Why city flags may be the worst-designed thing you've never noticed | Roman Mars

譯者: Yo Kaung Zhang 審譯者: CHEN KaiWei

我知道你們在想什麼：

I know what you're thinking:

「為什麼這傢伙坐着？」

"Why does that guy get to sit down?"

That's because this is radio.

因為這是在廣播。

（音樂）

(Music)

I tell radio stories about design,

我廣播有關設計的故事，

and I report on all kinds of stories:

我講述各種各樣的故事：

buildings and toothbrushes, mascots and wayfinding and fonts.

建築和牙刷

吉祥物、路標還有字體。

My mission is to get people to engage with the design that they care about

我的任務是讓人們關注 他們在乎的設計，

so they begin to pay attention to all forms of design.

讓人們開始注意各種形式的設計。

當你用設計的眼光看世界時，

When you decode the world with design intent in mind,

the world becomes kind of magical.

世界開始變得神奇。

看見的不再是支零破碎的物體，

Instead of seeing the broken things,

而是點點滴滴的智慧

you see all the little bits of genius

that anonymous designers have sweated over to make our lives better.

由無名的設計家辛苦構建

目的是讓我們生活更加美好。

And that's essentially the definition of design:

而這就是設計的精華定義：

making life better and providing joy.

讓生活更美好、為生活提供歡樂。

精心設計的旗幟

And few things give me greater joy

than a well-designed flag.

是最能給我帶來歡樂的事物之一。

（掌聲）（笑聲）

(Laughter)

Yeah!

沒錯！

(Applause)

Happy 50th anniversary on your flag, Canada.

50歲生日快樂，加拿大國旗。

It is beautiful, gold standard.

非常漂亮，黃金標準。人見人愛。

Love it.

I'm kind of obsessed with flags.

我對旗幟非常著迷。

有時我跟別人聊旗幟，

Sometimes I bring up the topic of flags,

對方就會說：「我不在乎旗幟。」

and people are like, "I don't care about flags,"

and then we start talking about flags, and trust me,

然後我們開始聊旗幟，信不信由你，

100 percent of people care about flags.

所有人都在乎旗幟。

There's just something about them that works on our emotions.

旗幟裡面有一種奇妙的東西 左右著我們的情感。

My family wrapped my Christmas presents as flags this year,

今年我的家人用國旗 包裝我的聖誕禮物，

也包括右上方那個藍色禮物袋

including the blue gift bag that's dressed up as the flag of Scotland.

設計用的是蘇格蘭旗。

我將這照片擺上網，當然，

I put this picture online, and sure enough,

within the first few minutes, someone left a comment that said,

幾分鐘內就有人留言說：

"You can take that Scottish Saltire and shove it up your ass."

「收起蘇格蘭的聖安德魯十字旗， 塞到你屁股裡。」（笑聲）

(Laughter)

看吧，人們相當熱衷於旗幟。

See, people are passionate about flags, you know?

這就是旗幟的力量。

That's the way it is.

What I love about flags

我之所以喜歡旗幟，

is that once you understand the design of flags,

是因為一旦你理解了旗幟的設計

what makes a good flag, what makes a bad flag,

理解怎樣才算好的旗幟， 怎樣才算壞的旗幟，

you can understand the design of almost anything.

你就可以理解 幾乎所有事物的設計。

So what I'm going to do here is,

所以我現在要做的是

I cracked open an episode of my radio show,

我開始我的設計廣播節目 「99% Invisible」

"99% Invisible," and I'm going to reconstruct it here on stage,

我將會在台上呈現這個節目

so when I press a button over here --

所以當我在這點擊按鈕時——

聲音：S代表聲音——

Voice: S for Sound --

羅曼·馬斯：就會發出聲音，

Roman Mars: It's going to make a sound,

and so whenever you hear a sound or a voice or a piece of music,

所以大家要是聽到聲音

或者音樂，

那是因為我按了按鈕。

it's because I pressed a button.

