A scientific approach to the paranormal | Carrie Poppy

譯者: Jessie Lee 審譯者: Wilde Luo

Eight years ago, I was haunted by an evil spirit.

八年前，我曾被惡靈糾纏。

I was 25 at the time,

當時我 25 歲，

and I was living in a tiny house behind someone else's house

住在別人房子後面的一個小房子裡，

in Los Angeles.

在洛杉磯。

It was this guest house, it had kind of been dilapidated,

就是這一間殘破不堪的客房，

not taken care of for a long time.

已經很長時間不曾被打理。

And one night, I was sitting there

一天晚上，我坐在那裡，

and I got this really spooky feeling,

突然有一股毛骨悚然的感覺。

kind of the feeling like you're being watched.

就好比有人在某處觀察你。

But no one was there except my two dogs,

但是除了我的兩隻狗以外， 沒有人在周圍，

and they were just chewing their feet.

而且牠們當時在舔舐自己的腳。

And I looked around. No one was there.

我四處張望了一下，沒有任何人。

And I thought, OK, it's just my imagination.

於是我想，好吧，這只是我的幻想。

But the feeling just kept getting worse,

但是那種感覺越來越強烈，

and I started to feel this pressure in my chest,

我開始感覺到胸部的壓迫感，

sort of like the feeling when you get bad news.

就像是你聽到壞消息的感覺。

But it started to sink lower and lower

那種壓迫感漸漸遍佈全身，

and almost hurt.

幾乎有種受傷的感覺，

And over the course of that week, this feeling got worse and worse,

在那一週裡，這種感覺不斷惡化，

and I started to become convinced that something was there

於是我開始確信有「東西」在那裡，

in my little guest house, haunting me.

在我的小客房裡面，纏著我。

And I started to hear these sounds,

我開始聽到一些聲音，

this "whoosh," kind of whisper, like something passing through me.

像是某種東西穿過我，嘶嘶低語。

I called my best friend, Claire, and said,

我打電話給最要好的朋友克萊爾，說：

"I know this is going to sound crazy,

「我知道這聽起來很不可思議。

but, um ...

但是，嗯......

I think there's a ghost in my house, and I need to get rid of it."

我覺得我家鬧鬼了，需要處理掉它。」

And she said -- she's very open-minded -- and she said,

她的思想開明，回答說：

"I don't think you're crazy.

「我不覺得你瘋了。

I think you just need to do a cleansing ritual."

我覺得你只需要個驅邪的儀式。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"So get some sage and burn it,

「去買一些鼠尾草來燒，

and tell it to go away."

叫它滾開。」

So I said, "OK," and I went and I bought sage.

於是我說：「好的。」 然後我去買了一些鼠尾草。

I had never done this before, so I set the sage on fire,

我未曾這樣做過，點燃了鼠尾草，

waved it about, and said, "Go away! This is my house! I live here.

並四處揮舞著說：「快滾開！

這是我的家！我住在這裡。 你不住這裡！」

You don't live here!"

But the feeling stayed. Nothing got better.

但是那種詭異的感覺仍在， 事情並沒好轉。

And then I started to think,

於是我開始思考，

OK, well now this thing is probably just laughing at me,

好吧，也許這東西現在正在嘲笑我，

because it hasn't left,

因為它並沒有離去，

and I probably just look like this impotent, powerless thing

而且我無能為力、失去力氣，

that couldn't get it to go away.

無法叫它離開。

So every day I'd come home

所以每天我回到家，

and you guys, this feeling got so bad that -- I mean, I'm laughing at it now --

你們知道嗎？這感覺真的很糟──

意思是，雖然我現在能笑著說這件事，

but I would sit there in bed and cry every night.

但我當時卻是每晚都坐在床上哭。

And the feeling on my chest got worse and worse.

我胸口感覺越來越糟。

It was physically painful.

這是一種身體上的痛苦。

And I even went to a psychiatrist

我甚至去看了心理醫生，

and tried to get her to prescribe me medicine,

試著說服她開藥給我，

and she wouldn't just because I don't have schizophrenia, OK.

她當然不會開藥給我， 因為我沒精神病。

啊，好吧。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So finally I got on the internet, and I Googled "hauntings."

最後，我上網搜尋「鬧鬼」。

And I came upon this forum of ghost hunters.

然後我找到了一個集結了驅魔師的論壇。

But these were a special kind of ghost hunters --

但是有這麼一類特別的驅魔師──

they were skeptics.

