Heather Brooke: My battle to expose government corruption

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Mile Živković Lektor: Anja Saric

Once upon a time, the world was a big, dysfunctional family.

Nekada davno, svet je bio velika i nefunkcionalna porodica.

It was run by the great and powerful parents,

Njom su vladali veliki i moćni roditelji,

and the people were helpless

a narod su bila nezaštićena

and hopeless naughty children.

i beznadežna, bezobrazna deca.

If any of the more rowdier children questioned

Ako bi neka od agresivnije dece preispitivala

the authority of the parents, they were scolded.

autoritet roditelja, grdili bi ih.

If they went exploring into the parents' rooms,

Ako bi išli u sobu roditelja da bi istraživali

or even into the secret filing cabinets, they were punished,

ili čak otvarali tajne fioke, bili su kažnjavani

and told that for their own good

i govoreno im je da za njihovo dobro

they must never go in there again.

ne smeju nikada više tamo da ulaze.

Then one day, a man came to town

Jednog dana, neki čovek je došao u grad

with boxes and boxes of secret documents

sa mnogo kutija tajnih dokumenata,

stolen from the parents' rooms.

ukradenih iz roditeljskih soba.

"Look what they've been hiding from you," he said.

"Pogledajte šta su skrivali od vas", rekao je.

The children looked and were amazed.

Deca su pogledala i bila su zadivljena.

There were maps and minutes from meetings

Tu su se nalazile mape i beleške sa sastanaka

where the parents were slagging each other off.

gde su se roditelji međusobno svađali.

They behaved just like the children.

Ponašali su se baš kao ta deca.

And they made mistakes, too, just like the children.

Pravili su i greške, baš kao deca.

The only difference was, their mistakes

Jedina razlika je bila u tome što su se njihove greške

were in the secret filing cabinets.

nalazile u tajnim fiokama.

Well, there was a girl in the town, and she didn't think

Postojala je jedna devojka u gradu koja nije mislila

they should be in the secret filing cabinets,

da one treba da budu u tajnim fiokama

or if they were, there ought to be a law

ili ukoliko su i bile, da bi trebalo da postoji zakon

to allow the children access.

koji dozvoljava deci da im pristupe.

And so she set about to make it so.

Odlučila je da učini sve da do toga dođe.

Well, I'm the girl in that story, and the secret documents

Ja sam devojka iz priče, a tajna dokumenta

that I was interested in were located in this building,

za koja sam bila zainteresovana nalazila su se u ovoj zgradi,

the British Parliament, and the data that I wanted

britanskom Parlamentu, dok su se podaci koje sam želela

to get my hands on were the expense receipts

da dobijem, odnosili na potvrde o troškovima

of members of Parliament.

skupštinskih poslanika. Smatrala sam da je to

I thought this was a basic question to ask in a democracy. (Applause)

osnovno pitanje koje treba postaviti u demokratiji. (Aplauz)

It wasn't like I was asking for the code to a nuclear bunker,

Nisam ja tražila šifru za nuklearni bunker

or anything like that, but the amount of resistance I got

ili bilo šta slično, ali nivo otpora na koji sam naišla

from this Freedom of Information request,

na zahtev koji je zagarantovan slobodnim pristupom informacijama,

you would have thought I'd asked something like this.

bi vam delovao kao da sam zatražila nešto slično.

So I fought for about five years doing this,

Borila sam se oko pet godina radeći ovo,

and it was one of many hundreds of requests that I made,

i ovo je jedan od nekoliko stotina zahteva koje sam poslala,

not -- I didn't -- Hey, look, I didn't set out, honestly,

ne - nisam - vidite, iskreno, nisam rešila da napravim promene

to revolutionize the British Parliament.

u britanskom Parlamentu.

That was not my intention. I was just making these requests

To nije bila moja namera. Slala sam ove zahteve

as part of research for my first book.

kao deo istraživanja za moju prvu knjigu.

But it ended up in this very long, protracted legal battle

Ali se to završilo u veoma dugačkoj, razvučenoj pravnoj borbi

and there I was after five years fighting against Parliament

i bila sam tu posle pet godina borbe protiv Parlamenta,

in front of three of Britain's most eminent High Court judges

ispred troje najeminentnijih sudija britanskog Visokog suda,

waiting for their ruling about whether or not Parliament had to release this data.

