Pamela Ronald: The case for engineering our food

翻译人员: HyeJin Kim 校对人员: Liu Jinyu

I am a plant geneticist.

我是一个植物遗传学家。

I study genes that make plants resistant to disease

我研究一些能使植物抵抗疾病

and tolerant of stress.

和耐抗压的基因。

In recent years,

在最近几年来，

millions of people around the world have come to believe

世界上成千上万的人相信

that there's something sinister about genetic modification.

转基因改造存在灾害性。

Today, I am going to provide a different perspective.

今天，我将要提出一个不同的观点。

First, let me introduce my husband, Raoul.

首先，让我介绍我的丈夫，拉乌尔。

He's an organic farmer.

他是一个有机农民。

On his farm, he plants a variety of different crops.

在他的农田里，他种着各种不同的农作物。

This is one of the many ecological farming practices

这是许多生态农业试验的其中一个

he uses to keep his farm healthy.

用来保持他的农田健康的实践。

Imagine some of the reactions we get:

试想一些我们会得到的反应：

"Really? An organic farmer and a plant geneticist?

“真的吗？一个有机农民和一个植物遗传学家？

Can you agree on anything?"

你们能达成什么共识？“

Well, we can, and it's not difficult, because we have the same goal.

嗯，我们可以，而且这并不困难， 因为我们有共同的目标。

We want to help nourish the growing population

我们想帮助滋养不断增长的人口

without further destroying the environment.

而不进一步破坏环境。

I believe this is the greatest challenge of our time.

我相信这是我们时代的巨大挑战。

Now, genetic modification is not new;

如今，基因改造不是新事物，

virtually everything we eat has been genetically modified

事实上我们吃的所有食物都在一定程度上

in some manner.

被基因改造了。

Let me give you a few examples.

让我来给你举几个例子。

On the left is an image

左边的图片是

of the ancient ancestor of modern corn.

现代玉米的古老祖先。

You see a single roll of grain that's covered in a hard case.

你看到一行覆盖着硬壳的玉米粒。

Unless you have a hammer,

除非你有一个锤子，

teosinte isn't good for making tortillas.

墨西哥类蜀黍不适用于制作墨西哥饼。

Now, take a look at the ancient ancestor of banana.

现在，看一下古老的香蕉祖先。

You can see the large seeds.

你能看到巨大的种子。

And unappetizing brussel sprouts,

和引不起食欲的芽甘蓝，

and eggplant, so beautiful.

和茄子，如此美丽。

Now, to create these varieties,

如今，为了创造这些变种，

breeders have used many different genetic techniques over the years.

多年来培育者已经用了很多不同的基因技术。

Some of them are quite creative,

其中一些是相当有创造性的，

like mixing two different species together

例如利用一个叫嫁接的程序

using a process called grafting

把两种不同的品种结合在一起

to create this variety that's half tomato and half potato.

来创造一个一半是蕃茄 和一半是土豆的品种。

Breeders have also used other types of genetic techniques,

培育者还使用其它种类的基因技术，

such as random mutagenesis,

例如随机突变，

which induces uncharacterized mutations

能让植物产生非典型的

into the plants.

突变基因。

The rice in the cereal that many of us fed our babies

许多人用来喂婴儿的谷物大米，

was developed using this approach.

就是用上述的方法改进的。

Now, today, breeders have even more options to choose from.

现在，今天，培育者甚至有更多的选择。

Some of them are extraordinarily precise.

其中很多是非常精确的。

I want to give you a couple examples from my own work.

我想从我的工作中给大家举几个例子。

I work on rice, which is a staple food for more than half the world's people.

我研究大米， 这是多于全世界一半人口的主粮。

Each year, 40 percent of the potential harvest

每一年，有40%的潜在粮食产量

is lost to pest and disease.

都损失于虫害和疾病。

For this reason, farmers plant rice varieties

为此，农民种植携带耐抗性基因的

that carry genes for resistance.

大米品种。

This approach has been used for nearly 100 years.

这种方法已经被用了将近100年。

Yet, when I started graduate school,

但是，当我开始在研究院时，

no one knew what these genes were.

还没有人知道这些基因是什么。

It wasn't until the 1990s that scientists finally uncovered

直到90年代才有科学家最终发现

the genetic basis of resistance.

