Do kids think of sperm donors as family? | Veerle Provoost

翻译人员: Conway Ye 校对人员: Chen Zou

What is a parent?

什么是父母？

What is a parent?

什么是父母？

这不是一个简单的问题。

It's not an easy question.

Today we have adoption,

当今我们有领养制度，

再婚家庭，

stepfamilies,

surrogate mothers.

代孕母亲，

Many parents face tough questions

很多父母面对着困难的问题

和艰难的选择。

and tough decisions.

Shall we tell our child about the sperm donation?

我们应该告诉我们的孩子 关于精子捐赠的事情吗？

If so, when?

什么时间比较合适呢？

我们该怎样措辞？

What words to use?

Sperm donors are often referred to as "biological fathers,"

精子捐赠者常被称为 “生物学的父亲”，

but should we really be using the word "father?"

但是我们真的应该 用“父亲”这个词吗？

As a philosopher and social scientist,

作为一个哲学家和社会科学家，

我一直在研究这些关于 父母概念的问题。

I have been studying these questions about the concept of parenthood.

但是今天，我将告诉你们

But today, I will talk to you about what I learned

我从和父母以及孩子的交谈中所学到的。

from talking to parents and children.

I will show you that they know what matters most in a family,

我会告诉你们，他们 知道对一个家庭来说，什么最重要，

even though their family looks a little different.

即使他们的家庭 看起来有点不一样。

我会介绍他们富有创造力的 解决这些疑难问题的方法。

I will show you their creative ways of dealing with tough questions.

But I will also show you the parents' uncertainties.

但是我也会告诉你们 父母的不确定感。

We interviewed couples

我们采访了

who received fertility treatment at Ghent University Hospital,

在根特大学医院接受受孕治疗的

使用捐献者精子的夫妇。

using sperm from a donor.

In this treatment timeline,

在这个治疗时间线上，

you can see two points at which we conducted interviews.

你能看到我们采访的两个时间点。

We included heterosexual couples,

我们包括了异性恋夫妇，

其中男性因为一些原因 没有高质量精子，

where the man for some reason did not have good-quality sperm,

and lesbian couples who obviously needed to find sperm elsewhere.

我们也包括了女同性恋伴侣， 她们很明显需要寻找精子。

We also included children.

我们也包含了孩子。

I wanted to know

我想知道

how those children define concepts like parenthood and family.

那些孩子是怎样定义 像父母和家庭这样的概念的。

事实上，这就是我问他们的问题，

In fact, that is what I asked them,

only not in that way.

只是用不同的方式。

I drew an apple tree instead.

我画了一个苹果树。

这样，我可以问抽象的， 富有哲学性的问题，

This way, I could ask abstract, philosophical questions

in a way that did not make them run off.

这种方式不会让他们想要逃避。

So as you can see,

你们能看到，

苹果树是空的。

the apple tree is empty.

And that illustrates my research approach.

这表现了我的实验方式。

By designing techniques like this,

通过设计像这样的方法，

I can bring as little meaning and content as possible to the interview,

我能够使采访尽可能 少包含实际意义和内容。

because I want to hear that from them.

因为我想从他们那里听到这些。

I asked them:

我问他们：

What would your family look like if it were an apple tree?

如果你的家庭是 一棵苹果树，它看起来是怎样的？

And they could take a paper apple for everyone who, in their view,

然后他们可以拿一个纸做的苹果， 代表他们眼中的

was a member of the family,

一个家庭成员，

在上面写上名字， 并挂在他们想挂的地方。

write a name on it and hang it wherever they wanted.

然后我会问问题。

And I would ask questions.

绝大多数孩子会从 父母或兄弟姐妹开始。

Most children started with a parent or a sibling.

One started with "Boxer,"

一个孩子以“拳击手”开始，

the dead dog of his grandparents.

那是他祖父母死去的狗。

At this point, none of the children started mentioning the donor.

这个时候，没有孩子提到精子捐赠者。

So, I asked them about their birth story.

于是，我问了关于他们出生的故事。

我说：“在你出生之前，

I said, "Before you were born,

只有你的妈妈和爸爸，

it was just your mom and dad,

or mom and mommy.

或者妈妈和妈妈。

Can you tell me how you came into the family?"

你能告诉我你是怎么 来到这个家庭的吗？”

And they explained.

然后他们解释了。

One said,

一个说，

"My parents did not have good seeds,

“我的父母没有好的种子，

but there are friendly men out there who have spare seeds.

但是有友好的人拥有多余的种子。

他们把种子带到医院，

They bring them to the hospital,

然后放到一个大罐子里。

and they put them in a big jar.

My mommy went there,

我的妈妈去了医院

and she took two from the jar,

然后她从罐子里拿了两个，

one for me and one for my sister.

一个为了我，一个为了我的妹妹。

She put the seeds in her belly --

她把种子放到她的肚子里——

不知道怎么放进去的——

somehow --

她的肚子变的很大。

and her belly grew really big,

and there I was."

然后就有了我。”

Hmm.