čekajući presudu o tome da li Parlament treba ili ne treba da izda ove podatke.

And I've got to tell you, I wasn't that hopeful,

Moram da priznam da nisam bila optimistična

because I'd seen the establishment. I thought,

zato što sam videla establišment. Mislila sam

it always sticks together. I am out of luck.

da se oni uvek drže zajedno. Nemam šanse.

Well, guess what? I won. Hooray. (Applause)

Znate šta? Pobedila sam. Ura. (Aplauz)

Well, that's not exactly the story, because the problem was

Pa, priča nije baš takva, jer je problem bio

that Parliament delayed and delayed releasing that data,

u tome što je Parlament odlagao objavljivanje podataka,

and then they tried to retrospectively change the law

a onda su pokušali da retrospektivno promene zakon

so that it would no longer apply to them.

kako se ne bi odnosio na njih.

The transparency law they'd passed earlier that applied to everybody else,

Pokušali su da promene zakon o transparentnosti,

they tried to keep it so it didn't apply to them.

koji su ranije doneli, kako se ne bi odnosio na njih.

What they hadn't counted on was digitization,

Ali nisu računali na digitalizaciju,

because that meant that all those paper receipts

jer to je značilo da su svi papirni računi

had been scanned in electronically, and it was very easy

elektronski skenirani, što olakšava svakome

for somebody to just copy that entire database,

da kopira celokupnu bazu podataka,

put it on a disk, and then just saunter outside of Parliament,

snimi je na disk i sa njom odšeta iz Parlamenta,

which they did, and then they shopped that disk

što je i urađeno, a onda je disk prodat

to the highest bidder, which was the Daily Telegraph,

najboljem ponuđaču, što je bio "Daily Telegraph",

and then, you all remember, there was weeks and weeks

a potom, sećate se, usledile su nedelje i nedelje otkrića,

of revelations, everything from porn movies

od pornografskih filmova,

and bath plugs and new kitchens

preko kada, novih kuhinja

and mortgages that had never been paid off.

i hipoteka koje nikad nisu otplaćene.

The end result was six ministers resigned,

Krajnji rezultat je da je šest ministara dalo otkaze,

the first speaker of the house in 300 years was forced to resign,

predsedvajući skupštine, prvi put za 300 godina bio je primoran da da otkaz,

a new government was elected on a mandate of transparency,

izbrana je nova vlada na mandat transparentnosti.

120 MPs stepped down at that election,

Na tim izborima je 120 poslanika dalo otkaze,

and so far, four MPs and two lords

i do sada su četvoro poslanika i dva lorda

have done jail time for fraud.

odslužili kazne zatvora za proneveru.

So, thank you. (Applause)

Hvala. (Aplauz)

Well, I tell you that story because it wasn't unique to Britain.

Ova priča nije jedinstvena za Veliku Britaniju.

It was an example of a culture clash that's happening

To je bio primer kulturnog sukoba koji se dešava širom sveta

all over the world between bewigged and bestockinged

između golih i bosih zvaničnika

officials who think that they can rule over us

koji misle da mogu da vladaju nama

without very much prying from the public,

bez mnogo uplitanja javnosti,

and then suddenly confronted with a public

a onda su odjednom suočeni sa javnošću

who is no longer content with that arrangement,

koja više nije zadovoljna takvim stanjem stvari,

and not only not content with it, now, more often,

i ne samo to,

armed with official data itself.

sad je čak i naoružana zvaničnim podacima.

So we are moving to this democratization of information,

Dakle, krećemo se ka demokratizaciji informacija,

and I've been in this field for quite a while.

a ja sam u ovom polju prilično dugo.

Slightly embarrassing admission: Even when I was a kid,

Pomalo se stidim da priznam: i kao klinka sam imala

I used to have these little spy books, and I would, like,

špijunske knjige, i gledala bih šta svi

see what everybody was doing in my neighborhood and log it down.

u mom komšiluku rade i to bih beležila.

