Why I have coffee with people who send me hate mail | Özlem Cekic

翻译人员: Danyang Luo 校对人员: jacks peng

My inbox is full of hate mails and personal abuse

我的收件箱充斥着很多仇恨 和对我人身攻击的邮件，

and has been for years.

且已经持续数年。

In 2010, I started answering those mails

在2010年，我开始回复这些邮件，

and suggesting to the writer that we might meet for coffee and a chat.

向寄信人提议见面， 喝杯咖啡聊聊天。

I have had hundreds of encounters.

我有了数百次的会见。

They have taught me something important that I want to share with you.

他们教会了我很多 我想要与你们分享的重要道理。

I was born in Turkey from Kurdish parents

我出生在土耳其，父母是库尔德人。

and we moved to Denmark when I was a young child.

在我很小的时候， 我们全家就搬到了丹麦。

In 2007, I ran for a seat in the Danish parliament

2007年，作为第一个 有少数民族背景的女性，

as one of the first women with a minority background.

我参加了丹麦议员的竞选。

I was elected,

我当选了。

but I soon found out that not everyone was happy about it

但我很快发现并不是 所有人都对这结果感到高兴。

as I had to quickly get used to finding hate messages in my inbox.

我收到了很多仇恨邮件。

Those emails would begin with something like this:

这些邮件可能以这样的方式开头：

"What's a raghead like you doing in our parliament?"

“你这个头上裹着烂布的人 在我们的议会里干什么？”

I never answered.

我从不回信。

I'd just delete the emails.

我只是删掉这些邮件。

I just thought that the senders and I had nothing in common.

我想，这些人和我毫无交集，

They didn't understand me,

他们不理解我，

and I didn't understand them.

我也不理解他们。

Then one day, one of my colleagues in the parliament said

直到有一天，议会里 的一个同事跟我说，

that I should save the hate mails.

我应该留下这些仇恨邮件。

"When something happens to you, it will give the police a lead."

“当你遭遇不测， 这些邮件能给警方提供线索。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I noticed that she said, "When something happens" and not "if."

我注意到她说的是 “当你遭遇不测”，不是“如果”。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Sometimes hateful letters were also sent to my home address.

有时候这些仇恨邮件 也会寄到我家里。

The more I became involved in public debate,

我越多地参与到公开辩论，

the more hate mail and threats I received.

我收到的仇恨邮件和威胁就越多。

After a while, I got a secret address

没过多久，我弄来了一个秘密地址，

and I had to take extra precautions to protect my family.

我需要更加警惕我家人的安全。

Then in 2010, a Nazi began to harass me.

2010年，一个纳粹分子开始骚扰我。

It was a man who had attacked Muslim women on the street.

这是一个曾经在街上 攻击过穆斯林女性的人。

Over time, it became much worse.

一段时间后，情况进一步恶化了。

I was at the zoo with my children, and the phone was ringing constantly.

我和我的孩子在动物园玩耍时， 我的手机会不时响起。

It was the Nazi.

打来的是那个纳粹分子。

I had the impression that he was close.

我感到他就在我附近。

We headed home.

我和我孩子启程回家。

When we got back,

当我们到家后，

my son asked, "Why does he hate you so much, Mom,

我儿子问我：“妈妈， 为什么他那么讨厌你，

when he doesn't even know you?"

他根本不认识你？”

"Some people are just stupid," I said.

我说：“有些人只是愚蠢。”

And at the time, I actually thought that was a pretty clever answer.

在那会儿，我觉得这是 一个非常聪明的回答。

And I suspect that that is the answer most of us would give.

我想这也是很多人会给出的答案。

The others --

其他人—

they are stupid, brainwashed, ignorant.

他们都是愚蠢的， 被洗脑的，无知的。

We are the good guys and they are the bad guys, period.

我们是好人，他们是坏人。

Several weeks later I was at a friend's house,

几周后，我在一个朋友的家里，

and I was very upset and angry about all the hate and racism I had met.

抱怨我所遇到的 所有仇恨和种族歧视。

It was he who suggested that I should call them up

我朋友建议我打电话给他们，

and visit them.

去拜访他们。

"They will kill me," I said.

我说：“他们会把我杀了的。”

"They would never attack a member of the Danish Parliament," he said.

他说：“他们不会攻击 一个丹麦议会成员。”

"And anyway, if they killed you, you would become a martyr."

“而且就算他们杀了你， 你也会是一名烈士。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"So it's pure win-win situation for you."

“所以对你来说 这是一个双赢的局面。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

His advice was so unexpected,

我完全没料到他会这样建议。

when I got home,

当我回到家，

I turned on my computer

打开我的电脑，

and opened the folder where I had saved all the hate mail.