Voice: Sound.

聲音：嘶——聲音。

RM: All right, got it? Here we go.

馬斯：好了？我們開始吧。

Three, two.

三，二。

This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.

歡迎收聽「99% Invisible」 我是羅曼·馬斯

(Music)

Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

陳述者：設計旗幟的五個基本原則。

Roman Mars: According to the North American Vexillological Association.

馬斯：根據北美旗幟學協會

Vexillological.

旗幟學

Ted Kaye: Vexillology is the study of flags.

泰德·凱伊（旗幟學家）： 旗幟學指對旗幟的研究。

馬斯：聽上去有點怪異， 是因為裡面的笑意。

RM: It's that extra "lol" that makes it sound weird.

Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。

The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

旗幟應該設計簡單， 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

RM: Before I moved to Chicago in 2005,

馬斯：2005年搬到芝加哥之前

I didn't even know cities had their own flags.

我並不知道城市也有自己的旗幟。

凱伊：大部分的大型城市 的確有自己的旗幟。

TK: Most larger cities do have flags.

馬斯：我那時並不知道。 噢，這是泰德·凱伊。

RM: Well, I didn't know that, that's Ted Kaye, by the way.

TK: Hello.

凱伊：大家好。 馬斯：他是旗幟學專家。

RM: He's a flag expert, he's a totally awesome guy.

他超級棒。

凱伊：我叫泰德·凱伊。我編輯過 一本旗幟學的學術周刊，

TK: I'm Ted Kaye, I have edited a scholarly journal on flag studies,

and I am currently involved with the Portland Flag Association

目前我在波特蘭旗幟協會

and the North American Vexillological Association.

還有北美旗幟學協會。

馬斯：泰德寫了一本 關於旗幟設計的書。

RM: Ted literally wrote the book on flag design.

陳述者：「好旗，壞旗」

Narrator: "Good Flag, Bad Flag."

RM: It's more of a pamphlet, really, it's about 16 pages.

馬斯：這看上去更像小冊子。 大概有16頁。

TK: Yes, it's called "Good Flag, Bad Flag: How to Design a Great Flag."

凱伊：沒錯，書名為

「好旗，壞旗： 如何設計一支出色的旗幟」

RM: And that first city flag I discovered in Chicago

馬斯：我在芝加哥發現的第一支市旗

is a beaut:

美麗動人：

white field, two horizontal blue stripes,

白色背景，兩條水平藍色條紋，

and four six-pointed red stars down the middle.

還有中間四個六角紅星。

(Sound)

陳述者：第二，使用有意義的象徵。

Narrator: Number two, use meaningful symbolism.

TK: The blue stripes represent the water, the river and the lake.

凱伊：藍色條紋代表 水、河流、湖泊。

Narrator: The flag's images, colors or pattern

陳述者：旗幟的圖案、顏色、圖形

should relate to what it symbolizes.

應該與象徵的事物相關。

TK: The red stars represent significant events in Chicago's history.

凱伊：紅星代表 芝加哥的重要歷史事件。

馬斯：指的是未來芝加哥的 迪爾伯恩堡的建立；

RM: Namely, the founding of Fort Dearborn on the future site of Chicago,

1871年的芝加哥大火；

the Great Chicago Fire,

芝加哥哥倫布世界紀念博覽館，

the World Columbian Exposition, which everyone remembers

because of the White City,

由於懷特城，大家都記得這一事件；

and the Century of Progress Exposition, which no one remembers at all.

還有芝加哥萬國博覽會，

沒有人記得這一事件。

陳述者：第三， 使用兩到三種基本顏色。

Narrator: Number three, use two to three basic colors.

TK: The basic rule for colors is to use two to three colors

凱伊：顏色的基本原則是

使用標準顏色集裡的 兩到三種基本顏色：

from the standard color set: red, white, blue, green, yellow and black.

