Do kids think of sperm donors as family? | Veerle Provoost

Translator: Yingyan Chan Reviewer: Sylvia He

What is a parent?

乜嘢係父母？

What is a parent?

阿爸，阿媽又係乜嘢？

It's not an easy question.

呢個問題唔簡單

Today we have adoption,

今日，我哋有領養

stepfamilies,

再婚家庭

surrogate mothers.

同代孕媽媽

Many parents face tough questions

好多父母都面臨著難題

and tough decisions.

同艱難嘅選擇

Shall we tell our child about the sperm donation?

講唔講畀個细路知 精子捐贈呢件事？

If so, when?

如果講， 幾時講？

What words to use?

點講？

Sperm donors are often referred to as "biological fathers,"

精子捐贈人通常被稱為「親身阿爸」

but should we really be using the word "father?"

但係我哋應唔應該用「阿爸」呢個詞？

As a philosopher and social scientist,

身為一個哲學家同社會科學家

I have been studying these questions about the concept of parenthood.

我研究父母身份呢個問題

But today, I will talk to you about what I learned

今日，我想同大家講下

from talking to parents and children.

我同啲父母同細路 傾偈學到嘅嘢

I will show you that they know what matters most in a family,

佢哋知道個屋企裡邊咩最緊要

even though their family looks a little different.

就算佢哋同一般家庭有啲唔同

I will show you their creative ways of dealing with tough questions.

我會講下佢哋點有創意咁處理難題

But I will also show you the parents' uncertainties.

亦會講下呢啲父母嘅不安

We interviewed couples

我哋採訪過幾對 喺根特大學附屬醫院

who received fertility treatment at Ghent University Hospital,

接受不孕治療

using sperm from a donor.

通過精子捐贈而受孕嘅夫婦

In this treatment timeline,

我哋喺呢個治療嘅 時間線上嘅兩個點

you can see two points at which we conducted interviews.

（治療同之後 7-10 年）做採訪

We included heterosexual couples,

我哋包括咗因男方不育嚟尋治嘅

where the man for some reason did not have good-quality sperm,

異性戀夫婦

and lesbian couples who obviously needed to find sperm elsewhere.

同需要精子捐贈嘅女同性戀夫婦

We also included children.

我哋亦包括佐啲細路

I wanted to know

我之前想知

how those children define concepts like parenthood and family.

啲細路點定義父母同家庭

In fact, that is what I asked them,

事實上，我有問佢哋呢個問題

only not in that way.

不過用咗唔同嘅問法

I drew an apple tree instead.

我畫咗一棵蘋果樹

This way, I could ask abstract, philosophical questions

然後以一種唔容易離題嘅方式

in a way that did not make them run off.

問佢哋一啲抽象嘅、哲學性嘅問題

So as you can see,

大家喺度睇到

the apple tree is empty.

呢棵蘋果樹係空嘅

And that illustrates my research approach.

呢個就係我嘅研究方法

By designing techniques like this,

咁樣

I can bring as little meaning and content as possible to the interview,

我可以盡量減少我講嘅嘢

because I want to hear that from them.

而將重點放喺佢哋講嘅嘢

I asked them:

我問佢哋：

What would your family look like if it were an apple tree?

如果你嘅家庭係一顆蘋果樹 佢會係咩樣？

And they could take a paper apple for everyone who, in their view,

佢哋就係代表

was a member of the family,

家庭成員嘅紙蘋果寫上個名

write a name on it and hang it wherever they wanted.

想挂喺樹上嘅邊度就掛嗰度

And I would ask questions.

然後我再問問題，多數細路

Most children started with a parent or a sibling.

會從爸爸媽媽或者兄弟姊妹度講起

One started with "Boxer,"

有個細路從 「拳師」講起

the dead dog of his grandparents.

佢係個細路嘅阿爺屋企死咗嘅狗仔

At this point, none of the children started mentioning the donor.

嗰時，冇一個細路提及精子捐贈人

So, I asked them about their birth story.

我問佢哋出世嘅故仔嗰時

I said, "Before you were born,

我話：「喺你出世之前，

it was just your mom and dad,

個屋企就得你嘅爸爸、媽媽，

or mom and mommy.

或者媽媽同媽咪。你可唔可以

Can you tell me how you came into the family?"

同我講下你係點嚟到呢個屋企呢？」

And they explained.

佢哋就講畀我聽

One said,

一個細路話

"My parents did not have good seeds,

「我嘅阿爸阿媽冇好嘅種子，

but there are friendly men out there who have spare seeds.

但係有啲好人有剩餘嘅種子，

They bring them to the hospital,

佢哋將啲種子帶去醫院度，

and they put them in a big jar.

