Amy Smith: Simple designs that could save millions of childrens' lives

40,222 views ・ 2007-01-16

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譯者: Dxm Online大小媒體 審譯者: Bill Hsiung
00:25
In terms of invention,
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就發明而言,
00:26
I'd like to tell you the tale of one of my favorite projects.
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我想跟大家分享一個我最喜歡的計畫。
00:29
I think it's one of the most exciting that I'm working on,
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也是我正在進行計畫中,最令人興奮的一個,
00:33
but I think it's also the simplest.
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但也是最簡單的一個。
00:35
It's a project that has the potential to make a huge impact around the world.
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這計畫有可能對全世界造成巨大影響。
00:39
It addresses one of the biggest health issues on the planet,
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這個計畫致力解決地球上最大的健康問題之一,
00:43
the number one cause of death in children under five.
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那就是五歲以下兒童的第一大死因,
00:46
Which is ...?
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那又是什麼呢?是藉由水傳染的疾病、腹瀉或營養不良嗎?
00:48
Water-borne diseases? Diarrhea? Malnutrition?
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都不是,而是吸入屋內烹飪用火的煙
00:52
No.
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00:53
It's breathing the smoke from indoor cooking fires --
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00:57
acute respiratory infections caused by this.
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所引起的急性呼吸道感染疾病。你能相信嗎?
01:01
Can you believe that?
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01:02
I find this shocking and somewhat appalling.
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我覺得震驚而且有點可怕。
我們難道不能製造低污染的烹飪燃料嗎?
01:06
Can't we make cleaner burning cooking fuels?
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01:08
Can't we make better stoves?
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我們難道不能製造更好的烤爐嗎?
01:10
How is it that this can lead to over two million deaths every year?
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這種原因怎麼可能造成每年 200 萬人以上的死亡呢?
01:14
I know Bill Joy was talking to you about the wonders of carbon nanotubes,
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我知道比爾•喬伊剛剛跟大家談過
奈米碳管的好處。
所以現在我想跟大家談談
01:19
so I'm going to talk to you about the wonders of carbon macro-tubes,
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巨碳管,也就是木炭。
01:23
which is charcoal.
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01:24
(Laughter)
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01:26
So this is a picture of rural Haiti.
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這是海地農村的照片。98% 的樹林已遭砍伐。
01:28
Haiti is now 98 percent deforested.
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01:31
You'll see scenes like this all over the island.
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這樣的景象在海地隨處可見。
01:34
It leads to all sorts of environmental problems
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這造就了各種環境問題,
01:37
and problems that affect people throughout the nation.
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影響整個國家人民的問題。
01:41
A couple years ago there was severe flooding
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幾年前有場很嚴重的水災,
01:44
that led to thousands of deaths --
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造成上千人的死亡,
01:45
that's directly attributable to the fact
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原因要歸咎於
01:47
that there are no trees on the hills to stabilize the soil.
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山坡上沒有樹木可以固定土壤。
01:50
So the rains come --
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當下雨時,土壤流進了河流,因而造成了水災。
01:51
they go down the rivers and the flooding happens.
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01:55
Now one of the reasons why there are so few trees is this:
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樹木變稀少的原因之一是:
01:58
people need to cook,
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人們需要煮飯,所以就砍樹並
02:00
and they harvest wood and they make charcoal in order to do it.
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製造木炭來烹飪。
02:04
It's not that people are ignorant to the environmental damage.
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並不是人們不知道這樣會破壞大自然。
02:07
They know perfectly well, but they have no other choice.
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他們非常清楚,卻沒有其他選擇。
02:10
Fossil fuels are not available,
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石化燃料不易取得,
02:12
and solar energy doesn't cook the way that they like their food prepared.
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用太陽能烹煮的食物風味不符合他們的口味。
02:16
And so this is what they do.
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所以他們只好如此。
02:19
You'll find families like this who go out into the forest to find a tree,
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你會看到像這樣的家庭到森林裡去找一棵樹,
02:23
cut it down and make charcoal out of it.
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砍倒樹後,做成木炭來用。
02:27
So not surprisingly,
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並不意外地,有人做了許多努力,
02:28
there's a lot of effort that's been done to look at alternative cooking fuels.
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探討替代的烹飪燃料。
02:34
About four years ago, I took a team of students down to Haiti
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大約四年前,我帶了一群學生去海地,
02:37
and we worked with Peace Corps volunteers there.
