Inside the black hole image that made history | Sheperd Doeleman

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Ivana Krivokuća

Chris Anderson: Shep, thank you so much for coming.

Kris Anderson: Šep, mnogo ti hvala što si došao.

I think your plane landed literally two hours ago in Vancouver.

Mislim da ti je avion sleteo bukvalno pre dva sata u Vankuver.

Such a treat to have you.

Velika je čast što si tu.

So, talk us through how do you get from Einstein's equation to a black hole?

Dakle, pokaži nam kako ste stigli od Ajnštajnove jednačine do crne rupe?

Sheperd Doeleman: Over 100 years ago,

Šeperd Dolman: Pre stotinu godina,

Einstein came up with this geometric theory of gravity

Ajnštajn je došao do geometrijske teorije gravitacije

which deforms space-time.

koja deformiše prostor-vreme.

So, matter deforms space-time,

Materija deformiše prostor-vreme,

and then space-time tells matter in turn how to move around it.

a potom prostor-vreme saopštava materiji kako da se kreće oko njega.

And you can get enough matter into a small enough region

Možete da imate dovoljno materije u dovoljno maloj oblasti

that it punctures space-time,

koja probija prostor-vreme,

and that even light can't escape,

da ni svetlost ne može da pobegne,

the force of gravity keeps even light inside.

sila gravitacije čak i svetlost zadržava unutra.

CA: And so, before that, the reason the Earth moves around the Sun

KA: Dakle, pre toga, razlog zašto se Zemlja okreće oko Sunca

is not because the Sun is pulling the Earth as we think,

nije zato što Sunce privlači Zemlju, kao što mislimo,

but it's literally changed the shape of space

već je to bukvalno izmenilo oblik prostora,

te mi prosto nekako padamo oko Sunca.

so that we just sort of fall around the Sun.

ŠD: Upravo, geometrija prostora-vremena

SD: Exactly, the geometry of space-time

saopštava Zemlji kako da se kreće oko Sunca.

tells the Earth how to move around the Sun.

You're almost seeing a black hole puncture through space-time,

Gotovo da vidite crnu rupu kako probija prostor-vreme,

and when it goes so deeply in,

a kada zadre toliko duboko unutra,

then there's a point at which light orbits the black hole.

imamo tačku u kojoj svetlost kruži oko crne rupe.

CA: And so that's, I guess, is what's happening here.

KA: A to je ono što se, pretpostavljam, dešava ovde.

This is not an image,

Ovo nije slika,

this is a computer simulation of what we always thought,

ovo je kompjuterska simulacija nečega što smo oduvek smatrali

like, the event horizon around the black hole.

horizontom događaja oko crne rupe.

SD: Until last week, we had no idea what a black hole really looked like.

ŠD: Do prošle nedelje, pojma nismo imali kako zaista izgleda crna rupa.

The best we could do were simulations like this in supercomputers,

Najviše što smo mogli su bile simulacije, nalik ovoj, na superkompjuterima,

but even here you see this ring of light,

ali čak i ovde vidite taj svetlosni prsten,

which is the orbit of photons.

a to je orbita od fotona.

That's where photons literally move around the black hole,

Tu se fotoni bukvalno kreću oko crne rupe,

and around that is this hot gas that's drawn to the black hole,

a oko toga je vreli gas koga privlači crna rupa,

and it's hot because of friction.

a vreo je zbog trenja.

All this gas is trying to get into a very small volume, so it heats up.

Ovaj gas pokušava da stigne u veoma malu zapreminu, te se zagreva.

KA: Pre nekoliko godina si se zaputio na ovu misiju

CA: A few years ago, you embarked on this mission

to try and actually image one of these things.

da pokušaš da zapravo uslikaš jednu od ovih stvari.

And I guess you took --

I pretpostavljam da si uzeo -

you focused on this galaxy way out there.

usredsredio si se na tu galaksiju skroz tamo.

Tell us about this galaxy.

Ispričaj nam o ovoj galaksiji.

SD: This is the galaxy --

ŠD: Ovo je galaksija -

we're going to zoom into the galaxy M87, it's 55 million light-years away.

zumiraćemo galaksiju M87, udaljenu 55 miliona svetlosnih godina.

CA: Fifty-five million.

KA: 55 miliona.

SD: Which is a long way.

ŠD: To je daleko.

And at its heart,

A u njenoj srži,

there's a six-and-a-half-billion- solar-mass black hole.

nalazi se crna rupa od šest i po milijardi Sunčeve mase.

That's hard for us to really fathom, right?

Teško nam je to da pojmimo, zar ne?