哦。

所以只有当他们开始 提到精子捐赠者时，

So only when they started mentioning the donor,

我才用他们的语言问关于他的问题。

I asked questions about him, using their own words.

I said,

我说，

"If this would be an apple for the friendly man with the seeds,

“如果这个苹果代表 有种子的友好的人，

what would you do with it?"

你会把它放在哪里？”

然后一个男孩努力地想了半天，

And one boy was thinking out loud,

holding the apple.

手里还拿着苹果。

And he said,

然后他说，

"I won't put this one up there with the others.

“我不会把这个苹果和其它的放在一起。

He's not part of my family.

他不是我家庭的一部分。

But I will not put him on the ground.

但是我不会把他放在冰冷的地上，

那太没有人情味儿了。

That's too cold and too hard.

我觉得他应该在树干里，

I think he should be in the trunk,

because he made my family possible.

因为他让我的家庭成为了可能。

If he would not have done this,

如果他没有做这些，

那就太遗憾了， 因为我的家庭就不会存在了，

that would really be sad because my family would not be here,

那么我也不会在这里了。”

and I would not be here."

So also, parents constructed family tales --

父母们就这样编织了家庭故事——

tales to tell their children.

用来告诉他们的孩子。

One couple explained their insemination

一对父母还把他们的孩子带到农场

by taking their children to a farm

观看兽医给牛受精，

to watch a vet inseminate cows.

给他们解释受精的过程。

And why not?

为什么不呢？

这是他们的解释方式；

It's their way of explaining;

their do-it-yourself with family narratives.

他们自己编织的家庭故事。

DIY.

DIY。

And we had another couple who made books --

我们还有一对父母制作了书籍——

a book for each child.

给每一个孩子。

They were really works of art

那些真的是艺术，

containing their thoughts and feelings throughout the treatment.

包含了他们在受孕治疗期间的 想法和感情。

They even had the hospital parking tickets in there.

甚至还有医院停车场的罚单在里面。

So it is DIY:

所以这是DIY。

finding ways, words and images

找到方法、文字和图片

to tell your family story to your child.

来向你的孩子讲述你的家庭故事。

And these stories were highly diverse,

而且这些故事非常多样化，

but they all had one thing in common:

但是有一件事情是一样的：

it was a tale of longing for a child

那是共同渴望一个孩子，

and a quest for that child.

以及获得那个孩子的故事。

It was about how special and how deeply loved their child was.

这是关于他们的孩子 是多么特殊和被爱护。

目前的研究表明， 这些孩子都在健康成长。

And research so far shows that these children are doing fine.

They do not have more problems than other kids.

他们不比同龄孩子存在更多的问题。

Yet, these parents also wanted to justify their decisions

然而，这些父母也想通过讲故事，

through the tales they tell.

来解释他们的选择。

They hoped that their children would understand their reasons

他们希望孩子能够理解他们

通过这样的方式建造家庭的原因。

for making the family in this way.

Underlying was a fear that their children might disapprove

深层的是担心他们的孩子 可能不会支持，

and would reject the non-genetic parent.

或排斥非亲生的父母。

And that fear is understandable,

那种恐惧是可以理解的，

因为我们生活在一个异性恋主导

because we live in a very heteronormative

and geneticized society --

和重视血脉的社会——

a world that still believes

一个依旧相信真正的家庭是由

that true families consist of one mom, one dad

一个母亲和一个父亲组成的，

而且他们和孩子是基因相连的世界。

and their genetically related children.

Well.

这无可厚非。

不过我想告诉你一个 十几岁的男孩的故事。

I want to tell you about a teenage boy.

He was donor-conceived but not part of our study.

他的出生是精子捐赠的结果， 但不是我们研究的一部分。

One day, he had an argument with his father,

一天，他和他的父亲起了争执，

and he yelled,

他大吼，

"You're telling me what to do?

“你告诉我我应该做什么？

You're not even my father!"

你甚至都不是我的父亲！”

That was exactly what the parents in our study feared.

这正是我们研究里的父母担心的。

Now, the boy soon felt sorry, and they made up.

那个男孩很快感到自己失言了， 并与父亲重归于好。

But it is the reaction of his father that is most interesting.

但是他父亲的反应是非常有趣的。

他说，

He said,

"This outburst had nothing to do with the lack of a genetic link.

“这次爆发和缺少基因联系不相关。

It was about puberty --

和青春期有关——

叛逆。

being difficult.

It's what they do at that age.

是他们那个阶段的孩子 都会做的事情。

It will pass."

会过去的。”

What this man shows us

这个男人告诉我们的是，

is that when something goes wrong,

当事情不对的时候，

we should not immediately think

我们不应该当即认为

是因为家庭有点不一样。

it is because the family is a little different.

These things happen in all families.

这些事情在所有的 家庭里都会发生。

And every now and then,

而且有的时候，

all parents may wonder:

所有的父母都会怀疑：

Am I a good enough parent?

我是一个称职的父母吗？

这些父母也会。

These parents, too.

