je li

Caster Semenya muško ili žensko?”

And I had to explain to the journalists there isn't such a test.

I morala sam objasniti novinarima da ne postoji takav test.

In fact, we now know that sex is complicated enough

Zapravo, znamo

da je spol dovoljno kompliciran

that we have to admit:

da moramo priznati

Nature doesn't draw the line for us between male and female,

da priroda ne povlači liniju za nas između muškog i ženskog

or between male and intersex and female and intersex;

ili između muškog i međuspola i ženskog i međuspola;

we actually draw that line on nature.

mi zapravo povlačimo tu liniju na prirodu.

So what we have is a sort of situation where the farther our science goes,

Dakle, ono što imamo je vrsta situacije

u kojoj što dalje ide naša znanost,

to više moramo priznati sebi samima

the more we have to admit to ourselves that these categories

da su ove kategorije

that we thought of as stable anatomical categories,

koje smo smatrali stabilnim anatomskim kategorijama

that mapped very simply to stable identity categories

koje smo veoma jednostavno smjestili

u stabilne kategorije identiteta

are a lot more fuzzy than we thought.

mnogo složenije no što smo mislili.

And it's not just in terms of sex.

I ne samo u smislu spola.

It's also in terms of race,

Već i u smislu rase,

which turns out to be vastly more complicated

za koju se čini da je mnogo kompliciranija

than our terminology has allowed.

nego što to naša terminologija dopušta.

As we look, we get into all sorts of uncomfortable areas.

Kada pogledamo, dolazimo do raznih vrsta neugodnih područja.

We look, for example, about the fact

Pogledamo, na primjer, činjenicu

that we share at least 95 percent of our DNA with chimpanzees.

da dijelimo najmanje 95 posto našeg DNK

sa čimpanzama.

Što napraviti sa činjenicom

What are we to make of the fact

that we differ from them only, really, by a few nucleotides?

da smo različiti od njih samo za par nukleotida?

I što dalje i dalje idemo sa znanošću,

And as we get farther and farther with our science,

we get more and more into a discomforted zone,

ulazimo sve više i više u neugodnu zonu

gdje moramo potvrditi

where we have to acknowledge that the simplistic categories we've had

da su jednostavne kategorije koje smo imali

are probably overly simplistic.

vjerojatno previše jednostavne.

So we're seeing this in all sorts of places in human life.

Ovo vidimo

na različitim mjestima u ljudskom životu.

One of the places we're seeing it, for example,

Jedno od mjesta na kojem to vidimo su, na primjer,

in our culture, in the United States today,

u našoj današnjoj kulturi, danas u Sjedinjenim Američkim Državama,

is battles over the beginning of life and the end of life.

bitke oko početka života i završetka života.

We have difficult conversations

Imamo teške razgovore

about at what point we decide a body becomes a human,

o tome u kojem trenutku odlučujemo da tijelo postaje čovjek,

such that it has a different right than a fetal life.

da bi imalo drugačije pravo nego u fetalnom životu.

We have very difficult conversations nowadays --

Imamo teške razgovore u današnje vrijeme --

probably not out in the open as much as within medicine --

vjerojatno ne toliko javno koliko unutar medicine --

about the question of when somebody's dead.

o pitanju kada je netko mrtav.

U prošlosti, naši se pretci nikada nisu morali toliko mučiti

In the past, our ancestors never had to struggle so much

s pitanjem kada je netko umro.

with this question of when somebody was dead.

Najviše što bi napravili je to da bi gurnuli pero pod nečiji nos

At most, they'd stick a feather on somebody's nose,

i ako bi zatitralo, ne bi ga još pokopali.

and if it twitched, they didn't bury them yet.

Ako bi prestalo titrati, pokopali bi ga.

If it stopped twitching, you bury them.

Ali danas, imamo situaciju

But today, we have a situation

where we want to take vital organs out of beings

kada želimo uzeti vitalne organe iz bića

i dati ih drugim bićima.

and give them to other beings.

And as a consequence,

I za posljedicu,

we have to struggle with this really difficult question

zapeli smo s time da se moramo boriti s veoma teškim pitanjem

about who's dead,

o tome tko je mrtav.

and this leads us to a really difficult situation

I to nas dovodi do veoma teške situacije

where we don't have such simple categories as we've had before.

u kojoj nemamo tako jednostavne kategorije kao što smo imali prije.