耐抗性的基因基础。

In my laboratory, we isolated a gene for immunity to a very serious

在我的实验室里， 为了免疫一种在亚非都很严重的细菌性疾病

bacterial disease in Asia and Africa.

我们分离了一个基因。

We found we could engineer the gene into a conventional rice variety

我们发现我们可以把这个基因 移到一种通常容易染病的

that's normally susceptible,

传统大米品种，

and you can see the two leaves on the bottom here

而且你可以看到底下的两片叶子

are highly resistant to infection.

都很好地抵抗了感染。

Now, the same month that my laboratory published

现在，同一个月里我的研究室发布了

our discovery on the rice immunity gene,

我们对大米免疫基因的发现，

my friend and colleague Dave Mackill stopped by my office.

我的朋友和同事 Dave Mackill 探访了我的办公室。

He said, "Seventy million rice farmers are having trouble growing rice."

他说：“七千万的大米农民正有种植大米的困难。”

That's because their fields are flooded,

那是因为他们的农田都被洪水淹没了，

and these rice farmers are living on less than two dollars a day.

那些农民每天靠着不够2美元来生活。

Although rice grows well in standing water,

虽然大米能很好地在积水里生长，

most rice varieties will die if they're submerged

但是如果它们被淹3天以上，

for more than three days.

大部分的大米品种都会死掉。

Flooding is expected to be increasingly problematic

随着天气的改变，

as the climate changes.

洪灾的发生越来越不确定。

He told me that his graduate student Kenong Xu and himself

他告诉我他的研究生 Kenong Xu 和他自己

were studying an ancient variety of rice that had an amazing property.

正在研究一种拥有惊人性能的古老大米品种，

It could withstand two weeks of complete submergence.

它能够在被完全淹没的情况下生存两周。

He asked if I would be willing to help them isolate this gene.

他问我是否愿意帮他们分离这个基因。

I said yes -- I was very excited, because I knew if we were successful,

我答应了他，我非常激动， 因为我知道如果我们能成功，

we could potentially help millions of farmers grow rice

我们可能可以帮助无数的农民种植大米，

even when their fields were flooded.

即使他们的农田被淹没。

Kenong spent 10 years looking for this gene.

Kenong 花了10年来寻找这个基因。

Then one day, he said,

然后有一天，他说：

"Come look at this experiment. You've got to see it."

”请来看看这个实验。你一定要来看。“

I went to the greenhouse and I saw

我去到温室看到

that the conventional variety that was flooded for 18 days had died,

传统品种被淹18天后死了，

but the rice variety that we had genetically engineered

但是被我们通过基因改造

with a new gene we had discovered, called Sub1, was alive.

植入之前发现的叫 Sub 1的新基因的大米品种存活了。

Kenong and I were amazed and excited

Kenong 和我都很惊讶和兴奋，

that a single gene could have this dramatic effect.

一个基因能够有如此巨大的影响。

But this is just a greenhouse experiment.

但是这只是一个温室实验。

Would this work in the field?

这在田地中是否也能成功呢？

Now, I'm going to show you a four-month time lapse video

现在，我将要给大家展示一个在国际大米研究所拍摄的

taken at the International Rice Research Institute.

时长4个月定时拍摄的视频。

Breeders there developed a rice variety carrying the Sub1 gene

那里的培育者利用另一种叫精准培育的基因技术

using another genetic technique called precision breeding.

培育了一种携带 Sub 1 基因的大米品种。

On the left, you can see the Sub1 variety,

在左边，你可以看到 Sub 1 品种，

and on the right is the conventional variety.

在右边的是传统品种。

Both varieties do very well at first,

两个品种开始都长得很好，

but then the field is flooded for 17 days.

但是接下来农田被淹了17天。

You can see the Sub1 variety does great.

你可以看到 Sub 1 品种长得极好。

In fact, it produces three and a half times more grain

实际上，它还可以生产比传统品种多

than the conventional variety.

3.5倍的谷物。

I love this video

我很喜欢这个视频

because it shows the power of plant genetics to help farmers.

因为它展示了植物遗传学帮助农民的力量。

Last year, with the help of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,

上一年， 在比尔和梅林达盖茨基金会的帮助下，

three and a half million farmers grew Sub1 rice.