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與和平團的志工一起工作。
02:39
This is one such volunteer
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這是其中一位志工,
02:41
and this is a device that he had built in the village where he worked.
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這是他在他所服務的村子裡建造的機器。
02:44
And the idea was that you could take waste paper;
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概念來自於你可以將廢紙
02:47
you could compress it
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壓扁成為燃料用的紙餅。
02:48
and make briquettes that could be used for fuel.
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02:51
But this device was very slow.
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可是這個機器運作速度很緩慢。
02:53
So our engineering students went to work on it
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所以我們工程系的學生過去幫忙,
02:56
and with some very simple changes,
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透過一些非常簡單的改進,
02:58
they were able to triple the throughput of this device.
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就將機器的生產率提高了三倍。
03:01
So you could imagine they were very excited about it.
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你可以想像他們有多麼興奮。
03:04
And they took the briquettes back to MIT so that they could test them.
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學生們把紙餅帶回麻省理工學院測試。
其中一個發現是,紙餅並不會燃燒。
03:09
And one of the things that they found was they didn't burn.
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03:13
So it was a little discouraging to the students.
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這讓學生們感到有點洩氣。
03:16
(Laughter)
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03:17
And in fact, if you look closely,
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實際上,如果你仔細看,就在這兒,
03:20
right here you can see it says, "US Peace Corps."
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你可以看見上面寫著:「美國和平團」
03:23
As it turns out, there actually wasn't any waste paper in this village.
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後來發現,那村子根本沒有任何廢紙。
03:27
And while it was a good use of government paperwork
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這志工雖然充分利用了政府文件
03:30
for this volunteer to bring it back with him to his village,
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做成了紙餅帶回他的村子,
03:33
it was 800 kilometers away.
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八百公里之外的村子。
03:35
And so we thought perhaps there might be a better way
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所以我們認為,也許還有更好的辦法
03:38
to come up with an alternative cooking fuel.
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來製造替代的烹飪燃料。
03:41
What we wanted to do is we wanted to make a fuel
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我們想要做的是,製造一種燃料,
03:43
that used something that was readily available on the local level.
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使用在地現有並容易取得的材料。
03:47
You see these all over Haiti as well.
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你在海地也到處看得到這種小型的製糖廠。
03:49
They're small-scale sugar mills.
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03:50
And the waste product from them
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榨取甘蔗汁之後的廢料
03:52
after you extract the juice from the sugarcane
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稱為甘蔗渣。
03:54
is called "bagasse."
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03:56
It has no other use.
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甘蔗渣沒有其他用途。沒有營養,
03:57
It has no nutritional value, so they don't feed it to the animals.
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所以不能用來餵養動物。
04:00
It just sits in a pile near the sugar mill until eventually they burn it.
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甘蔗渣就被堆積在製糖廠旁,等著最後被燒掉。
我們想做的是,找出一種方法
04:06
What we wanted to do was we wanted to find a way
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04:08
to harness this waste resource and turn it into a fuel
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利用這些廢料資源做成燃料
04:11
that would be something that people could easily cook with,
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讓人能輕鬆用之來烹飪,
04:14
something like charcoal.
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一種類似木炭的東西。
04:16
So over the next couple of years,
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接下來數年間,我跟學生們研發這種燃料的製程。
04:18
students and I worked to develop a process.
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04:21
So you start with the bagasse, and then you take a very simple kiln
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首先你將甘蔗渣放進一個非常簡單的窯,
04:25
that you can make out of a waste fifty five-gallon oil drum.
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一個可以用 55 加崙廢汽油桶做成的窯。
04:28
After some time, after setting it on fire,
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燃燒一段時間後,密封起來
04:31
you seal it to restrict the oxygen that goes into the kiln,
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防止氧氣進入窯裡面,
04:35
and then you end up with this carbonized material here.
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最後會得到這個碳化的材料。
04:39
However, you can't burn this.
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但是你不能燃燒這個。因為太細
04:40
It's too fine and it burns too quickly to be useful for cooking.
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且燒得太快,無法用來烹飪。
04:45
So we had to try to find a way to form it into useful briquettes.
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所以我們必須想辦法把它
04:49
And conveniently, one of my students was from Ghana,
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變成有用的餅塊,剛好有個學生來自迦納,
他記得他母親曾做過的「可康堤」,
04:53
and he remembered a dish his mom used to make for him called "kokonte,"
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04:56
which is a very sticky porridge made out of the cassava root.