Now you might think that all this breaking-down of categories

Mogli biste pomisliti kako bi ovo razbijanje kategorija

would make somebody like me really happy.

moglo veoma usrećiti nekog poput mene.

I'm a political progressive, I defend people with unusual bodies,

Ja sam politički napredna, branim ljude s neobičnim tijelima,

ali vam moram priznati da me to čini nervoznom.

but I have to admit to you that it makes me nervous.

Razumijevanje toga da su ove kategorije

Understanding that these categories

mnogo nestabilnije no što smo mislili čini me napetom.

are really much more unstable than we thought makes me tense.

I čini me napetom

It makes me tense from the point of view of thinking about democracy.

s točke gledišta razmišljanja o demokraciji.

So in order to tell you about that tension,

Kako bih vam rekla nešto o toj napetosti,

I have to first admit to you a huge fan of the Founding Fathers.

prvo vam moram priznati da sam veliki fan Utemeljitelja.

I know they were racists, I know they were sexist,

Znam da su bili rasisti, znam da su bili seksisti,

ali su bili veliki.

but they were great.

I mean, they were so brave and so bold and so radical in what they did,

Mislim, bili su tako hrabri i odvažni

i radikalni u onome što su radili

that I find myself watching that cheesy musical "1776" every few years,

da se znam zateći kako gledam onaj otrcan mjuzikl “1776” svakih nekoliko godina

i to ne zbog glazbe, koja je potpuno zaboravna.

and it's not because of the music, which is totally forgettable.

Već zbog onoga što se dogodilo 1776.

It's because of what happened in 1776 with the Founding Fathers.

s Utemeljiteljima.

The Founding Fathers were, for my point of view,

Utemeljitelji su bili, s moje točke gledišta,

originalni anatomski aktivisti

the original anatomical activists,

i evo zašto.

and this is why.

What they rejected was an anatomical concept

Ono što su odbili bio je anatomski koncept

i zamijenili ga s drugim

and replaced it with another one

that was radical and beautiful and held us for 200 years.

koji je bio radikalan i lijep i održao se 200 godina.

So as you all recall,

Pa stoga, kako se svi sjećate,

what our Founding Fathers were rejecting was a concept of monarchy,

ono što su naši Utemeljitelji odbili bio je koncept monarhije.

A monarhija je zapravo osnovana

and the monarchy was basically based on a very simplistic concept of anatomy.

na veoma jednostavnom konceptu anatomije.

The monarchs of the old world didn't have a concept of DNA,

Monarsi starog svijeta

nisu imali koncept DNK,

but they did have a concept of birthright.

ali su imali koncept prava stečenih rođenjem.

They had a concept of blue blood.

Imali su koncept plave krvi.

They had the idea that the people who would be in political power

Imali su ideju da bi ljudi koji bi imali političku vlast

should be in political power because of the blood being passed down

morali biti na političkoj vlasti

zato što se plava krv prenosi

from grandfather to father to son and so forth.

s djeda na oca do sina i tako dalje.

Utemeljitelji su odbili tu ideju

The Founding Fathers rejected that idea,

i zamijenili je novim anatomskim konceptom,

and they replaced it with a new anatomical concept,

a taj je

and that concept was "all men are created equal."

da su svi ljudi stvoreni jednaki.

They leveled that playing field and decided the anatomy that mattered

Izravnali su to igralište

i odlučili da je anatomija koja je važna

was the commonality of anatomy, not the difference in anatomy,

istovjetnost anatomije,

a ne različitosti u anatomiji.

and that was a really radical thing to do.

I to je bila veoma radikalna stvar za učiniti.

Now they were doing it in part

Radili su to dijelom

because they were part of an Enlightenment system

zato što su bili dio sustava prosvjetiteljstva

where two things were growing up together.

u kojem su dvije stvari rasle zajedno.

And that was democracy growing up,

Tu je demokracija odrastala,

but it was also science growing up at the same time.

ali i znanost u isto vrijeme.

I veoma je jasno, ako pogledate povijest Utemeljitelja,

And it's really clear, if you look at the history of the Founding Fathers,

mnogo njih je bilo veoma zainteresirano za znanost,

a lot of them were very interested in science,

i bili su zainteresirani za koncept

and they were interested in the concept of a naturalistic world.

naturalističkog svijeta.

Udaljavali su se od nadprirodnih objašnjenja

They were moving away from supernatural explanations,

i odbijali stvari poput nadprirodnog koncepta moći

and they were rejecting things like a supernatural concept of power,

koje je prenešeno

where it transmitted because of a very vague concept of birthright.

zbog veoma nejasnog koncepta prava prilikom rođenja.

