Brenda Romero: Gaming for understanding

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

翻译人员: Wei Wu 校对人员: Cheng Sha

When we think of games, there's all kinds of things.

当我们提起游戏时，脑海中会浮现很多回忆。

或许你被某个游戏折磨得够呛，或许你正在期待着

Maybe you're ticked off, or maybe, you're looking forward to a new game.

一款新游戏，或许你为了玩游戏而熬夜。

You've been up too late playing a game.

所有这些都发生在我身上。

All these things happen to me.

但是大部分时候，当我们想到“游戏”

But when we think about games,

通常想到的是： 第一人称射击游戏，或者大型的

a lot of times we think about stuff like this:

我们称之为3A级的游戏，

first-person shooters, or the big, what we would call AAA games,

或者，你喜欢玩Facebook里的小游戏。

or maybe you're a Facebook game player.

这是我跟搭档一起设计的一款游戏。

This is one my partner and I worked on.

如果你玩Facebook游戏，这就是我们

现在正在设计的游戏。这是一种小型的游戏。

Maybe you play Facebook games, and that's what we're making right now.

或许你想到的是那些极为无聊的棋盘游戏

This is a lighter form of game.

Maybe you think about the tragically boring board games

那些我们在感恩节时不得不玩的游戏。

that hold us hostage in Thanksgiving situations.

这个游戏就是那些你能想到的非常无聊的

This would be one of the tragically boring board games that you can figure out.

棋盘游戏之一。

又或许你在客厅里，

Or maybe you're in your living room,

与孩子们一起玩Wii或者类似的游戏。

playing with the Wii with the kids,

and there's this whole range of games, and that's very much what I think about.

另外，还有各种各样的游戏，

这差不多就是我所能想到的游戏种类。

I make my living from games, I've been lucky enough to do this

我以设计游戏为生。我很幸运

能够15岁就从事这行，另一方面这也意味着

since I was 15, which also qualifies as I've never really had a real job.

我从没有过一份真正的工作。

But we think about games as fun, and that's completely reasonable,

人们认为游戏是有趣的，这是完全合理的，

但让我们从另一个角度来想一想。

but let's just think about this.

So this one here, this is the 1980 Olympics.

请看这张照片，这是1980年的奥运会（美苏曲棍球比赛）。

我不清楚你们当时在什么地方，当时我在

Now I don't know where you guys were,

but I was in my living room.

我家的客厅里。这场比赛实际上是一次意识形态的对抗。

It was practically a religious event.

照片上就是美国队击败苏联队的瞬间，

And this is when the Americans beat the Russians,

and this was -- yes, it was technically a game.

这是——是的，从技术上讲仍是一种游戏。

曲棍球是一种游戏。但说真的，这场比赛算是“游戏”吗？

Hockey is a game.

But really, was this a game?

我的意思是，有人因此哭泣。我从没见过我母亲在玩完

I mean, people cried.

I've never seen my mother cry like that at the end of Monopoly.

《大富翁》之后会哭成那样。

(Laughter)

And so this was an amazing experience.

所以这只是一次“绝妙的体验”。

Or, if anybody here is from Boston --

或者，如果这里有谁是从波士顿来的

So when the Boston Red Sox won the World Series

当波士顿红袜队再次赢得世界冠军，

after I believe, 351 years --

我想，距上次夺冠应该有351年了，

(Laughter)

when they won the World Series, it was amazing.

当他们赢得了世界冠军，这真令人惊叹。

I happened to be living in Springfield at the time,

当时我刚好住在斯普林菲尔德（Springfield，和波士顿一个州）

最精彩的部分是——

and the best part of it was,

you would close the women's door in the bathroom,

如果你到女厕所，关上门

and I remember seeing "Go Sox," and I thought, really?

我记得看到门上写着"加油，红袜队"，我当时想，不是吧？

Or the houses, you'd come out, because every game,

另外大家都会从屋子里跑出来，因为每一场比赛，

嗯，我记得几乎每一场比赛都会进入加时赛，对吗？

well, I think almost every game, went into overtime, right?

