Sherwin Nuland: How electroshock therapy changed me

Prevodilac: Milica Petrovic Lektor: Tatjana Jevdjic

I'd like to do pretty much what I did the first time,

Želeo bih da uradim isto što i prvi put,

which is to choose a lighthearted theme.

a to je da izaberem neku vedru temu.

Last time, I talked about death and dying.

Prošli put sam govorio o smrti i umiranju.

(Laughter)

This time, I'm going to talk about mental illness.

Ovaj put ću govoriti o mentalnim bolestima.

(Laughter)

But it has to be technological,

Ali pošto mora biti u skladu sa tehnologijom,

so I'll talk about electroshock therapy.

govoriću o terapiji elektrošokovima. (Smeh)

(Laughter)

You know, ever since man had any notion

Znate, otkad je čovek primetio

that some of his other people, his colleagues,

da neko od njegovih bližnjih, njegovih kolega,

could be different, could be strange, could be severely depressed

može biti drugačiji, može biti čudan, može biti ozbiljno depresivan

or what we now recognize as schizophrenia,

ili ono što danas prepoznajemo kao šizofreniju,

he was certain that this kind of illness had to come from evil spirits

bio je siguran da je ova vrsta bolesti

morala da dolazi od zlih duhova koji zaposedaju telo.

getting into the body.

So the way of treating these diseases in early times

Pa, način da se leče ove bolesti

u ranijim vemenima je bio, na jedan ili drugi način,

was to, in some way or other, exorcise those evil spirits.

isterivanje ovih zlih duhova, a ovo se i dalje dešava, kao što znate.

And this is still going on, as you know.

But it wasn't enough to use the priests.

Ali nije dovoljno samo prisustvo sveštenika.

When medicine became somewhat scientific, in about 450 BC,

Kada je medicina postala koliko-toliko naučna, otprilike oko 450. godine p.n.e.,

with Hippocrates and those boys,

sa Hipokratom i tim momcima,

they tried to look for herbs, plants

oni su pokušavali da nađu lekovito bilje, biljke

that would literally shake the bad spirits out.

koje bi bukvalno otresle loše duhove van.

So they found certain plants that could cause convulsions.

Tako da su našli određene biljke koje izazivaju konvulzije.

And the herbals,

A knjige lekovitog bilja, botaničke knjige sve do kasnog srednjeg veka,

the botanical books of up to the late Middle Ages, the Renaissance,

renesanse su pune recepata

are filled with prescriptions for causing convulsions

za izazivanje konvulzija koji bi istresli zle duhove.

to shake the evil spirits out.

Finally, in about the 16th century,

Konačno, otprilike u 16. veku,

a physician whose name was Theophrastus Bombastus Aureolus von Hohenheim --

lekar čije je ime Teofrastus Bombastus Aureolus fon Hoenajm,

called Paracelsus, a name probably familiar to some people here --

zvani Paracelzus, ovo ime je verovatno poznato nekima od vas -

(Laughter)

(Smeh) - dobri, stari Paracelzus

good old Paracelsus --

found that he could predict the degree of convulsion

je otkrio da može predvideti stepen konvulzija

by using a measured amount of camphor to produce the convulsion.

koristeći izmerenu količinu kamfora da bi proizveo konvulzije.

Can you imagine going to your closet, pulling out a mothball

Možete li da zamislite da odete do vašeg ormara, uzmete kuglicu protiv moljaca

and chewing on it if you're feeling depressed?

i žvaćete je ukoliko ste depresivni?

It's better than Prozac, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Bolje je od prozaka, ali ga ja ne bih preporučio.

(Laughter)

So, what we see in the 17th, 18th century

Ono što vidimo je da se u 17., 18. veku

is the continued search for medications other than camphor that'll do the trick.

konstantno traže lekovi osim kamfora koji će da urade šta treba.

Well, along comes Benjamin Franklin,

Zatim dolazi Bendžamin Franklin

and he comes close to convulsing himself

i biva blizu da i sebi izazove konvulzije

with a bolt of electricity off the end of his kite.

munjom elektriciteta sa kraja njegovog zmaja.

And so people begin thinking in terms of electricity to produce convulsions.

Tako su ljudi počeli da razmišljaju o električnoj struji zarad proizvodnje konvulzija.

And then we fast-forward to about 1932,

Zatim idemo u 1932. godinu,

when three Italian psychiatrists who were largely treating depression

kada su 3 italijanska psihijatra, koji su mahom lečili depresiju,

began to notice among their patients, who were also epileptics,

primetili među svojim pacijentima, koji su takođe epileptičari,

da ako imaju seriju epileptičnih napada,

that if they had a series of epileptic fits, a lot of them in a row --

dosta njih zaredom - depresija će vrlo često prestati.

the depression would very frequently lift.