他們是懷疑論者。

They believed that every case of ghosts that they had investigated so far

他們相信目前為止他們所 調查的所有與鬼相關的案件中，

had been explained away by science.

都可以被科學解釋。

And I was like, "OK, smart guys, this is what's happening to me,

我說：「好吧，聰明的人們， 這是發生在我身上的事情。

and if you have an explanation for me, I would love to hear it."

如果你們能解釋，我會很樂意聆聽。」

And one of them said, "OK.

他們其中一人說：

Um, have you heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?"

「好。你聽過一氧化碳中毒嗎？」

And I said, "Yeah.

我說：「嗯，有啊。」

Like, gas poisoning?"

「像是瓦斯中毒？」

Carbon monoxide poisoning is when you have a gas leak

一氧化碳中毒是瓦斯外洩到你的家中，

leaking into your home.

I looked it up, and the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning

我查閱一氧化碳中毒的症狀，包括：

include a pressure on your chest,

胸口感受到壓力，

auditory hallucinations -- whoosh --

耳朵幻聽嘶嘶的聲音，

and an unexplained feeling of dread.

還有無法解釋的恐懼感。

So that night, I called the gas company.

所以那個晚上我打電話給瓦斯公司。

I said, "I have an emergency. I need you to come out.

我說：「事態緊急， 我需要你們馬上出現！」

I don't want to get into the story now, but I need you to come out."

「我現在不想解釋什麽， 但我需要你們馬上出現。」

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

They came out. I said, "I suspect a gas leak."

他們出現後，我說： 「我懷疑我家瓦斯外洩。」

They brought their carbon monoxide detector,

他們拿出一氧化碳偵測器，然後說：

and the man said,

"It's a really good thing that you called us tonight,

「你今晚打電話給我們真是做對了， 要不然你很快就會死了。」

because you could have been dead very soon."

Thirty-seven percent of Americans believe in haunted houses,

37% 的美國人相信凶宅，

and I wonder how many of them have been in one

而我懷疑他們之中 有多少人真的住過凶宅，

and how many of them have been in danger.

又有多少人真的遭遇過危險。

So that haunting story has led me to my job.

這個關於惡靈的故事 讓我從事了我的工作。

I'm an investigator, and I'm an investigator in two senses:

我是個調查員， 調查的內容涉及兩塊：

I'm an investigative journalist,

我是一個調查記者，

and I'm also an investigator of the claims of the paranormal

同時我也研究那些 「超自然現象」和「靈魂」的宣稱。

and claims of the spiritual.

And that means a few things.

這代表了一些事情，

Sometimes that means that I'm pretending to need an exorcism

有時候這代表 我必須假裝有驅魔的需求，

so I can get -- yes, that's right! -- so I can go to an exorcist

然後我可以找個……對，就是這樣， 我可以去找一個驅魔師，

and see if he's using gimmicks or psychological tricks

然後觀察他是不是 在耍花招或玩心理遊戲，

to try to convince someone that they're possessed.

來使別人相信他們真的中邪了。

Sometimes that means I'm going undercover in a fringe group

這也代表著身為和別人合作的播客，

which I report on for a podcast that I co-host.

有時候我得偷偷混進 我做報告的邊緣團體。

And I've done over 70 investigations like this with my co-host, Ross.

我和我的夥伴蘿絲也已經 做了超過 70 次像這樣的調查。

I would love to tell you that nine times out of 10, science wins,

我很想告訴你 十次有九次是科學勝出，

saves the day, it's all explained.

科學救了大家，解釋了這一切。

That's not true.

但情況不是這樣。

The truth is, 10 times out of 10, science wins, it saves the day.

事實上十次中有十次 科學贏了，救了大家。

(Applause)

(掌聲)

And that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a mystery.

但這並不代表謎團不存在。

Of course there are mysteries, but a mystery is a mystery.

當然還是有謎團，

但謎團就是謎團，

It is not a ghost.

並不是鬼。

Now, I believe there are two kinds of truth,

我認為有兩種真相，

and it's taken me a while to get to this place, but I think this is right,

花了一些時間我才想通，

我認為應該就是這樣，

so hear me out.

所以請耐心聽我說。

I think there is outer truth and there's inner truth.

我認為有「外在真相」和「內在真相」。

So if you say to me,

如果你告訴我：

"There was a man named Jesus and he once existed,"

「曾經有個名叫耶穌的人。」

that's outer truth, right?

這是外在真相，對吧？

And we can go and look at the historical record.

我們查看歷史紀錄

We can determine whether that seems to be true.