Six and a half billion suns compressed into a single point.

Šest i po milijardi sunaca sabijeno u jednu tačku.

And it's governing some of the energetics of the center of this galaxy.

I ona upravlja delom energetike središta ove galaksije.

CA: But even though that thing is so huge, because it's so far away,

KA: Iako je ta stvar tako ogromna, iz razloga što je tako daleko,

to actually dream of getting an image of it,

zapravo sanjati o njenoj fotografiji,

that's incredibly hard.

to je neverovatno teško.

The resolution would be incredible that you need.

Potrebna bi bila neverovatna rezolucija.

ŠD: Crne rupe su najmanji objekti u poznatom univerzumu.

SD: Black holes are the smallest objects in the known universe.

But they have these outsize effects on whole galaxies.

Međutim, one imaju ogroman uticaj na čitave galaksije.

But to see one,

No, da biste videli jednu,

you would need to build a telescope as large as the Earth,

morali biste da sagradite teleskop veličine Zemlje,

jer crna rupa u koju gledamo

because the black hole that we're looking at

otpušta obilne radio-talase.

gives off copious radio waves.

It's emitting all the time.

Sve vreme isijava.

CA: And that's exactly what you did.

KA: I upravo to ste i uradili.

SD: Exactly. What you're seeing here

ŠD: Upravo. Ovde vidite

is we used telescopes all around the world,

da smo koristili teleskope širom sveta,

we synchronized them perfectly with atomic clocks,

savršeno smo ih sinhronizovali uz pomoć atomskih satova

so they received the light waves from this black hole,

koji su primali svetlosne talase iz crne rupe,

and then we stitched all of that data together to make an image.

a potom smo spajali zajedno sve podatke kako bismo dobili sliku.

CA: To do that

KA: Da biste to postigli,

the weather had to be right

vreme je moralo da bude dobro

in all of those locations at the same time,

na svim tim lokacijama u isto vreme,

so you could actually get a clear view.

kako biste zapravo imali jasan pogled.

SD: We had to get lucky in a lot of different ways.

ŠD: Moralo je da nam se posreći na razne načine.

And sometimes, it's better to be lucky than good.

A ponekad je bolje imati sreće nego znanja.

In this case, we were both, I like to think.

U ovom slučaju, volim da verujem, da smo imali oboje.

But light had to come from the black hole.

Međutim, crna rupa je morala da odaje svetlost.

It had to come through intergalactic space,

Svetlost je morala da stiže kroz intergalaktički prostor,

through the Earth's atmosphere, where water vapor can absorb it,

kroz Zemljinu atmosferu, gde su vodena isparavanja mogla da je apsorbuju,

and everything worked out perfectly,

i sve se savršeno poklopilo,

the size of the Earth at that wavelength of light,

veličina Zemlje na toj talasnoj dužini svetlosti

one millimeter wavelength,

od jednog milimetra

was just right to resolve that black hole, 55 million light-years away.

bila je odgovarajuća da otkrije crnu rupu udaljenu 55 miliona svetlosnih godina.

The universe was telling us what to do.

Univerzum nam je saopštavao šta da radimo.

CA: So you started capturing huge amounts of data.

KA: Počeli ste da beležite ogromne količine podataka.

I think this is like half the data from just one telescope.

Mislim da je ovo tek polovina podataka od samo jednog teleskopa.

SD: Yeah, this is one of the members of our team, Lindy Blackburn,

ŠD: Da, ovo je jedan od članova naše ekipe, Lindi Blekburn,

i on sedi pored polovine podataka

and he's sitting with half the data

recorded at the Large Millimeter Telescope,

koje je snimio Veliki milimetarski teleskop

which is atop a 15,000-foot mountain in Mexico.

koji stoji na vrhu 4 850 km visoke planine u Meksiku.

And what he's holding there is about half a petabyte.

A on tu drži otprilike polovinu petabajta.

Which, to put it in terms that we might understand,

Što je, kad se izrazi terminom koji možemo da razumemo,

it's about 5,000 people's lifetime selfie budget.

oko 5 000 celoživotnih ljudskih selfi budžeta.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: It's a lot of data.

KA: To je mnogo podataka.

So this was all shipped, you couldn't send this over the internet.

Sve je transportovano, niste ovo mogli slati preko interneta.

All this data was shipped to one place

Svi ovi podaci su dopremljeni na jedno mesto

and the massive computer effort began to try and analyze it.

i uz ogromne napore kompjutera ste pokušali da ovo analizirate.

And you didn't really know

I niste zaista znali

what you were going to see coming out of this.

šta ćete da ugledate po okončanju svega.

