Sherwin Nuland: How electroshock therapy changed me

309,093 views ใƒป 2007-10-30

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืชืจื’ื•ื: Shlomo Adam ืขืจื™ื›ื”: Yifat Adler
00:25
I'd like to do pretty much what I did the first time,
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ื‘ืจืฆื•ื ื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžื” ืฉืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื‘ืคืขื ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื”,
00:28
which is to choose a lighthearted theme.
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ืฉื–ื” ืœื‘ื—ื•ืจ ื ื•ืฉื ืงืœื™ืœ.
00:31
Last time, I talked about death and dying.
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ื‘ืคืขื ื”ืงื•ื“ืžืช ืฉื•ื—ื—ืชื™ ืขืœ ืžื•ื•ืช ื•ื’ืกื™ืกื”.
00:33
(Laughter)
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00:34
This time, I'm going to talk about mental illness.
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ื•ื”ืคืขื ืื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืžื—ืœื•ืช-ื ืคืฉ.
00:37
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
00:38
But it has to be technological,
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ืืžื•ืจ ืœื”ื™ืฉืžืข ื˜ื›ื ื•ืœื•ื’ื™,
00:40
so I'll talk about electroshock therapy.
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ืœื›ืŸ ืื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื”ืœื ื—ืฉืžืœื™.
00:42
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
00:45
You know, ever since man had any notion
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ืžืื– ืฉืœืื“ื ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ืฉื’ ื›ืœืฉื”ื•
00:48
that some of his other people, his colleagues,
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ืขืœ ื›ืš ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื, ื—ื‘ืจื™ื• ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ื”,
00:52
could be different, could be strange, could be severely depressed
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ืขืœื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื™ื ืื• ืžื•ื–ืจื™ื,
ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื—ืžื•ืจ, ืื• ืžื” ืฉืื ื• ืžื–ื”ื™ื ื›ื™ื•ื ื›ืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื”,
00:56
or what we now recognize as schizophrenia,
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01:00
he was certain that this kind of illness had to come from evil spirits
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื˜ื•ื— ืฉืกื•ื’ ื–ื” ืฉืœ ื—ื•ืœื™
ืžืงื•ืจื• ื•ื“ืื™ ื‘ืจื•ื— ืจืขื” ืฉื ื›ื ืกื” ืœื’ื•ืฃ,
01:05
getting into the body.
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01:06
So the way of treating these diseases in early times
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ืœื›ืŸ ื‘ื–ืžื ื™ื ืงื“ื•ืžื™ื, ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ืžื—ืœื•ืช ืืœื”
01:09
was to, in some way or other, exorcise those evil spirits.
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ื”ื™ื” ื’ื™ืจื•ืฉ-ืฉื“ื™ื ื›ื–ื” ืื• ืื—ืจ,
01:12
And this is still going on, as you know.
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ื•ื–ื” ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืงื™ื™ื, ื›ืคื™ ืฉืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื.
01:16
But it wasn't enough to use the priests.
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ืืš ืœื ื“ื™ ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื™ืขื–ืจ ื‘ื›ืžืจื™ื.
01:18
When medicine became somewhat scientific, in about 450 BC,
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ื›ืฉื”ืจืคื•ืื” ื ืขืฉืชื” ืžื“ืขื™ืช ื‘ืžื™ื“ืช-ืžื”,
ื‘-450 ืœืคื ื”"ืก ื‘ืขืจืš, ืขื ื”ื™ืคื•ืงืจื˜ืก ื•ืฉืืจ ื”ื—ื‘ืจ'ื”,
01:23
with Hippocrates and those boys,
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01:25
they tried to look for herbs, plants
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ื”ื ื ื™ืกื• ืœืžืฆื•ื ืขืฉื‘ื™ื ื•ืฆืžื—ื™ื
01:28
that would literally shake the bad spirits out.
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ืฉืžืžืฉ ื™ื ืขืจื• ื•ื™ื•ืฆื™ืื• ืืช ื”ืจื•ื—ื•ืช ื”ืจืขื•ืช,
01:32
So they found certain plants that could cause convulsions.
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ื•ื”ื ืžืฆืื• ืฆืžื—ื™ื ืžืกื•ื™ืžื™ื ืฉื’ื•ืจืžื™ื ืœืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช.
01:35
And the herbals,
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ื•ืกืคืจื™ ื”ื‘ื•ื˜ื ื™ืงื” ืขื“ ืฉืœื”ื™ ื™ืžื™-ื”ื‘ื™ื ื™ื™ื,
01:37
the botanical books of up to the late Middle Ages, the Renaissance,
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ื”ืจื ืกื ืก, ืžืœืื™ื ื‘ืžื™ืจืฉืžื™ื ืœื’ืจื™ืžืช ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช
01:42
are filled with prescriptions for causing convulsions
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01:46
to shake the evil spirits out.
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ืฉื™ื ืขืจื• ื”ื—ื•ืฆื” ืืช ื”ืจื•ื—ื•ืช ื”ืจืขื•ืช.
01:50
Finally, in about the 16th century,
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ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ, ื‘ืขืจืš ื‘ืžืื” ื”-16,
01:54
a physician whose name was Theophrastus Bombastus Aureolus von Hohenheim --
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ืจื•ืคื ื‘ืฉื ืชื™ืื•ืคืจืกื˜ื•ืก ื‘ื•ืžื‘ืกื˜ื•ืก ืื•ืจื™ืงื•ืœืจื™ืก ืคื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื”ื ื”ื™ื™ื
02:00
called Paracelsus, a name probably familiar to some people here --
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ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” "ืคืจืฆืœืกื•ืก", ืฉื ืฉื•ื•ื“ืื™ ืžื•ื›ืจ ืœืื—ื“ื™ื ื›ืืŸ,
02:04
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
02:07
good old Paracelsus --
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ืคืจืฆืœืกื•ืก ื”ื—ื‘ื™ื‘...
02:09
found that he could predict the degree of convulsion
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ื”ื•ื ืžืฆื ืฉื‘ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื• ืœื—ื–ื•ืช ืืช ืขื•ืฆืžืช ื”ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช
02:13
by using a measured amount of camphor to produce the convulsion.
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ืื ื™ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื›ืžื•ืช ืžื“ื•ื“ื” ืฉืœ ืงืžืคื•ืจ (ืžื•ืจ) ืœื”ืคืงืช ื”ืขื•ื•ื™ืช.
02:17
Can you imagine going to your closet, pulling out a mothball
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ื–ื” ื›ืžื• ืœื’ืฉืช ืœืืจื•ืŸ,
ืœืงื—ืช ื›ื“ื•ืจ ื ืคื˜ืœื™ืŸ ื•ืœืœืขื•ืก ืื•ืชื• ื›ืฉืืชื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
02:20
and chewing on it if you're feeling depressed?
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02:22
It's better than Prozac, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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ื–ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ื˜ื•ื‘ ืžืคืจื•ื–ืง, ืืš ืื™ื ื™ ืžืžืœื™ืฅ ืขืœ ื›ืš.
02:25
(Laughter)
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02:26
So, what we see in the 17th, 18th century
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ืžื” ืฉืื ื• ืจื•ืื™ื ื‘ืžืื•ืช ื”-17 ื•ื”-18 ื”ื•ื
02:29
is the continued search for medications other than camphor that'll do the trick.
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ื”ืžืฉืš ื—ื™ืคื•ืฉ ื”ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ืžืœื‘ื“ ืงืžืคื•ืจ, ืฉื™ืขืฉื• ืืช ื”ืงืกื ื”ื–ื”.
02:34
Well, along comes Benjamin Franklin,
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ื•ืื– ื”ื’ื™ืข ื‘ื ื’'ืžื™ืŸ ืคืจื ืงืœื™ืŸ ืฉื›ืžืขื˜ ื•ื’ืจื ืœืขืฆืžื• ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช
02:36
and he comes close to convulsing himself
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02:38
with a bolt of electricity off the end of his kite.
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ื‘ืขื–ืจืช ื‘ืจืง ืžื–ื ื‘ ื”ืขืคื™ืคื•ืŸ ืฉืœื•.
02:42
And so people begin thinking in terms of electricity to produce convulsions.
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ื•ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ื—ืœื• ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืขืœ ื—ืฉืžืœ ื›ืืžืฆืขื™ ืœื—ื•ืœืœ ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช.
02:47
And then we fast-forward to about 1932,
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ื ืจื™ืฅ ืงื“ื™ืžื” ืœ-1932,
02:51
when three Italian psychiatrists who were largely treating depression
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ื›ืฉืฉืœื•ืฉื” ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ื ืื™ื˜ืœืงื™ื™ื, ืฉื˜ื™ืคืœื• ื”ืจื‘ื” ื‘ื“ื™ื›ืื•ืŸ,
02:57
began to notice among their patients, who were also epileptics,
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ืฉืžื• ืœื‘ ืฉื›ืืฉืจ ื—ื•ืœื™ ืžื—ืœืช-ื”ื ืคื™ืœื” ืžื‘ื™ืŸ ื—ื•ืœื™ื”ื
ืœืงื• ื‘ื”ืชืงืฃ, ื‘ืกื“ืจืช ื”ืชืงืคื™ื,
03:01
that if they had a series of epileptic fits, a lot of them in a row --
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ื”ืชืงืคื™ื ืจื‘ื™ื ื‘ืจืฆื™ืคื•ืช, ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืœืจื•ื‘ ืฉื›ืš.
03:05
the depression would very frequently lift.
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03:07
Not only would it lift, but it might never return.