So we'd be outside, and all the other lights are on in the whole block.

所以我们会到户外，周围所有的灯都亮着

整个街区都亮着，而孩子们逃课变得比较普遍

And kids -- the attendance was down in school,

他们都不怎么去上学了。

kids weren't going to school, but it's OK, it's the Red Sox, right?

但这没什么，因为是红袜队，对吧？

I mean, there's education, and then there's the Red Sox,

我的意思是，一方面是上学，然后一方面是红袜队，

我们知道它们孰轻孰重。

and we know where they're stacked.

So this was an amazing experience,

所以这是一种“绝妙的体验”，而且再一次——是的，

and again, yes, it was a game, but they didn't write newspaper articles,

这是一场游戏，但他们没在报纸上写文章，

因为人们不会说——你知道，真的，“我现在感觉快死了

people didn't say, "You know, really, I can die now, because the Red Sox won."

因为红袜队赢了比赛。” 其实很多人那样说了。

And many people did.

所以“游戏”对我们而言有更多的意义。

So games, it means something more to us.

It absolutely means something more.

它绝对拥有更多的意义。

So now, this is an abrupt transition here.

现在切换一下话题

有三年时间，我有了真正的工作（在某种程度上算）

There was three years where I actually did have a real job, sort of.

我担任了一个学院部门的主管

I was the head of a college department teaching games,

负责教游戏，算是某种意义上的真正的工作，

so, again, it was sort of a real job,

and now I got to talk about making them as opposed to making them.

而现在我只是谈一谈做游戏而不是真正的去做出来。

有一次我参加了一个宴会。当你是一个部门头头的时候，

Part of the job of it, when you're a chair of a department,

你的工作之一就是“吃”，这项工作我完成的很好。

is to eat, and I did that very well --

某次宴会上我认识了这这个人，叫齐格·杰克逊。

and so I'm out at a dinner with this guy called Zig Jackson.

So this is Zig in this photograph, this is also one of Zig's photographs.

这张照片里的人就是齐格，他自己的摄影作品。

他是一名摄影师。

He's a photographer.

他在全国各地跑来跑去，为自己拍照，

And he goes all around the country taking pictures of himself,

在这张照片里你可以看到他的

and you can see here he's got Zig's Indian Reservation.

“印第安人保留地”系列照片。再来看这一张，

And this particular shot --

this is one of the more traditional shots.

这是较传统的照片之一。这是一位祈雨舞者。

This is a rain dancer.

And this is one of my favorite shots here.

这也是我最喜爱的照片之一。

So you can look at this, and maybe you've even seen things like this.

接下来我们来看这张照片，也许你曾经看到过

类似的东西。这是一种文化的表达，对吗？

This is an expression of culture, right?

And this is actually from his Degradation series.

这张照片实际上是他的“退化”系列中的一张。

And what was most fascinating to me about this series

这个系列最吸引我的是，

is just, look at that little boy there, can you imagine?

看看那里那个小男孩。

你能想象吗？现在，我们可以看到这是一位典型的

We can see that's a traditional Native American.

Now I just want to change that guy's race.

美洲原住民。现在我想改变那家伙的种族。

Just imagine if that's a black guy.

想象一下，如果这是一个黑人。

So, "Honey, come here, let's get you a picture with the black guy." Right?

然后，"亲爱的，到这里来，我们来给你和这个黑人拍张照。"

是吗？说真的，没有人会这么做。

Like, seriously, nobody would do this.

这个想法太使人困惑了。齐格，作为印第安人，

It baffles the mind.

And so Zig, being Indian, likewise it baffles his mind.

同样感到困惑。他最喜欢的照片——

His favorite photograph --

my favorite photograph of his, which I don't have in here --

也是我最喜欢的一张，但这里没有——

是一个印第安人正在拍摄一个给印第安人拍照的

is Indian taking picture of white people taking pictures of Indians.

