Sebastian Junger: Why veterans miss war

Translator: Ilze Garda Reviewer: Līga Greiškāne

I'm going to ask and try to answer,

Es uzdošu un mēģināšu atbildēt

in some ways, kind of an uncomfortable question.

uz savā ziņā neērtu jautājumu.

Both civilians, obviously, and soldiers

Gan civiliedzīvotāji, protams, gan kareivji

suffer in war;

karā cieš.

I don't think any civilian has ever missed

Nedomāju, ka kāds civiliedzīvotājs

the war that they were subjected to.

jelkad būtu ilgojies pēc piedzīvotā kara.

I've been covering wars for almost 20 years,

Esmu rakstījis par karu gandrīz 20 gadus,

and one of the remarkable things for me

un viena no lietām, kas mani pārsteidz, ir tā,

is how many soldiers find themselves missing it.

cik daudzi kareivji saprot, ka viņiem tā pietrūkst.

How is it someone can go through

Kā nākas, ka cilvēks iziet cauri

baisākajai pieredzei, kādu vien var iedomāties,

the worst experience imaginable,

and come home, back to their home,

atgriežas savās mājās, pie savas ģimenes un valsts

and their family, their country, and miss the war?

un viņam pietrūkst karš?

How does that work? What does it mean?

Kā tā var būt? Ko tas nozīmē?

We have to answer that question,

Mums jāatrod atbilde uz šo jautājumu,

because if we don't, it'll be impossible

jo, ja to neizdarīsim, būs neiespējami

to bring soldiers back

atgriezt kareivjus

to a place in society where they belong,

vietā un sabiedrībā, kurai viņi ir piederīgi,

and I think it'll also be impossible to stop war,

un, manuprāt, būs arī neiespējami apturēt karu,

if we don't understand how that mechanism works.

ja neizpratīsim, kā šis mehānisms darbojas.

The problem is that war

Problēma ir, ka, runājot par karu,

does not have a simple, neat truth,

nav tādas vienkāršas, skaidras patiesības —

one simple, neat truth.

vienas vienkāršas, skaidras patiesības.

Any sane person hates war,

Jebkurš cilvēks pie pilna prāta ienīst karu,

hates the idea of war,

ienīst kara ideju,

wouldn't want to have anything to do with it,

negribētu nekādā veidā būt ar to saistīts,

doesn't want to be near it, doesn't want to know about it.

negrib būt tā tuvumā, negrib par to zināt.

That's a sane response to war.

Tā ir saprātīga reakcija uz karu.

But if I asked all of you in this room,

Bet, ja es pajautātu visiem klātesošajiem,

who here has paid money

kurš no jums ir maksājis naudu,

to go to a cinema

lai aizietu uz kino

and be entertained by a Hollywood war movie,

un pavadītu laiku, skatoties kādu Holivudas filmu par karu,

most of you would probably raise your hands.

lielākā daļa no jums, iespējams, paceltu rokas.

That's what's so complicated about war.

Lūk, tas ir tas sarežģītais karā.

And trust me, if a room full of peace-loving people

Ticiet man, ja vesela grupa mieru mīlošu ļautiņu

finds something compelling about war,

karā saskata kaut ko aizraujošu,

so do 20-year-old soldiers

tad to dara arī 20-gadīgi kareivji,

who have been trained in it, I promise you.

kuri tam ir apmācīti, to es varu jums apsolīt.

That's the thing that has to be understood.

Tieši tas ir jāsaprot.

I've covered war for about 20 years, as I said,

Kā jau teicu, esmu rakstījis par karu aptuveni 20 gadus,

but my most intense experiences in combat

taču visspilgtākā kauju pieredze

were with American soldiers in Afghanistan.

man ir no laika Afganistānā kopā ar amerikāņu karavīriem.

I've been in Africa, the Middle East,

Esmu bijis Āfrikā, Tuvajos Austrumos,

Afghanistan in the '90s,

90. gados Afganistānā,

but it was with American soldiers in 2007, 2008,

bet tieši kopā ar amerikāņu karavīriem 2007. un 2008. gadā

that I was confronted with

es piedzīvoju

very intense combat.

