A scientific approach to the paranormal | Carrie Poppy

839,390 views ใƒป 2017-03-27

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Sang Wook Lee ๊ฒ€ํ† : Jihyeon J. Kim
00:12
Eight years ago, I was haunted by an evil spirit.
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8๋…„ ์ „, ์ €๋Š” ๊ท€์‹ ์— ํ™€๋ ธ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:20
I was 25 at the time,
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์ œ ๋‚˜์ด 25์‚ด๋•Œ ์˜€์–ด์š”.
00:22
and I was living in a tiny house behind someone else's house
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๋กœ์Šค์•ค์ ค๋ ˆ์Šค์˜ ์–ด๋Š ์ด์›ƒ์ง‘ ๋’ค ์กฐ๊ทธ๋งŒํ•œ ์ง‘์—์„œ ์‚ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์ฃ .
00:26
in Los Angeles.
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00:28
It was this guest house, it had kind of been dilapidated,
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๊ทธ ์ง‘์€ ๊ฒŒ์ŠคํŠธ ํ•˜์šฐ์Šค์˜€๊ณ , ๋‹ค ํ—ˆ๋ฌผ์–ด์ง„๋ฐ๋‹ค
00:31
not taken care of for a long time.
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์˜ค๋žซ๋™์•ˆ ๋ฐฉ์น˜๋œ ์ง‘ ๊ฐ™์•˜์–ด์š”.
00:34
And one night, I was sitting there
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์–ด๋Š๋‚  ๋ฐค, ์ง‘์— ํ˜ผ์ž ์•‰์•„ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
00:37
and I got this really spooky feeling,
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์•ฝ๊ฐ„ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„์ด ์œผ์Šค์Šคํ•ด์ง€๋”๋ผ๊ณ ์š”.
00:42
kind of the feeling like you're being watched.
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๋งˆ์น˜ ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์ ˆ ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๋Š๋‚Œ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ• ๊นŒ...
00:45
But no one was there except my two dogs,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์ œ๊ฐ€ ํ‚ค์šฐ๋Š” ๋‘ ๊ฐ•์•„์ง€์™ธ์—” ์•„๋ฌด๋„ ์—†์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
00:48
and they were just chewing their feet.
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๊ฐ•์•„์ง€๋“ค์€ ๋ฐœ๋งŒ ๊นจ๋ฌผ๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์ฃ .
00:51
And I looked around. No one was there.
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์ฃผ์œ„๋ฅผ ๋‘˜๋Ÿฌ๋ดค์ง€๋งŒ, ์•„๋ฌด๋„ ์—†์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
00:54
And I thought, OK, it's just my imagination.
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"์•„๋‹ˆ์•ผ, ๋‹จ์ˆœํžˆ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„ํƒ“์ผ๊ฑฐ์•ผ." ํ•˜๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐํ–ˆ์ฃ .
00:59
But the feeling just kept getting worse,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„์ด ๋‚˜์•„์ง€๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹จ
01:01
and I started to feel this pressure in my chest,
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์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ๊ฐ€์Šด์ด ๊ฐ‘๊ฐ‘ํ•ด์ง€๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:07
sort of like the feeling when you get bad news.
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์•ˆ ์ข‹์€ ์†Œ์‹์„ ๋“ค์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฐ์ •์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ• ๊นŒ์š”.
01:10
But it started to sink lower and lower
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๊ณ„์† ๊ฐ€์Šด์ด ๊ฐ‘๊ฐ‘ํ•ด์ง€๋‹ˆ๊นŒ
01:13
and almost hurt.
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์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ์•„ํ”ˆ๋“ฏํ•œ ๋Š๋‚Œ์„ ๋ฐ›์•˜์–ด์š”.
01:15
And over the course of that week, this feeling got worse and worse,
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๋‹ต๋‹ตํ•œ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„์€ ์ผ์ฃผ์ผ๊ฐ„ ๊ณ„์† ๋๊ณ  ์‹ฌํ•ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:19
and I started to become convinced that something was there
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ „ " ๋‚˜๋ฅผ ๊ดด๋กญํžˆ๋Š” ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ด ์ง‘์— ์žˆ๊ตฌ๋‚˜" ๋ผ๊ณ 
01:25
in my little guest house, haunting me.
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ํ™•์‹ ์ด ๋“ค๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
01:29
And I started to hear these sounds,
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๊ฒŒ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ์ด์   ํ™˜์ฒญ๊นŒ์ง€ ๋“ค๋ฆฌ๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ๋‹ต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:32
this "whoosh," kind of whisper, like something passing through me.
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"ํœ˜์ต ์‰ฌ์ด" ํ•˜๋Š”, ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ ˆ ํ†ต๊ณผํ•ด๊ฐ€๋Š” ์†Œ๋ฆฌ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ์ด์š”.
01:40
I called my best friend, Claire, and said,
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์ €๋Š” ์นœํ•œ ์นœ๊ตฌ ํด๋ ˆ์–ดํ•œํ…Œ ์ „ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•ด์„œ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ–ˆ์ฃ .
