A scientific approach to the paranormal | Carrie Poppy

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

Eight years ago, I was haunted by an evil spirit.

Pre osam godina, proganjao me je zli duh.

I was 25 at the time,

Tada mi je bilo 25 godina

and I was living in a tiny house behind someone else's house

i živela sam u kućici iza nečije druge kuće

in Los Angeles.

u Los Anđelesu.

It was this guest house, it had kind of been dilapidated,

Bila je to gostinska kuća, koja je nekeko bila trošna,

not taken care of for a long time.

dugo nije održavana.

And one night, I was sitting there

I jedne noći sam sedela u njoj

and I got this really spooky feeling,

i imala sam taj krajnje jeziv osećaj,

kind of the feeling like you're being watched.

nalik osećaju da vas neko posmatra.

But no one was there except my two dogs,

Međutim, nikoga nije bilo tu osim moja dva psa,

and they were just chewing their feet.

a oni su prosto grickali svoja stopala.

And I looked around. No one was there.

Osvrnula sam se. Nikog nije bilo tu.

And I thought, OK, it's just my imagination.

Pa sam pomislila, u redu, to je samo moja mašta.

But the feeling just kept getting worse,

Ali osećaj je samo postajao gori

and I started to feel this pressure in my chest,

i počela sam da osećam pritisak u grudima,

sort of like the feeling when you get bad news.

nalik onom osećaju kad dobijete loše vesti.

But it started to sink lower and lower

Ali počela sam da tonem dublje i dublje

and almost hurt.

i gotovo u bolovima.

And over the course of that week, this feeling got worse and worse,

A tokom te nedelje, ovo osećanje se sve više pogoršavalo,

and I started to become convinced that something was there

te sam postala ubeđena da postoji nešto

in my little guest house, haunting me.

u mojoj gostinskoj kućici što me je proganjalo.

And I started to hear these sounds,

Te sam počela da čujem zvukove,

this "whoosh," kind of whisper, like something passing through me.

taj nekakav šapat nalik na "šuš", kao da je nešto prolazilo kroz mene.

I called my best friend, Claire, and said,

Nazvala sam moju najbolju prijateljicu Kler i rekla:

"I know this is going to sound crazy,

"Znam da će da zvuči blesavo,

but, um ...

ali, hm...

I think there's a ghost in my house, and I need to get rid of it."

mislim da imam duha u kući i moram da ga se rešim."

And she said -- she's very open-minded -- and she said,

A ona je rekla - veoma je otvorenog uma - te je rekla:

"I don't think you're crazy.

"Mislim da nisi luda.

I think you just need to do a cleansing ritual."

Mislim da ti je samo potreban ritual pročišćenja."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

"So get some sage and burn it,

"Dakle, nabavi žalfiju i spali je

and tell it to go away."

i reci mu da nestane."

So I said, "OK," and I went and I bought sage.

Pa sam rekla: "U redu", i otišla sam i kupila žalfiju.

I had never done this before, so I set the sage on fire,

Nikad ovo ranije nisam radila, pa sam zapalila žalfiju,

waved it about, and said, "Go away! This is my house! I live here.

promahala njom i rekla: "Nestani! Ovo je moja kuća! Ja živim ovde.

You don't live here!"

Ti ne živiš ovde!"

But the feeling stayed. Nothing got better.

Međutim, osećaj je ostao. Nije bilo poboljšanja.

And then I started to think,

Pa sam počela da razmišljam,

OK, well now this thing is probably just laughing at me,

u redu, ova stvar mi se verovatno samo smeje

because it hasn't left,

jer nije otišla

and I probably just look like this impotent, powerless thing

i ja verovatno izgledam poput bednog, nemoćnog bića

that couldn't get it to go away.

koje ga nije moglo najuriti.

So every day I'd come home

Dakle, svaki dan bih došla kući

and you guys, this feeling got so bad that -- I mean, I'm laughing at it now --

i, ljudi, ovo osećanje se toliko pogoršalo da - mislim, sad mi je smešno -

but I would sit there in bed and cry every night.

ali sedela bih u krevetu i plakala svake noći.