ŠD: Tehnika koju smo koristili funkcioniše tako -

SD: The way this technique works that we used --

imagine taking an optical mirror and smashing it

zamislite da uzmete optičko ogledalo i razbijete ga

and putting all the shards in different places.

i sve krhotine stavite na različita mesta.

The way a normal mirror works

Normalno ogledalo funkcioniše

is the light rays bounce off the surface, which is perfect,

tako što se svetlosni zraci odbijaju o površinu, a to je savršeno,

and they focus in a certain point at the same time.

i istovremeno se fokusiraju u određenu tačku.

We take all these recordings,

Uzimamo sve ove snimke,

and with atomic clock precision

i preciznošću atomskog časovnika

we align them perfectly, later in a supercomputer.

kasnije ih savršeno poređamo unutar superkompjutera.

And we recreate kind of an Earth-sized lens.

I isceniramo neki vid objektiva veličine Zemlje.

And the only way to do that is to bring the data back by plane.

A jedini način da to obavimo je da avionom prebacimo podatke.

You can't beat the bandwidth of a 747 filled with hard discs.

Ne možete da pobedite opseg boinga 747 ispunjenog hard diskovima.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: And so, I guess a few weeks or a few months ago,

KA: Pretpostavljam, pre nekoliko sedmica ili meseci,

on a computer screen somewhere,

negde na nekom kompjuterskom ekranu

this started to come into view.

ovo je počelo da se kristališe.

This moment.

Ovaj trenutak.

SD: Well, it took a long time.

ŠD: Pa, potrajalo je poprilično.

CA: I mean, look at this.

KA: Mislim, pogledajte ovo.

That was it.

To je bilo to.

That was the first image.

To je bila prva slika.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

So tell us what we're really looking at there.

Reci nam u šta ovde gledamo.

SD: I still love it.

ŠD: I dalje sam oduševljen.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So what you're seeing is that last orbit of photons.

Ovde vidite poslednju orbitu fotona.

You're seeing Einstein's geometry laid bare.

Vidite ogoljenu Ajnštajnovu geometriju.

The puncture in space-time is so deep

Rascep u vremenu-prostoru je tako dubok

that light moves around in orbit,

da svetlost kruži u orbiti,

so that light behind the black hole, as I think we'll see soon,

a svetlost iza crne rupe, verujem da ćemo to uskoro da vidimo,

moves around and comes to us on these parallel lines

kruži i do nas stiže u ovim paralelnim linijama

at exactly that orbit.

baš u vidu te orbite.

It turns out, that orbit is the square root of 27

Ispostavlja se da je ta orbita veličine kvadratnog korena od 27

times just a handful of fundamental constants.

pomnoženog sa svega šačicom fundamentalnih konstanti.

It's extraordinary when you think about it.

Izvanredno je kad razmislite o tome.

CA: When ...

KA: Kad...

In my head, initially, when I thought of black holes,

Prvobitno u mojoj glavi, kad sam razmišljao o crnim rupama,

I'm thinking that is the event horizon,

razmišljam da je ovo horizont događaja,

there's lots of matter and light whirling around in that shape.

ima tu mnogo materije i svetlosti koje kruže u tom obliku.

But it's actually more complicated than that.

Međutim, zapravo je mnogo složenije od toga.

Well, talk us through this animation, because it's light being lensed around it.

Dakle, objasni nam ovu animaciju, jer je svetlost usmerena oko nje.

SD: You'll see here that some light from behind it gets lensed,

ŠD: Videćete ovde da se nešto svetlosti iz pozadine usmerava,

and some light does a loop-the-loop around the entire orbit of the black hole.

a nešto svetlosti pravi salta oko čitave orbite crne rupe.

But when you get enough light

No, kad imate dovoljno svetlosti

from all this hot gas swirling around the black hole,

iz sveg ovog vrelog gasa koji kruži oko crne rupe,

then you wind up seeing all of these light rays

onda vidite sve ove svetlosne zrake

come together on this screen,

kako se sastaju na ovom ekranu,

which is a stand-in for where you and I are.

a to je supstitucija moje i tvoje pozicije.

And you see the definition of this ring begin to come into shape.

I vidite konture ovog prstena kako poprimaju oblik.

And that's what Einstein predicted over 100 years ago.

A to je Ajnštajn predvideo pre više od 100 godina.

CA: Yeah, that is amazing.

KA: Da, to je zadivljujuće.

So tell us more about what we're actually looking at here.

Ispričaj nam više o tome šta ovde vidimo.

First of all, why is part of it brighter than the rest?

Pre svega, zašto su neki delovi svetliji od drugih?