01:45
"I know this is going to sound crazy,
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ํด๋ ˆ์–ด, "์ข€ ๋ฏธ์นœ ์†Œ๋ฆฌ ๊ฐ™๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
01:48
but, um ...
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๊ทผ๋ฐ, ์Œ....
01:50
I think there's a ghost in my house, and I need to get rid of it."
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์ง‘์— ์œ ๋ น์ด ์‚ฌ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ ๊ฐ™์•„. ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ซ“์•„๋‚ด์ง€?"
01:55
And she said -- she's very open-minded -- and she said,
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์นœ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•˜๊ธธ, ์ฐธ๊ณ ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ์—ด๋ฆฐ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ์นœ๊ตฌ๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:00
"I don't think you're crazy.
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"๋„ค๊ฐ€ ๋ฏธ์นœ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์ง„ ์•Š๊ณ 
02:01
I think you just need to do a cleansing ritual."
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ "์ •ํ™”์˜์‹" ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฑฐ ํ•˜๋ฉด ๋ ๊ฑฐ ๊ฐ™์€๋ฐ...
02:05
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
02:07
"So get some sage and burn it,
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"์„ธ์ด์ง€ ํ—ˆ๋ธŒ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ–๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ํƒœ์›Œ๋ฒ„๋ ค.
02:12
and tell it to go away."
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์œ ๋ น์•„ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ด๋ด.
02:15
So I said, "OK," and I went and I bought sage.
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"์•Œ์•˜์–ด" ํ•˜๊ณ , ์ „ํ™” ํ†ตํ™” ํ›„ ์ €๋Š” ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์„ธ์ด์ง€๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ”์ฃ .
02:18
I had never done this before, so I set the sage on fire,
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์ฒ˜์Œ์ด์—ˆ์ง€๋งŒ, ์„ธ์ด์ง€์— ๋ถˆ์„ ๋ถ™์ด๊ณ 
02:23
waved it about, and said, "Go away! This is my house! I live here.
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ํ•œ๋“คํ•œ๋“ค ๋‚ ์•„๊ฐ€๋Š” ์„ธ์ด์ง€๋ฅผ ํ–ฅํ•ด ์ €๋Š” "๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€๋ผ!" "์—ฌ๊ธด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์ง‘์ด๋ผ๊ณ !"
02:29
You don't live here!"
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๋‚ด๊ฐ€ ์ฃผ์ธ์ด๋ผ๊ณ ! ๋„Œ ๋‚˜๊ฐ€์ค˜!
02:32
But the feeling stayed. Nothing got better.
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ํŽธ์•ˆํ•œ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„์€ ์˜ค๋ž˜๊ฐ€์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๊ณ , ์˜ˆ์ „๊ณผ ๋ณ„๋ฐ˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅผ๊ฒŒ ์—†์—ˆ์ฃ .
02:35
And then I started to think,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ๋‹ค์‹œ ๊ณ ๋ฏผํ•˜๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:37
OK, well now this thing is probably just laughing at me,
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์ด๊ฒŒ ์•„๋งˆ ์ €๋ฅผ ๋น„์›ƒ๊ณ  ์žˆ์„ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
02:40
because it hasn't left,
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์•„์ง ๋‚˜๊ฐ€์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
02:43
and I probably just look like this impotent, powerless thing
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๊ทธ ๋‹น์‹œ์—” ์ œ ์ž์‹ ์ด ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ํž˜์—†๋Š”
02:46
that couldn't get it to go away.
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์ธ๊ฐ„์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•ด ๋ณด์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:48
So every day I'd come home
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๋งค์ผ ์ง‘์— ๋“ค์–ด ์˜ฌ ๋•Œ๋งˆ๋‹ค
02:52
and you guys, this feeling got so bad that -- I mean, I'm laughing at it now --
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„, ๊ทธ ๊ธฐ๋ถ„์€ ์ •๋ง ๋ง๋กœ ์„ค๋ช…์ด ์•ˆ๋˜๋ฉฐ ๋‹คํ–‰ํžˆ ์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ์›ƒ์ง€๋งŒ
02:58
but I would sit there in bed and cry every night.
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์ž ์ž๋ฆฌ์— ์•‰์•„, ๋งค์ผ๋ฐค ์šธ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:02
And the feeling on my chest got worse and worse.
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๊ฐ€์Šด์„ ๋ˆ„๋ฅธ ๋“ฏํ•œ ๊ฐ‘๊ฐ‘ํ•œ ๋Š๋‚Œ์€ ๋”์šฑ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ๊ฐˆ์ˆ˜๋ก ์‹ฌํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ 
03:08
It was physically painful.
