Kimberley Motley: How I defend the rule of law | TED

Translator: Adisa Ejubovic Reviewer: Nedžad Neziri

Let me tell you a story

Da vam ispričam jednu priču

about a little girl named Naghma.

o djevojčici Naghmi.

Naghma lived in a refugee camp

Naghma je živjela u izbjegličkom kampu

with her parents and her eight brothers and sisters.

sa roditeljima i njeno osmero braće i sestara.

Every morning, her father would wake up

Svako jutro njen bi se otac probudio

in the hopes he'd be picked for construction work,

u nadi da će ga izabrati za građevinskog radnika

and on a good month he would earn 50 dollars.

i uspješan mjesec bi mu donio zaradu od 50 $.

The winter was very harsh,

Ta zima je bila jako teška

and unfortunately, Naghma's brother died

i nažalost, Naghmin brat je umro

and her mother became very ill.

a majka se tešto razboljela.

In desperation, her father went to a neighbor

Očajan, njen otac je otišao susjedu

to borrow 2,500 dollars.

da pozajmi 2.500$

After several months of waiting,

Poslije nekoliko mjeseci čekanja,

the neighbor became very impatient,

susjed je postao nestrpljiv

and he demanded that he be paid back.

i zahtijevao isplatu duga.

Unfortunately, Naghma's father didn't have the money,

Nažalost, Naghmin otac nije imao taj novac

and so the two men agreed to a jirga.

pa su se njih dvojica dogovorila po zakonu džirge.

So simply put, a jirga is a form of mediation

Džirga je vrsta posredništva

that's used in Afghanistan's informal justice system.

koja se koristila u afganistanskog neformalnom pravosudnom sistemu.

It's usually presided over by religious leaders

Predsjedavajući je uglavnom neki religijski vođa

and village elders,

ili seoski starješina.

and jirgas are often used in rural countries like Afghanistan,

Džirge se često primjenjuju u ruralnim dijelovima Afganistana

where there's deep-seated resentment

gdje vlada uvriježeno nepovjerenje

against the formal system.

prema formalnom sistemu.

At the jirga, the men sat together

Na džirgi, dvojica muškaraca su sjela zajedno

and they decided that the best way to satisfy the debt

i odlučila da najbolji način za izmirivanje duga

would be if Naghma married the neighbor's 21-year-old son.

bude vjenčanje Naghme za susjedog 21-ogodišnjeg sina.

She was six.

Ona je imala 6 godina.

Now, stories like Naghma's unfortunately

Nažalost, priče poput Naghmine

are all too common,

su jako česte

and from the comforts of our home,

i iz ugosnosti našeg doma

we may look at these stories as another

ove priče posmatramo kao još jedan

crushing blow to women's rights.

razarajući udarac na ljudska prava.

And if you watched Afghanistan on the news,

Ako slušate o Afganistanu na vijestima,

you may have this view that it's a failed state.

steći ćete utisak da je država omanula.

However, Afghanistan does have a legal system,

Međutim, Afganistan ima pravosudni sistem,

and while jirgas are built on long-standing tribal customs,

i dok su džirge zasnovane na dugogodišnjim plemeskim običajima

even in jirgas, laws are supposed to be followed,

čak i u džirgi zakon treba da se poštuje.

and it goes without saying

Podrazumijeva se da

that giving a child to satisfy a debt

davanje djeteta kao izmiru duga

is not only grossly immoral, it's illegal.

ne samo da je nemoralno nego i ilegalno.

In 2008, I went to Afghanistan

G. 2008. otišla sam u Afganistan

for a justice funded program,

na program finansiran od strane sudstva.

and I went there originally on this nine-month program

Program je trajao 9 mjeseci i zadatak je bio

to train Afghan lawyers.

da obučim afganistanske advokate.

In that nine months, I went around the country

U tih 9 mjeseci obišla sam zemlju

and I talked to hundreds of people that were locked up,

i pričala sa stotinama zatvorenika

and I talked to many businesses

i mnogim poduzetnicima

that were also operating in Afghanistan.

koji su radili u Afganistanu.