打开保存所有仇恨邮件的文件夹。

There were literally hundreds of them.

不夸张的说，有成百上千封这样的邮件。

Emails that started with words like "terrorist,"

这些邮件大都以 这样的文字开头“恐怖分子“，

"raghead,"

“头上裹烂布的人”，

"rat," "whore."

“卑鄙小人”，“婊子”。

I decided to contact the one who had sent me the most.

我决定联系那个 发最多邮件给我的人。

His name was Ingolf.

他的名字是Ingolf。

I decided to contact him just once so I could say at least I had tried.

我决定只和他联系一次， 这样子我可以说，至少我尝试过了。

To my surprise and shock,

令我感到意外和震惊的是，

he answered the phone.

他接了电话。

I blurted out, "Hello, my name is Özlem. You have sent me so many hate mails.

我脱口而出：“你好，我是Özlem。 你给我发了很多封仇恨邮件。

You don't know me, I don't know you.

你都不认识我，我也不认识你。

I was wondering if I could come around and we can drink a coffee together

我在想我能不能前来拜访， 一起喝杯咖啡

and talk about it?"

聊一下？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

There was silence on the line.

电话那头是一阵沉默。

And then he said,

然后他说到：

"I have to ask my wife."

“我要问一下我妻子。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

What?

什么？

The racist has a wife?

这个种族歧视者有老婆？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

A couple of days later, we met at his house.

几天后，我在他家里见到了他。

I will never forget when he opened his front door

我永远不会忘记 当他打开家门

and reached out to shake my hand.

伸出手跟我握手的场景。

I felt so disappointed.

我感到非常失望。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

because he looked nothing like I'd imagined.

因为他跟我想象的一点都不一样。

I had expected a horrible person --

我想，他会是一个很可怕的人，

dirty, messy house.

住在一间脏乱的房子里。

It was not.

但并不是这样的。

His house smelled of coffee

他的房子充满了咖啡的香味，

which was served from a coffee set identical to the one my parents used.

装咖啡的杯子跟我我父母的 其中一套咖啡杯一模一样。

I ended up staying for two and a half hours.

最后我在那待了两个半小时。

And we had so many things in common.

我们有很多一样的地方。

Even our prejudices were alike.

甚至我们的偏见都很相似。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Ingolf told me that when he waits for the bus

Ingolf告诉我当他在等公交车时，

and the bus stops 10 meters away from him,

公交车会停在离他10米远的地方，

it was because the driver was a "raghead."

因为公交车司机是一个 “裹穆斯林头巾的人”

I recognized that feeling.

我理解这种感受。

When I was young

我小时候，

and I waited for the bus

也在等公交车时，

and it stopped 10 meters away from me,

公交车会停在离我10米远的地方，

I was sure that the driver was a racist.

我很确定司机是个种族歧视分子。

When I got home,

当我回到家，

I was very ambivalent about my experience.

我对我的经历感到很矛盾。

On the one hand, I really liked Ingolf.

一方面，我真的很喜欢Ingolf。

He was easy and pleasant to talk to,

他很容易相处而且跟他聊天很开心，

but on the other hand,

但另一方面，

I couldn't stand the idea of having so much in common

我不能忍受我与一个有 这样明显种族歧视的人

with someone who had such clearly racist views.

有那么多共同之处。

Gradually,

慢慢地，

and painfully,

而且痛苦地，

I came to realize

我终于意识到

that I had been just as judgmental of those who had sent me hate mails

我其实也在批判那些 给我发过仇恨邮件的人，

as they had been of me.

就像他们曾经对我那样。

This was the beginning of what I call #dialoguecoffee.

这就是我所提到的 “#聊天咖啡”的开端。

Basically, I sit down for coffee

也就是，坐下来跟曾经对我说过

with people who have said the most terrible things to me

最吓人的话的人喝喝咖啡，

to try to understand why they hate people like me

试着去理解为什么 他们这么讨厌像我这样的人，

when they don't even know me.

甚至在他们都不认识我时。

I have been doing this the last eight years.

我在过去的八年里都做着这样的事。

The vast majority of people I approach agree to meet me.

绝大部分我联系到的人 都同意和我见面。

Most of them are men,

这里面很大一部分是男性，

but I have also met women.

但我也见过女性。

I have made it a rule to always meet them in their house

我制定了一条规定： 总是在他们家里见面，

to convey from the outset that I trust them.

从一开始就传达出我对他们的信任。

I always bring food because when we eat together,

我总会带着食物前往， 因为当我们一起吃东西的时候，

it is easier to find what we have in common

比较容易找到我们的共通之处，

and make peace together.

