Behind the lies of Holocaust denial | Deborah Lipstadt

446,707 views ใƒป 2017-05-23

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ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุฃุฏู†ุงู‡ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ.

ุงู„ู…ุชุฑุฌู…: Mayssa Issaoui ุงู„ู…ุฏู‚ู‘ู‚: Salim Irangi
00:12
I come to you today to speak of liars,
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ู‚ุฏู…ุชู ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ู„ุฃุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ุงู„ูƒุฐู‘ุงุจูŠู†ุŒ
00:17
lawsuits
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ุงู„ุฏุนุงูˆูŠ ุงู„ู‚ุถุงุฆูŠุฉุŒ
00:18
and laughter.
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ูˆุงู„ุถุญูƒ.
00:20
The first time I heard about Holocaust denial,
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ุฃูˆู„ ู…ุฑุฉ ุณู…ุนุช ููŠู‡ุง ุนู† ู†ูƒุฑุงู† ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŒ
00:23
I laughed.
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ุถุญูƒุชู.
00:25
Holocaust denial?
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ู†ูƒุฑุงู† ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŸ
00:28
The Holocaust which has the dubious distinction
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ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชู…ูŠุฒุช ุจูƒูˆู†ู‡ุง
00:31
of being the best-documented genocide in the world?
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ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุญุงู„ุงุช ุงู„ุฅุจุงุฏุฉ ุงู„ุฌู…ุงุนูŠุฉ ุชูˆุซูŠู‚ุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู….
00:36
Who could believe it didn't happen?
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ู…ู† ู‚ุฏ ูŠุตุฏู‘ู‚ ุจุฃู†ู‘ู‡ุง ู„ู… ุชุญุฏุซุŸ
00:39
Think about it.
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ููƒุฑูˆุง ุจุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ.
00:42
For deniers to be right,
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ุญุชู‰ ูŠูƒูˆู† ุงู„ู…ุดูƒูƒูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุตูˆุงุจุŒ
00:44
who would have to be wrong?
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ู…ู† ู‡ู… ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุนู„ู‰ ุฎุทุฃุŸ
00:46
Well, first of all, the victims --
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ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฃูˆู„ุงู‹ุŒ ุงู„ุถุญุงูŠุง --
00:49
the survivors who have told us their harrowing stories.
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ุงู„ู†ุงุฌูˆู† ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุฃุฎุจุฑูˆู†ุง ู‚ุตุตู‡ู… ุงู„ู…ุฑูˆู‘ุนุฉ.
00:55
Who else would have to be wrong?
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ู…ู† ุบูŠุฑู‡ู… ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ุฎุทุฃู‹ุŸ
00:57
The bystanders.
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ุงู„ู…ุชูุฑุฌูˆู†.
00:59
The people who lived in the myriads of towns and villages and cities
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ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุนุงุดูˆุง ููŠ ุงู„ุจู„ุฏุงุช ูˆุงู„ู‚ุฑู‰ ูˆุงู„ู…ุฏู†
01:03
on the Eastern front,
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ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฌุจู‡ุฉ ุงู„ุดุฑู‚ูŠุฉุŒ
01:05
who watched their neighbors be rounded up --
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ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุดุงู‡ุฏูˆุง ุฌูŠุฑุงู†ู‡ู… ูˆู‡ู… ูŠูุฌู…ุนูˆู† --
01:08
men, women, children, young, old --
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ุฑุฌุงู„ุงู‹ุŒ ู†ุณุงุกู‹ุŒ ุฃุทูุงู„ุงู‹ุŒ ุดุจุงุจุงู‹ุŒ ูƒู‡ูˆู„ุงู‹ --
01:11
and be marched to the outskirts of the town
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ูˆูŠุณุงู‚ูˆู† ุฅู„ู‰ ุถูˆุงุญูŠ ุงู„ุจู„ุฏุฉ
01:14
to be shot and left dead in ditches.
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ู„ูŠุชู… ุฅุนุฏุงู…ู‡ู… ุจุงู„ุฑุตุงุต ูˆุชุฑูƒู‡ู… ู…ูˆุชู‰ ุฏุงุฎู„ ุงู„ุฎู†ุงุฏู‚.
01:17
Or the Poles,
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ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุจูˆู„ู†ุฏูŠูˆู†ุŒ
01:19
who lived in towns and villages around the death camps,
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ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุนุงุดูˆุง ููŠ ุงู„ุจู„ุฏุงุช ูˆุงู„ู‚ุฑู‰ ุญูˆู„ ู…ุนุณูƒุฑุงุช ุงู„ู…ูˆุชุŒ
01:23
who watched day after day
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุดุงู‡ุฏูˆุง ูŠูˆู…ูŠุงู‹
01:26
as the trains went in filled with people
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ุฏุฎูˆู„ ุงู„ู‚ุงุทุฑุงุช ุงู„ู…ู„ูŠุฆุฉ ุจุงู„ู†ุงุณ
01:29
and came out empty.
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ูˆุฎุฑูˆุฌู‡ุง ูุงุฑุบุฉ.
01:31
But above all, who would have to be wrong?
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู‚ุจู„ ูƒู„ ุดูŠุกุŒ ู…ู† ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุฎุทุฃุŸ
01:35
The perpetrators.
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ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฉ.
01:37
The people who say, "We did it.
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ู‡ุคู„ุงุก ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆู†: "ู†ุญู† ูุนู„ู†ุง ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐุง.
01:41
I did it."
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ุฃู†ุง ูุนู„ุช ู‡ุฐุง."
01:42
Now, maybe they add a caveat.
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ูˆุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ุฑุจู…ุง ูŠุถูŠููˆู† ุชูˆุถูŠุญุงู‹.
01:45
They say, "I didn't have a choice; I was forced to do it."
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ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆู†: " ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุฏูŠ ุฎูŠุงุฑุ› ู„ู‚ุฏ ุฃุฌุจุฑุช ุนู„ู‰ ูุนู„ ุฐู„ูƒ."
01:49
But nonetheless, they say, "I did it."
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ูˆู„ูƒู†ู‡ู… ุนู„ู‰ ุฃูŠ ุญุงู„ุŒ ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆู†: "ุฃู†ุง ูุนู„ุช ุฐู„ูƒ."
01:53
Think about it.
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ููƒุฑูˆุง ุจุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ.
01:55
In not one war crimes trial since the end of World War II
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ู„ู… ูŠุญุฏุซ ููŠ ุฃูŠ ู…ู† ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุงุช ุฌุฑุงุฆู… ุงู„ุญุฑุจ ู…ู†ุฐ ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ุญุฑุจ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุซุงู†ูŠุฉ
02:01
has a perpetrator of any nationality ever said, "It didn't happen."
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ุฃู† ู‚ุงู„ ุฌุงู†ู ู…ู† ุฃูŠ ุฌู†ุณูŠุฉ ุจุฃู†ู‡ุง "ู„ู… ุชุญุฏุซ."
02:08
Again, they may have said, "I was forced," but never that it didn't happen.