They were moving towards a naturalistic concept.

Kretali su prema naturalističkom konceptu.

I ako pogledate, na primjer, Deklaraciju neovisnosti,

And if you look, for example, in the Declaration of Independence,

govore o prirodi i prirodnom Bogu.

they talk about nature and nature's God.

They don't talk about God and God's nature.

Ne govore o Bogu i Božjoj prirodi.

Govore o snazi prirode

They're talking about the power of nature to tell us who we are.

da nam kaže tko smo.

So as part of that, they were coming to us with a concept

I kao dio toga,

došli su nam s konceptom

that was about anatomical commonality.

koji je bio o anatomskom zajedništvu.

And in doing so, they were really setting up in a beautiful way

I radeći to, oni su zapravo postavili lijep pravac

pokreta Ljudskih Prava budućnosti.

the Civil Rights Movement of the future.

Nisu razmišljali o tome na taj način, ali su to učinili za nas i bilo je odlično.

They didn't think of it that way, but they did it for us, and it was great.

Pa što se dogodilo godinama nakon toga?

So what happened years afterwards?

Dogodilo se da su žene, na primjer,

What happened was women, for example, who wanted the right to vote,

koje su željele pravo glasa,

took the Founding Fathers' concept of anatomical commonality

uzele koncept Utemeljitelja

o zajedništvu anatomije važnijim

being more important than anatomical difference

od anatomskih razlika

and said, "The fact that we have a uterus and ovaries

i rekle, "Činjenica da imamo maternicu i jajnike

is not significant enough in terms of a difference

nije dovoljno značajna u smislu razlike

to mean that we shouldn't have the right to vote,

toliko da ne bismo trebali imali pravo glasa,

pravo punog državljanstva,

the right to full citizenship, the right to own property, etc."

prava na vlastiti posjed, itd, itd.”

And women successfully argued that.

I žene su to uspješno argumentirale.

Next came the successful Civil Rights Movement,

Sljedeći je stigao uspješan pokret Ljudskih prava

where we found people like Sojourner Truth

gdje smo našli ljude poput Sjourner Truth

talking about, "Ain't I a woman?"

koji pričaju o tome, “Nisam li ja žena?”

We find men on the marching lines of the Civil Rights Movement

Nalazimo muškarce

u kolonama pokreta Ljudskih prava

saying, "I am a man."

kako govore, “Ja sam muškarac.”

Again, people of color appealing to a commonality of anatomy

Opet, ljudi s bojom

apeliraju na jednakost anatomije iznad različitosti anatomije,

over a difference of anatomy, again, successfully.

opet, uspješno.

Vidimo istu stvar s pokretom prava invalida.

We see the same thing with the disability rights movement.

The problem is, of course,

Problem je, naravno,

that, as we begin to look at all that commonality,

da kako počinjemo gledati na tu istovjetnost,

moramo se početi pitati

we have to begin to question why we maintain certain divisions.

zašto održavamo određenu podjelu.

Mind you, I want to maintain some divisions,

Sada vas molim, željela bih održati neke podjele,

anatomske, u našoj kulturi.

anatomically, in our culture.

Na primjer, ne želim

For example, I don't want to give a fish the same rights as a human.

dati ribi ista prava kao i čovjeku.

I don't want to say we give up entirely on anatomy.

Ne želim reći da potpuno odustanemo od anatomije.

Ne želim reći da bi petogodišnjacima

I don't want to say a five-year-old

trebalo biti dopušteno pristati na spolni odnos ili pristati na stupanje u brak.

should be allowed to consent to sex or consent to marry.

So there are some anatomical divisions

Ima nekih anatomskih podjela

that make sense to me and that I think we should retain.

koje za mene imaju smisla i mislim da bismo ih trebali zadržati.

Ali izazov je u pokušaju da shvatimo koji su to

But the challenge is trying to figure out which ones they are

and why do we retain them, and do they have meaning.

i zašto ih zadržati i imaju li smisla.

So let's go back to those two beings conceived at the beginning of this talk.

Dakle, vratimo se onim dvama bićima

koja su začeta na početku ovog govora.

We have two beings, both conceived

Imamo dva bića, oba začeta

in the middle of 1979 on the exact same day.

sredinom 1979. na točno isti dan.