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์œก์ฒด์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งค์šฐ ํž˜๋“ค์—ˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:11
And I even went to a psychiatrist
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์ €๋Š” ์ •์‹ ๊ณผ ์ƒ๋‹ด๋„ ๋ฐ›์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:14
and tried to get her to prescribe me medicine,
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์ „๋ฌธ์˜๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์ฒ˜๋ฐฉ์ „์„ ์ฃผ๋ ค ํ–ˆ์ง€๋งŒ
03:18
and she wouldn't just because I don't have schizophrenia, OK.
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์ „๋ฌธ์˜๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ "์ •์‹  ๋ถ„์—ด์ฆ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋„ค์š”", ์ „ "๋„ค ์•Œ๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”" ์ด๋žฌ์ฃ .
03:22
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
03:25
So finally I got on the internet, and I Googled "hauntings."
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์ €๋Š” ์ธํ„ฐ๋„ท์œผ๋กœ "์œ ๋ น์ถœ๋ชฐ" ์„ ๊ฒ€์ƒ‰ํ•ด๋ดค์ฃ .
03:32
And I came upon this forum of ghost hunters.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  "ํ‡ด๋งˆ์‚ฌ์˜ ํ† ๋ก ํšŒ"๊ฐ€ ๋ˆˆ์— ๋“ค์–ด์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:35
But these were a special kind of ghost hunters --
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ํŠน๋ณ„ํ•œ ํ‡ด๋งˆ์‚ฌ๋“ค์˜ ๋ชจ์ž„์ด์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
03:38
they were skeptics.
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ํšŒ์˜๋ก ์ž๋“ค์ด์—ˆ์ฃ .
03:39
They believed that every case of ghosts that they had investigated so far
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์ด๋“ค์€ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€ ์ ‘ํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์œ ๋ น์˜ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด๋“ค์€
03:45
had been explained away by science.
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๊ณผํ•™์œผ๋กœ ์„ค๋ช… ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
03:47
And I was like, "OK, smart guys, this is what's happening to me,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” "๊ทธ๋ž˜์š”?" ๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ์ €ํ•œํ…Œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ผ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ...
03:51
and if you have an explanation for me, I would love to hear it."
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์„ค๋ช… ์ข€ ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”? ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ์•Œ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์–ด์„œ ๊ทธ๋ž˜์š”.
03:55
And one of them said, "OK.
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๊ทธ ๋ชจ์ž„์˜ ์–ด๋Š ๋ถ„์ด ๋‹ต๋ณ€ํ•ด์ฃผ๊ฒ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋”๋ผ๊ณ ์š”.
03:58
Um, have you heard of carbon monoxide poisoning?"
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์Œ.. ํ˜น์‹œ ์ผ์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ์ค‘๋…์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋“ค์–ด๋ณด์…จ๋‚˜์š”?
04:04
And I said, "Yeah.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” "๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ " ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
04:09
Like, gas poisoning?"
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๊ฐ€์Šค ์ค‘๋… ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ ์•„๋‹Œ๊ฐ€์š”?
04:12
Carbon monoxide poisoning is when you have a gas leak
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์ผ์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ์ค‘๋…์€ ์ง‘์•ˆ์— ๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ˆ„์ถœ์ด ๋์„ ๋•Œ
04:15
leaking into your home.
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๋ฐœ์ƒํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
04:17
I looked it up, and the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning
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๊ฒ€์ƒ‰ํ•ด ๋ณด๋‹ˆ๊นŒ, ์ผ์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ์ค‘๋…์œผ๋กœ ์ธํ•œ ์ฆ์ƒ์œผ๋ก 
04:22
include a pressure on your chest,
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๊ฐ€์Šด ์••๋ฐ•๊ณผ
04:26
auditory hallucinations -- whoosh --
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ํ™˜์ฒญ, ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด ํœ˜์ต ์‰ฌ์ต ๊ฐ™์€
04:30
and an unexplained feeling of dread.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๋ถˆ์•ˆ์„ ํ˜ธ์†Œํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋„ค์š”.
04:35
So that night, I called the gas company.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ „ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๋‚  ๋ฐค ๋„์‹œ๊ฐ€์Šค ํšŒ์‚ฌ์— ์ „ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
04:38
I said, "I have an emergency. I need you to come out.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” "์‘๊ธ‰์ƒํ™ฉ์ด๋‹ˆ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์ง‘์— ๋ฐฉ๋ฌธํ•ด๋‹ฌ๋ผ๊ณ " ๋ง์„ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:41
I don't want to get into the story now, but I need you to come out."
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"์ง€๊ธˆ ๊ธด ์–˜๊ธฐ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ์ด๋‹ˆ๊นŒ, ๋นจ๋ฆฌ ์˜ค์„ธ์š”"
04:45
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
04:46
They came out. I said, "I suspect a gas leak."