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ู…ุฌุฏุฏุงู‹ุŒ ุฑุจู…ุง ู‚ุงู„ูˆุง:" ู„ู‚ุฏ ุฃูุฌุจุฑุช"ุŒ ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ู… ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆุง ู‚ุท ุฃู†ู‡ุง ู„ู… ุชุญุฏุซ.
02:13
Having thought that through,
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ุจุนุฏ ุฃู† ููƒุฑุช ู…ู„ูŠุงู‹ ุจุงู„ุฃู…ุฑุŒ
02:15
I decided denial was not going to be on my agenda;
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ู‚ุฑุฑุช ุจุฃู† ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ ู„ู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ู† ุงุนุชุจุงุฑุงุชูŠุ›
02:18
I had bigger things to worry about, to write about, to research,
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ูƒุงู†ุช ู„ุฏูŠ ุฃู…ูˆุฑ ุฃู‡ู… ู„ุฃู‚ู„ู‚ ูˆุฃูƒุชุจ ูˆุฃุจุญุซ ุจู‡ุงุŒ
02:22
and I moved on.
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ูˆุชุงุจุนุช ู‚ุฏู…ุงู‹.
02:24
Fast-forward a little over a decade,
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ูˆุจุดูƒู„ ุณุฑูŠุน ุจุนุฏ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ุนู‚ุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุฒู…ู† ุจู‚ู„ูŠู„ุŒ
02:27
and two senior scholars --
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ุนุงู„ูู…ุงู† ูƒุจูŠุฑุงู† ุงุซู†ุงู† --
02:29
two of the most prominent historians of the Holocaust --
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ุงุซู†ุงู† ู…ู† ุฃุจุฑุฒ ุงู„ู…ุคุฑุฎูŠู† ุนู† ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ --
02:32
approached me and said,
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ู‚ุฏู…ูˆุง ุฅู„ูŠ ูˆู‚ุงู„ูˆุง:
02:33
"Deborah, let's have coffee.
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"ุฏูŠุจูˆุฑุงุŒ ู„ู†ุญุชุณูŠ ุงู„ู‚ู‡ูˆุฉ.
02:35
We have a research idea that we think is perfect for you."
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ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ููƒุฑุฉ ุจุญุซ ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุจุฃู†ู‡ุง ู…ุซุงู„ูŠุฉ ู„ูƒ."
02:39
Intrigued and flattered that they came to me with an idea
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ูุชู†ู†ูŠ ูˆุฃุจู‡ุฑู†ูŠ ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ู‚ุฏูˆู…ู‡ู…ุง ุฅู„ูŠ ู…ุน ููƒุฑุฉ
02:43
and thought me worthy of it,
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ุธู†ู‘ุง ุจุฃู†ู‡ุง ุชู†ุงุณุจู†ูŠ.
02:44
I asked, "What is it?"
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ุณุฃู„ุชู‡ู…:" ู…ุง ู‡ูŠุŸ"
02:47
And they said, "Holocaust denial."
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ู‚ุงู„ุง: "ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ."
02:51
And for the second time, I laughed.
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ูˆู„ู„ู…ุฑุฉ ุงู„ุซุงู†ูŠุฉ ุถุญูƒุช.
02:54
Holocaust denial?
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ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŸ
02:56
The Flat Earth folks?
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ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠุนุชู‚ุฏูˆู† ุฃู† ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ ู…ุณุทุญุฉุŸ
02:58
The Elvis-is-alive people?
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ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠุนุชู‚ุฏูˆู† ุฃู† ุฅู„ููŠุณ ู„ุง ูŠุฒุงู„ ุญูŠู‘ุงุŸ
03:00
I should study them?
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ู‡ู„ ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู‘ ุฏุฑุงุณุชู‡ู…ุŸ
03:03
And these two guys said,
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ู‚ุงู„ ู‡ุฐุงู† ุงู„ุดุฎุตุงู†:
03:04
"Yeah, we're intrigued.
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"ู†ุนู…ุŒ ู†ุญู† ู…ูุชูˆู†ูˆู†.
03:06
What are they about?
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ู…ุงุฐุง ุนู†ู‡ู…ุŸ
03:08
What's their objective?
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ู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ุบุฑุถู‡ู…ุŸ
03:10
How do they manage to get people to believe what they say?"
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ู…ุง ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู‚ูˆู…ูˆู† ุจู‡ ู„ูŠุฏูุนูˆุง ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุฅู„ู‰ ุชุตุฏูŠู‚ู‡ู…ุŸ"
03:14
So thinking, if they thought it was worthwhile,
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ุฅุฐุงู‹ ุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ุจุงุนุชู‚ุงุฏู‡ู… ุฃู† ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุฌุฏูŠุฑ ุจุงู„ุงู‡ุชู…ุงู…ุŒ
03:18
I would take a momentary diversion --
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ุณุฃุฎุฑุฌ ุนู† ุงู„ู…ูˆุถูˆุน ุจุดูƒู„ ุฎุงุทู --
03:21
maybe a year, maybe two, three, maybe even four --
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ุฑุจู…ุง ุณู†ุฉ ุŒูˆุฑุจู…ุง ุณู†ุชูŠู†ุŒ ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุฃูˆ ุญุชู‰ ุฃุฑุจุนุฉ --
03:24
in academic terms, that's momentary.
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ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุญูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฃูƒุงุฏูŠู…ูŠุฉุŒ ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฎุฑูˆุฌ ุงู„ุฎุงุทู.
03:26
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
03:27
We work very slowly.
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ู†ุญู† ู†ุนู…ู„ ุจุจุทุก.
03:30
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
03:31
And I would look at them.
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ูˆูƒู†ุช ู„ุฃูˆุฏู‘ ุฃู† ุฃู†ุธุฑ ุฅู„ูŠู‡ู….
03:33
So I did.
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ูุนู„ุช.
03:34
I did my research, and I came up with a number of things,
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ู‚ู…ุช ุจุงู„ุจุญุซุŒ ูˆูˆุตู„ุช ุฅู„ู‰ ุนุฏุฉ ุฃู…ูˆุฑุŒ
03:37
two of which I'd like to share with you today.
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ุฃูˆุฏู‘ ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซ ุนู† ุงุซู†ูŠู† ู…ู†ู‡ุง ู…ุนูƒู… ุงู„ูŠูˆู….
03:40
One:
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ุฃูˆู„ุงู‹:
03:41
deniers are wolves in sheep's clothing.
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ุงู„ู…ู†ูƒุฑูˆู† ู‡ู… ุฐุฆุงุจ ูŠุฑุชุฏูˆู† ู‚ู†ุงุน ุงู„ุฃุจุฑูŠุงุก.
03:47
They are the same: Nazis, neo-Nazis --
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ู‡ู… ุฐุงุชู‡ู… ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠูˆู† ูˆุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠูˆู† ุงู„ุฌุฏุฏ --
03:50
you can decide whether you want to put a "neo" there or not.
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ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุงู„ุฎูŠุงุฑ ููŠ ุฃู† ุชุถูŠู ูƒู„ู…ุฉ "ุฌุฏุฏ" ุฃูˆ ู„ุง ุชุถูŠูู‡ุง.