紅、白、藍、綠、黃、黑。

RM: The design of the Chicago flag has complete buy-in

馬斯：芝加哥市旗的設計 深受大眾喜愛，

在城市各個地方都可看見。

with an entire cross-section of the city.

非常普遍；

It is everywhere;

every municipal building flies the flag.

每幢市建築都立著這一支旗。

Whet Moser：我工作附近 每條街上都有至少一家商店

Whet Moser: There's probably at least one store on every block

會賣帶有芝加哥市旗的用具。

near where I work that sells some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.

RM: That's Whet Moser from Chicago magazine.

馬斯：他是芝加哥雜誌的 Whet Moser。

WM: Today, just for example, I went to get a haircut,

Moser：譬如今天我去剪頭髮，

and when I sat down in the barber's chair,

我坐在理髮師的椅子上，

there was a Chicago flag on the box that the barber kept all his tools in,

看見理髮師的工具箱上 就有一支芝加哥市旗，

and then in the mirror, there was a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.

然後鏡子裡面在我身後 也有一支芝加哥市旗。

When I left, a guy passed me who had a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.

我離開的時候，經過一個男子 背包上面有一個芝加哥市旗徽章。

RM: It's adaptable and remixable.

馬斯：旗幟的適應力和混搭力很強。

The six-pointed stars in particular show up in all kinds of places.

特別是六角形 在各種地方都能看見。

WM: The coffee I bought the other day had a Chicago star on it.

Moser：有天我買的咖啡上

就有一顆芝加哥星。

RM: It's a distinct symbol of Chicago pride.

馬斯：這是芝加哥驕傲的獨特標誌。

TK: When a police officer or a firefighter dies in Chicago,

凱伊：芝加哥裡 有警察或消防員身亡時

靈柩上一般放的不是美國國旗。

often it's not the flag of the United States on his casket.

It can be the flag of the city of Chicago.

放的可以是芝加哥市旗。

That's how deeply the flag has gotten into the civic imagery of Chicago.

這就是市旗 對芝加哥市民形象的力量。

RM: And it isn't just that people love Chicago and therefore love the flag.

馬斯：這不只是人們喜歡芝加哥 才喜歡芝加哥的市旗。

I also think that people love Chicago more because the flag is so cool.

我認為因為芝加哥市旗太棒了

所以人們更加喜歡芝加哥。

TK: A positive feedback loop there between great symbolism and civic pride.

凱伊：偉大象徵和市民驕傲之間 一個相當正面的反饋循環。

RM: OK, so when I moved back to San Francisco in 2008,

馬斯：因此2008年搬回三藩市時，

I researched its flag,

我搜索了三藩市的市旗，

because I had never seen it in the previous eight years I lived there.

因為我從未見過這支旗，

儘管我在那裡住過八年。

然後我發現，很抱歉地說，

And I found it, I am sorry to say,

sadly lacking.

這支旗不夠力。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I know.

我知道。

It hurts me, too.

這也讓我很傷心。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

凱伊：讓我從頭說起。

TK: Well, let me start from the top.

陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。

Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.

凱伊：設計要簡單。

TK: Keeping it simple.

Narrator: The flag should be so simple that a child can draw it from memory.

陳述者：旗幟設計應盡量簡單， 連小孩子也能記住畫出來。

凱伊：這是相對複雜的一支旗。

TK: It's a relatively complex flag.

RM: OK, here we go, OK.

馬斯：好，我們來。

The main component of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix

三藩市市旗的主要元素是鳳凰

representing the city rising from the ashes

代表經歷了18世紀50年代 的災難性大火後

after the devastating fires of the 1850s.

三藩市在灰燼中重生。

TK: A powerful symbol for San Francisco.

凱伊：三藩市的有力象徵。

RM: I still don't really dig the phoenix.