三百五十万农民种植了 Sub 1 大米。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

Thank you.

谢谢。

Now, many people don't mind genetic modification

现在，

when it comes to moving rice genes around,

当我们在别处使用大米基因，

rice genes in rice plants,

把大米基因用在大米农作物上，

or even when it comes to mixing species together

或者甚至通过移植 或随机突变把它和其它品种结合起来，

through grafting or random mutagenesis.

很多人都不会反对基因改造。

But when it comes to taking genes from viruses and bacteria

但是当我们从病毒或者细菌上提取基因

and putting them into plants,

然后植入到农作物上，

a lot of people say, "Yuck."

许多人都说：”不好。“

Why would you do that?

大家为什么会这样呢？

The reason is that sometimes it's the cheapest, safest,

原因是有时候就是最便宜，最安全，

and most effective technology

和最有效率的科技

for enhancing food security and advancing sustainable agriculture.

才能提高食物的安全性和改进可持续农业。

I'm going to give you three examples.

我会给大家三个例子。

First, take a look at papaya. It's delicious, right?

首先，看一下木瓜。很美味，是吗？

But now, look at this papaya.

但是现在，看一下这个木瓜。

This papaya is infected with papaya ringspot virus.

这个木瓜被感染了木瓜环斑病病毒。

In the 1950s, this virus nearly wiped out the entire production

50年代，这种病毒几乎感染了夏威夷欧胡岛

of papaya on the island of Oahu in Hawaii.

的全部木瓜作物。

Many people thought that the Hawaiian papaya was doomed,

许多人认为夏威夷木瓜肯定完了，

but then, a local Hawaiian,

然而，一个本地夏威夷人，

a plant pathologist named Dennis Gonsalves,

一个叫丹尼斯·贡萨斐斯的植物病理学家，

decided to try to fight this disease using genetic engineering.

决定尝试利用基因工程来对抗这种疾病。

He took a snippet of viral DNA and he inserted it

他提取了一小片病毒DNA

into the papaya genome.

然后把它插入木瓜的基因组中。

This is kind of like a human getting a vaccination.

这就像人类接种疫苗。

Now, take a look at his field trial.

现在，看一下他的农场试验。

You can see the genetically engineered papaya in the center.

你可以看到被基因改造了的木瓜在中间。

It's immune to infection.

它不受感染的影响。

The conventional papaya around the outside is severely infected with the virus.

环绕在外的传统木瓜则被病毒严重感染了。

Dennis' pioneering work is credited with rescuing the papaya industry.

丹尼斯的先驱性工作援救了木瓜行业 而受到赞扬。

Today, 20 years later, there's still no other method to control this disease.

今天，20年之后， 我们仍然没有其它方法控制这种病毒。

There's no organic method. There's no conventional method.

没有有机的方法。也没有传统的方法。

Eighty percent of Hawaiian papaya is genetically engineered.

80%的夏威夷木瓜都是基因改造过的。

Now, some of you may still feel a little queasy about viral genes in your food,

如今，可能有些人 还为食物中有病毒基因而感到一点不安，

but consider this:

但想一想：

The genetically engineered papaya carries just a trace amount of the virus.

被基因改造的木瓜只是携带了微量的病毒。

If you bite into an organic or conventional papaya

如果你咬一口被病毒感染的

that is infected with the virus,

有机的或传统木瓜，

you will be chewing on tenfold more viral protein.

你会嚼着多于十倍的病毒蛋白质。

Now, take a look at this pest feasting on an eggplant.

现在，看一下这只正在吃着茄子的害虫。

The brown you see is frass,

你看到的棕色物质是虫粪，

what comes out the back end of the insect.

它是从害虫子的后端出来的。

To control this serious pest,

为了控制这种可以摧毁

which can devastate the entire eggplant crop in Bangladesh,

孟加拉国所有茄子作物的严重害虫，

Bangladeshi farmers spray insecticides

孟加拉国的农民每个星期喷射

two to three times a week,

两至三次的杀虫剂，

sometimes twice a day, when pest pressure is high.

有时候当虫害严重时一天两次。

But we know that some insecticides are very harmful to human health,

但是我们知道 一些杀虫剂对人体健康有很大害处，

especially when farmers and their families

尤其当农民和他们的家人

cannot afford proper protection, like these children.