ļoti spraigas kaujas.

I was in a small valley called the Korengal Valley

Es biju mazā ielejā, ko sauc par Korengālas ieleju,

in eastern Afghanistan.

Afganistānas austrumos.

It was six miles long.

Tā bija 10 kilometru gara.

There were 150 men of Battle Company in that valley,

Ielejā bija 150 kaujas rotas vīru,

and for a while, while I was there,

un laikā, kamēr biju tur,

almost 20 percent of all the combat

gandrīz 20% visu Afganistānas kauju

in all of Afghanistan was happening

notika šajos 10 kilometros.

in those six miles.

A hundred and fifty men were absorbing

Pāris mēnešus 150 vīru uzņēma

almost a fifth of the combat for all of NATO forces

gandrīz piekto daļu

no visām NATO spēku kaujām šajā valstī.

in the country, for a couple months.

It was very intense.

Tā bija milzīga spriedze.

I spent most of my time at a small outpost

Lielāko daļu sava laika es pavadīju

mazā priekšpostenī — Restrepo.

called Restrepo.

It was named after the platoon medic

Tas bija nosaukts vada mediķa vārdā,

that had been killed about two months into the deployment.

kuru nogalināja apmēram 2 mēnešus pēc karaspēka izvietošanas.

It was a few plywood B-huts

Tur bija dažas saplākšņa būdas,

clinging to a side of a ridge,

kas turējās cieši pie kalnu grēdas malas,

and sandbags, bunkers, gun positions,

smilšu maisi, bunkuri, ieroču pozīcijas

and there were 20 men up there

un 20 kaujas rotas otrā vada vīru.

of Second Platoon, Battle Company.

I spent most of my time up there.

Lielāko daļu laika es pavadīju tur.

There was no running water.

Tekoša ūdens nebija.

There was no way to bathe.

Nomazgāties nevarēja.

The guys were up there for a month at a time.

Tur, augšā, puiši sabija mēnesi no vietas.

They never even got out of their clothes.

Viņi ne reizi pat nenovilka savas drēbes.

They fought. The worked.

Viņi cīnījās, viņi strādāja, viņi gulēja

They slept in the same clothes.

They never took them off, and at the end of the month,

tajās pašās drēbēs.

Viņi tās nekad nenovilka,

they went back down to the company headquarters,

un, mēneša beigās dodoties atpakaļ uz rotas štābu,

and by then, their clothes were unwearable.

viņu drēbes bija nevalkājamas.

They burned them and got a new set.

Viņi tās sadedzināja un dabūja jaunu komplektu.

There was no Internet. There was no phone.

Tur nebija ne Interneta, ne telefona.

There was no communication with the outside world up there.

Tur, augšā, nebija iespēju sazināties ar apkārtējo pasauli.

There was no cooked food.

Īsta, pagatavota ēdiena nebija.

There was nothing up there

Tur, augšā, nebija nekā no tā,

that young men typically like:

kas parasti patīk jauniem vīriešiem —

no cars, no girls, no television, nothing

ne mašīnu, ne meiteņu, ne televīzijas, nekā,

except combat.

izņemot kauju —

Combat they did learn to like.

kauju, ko viņi ar laiku iemīlēja.

I remember one day, it was a very hot day

Es atceros kādu dienu,

tā bija ļoti karsta pavasara diena,

in the spring,

and we hadn't been in a fight

un kauju nebija bijis

in a couple of weeks, maybe.

varbūt pāris nedēļu.

Usually, the outpost was attacked,

Parasti priekšpostenim uzbruka,

and we hadn't seen any combat in a couple of weeks,

bet pāris nedēļu mēs nebijām piedzīvojuši nevienu kauju,

and everyone was just stunned

un visi bija kā apstulbuši

with boredom and heat.

aiz garlaicības un karstuma.

And I remember the lieutenant walking past me

Es atceros leitnantu ejam man garām,

sort of stripped to the waist.

izģērbušos līdz jostas vietai,

It was incredibly hot.

bija neticami karsts...