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์ €๋Š” ๊ฒ€์‚ฌ๋‚˜์˜จ ๊ฐ€์ŠคํšŒ์‚ฌ ์ง์›๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ฐ€์Šค์œ ์ถœ์ด ์˜์‹ฌ๋œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:49
They brought their carbon monoxide detector,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ฐ€์Šค๊ฒ€์ถœ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์™”๊ณ , ๊ฒ€์‚ฌ ํ›„
04:51
and the man said,
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๊ทธ์ค‘์— ํ•œ ๋‚จ์„ฑ๋ถ„์ด ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์‹œ๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
04:53
"It's a really good thing that you called us tonight,
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์˜ค๋Š˜๋ฐค์— ์ „ํ™”ํ•ด์„œ ์ฒœ๋งŒ๋‹คํ–‰์ด๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:57
because you could have been dead very soon."
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์œผ๋ฉด ๊ณง ์ฃฝ์—ˆ์„ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
05:01
Thirty-seven percent of Americans believe in haunted houses,
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ธ์˜ 37%๋Š” ์‹ค์ œ ์œ ๋ น์˜ ์ง‘์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:06
and I wonder how many of them have been in one
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ์ค‘์— ์ •๋ง ์œ ๋ น์˜ ์ง‘์ด ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
05:11
and how many of them have been in danger.
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๋˜ ์–ผ๋งˆ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ณณ๋“ค์ด ์œ„ํ—˜์— ์ง๋ฉดํ•ด ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ๊ถ๊ธˆํ•ด์ง€๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
05:16
So that haunting story has led me to my job.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์ €์˜ ์ง์—…์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:21
I'm an investigator, and I'm an investigator in two senses:
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์ €์˜ ์ง์—…์€ ์กฐ์‚ฌ๊ด€์ด๋ฉฐ ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์„ฑ๊ฒฉ์„ ๋ ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:24
I'm an investigative journalist,
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์ €๋Š” ํƒ์‚ฌ ์–ธ๋ก ์ธ์ด๋ฉฐ
05:25
and I'm also an investigator of the claims of the paranormal
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๋”๋ถˆ์–ด ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์˜์ ์ธ ํ˜„์ƒ์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋‹ค๋‹ˆ๋Š”
05:29
and claims of the spiritual.
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์ „๋ฌธ ์กฐ์‚ฌ๊ด€ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:31
And that means a few things.
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๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:32
Sometimes that means that I'm pretending to need an exorcism
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๋•Œ๋•Œ๋กœ ์ €๋Š” ์•…๋ น์ซ“๋Š” ์˜์‹(์‚ดํ’€์ด)์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ํ–‰๋™์„ ํ•˜๋ฉฐ
05:36
so I can get -- yes, that's right! -- so I can go to an exorcist
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์ €๋Š”.... ๋„ค! ๊ทธ๋ ‡์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ํ‡ด๋งˆ์‚ฌ๋“ค์„ ์ฐพ์•„ ๋‹ค๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:41
and see if he's using gimmicks or psychological tricks
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€์—๊ฒŒ ์•…๋ น ์ซ“๋Š” ์˜์‹์ด ๊ผญ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ์†์—ฌ
05:44
to try to convince someone that they're possessed.
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์ˆ ์ฑ…์ด๋“ , ์‹ฌ๋ฆฌ์  ๋ฌ˜์ˆ˜์ธ์ง€ ๋“ฑ์„ ์žก์•„๋‚ด๋Š” ์ง์—…์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
05:47
Sometimes that means I'm going undercover in a fringe group
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๊ฐ€๋”์€ ๋น„์ฃผ๋ฅ˜ํŒŒ์— ์†ํ•ด์„œ ์œ„์žฅ ์ž ๋ณต์„ ํ•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:51
which I report on for a podcast that I co-host.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๊ณต๋™ ์ง„ํ–‰์œผ๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ํŒŸ์บ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ๋ณด๋„ํ˜•ํƒœ๋กœ ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:54
And I've done over 70 investigations like this with my co-host, Ross.
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๊ณต๋™ ์ง„ํ–‰์ž์ธ, ๋กœ์Šค์™€ 70๊ฑด์ด ๋„˜๋Š” ์กฐ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€๋ฅผ ํ•ด์™”๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
05:59
I would love to tell you that nine times out of 10, science wins,
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€๊ฑด, 10๊ฑด์ค‘ 9๊ฑด์€
06:04
saves the day, it's all explained.
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๊ณผํ•™์œผ๋กœ ์ฆ๋ช…์ด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:07
That's not true.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์‚ฌ์‹ค์€....
06:08
The truth is, 10 times out of 10, science wins, it saves the day.
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10๊ฑด ๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ณผํ•™์œผ๋กœ ์ฆ๋ช…์ด ๋œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:14
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
06:26
And that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a mystery.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์ด ์—†๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:29
Of course there are mysteries, but a mystery is a mystery.
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๋ฌผ๋ก  ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์€ ์žˆ์ง€๋งŒ, ๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ผ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:33
It is not a ghost.
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์œ ๋ น์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ž€๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
06:36
Now, I believe there are two kinds of truth,
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ํ˜„์žฌ, ์ €๋Š” ๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ธก๋ฉด์˜ ์ง„์‹ค์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ด…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:39
and it's taken me a while to get to this place, but I think this is right,
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์–ด๋– ํ•œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์— ๋„๋‹ฌ์„ ํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”. ๋‚˜๋ฆ„ ํ˜„๋ช…ํ•œ ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:44
so hear me out.