03:54
But when I looked at them,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุฃู…ุนู†ุช ุงู„ู†ุธุฑ ููŠู‡ู…ุŒ
03:56
I didn't see any SS-like uniforms,
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ู„ู… ุฃุฑู‡ู… ูŠุฑุชุฏูˆู† ุฒูŠู‘ ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠู‘ุฉุŒ
04:01
swastika-like symbols on the wall,
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ูˆู„ู… ุฃุดุงู‡ุฏ ุดุนุงุฑู‡ู… ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฌุฏุฑุงู†ุŒ
04:04
Sieg Heil salutes --
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ูˆู„ุง ุญุชู‰ ุชุญูŠู‘ุฉ ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠู‘ุฉ --
04:06
none of that.
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ู„ุง ุดูŠุก ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒ ูƒู„ู‡.
04:08
What I found instead
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ุจุฏู„ุงู‹ ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒ ูˆุฌุฏุช
04:11
were people parading as respectable academics.
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ุฃุดุฎุงุตุงู‹ ูŠุชุธุงู‡ุฑูˆู† ุจุฃู†ู‡ู… ุฃูƒุงุฏูŠู…ูŠูˆู† ู…ุญุชุฑู…ูˆู†.
04:16
What did they have?
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ู…ุงุฐุง ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู…ุŸ
04:17
They had an institute.
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ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู…ุนู‡ุฏ.
04:19
An "Institute for Historical Review."
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"ู…ุนู‡ุฏ ู„ู„ุงุณุชุนุฑุงุถ ุงู„ุชุงุฑูŠุฎูŠ."
04:24
They had a journal -- a slick journal --
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ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู…ุฌู„ู‘ุฉ ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ -- ู…ุฌู„ู‘ุฉ ู…ุจุชุฐู„ุฉ --
04:26
a "Journal of Historical Review."
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"ู…ุฌู„ุฉ ุงุณุชุนุฑุงุถ ุชุงุฑูŠุฎูŠ."
04:30
One filled with papers --
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ูˆุงุญุฏุฉ ู…ู„ูŠุฆุฉ ุจุงู„ุฃูˆุฑุงู‚ --
04:32
footnote-laden papers.
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ุฃูˆุฑุงู‚ ุฐุงุช ุญูˆุงุดูŠ.
04:35
And they had a new name.
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ูˆู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ุงุณู… ุฌุฏูŠุฏ.
04:38
Not neo-Nazis,
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ู„ูŠุณ ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠูˆู† ุงู„ุฌุฏุฏุŒ
04:40
not anti-Semites --
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ูˆู„ูŠุณ ุงู„ู…ุนุงุฏูˆู† ู„ู„ุณุงู…ูŠู‘ุฉ --
04:43
revisionists.
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ุงู„ู…ุตุญุญูˆู†.
04:44
They said, "We are revisionists.
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ูŠู‚ูˆู„ูˆู†:"ู†ุญู† ู…ุตุญุญูˆู†."
04:47
We are out to do one thing:
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ู†ุญู† ู‡ู†ุง ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุนู…ู„ ูˆุงุญุฏ:
04:49
to revise mistakes in history."
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ุชุตุญูŠุญ ุฃุฎุทุงุก ุงู„ุชุงุฑูŠุฎ."
04:54
But all you had to do was go one inch below the surface,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุนู„ูŠูƒ ูู‚ุท ุฃู† ุชุฑู‰ ู…ุง ุชุญุช ุงู„ูˆุงุฌู‡ุฉุŒ
04:59
and what did you find there?
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ูˆู…ุง ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุณุชุฌุฏู‡ุŸ
05:01
The same adulation of Hitler,
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ุชู…ู„ู‘ู‚ ู‡ูŠุชู„ุฑ ุฐุงุชู‡ุŒ
05:04
praise of the Third Reich,
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ุชู…ุฌูŠุฏ ุฃู„ู…ุงู†ูŠุง ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠุฉุŒ
05:05
anti-Semitism, racism, prejudice.
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ู…ุนุงุฏุงุฉ ุงู„ุณุงู…ูŠุฉุŒ ุงู„ุนู†ุตุฑูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชุญูŠุฒ.
05:09
This is what intrigued me.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ุฃุฐู‡ู„ู†ูŠ.
05:12
It was anti-Semitism, racism, prejudice, parading as rational discourse.
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ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุนุงุฏุงุฉ ุงู„ุณุงู…ูŠุฉุŒ ุงู„ุนู†ุตุฑูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชุญูŠู‘ุฒ ู‡ูˆ ู…ุง ูŠุชุฌู„ู‰ ูƒุฎุทุงุจ ุนู‚ู„ุงู†ูŠ.
05:20
The other thing I found --
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ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุงู„ุขุฎุฑ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูˆุฌุฏุชู‡ --
05:22
many of us have been taught to think there are facts and there are opinions --
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ุชุนู„ู… ู…ุนุธู…ู†ุง ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ุฃู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ ูˆู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุขุฑุงุก --
05:25
after studying deniers,
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ุจุนุฏ ุฏุฑุงุณุฉ ุงู„ู…ู†ูƒุฑูŠู†ุŒ
05:27
I think differently.
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ุจุฏุฃุช ุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ ุจุดูƒู„ ู…ุฎุชู„ู.
05:29
There are facts,
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ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ุŒ
05:30
there are opinions,
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ูˆู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุขุฑุงุกุŒ
05:32
and there are lies.
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ูˆู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูƒุงุฐูŠุจ.
05:34
And what deniers want to do is take their lies,
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ู…ุง ูŠุฑูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ู†ูƒุฑูˆู† ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุฃุฎุฐ ุฃูƒุงุฐูŠุจู‡ู…ุŒ
05:40
dress them up as opinions --
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ูˆุชู…ูˆูŠู‡ู‡ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุฃู†ู‡ุง ุขุฑุงุก --
05:42
maybe edgy opinions,
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ุฑุจู…ุง ุขุฑุงุก ุงู†ูุนุงู„ูŠุฉุŒ
05:44
maybe sort of out-of-the-box opinions --
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ูˆุฑุจู…ุง ุขุฑุงุก ุฎุงุฑุฌุฉ ุนู† ู†ุทุงู‚ ุงู„ู…ุฃู„ูˆู --
05:46
but then if they're opinions,
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ู„ูƒู† ุจู…ุง ุฃู†ู‡ุง ุฃุตุจุญุช ุขุฑุงุกู‹ุŒ
05:48
they should be part of the conversation.
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุฌุฒุกู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ู‚ุงุด.
05:50
And then they encroach on the facts.
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ุซู… ูŠุชุนุฏู‘ูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚.