Stripped to the waist, walked past me muttering,

Izģērbies līdz jostas vietai, viņš garāmejot nomurmināja:

"Oh God, please someone attack us today."

„Ak Dievs, kaut mums kāds šodien uzbruktu!”

That's how bored they were.

Tik ļoti viņi bija nogarlaikojušies.

That's war too, is a lieutenant saying,

Arī tas ir karš — leitnants, kas saka:

"Please make something happen

„Kaut šodien kaut kas notiktu,

because we're going crazy."

citādi mēs jūkam prātā.”

To understand that,

Lai to saprastu,

you have to, for a moment,

jums uz brīdi

think about combat not morally --

jāapdomā kauja nevis no morālā skatpunkta,

that's an important job to do —

tas, protams, ir svarīgi,

but for a moment, don't think about it morally,

bet uz mirkli nedomājiet par morāli,

think about it neurologically.

padomājiet par to no neiroloģiskā skatpunkta.

Let's think about what happens in your brain

Padomāsim, kas notiek smadzenēs,

when you're in combat.

esot kaujā.

First of all, the experience

Pirmkārt, šī pieredze

is very bizarre, it's a very bizarre one.

ir ļoti dīvaina, tā ir ārkārtīgi dīvaina.

It's not what I had expected.

Ne tāda, kādu es biju gaidījis.

Usually, you're not scared.

Parasti jums nav bail.

I've been very scared in combat,

Esmu izjutis milzīgas bailes kaujā,

but most of the time when I was out there,

taču lielākoties, esot tur,

I wasn't scared.

man nebija bail.

I was very scared beforehand

Es biju ļoti nobijies pirms

and incredibly scared afterwards,

un neiedomājami nobijies pēc tam,

and that fear that comes afterwards can last years.

un tās bailes, kas atnāk pēc tam, var ilgt gadiem.

I haven't been shot at in six years,

Uz mani nav šāvuši sešus gadus,

and I was woken up very abruptly this morning

un šorīt es pēkšņi pamodos

by a nightmare that I was being strafed by aircraft,

no murga, ka mani apšauda lidmašīna —

six years later.

sešus gadus vēlāk.

I've never even been strafed by aircraft,

Mani pat nekad nav apšaudījusi lidmašīna,

and I was having nightmares about it.

un es par to murgoju.

Time slows down.

Laiks iet arvien lēnāk.

You get this weird tunnel vision.

Jums parādās šī dīvainā tuneļa redze.

You notice some details very, very, very accurately

Dažas detaļas jūs pamanāt ļoti, ļoti precīzi,

and other things drop out.

citas it kā pazūd.

It's almost a slightly altered state of mind.

Tas ir gandrīz mazliet mainīts apziņas stāvoklis.

What's happening in your brain

Tas, kas notiek jūsu smadzenēs —

is you're getting an enormous amount of adrenaline

jūsu organismā izdalās milzīgs adrenalīna daudzums.

pumped through your system.

Young men will go to great lengths

Jauni vīrieši dara daudz ko,

to have that experience.

lai to piedzīvotu.

It's wired into us.

Tas ir mūsos iekšā.

It's hormonally supported.

Tas ir mūsu hormonos.

The mortality rate for young men in society

Jaunu vīriešu mirstība pasaulē

is six times what it is for young women

sešas reizes pārsniedz jaunu sieviešu mirstību

from violence and from accidents,

vardarbības un nelaimes gadījumu dēļ,

just the stupid stuff that young men do:

to stulbību dēļ, ko jauni vīrieši dara —

jumping off of things they shouldn't jump off of,

lec no vietām, no kurām nevajadzētu lekt,

lighting things on fire they shouldn't light on fire,

aizdedzina to, ko nevajadzētu aizdedzināt,

I mean, you know what I'm talking about.

jūs taču zināt, par ko es runāju.

They die at six times the rate

Viņi mirst sešreiz vairāk

that young women do.

nekā jaunas sievietes.