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ํ•œ๋ฒˆ ๋“ค์–ด๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
06:45
I think there is outer truth and there's inner truth.
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๊ทธ๊ฑด ๋ฐ”๋กœ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค๊ณผ ๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:48
So if you say to me,
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด
06:52
"There was a man named Jesus and he once existed,"
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์˜ˆ์ˆ˜๋ผ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ ์กด์žฌํ–ˆ๋‹ค.
06:54
that's outer truth, right?
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์ด๊ฑด ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์ด์ฃ .
06:56
And we can go and look at the historical record.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์—ญ์‚ฌ์  ๊ธฐ๋ก๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด
06:58
We can determine whether that seems to be true.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค์ธ์ง€ ์•„๋‹Œ์ง€, ์šฐ๋ฆฐ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:01
And I would argue, it does seem to be true.
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ธ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:03
If you say, "Jesus rose from the dead," -- ooh, trickier.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ, ์˜ˆ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€ ์ฃฝ์€ ์ž๋ฅผ ์‚ด๋ฆฌ์…จ๋‹ค. ์ข€ ๋‚œํ•ดํ•˜๋„ค...
07:09
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
07:12
I would say that's an outer-truth claim,
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์ด ๋ถ€๋ถ„๋„ ์ €๋Š” ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค ๊ฐ™์€๋ฐ์š”.
07:19
because he physically rose or he didn't.
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์˜ˆ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€ ๋ถ€ํ™œ์„ ํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€ ์•ˆํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜์žˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
07:21
I'm not going to get into whether he rose or he didn't,
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๋ถ€ํ™œ์„ ํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€ ์•ˆํ–ˆ๋Š”์ง€๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ ์š”.
07:24
but I would say that's an outer-truth claim.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด ์งˆ๋ฌธ์€ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:26
It happened or it didn't happen.
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์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ๋“ , ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋“  ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
07:27
But if you say, "I don't care whether he rose from the dead.
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๋งŒ์ผ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด "์˜ˆ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€ ์ฃฝ์€ ์ž๋ฅผ ์‚ด๋ ธ๋Š”์ง€ ์•„๋‹Œ์ง€๋Š” ์ค‘์š”์น˜ ์•Š์•„.
07:31
It's symbolically important to me,
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์ค‘์š”ํ•œ๊ฑด, ์˜ˆ์ˆ˜ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€ ์ƒ์ง•์ ์ธ๊ฒƒ ๋ฟ์ด์•ผ.
07:33
and that metaphor is so meaningful, so purposeful to me,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋น„์œ ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ๋„ ์˜๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด ํ˜น์€ ๋ชฉ์ ์˜์‹์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ ํ•ด.
07:37
and I'm not going to try to persuade you of it,"
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ๋ง‰์—ฐํžˆ ์ดํ•ด์‹œํ‚ค๊ณ  ์‹ถ์ง„ ์•Š์•„" ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹ ๋‹ค๋ฉด
07:39
now you've moved it from outer truth to inner truth,
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋Š” ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์—์„œ ๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค๋กœ ์ด๋™ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:42
from science to art.
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๊ณผํ•™์—์„œ ์˜ˆ์ˆ ๋กœ ์˜ฎ๊ฒจ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:43
And I think we have a tendency to not be clear about this,
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์ €์˜ ํŒ๋‹จ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ๋ช…ํ™•ํžˆ ๊ตฌ๋ถ„์ง“์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์ด ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
07:47
to try to move our inner truths to outer truths,
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๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์—์„œ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค๋กœ ๋„˜์–ด๊ฐ€๋Š”
07:50
or to not be fair about it to each other,
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ํ˜น์€ ์„œ๋กœ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ์ถฉ๋œ ์˜๊ฒฌ์„ ๋ณด์ด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
07:53
and when people are telling us their inner truths,
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์„ ๋งํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
07:55
to try to make them defend them by outer-truth standards.
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๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์˜ ๊ธฐ์ค€์œผ๋กœ ๊ทธ ๋ถ€๋ถ„๋“ค์„ ๋ฐ˜๋ฐ•ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
07:59
So I'm talking here about outer truth, about objective things.
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์ €๋Š” ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๊ฐ๊ด€์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋งํ• ๊นŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:03
And there was an objective reality in my haunted house, right?
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์ €์˜ ์œ ๋ น์˜ ์ง‘์€ ๋ถ„๋ช… ๊ฐ๊ด€์ ์ธ ํ˜„์‹ค์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:08
Now that I've told you about the gas leak,
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๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ˆ„์ถœ์ด์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ง์”€ ๋“œ๋ ธ๋Š”๋ฐ
08:10
I doubt a single person here would be like,
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๋ถ„๋ช… ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ค‘์— ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์€ ๊ผญ ํ•œ ๋ช…์”ฉ์€ ์žˆ์ฃ ?