And within these conversations,

Iz ovih razgovora

I started hearing the connections

čula sam o povezanosti

between the businesses and the people,

između poduzeća i ljudi

and how laws that were meant to protect them

i kako su zakoni koji bi trebalo da ih štite

were being underused,

bili nedovoljno primjenjivani

while gross and illegal punitive measures were overused.

dok su strašne i ilegalne kaznene mjere bile korštene previše.

And so this put me on a quest for justness,

To me je nagnalo na borbu za pravdu

and what justness means to me

a pravda za mene

is using laws for their intended purpose,

korištenje zakona u njegovu svrhu

which is to protect.

koja je zaštita.

The role of laws is to protect.

Uloga zakona je da štiti.

So as a result, I decided to open up a private practice,

Zbog toga sam odlučila da otvorim privatnu kancelariju

and I became the first foreigner to litigate

i postala prva strankinja koja je parničila

in Afghan courts.

u afganistanskim sudovima.

Throughout this time, I also studied many laws,

U toku ovog perioda proučila sam mnogo zakona,

I talked to many people,

pričala sa puno ljudi,

I read up on many cases,

pročitala puno slučajeva

and I found that the lack of justness

i zaključila da manjak pravde

is not just a problem in Afghanistan,

nije samo problem Afganistana

but it's a global problem.

nego je cijelog svijeta.

And while I originally shied away from

Iako sam prvenstveno zazirala

representing human rights cases

od zastupanja u slučajevima ljudskih prava

because I was really concerned about how it would

jer sam se brinula kako će se to

affect me both professionally and personally,

odraziti na mene i privatno i profesionalno,

I decided that the need for justness was so great

zaključila sam da je potreba za pravdom tolika

that I couldn't continue to ignore it.

da je jednostavno nisam mogla ignorisati.

And so I started representing people like Naghma

Tako sam počela da zastupam ljude poput Naghme

pro bono also.

besplatno.

Now, since I've been in Afghanistan

Od mog dolaska u Afganistan

and since I've been an attorney for over 10 years,

i u toku svoje 10-ogodišnje advokatske karijere

I've represented from CEOs of Fortune 500 companies

zastupala sam izvršne direktore najbogatijih kompanija,

to ambassadors to little girls like Naghma,

ambasadore i djevočice Nagme

and with much success.

i to veoma uspješno.

And the reason for my success is very simple:

Razlog mog uspjeha je bio jednostavan:

I work the system from the inside out

Radim detaljno u okviru sistema

and use the laws in the ways

i koristim zakone na način

that they're intended to be used.

na koji su namijenjeni da se upotrijebe.

I find that

Saznala sam da

achieving justness in places like Afghanistan

postizanje pravde u mjestima poput Afganistana

is difficult, and there's three reasons.

je teško iz 3 razloga.

The first reason is that simply put,

Prvi je vrlo jednostavan.

people are very uneducated as to what their legal rights were,

Ljudi ne znaju koja su njihova prava

and I find that this is a global problem.

i smatram da je to globalni problem.

The second issue

Drugi problem je taj da

is that even with laws on the books,

čak i uz zakone u knjigama

it's often superseded or ignored

njih prevazilaze ili ignorišu

by tribal customs, like in the first jirga

plemeski običaji, kao u prvoj džirgi

that sold Naghma off.

preko koje je Naghma prodata.

And the third problem with achieving justness

Treći problem u postizanju pravde

is that even with good, existing laws on the books,

je taj da čak i uz dobre postojeće zakone u knjigama

there aren't people or lawyers that are willing to fight

nema ljudi ili advokata koji su spremni da se bore

for those laws.

za te zakone.

And that's what I do: I use existing laws,

A to ja radim. Ja se služim

often unused laws,

često nekorištenim zakonima

and I work those to the benefits of my clients.

i stavljam ih u korist svojih klijenata.

We all need to create a global culture

Svi treba da stvorimo globalnu kulturu

of human rights

ljudskih prava

and be investors in a global human rights economy,

i uložimo u ekonomiju ljudskih prava.

and by working in this mindset,

Imajući ovo u vidu

we can significantly improve justice globally.

možemo značajno promijeniti globalnu pravednost.

Now let's get back to Naghma.

Vratimo se sada Naghmi.