就可判斷是否屬實。

And I would argue, it does seem to be true.

而我會說，的確看似是個事實。

If you say, "Jesus rose from the dead," -- ooh, trickier.

如果你說：「耶穌從死裡復生。」

噢，那就有點棘手了。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

I would say that's an outer-truth claim,

我會說那是個外在真相的主張，

because he physically rose or he didn't.

要不祂復活了，要不祂沒復活。

I'm not going to get into whether he rose or he didn't,

我並不是要探討祂到底復活了沒有。

but I would say that's an outer-truth claim.

而是說：這是個外在真相的主張，

It happened or it didn't happen.

不論祂到底復活了沒有。

But if you say, "I don't care whether he rose from the dead.

但是，如果你說的是： 「我不管祂是不是從死裡復活，

It's symbolically important to me,

這象徵對我很重要，

and that metaphor is so meaningful, so purposeful to me,

這隱喻非常有意義、意味很深遠，

and I'm not going to try to persuade you of it,"

而我也沒想要說服你。」

now you've moved it from outer truth to inner truth,

你就已經轉外在真相為內在真相，

from science to art.

轉科學為藝術。

And I think we have a tendency to not be clear about this,

我認為我們傾向於模糊兩者間的界線，

to try to move our inner truths to outer truths,

傾向於把內在真相變成外在真相，

or to not be fair about it to each other,

或者，傾向於不平等地看待兩者，

and when people are telling us their inner truths,

以致當人們告訴我們他們的內在真相時，

to try to make them defend them by outer-truth standards.

我們會試著叫他們用外在真相的準則 來為自己的內在真相辯護。

So I'm talking here about outer truth, about objective things.

我在此討論的是外在真相， 是客觀的事物。

And there was an objective reality in my haunted house, right?

我的鬼屋有客觀的現實，對吧？

Now that I've told you about the gas leak,

我已經說過是瓦斯外洩了，

I doubt a single person here would be like,

在座應該不會有人說： 「我仍然認為那裡頭有鬼。」

"I still think there was a ghost, too" --

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

because as soon as we have these scientific explanations,

因為一旦我們有了科學的解釋，

we know to give up the ghost.

就知道該放棄這些「鬼話」了。

We use these things as stopgaps for things that we can't explain.

我們用這些想法來暫時解決 我們所無法解釋的事情，

We don't believe them because of evidence;

有了事實證據，我們不再相信「鬼話」；

we believe them because of a lack of evidence.

只因為缺少證據才相信它。

So there is a group in Los Angeles

在洛杉磯有個團體，

called the Independent Investigations Group, or the IIG,

叫做獨立調查組織，英文簡稱 IIG，

and they do great work.

他們做了很棒的工作。

They'll give a $10,000 prize

他們提供一萬元美金的獎賞，

to anyone who can show, under scientific conditions,

給任何可以在科學佐證下，

that they have a paranormal ability.

展現他們超自然能力的人。

No one's done it yet,

目前為止還沒有人獲得奬金，

but they've had a couple people who claim that they were clairaudients,

但他們遇到過幾個 聲稱自己有順風耳的人，

which means that they can hear voices either from the great beyond

也就是說，他們能聽到 來自極遠之處的聲音，

or they can read minds.

或是能讀心。

And they had one person who was very sincere,

他們有個很誠實、 相信自己能讀心的人。

who believed that he could read minds.

So they set up a test with him, and this is the way it always works.

他們安排測試他，

事情的發展總是下面這樣。

The group says, "OK, we have a protocol,

這團體說：「好！ 我們有份科學實驗計劃，

we have a way to scientifically test this.

可以用科學方法驗證你的能力。

Do you agree with it?"

你同意嗎？」

The person says yes. Then they test it.

那個人說好，然後他們開始測試。

It's very important that both sides agree.

雙方都同意是非常重要的。

They did that, they tested him.

同意了，他們開始測試他。

They said, "OK, you know what?

他們說：「好，你知道嗎？

You weren't able to predict what Lisa was thinking.

你未能預測麗莎在想什麼。

It matched up about the same as chance.

這只是偶然的吻合。

Looks like you don't have the power."

似乎你並沒有超能力。」

And that gave them the opportunity

這賦予他們一個機會，

to compassionately sit down with him and have a very difficult discussion,

懷抱著同理心，和他坐下來， 進行艱難的討論。

which basically amounted to,

基本上等同於，

"Hey, we know you're sincere, and what that means is,

「嘿！我們知道你的真誠，

意思是，

you do hear something in your head."