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那是一種用樹薯做的黏稠的粥。
04:59
And so what we did was we looked,
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於是我們調查後發現
05:01
and we found that cassava is indeed grown in Haiti,
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海地確實有種植樹薯,只是被叫做木薯。
05:04
under the name of "manioc."
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05:06
In fact, it's grown all over the world --
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其實世界各地都有種植 —
05:08
yucca, tapioca, manioc, cassava, it's all the same thing --
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絲蘭西米、木薯、樹薯,全都一樣,
05:11
a very starchy root vegetable.
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是一種含高澱粉的根菜。
05:14
And you can make a very thick, sticky porridge out of it,
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可用其做成很黏稠的漿糊,
05:17
which you can use to bind together the charcoal briquettes.
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來把炭餅黏在一起。
05:21
So we did this. We went down to Haiti.
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於是我們就這麼到海地去如法炮製。
05:24
These are the graduates of the first Ecole de Charbon,
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這是「木炭大學」第一屆的畢業生,
05:27
or Charcoal Institute.
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又或你稱它為「木炭研究所」
05:29
And these --
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(笑聲)
05:30
(Laughter)
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05:31
That's right. So I'm actually an instructor at MIT as well as CIT.
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沒錯。我其實不但是麻省理工學院,同時也是木炭大學的老師。
這些就是我們製造的炭餅。
05:37
And these are the briquettes that we made.
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現在我將帶各位看看另一塊大陸。這裡是印度,
05:41
Now I'm going to take you to a different continent.
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05:44
This is India
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05:45
and this is the most commonly used cooking fuel in India.
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這是印度最普遍的烹飪燃料:牛糞。
05:48
It's cow dung.
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05:50
And more than in Haiti, this produces really smoky fires,
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比海地更嚴重的是,牛糞製造更多的煙,
05:54
and this is where you see the health impacts
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你可以看到燃燒牛糞和生物質對健康所造成的影響。
05:56
of cooking with cow dung and biomass as a fuel.
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你可以看到燃燒牛糞和生物質對健康所造成的影響。
06:01
Kids and women are especially affected by it,
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小孩子和婦女尤深受其害,
06:03
because they're the ones who are around the cooking fires.
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因為他們常待在火爐旁邊。
於是我們想要知道是否可以將
06:07
So we wanted to see
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06:08
if we could introduce this charcoal-making technology there.
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炭餅製作的技術引進到印度。
06:11
Well, unfortunately, they didn't have sugarcane
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可惜的是,印度沒有甘蔗渣
06:14
and they didn't have cassava,
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及樹薯,但那無法阻擋我們。
06:15
but that didn't stop us.
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06:17
What we did was we found what were the locally available sources of biomass.
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我們找出當地可用的生物質資源。
06:21
And there was wheat straw and there was rice straw in this area.
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那地方有麥稈和稻草。
06:24
And what we could use as a binder was actually small amounts of cow manure,
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至於黏著劑
則是少量的牛糞肥,
06:28
which they used ordinarily for their fuel.
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也是他們常用在燃料上的東西。
06:31
And we did side-by-side tests,
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我們進行了並排測試,你能看見這裡是
06:34
and here you can see the charcoal briquettes
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炭餅,這則是牛糞。
06:36
and here the cow dung.
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06:38
And you can see that it's a lot cleaner burning of a cooking fuel.
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你會發現炭餅是更乾淨的燃料。
06:41
And in fact, it heats the water a lot more quickly.
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實際上,它還能更快地將水煮沸。
06:43
And so we were very happy, thus far.
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因此,到目前為止,我們非常開心。
06:46
But one of the things that we found
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但當我們
06:47
was when we did side-by-side comparisons with wood charcoal,
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把炭餅和木炭並排比較時,
06:50
it didn't burn as long.
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發現炭餅的燃燒時間較短。而且炭餅會有點碎裂,
06:52
And the briquettes crumbled a little bit
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06:54
and we lost energy as they fell apart as they were cooking.
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烹飪過程中也會因瓦解而喪失能量。
06:57
So we wanted to try to find a way to make a stronger briquette
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於是,我們想要找方法製造更強韌的炭餅,
07:00
so that we could compete with wood charcoal in the markets in Haiti.
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好讓炭餅能在海地的市場上與木炭競爭。
07:05
So we went back to MIT,
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所以我們回到麻省理工學院,拿出材料測驗機,
07:07
we took out the Instron machine
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07:09
and we figured out what sort of forces you needed
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找出了所需要的壓力
07:12
in order to compress a briquette to the level
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來壓製真正能
07:14
that you actually are getting improved performance out of it?
