A scientific approach to the paranormal | Carrie Poppy

Prevoditelj: Irma Komljenović Recezent: Tilen Pigac - EFZG

Eight years ago, I was haunted by an evil spirit.

Prije osam godina, opsjedao me zao duh.

I was 25 at the time,

Tada sam imala 25 godina

and I was living in a tiny house behind someone else's house

i živjela sam u malenoj kući iza nečije kuće

in Los Angeles.

u Los Angelesu.

It was this guest house, it had kind of been dilapidated,

Bila je to gostinjska kuća, prilično trošna,

not taken care of for a long time.

dugo nije bila zbrinuta.

And one night, I was sitting there

Jedne sam noći sjedila

and I got this really spooky feeling,

i osjetila sam neki jeziv osjećaj,

kind of the feeling like you're being watched.

kao da me netko gleda.

But no one was there except my two dogs,

No nije bilo nikoga osim moja dva psa,

and they were just chewing their feet.

a oni su samo grizli svoje noge.

And I looked around. No one was there.

Pogledala sam oko sebe. Nije bilo nikoga.

And I thought, OK, it's just my imagination.

Mislila sam: OK, to je samo moja mašta.

But the feeling just kept getting worse,

No osjećaj se samo pogoršavao,

and I started to feel this pressure in my chest,

i počela sam osjećati nekakav pritisak u prsima,

sort of like the feeling when you get bad news.

poput osjećaja koji dobiješ kad čuješ loše vijesti.

But it started to sink lower and lower

No počeo se sve više spuštati

and almost hurt.

i skoro boljeti.

And over the course of that week, this feeling got worse and worse,

Kroz taj tjedan, osjećaj se samo pogoršavao,

and I started to become convinced that something was there

pa sam postala uvjerena da je nešto tamo

in my little guest house, haunting me.

u mojoj malenoj gostinjskoj kući, da me opsjeda.

And I started to hear these sounds,

Počela sam čuti zvukove,

this "whoosh," kind of whisper, like something passing through me.

nekakav "whoosh", poput šapta, kao da nešto prolazi kroz mene.

I called my best friend, Claire, and said,

Nazvala sam svoju najbolju prijateljicu, Claire, i rekla,

"I know this is going to sound crazy,

"Znam da će ovo zvučati ludo,

but, um ...

no, hm ...

I think there's a ghost in my house, and I need to get rid of it."

mislim da je duh u mojoj kući, i moram ga se riješiti."

And she said -- she's very open-minded -- and she said,

A ona je rekla -- ima vrlo otvoren um -- i reče,

"Ne mislim da si luda.

"I don't think you're crazy.

I think you just need to do a cleansing ritual."

Mislim da bi trebala napraviti ritual pročišćenja."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

"So get some sage and burn it,

"Nabavi kadulju, zapali ju,

and tell it to go away."

i reci duhu da ode."

So I said, "OK," and I went and I bought sage.

Rekla sam, "OK," pa otišla i kupila kadulju.

I had never done this before, so I set the sage on fire,

Nikad to prije nisam radila, pa sam zapalila kadulju,

waved it about, and said, "Go away! This is my house! I live here.

mahala njome i rekla, "Odlazi! Ovo je moja kuća! Ja tu živim.

You don't live here!"

Ti tu ne živiš!"

But the feeling stayed. Nothing got better.

No osjećaj je ostao. Ništa se nije poboljšalo.

And then I started to think,

Onda sam pomislila,

OK, well now this thing is probably just laughing at me,

OK, sad mi se ova stvar vjerojatno samo smije

because it hasn't left,

jer nije otišao,

and I probably just look like this impotent, powerless thing

a ja samo izgledam kao nesposobno, nemoćno biće

that couldn't get it to go away.

koje ga nije moglo otjerati.