Let's imagine one of them, Mary, is born three months prematurely,

Zamislimo jedno od njih, Mary,

rođena tri mjeseca prerano,

so she's born on June 1, 1980.

dakle rođena je 1. lipnja 1980.

Henry je za razliku, rođen u terminu,

Henry, by contrast, is born at term, so he's born on March 1, 1980.

pa je rođen 1. ožujka 1980.

Simply by virtue of the fact

Jednostavno, po svojstvu činjenice

that Mary was born prematurely three months,

da je Mary rođena tri mjeseca prerano,

njoj pripadaju različita prava

she comes into all sorts of rights three months earlier than Henry does --

tri mjeseca ranije no Henryju --

the right to consent to sex, the right to vote, the right to drink.

pravo na pristanak na spolni odnos,

pravo na glasovanje, pravo na alkohol.

Henry has to wait for all of that,

Henry sve to mora čekati,

not because he's actually any different in age, biologically,

ne zato što je zapravo ikako drugačiji po godinama, biološki,

except in terms of when he was born.

osim po uvjetima u kojima je rođen.

Pronalazimo druge vrste neuobičajenosti u smislu njihovih prava.

We find other kinds of weirdness in terms of what their rights are.

Henry, po svojstvu da se pretpostavlja da je muško --

Henry, by virtue of being assumed to be male --

although I haven't told you that he's the XY one --

iako vam nisam rekla da je on XY --

po svojstvu što je pretpostavljeno da je muško

by virtue of being assumed to be male is now liable to be drafted,

može biti unovačen,

which Mary does not need to worry about.

o čemu se Mary ne mora brinuti.

Mary, meanwhile, cannot in all the states have the same right

Mary, pak, ne može u svim državama

imati ista prava koja Henry ima u svim državama,

that Henry has in all the states,

recimo pravo na udaju.

namely, the right to marry.

Henry u bilo kojoj državi može oženiti djevojku,

Henry can marry, in every state, a woman,

but Mary can only marry today in a few states, a woman.

no Mary se danas može vjenčati sa ženom u samo nekoliko država.

So we have these anatomical categories that persist,

Dakle, imamo ove anatomske kategorije koje perzistiraju

that are in many ways problematic and questionable.

iako su na mnogo načina problematične i upitne.

I pitanje za mene postaje:

And the question to me becomes:

What do we do, as our science gets to be so good in looking at anatomy,

Što da radimo,

dok naša znanost postaje toliko dobra

u proučavanju anatomije,

that we reach the point where we have to admit

da dolazimo do točke u kojoj moramo priznati

that a democracy that's been based on anatomy

da bi se demokracija bazirana na anatomiji

might start falling apart?

mogla raspasti?

Ne želim odustati od znanosti,

I don't want to give up the science, but at the same time,

ali u isto se vrijeme nekako čini da nas ponekad

it feels sometimes like the science is coming out from under us.

znanost neugodno iznenađuje.

Pa kamo idemo?

So where do we go?

Čini se da je to što se događa u našoj kulturi

It seems like what happens in our culture is a sort of pragmatic attitude:

vrsta pragmatičnog stava:

“Pa, moramo povući liniju negdje,

"We have to draw the line somewhere, so we will draw the line somewhere."

pa ćemo je i povući negdje.”

But a lot of people get stuck in a very strange position.

Ali mnogo ljudi zapne u veoma čudnoj poziciji.

Pa na primjer,

So for example, Texas has at one point decided that what it means to marry a man

Texas je u jednom trenutku odlučio

da se vjenčati za muškarca možete

is to mean that you don't have a Y chromosome,

ako nemate Y kromosom,

and what it means to marry a woman means you have a Y chromosome.

a da se vjenčati za ženu možete ako imate Y kromosom.

U praksi zapravo ne testiraju ljude i njihove kromosome.

In practice they don't test people for their chromosomes.

Ali to je također veoma bizarno,

But this is also very bizarre,

zbog priče koju sam vam ispričala na početku

because of the story I told you at the beginning

o sindromu neosjetljivosti na androgene.

about androgen insensitivity syndrome.

Ako pogledamo jednog utemeljitelja moderne demokracije,

If we look at one of the Founding Fathers of modern democracy,

dr. Martina Luthera Kinga,

Dr. Martin Luther King,

he offers us something of a solution in his "I have a dream" speech.

on nam nudi dio rješenja u svom govoru “Imam san.”