Several people heard about this story,

Nekoliko ljudi je čulo za ovu priču

and so they contacted me because they wanted

i kontaktirali su me sa željom da

to pay the $2,500 debt.

plate dug od 2.500$.

And it's not just that simple;

To nije tako jednostavno.

you can't just throw money at this problem

Ne može se samo baciti novac na ovaj problem

and think that it's going to disappear.

i pomisliti da će da nestane.

That's not how it works in Afghanistan.

To tako ne funkcioniše u Afganistanu.

So I told them I'd get involved,

Rekla sam im da ću ja intervenisati,

but in order to get involved, what needed to happen

ali da bih to mogla, morala je da se održi

is a second jirga needed to be called,

druga džirga,

a jirga of appeals.

žalbena džirga.

And so in order for that to happen,

Kako bi se to desilo

we needed to get the village elders together,

morali smo da sazovemo seoske starješine,

we needed to get the tribal leaders together,

plemenske vođe

the religious leaders.

i religijske vođe.

Naghma's father needed to agree,

Naghmin otac je morao da se složi,

the neighbor needed to agree,

susjedi su morali da se slože,

and also his son needed to agree.

njegov sin je morao da se složi.

And I thought, if I'm going to get involved in this thing,

Pomislila sam, ako planiram da se umiješam,

then they also need to agree that I preside over it.

moraće da se slože da ja budem predsjedavajuća.

So, after hours of talking

Posije višesatnih pregovora

and tracking them down,

i traženja

and about 30 cups of tea,

i tridesetak šoljica čaja

they finally agreed that we could sit down

konačno su dozvolili da se održi

for a second jirga, and we did.

druga džirga, i tako je i bilo.

And what was different about the second jirga

Ono što je bilo drugačije kod druge džirge

is this time, we put the law at the center of it,

je to da su ovog puta zakoni stavljeni u središte

and it was very important for me

i bilo mi je jako važno

that they all understood that Naghma

da svi shvate da je Naghma

had a right to be protected.

imala pravo na zaštitu.

And at the end of this jirga,

Na kraju ove džirge,

it was ordered by the judge

sudija je naredio

that the first decision was erased,

da se prva odluka poništi

and that the $2,500 debt was satisfied,

i da se dug od 2.500$ izmiri.

and we all signed a written order

Svi smo potpisali rješenje

where all the men acknowledged

i svi su muškarci priznali

that what they did was illegal,

da je ono što su uradili bilo ilegalno

and if they did it again, that they would go to prison.

i da će završiti u zatvoru ako to ponove.

Most —

Naj...

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thanks.

Hvala.

And most importantly,

Najvažnije,

the engagement was terminated

zaruke su prekinute

and Naghma was free.

i Naghma je bila slobodna.

Protecting Naghma and her right to be free

Zaštita Naghme i njenog prava na slobodu

protects us.

štiti i nas.

Now, with my job, there's above-average

U mom poslu postoje

amount of risks that are involved.

iznadprosječni rizici.

I've been temporarily detained.

Privremeno sam bila privedena,

I've been accused of running a brothel,

optužena da vodim bordel,

accused of being a spy.

optužena da sam špijun.

I've had a grenade thrown at my office.

Granata mi je bačena na kancelariju.

It didn't go off, though.

Nije eksplodirala doduše.

But I find that with my job,

Ali smatram da u mom poslu

that the rewards far outweigh the risks,

nagrade prevazilaze rizike

and as many risks as I take,

i koliko god rizikovala

my clients take far greater risks,

moji klijenti rizikuju još više

because they have a lot more to lose

jer imaju puno toga da izgube

if their cases go unheard,

ako se ne čuje za njihove slučajeve

or worse, if they're penalized for having me as their lawyer.

ili još gore ako su kažnjeni što sam im ja advokat.

With every case that I take,

U svakom svom slučaju

I realize that as much as I'm standing behind my clients,

svjesna sam da koliko god ja stojala iza svojih klijenata

that they're also standing behind me,

toliko i oni stoje iza mene

and that's what keeps me going.

i to me tjera dalje.

Law as a point of leverage

Zakon kao izvor moći

is crucial in protecting all of us.

ključan je u zaštiti svih nas.

Journalists are very vital in making sure

Novinari su jako bitni jer su zaslužni

that that information is given to the public.

za prijenos informacija u javnost.