白人的照片。（笑声）

(Laughter)

So I happen to be at dinner with this photographer,

总之我碰巧与这个摄影师参加同一个宴会，

and he was talking with another photographer

当时他正与另一个摄影师谈论

about a shooting that had occurred,

一起刚刚发生的枪击案，

and it was on an Indian Reservation.

发生在印第安人保留区。他当时带了相机

He'd taken his camera up there to photograph it,

准备到那里拍照，但当他到了那儿，

but when he got there, he discovered he couldn't do it.

他发现他做不到。他总是没有办法按下快门。

所以他们翻来覆去地讨论这一问题

He just couldn't capture the picture.

And so they were talking back and forth about this question.

你会拍摄枪击案的照片么？

Do you take the picture or not?

And that was fascinating to me as a game designer,

他们的对话让我有了从未有过的想法，

because it never occurs to me,

比如，作为一个游戏设计者，我是否应该

should I make the game about this difficult topic or not?

设计涉及沉重主题的游戏？

Because we just make things that are fun

我们通常制作的游戏都是有趣的，或是让人恐惧的

or will make you feel fear, that visceral excitement.

你知道，那种让人本能地感到兴奋的游戏。

But every other medium does it.

但所有其他的媒介都会这么做。

So this is my kid.

这是我的孩子，Maezza，

This is Maezza, and when she was seven years old,

她七岁的时候，有一天她放学回家，

she came home from school one day,

and like I do every single day, I asked her, "What did you do today?"

我像平常一样问她，

"今天你过的怎么样?"

她说："我们今天讨论了中央航路。"（横渡大西洋贩卖黑奴的航线）

So she said, "We talked about the Middle Passage."

这是一个重大的时刻。Maezza 的爸爸是黑人，

Now, this was a big moment. Maezza's dad is black,

and I knew this day was coming.

而我知道这一天迟早会来。但真没想到会是在她

I wasn't expecting it at seven, I don't know why, but I wasn't.

只有七岁的时候。我不知道为什么，但我确实没想到。

Anyways, so I asked her, "How do you feel about that?"

于是，我接着问她：“你感觉怎么样？”

她接着告诉我，用你们中任何一位

So she proceeded to tell me,

and so any of you who are parents will recognize the bingo buzzwords here.

为人父母者都熟悉的“宾果流行语”来回答

"The ships start in England, they come down from England,

一开始那些船舶在英国，它们向下航行，

离开英国，来到非洲，又跨越大洋——

they go to Africa, they go across the ocean --

这就是中央航路的部分——它们来到美国

that's the Middle Passage part --

they come to America, where the slaves are sold," she's telling me.

在那里出售奴隶”，她告诉我。

"但亚伯拉罕 · 林肯当选为总统，然后，

But Abraham Lincoln was elected president,

他通过了奴隶解放宣言，所以现在他们自由了。”

and then he passed the Emancipation Proclamation,

暂停了大约10 秒钟。

and now they're free.

Pause for about 10 seconds.

"Can I play a game, Mommy?"

"我可以玩游戏了吗，妈妈?"

而我想，这就完了？因为，你知道，

And I thought, that's it? And so, you know,

this is the Middle Passage, this is an incredibly significant event,

这是可是中央航路，这是一件难以置信的重大事件，

但她看待它就像是一些黑人

and she's treating it like, basically some black people went on a cruise,

去参加一次乘船游览，

this is more or less how it sounds to her.

她差不多就是这种感觉。（笑声）

(Laughter)

对我来说，我希望其中有更多意义，所以

And so, to me, I wanted more value in this,

so when she asked if she could play a game, I said, "Yes."

当她问我是否可以玩游戏时，我说，

"可以。"（笑声）（omfg=oh my f*king god）

(Laughter)

And so I happened to have all of these little pieces.

碰巧我有很多这种小玩具。

我是一个游戏设计师，所以我家到处都是这些东西。

I'm a game designer, so I have this stuff sitting around my house.