馬斯：我仍然不太喜歡那隻鳳凰。

Design-wise, it manages to both be too crude

設計方面，旗幟表現得太粗野

and have too many details at the same time,

同時又包涵太多細節，

which if you were trying for that,

要是試圖涵蓋太多細節，

you wouldn't be able to do it,

你終歸是做不出好旗，

and it just looks bad at a distance,

遠看一點都不順眼，

but having deep meaning puts that element in the plus column.

但這些深層的含義 也讓旗幟加點分。

Behind the phoenix, the background is mostly white,

鳳凰後面大部分是白色背景，

and then it has a substantial gold border around it.

然後有大量的金色邊界。

TK: Which is a very attractive design element.

凱伊：這是相當有魅力的設計元素。

馬斯：我認為這還過得去。但是—— （笑聲）——

RM: I think it's OK, but --

(Laughter)

here come the big no-nos of flag design.

看看旗幟設計的大忌。

陳述者：第四， 不要有字母或者印章。

Narrator: Number four, no lettering or seals.

Never use writing of any kind.

絕對不要使用任何字體。

RM: Underneath the phoenix, there's a motto on a ribbon

馬斯：鳳凰下面的緞帶上 寫著一句格言

其譯文為：「和平金色，戰爭鐵色」

that translates to "Gold in peace, iron in war,"

plus -- and this is the big problem --

另外——這是大問題——

it says San Francisco across the bottom.

下面寫著三藩市。

凱伊：如果你得靠寫下

TK: If you need to write the name of what you're representing on your flag,

旗幟所代表的事物的名稱，

your symbolism has failed.

這象徵就失敗了。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

(Applause)

RM: The United States flag doesn't say "USA" across the front.

馬斯：美國國旗上可不寫「美國」。

In fact, country flags, they tend to behave.

事實上，國家國旗一般比較聽話。

Like, hats off to South Africa and Turkey and Israel

比如說，看看南非、土耳其、以色列

看看索馬里、日本、岡比亞。

and Somalia and Japan and Gambia.

這些國旗都很棒，

There's a bunch of really great country flags,

but they obey good design principles because the stakes are high.

但是他們遵循優秀設計的原則， 因為風險太高。

They're on the international stage.

他們走的是國際舞台。

But city, state and regional flags are another story.

但是市旗、州旗、區旗

又是另一回事。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

There is a scourge of bad flags --

也有一幫壞旗，

(Laughter)

and they must be stopped.

這些旗幟得有人叫停。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

(Applause)

That is the truth and that is the dare.

這就是真相和膽量。

The first step is to recognize that we have a problem.

第一步是

認清我們有一個問題。

(Laughter)

A lot of people tend to think that good design

許多人一般認為 好的設計

is just a matter of taste,

不過是品味問題，

and quite honestly, sometimes it is, actually,

老實說，有時候是這樣，

but sometimes it isn't, all right?

但有時候又不是這樣。

(Laughter)

Here's the full list of NAVA flag design principles.

以下是北美旗幟學協會 旗幟設計的全部原則。

陳述者：旗幟設計的五大基本原則。

Narrator: The five basic principles of flag design.

第一。 凱伊：設計要簡單。

Narrator: Number one. TK: Keep it simple.

陳述者：第二。 凱伊：使用有意義的象徵。

Narrator: Number two. TK: Use meaningful symbolism.

陳述者：第三。 凱伊：使用兩到三種基本顏色。

Narrator: Number three. TK: Use two to three basic colors.

陳述者：第四。 凱伊：不要用任何字母或印章。

Narrator: Number four. TK: No lettering or seals.

陳述者：絕對不要使用任何字體。

Narrator: Never use writing of any kind.

凱伊：因為在遠處 你不會看到這些字。

TK: Because you can't read that at a distance.

陳述者：第五。 凱伊：要獨特。

Narrator: Number five. TK: And be distinctive.

馬斯：所有出眾的旗幟 一般會遵循這些原則。

RM: All the best flags tend to stick to these principles.

像我說的那樣，大部分國旗都很好。

And like I said before, most country flags are OK.