I think that was a pretty good indication

Mislim da je to bio prilično dobar pokazatelj

about my future career as an investigative journalist,

moje buduće karijere u istraživačkom novinarstvu,

and what I've seen from being in this access to information field for so long

a ono što sam videla, provevši mnogo u ovom polju pristupa informacijama

is that it used to be quite a niche interest,

je da je to bilo polje specifičnog interesovanja,

and it's gone mainstream. Everybody, increasingly, around the world,

a sada postaje mejnstrim. Sve više ljudi širom sveta

wants to know about what people in power are doing.

želi da zna šta ljudi na vlasti rade.

They want a say in decisions that are made in their name

Žele da učestvuju u odlukama koje se donose u njihovo ime

and with their money. It's this democratization of information

i sa njihovim novcem. Ova demokratizacija informacija

that I think is an information enlightenment,

je po mom mišljenju, informatičko prosvetljenje,

and it has many of the same principles of the first Enlightenment.

i deli mnogo istih principa kao prvo Prosvetiteljstvo.

It's about searching for the truth,

Glavna osobina je potraga za istinom,

not because somebody says it's true, "because I say so."

ne zato što neko kaže da je to istina, "jer ja tako kažem".

No, it's about trying to find the truth based on

Ne, traži se istina zasnovana na onome

what you can see and what can be tested.

što možete videti i što može da se proveri.

That, in the first Enlightenment, led to questions about

U prvom Prosvetiteljstvu, to je dovelo do pitanja

the right of kings, the divine right of kings to rule over people,

o uzvišenom pravu kraljeva da vladaju narodom,

or that women should be subordinate to men,

ili o tome da li bi žene trebalo da su podređene muškarcima,

or that the Church was the official word of God.

ili da je crkva zvanična reč božija.

Obviously the Church weren't very happy about this,

Naravno, crkva zbog toga nije bila srećna

and they tried to suppress it,

i pokušala je da to suzbije,

but what they hadn't counted on was technology,

ali nije računala na tehnologiju,

and then they had the printing press, which suddenly

a tada su imali štamparsku presu, koja je odjednom

enabled these ideas to spread cheaply, far and fast,

omogućila da se ove ideje prošire jeftino, daleko i brzo,

and people would come together in coffee houses,

ljudi bi se okupljali u kafanama,

discuss the ideas, plot revolution.

razgovarali o idejama, planirali revoluciju.

In our day, we have digitization. That strips all the physical mass out of information,

Danas, imamo digitalizaciju. To iz informacija ukida fizički aspekt,

so now it's almost zero cost to copy and share information.

pa je sada skoro besplatno kopirati i deliti informacije.

Our printing press is the Internet. Our coffee houses are social networks.

Naša stamparska presa je internet. Naše kafane su društvene mreže.

We're moving to what I would think of as a fully connected system,

Krećemo se ka onome što nazivam potpuno povezanim sistemom,

and we have global decisions to make in this system,

i u njemu moramo da donosimo globalne odluke,

decisions about climate, about finance systems,

odluke o klimi, finansijskim sistemima, resursima.

about resources. And think about it --

Razmislite -

if we want to make an important decision about buying a house,

Ako želimo da donesemo važnu odluku o kupovini kuće,

we don't just go off. I mean, I don't know about you,

ne odlazimo tek tako, ne znam za vas,

but I want to see a lot of houses before I put that much money into it.

ali ja želim da vidim mnogo kuća pre nego što dam mnogo novca.

And if we're thinking about a finance system,

Ako razmišljamo o finansijskom sistemu,

we need a lot of information to take in. It's just not possible

potrebno je da vidimo mnogo informacija. Nije moguće

for one person to take in the amount, the volume

da jedna osoba primi tu količinu informacija,

of information, and analyze it to make good decisions.

da je analizira i donese dobre odluke.

So that's why we're seeing increasingly this demand

Zato vidimo povećane zahteve

for access to information.

za pristup informacijama.