负担不起恰当的安全措施，就如这些孩子。

In less developed countries, it's estimated that 300,000 people

在欠发达国家里，据估计每年有30万人

die every year because of insecticide misuse and exposure.

死于杀虫剂的滥用和暴露。

Cornell and Bangladeshi scientists decided to fight this disease

康奈尔和孟加拉国的科学家决定使用一种

using a genetic technique that builds on an organic farming approach.

建立在有机农业方法上的基因技术 来对抗这场疾病。

Organic farmers like my husband Raoul spray an insecticide called B.T.,

有机农民，如我的丈夫乌拉尔， 喷洒一种以细菌为基础的

which is based on a bacteria.

叫 B.T. 的杀虫剂。

This pesticide is very specific to caterpillar pests,

这种杀虫剂对毛虫很特别，

and in fact, it's nontoxic to humans, fish and birds.

实际上，它对人类，鱼和鸟都没有毒性。

It's less toxic than table salt.

它比食盐的毒性更小。

But this approach does not work well in Bangladesh.

但这种方法在孟加拉国作用不大，

That's because these insecticide sprays

因为这种杀虫剂

are difficult to find, they're expensive,

很难得到，它们很贵，

and they don't prevent the insect from getting inside the plants.

而且它们不能阻止害虫进入植物里。

In the genetic approach, scientists cut the gene out of the bacteria

在基因方法里，科学家从细菌里切出一个基因

and insert it directly into the eggplant genome.

然后把它直接放进茄子的基因组里。

Will this work to reduce insecticide sprays in Bangladesh?

这个方法能不能够减低杀虫剂在孟加拉国的使用呢？

Definitely.

当然可以。

Last season, farmers reported they were able to reduce their insecticide use

上一个季节，农民回应他们已经可以

by a huge amount, almost down to zero.

大大地减少杀虫剂的使用，几乎不需要使用。

They're able to harvest and replant for the next season.

他们能够收割庄稼和为下一季度重新种植。

Now, I've given you a couple examples of how genetic engineering can be used

现在，我已经给大家举了几个例子 关于基因工程

to fight pests and disease

如何能够用来抵抗害虫和疾病

and to reduce the amount of insecticides.

和用来减少杀虫剂的使用量。

My final example is an example

我最后的例子是关于

where genetic engineering can be used to reduce malnutrition.

基因工程在哪里能够被用来减低营养不良。

In less developed countries,

在欠发达国家，

500,000 children go blind every year because of lack of Vitamin A.

每年有50万儿童因缺乏维生素A而失明。

More than half will die.

一半以上会死亡。

For this reason, scientists supported by the Rockefeller Foundation

基于这个原因，科学家在洛克菲勒基金的支持下，

genetically engineered a golden rice

从基因上设计了一种能够生产 β-胡萝卜素的

to produce beta-carotene, which is the precursor of Vitamin A.

维生素A先驱的黄金大米。

This is the same pigment that we find in carrots.

这是我们在胡萝卜里找到的同样色素。

Researchers estimate that just one cup of golden rice per day

研究人员估计每天只要一杯黄金大米

will save the lives of thousands of children.

就可以拯救上千的儿童。

But golden rice is virulently opposed

但是黄金大米被反对基因工程的积极份子

by activists who are against genetic modification.

大力反对。

Just last year,

就在上一年，

activists invaded and destroyed a field trial in the Philippines.

积极份子们侵入和毁坏了在菲律宾的一片试验田。

When I heard about the destruction,

当我听到试验田被毁坏时，

I wondered if they knew that they were destroying much more

我在想他们是否知道他们毁坏的

than a scientific research project,

不止是一个科学研究项目，

that they were destroying medicines that children desperately needed

他们毁坏的是孩子们迫切需要的

to save their sight and their lives.

用来挽救他们视力和生命的药物。

Some of my friends and family still worry:

我的一些朋友和家人仍然很担心：

How do you know genes in the food are safe to eat?

你怎么知道食物里的基因是安全可吃的？

I explained the genetic engineering,

我解释了基因工程，

the process of moving genes between species,

在物种间移取基因的方法已经

has been used for more than 40 years

在酒中，在药物中，在植物中，在芝士中

in wines, in medicine, in plants, in cheeses.