Not only would it lift, but it might never return.

Ne samo da će prestati, već se možda nikad neće ni vratiti.

So they got very interested in producing convulsions,

Zato su postali veoma zainteresovani za stvaranje konvulzija,

measured types of convulsions.

izmerene tipove konvulzija.

And they thought,

Pomislili su: "Pa, imamo struju, samo ćemo priključiti nekoga za zid.

"Well, we've got electricity, we'll plug somebody into the wall.

To uvek diže kosu na glavi i ljudi se mnogo tresu."

That always makes hair stand up and people shake a lot."

So they tried it on a few pigs, and none of the pigs were killed.

To su pokušali na nekoliko svinja i nijedna svinja nije ubijena.

So they went to the police and they said,

Tako da su otišli do policije i rekli:

"We know that at the Rome railroad station,

"Znamo da su na železničkoj stanici u Rimu

there are all these lost souls wandering around,

sve te izgubljene duše koje tumaraju okolo,

muttering gibberish.

mrmljajući besmislice. Možete li da nam dovedete jednog?"

Can you bring one of them to us?"

Someone who is, as the Italians say, "gagootz."

Nekoga ko je, što bi Italijani rekli "tikva".

So they found this "gagootz" guy,

Te su našli tog "tikva" lika,

a 39-year-old man who was really hopelessly schizophrenic,

39-godišnjeg čoveka koji je beznadežni šizofreničar,

who was known, had been known for months,

koji je mesecima bio poznat po tome što je

to be literally defecating on himself,

bukvalno vršio nuždu po sebi,

talking nothing that made any sense,

nije govorio ništa što ima smisla

and they brought him into the hospital.

i doveli su ga u bolnicu.

So these three psychiatrists,

Ova 3 psihijatra su ga, nakon 2-3 nedelje posmatranja,

after about two or three weeks of observation,

laid him down on a table,

postavili na sto,

connected his temples to a very small source of current.

povezali njegove slepoočnice na mali izvor struje.

They thought, "Well, we'll try 55 volts, two-tenths of a second.

Mislili su: "Pokušaćemo sa 55 volti, 2 desetine sekunde.

That's not going to do anything terrible to him."

To mu neće učiniti ništa strašno."

So they did that.

Pa su to i učinili.

Well, I have the following from a firsthand observer,

Sledeće sam čuo od neposrednog posmatrača

who told me this about 35 years ago,

koji mi je ovo rekao pre 35 godina,

when I was thinking about these things for some research project of mine.

kada sam razmišljao o ovim stvarima

za neki moj projekat.

He said, "This fellow" -- remember, he wasn't even put to sleep --

Rekao je: "Ovaj momak" - zapamtite, on nije bio uopšte uspavan -

"after this major grand mal convulsion,

"nakon ove glavne, zle konvulzije,

sat right up,

je ustao, pogledao ovu trojicu i rekao:

looked at these three fellas and said,

"Šta kog đavola pokušavate da uradite?""

'What the fuck are you assholes trying to do?'"

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

If I could only say that in Italian.

Kad bih samo mogao to da kažem na italijanskom.

(Laughter)

Well, they were happy as could be,

Oni su bili presrećni jer on

because he hadn't said a rational word in the weeks of observation.

nije rekao racionalnu reč svih nedelja posmatranja.

(Laughter)

Te su ga priključili ponovo,

So they plugged him in again,

and this time, they used 110 volts for half a second.

ali su ovaj put koristili 110 volti pola sekunde.

I na njihovo zaprepašćenje, kada je bilo gotovo,

And to their amazement, after it was over,

he began speaking like he was perfectly well.

on je počeo da govori kao da je savršeno zdrav.

He relapsed a little bit, they gave him a series of treatments,

Malo je popustio, pa su mu dali seriju tretmana

and he was essentially cured.

i on je bio u suštini izlečen.

But of course, having schizophrenia,

Ali naravno, pošto je imao šizofreniju,

within a few months, it returned.

ona se nakon par meseci vratila.

But they wrote a paper about this,

Ali su napisali rad o ovome

and everybody in the western world began using electricity

i svako u zapadnom svetu je počeo da koristi električnu struju

to convulse people who were either schizophrenic

za izazivanje konvulzija kod ljudi koji su ili šizofeničari ili ozbiljno depresivni.

or severely depressed.

It didn't work very well on the schizophrenics,

Ovo nije bilo uspešno kod šizofreničara,

but it was pretty clear in the '30s and by the middle of the '40s

ali je bilo jasno u '30-im i do sredine '40-ih

that electroconvulsive therapy was very, very effective

da je terapija elektrokonvulzijama vrlo efikasna

in the treatment of depression.

u lečenju depresije.