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提升效能的炭餅。
07:17
And at the same time that we had students in the lab looking at this,
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在此同時,我們有學生在實驗室裡研究
07:21
we also had community partners in Haiti working to develop the process,
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也有海地的社群夥伴一起開發製程,
不斷改進且讓村民能更容易取用炭餅。
07:28
to improve it and make it more accessible to people in the villages there.
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一些時日之後,
07:34
And after some time,
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07:35
we developed a low-cost press that allows you to produce charcoal,
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我們開發出低成本的壓製機來製造
07:40
which actually now burns not only --
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比木炭燃燒更久且更乾淨的炭餅。
07:43
actually, it burns longer, cleaner than wood charcoal.
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07:47
So now we're in a situation where we have a product,
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現在的情況是,我們有個產品
07:49
which is actually better than what you can buy in Haiti in the marketplace,
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比你所能在海地市場買到的更好,
07:54
which is a very wonderful place to be.
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這真是個美好的成就。
07:58
In Haiti alone, about 30 million trees are cut down every year.
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光是海地,每年就有三千萬棵樹遭砍伐。
08:03
There's a possibility of this being implemented
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炭餅很可能被市場採用,
08:06
and saving a good portion of those.
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大量的樹林就得以被保存。
08:08
In addition, the revenue generated from that charcoal is 260 million dollars.
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此外,這炭餅所創造的營收是兩億六千萬美金。
這對海地來說是很龐大的金額,
08:15
That's an awful lot for a country like Haiti --
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08:17
with a population of eight million
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一個總人口數 800 萬
08:19
and an average income of less than 400 dollars.
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每人平均收入低於 400 美元的國家。
08:23
So this is where we're also moving ahead with our charcoal project.
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這也是我們炭餅計畫的目標。
08:27
And one of the things that I think is also interesting,
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另外我覺得有趣的是,
08:30
is I have a friend up at UC Berkeley who's been doing risk analysis.
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我有個朋友在柏克萊大學做風險分析。
08:34
And he's looked at the problem of the health impacts
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他觀察燃燒木柴及木炭
08:37
of burning wood versus charcoal.
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所造成的健康影響。
08:39
And he's found that worldwide, you could prevent a million deaths
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他發現如果全世界
把烹飪燃料從木柴換成木炭
08:43
switching from wood to charcoal as a cooking fuel.
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08:46
That's remarkable,
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就可避免好幾百萬人的死亡。這是很值得注意的。
08:48
but up until now, there weren't ways to do it without cutting down trees.
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可是在這之前,除了砍樹外,別無他法。
08:51
But now we have a way
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但現在我們可以利用
08:52
that's using an agricultural waste material to create a cooking fuel.
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農業廢料製造燃料來煮飯。
08:56
One of the really exciting things, though,
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其中真的很令人興奮的,
08:59
is something that came out of the trip that I took to Ghana just last month.
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也是上個月我到迦納才發現的。
09:02
And I think it's the coolest thing,
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這是我覺得最酷的事,
而且比你剛才看到的技術還要簡單,
09:06
and it's even lower tech than what you just saw,
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09:08
if you can imagine such a thing.
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如果你能想像得到的話。我們來看一下。
09:10
Here it is.
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09:11
So what is this?
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這是什麼呢?這是玉米芯做成的木炭。
09:13
This is corncobs turned into charcoal.
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09:16
And the beauty of this is that you don't need to form briquettes --
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最棒的是,你不需要把它壓成餅狀。
09:19
it comes ready made.
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原本就已成型了。這正是我的百元電腦。
09:20
This is my $100 laptop, right here.
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09:23
And actually, like Nick, I brought samples.
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我其實跟尼克一樣有帶樣品來。
09:26
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
09:28
So we can pass these around.
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我們可以傳著看一下。
09:32
They're fully functional, field-tested, ready to roll out.
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玉米芯炭完全實用,實地測試過,且即可上市。
09:36
(Laughter)
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09:40
And I think one of the things
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我認為,關於這技術的另一個值得注意的事
09:42
which is also remarkable about this technology,
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就是這技術是非常容易轉移的。
09:46
is that the technology transfer is so easy.
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09:49
Compared to the sugarcane charcoal,
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比起甘蔗渣木炭,
09:51
where we have to teach people how to form it into briquettes
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我們必須教人如何做炭餅,
09:54
and you have the extra step of cooking the binder,
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而且還多個步驟,必需熬煮黏著劑,
09:56
this comes pre-briquetted.