但問題是：

But here's the thing:

如果你讓任何設計師看這些原則，

if you showed this list of principles to any designer of almost anything,

他們會說這些原則—— 簡單、有意義、

they would say these principles -- simplicity, deep meaning,

having few colors or being thoughtful about colors,

用色簡單、謹慎，

uniqueness, don't have writing you can't read --

獨特、不帶任何看不到的字體——

all those principles apply to them, too.

所有這些原則 都適用於所有設計師。

But sadly, good design principles are rarely invoked in US city flags.

但不幸的是，好的設計原則

很少體現在美國的市旗上。

Our biggest problem seems to be that fourth one.

我們最大的問題 看來是第四條原則。

We just can't stop ourselves from putting our names on our flags,

我們就是不能阻止自己

將自己的名字放到旗幟上，

or little municipal seals with tiny writing on them.

或者小小的市章和小小的字體。

Here's the thing about municipal seals:

使用市章的問題是：

They were designed to be on pieces of paper

這些市章原來的設計目的是 用在一張紙上，

讓大家看得清，

where you can read them,

not on flags 100 feet away flapping in the breeze.

而不是用在100尺外 隨風飄揚的旗幟上。

So here's a bunch of flags again.

這裡有一堆市旗。

Vexillologists call these SOBs:

旗幟學家稱這些為「床照」：

Seals on a bedsheet --

床單上的印照——（笑聲）

(Laughter)

and if you can't tell what city they go to,

如果你不知道它們屬於哪個城市

yeah, that's exactly the problem,

沒錯，這就是問題，

except for Anaheim, apparently, they fixed it.

明顯除了阿納海姆市旗 （Anaheim，右上角）

他們解決了這個問題。（笑聲）

(Laughter)

這些旗幟在美國隨處可見。

These flags are everywhere in the US.

The European equivalent of the municipal seal

歐洲國家的市章

is the city coat of arms ...

是城市的遁形紋章，

我們能從中學習一下 怎樣把旗幟設計好。

and this is where we can learn a lesson for how to do things right.

So this is the city coat of arms of Amsterdam.

這是阿姆斯特丹的紋章。

Now, if this were a United States city,

倘若這是一個美國城市，

the flag would probably look like this.

這支市旗估計會長成這樣。

你懂的，是吧。（笑聲）

You know, yeah.

(Laughter)

But instead, the flag of Amsterdam

但是阿姆斯特丹的市旗

looks like this.

是這樣的。

Rather than plopping the whole coat of arms

它不是把整個紋章扔進去

on a solid background and writing "Amsterdam" below it,

丟到一個硬邦邦的背景裡 下面再寫著「阿姆斯特丹」；

而是採納紋章盾牌的關鍵要素，

they just take the key elements of the escutcheon, the shield,

將其變成世界上最惹是生非的市旗。

and they turn it into the most badass city flag in the world.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

(Applause)

And because it's so badass,

正因為這支旗夠搗蛋，

those flags and crosses are found throughout Amsterdam,

這些旗幟和交叉 在阿姆斯特丹隨處可見，

just like Chicago, they're used.

就像芝加哥市旗一樣受歡迎。

Even though seal-on-a-bedsheet flags are particularly painful

儘管這些床照旗幟

and offensive to me,

有夠讓我特別痛苦、受不了，

nothing can quite prepare you

你怎麼也不會受得了

for one of the biggest train wrecks in vexillological history.

旗幟學歷史上最嚴重的事故之一。

(Laughter)

Are you ready?

準備好了嗎？

It's the flag of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

威斯康星州 密爾沃基市的市旗

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I mean, it's distinctive,

我想，這夠獨特的。

I'll give them that.

這個我可以贊。

史提芬·柯蒂斯： 這支旗始用於1955年。

Steve Kodis: It was adopted in 1955.

RM: The city ran a contest

馬斯：密爾沃基市 舉行了一場設計比賽

收集了一堆作品

and gathered a bunch of submissions with all kinds of designs.