08:12
"I still think there was a ghost, too" --
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๋‚œ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์œ ๋ น์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐ๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ....
08:14
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
08:15
because as soon as we have these scientific explanations,
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๊ณผํ•™์ ์ธ ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ๋‹ค๊ฐ€๊ฐ€์ž
08:18
we know to give up the ghost.
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์œ ๋ น์˜ ํ–‰๋™์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ž€ ๊ฑธ ์•Œ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:20
We use these things as stopgaps for things that we can't explain.
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์„ค๋ช…ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์œผ๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ฌด์กฐ๊ฑด ์œ ๋ น์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:24
We don't believe them because of evidence;
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์ฆ๊ฑฐ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๊ธฐ์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ฏฟ์ง€ ์•Š๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
08:26
we believe them because of a lack of evidence.
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์ฆ๊ฑฐ๊ฐ€ ์ถฉ๋ถ„์น˜ ์•Š๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฐ๊ด€์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:30
So there is a group in Los Angeles
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๋กœ์Šค์•ค์ ค๋ ˆ์Šค์— ํ•œ ๋ชจ์ž„์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
08:32
called the Independent Investigations Group, or the IIG,
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์ด๋ฅธ๋ฐ” "์ž์œ  ์—ฐ๊ตฌ ๋ชจ์ž„", ์•ฝ์ž๋กœ "IIG"๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ถ€๋ฅด๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
08:36
and they do great work.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋Œ€๋‹จํ•œ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:38
They'll give a $10,000 prize
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๋ฉด
08:41
to anyone who can show, under scientific conditions,
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์ƒ๊ธˆ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ์ˆ˜์—ฌํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
08:45
that they have a paranormal ability.
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๋‹จ, ๊ณผํ•™์ ์ธ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์—์„œ ๊ทธ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ค˜์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:47
No one's done it yet,
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์•„์ง์€ ์•„๋ฌด๋„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:49
but they've had a couple people who claim that they were clairaudients,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ๋ช‡๋ช‡๋ถ„์ค‘์—” ์ดˆ์ธ์ ์ธ ์ฒญ๋ ฅ์„ ๊ฐ€์กŒ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:54
which means that they can hear voices either from the great beyond
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๊ฐ€๋ น ์‚ฌํ›„์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ๋ชฉ์†Œ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
08:58
or they can read minds.
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ํ˜น์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์˜ ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ์ฝ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ž๋„ ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:00
And they had one person who was very sincere,
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์ •๋ง ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์˜ ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ์ฝ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ 
09:03
who believed that he could read minds.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋ฏฟ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:06
So they set up a test with him, and this is the way it always works.
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IIG๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ฅผ ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ทธ ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ๋Š” ๊ณต์‹ ๋ ฅ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
09:12
The group says, "OK, we have a protocol,
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์ „๋ฌธ ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ ์ดˆ์•ˆ์ด ์žˆ์–ด์„œ, IIG๋Š” ๊ทธ์—๊ฒŒ ํ—ˆ๋ฝ์„ ๊ตฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:14
we have a way to scientifically test this.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ณผํ•™์ ์œผ๋กœ ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€๋ฐ์š”.
09:16
Do you agree with it?"
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๋™์˜ ํ•˜์‹œ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
09:18
The person says yes. Then they test it.
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๊ทธ๋Š” ๋™์˜ํ–ˆ๊ณ , IIG ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:19
It's very important that both sides agree.
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์–‘์ชฝ ๋ชจ๋‘ ๋™์˜๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:22
They did that, they tested him.
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๊ทธ ์ดํ›„ ๊ทธ์˜ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ๋งˆ์ณค์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:24
They said, "OK, you know what?
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IIG๋Š” ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๊ทธ์—๊ฒŒ ์•Œ๋ ค์คฌ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:27
You weren't able to predict what Lisa was thinking.
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"๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๋ฆฌ์‚ฌ(์‹คํ—˜์ž)๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์˜ˆ์ธกํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์–ด์š”."
09:30
It matched up about the same as chance.
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"์šฐ์—ฐํžˆ ๋งž์ถ”๋Š” ์ •๋„์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค."
09:32
Looks like you don't have the power."
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"๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ํŒ๋‹จ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค."
09:34
And that gave them the opportunity
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IIG๋Š” ๋™์ •์–ด๋ฆฐ ๋งˆ์Œ์œผ๋กœ ๊ทธ์™€ ๋งˆ์ฃผ ์•‰์•„
09:36
to compassionately sit down with him and have a very difficult discussion,
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ํž˜๋“  ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:41
which basically amounted to,
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๋Œ€ํ™”๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ด๋ ‡์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:43
"Hey, we know you're sincere, and what that means is,
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"์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋„ ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ง„์‹ฌ์ž„์€ ์ž˜ ์•Œ์ง€๋งŒ ๋‹จ๋„์ง์ž…์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งํ• ๊ฒŒ์š”"
09:48
you do hear something in your head."