And the feeling on my chest got worse and worse.

A osećanje u grudima se sve više pogoršavalo.

It was physically painful.

Bilo je fizički bolno.

And I even went to a psychiatrist

I pošla sam kod psihijatrice

and tried to get her to prescribe me medicine,

i pokušala sam da je navedem da mi prepiše lekove,

and she wouldn't just because I don't have schizophrenia, OK.

a ona nije htela, samo zato što nemam šizofreniju, u redu.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So finally I got on the internet, and I Googled "hauntings."

Pa sam konačno pošla na internet i proguglala "proganjanja".

And I came upon this forum of ghost hunters.

I naišla sam na forum lovaca na duhove.

But these were a special kind of ghost hunters --

Ali to je bila naročita vrsta lovaca na duhove -

they were skeptics.

bili su skeptici.

They believed that every case of ghosts that they had investigated so far

Verovali su da je svaki slučaj s duhovima koji su do sad istraživali

had been explained away by science.

naučno objašnjiv.

And I was like, "OK, smart guys, this is what's happening to me,

A ja sam bila u fazonu: "U redu, pametnjakovići, evo šta mi se dešava

and if you have an explanation for me, I would love to hear it."

i ako imate objašnjenje, volela bih da ga čujem."

And one of them said, "OK.

A jedan od njih je rekao: "U redu.

Um, have you heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?"

Hm, da li si čula za trovanje ugljen-monoksidom?"

And I said, "Yeah.

A ja sam rekla: "Da.

Like, gas poisoning?"

Poput trovanja plinom?"

Carbon monoxide poisoning is when you have a gas leak

Trovanje ugljen-monoksidom se dešava kada vam curi plin

leaking into your home.

u vašem domu.

I looked it up, and the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning

Proverila sam to i simptomi trovanja ugljen-monoksidom

include a pressure on your chest,

uključuju pritisak u grudima,

auditory hallucinations -- whoosh --

zvučne halucinacije - šuš -

and an unexplained feeling of dread.

i neobjašnjivo osećanje straha.

So that night, I called the gas company.

Pa sam te noći nazvala plinsku firmu.

I said, "I have an emergency. I need you to come out.

Rekla sam: "Hitno je. Morate da dođete.

I don't want to get into the story now, but I need you to come out."

Ne želim trenutno da ulazim u priču, ali potrebno mi je da dođete.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

They came out. I said, "I suspect a gas leak."

Došli su. Rekla sam: "Sumnjam da mi curi plin."

They brought their carbon monoxide detector,

Doneli su detektor ugljen-monoksida

and the man said,

i čovek je rekao:

"It's a really good thing that you called us tonight,

"Zaista je dobro što si nas večeras pozvala

because you could have been dead very soon."

jer si mogla uskoro da budeš mrtva."

Thirty-seven percent of Americans believe in haunted houses,

U uklete kuće veruje 37 procenata Amerikanaca

and I wonder how many of them have been in one

i pitam se koliko njih je bilo u ukletoj kući,

and how many of them have been in danger.

a koliko njih je bilo u opasnosti.

So that haunting story has led me to my job.

Pa me je ta ukleta priča dovela do mog posla.

I'm an investigator, and I'm an investigator in two senses:

Ja sam istražiteljka, i istražiteljka sam na dva načina:

I'm an investigative journalist,

istraživačka sam novinarka

and I'm also an investigator of the claims of the paranormal

i takođe istražujem tvrdnje o paranormalnom

and claims of the spiritual.

i tvrdnje o spiritualnom.

And that means a few things.

A to znači nekoliko stvari.

Sometimes that means that I'm pretending to need an exorcism

Ponekad to znači da se pretvaram da mi je potreban egzorcizam

so I can get -- yes, that's right! -- so I can go to an exorcist

kako bih mogla - da, to je tačno! - kako bih mogla da pođem do egzorciste

and see if he's using gimmicks or psychological tricks

i proverim da li obmanjuje ili koristi psihološke trikove

to try to convince someone that they're possessed.

kako bi ubedio nekoga da je posednut.