你的確在自己的腦海裡 聽到了一些聲音。」

And that guy got to make the very difficult decision,

那個人需要做個艱難的決定，

but really the life-changing decision about whether to go get help.

會改變命運的決定，

決定是否要尋求協助。

We're actually helping people to make these connections

事實上我們是在幫助人們 將一些事情連起來，

that maybe before seemed like otherworldly explanations,

將一些以前會用 「有另一個世界」來解釋的事

拉回到現實層面，

help draw us into reality and maybe change our lives for the better.

而這或許可以讓我們的生活更美好。

Now, on the other hand, maybe one time it'll turn out to be true.

另一方面，

或許哪天鬼會變成事實。

Maybe we'll find out there are ghosts,

或許我們會發現這世上真的有鬼。

and holy shit, it will be the best thing!

真糟糕！這將會是最棒的事情！

And every time I do one of these investigations,

每當我進行有關這方面的調查時，

I still get so excited,

我還是會非常興奮，

and I'm like 75 into them,

就算經歷過 75 件這樣的事，

and still I swear on number 76, I'm going to be like, "This is the one!"

但我發誓，在碰到第 76 件 這樣的事情時，

我會說：「肯定就是它了！」

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Maybe I'm just eternally optimistic, but I hope I never lose this hope,

或許我只是個永遠樂觀的人，

但願我永不放棄這樣的希望，

and I invite you to take this same attitude

我鼓勵你也抱着同樣的態度。

when people share their outer beliefs with you.

在別人和你分享他們的外在信念時。

When talking about testable claims,

當談及可以被驗證的說法時，

respect them enough to ask these good questions.

尊重他們，提出好的問題，

Challenge and see how you can examine them together,

質疑，並一起看看 你們如何能共同驗證它。

because there's this idea that you can't respect a belief

有這麼一個說法，認為

「不能質疑你所尊重的信念」，

and still challenge it, but that's not true.

這是不對的。

When we jiggle the lock, when we test the claim,

當我們轉動鎖、檢視那些主張時，

we're saying, OK, I respect you, I'm listening to what you're saying,

我們會說：「好，我尊重你，我聽你說，

I'm going to test it out with you.

我將會和你一起驗證。」

We've all had that experience where you're telling someone something,

我們都有這樣的經驗， 當你在告訴某人某些事情時，

他們會說：「喔，真有趣，對耶。」

and they're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, yeah,"

you know you're being had.

你就知道你被耍了。

But when someone says, "Really? Huh.

但當他們說：「真的嗎？嗯？」

Sounds a little sketchy to me, but I'm listening,"

「這聽起來有點陌生，不過我正在聽。」

you at least know you're being engaged and respected.

至少你知道， 你正與他交流並且受到尊重。

And that's the kind of attitude we should have with these claims.

面對他人的看法， 這就是我們應該表現的態度。

That's showing someone that you care what they're saying.

表現出你重視別人在說什麼。

That's respect.

這是尊重。

Now, yes, most of these searches will come up empty,

沒錯，多數的調查都沒什麼結果，

but that's how all of science works.

但所有的科學運作就是如此。

Every cure for cancer so far has not panned out,

到目前為止，尚未淘汰 每一種癌症的治療法，

but we don't stop looking,

但我們並沒有停止追尋。

for two reasons.

這有兩個原因。

Because number one, the answer matters.

第一，答案很重要。

Whether it's looking at the afterlife or the paranormal or the cure for cancer,

不管我們探索的是死後的生命、 超自然現象，或癌症的治法，

it all amounts to the same question:

全都指向一個共同的問題：

How long will we be here?

我們有多少時間？

And two, because looking for the truth,

第二，因為探尋事實，

being open-minded,

敞開心胸，

and being willing to be wrong and to change your whole worldview

樂於犯錯，且願意改變你的世界觀，

is awe-inspiring.

是令人振奮的。

I still get excited at ghost stories every single time.

每次聽到有關鬼的故事 我還是非常興奮。

I still consider that every group I join might be right,

我依舊認為每個我加入的陣營 有可能是客觀、正確的，

and I hope I never lose that hope.

而我也希望從不失去希望。

Let's all never lose that hope,

我們都別失去希望，

because searching for what's out there

因為找尋外在的真相

helps us understand what's in here.

會幫助我們更了解內在的真相。

And also, please have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.

除此之外，請大家在家裡 安置一氧化碳檢探測器。

Thank you.

（笑聲）

謝謝大家。

(Applause)

（掌聲）