SD: So what's happening is that the black hole is spinning.

ŠD: Dešava se to da se crna rupa okreće.

And you wind up with some of the gas moving towards us below

I, naposletku, nešto gasa ispod nje se kreće ka nama,

and receding from us on the top.

a gas s vrha se povlači.

And just as the train whistle has a higher pitch

I baš kao što vozna sirena zvuči prodornije

when it's coming towards you,

kada voz ide ka vama,

there's more energy from the gas coming towards us than going away from us.

gas emituje veću energiju kada se kreće ka nama nego kada se udaljava od nas.

You see the bottom part brighter

Donji deo izgleda svetlije

because the light is actually being boosted in our direction.

jer je svetlost zapravo jača u našem smeru.

CA: And how physically big is that?

KA: A koliko je to fizički veliko?

SD: Our entire solar system would fit well within that dark region.

ŠD: Naš celokupan Sunčev sistem bi stao u tu tamnu oblast.

And if I may,

I dodaću,

that dark region is the signature of the event horizon.

ta tamna oblast je otisak horizonta događaja.

The reason we don't see light from there,

Razlog zašto ne vidimo svetlost odatle

je što je svetlost koja bi stigla do nas sa tog mesta

is that the light that would come to us from that place

was swallowed by the event horizon.

apsorbovana horizontom događaja.

Dakle, to je to.

So that -- that's it.

CA: And so when we think of a black hole,

KA: Dakle, kada razmišljamo o crnoj rupi,

you think of these huge rays jetting out of it,

pomišljamo na te ogromne zrake kako sevaju iz nje,

which are pointed directly in our direction.

a koji su usmereni tačno u našem pravcu.

Why don't we see them?

Zašto ih ne vidimo?

SD: This is a very powerful black hole.

ŠD: Ovo je veoma moćna crna rupa.

Not by universal standards, it's still powerful,

Ne po standardima univerzuma, ali je i dalje moćna,

and from the north and south poles of this black hole

a sa severnih i južnih polova ove crne rupe

we think that jets are coming.

smatramo da stižu svi ti mlazevi.

Now, we're too close to really see all the jet structure,

Sad, suviše smo blizu da bismo zaista videli strukturu mlaza,

but it's the base of those jets that are illuminating the space-time.

ali osnova tih mlazeva osvetljava vreme-prostor.

And that's what's being bent around the black hole.

I to je ono što se povija oko crne rupe.

CA: And if you were in a spaceship whirling around that thing somehow,

KA: A kad bismo u svemirskom brodu nekako kružili oko te stvari,

how long would it take to actually go around it?

koliko bi nam trebalo da je obiđemo?

SD: First, I would give anything to be in that spaceship.

ŠD: Pre svega, sve bih dao da budem u tom svemirskom brodu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Sign me up.

Upišite me.

There’s something called the -- if I can get wonky for one moment --

Postoji nešto što se zove - ako mogu da budem malo neprecizan -

the innermost stable circular orbit,

najdublja stabilna kružna orbita,

that's the innermost orbit at which matter can move around a black hole

to je unutrašnja orbita u kojoj materija može da kruži oko crne rupe

before it spirals in.

pre nego što spiralno ponire.

And for this black hole, it's going to be between three days and about a month.

A u slučaju ove crne rupe, to će da traje između tri dana i oko jednog meseca.

CA: It's so powerful, it's weirdly slow at one level.

KA: Toliko je moćno, čudnovato sporo na neki način.

I mean, you wouldn't even notice

Mislim, ne biste čak ni primetili

falling into that event horizon if you were there.

upadanje u taj horizont događaja kad biste bili tamo.

SD: So you may have heard of "spaghettification,"

ŠD: Možda ste čuli za „špagetizaciju”,

where you fall into a black hole

gde upadnete u crnu rupu,

and the gravitational field on your feet is much stronger than on your head,

a gravitaciono polje na vašim stopalima je mnogo snažnije nego na glavi,

so you're ripped apart.

te ste raskomadani.

This black hole is so big

Ova crna rupa je toliko velika

that you're not going to become a spaghetti noodle.

da nećete postati špageta.

You're just going to drift right through that event horizon.

Prosto ćete da propadnete kroz taj horizont događaja.

CA: So, it's like a giant tornado.

KA: Dakle, to je kao džinovski tornado.

When Dorothy was whipped by a tornado, she ended up in Oz.

Kada je Doroti zgrabio tornado, završila je u Ozu.

Where do you end up if you fall into a black hole?

Gde bismo mi završili, ako bismo upali u crnu rupu?

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

SD: Vancouver.