And of course, in those days, there were no antidepressant drugs,

I naravno, u tom vremenu nije bilo antidepresiva,

and it became very, very popular.

pa je ovo postalo veoma popularno.

They would anesthetize people, convulse them ...

Oni bi davali ljudima anesteziju,

izazivali konvulzije, ali prava poteškoća je bila

But the real difficulty was that there was no way to paralyze muscles.

to što nije postojao način da se paralizuju mišići.

So people would have a real grand mal seizure.

Zato su ljudi imali stvarno veliki napad.

Bones were broken; especially in old, fragile people, you couldn't use it.

Kosti su lomljene. Posebno kod starih, krhkih ljudi

niste mogli ovo da koristite.

And then in the late 1950s, the so-called "muscle relaxants"

Zatim u kasnim 1950-im, takozvane lekove za opuštanje mišića

were developed by pharmacologists,

su napravili farmaceuti

and it got so that you could induce a complete convulsion,

i došlo je do toga da je mogla da se izazove potpuna konvulzija,

an electroencephalographic convulsion -- you could see it on the brain waves --

elektroencefalografska konvulzija - što možete videti na osnovu moždanih talasa -

without causing any convulsion in the body

bez izazivanja konvulzija u telu izuzev malog peckanja u prstima.

except a little bit of twitching of the toes.

So again, it was very, very popular and very, very useful.

Opet, to je bilo veoma popularno i veoma korisno.

Well, you know, in the middle '60s, the first antidepressants came out.

Pa, znate, sredinom1960-ih,

proizvedeni su prvi antidepresivi. Tofranil je bio prvi.

Tofranil was the first.

In the late '70s, early '80s, there were others,

Kasnih 1970-ih, ranih 1980-ih, postojali su i drugi

and they were very effective.

i bili su vrlo efikasni.

And patients' rights groups seemed to get very upset

A grupe za zaštitu prava pacijenata su se veoma uznemirile

about the kinds of things that they would witness,

zbog stvari kojima su prisustvovale.

so the whole idea of electroconvulsive, electroshock therapy disappeared,

Tako je cela ideja elektrokonvulzivne, elektrošok terapije nestala,

but has had a renaissance in the last 10 years.

ali je doživela preporod u poslednjih 10 godina.

And the reason that it has had a renaissance

A razlog za ovaj preporod

is that probably about 10 percent of the people, severe depressives,

je to što oko 10 posto ljudi, ozbiljno depresivnih,

do not respond, regardless of what is done for them.

ne reaguju, bez obzira kako ih tretiraju.

Now why am I telling you this story at this meeting?

Zašto vam govorim ovo na ovom sastanku?

I'm telling you this story because, actually,

Govorim vam ovu priču jer me je Ričard pozvao

ever since Richard called me and asked me to talk about --

i pitao da govorim o

as he asked all of his speakers --

- kao što je pitao sve svoje govornike -

to talk about something that would be new to this audience

da govorim o nečemu što bi bilo novo za ovu publiku,

that we had never talked about, never written about.

o čemu dosad nismo pričali, nismo pisali,

I've been planning this moment.

isplanirao sam ovaj trenutak.

This reason really is that I am a man who, almost 30 years ago,

Razlog je zapravo taj što sam ja čovek kom je, pre skoro 30 godina,

spašen život sa 2 duga tretmana terapije elektrošokom.

had his life saved by two long courses of electroshock therapy.

And let me tell you this story.

Dozvolite mi da vam ispričam tu priču.

I was, in the 1960s, in a marriage.

Bio sam 1960-ih u braku. Nazvati ga lošim

To use the word "bad" would be perhaps the understatement of the year.

bi verovatno bilo premalo rečeno.

It was dreadful.

Bio je užasan.

There are, I'm sure, enough divorced people in this room

Ima, siguran sam, dovoljno razvedenih ljudi u ovoj prostoriji

to know about the hostility, the anger, who knows what.

koji su upoznati sa ovim neprijateljstvima, besom, ko zna sa čim još.

Being someone who had had a very difficult childhood,

Pošto sam neko ko je imao teško detinjstvo,

a very difficult adolescence --

tešku adolescenciju -

it had to do with not quite poverty, but close.

što je imalo veze sa ne baš siromaštvom, ali blizu toga.

It had to do with being brought up in a family where no one spoke English,

Imalo je veze sa odrastanjem u porodici u kojoj niko nije govorio engleski,

no one could read or write English.

niko nije ni čitao ni pisao na engleskom.

It had to do with death and disease and lots of other things.

Imalo je veze sa smrću i bolešću i mnogim drugim stvarima.

I was a little prone to depression.