各種各樣的作品設計。

SK: And an alderman by the name of Fred Steffan

柯蒂斯：一名市政議員 名叫Fred Steffan

cobbled together parts of the submissions to make what is now the Milwaukee flag.

將這些作品的一些部分拼湊起來

組成了今天我們所見的 密爾沃基市市旗。

馬斯：這是一支廚房水槽旗幟。

RM: It's a kitchen sink flag.

There's a gigantic gear representing industry,

大大的齒輪，代表工業；

there's a ship recognizing the port,

一隻船，代表港口；

a giant stalk of wheat

一大支麥穗

paying homage to the brewing industry.

向釀造業致敬。

It's a hot mess,

亂得一塌糊塗。

and Steve Kodis, a graphic designer from Milwaukee, wants to change it.

史提芬·柯蒂斯是密爾沃基市的 平面設計師，他想改變這支旗。

SK: It's really awful.

柯蒂斯：這有夠可怕的。

It's a misstep on the city's behalf,

是這座城市的代表性失誤，

to say the least.

退一步來說。

RM: But what puts the Milwaukee flag over the top,

馬斯：但這支旗最讓人無法接受的是

——簡直就是一個惡搞——

almost to the point of self-parody,

裡面還有密爾沃基兵團 在內戰期間所用的戰旗。

is on it is a picture of the Civil War battle flag of the Milwaukee regiment.

SK: So that's the final element in it

柯蒂斯：正是這最後一擊

that just makes it that much more ridiculous,

讓這支旗變得最最滑稽，

that there is a flag design within the Milwaukee flag.

密爾沃基市旗裡面 竟然還有一支旗。

RM: On the flag. Yeah. Yeah.

馬斯：旗中旗，沒錯。（笑聲）

(Laughter)

Yeah.

好。

(Music)

（音樂）

Now, Milwaukee is a fantastic city.

密爾沃基市相當迷人

I've been there, I love it.

我去過那裡。相當喜愛。

The most depressing part of this flag, though,

然而，這支旗最讓人傷心的是

is that there have been two major redesign contests.

已經舉辦過兩場大型設計比賽。

最近一場是在2001年。

The last one was held in 2001.

105 entries were received.

收到了105份作品。

TK: But in the end, the members of the Milwaukee Arts Board

柯蒂斯：但最後， 密爾沃基市的藝術委員會成員

decided that none of the new entries were worthy of flying over the city.

決定沒有作品能夠取代舊旗 飄揚在城市上空。

馬斯：他們不能就達成共識 換掉這東西！（笑聲）

RM: They couldn't agree to change that thing!

(Laughter)

That's discouraging enough to make you think

這夠讓你挫敗認為

that good design and democracy just simply do not go together.

好的設計和民主

就是水火不相容。

(Laughter)

But Steve Kotas is going to try one more time

但是柯蒂斯要再次嘗試

to redesign the Milwaukee flag.

重新設計密爾沃基市旗。

柯蒂斯：我相信 密爾沃基市相當出色。

SK: I believe Milwaukee is a great city.

每個出色的城市 都值得擁有一支出色的市旗。

Every great city deserves a great flag.

馬斯：柯蒂斯暫未預備 展現他的設計。

RM: Steve isn't ready to reveal his design yet.

One of the things about proposing one of these things

要提這樣的建議，其中一個要務是

你得讓大眾參與在乎，

is you have to get people on board,

and then you reveal your design.

然後你在呈現你的設計。

But here's the trick:

但這就是竅門：

If you want to design a great flag,

要是你想設計出色的旗幟，

a kick-ass flag like Chicago's or DC's, which also has a great flag,

一支像芝加哥旗或首都華盛頓旗 那樣了不起的旗幟，

start by drawing a one-by-one-and-a-half-inch rectangle

那就先開始在紙上 畫一個1×1.5英寸長方形。

on a piece of paper.