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ํ™˜์ฒญ์ด ๋“ค๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:50
And that guy got to make the very difficult decision,
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๊ทธ๋‚  ๊ทธ๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ๊ฒฐ์ •์„ ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:55
but really the life-changing decision about whether to go get help.
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์ธ์ƒ์„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋Š” ๊ฒฐ์ •์„ ํ•˜์ฃ . ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์–ด๋”” ๊ฐ€๋ฉด ์น˜๋ฃŒ๋ฐ›์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:01
We're actually helping people to make these connections
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์ ๊ทน์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋„์™€์ค˜์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:06
that maybe before seemed like otherworldly explanations,
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๊ณผํ•™์  ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜์˜ ์„ค๋ช…์ด๋ผ ์—ฌ๊ฒจ์กŒ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„
10:12
help draw us into reality and maybe change our lives for the better.
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ํ˜„์‹ค๋กœ ์ ‘๊ทผํ•ด, ๋” ๋‚˜์€ ์‚ถ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณ€ํ™”์‹œ์ผœ์ฃผ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:18
Now, on the other hand, maybe one time it'll turn out to be true.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•œํŽธ์œผ๋กœ๋Š”, ์–ธ์  ๊ฐ€๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์„ ์ง„์‹ค๋กœ ๋งˆ์ฃผํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:24
Maybe we'll find out there are ghosts,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์œ ๋ น์˜ ์กด์žฌ๋ฅผ ์•Œ๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:26
and holy shit, it will be the best thing!
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๋Œ€๋ฐ•, ๊ทธ๊ฑด ๋ถ„๋ช… ์ตœ๊ณ ์ผ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:28
And every time I do one of these investigations,
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๋ชจ๋“  ์กฐ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ํ•  ๋•Œ
10:31
I still get so excited,
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์ง€๊ธˆ๋„ ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ํฅ๋ถ„๋˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
10:33
and I'm like 75 into them,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ 75๋ฒˆ์งธ ์กฐ์‚ฌํ•  ๋•Œ
10:35
and still I swear on number 76, I'm going to be like, "This is the one!"
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๋งˆ์Œ์†์œผ๋กœ "์ œ๋ฐœ 76๋ฒˆ์งธ ์กฐ์‚ฌ๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค์ด์—ˆ์œผ๋ฉด ์ข‹๊ฒ ๋‹ค."
10:39
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
10:40
Maybe I'm just eternally optimistic, but I hope I never lose this hope,
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์ €๋Š” ์–ธ์ œ๋‚˜ ๊ธ์ ์ ์ธ๋ฐ์š”, ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ํฌ๋ง์„ ๋๊นŒ์ง€ ํฌ๊ธฐํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:45
and I invite you to take this same attitude
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋‚˜๋ˆŒ ๋•Œ
10:49
when people share their outer beliefs with you.
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์ €์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋งˆ์Œ์œผ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ๋ฐ”๋ผ ๋ณด์…จ์œผ๋ฉด ์ข‹๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:52
When talking about testable claims,
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๊ฒ€์‚ฌํ•ด ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ฃผ์žฅ๋“ค์„ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ ํ•  ๋•Œ
10:54
respect them enough to ask these good questions.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์‹ ๋…์„ ํ‰๊ฐ€ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ์ถฉ๋ถ„ํžˆ ์กด์ค‘ํ•ด ์ฃผ์„ธ์š”.
10:58
Challenge and see how you can examine them together,
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์กฐ์‚ฌํ•˜๊ณ , ๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ ํ•  ์ˆ˜์žˆ์ง€ ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ•ด ์ฃผ์„ธ์š”.
11:01
because there's this idea that you can't respect a belief
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๋ฌผ๋ก , ์กด์ค‘ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋Œ€ํ™”ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒฌํ•ด์™€ ๋งˆ์ฃผํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋งˆ๋ จ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:05
and still challenge it, but that's not true.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์„œ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด ๋  ์ˆ˜๋Š” ์—†์ฃ .
11:07
When we jiggle the lock, when we test the claim,
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์„ค๋“์„ ํ•ด์„œ, ํ…Œ์ŠคํŠธ ํ•  ๋•Œ
11:10
we're saying, OK, I respect you, I'm listening to what you're saying,
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์ €ํฌ๋Š” "๋‹น์‹ ์„ ์กด์ค‘ํ•ด์š”, ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ๋ง์— ๊ท€๊ธฐ์šธ์ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”." ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:14
I'm going to test it out with you.
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์ €๋Š” ๋‹น์‹ ๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ฆ๋ช…ํ•ด ๋ณด๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์š”.
11:16
We've all had that experience where you're telling someone something,
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€์™€ ๋Œ€ํ™”ํ•  ๋•Œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฝํ—˜ ํ•œ๋ฒˆ์”ฉ ํ•ด๋ณด์ž–์•„์š”.