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ื•ืœื ืจืง ืฉื›ืš, ืืœื ืœืขืชื™ื ื ืขืœื ืœื’ืžืจื™.
03:11
So they got very interested in producing convulsions,
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ื•ื”ื ื”ื—ืœื• ืœื”ืชืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืžืื“ ื‘ื“ืจื›ื™ื ืœื—ื•ืœืœ ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช,
03:16
measured types of convulsions.
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ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช ืžื‘ื•ืงืจื•ืช.
ื•ื—ืฉื‘ื•, "ื”ืจื™ ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ื—ืฉืžืœ. ื ื—ื‘ืจ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืœืฉืงืข.
03:18
And they thought,
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03:19
"Well, we've got electricity, we'll plug somebody into the wall.
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"ื–ื” ืชืžื™ื“ ืžืกืžืจ ืืช ื”ืฉื™ืขืจ ื•ืžื˜ืœื˜ืœ ืžืื“ ืืช ื”ืื ืฉื™ื"
03:22
That always makes hair stand up and people shake a lot."
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03:24
So they tried it on a few pigs, and none of the pigs were killed.
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ื”ื ื ื™ืกื• ื–ืืช ืขืœ ื›ืžื” ื—ื–ื™ืจื™ื ื•ืืฃ ื—ื–ื™ืจ ืœื ื ื”ืจื’.
03:28
So they went to the police and they said,
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ืื– ื”ื ืคื ื• ืœืžืฉื˜ืจื” ื•ืืžืจื•,
03:30
"We know that at the Rome railroad station,
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"ืื ื• ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืฉื‘ืชื—ื ืช ื”ืจื›ื‘ืช ืฉืœ ืจื•ืžื
03:32
there are all these lost souls wandering around,
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"ืžืฉื•ื˜ื˜ื•ืช ื›ืœ ืื•ืชืŸ ื ืฉืžื•ืช ืื‘ื•ื“ื•ืช
03:35
muttering gibberish.
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"ืฉืžืžืœืžืœื•ืช ืฉื˜ื•ื™ื•ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœื”ื‘ื™ื ืœื ื• ืื—ื“ ืžื”ื?"
03:36
Can you bring one of them to us?"
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03:39
Someone who is, as the Italians say, "gagootz."
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ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ื”ืžื›ื•ื ื” ื‘ืคื™ ื”ืื™ื˜ืœืงื™ื "ืงืื’ื•ื–."
03:42
So they found this "gagootz" guy,
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ืื– ื”ื ืžืฆืื• ืืช ื”ื‘ื—ื•ืจ ื”"ืงืื’ื•ื–" ื”ื–ื”,
03:44
a 39-year-old man who was really hopelessly schizophrenic,
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ื’ื‘ืจ ื‘ืŸ 39, ืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจืŸ ื—ืกืจ-ืชืงื•ื•ื”,
03:47
who was known, had been known for months,
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ืฉื”ื™ื” ื™ื“ื•ืข ื›ืžื™ ืฉืžื–ื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื ืžืžืฉ ืžื˜ื ืฃ ืขืฆืžื• ื‘ืฆืจื›ื™ื•
03:50
to be literally defecating on himself,
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03:53
talking nothing that made any sense,
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ื•ืœื ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื’ื™ื•ื ื™,
03:56
and they brought him into the hospital.
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ื•ื”ื›ื ื™ืกื• ืื•ืชื• ืœื‘ื™ืช ื”ื—ื•ืœื™ื.
03:58
So these three psychiatrists,
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ื•ืฉืœื•ืฉืช ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื”, ืื—ืจื™ ื”ืกืชื›ืœื•ืช ื‘ืช ืฉื‘ื•ืขื™ื™ื-ืฉืœื•ืฉื”,
04:00
after about two or three weeks of observation,
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04:02
laid him down on a table,
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ื”ืฉื›ื™ื‘ื• ืื•ืชื• ืขืœ ืฉื•ืœื—ืŸ,
04:04
connected his temples to a very small source of current.
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ื—ื™ื‘ืจื• ืœืจืงื•ืชื™ื• ืžืงื•ืจ ื–ืจื ื—ืœืฉ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
04:09
They thought, "Well, we'll try 55 volts, two-tenths of a second.
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ื•ื—ืฉื‘ื•, "ื ื ืกื” 55 ื•ื•ืœื˜ ืœืžืฉืš ืฉืชื™ ืขืฉื™ืจื™ื•ืช ื”ืฉื ื™ื”.
04:13
That's not going to do anything terrible to him."
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ื–ื” ืœื ื™ืขื•ืœืœ ืœื• ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ ื ื•ืจื." ื•ื›ืš ืขืฉื•.
04:15
So they did that.
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04:17
Well, I have the following from a firsthand observer,
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ืืช ืžื” ืฉืื•ืžืจ ืœื”ืœืŸ ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืžืขื“ ืจืื™ื”,
04:21
who told me this about 35 years ago,
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ืฉืกื™ืคืจ ืœื™ ื–ืืช ืœืคื ื™ 35 ืฉื ื”,
04:24
when I was thinking about these things for some research project of mine.
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ื›ืฉื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืขืœ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื” ืœืฆื•ืจืš ืžื—ืงืจ ืฉืœื™.
04:29
He said, "This fellow" -- remember, he wasn't even put to sleep --
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ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ื”ื‘ื—ื•ืจ ื”ื–ื”" - ื–ื™ื›ืจื•, ื”ื•ื ืืคื™ืœื• ืœื ื”ื•ืจื“ื -
04:33
"after this major grand mal convulsion,
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"ืื—ืจื™ ื”ืชืงืฃ ื”ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœ,
04:35
sat right up,
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ื”ืชื™ื™ืฉื‘, ื”ื‘ื™ื˜ ื‘ืฉืœื•ืฉืช ื”ื—ื‘ืจ'ื” ื”ืืœื” ื•ืืžืจ,
04:37
looked at these three fellas and said,
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04:39
'What the fuck are you assholes trying to do?'"
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"ืžื” ืœืขื–ืื–ืœ ืืชื ืžื ืกื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช, ื™ื ื—ืืจื•ืช?"
04:42
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
04:50
If I could only say that in Italian.
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ืœื• ืจืง ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื•ืžืจ ื–ืืช ื‘ืื™ื˜ืœืงื™ืช.
04:52
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
04:53
Well, they were happy as could be,
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ื›ืš ืฉื”ื ื”ื™ื• ื ื•ืจื ืžืื•ืฉืจื™ื,
04:55
because he hadn't said a rational word in the weeks of observation.
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ืฉื”ืจื™ ื”ื•ื ืœื ืืžืจ ื“ื‘ืจ-ื”ื’ื™ื•ืŸ ื‘ืžืฉืš ื›ืœ ืฉื‘ื•ืขื•ืช ื”ื”ืกืชื›ืœื•ืช.
05:00
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
05:02
So they plugged him in again,
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ืื– ื”ื ื—ื™ื‘ืจื• ืื•ืชื• ืฉื•ื‘ ืœื—ืฉืžืœ,
05:05
and this time, they used 110 volts for half a second.
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ื•ื”ืคืขื ื”ืฉืชืžืฉื• ื‘-110 ื•ื•ืœื˜ ืœืžืฉืš ื—ืฆื™ ืฉื ื™ื”,
05:10
And to their amazement, after it was over,
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ื•ืœืชื“ื”ืžืชื, ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื–ื” ื”ืกืชื™ื™ื,
05:12
he began speaking like he was perfectly well.
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื—ืœ ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื›ืื™ืœื• ื”ื•ื ื‘ืจื™ื ืœื’ืžืจื™.
05:15
He relapsed a little bit, they gave him a series of treatments,
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ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื• ื ืกื™ื’ื” ืงืœื”, ื”ื ื ืชื ื• ืœื• ืกื“ืจืช ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื,
05:18
and he was essentially cured.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื‘ืขืฆื ื ืจืคื.
05:19
But of course, having schizophrenia,
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ืืš ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ, ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ืœื• ืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื”,
05:22
within a few months, it returned.
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ื‘ืชื•ืš ื›ืžื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื ื”ื™ื ื—ื–ืจื”.
05:24
But they wrote a paper about this,
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ืืš ื”ื ื›ืชื‘ื• ืขืœ ื›ืš ืžืืžืจ,
05:26
and everybody in the western world began using electricity
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ื•ื›ื•ืœื ื‘ืขื•ืœื ื”ืžืขืจื‘ื™ ื”ื—ืœื• ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื—ืฉืžืœ
05:31
to convulse people who were either schizophrenic
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ืœื’ืจื™ืžืช ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช ืœืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื™ื ืื• ื‘ืขืœื™ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื—ืžื•ืจ.
05:33
or severely depressed.
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05:34
It didn't work very well on the schizophrenics,
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ื–ื” ืœื ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ื”ืฆืœื™ื— ืขื ื”ืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื™ื,
05:37
but it was pretty clear in the '30s and by the middle of the '40s
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ืืš ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืœืžื“ื™, ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-30 ื•ืขื“ ืืžืฆืข ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-40
05:40
that electroconvulsive therapy was very, very effective
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ืฉื’ืจื™ืžืช ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช ื‘ื—ืฉืžืœ ื”ื™ื ืžืื“ ืžืื“ ื™ืขื™ืœื”
05:46
in the treatment of depression.
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ืœื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
05:47
And of course, in those days, there were no antidepressant drugs,
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ื•ืื– ืœื ื”ื™ื• ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ื ื’ื“-ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
05:51
and it became very, very popular.