被运用了40多年。

In all that time, there hasn't been a single case of harm

一直以来，都没有一个对人类健康或者环境

to human health or the environment.

造成伤害的个案。

But I say, look, I'm not asking you to believe me.

但是我并不是要求你要相信我。

Science is not a belief system.

科学不是一个信仰体系。

My opinion doesn't matter.

我的观点不重要。

Let's look at the evidence.

我们相信的是证据。

After 20 years of careful study and rigorous peer review

经过20多年由成千上万独立的科学家

by thousands of independent scientists,

谨慎的研究和严格的同业互查，

every major scientific organization in the world has concluded

世界上每一个主要的科学机构已经断定

that the crops currently on the market are safe to eat

市场上的所有庄稼都是可安全食用的

and that the process of genetic engineering

而且转基因的方法

is no more risky than older methods of genetic modification.

没有比传统基因改造方法更危险。

These are precisely the same organizations that most of us trust

这些机构恰好是大部份人在其它重要科学问题上，

when it comes to other important scientific issues

例如全球气候改变或者疫苗安全问题上

such as global climate change or the safety of vaccines.

都会相信的同样的机构

Raoul and I believe that, instead of worrying about the genes in our food,

乌拉尔和我相信，与其担心食物中的基因，

we must focus on how we can help children grow up healthy.

我们更需要关注如何帮助儿童健康成长。

We must ask if farmers in rural communities can thrive,

我们必需问一问农村社区的农民是否能够营生，

and if everyone can afford the food.

和每个人是否都能买得起食物。

We must try to minimize environmental degradation.

我们必需努力将环境退化最小化。

What scares me most about the loud arguments and misinformation

关于对植物基因激烈的争论和错误的信息

about plant genetics

最令我害怕的是

is that the poorest people who most need the technology

那些最需要这种科技的最贫穷的人 可能失去食物

may be denied access because of the vague fears and prejudices

正是因为一些有足够

of those who have enough to eat.

食物的人的不明确的忧虑和偏见。

We have a huge challenge in front of us.

在我们前面有着巨大的挑战。

Let's celebrate scientific innovation and use it.

让我们庆祝和利用科学的创新。

It's our responsibility

这是我们的责任

to do everything we can to help alleviate human suffering

去做任何我们可以做的事情

and safeguard the environment.

来帮助减轻人类遭受的磨难和保卫环境。

Thank you.

谢谢！

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you.

谢谢！

Chris Anderson: Powerfully argued.

克里斯·安德森：热烈地争论了。

The people who argue against GMOs,

反对转基因生物的人，

as I understand it, the core piece comes from two things.

就我理解而言，主要的批评来自于两点。

One, complexity and unintended consequence.

一点是复杂性和不可预料的结果。

Nature is this incredibly complex machine.

大自然是这样一个非常复杂的机器。

If we put out these brand new genes that we've created,

如果我们拿出这些我们所创造的崭新的

that haven't been challenged by years of evolution,

没有经过长年进化演变的基因，

and they started mixing up with the rest of what's going on,

然后让它们和现有的基因开始的混合一起，

couldn't that trigger some kind of cataclysm or problem,

难道不会引发一些大变动或者问题吗？

especially when you add in the commercial incentive

尤其当你加进

that some companies have to put them out there?

由一些企业已经摆出的商业动机。

The fear is that those incentives

这些忧虑是那些动机

mean that the decision is not made on purely scientific grounds,

意味着作出的决定不是基于纯粹的科学依据，

and even if it was, that there would be unintended consequences.

就算是，那也会有不可预料的后果。

How do we know that there isn't a big risk of some unintended consequence?

我们怎么知道没有不可预计的后果的大风险呢？

Often our tinkerings with nature do lead to big, unintended consequences

往往地我们对大自然的小修改 会导致很大的，不可预知的后果

and chain reactions.

和连锁反应。

Pamela Ronald: Okay, so on the commercial aspects,

帕梅拉·罗纳德：好，那么在商业影响下，

one thing that's really important to understand is that,

有一点非常值得理解的是，

in the developed world, farmers in the United States,

在发达国家，在美国的农民，

almost all farmers, whether they're organic or conventional,

几乎所有的农民， 不论他们是有机的还是传统的，

they buy seed produced by seed companies.