So every day I'd come home

Svaki dan bih došla kući i,

and you guys, this feeling got so bad that -- I mean, I'm laughing at it now --

taj bi osjećaj bio tako loš -- sad se tome smijem --

but I would sit there in bed and cry every night.

no sjedila bih ondje u krevetu i svake noći plakala.

And the feeling on my chest got worse and worse.

A osjećaj u mojim prsima samo se pogoršavao.

It was physically painful.

Bilo je fizički bolno.

And I even went to a psychiatrist

Čak sam otišla psihijatru

and tried to get her to prescribe me medicine,

i pitala ju da mi napiše recept za lijek,

and she wouldn't just because I don't have schizophrenia, OK.

a ona je rekla da neće samo jer nemam šizofreniju, OK.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So finally I got on the internet, and I Googled "hauntings."

Napokon sam otišla na internet i potražila na Googlu "opsjedanja."

And I came upon this forum of ghost hunters.

Naišla sam na forum lovaca na duhove.

But these were a special kind of ghost hunters --

No bili su posebna vrsta lovaca na duhove --

they were skeptics.

bili su skeptici.

They believed that every case of ghosts that they had investigated so far

Vjerovali su da je svaki slučaj koji su do tad istraživali

had been explained away by science.

mogao biti objašnjen znanošću.

And I was like, "OK, smart guys, this is what's happening to me,

Pa sam rekla, "OK, pametni ljudi, ovo mi se događa,

and if you have an explanation for me, I would love to hear it."

ako imate nekakvo objašnjenje, voljela bih ga čuti."

And one of them said, "OK.

I jedan od njih reče, "OK.

Um, have you heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?"

Hm, jesi li čula za trovanje ugljikovim monoksidom?"

And I said, "Yeah.

I rekoh, "Da.

Like, gas poisoning?"

Nešto kao trovanje plinom?"

Carbon monoxide poisoning is when you have a gas leak

Do trovanja ugljikovim monoksidom dođe

leaking into your home.

kad plin curi u tvom domu.

I looked it up, and the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning

Malo sam istraživala, i simptomi trovanja ugljikovim monoksidom

include a pressure on your chest,

uključuju pritisak u prsima,

auditory hallucinations -- whoosh --

zvučne halucinacije -- whoosh --

and an unexplained feeling of dread.

i neobjašnjeni osjećaj straha.

So that night, I called the gas company.

Te noći nazvala sam tvrtku za plin.

I said, "I have an emergency. I need you to come out.

Rekoh, "Imam hitan slučaj. Mislim da trebate doći.

I don't want to get into the story now, but I need you to come out."

Ne želim sad objašnjavati priču, no stvarno trebate doći."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

They came out. I said, "I suspect a gas leak."

Došli su. Rekoh, "Vjerujem da postoji curenje plina."

They brought their carbon monoxide detector,

Donijeli su svoj detektor ugljikova monoksida,

and the man said,

i čovjek reče,

"It's a really good thing that you called us tonight,

"Stvarno je dobro da ste nas večeras pozvali,

because you could have been dead very soon."

jer biste u suprotnom ubrzo bili mrtvi."

Thirty-seven percent of Americans believe in haunted houses,

37% Amerikanaca vjeruje da žive u ukletim kućama,

and I wonder how many of them have been in one

i pitam se koji stvarno žive u jednoj,

and how many of them have been in danger.

a koji su u opasnosti.

So that haunting story has led me to my job.

Ta priča o opsjedanju dovela me do mog posla.

I'm an investigator, and I'm an investigator in two senses:

Istražiteljica sam, i to u dva smisla:

I'm an investigative journalist,

Istražiteljska sam novinarka,

and I'm also an investigator of the claims of the paranormal

no također sam i istražitelj paranormalnog

and claims of the spiritual.

i duhovnog.

And that means a few things.

A to znači par stvari.