05:55
I published my work --
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ู‚ู…ุช ุจู†ุดุฑ ุงุฌุชู‡ุงุฏูŠ --
05:56
the book was published,
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ุชู… ู†ุดุฑ ุงู„ูƒุชุงุจุŒ
05:57
"Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory,"
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"ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ: ุงู„ุงุนุชุฏุงุก ุงู„ู…ุชู†ุงู…ูŠ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ูˆุงู„ุฐุงูƒุฑุฉ"ุŒ
06:01
it came out in many different countries,
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ุธู‡ุฑ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ ููŠ ุจู„ุฏุงู† ุนุฏูŠุฏุฉุŒ ุจู…ุง ููŠู‡ุง
06:03
including here in Penguin UK,
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ู‡ู†ุงุŒ ุฏุงุฑ ู†ุดุฑ ุจูŠู†ุบูˆูŠู† - ุงู„ู…ู…ู„ูƒุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉุŒ
06:05
and I was done with those folks and ready to move on.
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ูˆูƒู†ุช ู‚ุฏ ุงู†ุชู‡ูŠุช ู…ู† ู‡ุคู„ุงุก ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ูˆุฌุงู‡ุฒุฉ ู„ู„ู…ุถูŠู‘ ู‚ุฏู…ุงู‹.
06:09
Then came the letter from Penguin UK.
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ุฅู„ุง ุฃู† ูˆุตู„ุชู†ูŠ ุฑุณุงู„ุฉ ู…ู† ุจูŠู†ุบูˆูŠู† ุงู„ู…ู…ู„ูƒุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉ.
06:14
And for the third time, I laughed ...
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ูˆู„ู„ู…ุฑุฉ ุงู„ุซุงู„ุซุฉุŒ ุถุญูƒุช ...
06:18
mistakenly.
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ุนู† ุทุฑูŠู‚ ุงู„ุฎุทุฃ.
06:20
I opened the letter,
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ูุชุญุช ุงู„ุฑุณุงู„ุฉุŒ
06:22
and it informed me that David Irving was bringing a libel suit against me
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ุฃุจู„ุบุชู†ูŠ ุฃู† ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅุจุฑููŠู†ุบ ูƒุงู† ุฑูุน ุถุฏู‘ูŠ ุฏุนูˆู‰ ุชุดู‡ูŠุฑ
06:28
in the United Kingdom
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ููŠ ุงู„ู…ู…ู„ูƒุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉ
06:30
for calling him a Holocaust denier.
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ู„ู†ุนุชู‡ ุจุตูุฉ ู†ุงูƒุฑ ู„ู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ.
06:33
David Irving suing me?
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ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅูŠุฑููŠู†ุบ ูŠู‚ุงุถูŠู†ูŠุŸ
06:35
Who was David Irving?
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ู…ู† ู‡ูˆ ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅูŠุฑููŠู†ุบุŸ
06:36
David Irving was a writer of historical works,
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ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅูŠุฑููŠู†ุบ ูƒุงู† ูƒุงุชุจ ุฃุนู…ุงู„ ุชุงุฑูŠุฎูŠู‘ุฉุŒ
06:39
most of them about World War II,
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ุฃุบู„ุจู‡ุง ูƒุงู† ุนู† ุงู„ุญุฑุจ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุซุงู†ูŠุฉุŒ
06:41
and virtually all of those works took the position
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ูˆุชู‚ุฑูŠุจุงู‹ ูƒู„ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฃุนู…ุงู„ ุงุชุฎุฐุช ู…ูˆู‚ูุงู‹
06:44
that the Nazis were really not so bad,
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ุฃู† ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠูŠู† ู„ู… ูŠูƒูˆู†ูˆุง ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุณูˆุกุŒ
06:48
and the Allies were really not so good.
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ูˆุงู„ุญู„ูุงุก ู„ู… ูŠูƒูˆู†ูˆุง ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุทูŠุจุฉ.
06:51
And the Jews, whatever happened to them,
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ุฃู…ู‘ุง ุงู„ูŠู‡ูˆุฏุŒ ู…ู‡ู…ุง ุญุฏุซ ู„ู‡ู…ุŒ
06:53
they sort of deserved it.
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ุงุณุชุญู‚ูˆุง ุฐู„ูƒ ุฅู„ู‰ ุญุฏ ู…ุง.
06:56
He knew the documents,
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ูƒุงู† ูŠุนุฑู ุงู„ูˆุซุงุฆู‚ุŒ
06:57
he knew the facts,
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ูˆูŠุนุฑู ุงู„ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ุŒ
06:59
but he somehow twisted them to get this opinion.
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ูˆู„ูƒู†ู‡ ุญุฑู‘ูู‡ุง ู„ูŠุตู„ ุฅู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฑุฃูŠ.
07:02
He hadn't always been a Holocaust denier,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‡ูˆ ุฏูˆู…ุงู‹ ู…ู† ู†ุงูƒุฑูŠ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŒ
07:05
but in the late '80s,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ููŠ ุฃูˆุงุฎุฑ ุงู„ุซู…ุงู†ูŠู†ุงุชุŒ
07:07
he embraced it with great vigor.
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ุชุจู†ุงู‡ุง ุจู‚ูˆุฉ.
07:11
The reason I laughed also was this was a man
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ุณุจุจ ุขุฎุฑ ู„ุถุญูƒูŠ ู‡ูˆ ุฃู†ู‘ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุดุฎุต
07:15
who not only was a Holocaust denier,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ูู‚ุท ู†ุงูƒุฑุงู‹ ู„ู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŒ
07:17
but seemed quite proud of it.
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ูˆู„ูƒู†ู‡ ุจุฏุง ูุฎูˆุฑุงู‹ ุญู‚ุงู‹ ุจูƒูˆู†ู‡ ูƒุฐู„ูƒ.
07:18
Here was a man -- and I quote --
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฑุฌู„ -- ูˆุฃู†ุง ุฃู‚ุชุจุณ --
07:20
who said, "I'm going to sink the battleship Auschwitz."
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ู‚ุงู„: "ุณุฃู‚ูˆู… ุจุฅุบุฑุงู‚ ุงู„ุจุงุฑุฌุฉ ุฃูˆุดููŠุชุฒ."
07:25
Here was a man
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฑุฌู„
07:26
who pointed to the number tattooed on a survivor's arm and said,
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ุฃุดุงุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฑู‚ู… ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูˆุดู… ุนู„ู‰ ุฐุฑุงุน ุฃุญุฏ ุงู„ู†ุงุฌูŠู† ูˆู‚ุงู„:
07:31
"How much money have you made
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"ูƒู… ุฌู†ูŠุช ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุงู„
07:33
from having that number tattooed on your arm?"
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ู…ู‚ุงุจู„ ูˆุฌูˆุฏ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฑู‚ู… ุนู„ู‰ ุฐุฑุงุนูƒุŸ"
07:37
Here was a man who said,
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฑุฌู„ ู‚ุงู„:
07:39
"More people died in Senator Kennedy's car
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"ู‚ุชู„ ุฃุดุฎุงุต ููŠ ุณูŠุงุฑุฉ ุงู„ุณูŠู†ุงุชูˆุฑ ูƒูŠู†ูŠุฏูŠ
07:42
at Chappaquiddick
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ููŠ ุชุดุงุจุงูƒูˆูŠุฏูŠูƒ
07:43
than died in gas chambers at Auschwitz."