毕竟，他们想要把最好的留给孩子。

They, above all, wanted to do what's best for their child.

But they also sometimes wondered:

但是他们有时候会怀疑：

我是真正的父母吗？

Am I a real parent?

And their uncertainties were present long before they even were parents.

而且他们的不确定感 在他们成为父母很久之前就产生了。

At the start of treatment,

在受孕治疗开始时，

when they first saw the counselor,

当他们第一次见到咨询师，

他们对咨询师的话非常重视，

they paid close attention to the counselor,

because they wanted to do it right.

因为他们不想有任何闪失。

Even 10 years later,

甚至10年后，

他们还能记得当初被给予的建议。

they still remember the advice they were given.

所以当他们想起咨询师

So when they thought about the counselor

and the advice they were given,

和被给予的建议时，

we discussed that.

我们也讨论过。

And we saw one lesbian couple who said,

我们见过的一对女同性恋说，

"When our son asks us,

“当我们的儿子问我们

'Do I have a dad?'

‘我有爸爸吗？’

we will say 'No, you do not have a dad.'

我们会说：‘不，你没有爸爸。’

But we will say nothing more, not unless he asks,

但是我们不会多说， 除非他问起。

因为他可能还没有准备好。

because he might not be ready for that.

The counselor said so."

咨询师是这样建议的。”

Well.

好吧。

我不确定，这和我们回答

I don't know; that's quite different

孩子的问题有些不一样。

from how we respond to children's questions.

Like, "Milk -- is that made in a factory?"

比如“牛奶－是从工厂里制作出来的吗？”

We will say, "No, it comes from cows,"

我们会说：“不，它是来自奶牛。”

and we will talk about the farmer,

而且我们会谈论关于农场，

and the way the milk ends up in the shop.

以及牛奶到达商店的过程。

We will not say,

我们不会点到为止地说，

“不，牛奶不是来自工厂。”

"No, milk is not made in a factory."

所以一些奇怪的事情发生了，

So something strange happened here,

and of course these children noticed that.

当然这些孩子注意到了。

One boy said,

一个男孩说，

"I asked my parents loads of questions,

“我问了我的父母一大堆的问题，

but they acted really weird.

但他们的表现很奇怪。

So, you know, I have a friend at school, and she's made in the same way.

我在学校有个朋友， 她也是通过同样的方式出生的。

When I have a question, I just go and ask her."

所以当我有问题的时候，我就去问她。“

Clever guy.

聪明的家伙。

Problem solved.

问题解决了。

But his parents did not notice,

但是他的父母并没有注意到，

and it certainly was not what they had in mind,

而且这肯定不是他们所想的，

nor what the counselor had in mind

也不是咨询师所想的，

当他们阐述开放沟通的 家庭是多么重要的时候。

when they were saying how important it is to be an open-communication family.

And that's the strange thing about advice.

这就是关于建议的奇怪之处。

When we offer people pills, we gather evidence first.

当我们给人们药方，我们首先收集证据。

We do tests,

我们做实验，

we do follow-up studies.

我们做跟踪试验。

我们想正确地知道药方会起什么作用，

We want to know, and rightly so, what this pill is doing

以及它是怎么影响人们的生活的。

and how it affects people's lives.

关于建议？

And advice?

It is not enough for advice,

给予建议，或者让专业人员

or for professionals to give advice that is theoretically sound,

给予理论上站得住脚的建议，

or well-meant.

或是好心的建议是不够的。

应该是有证据的能够真正改善——

It should be advice that there is evidence for --

evidence that it actually improves patients' lives.

病人生活的建议。

所以我心中的哲学家 要给你们提出一个悖论：

So the philosopher in me would now like to offer you a paradox:

I advise you to stop following advice.

我建议你们停止遵循建议。

But, yes.

但是，没错。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

I will not end here with what went wrong;

我不会以什么负面的事情结束演讲：

我不会批判我们在 那些家庭里找到的温暖。

I would not be doing justice to the warmth we found in those families.

Remember the books and the trip to the farmer?

还记得那些书 和去农场的旅行吗？

When parents do things that work for them,

当父母做正确有效的事情，

they do brilliant things.

他们做得很棒。

What I want you to remember as members of families,

我想让你们记得的 是作为家庭成员，

无论任何形式或构成，

in no matter what form or shape,

is that what families need are warm relationships.

家庭都需要温馨的关系。

And we do not need to be professionals to create those.

我们不需要成为 专家来构建这些关系。

Most of us do just fine,

我们中的绝大多数都能做到。

although it may be hard work,

即使可能并不容易，

有时我们也可以遵循一些建议。

and from time to time, we can do with some advice.

In that case,

在那个情况下，

bear in mind three things.

记住三件事情：

Work with advice that works for your family.

只遵循适合你家庭的建议。

还要记住——你是专家， 因为你生活在你的家庭里。

Remember -- you're the expert, because you live your family life.

And finally,

最后，

believe in your abilities and your creativity,

相信你的能力和创造力，

因为你自己都能做到。

because you can do it yourself.

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）