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ื•ื–ื” ื ืขืฉื” ืžืื“ ืคื•ืคื•ืœืจื™.
05:54
They would anesthetize people, convulse them ...
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ื”ื ืื™ืœื—ืฉื• ืืช ื”ืื ืฉื™ื,
ื’ืจืžื• ืœื”ื ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช, ืืš ื”ืงื•ืฉื™ ื”ืขื™ืงืจื™ ื”ื™ื”
05:57
But the real difficulty was that there was no way to paralyze muscles.
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ืฉืœื ื”ื™ืชื” ื“ืจืš ืœืฉืชืง ืฉืจื™ืจื™ื,
06:01
So people would have a real grand mal seizure.
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ื•ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื—ื˜ืคื• ื”ืชืงืคื™ ืขื•ื•ื™ืชื•ืช ื—ื–ืงื™ื,
06:04
Bones were broken; especially in old, fragile people, you couldn't use it.
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ืขืฆืžื•ืช ื ืฉื‘ืจื•, ื‘ืคืจื˜ ืฉืœ ืื ืฉื™ื ื–ืงื ื™ื ื•ืฉื‘ืจื™ืจื™ื™ื,
ืื™-ืืคืฉืจ ื”ื™ื” ืœื”ืฉืชืžืฉ ื‘ื–ื”.
06:09
And then in the late 1950s, the so-called "muscle relaxants"
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ื•ืื– ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-50 ื”ืžืื•ื—ืจื•ืช, ืจื•ืงื—ื™ื ืคื™ืชื—ื• ืกืžื™ ื”ืจื’ืขืช-ืฉืจื™ืจื™ื
06:14
were developed by pharmacologists,
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06:16
and it got so that you could induce a complete convulsion,
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื’ื™ืข ืœื›ืš ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ื”ื™ื” ืœื’ืจื•ื ืขื•ื•ื™ืช ืžืœืื”,
06:19
an electroencephalographic convulsion -- you could see it on the brain waves --
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ืขื•ื•ื™ืช ืืœืงื˜ืจื•-ืื ืฆืคืœื•ื’ืจืคื™ืช, ืฉื ืจืื™ืช ื‘ื’ืœื™ ื”ืžื•ื—,
06:23
without causing any convulsion in the body
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ื‘ืœื™ ืœื’ืจื•ื ืœืขื•ื•ื™ืช ื‘ื’ื•ืฃ, ืคืจื˜ ืœื›ื™ื•ื•ืฅ ื‘ื”ื•ื ื•ืช.
06:25
except a little bit of twitching of the toes.
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06:28
So again, it was very, very popular and very, very useful.
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ื•ื–ื” ืฉื•ื‘ ื ืขืฉื” ืžืื“ ืคื•ืคื•ืœืจื™ ื•ืžืื“ ืžื•ืขื™ืœ.
06:33
Well, you know, in the middle '60s, the first antidepressants came out.
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ื›ืžื• ืฉืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื, ื‘ืืžืฆืข ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-60,
ื™ืฆื ื”ืกื ื ื•ื’ื“-ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ, "ื˜ื•ืคืจื ื™ืœ".
06:38
Tofranil was the first.
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06:40
In the late '70s, early '80s, there were others,
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ื‘ืฉืœื”ื™ ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-70 ื•ื‘ืชื—ื™ืœืช ื”-80 ื ื•ืกืคื• ืื—ืจื™ื,
06:43
and they were very effective.
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ื•ื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืžืื“ ืืคืงื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื™ื,
06:45
And patients' rights groups seemed to get very upset
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ื•ื’ื•ืคื™ ื”ื’ื ืช ื–ื›ื•ื™ื•ืช-ื”ื—ื•ืœื™ื ื”ืชืจื’ื–ื• ืžืื“
06:48
about the kinds of things that they would witness,
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ืœืžืจืื” ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืœื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืขื“ื™ื,
06:51
so the whole idea of electroconvulsive, electroshock therapy disappeared,
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ื•ื›ืš ื ื’ื ื– ื›ืœ ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ืขื•ื•ื™ืช ื—ืฉืžืœื™ืช ื•ื‘ื”ืœื ื—ืฉืžืœื™
06:57
but has had a renaissance in the last 10 years.
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ืืš ื”ื•ื ื–ื›ื” ืœืชื—ื™ื™ื” ื‘ืขืฉืจ ื”ืฉื ื™ื ื”ืื—ืจื•ื ื•ืช.
07:01
And the reason that it has had a renaissance
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ื•ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ืœื›ืš ืฉื”ื•ื ื–ื›ื” ืœืชื—ื™ื™ื”
07:03
is that probably about 10 percent of the people, severe depressives,
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ื”ื™ื ืฉื›ืขืฉืจื” ืื—ื•ื–ื™ื ืžื‘ืขืœื™ ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื—ืžื•ืจ
07:09
do not respond, regardless of what is done for them.
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ืœื ืžื’ื™ื‘ื™ื, ื•ืœื ืžืฉื ื” ืžื”ื• ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ.
07:14
Now why am I telling you this story at this meeting?
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ืžื“ื•ืข ืื ื™ ืžืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ื–ื” ื‘ืžืคื’ืฉ ื”ื–ื”?
07:19
I'm telling you this story because, actually,
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ืื ื™ ืžืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ื–ื” ื›ื™ ื‘ืขืฆื
07:21
ever since Richard called me and asked me to talk about --
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ืžืื– ืฉืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“ ื”ืชืงืฉืจ ื•ื‘ื™ืงืฉ ืžืžื ื™ ืœื“ื‘ืจ --
07:24
as he asked all of his speakers --
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ื›ืคื™ ืฉื‘ื™ืงืฉ ืžื›ืœ ื”ืžืจืฆื™ื ืฉืœื• --
07:26
to talk about something that would be new to this audience
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ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉื™ื”ื™ื” ื—ื“ืฉ ืœืงื”ืœ ื›ืืŸ,
07:29
that we had never talked about, never written about.
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ืฉื˜ืจื ื“ื™ื‘ืจื ื• ืขืœื™ื• ืื• ื›ืชื‘ื ื• ืขืœื™ื•,
07:32
I've been planning this moment.
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ืื ื™ ืชื›ื ื ืชื™ ืืช ื”ืจื’ืข ื”ื–ื”.
07:34
This reason really is that I am a man who, almost 30 years ago,
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ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ื”ืืžื™ืชื™ืช ื”ื™ื ืฉืื ื™ ืื“ื,
ืฉืœืคื ื™ ื›ืžืขื˜ 30 ืฉื ื”,
07:41
had his life saved by two long courses of electroshock therapy.
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ื—ื™ื™ื• ื ื™ืฆืœื• ื”ื•ื“ื•ืช ืœืฉืชื™ ืกื“ืจื•ืช ืืจื•ื›ื•ืช ืฉืœ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื”ืœื ื—ืฉืžืœื™.
07:48
And let me tell you this story.
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ื”ื‘ื” ื•ืืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืืช ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ื–ื”.
07:52
I was, in the 1960s, in a marriage.
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ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-60 ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืžืขืจื›ืช ื ื™ืฉื•ืื™ืŸ... ืœืชืืจ ืื•ืชื” ื‘ืžื™ืœื” "ืจืขื”"
07:56
To use the word "bad" would be perhaps the understatement of the year.
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ื™ื”ื™ื” ื•ื“ืื™ ืœืฉื•ืŸ ื”ื”ืžืขื˜ื” ืฉืœ ื”ืฉื ื”.
08:00
It was dreadful.
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืื™ื•ื ื•ื ื•ืจื.
08:03
There are, I'm sure, enough divorced people in this room
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ืื ื™ ื‘ื˜ื•ื— ืฉื™ืฉ ื›ืืŸ ืžืกืคื™ืง ื’ืจื•ืฉื™ื
08:06
to know about the hostility, the anger, who knows what.
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ืฉืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ืขื•ื™ื ื•ืช, ื”ื–ืขื ื•ืžื™ ื™ื•ื“ืข ืžื” ืขื•ื“.
08:12
Being someone who had had a very difficult childhood,
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ื›ืžื™ ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ืœื• ื™ืœื“ื•ืช ืงืฉื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
ื•ื”ืชื‘ื’ืจื•ืช ืงืฉื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
08:17
a very difficult adolescence --
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08:18
it had to do with not quite poverty, but close.
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- ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืฉื ืžืžืฉ ืขื•ื ื™, ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื“ื™ ืงืจื•ื‘ ืœื›ืš.
08:22
It had to do with being brought up in a family where no one spoke English,
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืœื’ื“ื•ืœ ื‘ืžืฉืคื—ื” ืฉืœื ื“ื™ื‘ืจื• ื‘ื” ืื ื’ืœื™ืช,
08:25
no one could read or write English.
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ืœื ืงืจืื• ืื• ื›ืชื‘ื• ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช.
08:27
It had to do with death and disease and lots of other things.
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ื”ื™ื• ืฉื ืžื•ื•ืช ื•ืžื—ืœื•ืช ื•ื”ืจื‘ื” ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื
08:31
I was a little prone to depression.
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ื›ืš ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ืœื™ ื ื˜ื™ื” ืงืœื” ืœื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
08:33
So, as things got worse, as we really began to hate each other,
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ื›ืฉื”ืžืฆื‘ ื”ื—ืžื™ืจ ื•ื”ืชื—ืœื ื• ืžืžืฉ ืœืฉื ื•ื ื–ื” ืืช ื–ื”,
08:37
I became progressively depressed over a period of a couple of years
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ื ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื“ื•ื›ื ืœืื•ืจืš ื›ืฉื ืชื™ื™ื,
08:41
trying to save this marriage,
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ื›ืฉื ื™ืกื™ืชื™ ืœื”ืฆื™ืœ ืืช ื”ื ื™ืฉื•ืื™ืŸ ื”ืืœื”,
08:43
which was inevitably not to be saved.