Govori da ne bismo smjeli suditi ljudima “ovisno o boji njihove kože,

He says we should judge people "based not on the color of their skin,

već o sadržaju njihovih karaktera”,

but on the content of their character,"

krećući se iznad anatomije.

moving beyond anatomy.

And I want to say, "Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea."

I želim reći, “Da, to zvuči kao veoma dobra ideja.”

But in practice, how do you do it?

Ali kako ćete to učiniti u praksi?

How do you judge people based on the content of character?

Kako suditi ljudima bazirajući se na sadržaju karaktera?

Također želim istaknuti

I also want to point out

that I'm not sure that is how we should distribute rights in terms of humans,

da nisam sigurna kako bismo trebali raspodijeliti prava u smislu ljudi,

jer, moram priznati da postoje zlatni retriveri koje znam

because, I have to admit, that there are some golden retrievers I know

i koji vjerojatno više zaslužuju socijalne usluge

that are probably more deserving of social services than some humans I know.

od nekih ljudi koje poznajem.

Također želim reći da vjerojatno postoje neki zlatni labradori koje znam

I also want to say there are probably also some yellow Labradors that I know

koji su sposobniji u informiranim, inteligentnim i zrelim odlukama

that are more capable of informed, intelligent, mature decisions

o seksualnim odnosima od nekih četrdesetodišnjaka koje poznajem.

about sexual relations than some 40-year-olds that I know.

Pa kako operacionaliziramo

So how do we operationalize the question of content of character?

pitanje sadržaja karaktera?

It turns out to be really difficult.

Ispada da je to veoma teško.

And part of me also wonders,

I dio mene se također pita

what if content of character

što ako sadržaj karaktera

turns out to be something that's scannable in the future --

ispadne kao nešto što se može skenirati u budućnosti --

able to be seen with an fMRI?

što će se moći vidjeti s fMRI?

Želimo li zaista doći do toga?

Do we really want to go there?

Nisam sigurna kamo idemo.

I'm not sure where we go.

What I do know is that it seems to be really important

Ono što znam je da se čini veoma važnim

razmišljati o ideji da je SAD vodeći

to think about the idea of the United States being in the lead

u razmišljanju o ovom ishodu demokracije.

of thinking about this issue of democracy.

Napravili smo veoma dobar posao boreći se s demokracijom,

We've done a really good job struggling with democracy,

i mislim da bismo napravili dobar posao u budućnosti.

and I think we would do a good job in the future.

Nemamo situaciju koju Iran ima gdje, na primjer,

We don't have a situation that Iran has, for example,

muškarca kojega seksualno privlače drugi muškarci

where a man who's sexually attracted to other men

mogu ubiti

is liable to be murdered,

unless he's willing to submit to a sex change,

osim ako nije voljan pristati na promjenu spola,

in which case he's allowed to live.

te će mu u tom slučaju biti dozvoljeno da živi.

Nemamo takvu vrstu situacije.

We don't have that kind of situation.

I'm glad to say we don't have the kind of situation with --

Drago mi je što mogu reći da nemamo vrstu situacije s --

kirurgom s kojim sam pričala prije nekoliko godina

a surgeon I talked to a few years ago

koji je doveo sijamske blizance,

who had brought over a set of conjoined twins

in order to separate them, partly to make a name for himself.

da bi ih razdvojio, djelomično zato da si poveća ugled.

Ali kada sam telefonski razgovarala s njim,

But when I was on the phone with him, asking why he'll do this surgery --

pitajući ga zašto će učiniti ovu operaciju --

a ovo je veoma rizična operacija --

this was a very high-risk surgery -- his answer was that, in this other nation,

njegov odgovor na to je bio, da bi u toj drugoj zemlji,

these children were going to be treated very badly, and so he had to do this.

ova djeca bila tretirana veoma loše, pa je to morao učiniti.

Moj odgovor njemu je bio, “Pa, jeste li razmotrili politički azil

My response to him was, "Well, have you considered political asylum

umjesto operacije razdvajanja?”

instead of a separation surgery?"

The United States has offered tremendous possibility

Sjedinjene su Američke Države ponudile ogromnu mogućnost

for allowing people to be the way they are,

dozvoljavajući ljudima da budu kakvi jesu,

without having them have to be changed for the sake of the state.

bez da se moraju promijeniti zbog koristi države.

So I think we have to be in the lead.

Zato mislim da moramo biti u prednosti.

Kako bih završila, želim vam predložiti

Well, just to close, I want to suggest to you

that I've been talking a lot about the Fathers.

kako sam mnogo razgovarala o Utemeljiteljima, očevima domovine.