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玉米芯炭則完全不用。
09:58
And this is about the most exciting thing in my life right now,
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這大致上就是我現在生命中最興奮的事,
10:01
which is perhaps a sad commentary on my life.
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也許對我的生活來說,是個蠻可悲的註解。
10:04
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:06
But once you see it, like you guys in the front row --
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可是一旦你看過之後,就像現在前排的你們,就會認同
10:09
All right, yeah, OK.
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對吧,總之,就是這樣 ...
10:10
So anyway --
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10:11
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
10:13
Here it is.
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我認為這是個完美的例子
10:14
And this is, I think, a perfect example
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10:17
of what Robert Wright was talking about in those non-zero-sum things.
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說明羅伯•賴特所說的「非零和」。
10:22
So not only do you have health benefits,
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這不只對健康有好處,
10:25
you have environmental benefits.
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還更環保。
10:27
But this is one of the incredibly rare situations
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而且是極為少見的
能夠創造經濟效益的例子。
10:31
where you also have economic benefits.
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10:33
People can make their own cooking fuel from waste products.
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人們可以用廢料製造自己的烹飪燃料,
10:36
They can generate income from this.
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並從中製造營收。
10:38
They can save the money that they were going to spend on charcoal
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他們可以節省原本需要購買木炭的錢,
10:41
and they can produce excess and sell it in the market
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製造額外的玉米芯炭
10:44
to people who aren't making their own.
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拿到市場賣給不自己製造的人。
10:46
It's really rare that you don't have trade-offs
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很少見到
10:48
between health and economics, or environment and economics.
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在健康和經濟之間或環境和經濟之間是沒有抵換的。
10:51
So this is a project that I just find extremely exciting
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因此,這是讓我覺得極度興奮的計畫,
10:55
and I'm really looking forward to see where it takes us.
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也期待它將引領我們創造的未來。
現在,當我們談到將被創造的未來,
11:03
So when we talk about, now, the future we will create,
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11:06
one of the things that I think is necessary
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其中我認為必須要有的
11:08
is to have a very clear vision of the world that we live in.
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就是對我們所生存的世界要有很清楚的遠見。
11:13
And now, I don't actually mean the world that we live in.
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我並不是指大多數的我們居住的這個世界。
11:16
I mean the world where women spend two to three hours everyday
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而是指女人們每天花兩三個小時
11:21
grinding grain for their families to eat.
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輾磨榖粒給家人吃的那個世界。
11:24
I mean the world where advanced building materials
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我是指當「先進建材」
11:27
means cement roofing tiles that are made by hand,
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指的是手工水泥屋瓦的那個世界,
11:30
and where, when you work 10 hours a day,
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以及即使每天工作十小時,
11:32
you're still only earning 60 dollars in a month.
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每個月還是只賺 60 塊美元的那個世界。
11:37
I mean the world
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在我所說的世界,女人和小孩們每年總共花四百億小時在打水。
11:38
where women and children spend 40 billion hours a year fetching water.
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11:45
That's as if the entire workforce of the state of California
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等於是加州所有的工作人口
11:49
worked full time for a year doing nothing but fetching water.
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一年工作全職專門只是打水。
11:53
It's a place where, for example, if this were India,
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那是一個這樣的地方,例如,如果這裡是印度,
11:58
in this room, only three of us would have a car.
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在這演講廳中的我們,只有三人擁有汽車。
12:01
If this were Afghanistan,
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如果這裡是阿富汗,
12:02
only one person in this room would know how the use the Internet.
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只有一人懂得如何使用網路。
12:06
If this were Zambia --
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如果這裡是尚比亞,你們當中的 300 人會是農夫,
12:08
300 of you would be farmers,
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12:11
100 of you would have AIDS or HIV.
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100 人會有愛滋病。
12:14
And more than half of you would be living on less than a dollar a day.
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超過一半的人,每天的生活費少於一塊美金。
這些都是我們必須想出解決辦法的問題。
12:19
These are the issues that we need to come up with solutions for.
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這些是我們必須訓練我們的工程師、
12:24
These are the issues that we need to be training our engineers,
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12:27
our designers, our business people, our entrepreneurs to be facing.
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設計師、商人、企業家去面對的問題。
12:32
These are the solutions that we need to find.
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這些是我們必須找到的解答。
12:35
I have a few areas that I believe are especially important that we address.