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ืฉืœืœื ืกืคืง ืœื ื ื•ืขื“ื• ืœื”ืฆืœื”.
08:47
Finally, I would schedule -- all my major surgical cases,
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ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื ื”ื’ืชื™ ืœืงื‘ื•ืข ืืช ื”ื ื™ืชื•ื—ื™ื ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœื™ื ืฉืœื™
08:52
I was scheduling them for 12, one o'clock in the afternoon,
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ืœ-12 ืื• ืื—ืช ื‘ืฆื”ืจื™ื™ื,
08:57
because I couldn't get out of bed before about 11 o'clock.
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ื›ื™ ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืฆืืช ืžื”ืžื™ื˜ื” ืœืคื ื™ 11 ื‘ื‘ื•ืงืจ.
09:01
Anybody who's been depressed here knows what that's like.
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ื›ืœ ืžื™ ืฉื”ื™ื” ืžื“ื•ื›ื ื›ืืŸ ื™ื•ื“ืข ืื™ืš ื–ื”.
ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืืคื™ืœื• ืœืžืฉื•ืš ืžืขืœื™ ืืช ื”ืฉืžื™ื›ื”.
09:05
I couldn't even pull the covers off myself.
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09:07
Well, you're in a university medical center,
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ืื– ืืชื” ื ืžืฆื ื‘ืžืจื›ื– ืจืคื•ืื™ ืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ืื™,
09:10
where everybody knows everybody.
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ืฉื‘ื• ื›ื•ืœื ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื›ื•ืœื, ื•ืœืงื•ืœื’ื•ืช ืฉืœื™ ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืžื” ืงื•ืจื”,
09:11
And it's perfectly clear to my colleagues, so my referrals began to decrease.
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ื›ืš ืฉื”ืคื ื• ืืœื™ ืคื—ื•ืช ื•ืคื—ื•ืช ื—ื•ืœื™ื.
09:15
As my referrals began to decrease,
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ื•ื›ื›ืœ ืฉื”ืคื ื• ืืœื™ ืคื—ื•ืช ื—ื•ืœื™ื,
09:17
I clearly became increasingly depressed,
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ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืฉื ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื•ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื“ื•ื›ื,
09:21
until I thought, "My God, I can't work anymore."
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ืขื“ ืฉื—ืฉื‘ืชื™, ืืœื•ื”ื™ื, ืื™ื ื™ ืžืกื•ื’ืœ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
09:24
And, in fact, it didn't make any difference,
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ื•ืœืžืขืฉื” ื–ื” ืœื ืฉื™ื ื” ื“ื‘ืจ
09:26
because I didn't have any patients anymore.
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ื›ื™ ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ื”ื™ื• ืœื™ ื—ื•ืœื™ื.
09:28
So, with the advice of my physician,
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ืื– ื‘ืขืฆืช ืจื•ืคืื™,
09:32
I had myself admitted to the acute care psychiatric unit
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ืืฉืคื–ืชื™ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™ ื‘ื™ื—ื™ื“ื” ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ืช ืœืžืงืจื™ื ื—ืžื•ืจื™ื
09:35
of our university hospital.
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ื‘ื‘ื™ื”"ื— ื”ืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ืื™ ืฉืœื ื•. ื•ื”ืงื•ืœื’ื•ืช ืฉืœื™, ืฉื”ื›ื™ืจื• ืื•ืชื™
09:37
And my colleagues, who had known me since medical school,
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ืžื‘ื™ื”"ืก ืœืจืคื•ืื”, ืืžืจื•: "ืืœ ืชื“ืื’, ืฉืคึผ, ืชื•ืš ื—ื•ื“ืฉ ื•ื—ืฆื™
09:40
in that place, said, "Don't worry, Shep.
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09:42
Six weeks, you're back in the operating room.
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"ืชื—ื–ื•ืจ ืœื—ื“ืจ ื”ื ื™ืชื•ื—ื™ื. ื”ื›ืœ ื™ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืกื“ืจ ื’ืžื•ืจ."
09:44
Everything's going to be great."
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09:46
Well, you know what bovine stercus is?
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ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžื” ื–ื• ืฆื•ืืช ืคึผืจื™ื?
09:49
That proved to be a lot of bovine stercus.
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ื”ืชื‘ืจืจ ืฉื–ื• ื”ื™ืชื” ื”ืจื‘ื” ืฆื•ืืช ืคึผืจื™ื.
09:53
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
09:56
I know some people who got tenure in that place with lies like that.
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ืื ื™ ืžื›ื™ืจ ื›ืืœื” ืฉื–ื›ื• ืœืงื‘ืœ ืฉื ืงื‘ื™ืขื•ืช ื‘ืขื–ืจืช ืฉืงืจื™ื ื›ืืœื”.
10:01
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
10:04
(Laughter and applause)
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10:06
So I was one of their failures.
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ืื– ืื ื™ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื—ื“ ื”ื›ืฉืœื•ื ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื.
10:10
But it wasn't that simple,
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ืืš ื–ื” ืœื ื”ื™ื” ื›ืœ ื›ืš ืคืฉื•ื˜, ื›ื™ ื›ืฉืขื–ื‘ืชื™ ืืช ื”ืžื—ืœืงื”,
10:11
because by the time I got out of that unit,
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10:14
I was not functional at all.
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ื›ืœืœ ืœื ืชื™ืคืงื“ืชื™.
10:16
I could hardly see five feet in front of myself.
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ื‘ืงื•ืฉื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืจืื•ืช ืœืžืจื—ืง ืฉืœ ืžื˜ืจ ื•ื—ืฆื™,
10:19
I shuffled when I walked. I was bowed over.
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ื’ืจืจืชื™ ืจื’ืœื™ื™ื ื‘ื”ืœื™ื›ื”, ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืฉื—ื•ื—,
10:22
I rarely bathed.
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ื›ืžืขื˜ ืœื ื”ืชืจื—ืฆืชื™. ืœืขืชื™ื ืœื ื”ืชื’ืœื—ืชื™. ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื ื•ืจื.
10:24
I sometimes didn't shave.
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10:25
It was dreadful.
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10:27
And it was clear -- not to me,
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ื•ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืจื•ืจ - ืœื ืœื™,
10:30
because nothing was clear to me at that time anymore --
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ื›ื™ ืื– ื›ืœื•ื ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืœื™ ื‘ืจื•ืจ --
10:33
that I would need long-term hospitalization
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ืฉืื–ื“ืงืง ืœืืฉืคื•ื– ืžืžื•ืฉืš
10:37
in that awful place called a "mental hospital."
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ื‘ืžืงื•ื ื”ื ื•ืจื ื”ื–ื”, ื”ืงืจื•ื™ "ื‘ื™ืช-ื—ื•ืœื™ื ืœื—ื•ืœื™ ื ืคืฉ"
10:41
So I was admitted, in the spring of 1973,
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ื•ื›ืš ืื•ืฉืคื–ืชื™ ื‘ืื‘ื™ื‘ 1973,
10:47
to the Institute of Living, which used to be called the Hartford Retreat.
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ื‘"ืžื›ื•ืŸ ื”ื—ื™ื™ื" ืฉื ืงืจื ืคืขื "ื‘ื™ืช ื”ื‘ืจืื” ื”ืจื˜ืคื•ืจื“".
10:50
It was founded in the 18th century,
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ื”ื•ื ื ื•ืกื“ ื‘ืžืื” ื”-18,
10:52
the largest psychiatric hospital in the state of Connecticut,
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ื•ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื™ื”"ื— ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ื‘ืžื“ื™ื ืช ืงื•ื ื˜ื™ืงื˜,
10:56
other than the huge public hospitals that existed at that time.
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ืคืจื˜ ืœื‘ืชื™ ื”ื—ื•ืœื™ื ื”ืฆื™ื‘ื•ืจื™ื™ื ื”ืขื ืงื™ื™ื ืฉืœ ืื–.
11:01
And they tried everything they had.
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ื•ื”ื ื ื™ืกื• ืืช ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื.
11:02
They tried the usual psychotherapy.
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ื”ื ื ื™ืกื• ืคืกื™ื›ื•ืชืจืคื™ื” ืจื’ื™ืœื”.
11:04
They tried every medication available in those days.
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ื”ื ื ื™ืกื• ืืช ื›ืœ ื”ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ืฉืœ ืื•ืชื ื™ืžื™ื.
11:06
And they did have Tofranil and other things -- Mellaril, who knows what.
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"ื˜ื•ืคืจื ื™ืœ" ื•ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื ื•ืกืคื™ื, "ืžืœืจื™ืœ" ื•ืžื™ ื™ื•ื“ืข ืžื” ืขื•ื“,
11:10
Nothing happened except that I got jaundiced from one of these things.
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ืœื ืงืจื” ื›ืœื•ื, ืจืง ื—ื˜ืคืชื™ ืฆื”ื‘ืช ืžืื—ืช ืžื”ืŸ.
11:15
And finally,
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ื•ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ, ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืคื•ืจืกื ื‘ืงื•ื ื˜ื™ืงื˜,
11:17
because I was well-known in Connecticut,
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11:21
they decided they better have a meeting of the senior staff.
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ื”ื ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื• ืœื›ื ืก ืคื’ื™ืฉื” ืฉืœ ื”ืกื’ืœ ื”ื‘ื›ื™ืจ.