Bio sam malo sklon depresiji.

So, as things got worse, as we really began to hate each other,

Kako su se stvari pogoršale i kako smo stvarno počeli da mrzimo jedno drugo,

I became progressively depressed over a period of a couple of years

postao sam progresivno depresivan u roku od par godina,

trying to save this marriage,

pokušavajući da spasem brak,

which was inevitably not to be saved.

koji se neizbežno nije mogao spasiti.

Finally, I would schedule -- all my major surgical cases,

Konačno, zakazivao bih - sve svoje veće hirurške slučajeve,

I was scheduling them for 12, one o'clock in the afternoon,

zakazivao bih ih za 12, 1 sat popodne

because I couldn't get out of bed before about 11 o'clock.

jer nisam mogao da ustanem pre 11 sati.

Anybody who's been depressed here knows what that's like.

Svako ko je bio depresivan zna kako to izgleda.

Nisam mogao čak ni prekrivač da skinem sa sebe.

I couldn't even pull the covers off myself.

Well, you're in a university medical center,

Pa, vi ste u univerzitetskom medicinskom centru,

where everybody knows everybody.

gde svako poznaje svakoga i sve je savršeno jasno mojim kolegama,

And it's perfectly clear to my colleagues, so my referrals began to decrease.

pa su moje preporuke počele da opadaju.

As my referrals began to decrease,

Kako su se moje preporuke smanjivale,

I clearly became increasingly depressed,

postao sam još depresivniji

until I thought, "My God, I can't work anymore."

dok nisam pomislio, moj bože, ja više ne mogu da radim.

And, in fact, it didn't make any difference,

I zapravo, nije bilo nikakve razlike

because I didn't have any patients anymore.

jer i onako nisam više imao pacijenata.

So, with the advice of my physician,

Kako me je savetovao moj lekar,

I had myself admitted to the acute care psychiatric unit

prijavio sam se za akutnu negu u psihijatrijskoj jedinici naše univerzitetske bolnice.

of our university hospital.

And my colleagues, who had known me since medical school,

Moje kolege, koje su me znale još od medicinske škole

in that place, said, "Don't worry, Shep.

u tom mestu, su mi rekle: "Ne brini druže. Za 6 nedelja

Six weeks, you're back in the operating room.

bićeš ponovo u operacionoj sali. Sve će biti dobro."

Everything's going to be great."

Well, you know what bovine stercus is?

Da li znate sta je goveđi izmet?

That proved to be a lot of bovine stercus.

E pa ispostavilo se da je to gomila goveđeg izmeta.

(Laughter)

I know some people who got tenure in that place with lies like that.

Znam neke ljude koji su osvojili mandat na tom mestu sa lažima poput ovih.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

(Laughter and applause)

So I was one of their failures.

Tako da sam bio jedan od njihovih promašaja.

But it wasn't that simple,

Ali nije bilo tako jednostavno. Jer kada

because by the time I got out of that unit,

sam izašao iz te jedinice nisam uopšte mogao da funkcionišem.

I was not functional at all.

I could hardly see five feet in front of myself.

Jedva sam video na metar i po ispred sebe.

I shuffled when I walked. I was bowed over.

Teturao sam se dok hodam. Bio sam nakrivljen.

I rarely bathed.

Retko sam se kupao. Nekad se nisam ni brijao. Bilo je užasno.

I sometimes didn't shave.

It was dreadful.

And it was clear -- not to me,

I postalo je jasno - ne meni,

because nothing was clear to me at that time anymore --

jer meni više ništa nije bilo jasno u to vreme -

that I would need long-term hospitalization

da će mi trebati dugotrajna hospitalizacija

in that awful place called a "mental hospital."

u tom groznom mestu zvanom mentalna bolnica.

So I was admitted, in the spring of 1973,

Bio sam primljen 1973., u proleće 1973.

to the Institute of Living, which used to be called the Hartford Retreat.

u Living institut, koji se ranije zvao Hartford Retreat.

It was founded in the 18th century,

Osnovan je u 18. veku,

the largest psychiatric hospital in the state of Connecticut,

najveća psihijatrijska bolnica u državi

other than the huge public hospitals that existed at that time.

Konektikat, za razliku od ogromnih javnih bolnica

koje su postojale u to vreme.

And they tried everything they had.

Pokušali su sa svim što su imali.

They tried the usual psychotherapy.

Pokušali su sa psihoterapijom.

They tried every medication available in those days.

Pokušali su sa svim lekovima dostupnim u to vreme.

And they did have Tofranil and other things -- Mellaril, who knows what.

A imali su tofranil i druge stvari - melaril, ko zna šta sve.

Nothing happened except that I got jaundiced from one of these things.