Too often, we receive information from journalists

Prečesto dobijamo informacije od novinara,

but we forget how that information was given.

ali zaboravljamo kako je ta informacija prenesena.

This picture is a picture of the

Ovo je slika

British press corps in Afghanistan.

britanskog novinarskog tima u Afganistanu.

It was taken a couple of years ago by my friend David Gill.

Uslikao ju je moj prijatelj David Gill prije nekoliko godina.

According to the Committee to Protect Journalists,

Prema Odboru za zaštitu novinara,

since 2010, there have been thousands of journalists

hiljade novinara je dobijalo

who have been threatened, injured,

prijetnje, bivalo povređivano

killed, detained.

ubijano i privedeno od 2010.

Too often, when we get this information,

Nerijetko, kada dobijemo ove informacije

we forget who it affects

zaboravljamo na koga one utječu

or how that information is given to us.

ili kako smo dobili te informacije.

What many journalists do, both foreign and domestic,

Ono što mnogi novinari rade, i strani i domaći,

is very remarkable, especially in places like Afghanistan,

je fascinantno, pogotovo u mjestima poput Afganistana

i bitno je da to nikada ne zaboravimo

and it's important that we never forget that,

because what they're protecting

jer ono što oni štite

is not only our right to receive that information

nije samo naše pravo da dobijemo te informacije

but also the freedom of the press, which is vital

nego i slobodu medija, koja je ključna

to a democratic society.

za demokratsko društvo.

Matt Rosenberg is a journalist in Afghanistan.

Matt Rosenberg je novinar u Afganistanu.

He works for The New York Times,

Radi za New York Times,

and unfortunately, a few months ago

i nažalost, prije nekoliko mjeseci

he wrote an article that displeased

napisao je članak koji je naljutio

people in the government.

ljude iz vlade.

As a result, he was temporarily detained

Za posljedicu bio je privremeno priveden

and he was illegally exiled out of the country.

i ilegalno protjeran iz zemlje.

I represent Matt,

Ja zastupam Matta

and after dealing with the government,

i poslije razgovora sa vladom

I was able to get legal acknowledgment

uspjela sam da dokažem

that in fact he was illegally exiled,

da je ilegalno protjeran

and that freedom of the press does exist in Afghanistan,

i da u Afganistanu ne postoji sloboda medija

and there's consequences if that's not followed.

i da postoje posljedice ako se to ne poštuje.

And I'm happy to say that

Zadovoljstvo mi je reći da

as of a few days ago,

ga je afganistanska vlada

the Afghan government

prije nekoliko dana

formally invited him back into the country

službeno pozvala da se vrati u zemlju

and they reversed their exile order of him.

i poništila naređenje o prognanstvu.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

If you censor one journalist, then it intimidates others,

Ako cenzurišete jednog novinara, to uplaši i ostale,

and soon nations are silenced.

i uskoro čitave nacije se ušutkaju.

It's important that we protect our journalists

Bitno je da zaštitimo svoje novinare

and freedom of the press,

i slobodu medija,

because that makes governments more accountable to us

jer to čini vlade odgovornijima prema nama

and more transparent.

i transparentnijim.

Protecting journalists and our right

Štićenje novinara i našeg prava

to receive information protects us.

da primamo informacije štiti nas.

Our world is changing. We live in a different world now,

Naš svijet se mijenja. Živimo u drugačijem svijetu

and what were once individual problems

i ono što su nekada bili individualni problemi

are really now global problems for all of us.

sada su globalni problemi za sve nas.

Two weeks ago, Afghanistan had its first

Prije 2 sedmice, Afganistan je imao svoj prvi

democratic transfer of power

demokratski prijenos moći

and elected president Ashraf Ghani, which is huge,

i izabrao je predsjednika Ashrafa Ghanija, što je velika stvar.

and I'm very optimistic about him,

Gajim optimizam prema njemu

and I'm hopeful that he'll give Afghanistan

i nadam se da će donijeti Afganistanu

the changes that it needs,

promjene koje mu trebaju,

especially within the legal sector.

pogotovo u pravnom sektoru.

We live in a different world.

Živimo u drugačijem svijetu.