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ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ุฃูˆู„ุฆูƒ ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ู…ุงุชูˆุง ููŠ ุญุฌุฑุฉ ุงู„ุบุงุฒ ููŠ ุฃูˆุดููŠุชุฒ."
07:46
That's an American reference, but you can look it up.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุฑุฌุน ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒูŠุŒ ูˆู„ูƒู† ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒู… ุงู„ุจุญุซ ุนู†ู‡.
07:51
This was not a man who seemed at all ashamed or reticent
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ูŠุจุฏูˆ ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุดุฎุต ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠุดุนุฑ ุจุงู„ุฎุฌู„ ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุชุญูู‘ุธ
07:54
about being a Holocaust denier.
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ุญูŠุงู„ ูƒูˆู†ู‡ ู…ู†ูƒุฑุงู‹ ู„ู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ.
07:56
Now, lots of my academic colleagues counseled me --
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ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ ุงู„ูƒุซูŠุฑ ู…ู† ุฒู…ู„ุงุฆูŠ ุงู„ุฃูƒุงุฏูŠู…ูŠูŠู† ู†ุตุญูˆู†ูŠ --
08:00
"Eh, Deborah, just ignore it."
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"ุฏูŠุจูˆุฑุงุŒ ุชุฌุงู‡ู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ."
08:02
When I explained you can't just ignore a libel suit,
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุดุฑุญุช ู„ู‡ู… ุฃู†ูƒ ู„ุง ุชุณุชุทูŠุน ุจุจุณุงุทุฉ ุชุฌุงู‡ู„ ุฏุนูˆู‰ ุชุดู‡ูŠุฑุŒ
08:06
they said, "Who's going to believe him anyway?"
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ูƒุงู† ุฑุฏู‘ู‡ู…: "ู…ู† ุณูŠุตุฏู‚ู‡ ุนู„ู‰ ุฃูŠู‘ุฉ ุญุงู„ุŸ"
08:09
But here was the problem:
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ุชูƒู…ู† ู‡ู†ุง:
08:11
British law put the onus, put the burden of proof on me
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ูˆุถุน ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ุงู„ุจุฑูŠุทุงู†ูŠ ุนุจุก ุงู„ุฅุซุจุงุช ุนู„ูŠู‘ ุฃู†ุง
08:17
to prove the truth of what I said,
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ู„ุฃุซุจุช ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ู…ุง ู‚ู„ุชุŒ
08:19
in contrast to as it would have been in the United States
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ุนู„ู‰ ู†ู‚ูŠุถ ู…ุง ูƒุงู† ู„ูŠุฌุฑูŠ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ูˆู„ุงูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุชุญุฏุฉ
08:22
and in many other countries:
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ูˆููŠ ุงู„ุนุฏูŠุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุจู„ุงุฏ ุงู„ุฃุฎุฑู‰:
08:24
on him to prove the falsehood.
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ุนู„ูŠู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุฃู† ูŠุซุจุช ุงู„ุจุงุทู„.
08:27
What did that mean?
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ู…ุงุฐุง ูŠุนู†ูŠ ู‡ุฐุงุŸ
08:29
That meant if I didn't fight,
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ู‡ุฐุง ูŠุนู†ูŠ ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ุฅู† ู„ู… ุฃู‚ุงูˆู…ุŒ
08:32
he would win by default.
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ุณูŠู†ุชุตุฑ ู‡ูˆ ุชู„ู‚ุงุฆูŠุงู‹.
08:35
And if he won by default,
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ูˆุฅุฐุง ุงู†ุชุตุฑ ุชู„ู‚ุงุฆูŠุงู‹ุŒ
08:37
he could then legitimately say,
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ูŠู…ูƒู†ู‡ ุฃู† ูŠู‚ูˆู„ ุญูŠู†ู‡ุง ูˆุจุดูƒู„ ุดุฑุนูŠุŒ
08:40
"My David Irving version of the Holocaust is a legitimate version.
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"ู†ุณุฎุฉ ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅูŠุฑููŠู†ุบ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ ู‡ูŠ ู†ุณุฎุฉ ุดุฑุนูŠุฉ.
08:45
Deborah Lipstadt was found to have libeled me
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ุฃุซุจุช ุงู„ู‚ุถุงุก ุฃู†ู‘ ุฏูŠุจูˆุฑุง ู„ูŠุจุณุชุงุฏุช ุดู‡ุฑุช ุจุดุฎุตูŠ
08:47
when she called me a Holocaust denier.
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู†ุนุชุชู†ูŠ ุจุงู„ู†ุงูƒุฑ ู„ู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ.
08:49
Ipso facto, I, David Irving, am not a Holocaust denier."
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ูˆุฃุซุจุชุช ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ู„ุณุช ู†ุงูƒุฑุงู‹ ู„ู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ."
08:54
And what is that version?
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ูˆู…ุง ู‡ูŠ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ู†ุณุฎุฉุŸ
08:56
There was no plan to murder the Jews,
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ู„ู… ุชูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูŠู‘ ุฎุทู‘ุฉ ู„ู‚ุชู„ ุงู„ูŠู‡ูˆุฏุŒ
08:59
there were no gas chambers,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูŠู‘ ุญุฌุฑุงุช ุบุงุฒุŒ
09:01
there were no mass shootings,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุฃูŠู‘ ู‚ุชู„ ุฌู…ุงุนูŠุŒ
09:03
Hitler had nothing to do with any suffering that went on,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ู‡ูŠุชู„ุฑ ุฃูŠู‘ ุตู„ุฉ ุจุฃูŠู‘ุฉ ู…ุนุงู†ุงุฉ ุญุฏุซุช ุญูŠู†ู‡ุงุŒ
09:06
and the Jews have made this all up
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ูˆู‚ุฏ ุงุฎุชู„ู‚ ุงู„ูŠู‡ูˆุฏ ูƒู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃูƒุงุฐูŠุจ
09:10
to get money from Germany
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ู„ู„ุญุตูˆู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุงู„ ู…ู† ุฃู„ู…ุงู†ูŠุง
09:12
and to get a state,
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ูˆู„ู„ุญุตูˆู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุฏูˆู„ุฉุŒ
09:14
and they've done it with the aid and abettance of the Allies --
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ูˆู‚ุงู…ูˆุง ุจุฐู„ูƒ ุจู…ุณุงุนุฏุฉ ูˆุชุญุฑูŠุถ ู…ู† ุงู„ุญู„ูุงุก --
09:17
they've planted the documents and planted the evidence.
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ู‚ุงู…ูˆุง ุจุฏุณู‘ ุงู„ูˆุซุงุฆู‚ ูˆุงู„ุฏู„ุงุฆู„.
09:22
I couldn't let that stand
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ู„ู… ุฃุณุชุทุน ุงู„ุฎุถูˆุน ู„ุฐู„ูƒ
09:24
and ever face a survivor
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ูˆู…ูˆุงุฌู‡ุฉ ุฃุญุฏ ุงู„ู†ุงุฌูŠู†
09:27
or a child of survivors.
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ุฃูˆ ุทูู„ ุฃุญุฏ ุงู„ู†ุงุฌูŠู†.