Sometimes that means that I'm pretending to need an exorcism

Nekad se pravim da mi treba egzorcizam

so I can get -- yes, that's right! -- so I can go to an exorcist

da mogu -- da, tako je! -- da mogu otići egzorcistu

and see if he's using gimmicks or psychological tricks

i vidjeti koristi li iluzije ili psihološke trikove

to try to convince someone that they're possessed.

kako bi nekog uvjerio da je opsjednut.

Sometimes that means I'm going undercover in a fringe group

Nekad to znači da se pravim kako sam dio marginalne grupe

which I report on for a podcast that I co-host.

o čemu onda izvještavam za podcast na kojem sam jedna od voditeljica.

And I've done over 70 investigations like this with my co-host, Ross.

Napravila sam više od 70 takvih istraga s drugim voditeljem, Rossom.

I would love to tell you that nine times out of 10, science wins,

Voljela bih vam reći da znanost pobjeđuje 9 puta od 10,

saves the day, it's all explained.

spašava dan, sve objašnjava.

That's not true.

To nije istina.

The truth is, 10 times out of 10, science wins, it saves the day.

Istina je da znanost pobjeđuje, spašava dan, u svih 10 slučajeva.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

And that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a mystery.

To ne znači da misteriji ne postoje.

Of course there are mysteries, but a mystery is a mystery.

Naravno da postoje, no misterij je misterij.

It is not a ghost.

Nije duh.

Now, I believe there are two kinds of truth,

Vjerujem da postoje dvije vrste istine,

and it's taken me a while to get to this place, but I think this is right,

i trebalo mi je vremena da do ovdje dođem, no mislim da je ispravno,

so hear me out.

pa me poslušajte.

I think there is outer truth and there's inner truth.

Mislim da postoji vanjska istina i unutarnja istina.

So if you say to me,

Ako mi kažeš,

"Isus je nekoć postojao,"

"There was a man named Jesus and he once existed,"

that's outer truth, right?

to je vanjska istina, zar ne?

And we can go and look at the historical record.

Možemo pregledati povijesne zapise.

We can determine whether that seems to be true.

Možemo odrediti čini li se to istinitim.

And I would argue, it does seem to be true.

Ja bih rekla, čini se istinitim.

If you say, "Jesus rose from the dead," -- ooh, trickier.

Ako kažeš, "Isus je iskrsnuo iz mrtvih," -- ooh, još teže.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I would say that's an outer-truth claim,

Rekla bih da je to tvrdnja vanjske istine,

because he physically rose or he didn't.

jer je ili fizički uskrsnuo, ili nije.

I'm not going to get into whether he rose or he didn't,

Neću ulaziti u to je li ili nije uskrsnuo,

but I would say that's an outer-truth claim.

no rekla bih da je to tvrdnja vanjske istine.

It happened or it didn't happen.

Ili se dogodilo, ili nije.

But if you say, "I don't care whether he rose from the dead.

No ako kažeš, "Nije me briga je li uskrsnuo.

It's symbolically important to me,

Simbolički mi je važno,

and that metaphor is so meaningful, so purposeful to me,

ta mi je metafora tako značajna, tako bitna

and I'm not going to try to persuade you of it,"

da te neću ni probati uvjeravati u suprotno,"

now you've moved it from outer truth to inner truth,

sad si se pomaknuo iz vanjske istine u unutarnju,

from science to art.

iz znanosti u umjetnost.

And I think we have a tendency to not be clear about this,

Često imamo sklonost ne razlikovati ih,

to try to move our inner truths to outer truths,

pokušavamo pomaknuti svoje unutarnje u vanjske istine,

or to not be fair about it to each other,

ili nismo iskreni prema drugima,

and when people are telling us their inner truths,

pa, kad nam drugi govore svoje unutarnje istine,

to try to make them defend them by outer-truth standards.

tražimo da ih brane standardima za vanjske istine.

So I'm talking here about outer truth, about objective things.

Govorim o vanjskoj istini, o objektivnim stvarima.