于是我说，"是啊，你可以玩游戏，"之后我给了她

I said, "Yeah, you can play a game," and I give her a bunch of these,

一些这种小玩具，然后我让她给他们上色

表示不同的家庭成员。这些照片都是 Maezza

and I tell her to paint them in different families.

正在——上帝，现在我看到这些依然会哽咽——

These are pictures of Maezza when she was --

她在画她的迷你家庭成员。

God, it still chokes me up seeing these.

于是我抓起其中的一部分，把它们放在一条小船上。

So she's painting her little families.

So then I grab a bunch of them and I put them on a boat.

这就是那条小船。很明显它是个速成品。（笑声）

This was the boat, it was made quickly, obviously.

And so the basic gist of it is, I grabbed a bunch of families,

所以重点是，我抓起一把玩具“家人”，

而她不断地念叨："妈妈，您忘了拿粉红宝宝

and she's like, "Mommy, but you forgot the pink baby

and you forgot the blue daddy

你忘了拿蓝爸爸

你忘了拿这个那个”等等。

and you forgot all these other things."

她说，"他们也想要去。"我说：

And she says, "They want to go."

"不，亲爱的，他们不想去。这是中央航路。

And I said, "Honey, no, they don't want to go.

没人愿意走中央航路"。

This is the Middle Passage, Nobody wants to go on the Middle Passage."

然后她看了看我，只有游戏设计师的女儿

才会用这样的表情看着她妈妈

So she gave me a look that only a daughter of a game designer would give a mother,

当我们准备“横渡大洋”，按照这些规则进行时，

and as we're going across the ocean, following these rules,

她意识到这些要求太高了，她对我说

she realizes that she's rolling pretty high,

"我们做不到。"

and she says to me, "We're not going to make it."

她意识到了，我们没有足够的粮食，

And she realizes, we don't have enough food,

于是她问要怎么办，我回答道，

and so she asks what to do,

and I say -- remember, she's seven --

"嗯，我们可以要么"——请记住，她当时七岁——

"We can either put some people in the water

"我们可以要么把一些人放到水中

or we can hope that they don't get sick

要么我们只能希望他们一直不生病

直到我们到达目的地。”

and we make it to the other side."

她又用之前的表情看了我一眼。

Just the look on her face came over --

now mind you this is after a month of --

后来有一天——请注意，这是经过一个月的（历史熏陶）之后

那个月刚好是美国黑人历史月（二月）。

this is Black History Month, right?

After a month, she says to me, "Did this really happen?"

总之，一个月后，她对我说，

"那些事情真的发生了吗?"

我说，"是的。"之后她说，"那么，如果我当时

And I said, "Yes." And so she said --

出生了"——这是她的哥哥姐姐——"如果我

this is her brother and sister --

"If I came out of the woods, Avalon and Donovan might be gone."

出生了，Avalon 和 Donovan 可能就不在了？” “是的。”

"Yes."

“但我到美国后会再见到他们吧？”“不会。”

"But I'd get to see them in America."

"No."

"但万一我们能见面呢？我们不能呆在一起吗?" "不能。"

"But what if I saw them? Couldn't we stay together?"

"那么爸爸也可能不在了？" "是的。"

"So Daddy could be gone."

"Yes."

她被吓呆了，之后她开始哭泣，

She was fascinated by this, and she started to cry,

我也开始哭，她的父亲也开始哭，

I started to cry, her father started to cry, and now we're all crying.

然后我们一起哭。他没想到

下班回家会遇到中央航路这档子事

He didn't expect to come home from work to the Middle Passage, but there it goes.

但它就是发生了。（笑声）

总之，我们一起玩了这样一个游戏，最后她懂了其中的含义。

And so, we made this game, and she got it.

She got it because she spent time with these people.

她懂了，因为她与这些“人”共同经历了那个过程。

It wasn't abstract stuff in a brochure or in a movie.

这不像书本或电影里的教化那样是抽象的东西。

And so it was just an incredibly powerful experience.

这是一次令人惊叹、充满力量的体验。

This is the game, which I've ended up calling "The New World,"

这就是那个游戏，我后来给它起了个名字

叫做《新世界》，因为我喜欢这个叫法。

because I like the phrase.