We live in a world where my eight-year-old daughter

Živimo u svijetu gdje moja osmogodišnja kćerka

only knows a black president.

zna samo za crnog predsjednika.

There's a great possibility that our next president

Postoji velika vjerovatnoća da će naš naredni predsjednik

will be a woman,

biti žena,

and as she gets older, she may question,

i kako bude rasla, možda upita

can a white guy be president?

može li bijelac biti predsjednik?

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Our world is changing, and we need to change with it,

Naš svijet se mijenja i mi moramo da se mijenjamo sa njim, i

and what were once individual problems

ono što su bili individualni problemi

are problems for all of us.

sada su problemi svih nas.

According to UNICEF,

Prema UNICEF-u,

there are currently over 280 million

trenutno ima preko 280 miliona

boys and girls who are married

dječaka i djevojčica ispod 15 godina

under the age of 15.

koji su vjenčani.

Two hundred and eighty million.

Dvjesto osamdeset miliona.

Child marriages prolong the vicious cycle

Dječji brakovi podržavaju začaran krug

of poverty, poor health, lack of education.

siromaštva, lošeg zdravlja i nedostatka obrazovanja.

At the age of 12, Sahar was married.

Sahar je udata sa 12 godina.

She was forced into this marriage

Njen brat ju je prisilio na ovaj brak

and sold by her brother.

i prodao.

When she went to her in-laws' house,

Kada je otišla u kuću svoga muža

they forced her into prostitution.

oni su prisilili na prostituciju.

Because she refused, she was tortured.

Kada je odbila, mučili su je.

She was severely beaten with metal rods.

Udarali su je metalnim šipkama.

They burned her body.

Palili su joj tijelo.

They tied her up in a basement and starved her.

Svezali su je u podrumu i izgladnjivali je.

They used pliers to take out her fingernails.

Klještima su joj čupali nokte.

At one point,

U jednom trenutku

she managed to escape from this torture chamber

uspjela je da pobjegne iz sobe za mučenje

to a neighbor's house,

do kuće susjeda.

and when she went there, instead of protecting her,

Kada je došla tamo, umjesto da je zaštiti

they dragged her back

oni su je dovukli nazad

to her husband's house,

u kuću njenog muža

and she was tortured even worse.

i onda je bila mučena još više.

When I met first Sahar, thankfully,

Kada sam upoznala Sahar,

Women for Afghan Women

Žene za afganistanske žene

gave her a safe haven to go to.

su joj pružile utočište.

As a lawyer, I try to be very strong

Kao advokat, trudim se da budem snažna

for all my clients,

za svoje klijente,

because that's very important to me,

jer mi je to jako bitno,

but seeing her,

ali kada sam vidjela

how broken and very weak as she was,

koliko je bila slomljena i slabačka

was very difficult.

bilo mi je jako teško.

It took weeks for us to really get to

Prošle su sedmice prije nego smo saznali

what happened to her

šta joj se desilo

when she was in that house,

kada je došla u tu kuću,

but finally she started opening up to me,

ali na kraju je počela da mi se povjerava.

and when she opened up,

Kada mi se otvorila,

what I heard was

ono što sam čula

she didn't know what her rights were,

je to da ona nije znala koja su njena prava,

but she did know she had a certain level of protection

ali je znala da je njena vlast trebala zaštiti,

by her government that failed her,

ali je omanula u tome,

and so we were able to talk about

tako da smo uspjeli da pričamo

what her legal options were.

o njenim pravnim opcijama.

And so we decided to take this case

Tako smo odlučili da odnesemo njen slučaj

to the Supreme Court.

pred Vrhovni sud.

Now, this is extremely significant,

Ovo je izuzetno važno,

because this is the first time

jer je ovo prvi slučaj

that a victim of domestic violence in Afghanistan

da je žrtvu porodičnog nasilja u Afganistanu

was being represented by a lawyer,

zastupao advokat,

a law that's been on the books for years and years,

zakonom koji godinama bio na papiru

but until Sahar, had never been used.

ali nikada prije Sahar nije bio upotrijebljen.