And there was an objective reality in my haunted house, right?

Postoji objektivna stvarnost u mojoj ukletoj kući, zar ne?

Now that I've told you about the gas leak,

Kad sam vam rekla o curenju plina,

I doubt a single person here would be like,

sumnjam da netko još uvijek govori,

"I still think there was a ghost, too" --

"Još uvijek mislim da se radi o duhu" --

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

because as soon as we have these scientific explanations,

jer čim imamo ova znanstvena objašnjenja,

we know to give up the ghost.

znamo da trebamo otpisati duha.

We use these things as stopgaps for things that we can't explain.

Sve to koristimo kao privremena sredstva za ono što ne možemo objasniti.

We don't believe them because of evidence;

Ne vjerujemo u njih zbog dokaza;

we believe them because of a lack of evidence.

vjerujemo u njih zbog manjka dokaza.

So there is a group in Los Angeles

Postoji jedna skupina u Los Angelesu,

called the Independent Investigations Group, or the IIG,

Neovisna Istraživačka Grupa, ili NIG,

and they do great work.

i čine odlične stvari.

They'll give a $10,000 prize

Dat će nagradu od 10,000 dolara

to anyone who can show, under scientific conditions,

onom tko može dokazati, pod znanstvenim uvjetima,

that they have a paranormal ability.

da imaju paranormalnu sposobnost.

No one's done it yet,

Nitko još nije uspio,

but they've had a couple people who claim that they were clairaudients,

no bilo je nekoliko ljudi koji tvrde da imaju nadsluh,

which means that they can hear voices either from the great beyond

što znači da čuju glasove iz zagrobnog života

or they can read minds.

ili da mogu čitati misli.

And they had one person who was very sincere,

Imali su jednu jako iskrenu osobu

who believed that he could read minds.

koja je vjerovala da može čitati misli.

So they set up a test with him, and this is the way it always works.

Dogovorili su test s njim i uvijek funkcionira ovako.

The group says, "OK, we have a protocol,

Grupa kaže, "OK, imamo protokol,

we have a way to scientifically test this.

testirat ćemo ovo na znanstveni način.

Do you agree with it?"

Slažeš li se s tim?"

The person says yes. Then they test it.

Osoba pristane. Onda ju testiraju.

It's very important that both sides agree.

Vrlo je bitno da se obje strane slože.

Napravili su to, testirali su ga.

They did that, they tested him.

They said, "OK, you know what?

Rekli su, "OK, znaš što?

Nisi mogao predvidjeti o čemu Lisa razmišlja.

You weren't able to predict what Lisa was thinking.

It matched up about the same as chance.

Podudaralo se s vjerojatnošću.

Looks like you don't have the power."

Izgleda da nemaš moć."

And that gave them the opportunity

To im je, ipak, dalo priliku

to compassionately sit down with him and have a very difficult discussion,

da sjednu i imaju težak razgovor s njim,

which basically amounted to,

koji je, otprilike, bio ovakav,

"Hey, we know you're sincere, and what that means is,

"Hej, znamo da si iskren, što znači

you do hear something in your head."

da stvarno čuješ nešto u glavi."

And that guy got to make the very difficult decision,

Taj je čovjek morao donijeti tešku,

but really the life-changing decision about whether to go get help.

ali transformativnu odluku o potražnji pomoći.

We're actually helping people to make these connections

Pomažemo ljudima u povezivanju onog

that maybe before seemed like otherworldly explanations,

za što su mislili da postoje nadzemaljska objašnjenja.

pomažemo dovesti se u stvarnost, a možda i promijeniti svoje živote nabolje.

help draw us into reality and maybe change our lives for the better.

Now, on the other hand, maybe one time it'll turn out to be true.

S druge strane, možda će jednom biti istina.

Maybe we'll find out there are ghosts,

Možda ćemo otkriti da duhovi postoje,

and holy shit, it will be the best thing!

i dovraga, bit će tako dobro!