That's why we're starting to see more disclosure laws

Zato viđamo sve više zakona o objavljivanju

come out, so for example, on the environment,

tako da na primer za ekologiju

there's the Aarhus Convention,

postoji Arhuska konvencija,

which is a European directive that gives people

koja predstavlja evropske smernice

a very strong right to know, so if your water company

koje ljudima daju snažno pravo da znaju, na primer,

is dumping water into your river, sewage water

da li njihov vodovod ispušta kanalizacionu vodu

into your river, you have a right to know about it.

u reke, imaju pravo da znaju to.

In the finance industry, you now have more of a right

U finansijama sada imate više prava

to know about what's going on, so we have

da znate šta se dešava, tako da imamo razne

different anti-bribery laws, money regulations,

zakone protiv korupcije, regulacije novca,

increased corporate disclosure, so you can now track assets across borders.

povećanu korporativnu transparentnost, tako da se sredstva prate preko granica.

And it's getting harder to hide assets, tax avoidance,

Sve je teže sakriti imetak, izbegavati porez

pay inequality. So that's great. We're starting to find out

i plaćati nejednako radnike. To je sjajno. Počinjemo da otkrivamo

more and more about these systems.

sve više i više o ovim sistemima.

And they're all moving to this central system,

Oni se svi kreću ka ovom centralnom sistemu

this fully connected system,

koji je potpuno povezan.

all of them except one. Can you guess which one?

Svi osim jednog. Možete li da pogodite kojeg?

It's the system which underpins all these other systems.

To je sistem koji je osnova svih ovih ostalih sistema.

It's the system by which we organize and exercise power,

To je sistem po kom organizujemo i praktikujemo moć,

and there I'm talking about politics, because in politics,

a pričam o politici, jer se u politici vraćamo

we're back to this system, this top-down hierarchy.

na ovaj sistem, hijerarhiju s vrha na dole.

And how is it possible that the volume of information

Kako je moguće da može da se obradi količina podataka

can be processed that needs to in this system?

koja je potrebna u ovom sistemu?

Well, it just can't. That's it.

Jednostavno nije moguće. To je to.

And I think this is largely what's behind the crisis

Mislim da je ovo velikim delom iza krize legitimiteta

of legitimacy in our different governments right now.

u raznim vladama u ovom trenutku.

So I've told you a bit about what I did

Rekla sam vam nešto o tome šta sam radila

to try and drag Parliament, kicking and screaming,

kako bih uz šutiranje i vrisku dovukla parlament u 21. vek

into the 21st century, and I'm just going to give you

i samo ću vam pružiti

a couple of examples of what a few other people I know

nekoliko primera toga šta rade neki drugi ljudi

are doing.

koje poznajem.

So this is a guy called Seb Bacon. He's a computer

Ovo je Seb Bejkon. On je kompjuterski programer

programmer, and he built a site called Alaveteli,

i napravio je sajt pod nazivom Alaveteli,

and what it is, it's a Freedom of Information platform.

a to je platforma za Slobodu informacija.

It's open-source, with documentation, and it allows you

Otvorenog je izvornog koda, sa dokumentacijom, i dozvoljava vam

to make a Freedom of Information request,

da napravite zahtev za Slobodu informacija,

to ask your public body a question, so

da javnoj instituciji postavite pitanje,

it takes all the hassle out of it, and I can tell you

tako da to eliminiše sav napor, i mogu vam reći

that there is a lot of hassle making these requests,

da je prilično naporno ulagati ove zahteve,

so it takes all of that hassle out, and you just type in your question,

tako da toga ovde nema, samo ukucate svoje pitanje.

for example, how many police officers have a criminal record?

Na primer, koliko policajaca ima krivični dosije?

It zooms it off to the appropriate person, it tells you

To vas usmeri na odgovarajuću osobu i kaže vam

when the time limit is coming to an end, it keeps track of all

kada ističe vremenski rok, prati svu korespondenciju,

the correspondence, it posts it up there,

postavi je na sajt

and it becomes an archive of public knowledge.

i to postaje arhiva javnog znanja.

So that's open-source and it can be used in any country

To je zasnovano na otvorenom izvornom kodu i može se koristiti

where there is some kind of Freedom of Information law.

u svakoj zemlji gde postoji neki zakon o slobodi informacija.