Ništa se nije desilo osim što sam dobio žuticu od jedne od ovih stvari.

And finally,

I konačno, pošto sam bio opšte poznat u Konektikatu,

because I was well-known in Connecticut,

they decided they better have a meeting of the senior staff.

odlučili su da sazovu sastanak uprave.

All the senior staff got together, and I later found out what happened.

Uprava se sastala i kasnije sam saznao šta se dogodilo.

They put all their heads together,

Svi su razmislili i rešili

and they decided that there was nothing that could be done

da ne postoji ništa što može da se uradi

for this surgeon who had essentially separated himself from the world,

za ovog hirurga koji se suštinski odvojio od sveta,

who by that time had become so overwhelmed,

koji je do tada postao toliko preplavljen,

not just with depression and feelings of worthlessness and inadequacy,

ne samo depresijom i osećanjima

beskorisnosti i neadekvatnosti,

but with obsessional thinking,

već i opsesivnim razmišljanjima,

obsessional thinking about coincidences.

opsesivnim mislima o slučajnostima.

And there were particular numbers that every time I saw them,

Postojali su određeni brojevi koji su me svaki put kada bih ih video,

just got me dreadfully upset, all kinds of ritualistic observances ...

užasno uznemiravali - sve vrste ritualnih posmatranja,

just awful, awful stuff.

samo užasne, užasne stvari.

Remember when you were a kid, and you had to step on every line?

Sećate se kada ste bili deca i morali ste da nagazite na svaku liniju?

Well, I was a grown man who had all of these rituals,

Pa, ja sam bio odrastao čovek koji je imao sve ove rituale

and it got so there was a throbbing, there was a ferocious fear in my head.

i postalo je tako probadajuće da se stvorio surovi strah u mojoj glavi.

You've seen this painting by Edvard Munch, "The Scream."

Videli ste ovu sliku Edvarda Munka,

Vrisak. Svaki trenutak je bio vrisak.

Every moment was a scream; it was impossible.

So they decided there was no therapy, there was no treatment.

Bio je nemoguće. Zato su odlučili da nema terapije,

But there was one treatment,

da nema lečenja. Ali postojao je jedan tretman,

which actually had been pioneered at the Hartford Hospital

koji je zapravo bio započet u Hartford bolnici u ranim 1940-im

in the early 1940s,

and you can imagine what it was: it was prefrontal lobotomy.

i možete zamisliti šta je to bilo. Bila je to prefrontalna lobotomija.

(Imitates a popping sound)

So they decided -- I didn't know this, again, I found this out later --

Zato su rešili - nisam znao za ovo, opet,

saznao sam tek kasnije -

that the only thing that could be done

da jedina stvar koja se može uraditi je

was for this 43-year-old man to have a prefrontal lobotomy.

da ovaj 43-godišnjak ima prefrontalnu

lobotomiju.

Well, as in all hospitals,

Kao i u svim bolnicama, jedan stažista

there was a resident assigned to my case.

je dodeljen mom slučaju. Imao je 27 godina

He was 27 years old,

and he would meet with me two or three times a week.

i posećivao me je 2-3 puta nedeljno.

And of course, I had been there, what, three or four months at the time.

I naravno, ja sam bio tamo oko 3-4 meseca u to vreme.

He asked to meet with the senior staff, and they agreed to meet with him,

I on je tražio da se sastane sa upravom, oni su prihvatili da se sastanu sa njim

because he was very well thought of in that place.

jer su svi imali dobro mišljenje o njemu.

Mislili su da ga čeka zaista izuzetna budućnost.

They thought he had a really extraordinary future.

And he dug in his heels and said,

On je izvukao iz petnih žila i rekao:

"No. I know this man better than any of you.

"Ne. Poznajem ovog čoveka bolje nego bilo ko od vas. Viđao sam ga iznova i iznova.

I have met with him over and over again.

You've just seen him from time to time. You've read reports and so forth.

Vi ste ga viđali s vremena na vreme. Pročitali ste izveštaje i tako dalje.

I really honestly believe that the basic problem here is pure depression,

Zaista verujem da je glavni problem ovde čista depresija

and all of the obsessional thinking comes out of it.

i da sva ta opsesivna razmišljanja dolaze od nje.

And you know, of course, what'll happen if you do a prefrontal lobotomy.

A znate, naravno, šta će se desiti ako izvedete prefrontalnu lobotomiju.