Sometimes that means I'm going undercover in a fringe group

Ponekad to znači da u tajnosti prilazim marginalizovanim grupama

which I report on for a podcast that I co-host.

o čemu izveštavam u audio izveštajima čija sam kovoditeljka.

And I've done over 70 investigations like this with my co-host, Ross.

I obavila sam preko 70 istraga, poput ove sa mojim kovoditeljem Rosom.

I would love to tell you that nine times out of 10, science wins,

Volela bih da vam kažem da u devet od 10 slučajeva nauka pobeđuje,

saves the day, it's all explained.

spašava dan, sve je objašnjeno.

That's not true.

To nije tačno.

The truth is, 10 times out of 10, science wins, it saves the day.

Istina je da u 10 od 10 puta nauka pobeđuje, spašava dan.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a mystery.

A to ne znači da ne postoji nešto kao misterija.

Of course there are mysteries, but a mystery is a mystery.

Naravno da postoje misterije, ali misterija je misterija.

It is not a ghost.

Nije duh.

Now, I believe there are two kinds of truth,

Sad, verujem da postoje dve vrste istine,

and it's taken me a while to get to this place, but I think this is right,

i trebalo mi je neko vreme da to shvatim, ali mislim da je tako,

so hear me out.

zato poslušajte me.

I think there is outer truth and there's inner truth.

Mislim da postoje spoljne istine i postoje unutrašnje istine.

So if you say to me,

Pa, ako mi kažete:

"There was a man named Jesus and he once existed,"

"Bio je čovek po imenu Isus i on je nekad postojao",

that's outer truth, right?

to je spoljna istina, zar ne?

And we can go and look at the historical record.

I možemo poći i proveriti u istorijskim zapisima.

We can determine whether that seems to be true.

Možemo da odredimo da li se to čini istinitim.

And I would argue, it does seem to be true.

I rekla bih da se čini istinitim.

If you say, "Jesus rose from the dead," -- ooh, trickier.

Ako kažete: "Isus je ustao iz mrtvih" - uh, to je zeznutije.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I would say that's an outer-truth claim,

Rekla bih da je to tvrdnja o spoljnjoj istini

because he physically rose or he didn't.

jer je fizički ustao ili nije.

I'm not going to get into whether he rose or he didn't,

Neću ulaziti u to da li je ustao ili nije,

ali bih rekla da je to tvrdnja o spoljnoj istini.

but I would say that's an outer-truth claim.

It happened or it didn't happen.

Desilo se ili nije.

But if you say, "I don't care whether he rose from the dead.

Ali ako kažete: "Nije me briga da li je ustao iz mrtvih.

It's symbolically important to me,

Važno mi je simbolički

and that metaphor is so meaningful, so purposeful to me,

i ta metafora je toliko značajna, toliko smislena za mene

and I'm not going to try to persuade you of it,"

i neću pokušavati da te ubedim u nju",

now you've moved it from outer truth to inner truth,

sada ste se pomerili od spoljne ka unutrašnjoj istini,

from science to art.

od nauke do umetnosti.

And I think we have a tendency to not be clear about this,

I mislim da imamo tendenciju da ne budemo jasni povodom ovoga,

to try to move our inner truths to outer truths,

povodom pokušaja pomeranja naših unutrašnjih istina ka spolja

or to not be fair about it to each other,

ili da ne budemo međusobno pošteni po tom pitanju,

and when people are telling us their inner truths,

i kada nam ljudi govore svoje unutrašnje istine,

to try to make them defend them by outer-truth standards.

da pokušamo da ih nateramo da ih brane po standardima spoljnih istina.

So I'm talking here about outer truth, about objective things.

Dakle, ovde govorim o spoljnim istinama, o objektivnim stvarima.

And there was an objective reality in my haunted house, right?