11:24
All the senior staff got together, and I later found out what happened.
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ื›ืœ ื”ืกื’ืœ ื”ื‘ื›ื™ืจ ื”ืชืืกืฃ, ื•ืžืื•ื—ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื ื•ื“ืข ืœื™ ืžื” ืงืจื”.
11:30
They put all their heads together,
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ื”ื ืฉื™ืœื‘ื• ื™ื—ื“ ืืช ื›ืœ ื—ื•ื›ืžืชื ื•ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื•
11:33
and they decided that there was nothing that could be done
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ืฉืœื ื ื™ืชืŸ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืžื ืชื— ื”ื–ื”,
11:36
for this surgeon who had essentially separated himself from the world,
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ืฉื‘ืขืฆื ื”ืจื—ื™ืง ืขืฆืžื• ืžื”ืขื•ืœื.
11:41
who by that time had become so overwhelmed,
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ื•ืฉื‘ืื•ืชื” ื”ืขืช ื ืขืฉื” ื›ื” ืžื•ืฆืฃ,
11:45
not just with depression and feelings of worthlessness and inadequacy,
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ืœื ืจืง ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื•ื‘ืชื—ื•ืฉื•ืช ืฉืœ ื”ื™ื•ืชื• ื—ืกืจ-ืขืจืš ื•ื—ืจื™ื’,
11:50
but with obsessional thinking,
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ืืœื ื’ื ื‘ื—ืฉื™ื‘ื” ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช,
11:52
obsessional thinking about coincidences.
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ื—ืฉื™ื‘ื” ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช ื‘ื ื•ื’ืข ืœืฆื™ืจื•ืคื™-ืžืงืจื™ื.
11:55
And there were particular numbers that every time I saw them,
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ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ ื”ื™ื• ืžืกืคืจื™ื ืžืกื•ื™ืžื™ื, ืฉืชืžื™ื“ ื›ืฉืจืื™ืชื™ ืื•ืชื
11:58
just got me dreadfully upset, all kinds of ritualistic observances ...
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ื’ืจืžื• ืœื™ ืื™-ืฉืงื˜ ื ื•ืจื. ื›ืœ ืžื™ื ื™ ื”ืชื ื”ื’ื•ื™ื•ืช ื˜ืงืกื™ื•ืช --
12:04
just awful, awful stuff.
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ื ื•ืจื. ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื ื•ืจื.
12:06
Remember when you were a kid, and you had to step on every line?
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ื–ื•ื›ืจื™ื ื‘ื™ืœื“ื•ืชื›ื, ื›ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื ืžื•ื›ืจื—ื™ื ืœื“ืจื•ืš ืขืœ ื”ืงื•ื™ื?
12:09
Well, I was a grown man who had all of these rituals,
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ืื– ืื ื™ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžื‘ื•ื’ืจ ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื• ื›ืœ ื”ื˜ืงืกื™ื ื”ืืœื”,
12:13
and it got so there was a throbbing, there was a ferocious fear in my head.
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื’ื™ืข ืœื“ืคื™ืงื•ืช-ืœื‘ ื—ื–ืงื•ืช, ืคื—ื“ ืคืจื•ืข ื‘ืชื•ืš ื”ืจืืฉ,
12:17
You've seen this painting by Edvard Munch, "The Scream."
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ืจืื™ืชื ืืช ืฆื™ื•ืจื• ืฉืœ ืื“ื•ืืจื“ ืžื•ื ืง,
"ื”ืฆืขืงื”". "ื”ืฆืขืงื”". ื›ืœ ืจื’ืข ื”ื™ื” ืฆืขืงื”.
12:21
Every moment was a scream; it was impossible.
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืœืชื™-ื ืกื‘ืœ. ื•ื”ื ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื• ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื›ืš ืžืจืคื,
12:24
So they decided there was no therapy, there was no treatment.
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12:27
But there was one treatment,
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ื•ืื™ืŸ ืœื›ืš ืฉื•ื ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ. ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื” ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ืื—ื“,
12:29
which actually had been pioneered at the Hartford Hospital
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ืฉื”ื—ืœื•ืฅ ื‘ื• ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื™"ื— ื”ืจื˜ืคื•ืจื“ ืขืฆืžื• ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-40,
12:33
in the early 1940s,
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12:35
and you can imagine what it was: it was prefrontal lobotomy.
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ื•ืืชื ื•ื“ืื™ ืžืชืืจื™ื ืœืขืฆืžื›ื ืžื”ื•: ื›ืจื™ืชืช ืื•ื ืช ื”ืžืฆื—.
12:40
(Imitates a popping sound)
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12:42
So they decided -- I didn't know this, again, I found this out later --
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ืื– ื”ื ื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื• -- ืฉื•ื‘, ืœื ื™ื“ืขืชื™ ืขืœ ื–ื”,
ื–ื” ื ื•ื“ืข ืœื™ ืžืื•ื—ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ --
12:46
that the only thing that could be done
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ืฉื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ ืฉื ื™ืชืŸ ืœืขืฉื•ืช
12:48
was for this 43-year-old man to have a prefrontal lobotomy.
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ืœืžืขืŸ ื‘ืŸ ื”-43 ื”ื–ื” ื”ื•ื ื›ืจื™ืชืช ืื•ื ืช ื”ืžืฆื—.
12:54
Well, as in all hospitals,
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ื•ื›ืžื• ื‘ื›ืœ ื‘ื™ืช ื—ื•ืœื™ื, ื”ื™ื” ืจื•ืคื ืžื”ืฆื•ื•ืช
12:56
there was a resident assigned to my case.
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ืฉื”ื•ืงืฆื” ืœืžืงืจื” ืฉืœื™. ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืŸ 27,
12:59
He was 27 years old,
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13:00
and he would meet with me two or three times a week.
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ื•ื ื”ื’ ืœื”ื™ืคื’ืฉ ืขื™ืžื™ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืื• ืฉืœื•ืฉ ื‘ืฉื‘ื•ืข.
13:03
And of course, I had been there, what, three or four months at the time.
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ื•ืื– ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืฉื ื›ื‘ืจ ืฉืœื•ืฉื”-ืืจื‘ืขื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื.
13:07
He asked to meet with the senior staff, and they agreed to meet with him,
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ื”ื•ื ื‘ื™ืงืฉ ืœื”ื™ืคื’ืฉ ืขื ื”ืกื’ืœ ื”ื‘ื›ื™ืจ ื•ื”ื ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืœืคื’ืฉื•
13:10
because he was very well thought of in that place.
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ื›ื™ ืžืื“ ื”ืขืจื™ื›ื• ืื•ืชื• ืฉื.
ื”ื ืฆืคื• ืœื• ืขืชื™ื“ ืžื–ื”ื™ืจ.
13:13
They thought he had a really extraordinary future.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ืชื—ืคืจ ื‘ืขืžื“ืชื• ื›ืฉืืžืจ,
13:16
And he dug in his heels and said,
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13:17
"No. I know this man better than any of you.
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"ืœื. ืื ื™ ืžื›ื™ืจ ืื•ืชื• ื˜ื•ื‘ ืžื›ื•ืœื›ื. ื ืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืื™ืชื• ืฉื•ื‘ ื•ืฉื•ื‘.
13:19
I have met with him over and over again.
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13:21
You've just seen him from time to time. You've read reports and so forth.
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"ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ืื•ืชื• ืจืง ืžืคืขื ืœืคืขื, ืงื•ืจืื™ื ื“ื•ื—ื•ืช ื•ื›ื•',
13:25
I really honestly believe that the basic problem here is pure depression,
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"ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ืŸ ื‘ื›ื ื•ืช ืฉื”ื‘ืขื™ื” ื”ื™ืกื•ื“ื™ืช ื”ื™ื ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื‘ืœื‘ื“,
13:29
and all of the obsessional thinking comes out of it.
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"ื•ืฉื›ืœ ื”ื—ืฉื™ื‘ื” ื”ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช ื ื•ื‘ืขืช ืžื–ื”.
13:33
And you know, of course, what'll happen if you do a prefrontal lobotomy.
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"ื•ืืชื ื”ืจื™ ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžื” ื™ืงืจื” ืื ืชื›ืจืชื• ืืช ืื•ื ืช ื”ืžืฆื—.
13:36
Any of the results along the spectrum,
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"ื”ื›ืœ ืขืœื•ืœ ืœืงืจื•ืช;
13:39
from pretty bad to terrible, terrible, terrible, is going to happen.
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"ื”ื—ืœ ืžืจืข-ืœืžื“ื™, ื•ืขื“ ืจืข ื•ืื™ื•ื ื•ื ื•ืจื.
13:43
If he does the best he can,
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"ื‘ืžืงืจื” ื”ื˜ื•ื‘ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ,
13:46
he will have no further obsessions,
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"ื”ื•ื ืœื ื™ืกื‘ื•ืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ื•ืช,
13:48
probably no depression,
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"ื•ืื•ืœื™ ื’ื ืœื ืžื“ื›ืื•ืŸ, ืืš ื”ืืคืงื˜ ืฉืœื• ื™ื™ื—ืœืฉ,
13:49
but his affect will be dulled,
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13:51
he will never go back to surgery,
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"ื”ื•ื ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ื™ืฉื•ื‘ ืœื ืชื—,
13:53
he will never be the loving father that he was to his two children,
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"ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ื™ืฉื•ื‘ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืื‘ ืื•ื”ื‘ ืœืฉื ื™ ื™ืœื“ื™ื•,
13:57
his life will be changed.