让我们能和平相处。

Along the way, I have learned some valuable lessons.

在这段经历中，我学到了 一些很重要的东西。

The people who sent hate mails are workers,

发仇恨邮件的人会是工人、

husbands, wives,

丈夫、妻子、

parents like you and me.

父母， 就像你和我一样。

I'm not saying that their behavior is acceptable,

我不是说他们的行为 是可以被接受的，

but I have learned to distance myself from the hateful views

但是我学会了在远离这些充满恶意 的情况下，

without distancing myself from the person who's expressing those views.

不远离表达这些观点的人。

And I have discovered

然后我发现

that the people I visit are just as afraid of people they don't know

我拜访的人们其实 只是害怕他们不了解的人，

as I was afraid of them before I started inviting myself for coffee.

就像我邀请他们同饮咖啡前 对他们的恐惧。

During these meetings, a specific theme keeps coming up.

这些会面都围绕着同一个主题。

It shows up regardless whether I'm talking to a humanist or a racist,

不论与我交谈的是一个人文主义者， 或是种族主义者，

a man, a woman,

男性或女性，

a Muslim or an atheist.

穆斯林或无神论者。

They all seem to think

他们都认为

that other people are to blame for the hate

仇恨，还有种族的概化

and for the generalization of groups.

都是其他人的错。

They all believe that other people have to stop demonizing.

他们认为其他人必须要停止妖魔化。

They point at politicians, the media, their neighbor

他们把矛头对准政客， 媒体，邻居，

or the bus driver who stops 10 meters away.

还有把公交车停在十米之外的司机。

But when I asked, "What about you?

但当我问道：“那你呢？

What can you do?",

你能做些什么？”

the reply is usually,

回答大都是：

"What can I do?

“我能做些什么？

I have no influence.

我毫无影响力，

I have no power."

也没有权力。”

I know that feeling.

我感同身受。

For a large part of my life,

我人生中的很长一段时间也认为

I also thought that I didn't have any power or influence --

我没有权力或是影响力——

even when I was a member of the Danish parliament.

即使我是一名丹麦国会议员。

But today I know the reality is different.

但现在我想，事实并非如此。

We all have power and influence where we are,

不论我们在哪儿， 我们都有权力和影响力，

so we must never,

所以我们永远不可以

never underestimate our own potential.

低估我们的潜能。

The #dialoguecoffee meetings have taught me

“#聊天咖啡”教会我的是

that people of all political convictions can be caught demonizing

任何拥有政治信念的人都可能妖魔化

the others with different views.

拥有不同观点的人。

I know what I'm talking about.

我知道我在说些什么。

As a young child, I hated different population groups.

在我很小的时候， 我讨厌不同的种群。

And at the time, my religious views were very extreme.

那时，我的宗教观非常极端。

But my friendship with Turks, with Danes, with Jews and with racists

但我与土耳其人，丹麦人， 犹太人还有种族主义者的友谊

has vaccinated me against my own prejudices.

改变了我的偏见。

I grew up in a working-class family,

我出生于一个工人阶级家庭。

and on my journey I have met many people who have insisted on speaking to me.

在我的旅程中，我见到了 许多人坚持同我谈话。

They have changed my views.

他们改变了我的很多观点。

They have formed me as a democratic citizen and a bridge builder.

他们让我成为了一个民主的公民， 一个桥梁的搭建者。

If you want to prevent hate and violence,

如果你想阻止仇恨和暴力，

we have to talk to as many people as possible

你需要尽可能多地和人沟通，

for as long as possible

坚持地越久越好，

while being as open as possible.

同时越开放越好。

That can only be achieved through debate,

做到的唯一方式是去辩论，

critical conversation

去批判性交谈

and insisting on dialogue that doesn't demonize people.

并在对话中不将别人妖魔化。

I'm going to ask you a question.

我想问问大家。

I invite you to think about it when you get home and in the coming days,

我想让你们在回家后 的几天里思考一下，

but you have to be honest with yourself.

但你要对自己坦诚相待。

It should be easy, no one else will know it.

这很简单， 没有其他人会知道。

The question is this ...

这个问题是......

who do you demonize?

你把谁妖魔化了？

Do you think supporters of American President Trump are deplorables?

你是否认为美国总统川普 的支持者是可悲的？

Or that those who voted for Turkish President Erdoğan are crazy Islamists?

投票給土耳其总统埃尔多安 的人是疯狂的伊斯兰教徒？

Or that those who voted for Le Pen in France are stupid fascists?

认为在法国投票给勒朋的人 是愚蠢的法西斯？

Or perhaps you think that Americans who voted for Bernie Sanders

又或者，在美国投票给 伯尼·桑德斯的是

are immature hippies.