So there's a list there of the different countries that have it,

Tu je spisak raznih zemalja koje imaju tako nešto,

and then there's a few more coming on board.

kao i još nekoliko koje se priključuju.

So if any of you out there like the sound of that

Ukoliko se nekom od vas sviđa kako ovo zvuči

and have a law like that in your country,

i imate takav zakon u svojoj zemlji,

I know that Seb would love to hear from you

znam da bi Seb voleo da se čuje sa vama

about collaborating and getting that into your country.

u vezi sa saradnjom i uvođenjem ovoga u vašoj zemlji.

This is Birgitta Jónsdóttir. She's an Icelandic MP.

Ovo je Birgita Jonsdotir. Ona je poslanica u parlamentu Islanda.

And quite an unusual MP. In Iceland, she was

I to prilično neobična. Ona je bila jedna od protestanata

one of the protesters who was outside of Parliament

koji su na Islandu bili ispred parlamenta

when the country's economy collapsed,

kada je ekonomija te zemlje doživela slom

and then she was elected on a reform mandate,

i onda je dobila mandat za reformu

and she's now spearheading this project.

i sada vodi ovaj projekat.

It's the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative,

To je Inicijativa za moderne medije Islanda

and they've just got funding to make it an international

i upravo su dobili sredstva da od toga naprave

modern media project, and this is taking all of the best laws

međunarodni medijski projekat koji bi uzeo sve najbolje zakone

around the world about freedom of expression,

o slobodi izražavanja širom sveta,

protection of whistleblowers, protection from libel,

o zaštiti uzbunjivača, zaštiti od klevete,

source protection, and trying to make Iceland a publishing haven.

zaštiti izvora, i ovaj projekat bi od Islanda napravio izdavački raj.

It's a place where your data can be free, so when we think

To je mesto gde vaši podaci mogu da budu slobodni,

about, increasingly, how governments want to access user data,

tako da kada sve više mislimo o tome kako vlade žele da pristupe podacima,

what they're trying to do in Iceland is make this safe haven

na Islandu pokušavaju da od ovoga naprave raj

where it can happen.

gde to može da se desi.

In my own field of investigative journalism, we're also

U mom polju istraživačkog novinarstva,

having to start thinking globally, so this is a site called

takođe moramo da mislimo globalno - ovo je sajt koji se zove

Investigative Dashboard. And if you're trying to track

Istraživačka tabla. Na primer, ako pokušavate

a dictator's assets, for example, Hosni Mubarak,

da pratite imovinu nekog diktatora, na primer Hosnija Mubaraka,

you know, he's just funneling out cash from his country

on samo izliva novac iz svoje zemlje

when he knows he's in trouble, and what you want to do

kada zna da je u nevolji, i želite da istražite ovo,

to investigate that is, you need to have access to

morate da imate pristup svim bazama podataka,

all of the world's, as many as you can,

svih mogućih kompanija na svetu,

companies' house registrations databases.

što je više moguće njih.

So this is a website that tries to agglomerate all of those

Ovo je sajt koji pokušava da skupi sve te baze podataka

databases into one place so you can start searching for,

na jednom mestu tako da možete da počnete pretragu

you know, his relatives, his friends, the head of his security services.

recimo za njegovim rođacima, prijateljima, šefovima bezbednosnih službi.

You can try and find out how he's moving out assets

Možete da pokušate da otkrijete

from that country.

kako izmešta imovinu van zemlje.

But again, when it comes to the decisions which are

Ali opet, kada su u pitanju odluke koje najviše utiču na nas,

impacting us the most, perhaps, the most important

možda najbitnije odluke

decisions that are being made about war and so forth,

koje se donose u vezi sa ratovima i sličnim stvarima,

again we can't just make a Freedom of Information request.

ne možemo da napravimo zahtev kroz Slobodu informacija.

It's really difficult. So we're still having to rely on

Zaista je teško. Tako još uvek moramo da se oslanjamo

illegitimate ways of getting information, through leaks.

na nelegitimne načine dobijanja informacija, kada one procure.