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"ื—ื™ื™ื• ื™ืฉืชื ื•.
13:58
If he has the usual result,
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"ื•ืื ืชื”ื™ื” ืœื• ื”ืชื•ืฆืื” ื”ืจื’ื™ืœื”, ื–ื” ื™ื™ื’ืžืจ ื›ืžื• ื‘'ืงืŸ ื”ืงื•ืงื™ื”',
14:00
he'll end up like 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.'
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14:03
And you know about that, just essentially in a stupor the rest of his life."
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"ื•ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืœื›ื ืžื” ื–ื” ืื•ืžืจ: ืงื”ื•ืช-ื—ื•ืฉื™ื ืขื“ ืกื•ืฃ ื™ืžื™ื•."
14:08
"Well," he said, "can't we try a course of electroshock therapy?"
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ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ืžื“ื•ืข ืฉืœื ื ื ืกื” ืกื“ืจืช ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ื‘ื”ืœื ื—ืฉืžืœื™?"
14:13
And you know why they agreed?
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ื•ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžื“ื•ืข ื”ื ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื•? ื›ื“ื™ ืœืจืฆื•ืช ืื•ืชื•.
14:14
They agreed to humor him.
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14:16
They just thought, "Well, we'll give a course of 10.
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ื”ื ืคืฉื•ื˜ ื—ืฉื‘ื•, "ื ื•, ื ื™ืชืŸ ืœื–ื” ืกื“ืจื” ืฉืœ ืขืฉืจื”.
14:21
So we'll lose a little time. Big deal. It doesn't make any difference."
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"ื ืคืกื™ื“ ืงืฆืช ื–ืžืŸ. ืื– ืžื”. ื–ื” ืœื ื™ืฉื ื” ื”ืจื‘ื”."
14:25
So they gave the course of 10,
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ืื– ื”ื ื ืชื ื• ืืช ืกื“ืจืช ืขืฉืจืช ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื,
14:26
and the first -- the usual course, incidentally, was six to eight,
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ื•ื‘ืจืืฉื•ืŸ -- ืื’ื‘, ื”ืกื“ืจื” ื”ืจื’ื™ืœื” ื”ื™ืชื” ื‘ื™ืŸ ืฉืฉื” ืœืฉืžื•ื ื”.
ื”ื™ื ืขื•ื“ื ื” ื‘ื™ืŸ ืฉืฉื” ืœืฉืžื•ื ื” ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื --
14:30
and still is six to eight --
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14:32
plugged me into the wires, put me to sleep, gave me the muscle relaxant.
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ื”ื ื—ื™ื‘ืจื• ืื•ืชื™ ืœื—ื•ื˜ื™ื, ื”ืจื“ื™ืžื• ืื•ืชื™,
ื ืชื ื• ืœื™ ืกื ื”ืจืคื™ื” ืœืฉืจื™ืจื™ื.
14:36
Six didn't work. Seven didn't work. Eight didn't work.
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ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื”ืฉื™ืฉื™ ืœื ืขื‘ื“, ื”ืฉื‘ื™ืขื™ ืœื ืขื‘ื“, ื”ืฉืžื™ื ื™ ืœื ืขื‘ื“...
14:39
At nine, I noticed --
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ื‘ืชืฉื™ืขื™ ืฉืžืชื™ ืœื‘ --
14:42
it's wonderful that I could notice anything --
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ื•ื–ื” ื ืคืœื ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ื‘ื›ืœืœ ืœืฉื™ื ืœื‘ ืœืžืฉื”ื•,
14:44
I noticed a change.
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ื”ืฉื’ื—ืชื™ ื‘ืฉื™ื ื•ื™, ื•ื‘ืขืฉื™ืจื™ ื”ืฉื’ื—ืชื™ ื‘ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ืžืžืฉื™,
14:45
And at 10, I noticed a real change.
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14:48
And he went back to them,
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ืื– ื”ื•ื ื—ื–ืจ ืืœื™ื”ื, ื•ื”ื ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืœืขื•ื“ ืขืฉืจื”.
14:49
and they agreed to do another 10.
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14:50
Again, not a single one of them --
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ืฉื•ื‘, ืื™ืฉ ืžื”ื --
14:52
I think there are about seven or eight of them --
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ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืฉื‘ืขื” ืื• ืฉืžื•ื ื” ืจื•ืคืื™ื --
ืœื ื—ืฉื‘ ืฉื–ื” ื™ืขื–ื•ืจ. ื”ื ื—ืฉื‘ื• ืฉื–ื”ื• ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ื–ืžื ื™.
14:55
thought this would do any good.
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14:56
They thought this was a temporary change.
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ืืš ื”ืคืœื ื•ืคืœื:
14:58
But, lo and behold, by 16, by 17,
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ื‘ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืžืก' 16 ื•ื‘-17 ื›ื‘ืจ ื—ืœ ืฉื™ื ื•ื™ ืžื•ื—ืฉื™ ื‘ื”ืจื’ืฉืชื™.
15:01
there were demonstrable differences in the way I felt.
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15:05
By 18 and 19, I was sleeping through the night.
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ืื—ืจื™ ืžืก' 18 ื•-19 ื™ืฉื ืชื™ ื›ืœ ื”ืœื™ืœื”.
15:08
And by 20, I had the sense, I really had the sense,
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ื•ืื—ืจื™ ืžืก' 20 ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื™ ื”ืจื’ืฉื”, ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื™ ืžืžืฉ ื”ืจื’ืฉื”,
ืฉืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืชื’ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื–ื”.
15:13
that I could overcome this,
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15:14
that I was now strong enough that by an act of will,
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ืฉื›ืขืช ืื ื™ ื—ื–ืง ืขื“ ื›ื“ื™ ื›ืš, ืฉื‘ื›ื•ื— ื”ืจืฆื•ืŸ
15:18
I could blow the obsessional thinking away.
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ืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืขื™ืฃ ืœืขื–ืื–ืœ ืืช ื”ื—ืฉื™ื‘ื” ื”ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช.
15:20
I could blow the depression away.
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ืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืขื™ืฃ ืžืขืœื™ ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
15:23
And I've never forgotten -- I never will forget --
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ื•ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ืฉื›ื—ืชื™ -- ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ืืฉื›ื— --
15:25
standing in the kitchen of the unit --
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ืืช ืขืฆืžื™, ืขื•ืžื“ ืœื‘ื“ื™ ื‘ืžื˜ื‘ื— ืฉืœ ื”ืžื—ืœืงื” --
15:29
it was a Sunday morning in January of 1974 --
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื‘ื•ืงืจ ื™ื•ื ืจืืฉื•ืŸ ื‘ื™ื ื•ืืจ 1974 --
15:33
standing in the kitchen by myself and thinking,
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ืขื•ืžื“ ืœื‘ื“ ื‘ืžื˜ื‘ื— ื•ื—ื•ืฉื‘, "ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ื™ืฉ ืœื™ ื”ื›ื•ื— ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื–ืืช."
15:35
"I've got the strength now to do this."
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15:38
It was as though those tightly coiled wires in my head had been disconnected,
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ื›ืื™ืœื• ืฉื”ืงืคื™ืฆื™ื ื”ืžื”ื•ื“ืงื™ื ืฉื‘ืจืืฉื™ ื”ืฉืชื—ืจืจื•,
15:44
and I could think clearly.
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ื•ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ื‘ื‘ื”ื™ืจื•ืช.
15:46
But I need a formula.
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ืืš ืื ื™ ื–ืงื•ืง ืœื ื•ืกื—ื”, ืœืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืื•ืชื• ืื•ืžืจ ืœืขืฆืžื™
15:48
I need some thing to say to myself
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15:51
when I begin thinking obsessionally, obsessively.
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ืœืžืงืจื” ืฉืืชื—ื™ืœ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ื‘ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ื•ืช.
15:55
Well, the Gilbert and Sullivan fans in this room
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ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ, ื—ื•ื‘ื‘ื™ ื’ื™ืœื‘ืจื˜ ื•ืกืืœื™ื‘ืŸ ื‘ืื•ืœื
16:00
will remember "Ruddigore,"
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ื–ื•ื›ืจื™ื ื•ื“ืื™ ืืช "ืจื•ื“ื™ื’ื•ืจ" ื•ืืช ืžืจื’ืจื˜ ื”ืžืฉื•ื’ืขืช,
16:02
and they will remember Mad Margaret,
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16:03
and they will remember that she was married
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ื•ืฉื”ื™ื ื ื™ืฉืื” ืœื‘ื—ื•ืจ ื‘ืฉื ืกืจ ื“ืกืคืืจื“ ืžื•ืจื’ืื˜ืจื•ื™ื“.
16:05
to a fella named Sir Despard Murgatroyd.
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16:08
And she used to go nuts every five minutes or so in the play.
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ื•ืฉื‘ืžื—ื–ื” ื”ื™ื ืžืฉืชื’ืขืช ื‘ืขืจืš ื›ืœ ื—ืžืฉ ื“ืงื•ืช,
16:12
And he said to her, "We must have a word to bring you back to reality,
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ ืœื”, "ืื ื• ื–ืงื•ืงื™ื ืœืžื™ืœื” ืฉืชื—ื–ื™ืจืš ืœืžืฆื™ืื•ืช,
16:16
and the word, my dear, will be 'Basingstoke.'"
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"ื•ื”ืžื™ืœื”, ื™ืงื™ืจืชื™, ืชื”ื™ื” 'ื‘ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื’ืกื˜ื•ืง'."
16:20
So every time she got a little nuts, he would say, "Basingstoke!"