Statistically, you are safer as a teenage boy,

Statistiski ir drošāk būt pusaudzim,

you would be safer in the fire department

ir drošāk būt ugunsdzēsēju depo

or the police department in most American cities

vai policijas iecirknī lielākajā daļā ASV pilsētu,

than just walking around the streets of your hometown

nekā vienkārši staigājot pa pilsētas ielām

looking for something to do,

un meklējot kaut ko, ar ko sevi nodarbināt —

statistically.

statistiski.

You can imagine how that plays out in combat.

Varat iedomāties, kā tas izpaužas kaujā.

At Restrepo, every guy up there was almost killed,

Augšā, Restrepo, ikviens no vīriem bija gandrīz nogalināts,

including me,

ieskaitot mani,

including my good friend Tim Hetherington,

manu labu draugu Timu Heteringtonu,

who was later killed in Libya.

kurš vēlāk gāja bojā Lībijā.

There were guys walking around

Daži puiši staigāja formas tērpos ar ložu atstātiem caurumiem,

with bullet holes in their uniforms,

rounds that had cut through the fabric

lodes, kas bija izurbušās cauri audumam,

and didn't touch their bodies.

nepieskaroties viņu ķermeņiem.

I was leaning against some sandbags one morning,

Kādu rītu es biju atlaidies pret smilšu maisiem,

not much going on, sort of spacing out,

apkārt viss diezgan mierīgi, es tā kā piemigu,

and some sand was kicked into the side of,

un kaut kādas smiltis iesitās,

sort of hit the side of my face.

it kā iesitās man sejas vienā pusē.

Something hit the side of my face, and I didn't know what it was.

Kaut kas iesitās man sejā, un es nezināju, kas tas ir.

You have to understand about bullets

Jums jāsaprot, ka lodes

that they go a lot faster than sound,

pārvietojas daudz ātrāk nekā skaņa,

so if someone shoots at you

tāpēc, ja kāds uz jums šauj

from a few hundred meters,

no dažu simtu metru attāluma,

the bullet goes by you, or hits you obviously,

lode paiet garām — nu vai, protams, trāpa —

half a second or so before the sound catches up to it.

aptuveni pussekundi, pirms skaņa to panāk.

So I had some sand sprayed in the side of my face.

Tātad es sajutu sejā smiltis.

Half a second later, I heard dut-dut-dut-dut-duh.

Pussekundi vēlāk es dzirdēju da-da-da-da-da.

It was machine gun fire.

Tas bija ložmetējs.

It was the first round, the first burst

Tā bija stundu ilgas apšaudes pirmā zalve, pirmais šāviens.

of an hour-long firefight.

What had happened was the bullet hit,

Lode bija trāpījusi

a bullet hit three or four inches from the side of my head.

8—10 cm attālumā no manas galvas.

Imagine, just think about it, because I certainly did,

Iedomājieties, tikai padomājiet par to, jo es pavisam noteikti padomāju,

think about the angle of deviation that saved my life.

padomājiet par šo novirzi, kas izglāba man dzīvību.

At 400 meters, it missed me by three inches.

No 400 metru attāluma bija nošauti greizi 8 cm.

Just think about the math on that.

Vien iztēlojieties šo matemātiku!

Every guy up there

Tur, augšā, ikviens puisis

had some experience like that,

bija piedzīvojis ko līdzīgu —

at least once, if not many times.

vismaz vienu, ja ne vairākas reizes.

The boys are up there for a year.

Puiši tur, augšā, pavadīja gadu.

They got back.

Viņi atgriezās.

Some of them got out of the Army

Daļa pameta armiju,

and had tremendous psychological problems when they got home.

un atgriežoties viņus piemeklēja milzīgas psiholoģiskas problēmas.

Some of them stayed in the Army

Daļa palika armijā,

and were more or less okay, psychologically.

un viņiem klājās vairāk vai mazāk labi — psiholoģiski.

I was particularly close to a guy named Brendan O'Byrne.

Man bija īpaši tuvs kāds puisis vārdā Brendans O'Bērns.

I'm still very good friends with him.

Mēs joprojām esam labi draugi.

He came back to the States. He got out of the Army.