So when the Guardian did this investigation about

Kada je Gardijan sproveo istragu

the Afghan War, you know, they can't walk into

o ratu u Avganistanu, nisu mogli da ušetaju

the Department of Defense and ask for all the information.

u Ministarstvo odbrane i pitaju za informacije.

You know, they're just not going to get it.

Jednostavno ih neće dobiti.

So this came from leaks of tens of thousands of dispatches

Ovo je došlo iz procurelih informacija iz desetina hiljada obaveštenja

that were written by American soldiers

koja su napisali američki vojnici

about the Afghan War, and leaked,

o ratu u Avganistanu i koja su procurela,

and then they're able to do this investigation.

i mogu da vode ovu istragu.

Another rather large investigation is around world diplomacy.

Još jedna velika istraga bavi se svetskom diplomatijom.

Again, this is all based around leaks,

Opet, ovo je sve zasnovano na procurelim informacijama,

251,000 U.S. diplomatic cables, and I was involved

251 000 diplomatskih poruka SAD-a i ja sam bila uključena u ovu istragu

in this investigation because I got this leak

jer sam dobila ove informacije

through a leak from a disgruntled WikiLeaker

kroz druge procurele informacije od nezadovoljnog uzbunjivača

and ended up going to work at the Guardian.

i završila sam radeći u Gardijanu.

So I can tell you firsthand what it was like to have access

Iz prve ruke vam mogu reći kako je to kada imate pristup

to this leak. It was amazing. I mean, it was amazing.

ovim informacijama. Bilo je neverovatno. Zaista neverovatno.

It reminded me of that scene in "The Wizard of Oz."

Podsetilo me je na scenu iz "Čarobnjaka iz Oza".

Do you know the one I mean? Where the little dog Toto

Znate li na koju mislim? Na onu gde psić Toto

runs across to where the wizard [is], and he pulls back,

trči do čarobnjaka i povuče zavesu,

the dog's pulling back the curtain, and --

povuče je nazad i -

"Don't look behind the screen. Don't look at the man behind the screen."

"Ne gledaj iza paravana. Ne gledaj čoveka iza ekrana."

It was just like that, because what you started to see

Bilo je baš poput toga, jer počinjete da vidite

is that all of these grand statesmen, these very pompous

sve te velike državnike, pompozne političare,

politicians, they were just like us.

vidite da su isti kao mi.

They all bitched about each other. I mean, quite gossipy,

Svi su kukali jedni na druge. Bilo je dosta tračeva

u ovim porukama. U redu, ali mislila sam da je bilo veoma važno za nas

those cables. Okay, but I thought it was a very important

point for all of us to grasp, these are human beings

da shvatimo da su ovo ljudska bića poput nas.

just like us. They don't have special powers.

Nemaju posebne moći.

They're not magic. They are not our parents.

Nisu magični. Nisu naši roditelji.

Beyond that, what I found most fascinating

Iznad toga, najviše me je fascinirao

was the level of endemic corruption that I saw

nivo endemske korupcije koju sam videla

across all different countries, and particularly centered

širom raznih zemalja, koja je naročito bila fokusirana

around the heart of power, around public officials

oko centra moći, oko javnih zvaničnika

who were embezzling the public's money

koji su proneveravali novac javnosti

for their own personal enrichment, and allowed to do that

radi svoje lične koristi, i bilo im je dozvoljeno

because of official secrecy.

da rade to zbog zvanične tajnosti.

So I've mentioned WikiLeaks, because surely what could be

Pomenula sam Vikiliks, jer šta bi moglo biti otvorenije

more open than publishing all the material?

od objavljivanja svog materijala?

Because that is what Julian Assange did.

To je uradio Džulijan Asanž.

Nije bio zadovoljan načinom na koji su novine objavljivale

He wasn't content with the way the newspapers published it

to be safe and legal. He threw it all out there.

materijal, bezbedno i legalno. Samo je objavio sve to.

That did end up with vulnerable people in Afghanistan

To se završilo tako što su razotkrivene ranjive osobe u Avganistanu.

being exposed. It also meant that the Belarussian dictator

Takođe je podrazumevalo da je beloruski diktator dobio

was given a handy list of all the pro-democracy campaigners

zgodan spisak svih pro-demokratskih aktivista u toj zemlji

in that country who had spoken to the U.S. government.

koji su komunicirali sa vladom SAD-a.