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ืื– ื‘ื›ืœ ืคืขื ืฉื”ืฉืชื’ืขื” ืงืฆืช,
ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ื‘ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื’ืกื˜ื•ืง!" ื•ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”,
16:23
And she would say, "Basingstoke, it is!" And she'd be fine for a little while.
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"ืื›ืŸ, ื‘ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื’ืกื˜ื•ืง!" ื•ืœื–ืžืŸ-ืžื” ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ื‘ืกื“ืจ.
16:27
(Laughter)
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16:28
Well, you know, I'm from the Bronx. I can't say "Basingstoke."
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืžื”ื‘ืจื•ื ืงืก, ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื•ืžืจ "ื‘ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื’ืกื˜ื•ืง".
16:31
(Laughter)
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(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
16:32
But I had something better.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื” ืœื™ ืžืฉื”ื• ืžื•ืฆืœื— ื™ื•ืชืจ.
16:34
And it was very simple.
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ืžืฉื”ื• ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืžืื“.
16:36
It was, "Ah, fuck it!"
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื”, "ืื”, ืขืœ ื”ื–ื™ืŸ!"
(ืฆื—ื•ืง)
16:39
(Laughter)
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16:41
Much better than "Basingstoke,"
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ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ื˜ื•ื‘ ืž"ื‘ื™ื™ืกื™ื ื’ืกื˜ื•ืง".
16:43
at least for me.
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ืœืคื—ื•ืช ืขื‘ื•ืจื™. ื•ื–ื” ืขื‘ื“! ื—ื™ ืืœื•ื”ื™ื, ื–ื” ืขื‘ื“.
16:45
And it worked! My God, it worked.
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16:48
Every time I would begin thinking obsessionally --
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ื‘ื›ืœ ืคืขื ืฉื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช --
16:50
again, once more, after 20 shock treatments --
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ืฉื•ื‘, ืื—ืจื™ ืขื•ื“ 20 ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ื‘ื”ืœื ื—ืฉืžืœื™ --
16:55
I would say, "Ah, fuck it."
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื•ืžืจ, "ืื”, ืขืœ ื”ื–ื™ืŸ."
16:58
And things got better and better,
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ื•ื”ืžืฆื‘ ื”ืœืš ื•ื”ืฉืชืคืจ,
17:00
and within three or four months,
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ื•ืชื•ืš ืฉืœื•ืฉื” ืื• ืืจื‘ืขื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื,
17:03
I was discharged from that hospital.
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ืฉื•ื—ืจืจืชื™ ืžื‘ื™ืช ื”ื—ื•ืœื™ื ื•ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคืชื™ ืœืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ืžื ืชื—ื™ื
17:04
I joined a group of surgeons, where I could work with other people,
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ืฉื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืขื‘ื•ื“ ืขื ืื ืฉื™ื ื ื•ืกืคื™ื ื‘ืงื”ื™ืœื”,
17:09
in a community, not in New Haven, but fairly close by.
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ืœื ื‘ื ื™ื•-ื”ื™ื™ื‘ืŸ, ืืš ื“ื™ ืงืจื•ื‘.
17:13
I stayed there for three years.
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ืฉื”ื™ืชื™ ืฉื ืฉืœื•ืฉ ืฉื ื™ื.
17:15
At the end of three years, I went back to New Haven,
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ื‘ืชื•ื ืฉืœื•ืฉ ื”ืฉื ื™ื ื”ืืœื” ื—ื–ืจืชื™ ืœื ื™ื•-ื”ื™ื™ื‘ืŸ,
17:19
had remarried by that time.
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื›ื‘ืจ ื ืฉื•ื™ ื‘ืฉื ื™ืช.
17:23
I brought my wife with me, actually, to make sure I could get through this.
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ื‘ืขืฆื, ื”ื‘ืืชื™ ื”ื ื” ืืช ืืฉืชื™, ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื‘ื˜ื™ื— ืฉืื•ื›ืœ ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ืืช ื–ื” ื‘ืฉืœื•ื.
17:29
My children
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ื™ืœื“ื™ ื—ื–ืจื• ืœื’ื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื•.
17:32
came back
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17:34
to live with us.
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17:35
We had two more children after that.
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ื™ืœื“ื ื• ืขื•ื“ ืฉื ื™ ื™ืœื“ื™ื.
17:37
Resuscitated the career,
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ื”ืฉื‘ื ื• ืœื—ื™ื™ื ืืช ื”ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ืฉืœื™, ืืคื™ืœื• ื˜ื•ื‘ ืžื‘ืขื‘ืจ.
17:40
even better than it had been before.
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17:43
Went right back into the university
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ื—ื–ืจืชื™ ื™ืฉืจ ืœืื•ื ื™ื‘ืจืกื™ื˜ื”
17:47
and began to write books.
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ื•ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ืกืคืจื™ื.
17:50
Well, you know,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ, ืืœื• ื”ื™ื• ื—ื™ื™ื ื ืคืœืื™ื.
17:51
it's been a wonderful life.
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17:53
It's been, as I said, close to 30 years.
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ื›ืžื• ืฉืืžืจืชื™, ืงืจื•ื‘ ืœ-30 ืฉื ื”.
17:57
I stopped doing surgery about six years ago
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ืœืคื ื™ ื›ืฉืฉ ืฉื ื™ื ื”ืคืกืงืชื™ ืœื ืชื—,
18:00
and became a full-time writer, as many people know.
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ื•ื ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ืœืกื•ืคืจ ื‘ืžืฉืจื” ืžืœืื”, ื›ืคื™ ืฉืจื‘ื™ื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื.
18:04
But it's been very exciting. It's been very happy.
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ืืš ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืžืื“ ืžืจื’ืฉ, ืžืœื ืื•ืฉืจ.
18:06
Every once in a while, I have to say, "Ah, fuck it."
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ืื—ืช ืœื›ืžื” ื–ืžืŸ ืขืœื™ ืœื•ืžืจ, "ืขืœ ื”ื–ื™ืŸ."
18:09
Every once in a while, I get somewhat depressed and a little obsessional.
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ืžื™ื“ื™ ืคืขื ื‘ืคืขื ืื ื™ ื ืขืฉื” ืžื“ื•ื›ื ื•ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืขื˜.
ื›ืš ืฉืœื ื”ืฉืชื—ืจืจืชื™ ืœื’ืžืจื™ ืžื–ื”.
18:13
So, I'm not free of all of this.
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18:17
But it's worked. It's always worked.
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ืืš ื–ื” ืขื‘ื“. ื–ื” ืชืžื™ื“ ืขื‘ื“.
18:21
Why have I chosen,
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ืžื“ื•ืข, ืื—ืจื™ ืฉืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ืกื™ืคืจืชื™ ื–ืืช, ื‘ื—ืจืชื™ ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื›ืš ื›ืขืช?
18:25
after never, ever talking about this,
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18:29
to talk about it now?
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18:30
Well, those of you who know some of these books
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ืืœื” ืžื›ื ืฉืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ื›ืžื” ืžื”ืกืคืจื™ื ื”ืืœื”
18:33
know that one is about death and dying,
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ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืฉืื—ื“ ืขื•ืกืง ื‘ืžื•ื•ืช ื•ื‘ื’ืกื™ืกื”.
18:36
one is about the human body and the human spirit,
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ืื—ื“ ืขื•ืกืง ื‘ื’ื•ืฃ ื”ืื ื•ืฉื™ ื•ื‘ืจื•ื— ื”ืื ื•ืฉื™ืช,
18:38
one is about the way mystical thoughts are constantly in our minds.
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ืื—ื“ ืขื•ืกืง ื‘ื›ืš ืฉื”ืžื—ืฉื‘ื” ื”ืžื™ืกื˜ื™ืช ืชืžื™ื“ ื‘ืชื•ื“ืขืชื ื•,
18:43
And they have always to do with my own personal experiences.
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ื•ื›ื•ืœื ืชืžื™ื“ ืขื•ืกืงื™ื ื‘ื ืกื™ื•ืŸ ื”ื—ื™ื™ื ื”ืื™ืฉื™ ืฉืœื™
18:48
One might think reading these books --
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ื›ืฉืงื•ืจืื™ื ืกืคืจื™ื ืืœื” ืืคืฉืจ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ --
18:51
and I've gotten thousands of letters about them
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- ื•ืงื™ื‘ืœืชื™ ืืœืคื™ ืžื›ืชื‘ื™ื ื‘ืงืฉืจ ืืœื™ื”ื
18:53
by people who do think this --
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ืžืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ื›ืš -
18:56
that, based on my life's history as I portray it in the books,
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ืฉืขืœ ืกืžืš ื”ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” ื”ืื™ืฉื™ืช ืฉืœื™, ืฉืชื™ืืจืชื™ ื‘ืกืคืจื™,
18:59
my early life's history,
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ื”ื”ื™ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” ื”ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช ืฉืœื™, ืฉืื ื™ ืื“ื ืฉื”ืชื’ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืงื•ืฉื™,
19:01
I am someone who has overcome adversity,
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19:04
that I am someone who has drunk -- drank? -- drunk
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ืฉืื ื™ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืฉืฉืชื”
19:09
of the bitter dregs of near-disaster in childhood
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ืžืžื™-ื”ืžื“ืžื ื” ืฉืœ ื›ืžืขื˜-ืืกื•ืŸ ื‘ื™ืœื“ื•ืชื•,
19:16
and emerged not just unscathed but strengthened.
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ื•ืœื ืจืง ืฉื™ืฆื ื‘ืœื-ืคื’ืข, ืืœื ืืฃ ื”ืชื—ื–ืง.