Viņš atgriezās ASV. Viņš pameta armiju.

I had a dinner party one night.

Kādu vakaru pie manis bija viesības.

I invited him,

Es biju uzaicinājis viņu,

and he started talking with a woman,

un viņš sāka runāt ar kādu sievieti,

one of my friends,

vienu no maniem draugiem.

and she knew how bad it had been out there,

Viņa zināja, cik tur bija bijis baisi,

and she said, "Brendan,

un jautāja: „Brendan,

is there anything at all that you miss about

vai ir jelkas, kas tev pietrūkst

being out in Afghanistan, about the war?"

no būšanas Afganistānā, no kara?”

And he thought about it quite a long time,

Viņš ilgi apdomāja atbildi

and finally he said, "Ma'am, I miss almost all of it."

un visbeidzot teica: „Man pietrūkst gandrīz visa.”

And he's one of the most traumatized people

Viņš ir viens no šajā karā vissmagāk traumētajiem cilvēkiem,

I've seen from that war.

ko es pazīstu.

"Ma'am, I miss almost all of it."

„Man pietrūkst gandrīz visa.”

What is he talking about?

Par ko viņš runā?

He's not a psychopath.

Viņš nav psihopāts.

He doesn't miss killing people.

Viņam nepietrūkst nogalināšanas.

He's not crazy. He doesn't miss getting shot at

Viņš nav jucis. Viņam nepietrūkst, ka uz viņu šauj

and seeing his friends get killed.

un ka tiek nogalināti viņa draugi.

What is it that he misses? We have to answer that.

Kas tad viņam pietrūkst? Mums jāatrod uz to atbilde.

If we're going to stop war, we have to answer that question.

Ja gribam apturēt karu, mums jāatrod atbilde uz šo jautājumu.

I think what he missed is brotherhood.

Manuprāt, viņam pietrūkst biedriskuma.

He missed, in some ways,

Viņam kaut kādā ziņā pietrūkst

the opposite of killing.

tieši pretējais nogalināšanai.

What he missed was connection

Viņam pietrūkst saikne

to the other men he was with.

ar pārējiem vīriem, ar kuriem viņš bija kopā.

Now, brotherhood is different from friendship.

Biedriskums atšķiras no draudzības.

Friendship happens in society, obviously.

Draudzība, protams, veidojas sabiedrībā.

The more you like someone,

Jo vairāk jums kāds patīk,

the more you'd be willing to do for them.

jo vairāk esat gatavs viņa labā darīt.

Brotherhood has nothing to do

Biedriskumam nav nekāda sakara

with how you feel about the other person.

ar to, ko jūtat pret otru cilvēku.

It's a mutual agreement in a group

Tā ir savstarpēja vienošanās grupā,

that you will put the welfare of the group,

ka grupas labklājību,

you will put the safety of everyone in the group

ikviena grupas locekļa drošību

above your own.

nostādīsiet augstāk par savējo.

In effect, you're saying,

Faktiski jūs sakāt:

"I love these other people more than I love myself."

„Es mīlu šos citus cilvēkus vairāk, nekā es mīlu sevi.”

Brendan was a team leader

Brendans bija grupas vadītājs,

in command of three men,

komandējot trīs vīrus,

and the worst day in Afghanistan —

un visbaisākā diena Afganistānā...

He was almost killed so many times.

Viņu neskaitāmas reizes gandrīz nogalināja.

It didn't bother him.

Tas viņu nesatrauca.

The worst thing that happened to him in Afghanistan

Briesmīgākais, ko viņš piedzīvoja Afganistānā, bija tas,

was one of his men was hit in the head with a bullet

ka vienu no viņa vīriem galvā ķēra lode,

in the helmet, knocked him over.

kas trāpīja ķiverē un nogāza viņu no kājām.

They thought he was dead.

Viņi domāja, viņš ir miris.

It was in the middle of a huge firefight.

Tas notika spēcīgas apšaudes laikā.