Is that radical openness? I say it's not, because for me,

Da li je to radikalna otvorenost? Za mene nije, jer to za mene ne znači

what it means, it doesn't mean abdicating power,

odricanje od moći,

responsibility, accountability, it's actually being a partner

odgovornosti, to je zapravo partnerstvo s moći.

with power. It's about sharing responsibility,

Radi se o deljenju odgovornosti,

sharing accountability. Also, the fact that

polaganju računa. Takođe, tu je i činjenica da je pretio

he threatened to sue me because I got a leak of his leaks,

da me tuži jer sam dobila procurele informacije

I thought that showed a remarkable sort of inconsistency

koje su procurele od njega. Pomislila sam i da je to pokazalo

in ideology, to be honest, as well. (Laughs)

neverovatnu nedoslednost u ideologiji, iskreno. (Smeh)

The other thing is that power is incredibly seductive,

Druga stvar je to da je moć neverovatno zavodljiva,

and you must have two real qualities, I think,

i mislim da morate imati dve prave osobine,

when you come to the table, when you're dealing

kada sednete za sto i kada se bavite moći,

with power, talking about power,

pričate o njoj,

because of its seductive capacity.

zbog njenog zavodljivog svojstva.

You've got to have skepticism and humility.

Morate imati skepticizma i poniznosti.

Skepticism, because you must always be challenging.

Skepticizma, jer uvek morate izazivati nešto.

I want to see why do you -- you just say so? That's not good enough.

Želim da vidim zašto - jer ti tako kažeš? To nije dovoljno dobro.

I want to see the evidence behind why that's so.

Želim da vidim dokaze zašto je to tako.

And humility because we are all human. We all make mistakes.

Poniznost, zato što smo svi ljudi. Svi pravimo greške.

And if you don't have skepticism and humility,

Ako nemate skepticizma i poniznosti,

then it's a really short journey to go from reformer

onda je veoma kratak put od reformatora

to autocrat, and I think you only have to read "Animal Farm"

do autokrate, i mislim da samo treba da pročitate "Životinjsku farmu"

to get that message about how power corrupts people.

da vidite kako moć kvari ljude.

So what is the solution? It is, I believe, to embody

Šta je rešenje? Verujem da je u tome

within the rule of law rights to information.

da se unutar vladavine zakona otelotvore prava na informacije.

At the moment our rights are incredibly weak.

Naša prava su trenutno neverovatno mala.

In a lot of countries, we have Official Secrets Acts,

U mnogo zemalja postoji Zakon zvaničnih tajni,

uključujući i Veliku Britaniju. Imamo Zakon o zvaničnim tajnama

including in Britain here. We have an Official Secrets Act

with no public interest test. So that means it's a crime,

bez probe javnog interesa. To znači da je zločin,

people are punished, quite severely in a lot of cases,

ljudi se kažnjavaju, prilično strogo u dosta slučajeva,

for publishing or giving away official information.

ako objave ili daju zvanične informacije.

Now wouldn't it be amazing, and really, this is what I want

Zar ne bi bilo sjajno, i zaista želim da svi razmislite o ovome,

all of you to think about, if we had an Official Disclosure Act

kada bismo imali zvanični Zakon o objavljivanju

where officials were punished if they were found

gde bi zvaničnici bili kažnjeni ako bi se otkrilo

to have suppressed or hidden information

da su zataškavali ili krili informacije

that was in the public interest?

od javnog interesa?

So that -- yes. Yes! My power pose. (Applause) (Laughs)

Tako da - da. Da! Moj stav moći. (Aplauz) (Smeh)

I would like us to work towards that.

Želela bih da radimo na tome.

So it's not all bad news. I mean, there definitely is

Nisu sve vesti loše. Definitivno postoji napredak,

progress on the line, but I think what we find is that

ali mislim da otkrivamo da

the closer that we get right into the heart of power,

što bliže priđemo centru moći,

the more opaque, closed it becomes.

kao da postane sve neprozirniji i zatvoreniji.