他们买种子公司生产的种子。

So there's definitely a commercial interest to sell a lot of seed,

所以这里当然有商业利益去卖许多的种子，

but hopefully they're selling seed that the farmers want to buy.

但是希望他们卖的是农民想买的种子。

It's different in the less developed world.

在欠发达世界就不同了。

Farmers there cannot afford the seed.

那里的农民买不起的某些种子

These seeds are not being sold.

那些种子就不会被销售。

These seeds are being distributed freely

这些种子通过传统的

through traditional kinds of certification groups,

有资格认证的团体被自由分配，

so it is very important in less developed countries

因此，在欠发达国家

that the seed be freely available.

种子能不受限制地被使用是很重要的。

CA: Wouldn't some activists say that this is actually part of the conspiracy?

CA: 会不会有一些积极分子会说 这实际上是阴谋的一部份呢？

This is the heroin strategy.

这是海洛因策略。

You seed the stuff, and people have no choice

你种植东西，人们没有选择

but to be hooked on these seeds forever?

却永远沉溺于这些东西？

PR: There are a lot of conspiracy theories for sure, but it doesn't work that way.

PR: 确实有很多阴谋论，但这是不一样的。

For example, the seed that's being distributed, the flood-tolerant rice,

例如，被分配的种子，耐渍型大米，

this is distributed freely

通过印度和孟加拉国

through Indian and Bangladeshi seed certification agencies,

种子认定机构被自由分配，

so there's no commercial interest at all.

这样就没有了商业利益。

The golden rice was developed through support of the Rockefeller Foundation.

黄金大米是在洛克菲勒基金的支持下发展的。

Again, it's being freely distributed.

同样地，也是被自由分发的。

There are no commercial profits

在这种情况下

in this situation.

没有商业利益。

And now to address your other question about, well, mixing genes,

现在来讨论一下其它问题，嗯，关于混合基因，

aren't there some unintended consequences?

这会有什么不可预料的结果吗？

Absolutely -- every time we do something different,

当然 -- 每次我们做不一样的事情

there's an unintended consequence,

都会有想像不到的后果，

but one of the points I was trying to make

但是我想说的其中一点是

is that we've been doing kind of crazy things to our plants,

我们一直对我们植物做的看似疯狂的事情，

mutagenesis using radiation or chemical mutagenesis.

用辐射或化学诱变产生基因变异。

This induces thousands of uncharacterized mutations,

这包含上千个不确定的突变，

and this is even a higher risk of unintended consequence

而且这比起许多现代方法有着

than many of the modern methods.

甚至更高的的不确定后果风险。

And so it's really important not to use the term GMO

因此十分重要的不能使用基因改造生物

because it's scientifically meaningless.

因为在科学上是没意义的。

I feel it's very important to talk about a specific crop

我认为讨论关于特定的农作物

and a specific product, and think about the needs of the consumer.

和特定的产品，和考虑消费者的需要是很重要的。

CA: So part of what's happening here is that there's a mental model

CA: 在很多人中有一种思维模式，

in a lot of people that nature is nature, and it's pure and pristine,

就是天然就是天然，它是纯粹的和原始的

and to tinker with it is Frankensteinian.

若是稍作修改就是作法自毙。

It's making something that's pure dangerous in some way,

这种想法在一定程度上很危险，

and I think you're saying that that whole model

而且我想你指的是那整个模式

just misunderstands how nature is.

是误会了自然的本质。

Nature is a much more chaotic interplay of genetic changes

在自然中，基因改变的相互作用更混乱得多，

that have been happening all the time anyway.

而且是无论如何一直在发生着的。

PR: That's absolutely true, and there's no such thing as pure food.

PR：没错， 而且这里没有一种东西是纯正的食物。

I mean, you could not spray eggplant with insecticides

我的意思是，如果你不可以喷洒杀虫剂

or not genetically engineer it, but then you'd be stuck eating frass.

或者改造基因，那你就只能吃虫粪了。

So there's no purity there.

因此是没有纯粹的东西的。

CA: Pam Ronald, thank you. That was powerfully argued.

CA：帕姆·罗纳德，谢谢。很有说服力的演说。

PR: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

PR：非常感谢！我很感激！

(Applause)

（掌声）