Any of the results along the spectrum,

Svi rezultati širom spektra,

from pretty bad to terrible, terrible, terrible, is going to happen.

od prilično loših ka očajnim, očajnim, očajnim

će se desiti. Ako se svojski potrudi,

If he does the best he can,

he will have no further obsessions,

on neće imati više opsesije,

probably no depression,

verovatno ne depresiju, ali njegove reakcije će biti otupljene,

but his affect will be dulled,

he will never go back to surgery,

nikad se neće vratiti hirurgiji,

he will never be the loving father that he was to his two children,

nikad neće biti dobar otac svoja 2 deteta,

his life will be changed.

njegov život će se promeniti. Ako ima uobičajene rezultate,

If he has the usual result,

he'll end up like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.'

završiće kao "Let iznad kukavičjeg gnezda".

And you know about that, just essentially in a stupor the rest of his life."

A znate sve o tome, samo u suštini obamrlost do kraja svog života."

"Well," he said, "can't we try a course of electroshock therapy?"

Pa, rekao je: "Možemo li da probamo sa elektrošok terapijom?"

And you know why they agreed?

They agreed to humor him.

I znate li zašto su se složili? Složili su se da bi mu udovoljili.

They just thought, "Well, we'll give a course of 10.

Samo su pomislili: "Pa, daćemo mu 10 tretmana.

So we'll lose a little time. Big deal. It doesn't make any difference."

Time ćemo malo da izgubimo vreme. Jaka stvar. Ionako ništa neće da se promeni."

So they gave the course of 10,

Te su dali 10 tretmana,

and the first -- the usual course, incidentally, was six to eight,

i prvi je - uobičajen tretman, slučajno, bio 6 do 8

and still is six to eight --

i dalje je 6 do 8.

plugged me into the wires, put me to sleep, gave me the muscle relaxant.

Priključili su me na žice, uspavali me, dali mi lek za opuštanje mišića.

Six didn't work. Seven didn't work. Eight didn't work.

6 nije delovalo. 7 nije delovalo.

8 nije delovalo. Kod 9., sam primetio -

At nine, I noticed --

bilo je sjajno što sam bilo šta primetio

it's wonderful that I could notice anything --

I noticed a change.

- primetio sam promenu. A kod 10. sam osetio pravu promenu.

And at 10, I noticed a real change.

And he went back to them,

On se vratio kod njih i oni su pristali na još 10.

and they agreed to do another 10.

Again, not a single one of them --

Ponovo, nijedan od njih

I think there are about seven or eight of them --

- mislim da ih je bilo oko 7 ili 8 -

thought this would do any good.

nije mislio da će ovo pomoći. Mislili su da je to privremena promena.

They thought this was a temporary change.

Ali vidite, do 16., do 17.,

But, lo and behold, by 16, by 17,

there were demonstrable differences in the way I felt.

bilo je očiglednih razlika u tome kako sam se osećao.

By 18 and 19, I was sleeping through the night.

Do 18. i 19., spavao sam cele noći.

And by 20, I had the sense, I really had the sense,

Do 20. imao sam osećaj, zaista sam imao osećaj

da mogu ovo da prevaziđem,

that I could overcome this,

that I was now strong enough that by an act of will,

da sam sada dovoljno jak da snagom volje,

I could blow the obsessional thinking away.

mogu da odagnam opsesivna razmišljanja.

I could blow the depression away.

Da mogu da odagnam depresiju.

And I've never forgotten -- I never will forget --

I nikada nisam zaboravio - nikad neću zaboraviti

standing in the kitchen of the unit --

- stajao sam u kuhinji na odeljenju,

it was a Sunday morning in January of 1974 --

bila je nedelja ujutru januara 1974.,

standing in the kitchen by myself and thinking,

stajao sam u kuhinji na odeljenju sam i razmišljao: "Sada imam snage da ovo prevaziđem."

"I've got the strength now to do this."

It was as though those tightly coiled wires in my head had been disconnected,

To je bilo kao da su se one čelične žice u mojoj glavi isključile

and I could think clearly.

i mogu da razmišljam jasno.

But I need a formula.

Ali treba mi formula. Treba mi nešto da kažem sebi

I need some thing to say to myself

when I begin thinking obsessionally, obsessively.

kada počnem opsesivno da razmišljam.

Well, the Gilbert and Sullivan fans in this room

Pa, fanovi Gilberta i Salivena u ovoj prostoriji

will remember "Ruddigore,"

se sećaju Rudigora i setiće se Mad Margaret

and they will remember Mad Margaret,

and they will remember that she was married

i setiće se da je ona bila udata

to a fella named Sir Despard Murgatroyd.

za momka po imenu ser Despard Murgatrojd.

And she used to go nuts every five minutes or so in the play.

Ona je imala običaj da poludi na svakih 5 minuta u predstavi,

And he said to her, "We must have a word to bring you back to reality,

i on joj je rekao: "Moramo da imamo reč koja će te vratiti u realnost

and the word, my dear, will be 'Basingstoke.'"

i ta reč, draga moja, biće Basingstok."