19:21
I really have it figured out
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ืฉืื›ืŸ ืชืคืกืชื™ ืืช ื”ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ, ื•ืœื›ืŸ ืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื™ื™ืขืฅ ืœืื ืฉื™ื
19:22
so that I can advise people about death and dying,
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ื‘ื ื•ื’ืข ืœืžื•ื•ืช ื•ื’ืกื™ืกื”, ื•ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืžื™ืกื˜ื™ืงื” ื•ื”ืจื•ื— ื”ืื ื•ืฉื™ืช.
19:25
so that I can talk about mysticism
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19:27
and the human spirit.
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19:28
And I've always felt guilty about that.
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ื•ืชืžื™ื“ ื—ืฉืชื™ ืืฉืžื” ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื–ื”.
19:31
I've always felt that somehow I was an impostor,
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ืชืžื™ื“ ื—ืฉืชื™ ื›ืžืชื—ื–ื”,
19:34
because my readers don't know what I have just told you.
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉืงื•ืจืื™ ืœื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืืช ืžื” ืฉื–ื” ืขืชื” ืกื™ืคืจืชื™ ืœื›ื.
19:39
It's known by some people in New Haven, obviously,
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ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืฉื–ื” ื™ื“ื•ืข ืœื›ืžื” ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ื ื™ื•-ื”ื™ื™ื‘ืŸ,
19:41
but it is not generally known.
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ืืš ื–ื” ืื™ื ื ื• ื ื—ืœืช ื”ืจื‘ื™ื.
19:44
So one of the reasons that I have come here to talk about this today
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ื›ืš ืฉืื—ืช ื”ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ืฉื‘ืืชื™ ื”ื™ื•ื ืœื›ืืŸ ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื–ื”
19:50
is to -- frankly, selfishly --
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ื”ื™ื ืœื”ืกื™ืจ ืžืขืœื™ ื‘ื›ื ื•ืช ื•ื‘ืื ื•ื›ื™ื•ืช ืืช ื”ื ื˜ืœ ื”ื–ื”, ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื™ื™ื“ืขื•
19:53
unburden myself and let it be known
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19:57
that this is not an untroubled mind that has written all of these books.
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ืฉืœื ืžื•ื— ื—ื•ืคืฉื™ ืžืžืฆื•ืงื” ื”ื•ื ืฉื›ืชื‘ ืืช ื›ืœ ืื•ืชื ืกืคืจื™ื.
20:03
But more importantly, I think,
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ืืš ื—ืฉื•ื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืœื“ืขืชื™,
20:06
is the fact that a very significant proportion of people in this audience
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ื”ื™ื ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉืจื‘ื™ื ื›ืืŸ ื‘ืงื”ืœ
20:09
are under 30,
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ื”ื ื‘ื ื™ ืคื—ื•ืช ืž-30,
20:12
and there are many, of course, who are well over 30.
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ื•ืจื‘ื™ื, ื›ืžื•ื‘ืŸ, ืžื‘ื•ื’ืจื™ื ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืž-30.
20:17
For people under 30,
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ืœืžืขืŸ ื‘ื ื™ ื”-30 ื•ืžื˜ื”, ื•ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืฉืืœื” ื›ืžืขื˜ ื›ื•ืœื›ื -
20:19
and it looks to me like almost all of you, I would say all of you,
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- ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื•ืžืจ ืฉื›ื•ืœื›ื -
20:22
are either on the cusp of a magnificent and exciting career
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ืืชื ืื• ืขืœ ืกืฃ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ื ืคืœืื” ื•ืžืจื’ืฉืช,
20:26
or right into a magnificent and exciting career:
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ืื• ื‘ืขื™ืฆื•ืžื” ืฉืœ ืงืจื™ื™ืจื” ื ืคืœืื” ื•ืžืจื’ืฉืช;
20:31
anything can happen to you.
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ื”ื›ืœ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืงืจื•ืช ืœื›ื. ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืžืฉืชื ื™ื.
20:33
Things change.
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20:34
Accidents happen.
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ืชืื•ื ื•ืช ืงื•ืจื•ืช. ืžืฉื”ื• ืžืŸ ื”ื™ืœื“ื•ืช ื—ื•ื–ืจ ืœืจื“ื•ืฃ ืืชื›ื,
20:36
Something from childhood comes back to haunt you.
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20:39
You can be thrown off the track.
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ืืชื ืขืœื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ื™ื–ืจืง ืžื”ืคืกื™ื.
20:40
I hope it happens to none of you,
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ืื ื™ ืžืงื•ื•ื” ืฉื–ื” ืœื ื™ืงืจื” ืœืื™ืฉ ืžื›ื,
20:42
but it will probably happen to a small percentage of you.
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ื›ื ืจืื” ื™ืงืจื” ืœืื—ื“ื™ื ืžื›ื.
20:47
To those to whom it doesn't happen, there will be adversities.
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ื’ื ืœืืœื• ืฉื–ื” ืœื ื™ืงืจื” ืœื”ื, ื•ื“ืื™ ื™ื”ื™ื• ืงืฉื™ื™ื.
20:52
If I, with the bleakness of spirit -- with no spirit --
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ืื ืื ื™, ื‘ืขื’ืžื•ืžื™ื•ืช ื”ืจื•ื—,
ืœืœื ืจื•ื—, ื›ืคื™ ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืฉื ื•ืช ื”-70,
20:57
that I had in the 1970s,
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21:00
and no possibility of recovery
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ื•ืœืœื ืืคืฉืจื•ืช ืœื”ื—ืœื™ื,
21:03
as far as that group of very experienced psychiatrists thought,
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ื›ื›ืœ ืฉืกื‘ืจื” ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ื ืžื ื•ืกื™ื ืžืื“,
21:07
if I can find my way back from this,
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ืื ืื ื™ ื”ืฆืœื—ืชื™ ืœืžืฆื•ื ืืช ื“ืจื›ื™ ื‘ื—ื–ืจื” ืžืฉื,
21:10
believe me, anybody can find their way back
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ื”ืืžื™ื ื• ืœื™, ื›ื•ืœื ื™ืžืฆืื• ืืช ื“ืจื›ื ื‘ื—ื–ืจื”
21:13
from any adversity that exists in their lives.
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ืžื›ืœ ืฆืจื” ืฉืชืชืจื’ืฉ ืขืœื™ื”ื ื‘ื—ื™ื™ื.
21:17
And for those who are older,
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ื•ืœืžื‘ื•ื’ืจื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื‘ื™ื ื™ื›ื,
21:18
who have lived through perhaps not something as bad as this,
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ืฉืื•ืœื™ ืœื ืขื‘ืจื• ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืจืขื™ื ื›ืืœื”,
21:22
but who have lived through difficult times,
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ืืš ื‘ื”ื—ืœื˜ ืขื‘ืจื• ื–ืžื ื™ื ืงืฉื™ื,
21:24
perhaps where they lost everything, as I did,
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ื•ืื•ืœื™ ืื™ื‘ื“ื• ื”ื›ืœ, ื›ืžื•ื ื™, ื•ื”ื—ืœื• ืžื—ื“ืฉ,
21:27
and started out all over again:
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ื—ืœืง ืžื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื ืฉืžืขื™ื ืžื•ื›ืจื™ื ืžืื“.
21:29
some of these things will seem very familiar.
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21:34
There is recovery.
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ื™ืฉ ื”ื—ืœืžื”.
21:39
There is redemption.
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ื™ืฉ ื’ืื•ืœื”.
21:42
And there is resurrection.
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ื•ื™ืฉ ืชื—ื™ื”.
21:46
There are resurrection themes
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ื‘ื›ืœ ื—ื‘ืจื” ื™ืฉ ืžื•ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื ืฉืœ ืชื—ื™ื” ืฉื˜ืจื ื ื—ืงืจื•,
21:48
in every society that has ever been studied,
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21:51
and it is because not just only do we fantasize
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ื•ืœื ืจืง ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืฉืื ื• ืžืคื ื˜ื–ื™ื ืขืœ ืืคืฉืจื•ืช ื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื” ื•ื”ื”ื—ืœืžื”,
21:54
about the possibility of resurrection and recovery,
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21:57
but it actually happens.
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ืืœื ื›ื™ ื–ื” ื‘ืืžืช ืงื•ืจื”. ื•ื–ื” ืงื•ืจื” ื”ืจื‘ื”.
21:59
And it happens a lot.
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22:01
Perhaps the most popular resurrection theme,
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ืื•ืœื™ ืžื•ื˜ื™ื‘ ื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื” ื”ืคื•ืคื•ืœืืจื™ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืœื‘ื“ ื”ืžื•ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื ื”ื“ืชื™ื™ื,
22:05
outside of specifically religious ones,
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22:08
is the one about the phoenix, the ancient story of the phoenix,
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ื”ื•ื ืฉืœ ื”ืคื ื™ืงืก, ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ื”ืขืชื™ืง ืขืœ ื”ืคื ื™ืงืก
22:12
who, every 500 years,
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ืืฉืจ ืžื™ื“ื™ 500 ืฉื ื” ืงื ืœืชื—ื™ื™ื” ืžืืคืจื•,
22:15
resurrects itself from its own ashes
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22:18
to go on to live a life
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ื•ืฉื‘ ืœื—ื™ื•ืช ื—ื™ื™ื
22:21
that is even more beautiful than it was before.
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ืฉื”ื ืืฃ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื™ืคื™ื ืžื‘ืขื‘ืจ.
22:25
Richard, thanks very much.
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ืจื™ืฆ'ืจื“, ืชื•ื“ื” ืจื‘ื”.
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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