A postojala je objektivna stvarnost u mojoj ukletoj kući, zar ne?

Now that I've told you about the gas leak,

Sad kad sam vam rekla za curenje plina,

I doubt a single person here would be like,

sumnjam da će ijedna osoba biti u fazonu:

"I still think there was a ghost, too" --

"I dalje mislim da je postojao i duh" -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

because as soon as we have these scientific explanations,

jer čim imamo naučna objašnjenja,

we know to give up the ghost.

odustajemo od duha.

We use these things as stopgaps for things that we can't explain.

Koristimo to kao privremena merila za ono što ne možemo da objasnimo.

We don't believe them because of evidence;

Ne verujemo u njih zbog dokaza;

we believe them because of a lack of evidence.

verujemo u njih zbog nedostatka dokaza.

So there is a group in Los Angeles

Dakle, postoji grupa u Los Anđelesu,

called the Independent Investigations Group, or the IIG,

nazivaju se Nezavisna istraživačka grupa ili NIG,

and they do great work.

i obavljaju sjajan posao.

They'll give a $10,000 prize

Nude nagradu od 10.000$

to anyone who can show, under scientific conditions,

svakome ko pokaže, pod naučnim okolnostima,

that they have a paranormal ability.

da ima paranormalnu sposobnost.

No one's done it yet,

Niko to nije uspeo,

but they've had a couple people who claim that they were clairaudients,

ali su imali nekoliko ljudi koji su tvrdili da imaju natprirodan sluh,

which means that they can hear voices either from the great beyond

što znači da mogu da čuju glasove bilo iz velike udaljenosti

or they can read minds.

ili mogu da čitaju misli.

And they had one person who was very sincere,

I imali su jednu osobu koja je bila veoma iskrena,

who believed that he could read minds.

koja je verovala da može da čita misli.

So they set up a test with him, and this is the way it always works.

Pa su postavili test sa njim, a ovako to uvek funkcioniše.

The group says, "OK, we have a protocol,

Grupa kaže: "U redu, imamo protokol,

we have a way to scientifically test this.

imamo način da ovo naučno testiramo.

Do you agree with it?"

Slažete li se s tim?"

Osoba kaže da. Potom ga testiraju.

The person says yes. Then they test it.

It's very important that both sides agree.

Veoma je važno da obe strane pristanu.

Uradili su to, testirali su ga.

They did that, they tested him.

They said, "OK, you know what?

Rekli su: "U redu, znate šta?

Niste bili u stanju da predvidite o čemu je Lisa razmišljala.

You weren't able to predict what Lisa was thinking.

It matched up about the same as chance.

Podudarnost je bila kao kod nagađanja.

Looks like you don't have the power."

Izgleda da nemate moći."

And that gave them the opportunity

A to im je pružilo priliku

to compassionately sit down with him and have a very difficult discussion,

da saosećajno sednu s njim i obave veoma težak razgovor,

which basically amounted to,

koji se u suštini svodio na:

"Hey, we know you're sincere, and what that means is,

"Hej, znamo da si iskren, a to znači

you do hear something in your head."

da zaista čuješ nešto u glavi."

And that guy got to make the very difficult decision,

Ali tog dana, taj momak je doneo veoma tešku odluku,

but really the life-changing decision about whether to go get help.

ali zaista odluku koja mu je promenila život, o tome da potraži pomoć.

We're actually helping people to make these connections

Zapravo pomažemo ljudima da povežu konce

that maybe before seemed like otherworldly explanations,

koji su im se ranije možda činili poput onostranih objašnjenja,

pomažu da nas dovuku u stvarnost i možda nam promene živote na bolje.

help draw us into reality and maybe change our lives for the better.

Now, on the other hand, maybe one time it'll turn out to be true.

Sad, s druge strane, možda će se jednom ispostaviti tačnim.

Maybe we'll find out there are ghosts,

Možda ćemo otkriti da postoje duhovi

and holy shit, it will be the best thing!

i, sveca mu, biće to nešto najbolje!