So every time she got a little nuts, he would say, "Basingstoke!"

Tako da svaki put kad bi malo poludela,

on bi rekao: "Basingstok!" i ona bi rekla:

And she would say, "Basingstoke, it is!" And she'd be fine for a little while.

"Basingstok, će biti." I bila bi dobro neko vreme.

(Laughter)

Well, you know, I'm from the Bronx. I can't say "Basingstoke."

Znate ja sam iz Bronksa. Ja ne mogu reći: "Basingstok".

(Laughter)

But I had something better.

Imao sam nešto bolje. I bilo je vrlo jednostavno.

And it was very simple.

It was, "Ah, fuck it!"

Bilo je: "E, jebi ga!"

(Laughter)

(Smeh) Mnogo bolje od: "Basingstok",

Much better than "Basingstoke,"

at least for me.

bar za mene. I upalilo je - moj bože, upalilo je.

And it worked! My God, it worked.

Every time I would begin thinking obsessionally --

Svaki put kad bih počeo opsesivno da razmišljam -

again, once more, after 20 shock treatments --

opet, još jednom, nakon 20 šok tretmana

- rekao bih: "E, jebi ga."

I would say, "Ah, fuck it."

And things got better and better,

I bilo je sve bolje i bolje

and within three or four months,

i u roku od 3 ili 4 meseca,

I was discharged from that hospital.

otpušten sam iz bolnice i priključio sam se grupi hirurga,

I joined a group of surgeons, where I could work with other people,

gde sam mogao da radim sa drugim ljudima u zajednici,

in a community, not in New Haven, but fairly close by.

ne u Nju Hejvenu, ali blizu toga.

I stayed there for three years.

Ostao sam tamo 3 godine.

At the end of three years, I went back to New Haven,

Po završetku te 3 godine, vratio sam se u Nju Hejven,

had remarried by that time.

a u međuvremenu sam se ponovo oženio.

I brought my wife with me, actually, to make sure I could get through this.

Poveo sam suprugu sa sobom, zapravo, da bih bio siguran da mogu da prebrodim to.

My children

Moja deca su se vratila da žive sa nama.

came back

to live with us.

We had two more children after that.

Imali smo još dvoje dece nakon toga.

Resuscitated the career,

Oživeo sam karijeru, još više nego što je bila ranije.

even better than it had been before.

Went right back into the university

Vratio sam se pravo na univerzitet

and began to write books.

i počeo da pišem knjige.

Well, you know,

Znate, to je bio divan život.

it's been a wonderful life.

It's been, as I said, close to 30 years.

Prošlo je, kao što sam rekao, skoro 30 godina.

I stopped doing surgery about six years ago

Prestao sam da se bavim hirurgijom pre oko 6 godina

and became a full-time writer, as many people know.

i postao pisac sa punim radnim vremenom, kao što mnogi znaju.

But it's been very exciting. It's been very happy.

Bilo je veoma uzbudljivo. Bilo je veoma srećno.

Every once in a while, I have to say, "Ah, fuck it."

S vremena na vreme, moram da kažem: "E, jebi ga."

Every once in a while, I get somewhat depressed and a little obsessional.

S vremena na vreme, postanem pomalo depresivan i malo opsesivan.

Tako da se nisam oslobodio svega toga. Ali je upalilo. Uvek upali.

So, I'm not free of all of this.

But it's worked. It's always worked.

Why have I chosen,

Zašto sam izabrao, nakon što nikada nisam govorio o ovome, da govorim sada?

after never, ever talking about this,

to talk about it now?

Well, those of you who know some of these books

Oni koji znaju neke od ovih knjiga

know that one is about death and dying,

znaju da je jedna o smrti i umiranju,

one is about the human body and the human spirit,

jedna je o ljudskom telu i ljudskom duhu,

one is about the way mystical thoughts are constantly in our minds.

jedna je o načinu na koji su mistične misli uvek u našem umu

And they have always to do with my own personal experiences.

i one uvek imaju veze sa mojim ličnim iskustvom.

One might think reading these books --

Neko bi pomislio čitajući ove knjige

and I've gotten thousands of letters about them

- a dobio sam hiljade pisama o njima

by people who do think this --

od ljudi koji zaista ovo misle -

that, based on my life's history as I portray it in the books,

da zasnovano na istoriji mog života kao što sam opisao u knjigama,

my early life's history,

istorija mog ranog života, ja sam neko ko je prevazišao nesreću.

I am someone who has overcome adversity,

that I am someone who has drunk -- drank? -- drunk

A to je da sam ja, neko ko je pijan, pio, pije

of the bitter dregs of near-disaster in childhood

gorak talog zamalo katastrofalnog detinjstva,

and emerged not just unscathed but strengthened.

isplivao ne samo nepovređen već i ojačan.