09:29
I couldn't let that stand
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ู„ู… ุฃุณุชุทุน ุงู„ุฎุถูˆุน ู„ุฐู„ูƒ
09:31
and consider myself a responsible historian.
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ูˆุฃู†ุง ุฃุนุชุจุฑ ู†ูุณูŠ ู…ุคุฑุฎุฉ ู…ุณุคูˆู„ุฉ.
09:37
So we fought.
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุชูˆุงุฌู‡ู†ุง.
09:38
And for those of you who haven't seen "Denial,"
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ูˆุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ู„ุฐูŠู† ู„ู… ูŠุดุงู‡ุฏูˆุง ููŠู„ู… "ุงู„ู†ูƒุฑุงู†"ุŒ
09:41
spoiler alert:
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ุณุฃุญุฑู‚ ุงู„ุฃุญุฏุงุซ:
09:42
we won.
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ุงู†ุชุตุฑู†ุง.
09:43
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
09:44
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
09:51
The judge found David Irving
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ูˆุฌุฏ ุงู„ู‚ุงุถูŠ ุฅู† ุฏูŠููŠุฏ ุฅูŠุฑููŠู†ุบ
09:56
to be a liar,
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ูƒุงู† ูƒุงุฐุจุงู‹ุŒ
09:59
a racist,
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ุนู†ุตุฑูŠุงู‹ุŒ
10:00
an anti-Semite.
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ูˆู…ุนุงุฏูŠุงู‹ ู„ู„ุณุงู…ูŠู‘ุฉ.
10:01
His view of history was tendentious,
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ูˆูƒุงู† ุนุฑุถู‡ ู„ู„ุชุงุฑูŠุฎ ู…ุบุฑุถุงู‹ุŒ
10:04
he lied, he distorted --
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ู„ู‚ุฏ ูƒุฐุจุŒ ูˆุดูˆู‘ู‡ --
10:06
and most importantly,
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ูˆุงู„ุฃู‡ู… ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
10:08
he did it deliberately.
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ู‚ุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒ ุนู† ู‚ุตุฏ.
10:11
We showed a pattern, in over 25 different major instances.
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ุฃุธู‡ุฑู†ุง ู†ู…ุทู‹ุงุŒ ููŠ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† 25 ุญุงู„ุฉ ุฑุฆูŠุณูŠุฉ ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ.
10:15
Not small things -- many of us in this audience write books,
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ู„ูŠุณุช ุญุงู„ุงุช ุจุณูŠุทุฉ -- ูƒุซูŠุฑ ู…ู†ู‘ุง ููŠ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฌู…ู‡ูˆุฑ ูŠุคู„ู ูƒุชุจุŒ
10:18
are writing books;
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ูŠูƒุชุจูˆู† ุงู„ูƒุชุจุ›
10:19
we always make mistakes, that's why we're glad to have second editions:
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ู†ุญู† ุฏุงุฆู…ู‹ุง ู†ุฑุชูƒุจ ุฃุฎุทุงุกุŒ ูˆู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุณุจุจ ุณุนุงุฏุชู†ุง ุญูŠู† ู†ุญุธู‰ ุจุทุจุนุงุช ุซุงู†ูŠุฉ.
10:23
correct the mistakes.
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ู„ู†ุตุญุญ ุงู„ุฃุฎุทุงุก.
10:24
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
10:26
But these always moved in the same direction:
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ุทุงู„ู…ุง ุงุชุฎุฐุช ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุณุฃู„ุฉ ุงู„ุงุชุฌุงู‡ ุฐุงุชู‡:
10:30
blame the Jews,
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ูˆู‡ูˆ ูˆุถุน ุงู„ู„ูˆู… ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูŠู‡ูˆุฏุŒ
10:32
exonerate the Nazis.
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ูˆุชุจุฑุฆุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‘ุงุฒูŠูŠู†.
10:35
But how did we win?
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ู„ูƒู† ูƒูŠู ุงู†ุชุตุฑู†ุงุŸ
10:38
What we did is follow his footnotes back to his sources.
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ู…ุง ูุนู„ู†ุงู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุงุชุจุงุน ุญูˆุงุดูŠู‡ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ุตุงุฏุฑู‡.
10:44
And what did we find?
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ูˆู…ุงุฐุง ูˆุฌุฏู†ุงุŸ
10:45
Not in most cases,
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ู„ูŠุณ ููŠ ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ุญุงู„ุงุชุŒ
10:47
and not in the preponderance of cases,
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ูˆู„ูŠุณ ููŠ ุฃุบู„ุจ ุงู„ุญุงู„ุงุชุŒ
10:49
but in every single instance where he made some reference to the Holocaust,
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ููŠ ูƒู„ ุญุงู„ุฉ ู…ู†ูุฑุฏุฉ ุฃุดุงุฑ ููŠู‡ุง ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉุŒ
10:53
that his supposed evidence was distorted,
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ุฃู†ู‘ ุฃุฏู„ุชู‡ ุงู„ู…ูุชุฑุถุฉ ู…ุดูˆู‡ุฉุŒ
10:57
half-truth,
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ุฃู†ุตุงู ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ุŒ
10:59
date-changed,
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ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ุชูˆุงุฑูŠุฎุŒ
11:00
sequence-changed,
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ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ููŠ ุชุณู„ุณู„ ุงู„ุฃุญุฏุงุซุŒ
11:02
someone put at a meeting who wasn't there.
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ุดุฎุต ูŠุญุถุฑ ุงุฌุชู…ุงุนุงู‹ ูˆู‡ูˆ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ.
11:05
In other words, he didn't have the evidence.
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ุจุนุจุงุฑุฉ ุฃุฎุฑู‰ุŒ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ูŠู…ู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฏู„ูŠู„.
11:07
His evidence didn't prove it.
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ูˆุฏู„ูŠู„ู‡ ู„ู… ูŠุซุจุช ุฐู„ูƒ.
11:09
We didn't prove what happened.
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ู„ู… ู†ุซุจุช ู…ุง ุญุฏุซ.
11:13
We proved that what he said happened --
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ุฃุซุจุชู†ุง ุจุฃู† ู…ุง ุตุฑุญ ุจุฃู†ู‘ู‡ ู‚ุฏ ุญุฏุซ --
11:15
and by extension, all deniers, because he either quotes them
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ูˆูƒุฐู„ูƒ ู…ุง ุตุฑุญ ุจู‡ ูƒู„ ุงู„ู…ู†ูƒุฑูŠู†ุŒ ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ุฅู…ุง ูŠู‚ูˆู… ุจุงู„ุงู‚ุชุจุงุณ ู…ู†ู‡ู…
11:18
or they get their arguments from him --
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ุฃูˆ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ูŠุญุตู„ูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุญุฌุฌู‡ู… ู…ู†ู‡ --
11:21
is not true.
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ู‡ูˆ ุจุงุทู„.
11:22
What they claim --
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุฏู‘ุนูˆู†ู‡ --
11:23
they don't have the evidence to prove it.
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ู„ุง ุฏู„ูŠู„ ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู„ูŠุซุจุชูˆู‡.