So it was only just the other week that I heard London's

Pre nekoliko nedelja sam čula da je poverenik Metropolitanske policije

Metropolitan Police Commissioner talking about why

u Londonu pričao o tome

the police need access to all of our communications,

zašto je policiji potreban pristup svoj našoj komunikaciji,

spying on us without any judicial oversight,

da nas špijuniraju bez pravnog nadgledanja,

and he said it was a matter of life and death.

i rekao je da je to pitanje života i smrti.

He actually said that, it was a matter of life and death.

Zapravo je to rekao, da je pitanje života i smrti.

There was no evidence. He presented no evidence of that.

Nije bilo dokaza. Nije pružio nikakav dokaz za to.

It was just, "Because I say so.

Bilo je samo: "Jer ja tako kažem.

You have to trust me. Take it on faith."

Morate mi verovati. Verujte na reč."

Well, I'm sorry, people, but we are back

Ljudi, žao mi je, ali vraćamo se

to the pre-Enlightenment Church,

na crkvu pre Prosvetljenja,

and we need to fight against that.

i moramo se boriti protiv toga.

So he was talking about the law in Britain which is

Pričao je o zakonu u Velikoj Britaniji,

the Communications Data Bill, an absolutely outrageous piece of legislation.

to je predlog Zakona o komunikaciji, apsolutno nečuvenog dokumenta.

In America, you have the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act.

U Americi, imate Zakon o deljenju i zaštiti sajber informacija.

You've got drones now being considered for domestic surveillance.

Bespilotne letelice se sada smatraju domaćim nadgledanjem.

You have the National Security Agency building

Nacionalna agencija za bezbednost gradi

the world's giantest spy center. It's just this colossal --

najveći špijunski centar na svetu. Kolosalne je veličine -

it's five times bigger than the U.S. Capitol,

pet puta veći od Kongresa u SAD,

in which they're going to intercept and analyze

i tu pokušavaju da presretnu i analiziraju

communications, traffic and personal data

komunikaciju, saobraćaj i lične podatke

to try and figure out who's the troublemaker in society.

kako bi otkrili ko pravi probleme u našem društvu.

Well, to go back to our original story, the parents

Da se vratimo na prvobitnu priču,

have panicked. They've locked all the doors.

roditelji su se uspaničili. Zaključali su sva vrata.

They've kitted out the house with CCTV cameras.

Opremili su kuću kamerama za nadzor.

They're watching all of us. They've dug a basement,

Posmatraju sve nas. Iskopali su podrum

and they've built a spy center to try and run algorithms

i napravili špijunski centar gde pokreću algoritme

and figure out which ones of us are troublesome,

kako bi otkrili ko od nas pravi probleme,

and if any of us complain about that, we're arrested for terrorism.

i ako bilo ko pokuša da se požali na to, uhapsiće nas zbog terorizma.

Well, is that a fairy tale or a living nightmare?

Da li je to bajka ili živi košmar?

Some fairy tales have happy endings. Some don't.

Neke bajke imaju srećne završetke. Neke nemaju.

I think we've all read the Grimms' fairy tales, which are,

Mislim da smo svi pročitali bajke braće Grim,

indeed, very grim.

koje su prilično sumorne.

But the world isn't a fairy tale, and it could be more brutal

Ali svet nije bajka, i mogao bi da bude brutalniji

than we want to acknowledge.

nego što želimo da priznamo.

Equally, it could be better than we've been led to believe,

Isto tako bi mogao biti bolji nego što su nas naterali da mislimo,

but either way, we have to start seeing it exactly as it is,

ali u svakom slučaju moramo da počnemo da ga gledamo kakav jeste,

with all of its problems, because it's only by seeing it

sa svim njegovim problemima, jer jedino kroz to posmatranje

with all of its problems that we'll be able to fix them

sa svim problemima možemo da ih popravimo

and live in a world in which we can all be

i budemo u svetu gde svi možemo živeti

happily ever after. (Laughs) Thank you very much.

srećno do kraja života. (Smeh) Hvala vam mnogo.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thank you. (Applause)

Hvala vam. (Aplauz)