And every time I do one of these investigations,

Svaki put kad imam novu istragu,

I still get so excited,

tako sam uzbuđena,

and I'm like 75 into them,

čak i ako sam ih već imala 75,

and still I swear on number 76, I'm going to be like, "This is the one!"

vjerujem u 76., mislim, "To je ona prava!"

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Maybe I'm just eternally optimistic, but I hope I never lose this hope,

Možda sam trajno optimistična, no nadam se da nikad neću izgubiti nadu,

and I invite you to take this same attitude

i pozivam vas da preuzmete isti stav

when people share their outer beliefs with you.

kad ljudi dijele svoja vanjska vjerovanja s vama.

When talking about testable claims,

Kad govore o tvrdnjama koje je moguće provjeriti,

respect them enough to ask these good questions.

poštuj ih dovoljno da postaviš dobra pitanja.

Challenge and see how you can examine them together,

Izazovi i vidi kako to možete zajednički ispitati,

because there's this idea that you can't respect a belief

jer postoji ta ideja da ne možeš poštovati vjerovanje

and still challenge it, but that's not true.

i istovremeno ga propitkivati, ali to nije istina.

When we jiggle the lock, when we test the claim,

Kad nešto probamo, kad ispitujemo tvrdnju,

we're saying, OK, I respect you, I'm listening to what you're saying,

time kažemo, OK, poštujem te, slušam što govoriš,

I'm going to test it out with you.

ispitati ću to s tobom.

We've all had that experience where you're telling someone something,

Svi smo doživjeli da nekome nešto govorimo

a da oni reagiraju s, "O, to je stvarno zanimljivo, da,"

and they're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, yeah,"

you know you're being had.

znaš da te varaju.

Ali kad netko kaže, "Stvarno? Hm.

But when someone says, "Really? Huh.

Sounds a little sketchy to me, but I'm listening,"

Zvuči nedovršeno, ali slušam te,"

you at least know you're being engaged and respected.

bar znaš da te uključuju i poštuju.

And that's the kind of attitude we should have with these claims.

Takav stav trebamo imati prema ovim tvrdnjama.

That's showing someone that you care what they're saying.

To pokazuje nekome da mariš za ono o čemu govore.

That's respect.

To je poštovanje.

Now, yes, most of these searches will come up empty,

I da, većina će potraga biti neuspješna,

but that's how all of science works.

no znanost je takva.

Every cure for cancer so far has not panned out,

Nijedan dosadašnji lijek za rak nije uspio,

but we don't stop looking,

no ne prestajemo tražiti

for two reasons.

zbog dva razloga.

Prvi je: odgovor je važan.

Because number one, the answer matters.

Whether it's looking at the afterlife or the paranormal or the cure for cancer,

Tražimo li zagrobni život, paranormalno ili lijek za rak,

it all amounts to the same question:

sve dolazi do istog pitanja:

How long will we be here?

Koliko ćemo biti tu?

And two, because looking for the truth,

I drugi, jer tražiti istinu,

being open-minded,

biti otvorena uma,

and being willing to be wrong and to change your whole worldview

i biti spreman biti u krivu i promijeniti cijeli svoj svjetonazor,

is awe-inspiring.

izaziva nadahnuće.

I still get excited at ghost stories every single time.

Još uvijek sam uzbuđena kad čujem priče o duhovima.

I still consider that every group I join might be right,

Još uvijek smatram da svaka grupa kojoj se pridružim može biti u pravu,

and I hope I never lose that hope.

i nadam se da nikad neću izgubiti tu nadu.

Let's all never lose that hope,

Nemojmo nikad izgubiti nadu,

because searching for what's out there

jer tražiti nešto vani

helps us understand what's in here.

pomaže nam shvatiti što je unutra.

And also, please have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.

I, molim vas, imajte detektor ugljikova monoksida doma.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)