11:28
So why is my story more than just the story
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ุฅุฐุงู‹ ู„ู…ุง ุชุนุชุจุฑ ู‚ุตู‘ุชูŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ูƒูˆู†ู‡ุง ู‚ุตุฉ
11:33
of a quirky, long, six-year, difficult lawsuit,
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ุฏุนูˆู‰ ู‚ุถุงุฆูŠุฉ ู…ู„ุชูˆูŠุฉุŒ ุทูˆูŠู„ุฉุŒ ูˆุตุนุจุฉ ุงู…ุชุฏุช ู„ุณุช ุณู†ูˆุงุชุŒ
11:37
an American professor being dragged into a courtroom
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ุฃุณุชุงุฐุฉ ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒูŠุฉ ุฃุญุถุฑุช ุฅู„ู‰ ู‚ุงุนุฉ ุงู„ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ
11:42
by a man that the court declared in its judgment
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ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ุฑุฌู„ ุฃุนู„ู†ุช ุงู„ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุญูƒู…ู‡ุง ุจุฃู†ู‡
11:45
was a neo-Nazi polemicist?
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ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุฌุงุฏู„ูŠู† ุงู„ู†ุงุฒูŠูŠู† ุงู„ุฌุฏุฏุŸ
11:47
What message does it have?
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ู…ุง ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ุฑุณุงู„ุฉ ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒุŸ
11:49
I think in the context of the question of truth,
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ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู†ู‘ู‡ ูˆููŠ ุณูŠุงู‚ ุงู„ุชุณุงุคู„ ุนู† ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉุŒ
11:52
it has a very significant message.
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ูƒุงู†ุช ุงู„ุฑุณุงู„ุฉ ู‡ุงู…ุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹.
11:55
Because today,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‘ู‡ ุงู„ูŠูˆู…ุŒ
11:56
as we well know,
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ูƒู…ุง ู†ุนู„ู… ุฌูŠุฏุงู‹ุŒ
11:58
truth and facts are under assault.
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ุชุชุนุฑุถ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ูˆุงู„ูˆู‚ุงุฆุน ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุงุนุชุฏุงุก.
12:03
Social media, for all the gifts it has given us,
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ูˆุณุงุฆู„ ุงู„ุชูˆุงุตู„ ุงู„ุงุฌุชู…ุงุนูŠุŒ ุฑุบู… ูƒู„ ุงู„ู…ู†ูุนุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชู‚ุฏู‘ู…ู‡ุง ู„ู†ุงุŒ
12:06
has also allowed the difference between facts -- established facts --
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ุณู…ุญุช ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ุจุฌุนู„ ุงู„ุงุฎุชู„ุงู ุจูŠู† ุงู„ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ -- ุงู„ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ ุงู„ู…ูˆุซู‚ุฉ --
12:12
and lies
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ูˆุงู„ุฃูƒุงุฐูŠุจ
12:14
to be flattened.
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ุถุนูŠูุงู‹.
12:16
Third of all:
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ุซุงู„ุซุงู‹:
12:18
extremism.
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ุงู„ุชุทุฑู‘ู.
12:20
You may not see Ku Klux Klan robes,
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ู‚ุฏ ู„ุง ุชุดุงู‡ุฏูˆู† ุซูŠุงุจ ุญุฑูƒุฉ "KKK"ุŒ
12:24
you may not see burning crosses,
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ูˆู‚ุฏ ู„ุง ุชุดุงู‡ุฏูˆู† ุตู„ุจุงู†ุงู‹ ุชุญุชุฑู‚ุŒ
12:26
you may not even hear outright white supremacist language.
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ู‚ุฏ ู„ุง ุชุณู…ุน ุญุชู‰ ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุตุฑูŠุญุฉ ู„ู…ุฏู‘ุนูŠ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุฏุฉ ู„ู„ุนุฑู‚ ุงู„ุฃุจูŠุถ.
12:30
It may go by names: "alt-right," "National Front" -- pick your names.
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ูŠุชุจู†ูˆุง ุฃุณู…ุงุก ู…ุซู„ "ุงู„ูŠู…ูŠู† ุงู„ุจุฏูŠู„"ุŒ "ุงู„ุฌุจู‡ุฉ ุงู„ูˆุทู†ูŠุฉ" -- ุงุฎุชุฑ ู…ุง ุดุฆุช.
12:35
But underneath, it's that same extremism that I found in Holocaust denial
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุถู…ู†ูŠู‘ุงู‹ุŒ ู‡ูˆ ุฐุงุช ุงู„ุชุทุฑู‘ู ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูˆุฌุฏุชูู‡ ููŠ ู†ูƒุฑุงู† ุงู„ู…ุญุฑู‚ุฉ
12:41
parading as rational discourse.
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ุงู„ู…ุชุฎููŠ ุชุญุช ุณุชุงุฑ ุงู„ุฎุทุงุจ ุงู„ุนู‚ู„ุงู†ูŠ.
12:46
We live in an age where truth is on the defensive.
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ู†ุญู† ู†ุนูŠุด ููŠ ุนุตุฑ ุญูŠุซ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ููŠ ุฏูˆุฑ ุงู„ุฏูุงุน.
12:52
I'm reminded of a New Yorker cartoon.
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ุชุฐูƒุฑุช ุฑุณู…ุงู‹ ูƒุฑุชูˆู†ูŠุงู‹ ููŠ ุตุญูŠูุฉ ุงู„ู†ูŠูˆูŠูˆุฑูƒุฑ.
12:54
A quiz show recently appeared in "The New Yorker"
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ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ู…ุณุงุจู‚ุงุช ุธู‡ุฑ ููŠ "ุงู„ู†ูŠูˆูŠูˆุฑูƒุฑ"
12:57
where the host of the quiz show is saying to one of the contestants,
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ุญูŠุซ ูŠู‚ูˆู„ ู…ู‚ุฏู… ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ู„ุฃุญุฏ ุงู„ู…ุชุณุงุจู‚ูŠู†ุŒ
13:00
"Yes, ma'am, you had the right answer.
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"ู†ุนู…ุŒ ุณูŠุฏุชูŠุŒ ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุงู„ุฅุฌุงุจุฉ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญุฉ.
13:02
But your opponent yelled more loudly than you did,
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ูˆ ู„ูƒู† ุฎุตู…ูƒ ุตุฑุฎ ุจุดูƒู„ ุฃู‚ูˆู‰ ู…ู†ูƒุŒ
13:05
so he gets the point."
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ูˆ ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุณูŠุญุตู„ ู‡ูˆ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุทุฉ."
13:08
What can we do?
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ู…ุงุฐุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ูุนู„ุŸ
13:10
First of all,
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ุฃูˆู„ุง ูˆ ู‚ุจู„ ูƒู„ ุดูŠุกุŒ
13:11
we cannot be beguiled by rational appearances.
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ู„ุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ุฎุฏุน ุจุงู„ู…ุธุงู‡ุฑ ุงู„ุนู‚ู„ุงู†ูŠุฉ.
13:17
We've got to look underneath,
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ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ู†ุธุฑ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฃุณูู„ุŒ
13:19
and we will find there the extremism.