11:20
and they're like, "Oh, that's really interesting, yeah,"
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"์˜ค ์ฐธ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กญ๊ตฐ์š”..๋„ค๋„ค"
11:22
you know you're being had.
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๊ทธ๋•Œ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋ถ„ ๋‹ค ์•Œ์ž–์•„์š”.
11:25
But when someone says, "Really? Huh.
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๋˜ ์–ด๋–ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐ˜์‘ ๋ณด์ด์ฃ , "์ •๋ง๋กœ์š”? ํ ..
11:29
Sounds a little sketchy to me, but I'm listening,"
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์ข€ ๋ง์€ ์•ˆ๋˜์ง€๋งŒ, ๊ณ„์† ๋งํ•ด๋ด์š”"
11:31
you at least know you're being engaged and respected.
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์ ์–ด๋„ ์ƒ๋Œ€๋ฐฉ์ด ๊ท€๋ฅผ ๊ธฐ์šธ์ด๋Š”์ง€ ์กด์ค‘ํ•ด์ฃผ๋Š”์ง€ ์•Œ์ž–์•„์š”.
11:34
And that's the kind of attitude we should have with these claims.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ฃผ์žฅ๋“ค์„ ๋“ค์„ ๋•Œ๋„, ์•ž์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํƒœ๋„๋ฅผ ๋ณด์—ฌ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:37
That's showing someone that you care what they're saying.
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๋น„๋ก ๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๋„ ๊ฒฝ์ฒญํ•˜๋Š” ์ž์„ธ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์—ฌ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:40
That's respect.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๊ฒŒ ์กด์ค‘์ด์ฃ .
11:46
Now, yes, most of these searches will come up empty,
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์ง€๊ธˆ์œผ๋กœ์„  ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ์กฐ์‚ฌ๋Š” ๋ณ„์†Œ๋“์ด ์—†์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:50
but that's how all of science works.
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๊ณผํ•™์œผ๋กœ ๋ชจ๋‘ ์ฆ๋ช…๋œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:52
Every cure for cancer so far has not panned out,
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ํ˜„์žฌ๋กœ์จ ์•”์„ ์น˜์œ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋„ ๋”์ด์ƒ ์ง„ํ–‰ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:57
but we don't stop looking,
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๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ด์œ  ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
11:59
for two reasons.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฐ„๊ณผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:01
Because number one, the answer matters.
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์ฒซ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋Š”, ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์ฑ…์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:03
Whether it's looking at the afterlife or the paranormal or the cure for cancer,
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์‚ฌํ›„์„ธ๊ณ„๋‚˜, ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜์˜ ํ˜„์ƒ๊ณผ ์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์•” ์น˜๋ฃŒ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฐพ๋“ ์ง€ ๊ฐ„์—
12:07
it all amounts to the same question:
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๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ฐ™์€ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ์ง๋ฉดํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:09
How long will we be here?
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์–ธ์ œ๊นŒ์ง€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‚ด๊ฒŒ ๋ ๊นŒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:13
And two, because looking for the truth,
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๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๋Š”, ์ง„์‹ค์„ ์ฐพ๋Š”๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
12:17
being open-minded,
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์—ด๋ฆฐ ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ๊ฐ–๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:18
and being willing to be wrong and to change your whole worldview
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๊ธฐ๊บผ์ด ์ž˜๋ชป์„ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜, ๋ณธ์ธ์˜ ์„ธ๊ณ„๊ด€์„ ๋ณ€ํ™”์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
12:23
is awe-inspiring.
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๊ฐํžˆ ๊ฒฝ์™ธ๊ฐ์„ ๋ถˆ๋Ÿฌ์ผ์œผํ‚จ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:26
I still get excited at ghost stories every single time.
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์ €๋Š” ์œ ๋ น์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ ํ•  ๋•Œ๋งˆ๋‹ค ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ํฅ๋ถ„์„ ๊ฐ์ถœ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
12:29
I still consider that every group I join might be right,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์†ํ•ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์กฐ์ง์ด ๋‹ค ์˜ณ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐ๋˜์ง€๋งŒ
12:33
and I hope I never lose that hope.
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์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ์˜ํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์˜ ์กด์žฌ๋ฅผ ๋ฏฟ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:35
Let's all never lose that hope,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅ์„ฑ ํ•ญ์ƒ ์—ด์–ด๋‘์ž๊ณ ์š”.
12:36
because searching for what's out there
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๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€์˜ ์กด์žฌ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ๋Š”๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
12:39
helps us understand what's in here.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์‚ด๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ํ˜„์žฌ๋ฅผ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ ๋„์›€์„ ์ฃผ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:42
And also, please have a carbon monoxide detector in your home.
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๋์œผ๋กœ ์ œ๋ฐœ ์ผ์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ๊ฐ์ง€๊ธฐ๋Š” ์ง‘์— ํ•˜๋‚˜์”ฉ ๊ผญ ์„ค์น˜ํ•ด๋‘ก์‹œ๋‹ค.
12:49
Thank you.
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๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:51
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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