No one could deal with it, and a minute later,

Neviens tam nevarēja pievērsties, un minūti vēlāk

Kyle Steiner sat back up

Kails Stainers piecēlās sēdus,

from the dead, as it were,

tā teikt, piecēlās no mirušajiem,

because he'd come back to consciousness.

jo viņš bija atguvis samaņu.

The bullet had just knocked him out.

Lode viņam bija likusi zaudēt samaņu, tā bija tikai skārusi ķiveri.

It glanced off the helmet.

He remembers people saying,

Viņš atceras cilvēkus sakām,

as he was sort of half-conscious,

pašam pa pusei esot pie samaņas,

he remembers people saying,

viņš atceras cilvēkus sakām:

"Steiner's been hit in the head. Steiner's dead."

„Staineram trāpīts galvā. Stainers ir miris.”

And he was thinking, "I'm not dead."

Un viņš domāja: „Es neesmu miris.”

And he sat up.

Un piecēlās sēdus.

And Brendan realized after that

Pēc šī atgadījuma Brendans saprata,

that he could not protect his men,

ka viņš nevar pasargāt savus vīrus,

and that was the only time he cried in Afghanistan,

un vienīgā reize, kad viņš Afganistānā raudāja bija,

was realizing that.

saprotot to.

That's brotherhood.

Tas ir biedriskums.

This wasn't invented recently.

Tas nav jaunāko laiku izgudrojums.

Many of you have probably read "The Iliad."

Daudzi no jums, iespējams, ir lasījuši „Iliādu”.

Achilles surely would have risked his life

Ahillejs noteikti būtu riskējis ar dzīvību

or given his life to save his friend Patroclus.

vai atdevis to, lai glābtu savu draugu Patroklu.

In World War II, there were many stories

Otrajā pasaules karā bija daudz stāstu

of soldiers who were wounded,

par ievainotiem karavīriem,

were brought to a rear base hospital,

kuri, nogādāti slimnīcās frontes aizmugurē,

who went AWOL,

devās patvaļīgā prombūtnē,

crawled out of windows, slipped out doors,

izrāpās pa logiem, izšmauca pa durvīm,

went AWOL, wounded,

devās patvaļīgā prombūtnē, ievainoti,

to make their way back to the front lines

lai nokļūtu atpakaļ frontē

to rejoin their brothers out there.

un atgrieztos pie saviem biedriem.

So you think about Brendan,

Domājot par Brendanu,

you think about all these soldiers

padomājiet par visiem šiem kareivjiem,

having an experience like that, a bond like that,

šo viņu pieredzi, saikni

in a small group,

mazajā grupā,

where they loved 20 other people

kur viņi savā ziņā mīlēja 20 citus cilvēkus

in some ways more than they loved themselves,

vairāk nekā sevi pašu,

you think about how good that would feel, imagine it,

padomājiet, cik tai ir jābūt labai sajūtai, iztēlojieties to!

and they are blessed with that experience for a year,

Gadu viņiem ir dāvāta šī pieredze,

and then they come home,

un tad viņi atgriežas mājās,

and they are just back in society

viņi ir atpakaļ civilizētājā sabiedrībā

like the rest of us are,

gluži tāpat kā mēs,

not knowing who they can count on,

nezinot, uz kuriem cilvēkiem viņi var paļauties,

not knowing who loves them, who they can love,

nezinot, kuri viņus mīl, kurus viņi var mīlēt,

not knowing exactly what anyone they know

īsti nezinot, ko viņu draugi un paziņas

would do for them if it came down to it.

darītu viņu labā, ja tas būtu vajadzīgs.

That is terrifying.

Tas ir biedējoši.

Compared to that,

Salīdzinot ar to,

war, psychologically, in some ways, is easy,

karš savā ziņā ir psiholoģiski vieglāks,

compared to that kind of alienation.

salīdzinot ar šādu atsvešinātību.

That's why they miss it,

Tāpēc viņiem tā pietrūkst,

and that's what we have to understand

un tieši tas mums jāsaprot

and in some ways fix in our society.

un kaut kādā veidā jāsaved kārtībā mūsu sabiedrībā.

Thank you very much.

Liels paldies.

(Aplausi)

(Applause)