In addition to this, we also decided

Pored ovoga, takođe smo odlučili

to sue for civil damages,

da tražimo građansku odštetu

again using a law that's never been used,

ponovo služeći se zakonom koji nikada nije bio upotrebljavan,

but we used it for her case.

ali smo ga iskoristili za ovaj slučaj.

So there we were at the Supreme Court

Tako da smo se našli pred Vrhovnim sudom,

arguing in front of 12 Afghan justices,

i zahtijevali pravdu pre 12 afganistanskih sudaca

me as an American female lawyer,

ja, američka advokatkinja

and Sahar, a young woman

i Sahar, mlada žena

who when I met her couldn't speak above a whisper.

čiji glas kada sam je upoznala nije bio iznad šapata.

She stood up,

Ona je ustala,

she found her voice,

pronašla svoj glas,

and my girl told them that she wanted justice,

i moja cura im je rekla da zahtijeva pravdu

and she got it.

i dobila ju je.

At the end of it all, the court unanimously agreed

Na kraju svega, sud je donio jednoglasnu odluku

that her in-laws should be arrested for what they did to her,

da se porodica njenog muža uhapsi zbog zlodjela prema njoj

her fucking brother should also be arrested

i njen prokleti brat isto uhapsi

for selling her —

jer ju je prodao...

(Applause) —

(Aplauz)

and they agreed that she did have a right

i složili su se da je imala pravo na

to civil compensation.

građansku naknadu.

What Sahar has shown us is that we can attack

Ono što nam je Sahar pokazala je da to da možemo da napadnemo

existing bad practices by using the laws

postojeće prakse služeći se zakonom

in the ways that they're intended to be used,

u svrhe u koje je on namijenjen

and by protecting Sahar,

i štiteći Sahar,

we are protecting ourselves.

štitimo i nas same.

After having worked in Afghanistan

Nakon svog šestogodišnjeg

for over six years now,

rada u Afganistanu

a lot of my family and friends think

mnogo mojih članova porodice i prijatelja misle

that what I do looks like this.

da ono što ja radim izgleda ovako.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But in all actuality, what I do looks like this.

U stvarnosti, ono što ja radim izgleda ovako.

Svi mi možemo da doprinesemo.

Now, we can all do something.

Ne kažem da bi svi mi trebali da sjednemo na avion do Afganistana,

I'm not saying we should all buy a plane ticket and go to Afghanistan,

but we can all be contributors

ali možemo doprinijeti

to a global human rights economy.

ekonomiji svjetskih ljudskih prava.

We can create a culture of transparency

Možemo stvoriti kulturu transparentnosti

and accountability to the laws,

i odgovornosti prema zakonima

and make governments more accountable to us,

i natjerati vlasti da budu odgovornije prema nama,

as we are to them.

kao što smo mi prema njima.

A few months ago, a South African lawyer

Prije nekoliko mjeseci, južnoafrički advokat

visited me in my office

me je posjetio u mojoj kancelariji

and he said, "I wanted to meet you.

i rekao mi: "Želio sam da te upoznam.

I wanted to see what a crazy person looked like."

Želio sam da vidim kako izgleda luda osoba."

The laws are ours,

Zakoni su naši

and no matter what your ethnicity,

i bez obzira na vašu etničku pripadnost,

nationality, gender, race,

nacionalnosti, roda, rase,

they belong to us,

oni pripadaju nama,

and fighting for justice is not an act of insanity.

i borba za pravdu nije čin ludosti.

Businesses also need to get with the program.

Kompanije isto trebaju da se uključe.

A corporate investment in human rights

Ulaganja korporacija u ljudska prava

is a capital gain on your businesses,

je dobit za vaše kompanije

and whether you're a business, an NGO,

i bili vi kompanija, NVO,

or a private citizen, rule of law benefits all of us.

ili građanin, vladavina zakona radi u korist svih nas.

And by working together with a concerted mindset,

Radeći zajedno, ujedinjenih namjera

through the people, public and private sector,

posredstvom ljudi, javnosti i privatnog sektora

we can create a global human rights economy

možemo da stvorimo ekonomiju globalnih ljudskih prava

and all become global investors in human rights.

i postanemo globalni ulagači u ljudska prava.

And by doing this,

Radeći to

we can achieve justness together.

zajedno možemo postići pravdu.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)