ŠD: U Vankuveru.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: Oh, my God.

KA: O, moj bože.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

It's the red circle, that's terrifying.

Crveni krug, zastrašujuće je.

No, really.

Ne, zaista.

SD: Black holes really are the central mystery of our age,

ŠD: Crne rupe zaista jesu velike misterije našeg doba

because that's where the quantum world and the gravitational world come together.

jer se tu spajaju kvantni svet i gravitacioni svet.

Unutra je singularnost.

What's inside is a singularity.

And that's where all the forces become unified,

A tu sve sile postaju ujedinjene

because gravity finally is strong enough to compete with all the other forces.

jer je gravitacija konačno dovoljno snažna da se nadmeće sa drugim silama.

But it's hidden from us,

Međutim, to je skriveno od nas,

the universe has cloaked it in the ultimate invisibility cloak.

univerzum ga je ogrnuo vrhunskim ogrtačem nevidljivosti.

So we don't know what happens in there.

Stoga mi ne znamo šta se tamo dešava.

CA: So there's a smaller one of these in our own galaxy.

KA: Dakle, imamo jednu sličnu, manju u našoj galaksiji.

Can we go back to our own beautiful galaxy?

Možemo li da se vratimo na našu lepu galaksiju?

This is the Milky Way, this is home.

Ovo je Mlečni put, ovo je dom.

And somewhere in the middle of that there's another one,

A negde u središtu se krije još jedna,

koju takođe pokušavate da nađete.

which you're trying to find as well.

ŠD: Već znamo da je tu i već smo uzeli podatke o njoj.

SD: We already know it's there, and we've already taken data on it.

I trenutno radimo na tim podacima.

And we're working on those data right now.

Nadamo se da ćemo da imamo nešto u bliskoj budućnosti,

So we hope to have something in the near future, I can't say when.

ne mogu da kažem kad.

CA: It's way closer but also a lot smaller,

KA: Mnogo je bliže, ali je i mnogo manja,

maybe the similar kind of size to what we saw?

možda slične veličine kao ono što smo videli?

SD: Right. So it turns out that the black hole in M87,

ŠT: Upravo. Ispostavlja se da je crna rupa u M87,

that we saw before,

koju smo malopre videli,

is six and a half billion solar masses.

veličine šest i po milijardi Sunčeve mase.

But it's so far away that it appears a certain size.

Međutim, toliko je daleko da se čini određene veličine.

The black hole in the center of our galaxy is a thousand times less massive,

Crna rupa u središtu naše galaksije je hiljadu puta manje mase,

but also a thousand times closer.

ali je i hiljadu puta bliža.

So it looks the same angular size on the sky.

Pa, izgleda iste ugaone veličine na nebu.

CA: Finally, I guess, a nod to a remarkable group of people.

KA: Za kraj, pretpostavljam, naklon za izvanrednu grupu ljudi.

Who are these guys?

Ko su ti ljudi?

SD: So these are only some of the team.

ŠD: Ovo je samo deo ekipe.

We marveled at the resonance that this image has had.

Čudili smo se odjeku koji je ova slika imala.

If you told me that it would be above the fold in all of these newspapers,

Da ste mi rekli da će da bude na naslovnicama svih ovih novina,

I'm not sure I would have believed you, but it was.

nisam siguran da bih vam verovao, ali jeste.

Jer se radi o velikoj misteriji

Because this is a great mystery,

and it's inspiring for us, and I hope it's inspiring to everyone.

koja nas inspiriše, a nadam se da inspiriše svakoga.

But the more important thing is that this is just a small number of the team.

Međutim, važnija stvar je da je ovo tek mali deo ekipe.

Ima nas 200 u 60 instituta

We're 200 people strong with 60 institutes

and 20 countries and regions.

i 20 država i regiona.

If you want to build a global telescope you need a global team.

Ako želite da sagradite globalni teleskop, potrebna vam je globalna ekipa.

And this technique that we use of linking telescopes around the world

A tehnika koju koristimo da povežemo teleskope širom sveta

kind of effortlessly sidesteps some of the issues that divide us.

nekako bez napora prevazilazi neka od pitanja koja nas razdvajaju.

And as scientists, we naturally come together to do something like this.

A kao naučnici, prirodno se okupljamo zbog sličnih stvari.

CA: Wow, boy, that's inspiring for our whole team this week.

KA: Čoveče, ala je to inspirativno za čitavu našu ekipu ove nedelje.

Shep, thank you so much for what you did and for coming here.

Šep, mnogo ti hvala za sve i što si došao ovde.

SD: Thank you.

ŠD: Hvala tebi.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)