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這裡有幾點我認為是特別值得去注意的。
一個是創造技術以提倡微型金融及微型企業,
12:41
One of them is creating technologies
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12:43
to promote micro-finance and micro-enterprise,
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12:46
so that people who are living below the poverty line
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讓住在貧窮當中的人可以設法脫離貧困,
12:49
can find a way to move out --
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12:50
and that they're not doing it
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且不是透過
12:52
using the same traditional basket making, poultry rearing, etc.
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傳統的編籃工藝、飼養家畜等等。
12:55
But there are new technologies and new products
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而是讓他們以小規模
12:58
that they can make on a small scale.
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製造新技術和新產品
13:00
The next thing I believe
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另一個我相信的是,我們需要爲貧窮的農夫提供技術
13:02
is that we need to create technologies for poor farmers
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13:06
to add value to their own crops.
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使農作物增加價值。
13:09
And we need to rethink our development strategies,
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也必須重新思考我們的開發策略,
13:12
so that we're not promoting educational campaigns
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讓我們不會提倡教育制度
13:15
to get them to stop being farmers,
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來阻止他們成為農夫,
13:17
but rather to stop being poor farmers.
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而是阻止他們成為貧窮的農夫。
13:20
And we need to think about how we can do that effectively.
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我們必須思考如何有效率地達到目的。
13:24
We need to work with the people in these communities
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我們必須跟當地居民一起合作,
13:27
and give them the resources and the tools that they need
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提供他們所需的資源和工具
13:30
to solve their own problems.
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來解決他們自己的問題。這才是最好的辦法。
13:31
That's the best way to do it.
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13:33
We shouldn't be doing it from outside.
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我們不應該在外部做事。
13:35
So we need to create this future, and we need to start doing it now.
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我們必須創造這樣的未來,而且必須就從今天開始做起。
13:40
Thank you.
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謝謝各位
13:41
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:46
Chris Anderson: Thank you, incredible.
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13:49
Stay here.
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13:51
Tell us -- just while we see if someone has a question --
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克里斯•安德森:在別人提問之前先告訴我們
13:54
just tell us about one of the other things that you've worked on.
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另一個你做過的計畫。
13:57
Amy Smith: Some of the other things we're working on
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艾美•史密斯:其它我們正在努力的有,
找出低成本可測試水品質的辦法,
14:00
are ways to do low-cost water quality testing,
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14:02
so that communities can maintain their own water systems,
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讓居民能維持他們自己的水系統,
14:05
know when they're working, know when they treat them, etc.
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知道何時系統良好、知道何時該處理水等等。
14:07
We're also looking at low-cost water-treatment systems.
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另外也在設法建造低成本的廢水處理系統。
14:10
One of the really exciting things is looking at solar water disinfection
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其中相當令人興奮的就是太陽能消毒裝置,
14:14
and improving the ability to be able to do that.
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以及改進裝置的功能性。
14:17
CA: What's the bottleneck preventing this stuff getting from scale?
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克里斯:是什麼瓶頸阻礙了這些東西的推行呢?
14:21
Do you need to find entrepreneurs, or venture capitalists,
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你需要找企業家或是創投家嗎,
14:24
or what do you need to take what you've got and get it to scale?
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你需要什麼來推行你手上的技術呢?
14:29
AS: I think it's large numbers of people moving it forward.
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艾美:我想是有大量的人來推動這些計畫。
14:32
It's a difficult thing --
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困難的是市場非常零碎,
14:33
it's a marketplace which is very fragmented
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14:35
and a consumer population with no income.
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消費人口也沒有收入。
14:37
So you can't use the same models that you use in the United States
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所以你無法用美國的模式
14:41
for making things move forward.
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來讓事情有進展。
14:42
And we're a pretty small staff,
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而且我們的員工很少,就只有我而已。
14:44
which is me.
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14:45
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
14:47
So, you know, I do what I can with the students.
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所以我盡力與學生一起努力。
14:50
We have 30 students a year go out into the field
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每年有 30 位學生到現場去
14:52
and try to implement this and move it forward.
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嘗試執行和推動這理念。
14:54
The other thing is you have to do things with a long time frame,
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另外就是你必須長期進行,
14:58
as, you know, you can't expect to get something done in a year or two years;
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你不能期待一兩年就把事情做完。
15:02
you have to be looking five or 10 years ahead.
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你必須投入五或十年的時間。
15:04
But I think with the vision to do that, we can move forward.
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不過只要有這個願景,我們就能向前邁進。
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