我不认为“新世界”会带来什么世俗的兴奋感

I don't think the New World felt too new worldly exciting

to the people who were brought over on slave ships.

尤其对于那些曾经从奴隶船上下来的人们。

但当这一切发生时，我看到了整个世界。

But when this happened, I saw the whole planet; I was so excited.

我感觉太激动了。这就像是，我设计游戏

I'd been making games for 20-some years,

已经超过二十年，而我决定再做一些类似的游戏。

and then I decided to do it again.

My history is Irish.

我的故乡是爱尔兰。

So this is a game called "Síochán Leat." It's "peace be with you."

这个游戏叫做“Síochán Leat”。意思是《和平与你同在》。

仅仅这一个游戏就包含了我的整个家族史。

It's the entire history of my family in a single game.

I made another game called "Train."

我设计了另一款游戏叫做《列车》。

我制作了一个系列的六款游戏

I was making a series of six games that covered difficult topics,

都是关于沉重的主题，如果你要讨论一个

and if you're going to cover a difficult topic, this is one you need to cover,

沉重的主题，就需要这样的游戏来开展

我会让你自己通过游戏来发现关于这个主题的一切。

and I'll let you figure out what that's about on your own.

我还创作了一款游戏叫做《泪痕》

And I also made a game about the Trail of Tears.

This is a game with 50,000 individual pieces.

这个游戏有着5万个独立的零件。

I was crazy when I decided to start it, but I'm in the middle of it now.

我当时肯定是疯了才决定要设计它，

不过我现在已经进行了近一半。

It's the same thing.

这和之前的游戏是类似的。

I'm hoping that I'll teach culture through these games.

我希望通过这些游戏来传授文化。

而我现在正在着手设计的游戏是——

And the one I'm working on right now, which is --

因为我正在全心投入，所以想到它很容易使我情绪波动——

because I'm right in the middle of it,

and these for some reason choke me up like crazy --

这个游戏叫做《墨西哥厨房工人》。

is a game called "Mexican Kitchen Workers."

最初它差不多只是一个数学问题的游戏。

And originally, it was a math problem, more or less.

就像，关于非法移民的经济学问题。

Here's the economics of illegal immigration.

之后，随着我学到越来越多的墨西哥文化——

And the more I learned about Mexican culture --

我的搭档是墨西哥人——我越来越发现，

my partner is Mexican — the more I learned that,

你知道，对于我们所有人来说，食物是基本的需求，

you know, for all of us, food is a basic need,

当然对墨西哥人也是，但对他们来说食物的含义远不止如此。

and it is obviously with Mexicans, too, but it's much more than that.

食物是爱的表达。它是——

It's an expression of love. It's an expression of --

上帝，我没想到我会这么哽咽。

God, I'm totally choking up way more than I thought.

I'll look away from the picture.

我还是先不看这张照片好了。

It's an expression of beauty, it's how they say they love you.

它是美的表达。这是他们表达他们爱你的方式。

It's how they say they care,

这是他们表达在乎的方式。任何一个墨西哥人

and you can't hear somebody talk about their Mexican grandmother

谈起他的祖母

第一句中一定会有"食物"。

without saying "food" in the first sentence.

And so to me, this beautiful culture,

对我来说，这种美丽的文化，这种美丽的表达方式

this beautiful expression is something that I want to capture through games.

正是我想要通过游戏捕捉的东西。

And so games, for a change, it changes how we see topics,

因此游戏能够带来改变，它改变了我们讨论主题的方式，

它改变了我们对那些主题中人物的看法，

it changes our perceptions about those people in topics,

它也改变了我们自己。

and it changes ourselves.

We change as people through games,

我们通过玩游戏发生改变，

because we're involved, and we're playing,

因为我们既是玩游戏的人，又是游戏的一部分，

and we're learning as we do so.

与此同时，我们能学到东西。谢谢。（掌声）

Thank you.