Your design has to fit within that tiny rectangle.

你的設計必須能 上這個小長方形。

Here's why.

請聽原因。

TK: A three-by-five-foot flag on a pole 100 feet away

柯蒂斯：一支3×5英尺的旗

立在100尺外旗桿上

尺寸看上去

looks about the same size as a one-by-one-and-a-half-inch rectangle

就像你在15英寸外看

seen about 15 inches from your eye.

一個1×1.5英寸長方形。

You'd be surprised by how compelling and simple the design can be

你可能不知道 這樣的設計限制

when you hold yourself to that limitation.

可以讓你的設計 變得多麼簡單有力。

RM: Meanwhile, back in San Francisco.

馬斯：同時，在三藩市。

Is there anything we can do?

我們能做些什麼嗎？

凱伊：我想說，每支壞旗裡

TK: I like to say that in every bad flag there's a good flag trying to get out.

都有一些好旗的元素躍躍欲現。 （笑聲）

The way to make San Francisco's flag a good flag

要把三藩市市旗設計好，

就要摘下那句格言，

is to take the motto off because you can't read that at a distance.

因為你遠處什麼都看不見。

Take the name off,

把市名拿走，

and the border might even be made thicker, so it's more a part of the flag.

然後金邊可以再厚一點，

這就更融合到旗幟裡。

And I would simply take the phoenix

我會簡單利用這隻鳳凰，

and make it a great big element in the middle of the flag.

讓它變成一個出色的大型元素，

立在旗幟的中心位置。

RM: But the current phoenix, that's got to go.

馬斯：但是眼前的這隻鳳凰 必須閃人。

TK: I would simplify or stylize the phoenix.

凱伊：我會簡化或風格化這隻鳳凰。

想像一隻展翼大鳥

Depict a big, wide-winged bird

coming out of flames.

從火焰出降生。

Emphasize those flames.

強調火焰。

RM: So this San Francisco flag was designed by Frank Chimero

馬斯：所以三藩市市旗 由Frank Chimero從新設計

based on Ted Kaye's suggestions.

參考了凱伊提出的建議。

要是我們完全沒有限制 也不遵循那些原則，

I don't know what he would do if we was completely unfettered

我不知道他會設計出什麼。

and didn't follow those guidelines.

Fans of my radio show and podcast, heard me complain about bad flags.

我的廣播電台粉絲

已經聽過我抱怨這些壞旗。

They've sent me other suggested designs.

他們寄給我其他一些設計建議。

This one's by Neil Mussett.

這一張是由 Neil Mussett 設計。

Both are so much better.

兩張都好很多。

(Laughter)

我想，要是採用任一張，

And I think if they were adopted,

它們會在市裡大受歡迎。

I would see them around the city.

我一路遠征 讓世界上的旗幟更加漂亮，

In my crusade to make flags of the world more beautiful,

許多聽眾也親身體驗，

many listeners have taken it upon themselves

從新設計他們的旗幟，

to redesign their flags and look into the feasibility

of getting them officially adopted.

並考慮讓這些旗幟 得到官方認可的可行性。

(Music)

If you see your city flag and like it,

要是你看見你的市旗、喜歡你的市旗

fly it,

就讓它飄揚，

even if it violates a design rule or two.

儘管這可能違反一兩條設計原則。

I don't care.

我不在意。

But if you don't see your city flag,

但是要是你看不見你的市旗，

maybe it doesn't exist, but maybe it does,

也許市旗不存在，但也許是存在的，

只不過是設計很醜，

and it just sucks,

and I dare you to join the effort to try to change that.

那我就向你挑戰， 一起致力嘗試作出改變。

As we move more and more into cities,

現在我們逐漸遷入城市，

the city flag will become not just a symbol of that city as a place,

市旗會變成

不只是這個城市的地方象徵，

but also, it could become a symbol of how that city considers design itself,

這還可以體現出

城市自身如何看待設計，

especially today, as the populace is becoming more design-aware.