And every time I do one of these investigations,

I svaki put kad obavljam jedno od ovih istraživanja,

I still get so excited,

i dalje sam veoma uzbuđena

and I'm like 75 into them,

i u fazonu, 75 je iza mene,

and still I swear on number 76, I'm going to be like, "This is the one!"

i dalje vam se kunem kad stignem do 76, biću u fazonu: "To je to!"

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Maybe I'm just eternally optimistic, but I hope I never lose this hope,

Možda sam prosto večni optimista, ali se nadam da neću izgubiti ovu nadu,

and I invite you to take this same attitude

i pozivam vas da zauzmete isti stav

when people share their outer beliefs with you.

kada ljudi dele sa vama svoja ubeđenja u spoljne istine.

When talking about testable claims,

Kada govore o proverljivim tvrdnjama,

respect them enough to ask these good questions.

poštujte ih dovoljno da upitate ova dobra pitanja.

Challenge and see how you can examine them together,

Izazovite ih i proverite kako možete zajedno da ih istražite

because there's this idea that you can't respect a belief

jer postoji zamisao da ne možete da poštujete verovanje

and still challenge it, but that's not true.

i da ga i dalje dovodite u pitanje, ali to nije tačno.

When we jiggle the lock, when we test the claim,

Kada tresemo katanac, kada testiramo tvrdnju,

we're saying, OK, I respect you, I'm listening to what you're saying,

govorimo, u redu, poštujem te, slušam šta govoriš,

I'm going to test it out with you.

zajedno ćemo to testirati.

We've all had that experience where you're telling someone something,

Svi smo imali slično iskustvo, kada govorite nekome nešto,

and they're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, yeah,"

a oni su u fazonu: "Oh, to je zaista zanimljivo, da",

you know you're being had.

znate da vas drže za budalu.

But when someone says, "Really? Huh.

Ali kad neko kaže: "Zaista? Ha.

Sounds a little sketchy to me, but I'm listening,"

Zvuči mi malčice nategnuto, ali slušam",

you at least know you're being engaged and respected.

bar znate da se bave vama i da vas poštuju.

And that's the kind of attitude we should have with these claims.

A takav bismo stav trebali imati kod ovih tvrdnji.

That's showing someone that you care what they're saying.

To pokazuje nekome da marite za to što govore.

That's respect.

To je poštovanje.

Now, yes, most of these searches will come up empty,

Sad, da, većina ovih pretraga će da bude uzaludna,

but that's how all of science works.

ali tako nauka funkcioniše.

Every cure for cancer so far has not panned out,

Svaki lek za rak se do sad nije isplatio,

but we don't stop looking,

ali ne prestajemo da tražimo

for two reasons.

iz dva razloga.

Because number one, the answer matters.

Zato što, pod jedan: odgovor je važan.

Whether it's looking at the afterlife or the paranormal or the cure for cancer,

Bilo da proveravamo zagrobni život ili paranormalno ili lek za rak,

it all amounts to the same question:

sve se svodi na isto pitanje:

How long will we be here?

koliko dugo ćemo da budemo ovde?

And two, because looking for the truth,

I, pod dva: zato što traganje za istinom,

being open-minded,

stanje otovrenog uma

and being willing to be wrong and to change your whole worldview

i spremnost da ne budemo u pravu i da u potpunosti promenimo pogled na svet

is awe-inspiring.

izazivaju strahopoštovanje.

I still get excited at ghost stories every single time.

I dalje se svaki put uzbudim zbog priče o duhovima.

I still consider that every group I join might be right,

I dalje smatram da svaka grupa kojoj se pridružim možda jeste u pravu

and I hope I never lose that hope.

i nadam se da neću izgubiti tu nadu.

Let's all never lose that hope,

Hajde da svi zadržimo tu nadu

because searching for what's out there

jer traganje za onim što postoji napolju

helps us understand what's in here.

pomaže nam da razumemo ono što je unutra.

And also, please have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.

I takođe, molim vas, držite detektor ugljen-monoksida u vašem domu.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)