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ูˆ ุณู†ุฌุฏ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุงู„ุชุทุฑู.
13:22
Second of all,
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ุซุงู†ูŠุงู‹ุŒ
13:24
we must understand that truth is not relative.
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ูู‡ู… ุฃู† ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ู„ูŠุณุช ู†ุณุจูŠุฉ.
13:32
Number three,
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ุซุงู„ุซุงู‹ุŒ
13:34
we must go on the offensive,
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ุฐู‡ุจ ุฅู„ู‰ ูˆุถุนูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‡ุฌูˆู…ุŒ
13:38
not the defensive.
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ูˆ ู„ูŠุณ ูˆุถุนูŠุฉ ุงู„ุฏูุงุน.
13:40
When someone makes an outrageous claim,
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูŠุตุฑุญ ุดุฎุต ุจุชุตุฑูŠุญ ู…ุนูŠุจุŒ
13:43
even though they may hold one of the highest offices in the land,
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ุญุชู‰ ูˆ ู„ูˆ ูƒุงู† ูŠุณุชู„ู… ุฃุญุฏ ุฃุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ู†ุงุตุจ ููŠ ุงู„ู…ู†ุทู‚ุฉุŒ
13:46
if not the world --
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ุฅู† ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู… --
13:48
we must say to them,
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ู‚ูˆู„ ู„ู‡ู…:
13:50
"Where's the proof?
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"ุฃูŠู† ุงู„ุจุฑู‡ุงู†ุŸ
13:52
Where's the evidence?"
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ุฃูŠู† ุงู„ุฏู„ูŠู„ุŸ"
13:54
We must hold their feet to the fire.
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ุฑุจูƒู‡ู….
13:57
We must not treat it as if their lies are the same as the facts.
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ู„ุง ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ุนุงู…ู„ู‡ู… ูˆูƒุฃู† ุฃูƒุงุฐูŠุจู‡ู… ู‡ูŠ ูˆู‚ุงุฆุน.
14:03
And as I said earlier, truth is not relative.
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ูˆ ูƒู…ุง ู‚ู„ุช ุณุงุจู‚ุงุŒ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ู„ูŠุณุช ู†ุณุจูŠุฉ.
14:06
Many of us have grown up in the world of the academy
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ุงู„ุนุฏูŠุฏ ู…ู†ุง ู‚ุฏ ูƒุจุฑูˆุง ููŠ ุนุงู„ู… ุงู„ุฃูƒุงุฏูŠู…ูŠุฉ
14:09
and enlightened liberal thought,
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ูˆ ู…ู†ุงุฑูˆู† ุจุงู„ููƒุฑ ุงู„ุญุฑุŒ
14:11
where we're taught everything is open to debate.
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ุญูŠุซ ุชุนู„ู…ู†ุง ุงู† ูƒู„ ุดูŠุก ู‚ุงุจู„ ู„ู„ู†ู‚ุงุด.
14:14
But that's not the case.
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ูˆ ู„ูƒู† ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒ.
14:17
There are certain things that are true.
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ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฃู…ูˆุฑ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญุฉ.
14:21
There are indisputable facts --
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ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ ุบูŠุฑ ู‚ุงุจู„ุฉ ู„ู„ู†ู‚ุงุด --
14:24
objective truths.
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ุญู‚ุงุฆู‚ ู…ูˆุถูˆุนูŠุฉ.
14:26
Galileo taught it to us centuries ago.
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ุบุงู„ูŠู„ูŠูˆ ุนู„ู‘ู…ู†ุง ุฅูŠุงู‡ุง ู‚ุฑูˆู†ุงู‹ ุฎูŽู„ุช.
14:31
Even after being forced to recant by the Vatican
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ุญุชู‰ ุจุนุฏ ุฅุฌุจุงุฑู‡ ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ูุงุชูŠูƒุงู†
14:35
that the Earth moved around the Sun,
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ุนู„ู‰ ุฅู†ูƒุงุฑ ุฃู† ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ ุชุฏูˆุฑ ุญูˆู„ ุงู„ุดู…ุณุŒ
14:38
he came out,
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ุฃุฎู„ูŠ ุณุจูŠู„ู‡ุŒ
14:39
and what is he reported to have said?
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ูˆ ู…ุงุฐุง ุดูŠุน ุนู†ู‡ ุฃู†ู‡ ู‚ุฏ ู‚ุงู„ุŸ
14:41
"And yet, it still moves."
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" ูˆุฑุบู… ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ุฅู†ู‡ุง ุชุชุญุฑูƒ."
14:47
The Earth is not flat.
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ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ ู„ูŠุณุช ู…ุณุทุญุฉ.
14:50
The climate is changing.
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ุงู„ู…ู†ุงุฎ ูŠุชุบูŠุฑ.
14:53
Elvis is not alive.
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ุฅู„ููŠุณ ู„ูŠุณ ุญูŠุงู‹.
14:55
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
14:57
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
14:59
And most importantly,
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ูˆุงู„ุฃู‡ู… ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
15:01
truth and fact are under assault.
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ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ูˆุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน ูŠุชุนุฑุถุงู† ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุงุนุชุฏุงุก.
15:07
The job ahead of us,
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ุงู„ุนู…ู„ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู†ุชุธุฑู†ุงุŒ
15:08
the task ahead of us,
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ุงู„ู…ู‡ู…ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชู†ุชุธุฑู†ุงุŒ
15:09
the challenge ahead of us
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ุงู„ุชุญุฏูŠ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู†ุชุธุฑู†ุง
15:11
is great.
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ูƒุจูŠุฑ.
15:13
The time to fight is short.
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ูˆู‚ุช ุงู„ู…ุฌุงุจู‡ุฉ ู‚ุตูŠุฑ.
15:17
We must act now.
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ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุงู„ุชุตุฑู ุงู„ุขู†.
15:20
Later will be too late.
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ูˆุฅู„ู‘ุง ุณูŠููˆุช ุงู„ุฃูˆุงู†.
15:24
Thank you very much.
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ุฃุดูƒุฑูƒู… ุฌุฒูŠู„ ุงู„ุดูƒุฑ.
15:25
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
ุญูˆู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน

ุณูŠู‚ุฏู… ู„ูƒ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน ู…ู‚ุงุทุน ููŠุฏูŠูˆ YouTube ุงู„ู…ููŠุฏุฉ ู„ุชุนู„ู… ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ. ุณุชุฑู‰ ุฏุฑูˆุณ ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุชู… ุชุฏุฑูŠุณู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู…ุฏุฑุณูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ู…ู† ุฌู…ูŠุน ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…. ุงู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุนุฑูˆุถุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ูƒู„ ุตูุญุฉ ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู…ู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ. ูŠุชู… ุชู…ุฑูŠุฑ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุงุช ุจุงู„ุชุฒุงู…ู† ู…ุน ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ. ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุฃูŠ ุชุนู„ูŠู‚ุงุช ุฃูˆ ุทู„ุจุงุช ุŒ ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ุจู†ุง ุจุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ู‡ุฐุง.

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