幼稚的嬉皮士。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

All those words have been used to vilify those groups.

这些词汇都是对他们的诽谤。

Maybe at this point, do you think I am an idealist?

或许在此刻， 你认为我是一个理想主义者？

I want to give you a challenge.

我想给各位一个挑战。

Before the end of this year,

在今年结束前，

I challenge you to invite someone who you demonize --

我想你们去邀请一位 被你妖魔化的人——

someone who you disagree with politically and/or culturally

一个与你有不同政见 或是文化背景，

and don't think you have anything in common with.

你认为和你毫无共同之处的人。

I challenge you to invite someone like this to #dialoguecoffee.

我想你邀请这样一个人进行 “#聊天咖啡”。

Remember Ingolf?

还记得Ingolf么？

Basically, I'm asking you to find an Ingolf in your life,

确切来说，我想你找到 生活里的Ingolf，

contact him or her

联系他或她，

and suggest that you can meet for #dialoguecofee.

提议你们可以共饮“#聊天咖啡”。

When you start at #dialoguecoffee, you have to remember this:

当你开始“聊天咖啡”时， 你需要记得：

first, don't give up if the person refuses at first.

第一点，不要轻易放弃 对方的第一次拒绝。

Sometimes it's taken me nearly one year to arrange a #dialoguecoffee meeting.

有时我会花上一年的时间 来预约一场“#聊天咖啡”。

Two:

第二：

acknowledge the other person's courage.

感激对方的勇气。

It isn't just you who's brave.

并不只有你是勇敢的。

The one who's inviting you into their home is just as brave.

邀请你到他家去的人也很勇敢。

Three:

第三：

don't judge during the conversation.

不要在交谈中批判对方，

Make sure that most of the conversation focuses on what you have in common.

注意你们的关注点应该是你们的共同点。

As I said, bring food.

像我所说的那样，带点食物。

And finally, remember to finish the conversation in a positive way

最后记得积极正面地结束谈话，

because you are going to meet again.

因为你们会再次相遇。

A bridge can't be built in one day.

冰冻三尺非一日之寒。

We are living in a world where many people hold definitive and often extreme opinions

我们生活在一个大多数人 对其他人持有

狭隘或是极端的评价的世界里，

about the others

without knowing much about them.

但其实对他人所知甚少。

We notice of course the prejudices on the other side than in our own bases.

我们更多地注意到他人的偏见 而非我们自己的。

And we ban them from our lives.

我们把他们排斥在了 我们的人生之外。

We delete the hate mails.

我们删掉那些仇恨邮件。

We hang out only with people who think like us

我们只与思想相近的人一起消遣，

and talk about the others in a category of disdain.

以一种鄙夷的态度讨论他人。

We unfriend people on Facebook,

我们删除Facebook里的好友，

and when we meet people who are discriminating

当我们遇到歧视，

or dehumanizing people or groups,

或是妖魔化他人的人时，

we don't insist on speaking with them to challenge their opinions.

我们不会坚持和他们交谈， 来挑战他们的观点。

That's how healthy democratic societies break down --

这正是健康民主社会的分崩所在——

when we don't check the personal responsibility for the democracy.

我们不再审视个人在民主上的责任。

We take the democracy for granted.

我们将民主视为理所当然。

It is not.

但事实并非如此。

Conversation is the most difficult thing in a democracy

在民主中，交谈是最困难的，

and also the most important.

也是最重要的。

So here's my challenge.

所以，这是我提出的挑战。

Find your Ingolf.

寻找你的Ingolf。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Start a conversation.

开启一次对话。

Trenches have been dug between people, yes,

是的，人与人之间有 不可逾越的鸿沟，

but we all have the ability to build the bridges that cross the trenches.

但我们有能力在鸿沟上建起桥梁。

And let me end by quoting my friend,

最后，让我引用我朋友

Sergeot Uzan,

Sergeot Uzan的一句话，

who lost his son, Dan Uzan, in a terror attack

他在2015在哥本哈根 的一个犹太教堂里的

on a Jewish synagogue in Copenhagen, 2015.

一次恐怖袭击中失去了 他的儿子 Dan Uzan。

Sergio rejected any suggestion of revenge

Sergio回绝了报复的建议，

and instead said this ...

反而说到：

"Evil can only be defeated by kindness between people.

“罪恶只能被仁慈打败，

Kindness demands courage."

而仁慈需要勇气。”

Dear friends,

亲爱的朋友们，

let's be courageous.

愿勇气与我们同在。

Thank you.

谢谢！

(Applause)

（鼓掌）