特別在現今，大眾越來越關注設計。

And I think design awareness is at an all-time high.

我認為，設計意識正處於歷史高位。

A well-designed flag could be seen as an indicator of how a city

一支設計出色的旗幟 可以反映

一個城市如何看待 自身的設計體系：

considers all of its design systems:

its public transit,

城市的大眾捷運、

its parks, its signage.

城市公園、城市標牌。

It might seem frivolous, but it's not.

看似無足輕重，但其實很重要。

TK: Often when city leaders say,

凱伊：通常當市領導說：

"We have more important things to do than worry about a city flag,"

「我們有更要緊的事做， 而不是擔憂一支市旗。」

my response is,

我的反應是：

"If you had a great city flag,

「如果你有一支出色的市旗，

you would have a banner for people to rally under

你會有一張旗幟去團結大眾

to face those more important things."

共同面對更要緊的事情。」

(Music)

RM: I've seen firsthand what a good city flag can do

馬斯：我見證過一流市旗的力量，

in the case of Chicago.

在芝加哥的時候。

The marriage of good design and civic pride

優秀設計和市民驕傲的完美結合

is something that we need in all places.

是我們在任何地方都需要的元素。

The best part about municipal flags is that we own them.

市旗最誘人的一點是

我們有擁有權。

They are an open-source,

市旗是開放資源，

publicly owned design language of the community.

是公眾共有的社區設計語言。

When they are done well,

市旗做得好，

they are remixable, adaptable, and they are powerful.

就會有很強的適應力和混搭力，

也會帶來很大的力量。

We could control the branding and graphical imagery

我們可以利用一支好旗

來控制一個城市的品牌形象，

of our cities with a good flag,

but instead, by having bad flags we don't use,

反之，要是我們有的是 一支沒用的壞旗，

we cede that territory to sports teams

我們就放棄了這一領域，

讓給了運動隊、商會、旅遊局。

and chambers of commerce and tourism boards.

Sports teams can leave and break our hearts.

運動隊可以拍拍屁股離開 讓我們心碎。

And besides, some of us don't really care about sports.

另有，一些人其實 一點都不關心運動。

And tourism campaigns can just be cheesy.

而旅遊宣傳活動可以很俗氣。

But a great city flag

但是一支出色的市旗

is something that represents a city to its people

才是市民的真正城市表徵，

and its people to the world at large.

才是世界的真正人民表徵。

And when that flag is a beautiful thing,

要是一支旗幟設計動人，

旗幟建立起來的聯繫也會動人。

that connection is a beautiful thing.

所以也許所有的市旗 可以變得相當鼓舞人心，像香港市旗

So maybe all the city flags can be as inspiring as Hong Kong

or Portland or Trondheim,

譬如波特蘭市旗、 特隆赫姆市旗，

and we can do away with all the bad flags

也許我們可以逃脫所有的壞旗，

like San Francisco, Milwaukee, Cedar Rapids,

像三藩市市旗、密爾沃基市旗

錫達拉皮茲市旗，

and finally, when we're all done,

最後要是我們都搞定了，

we can do something about Pocatello, Idaho,

我們可以為愛達荷州的 波卡特洛市旗想想辦法，

北美旗幟學協會認為

considered by the North American Vexillological Association

波卡特洛市旗 是北美最糟糕的旗幟。

as the worst city flag in North America.

[Proud to be Pocatello]

（笑聲）（掌聲）

(Laughter)

(Applause)

Yeah.

沒錯。

(Applause)

That thing has a trademark symbol on it, people.

這東西有個商標在上面。（笑聲）

(Laughter)

That hurts me just to look at.

光看見就讓我傷心。

(Laughter)

Thank you so much for listening.

謝謝大家的收聽。

（掌聲）

(Applause)

[Music by: Melodium (@melodiumbox) and Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)]

[音樂: Melodium (@melodiumbox) 以及Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)]