I želim razmišljati o mogućnostima

And I want to think about the possibilities

of what democracy might look like, or might have looked like,

kako bi demokracija mogla izgledati ili je mogla izgledati

da smo više uključili majke.

if we had more involved the mothers.

And I want to say something a little bit radical for a feminist,

I želim reći nešto pomalo radikalno za feministicu,

and that is that I think that there may be different kinds of insights

a to je da mislim da bi moglo biti

raznih vrsta spoznaja

that can come from different kinds of anatomies,

koje mogu doći iz raznih vrsta anatomija,

particularly when we have people thinking in groups.

posebno kada imamo ljude koji razmišljaju u grupama.

For years, because I've been interested in intersex,

Sada, već godinama, budući da sam zainteresirana u međuspol,

također sam zainteresirana i u istraživanje spolnih razlika.

I've also been interested in sex-difference research.

I jedna od stvari za koje sam zaista zainteresirana

And one of the things that I've been interested in

je traženje razlika između muškaraca i žena

is looking at the differences between males and females

u smislu načina na koji razmišljaju i funkcioniraju u svijetu.

in terms of the way they think and operate in the world.

I ono što znamo iz multikulturalnih studija

And what we know from cross-cultural studies

is that females, on average --

je da su žene, u prosjeku --

not everyone, but on average --

ne sve, ali u prosjeku --

are more inclined to be very attentive to complex social relations

sklonije da budu vrlo pažljive

prema kompleksim socijalnim odnosima

i zbrinjavanju ljudi

and to taking care of people

who are, basically, vulnerable within the group.

koji su u principu najranjiviji u grupi.

And so if we think about that,

I ako razmišljamo o tome,

imamo zanimljivu situaciju u rukama.

we have an interesting situation in hands.

Prije mnogo godina, kada sam bila na diplomskom studiju,

Years ago, when I was in graduate school,

jedan me od mojih diplomskih savjetnika koji je znao da sam zainteresirana za feminizam --

one of my graduate advisors who knew I was interested in feminism --

smatrala sam sebe feministkinjom, kao što još uvijek smatram --

I considered myself a feminist, as I still do,

pitao veoma čudno pitanje.

asked a really strange question.

Rekao je, “Reci mi što je ženstveno u feminizmu?”

He said, "Tell me what's feminine about feminism."

I pomislila sam, “Pa to je najgluplje pitanje koje sam ikada čula.

And I thought, "Well, that's the dumbest question I've ever heard.

Feminizam je sav o poništavanju stereotipova o spolu,

Feminism is all about undoing stereotypes about gender,

pa tu nema ništa ženstveno u feminizmu.”

so there's nothing feminine about feminism."

But the more I thought about his question,

Ali što sam više razmišljala o tom pitanju,

the more I thought there might be something feminine about feminism.

više sam mislila da možda postoji nešto ženstveno u feminizmu.

Hoću reći, možda postoji nešto, u prosjeku,

That is to say, there might be something, on average,

different about female brains from male brains

drugačije u ženskim mozgovima od muških mozgova

that makes us more attentive to deeply complex social relationships,

što nas čini pažljivijima

prema dubokom kompleksu socijalnih odnosa

and more attentive to taking care of the vulnerable.

i pažljivijima prema čuvanju ranjivih.

So whereas the Fathers were extremely attentive

Pa s obzirom da su očevi bili veoma pažljivi

to figuring out how to protect individuals from the state,

prilikom smišljavanja kako zaštiti pojedince od države,

moguće je da kad bismo uključili više majki

it's possible that if we injected more mothers into this concept,

u taj koncept,

what we would have is more of a concept of not just how to protect,

imali bismo koncept,

ne samo kako zaštititi,

but how to care for each other.

već kako brinuti jedni za druge.

And maybe that's where we need to go in the future,

I možda je to ono kamo trebamo poći u budućnosti,

when we take democracy beyond anatomy,

kada stavimo demokraciju iznad anatomije --

is to think less about the individual body in terms of the identity,

moramo razmišljati manje o individualnom tijelu,

u smislu identiteta,

and think more about those relationships.

i više razmišljati o odnosima.

So that as we the people try to create a more perfect union,

Tako da mi kao ljudi pokušamo stvoriti savršeniju zajednicu,

razmišljajući što radimo jedni za druge.

we're thinking about what we do for each other.

Hvala vam.

Thank you.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)