I really have it figured out

Zaista sam shvatio, tako da mogu da savetujem ljude o

so that I can advise people about death and dying,

smrti i umiranju, tako da mogu da pričam o misticizmu i ljudskom duhu.

so that I can talk about mysticism

and the human spirit.

And I've always felt guilty about that.

Oduvek sam se osećao krivim zbog toga.

I've always felt that somehow I was an impostor,

Oduvek sam osećao da sam nekako uljez

because my readers don't know what I have just told you.

jer moji čitaoci ne znaju šta sam vama upravo rekao.

It's known by some people in New Haven, obviously,

Poznato je nekim ljudima u Nju Hejvenu, očito,

but it is not generally known.

ali nije opšte poznato.

So one of the reasons that I have come here to talk about this today

Stoga, jedan od razloga zbog kog sam došao ovde da govorim o ovome danas

je da - iskreno, sebično -

is to -- frankly, selfishly --

unburden myself and let it be known

rasteretim sebe i stavim do znanja

that this is not an untroubled mind that has written all of these books.

da ovo nije neopterećen mozak koji je napisao sve ove knjige.

But more importantly, I think,

Ali što je još važnije, mislim,

is the fact that a very significant proportion of people in this audience

je činjenica da veoma značajan deo

ljudi u publici ima ispod 30 godina

are under 30,

and there are many, of course, who are well over 30.

i ima mnogih, naravno, koji su uveliko prešli 30.

For people under 30,

Za ljude ispod 30, a meni se čini da skoro svi vi

and it looks to me like almost all of you, I would say all of you,

- rekao bih svi vi -

are either on the cusp of a magnificent and exciting career

su ili na vrhuncu veličanstvene i uzbudljive karijere

or right into a magnificent and exciting career:

ili usred veličanstvene i uzbudljive karijere:

anything can happen to you.

svašta vam se može desiti. Stvari se menjaju.

Things change.

Accidents happen.

Nesreće se dešavaju. Nešto iz detinjstva se vrati da vas proganja.

Something from childhood comes back to haunt you.

You can be thrown off the track.

Možete ispasti iz koloseka.

I hope it happens to none of you,

Nadam se da se to nikome od vas neće desiti,

but it will probably happen to a small percentage of you.

ali verovatno će se desiti malom delu vas.

To those to whom it doesn't happen, there will be adversities.

Za one kojima se ne desi, postojaće nesreće.

If I, with the bleakness of spirit -- with no spirit --

Ako ja, sa opustelim duhom,

bez duha, ono što sam doživljavao 1970-ih,

that I had in the 1970s,

and no possibility of recovery

bez mogućnosti oporavka,

as far as that group of very experienced psychiatrists thought,

kao što je ta grupa veoma iskusnih psihijatara mislila,

if I can find my way back from this,

ako sam ja mogao da nađem izlaz iz toga,

verujte mi, svako može da nađe izlaz

believe me, anybody can find their way back

from any adversity that exists in their lives.

iz bilo koje nesreće koja postoji u našim životima.

And for those who are older,

who have lived through perhaps not something as bad as this,

A za one koji su stariji, koji su preživeli

nešto možda ne toliko loše kao ovo,

but who have lived through difficult times,

ali koji su proživeli teška vremena,

perhaps where they lost everything, as I did,

gde su možda izgubili sve, kao ja

and started out all over again:

i počeli sve ispočetka, nešto od ovoga će im delovati vrlo poznato.

some of these things will seem very familiar.

There is recovery.

Postoji oporavak.

There is redemption.

Postoji iskupljenje. I postoji vaskrsnuće.

And there is resurrection.

There are resurrection themes

Postoje teme o vaskrsnuću u svakom društvu koje je ikada bilo proučavano

in every society that has ever been studied,

and it is because not just only do we fantasize

i to ne samo što maštamo

about the possibility of resurrection and recovery,

o mogućnosti vaskrsnuća i oporavka,

but it actually happens.

već zato što se to zaista dešava. I dešava se često.

And it happens a lot.

Perhaps the most popular resurrection theme,

Možda najpopularnija tema o vaskrsnuću,

outside of specifically religious ones,

van onih religioznih,

is the one about the phoenix, the ancient story of the phoenix,

je ona o feniksu, drevna priča o feniksu,

who, every 500 years,

koji, svakih 500 godina, vaskrsne iz svog pepela

resurrects itself from its own ashes

to go on to live a life

da bi živeo život koji je

that is even more beautiful than it was before.

još lepši od prethodnog. Ričarde,

Richard, thanks very much.

mnogo ti hvala.