放喺一個大罐度。

My mommy went there,

我媽咪佢喺醫院

and she took two from the jar,

從個罐度摞咗兩粒種子，

one for me and one for my sister.

一個係我，一個係我妹妹。

She put the seeds in her belly --

佢將種植放入佢肚腩度。

somehow --

唔知點，

and her belly grew really big,

佢嘅肚腩就變到好大，

and there I was."

然後我就出咗世。」

Hmm.

嗯

So only when they started mentioning the donor,

佢哋有提到精子捐贈人時

I asked questions about him, using their own words.

我就用佢哋嘅語言 問關於捐赠人嘅問題

I said,

我話

"If this would be an apple for the friendly man with the seeds,

「如果呢個蘋果係 嗰個有種植嘅好人，

what would you do with it?"

你會點做？」

And one boy was thinking out loud,

有個男仔攞住個紙蘋果

holding the apple.

諗邊講

And he said,

話：

"I won't put this one up there with the others.

「我唔會將個蘋果放喺個樹上，

He's not part of my family.

佢唔係我屋企人，

But I will not put him on the ground.

但係我亦唔會將佢放喺個地度，

That's too cold and too hard.

個地度太凍太硬。

I think he should be in the trunk,

我覺得佢應該喺個樹幹度，

because he made my family possible.

因為佢使我哋有個屋企，

If he would not have done this,

如果冇佢（將種子放入個罐度），

that would really be sad because my family would not be here,

就冇我哋屋企， 咁就好慘喇，

and I would not be here."

我就唔會喺度。」

So also, parents constructed family tales --

所以，父母都會講啲

tales to tell their children.

關於屋企嘅故仔畀啲仔女聽

One couple explained their insemination

有對夫婦為咗解釋佢哋受精嘅過程

by taking their children to a farm

帶咗啲仔女去農場

to watch a vet inseminate cows.

睇獸醫同奶牛接種

And why not?

有咩唔得呢？

It's their way of explaining;

呢個係佢哋解釋嘅方式

their do-it-yourself with family narratives.

佢哋自製嘅家庭敘事方式

DIY.

DIY

And we had another couple who made books --

我哋仲採訪咗一對自己整書

a book for each child.

一個細路一本書嘅夫婦

They were really works of art

嗰啲書真係藝術品

containing their thoughts and feelings throughout the treatment.

寫咗夫婦喺治療過程嘅感想

They even had the hospital parking tickets in there.

仲放埋當時喺醫院嘅泊車飛入去

So it is DIY:

呢就係 DIY

finding ways, words and images

揾到方法、語言同畫面

to tell your family story to your child.

將你屋企嘅故仔話畀啲仔女知

And these stories were highly diverse,

呢啲故仔多種多樣

but they all had one thing in common:

但係有個共同點：

it was a tale of longing for a child

都有講對 BB 嘅渴望

and a quest for that child.

同追求

It was about how special and how deeply loved their child was.

係關於佢哋對仔女深深嘅愛

And research so far shows that these children are doing fine.

研究顯示， 呢啲仔女發育得好正常

They do not have more problems than other kids.

並冇比其他細路多問題

Yet, these parents also wanted to justify their decisions

但係，呢啲父母亦想通過啲家庭故仔

through the tales they tell.

為自己辯護

They hoped that their children would understand their reasons

佢哋希望佢哋嘅仔女明白

for making the family in this way.

佢哋用呢種方式組建家庭嘅理由

Underlying was a fear that their children might disapprove

表面之下，佢哋好驚佢哋嘅仔女會

and would reject the non-genetic parent.

唔認同甚至抗拒冇血緣嘅父母

And that fear is understandable,

呢種擔心係情有可原

because we live in a very heteronormative

事關我哋身處一個異性主流

and geneticized society --

同強調基因遺傳嘅社會

a world that still believes

一個仲係相信一個真正嘅家庭

that true families consist of one mom, one dad

有一個爸爸，一個媽媽，仲有

and their genetically related children.

同佢哋有血緣關係嘅仔女嘅家庭

Well.

噢

I want to tell you about a teenage boy.

我想同大家分享一個男仔嘅故仔

He was donor-conceived but not part of our study.

佢係靠捐贈出世 但唔係我哋嘅研究對象

One day, he had an argument with his father,

有一日，佢同佢阿爸鬧交

and he yelled,

佢話：

"You're telling me what to do?

「你要叫我做嘢？

You're not even my father!"

你都唔係我爸爸！」

That was exactly what the parents in our study feared.

呢就係我哋研究嘅父母最驚嘅

Now, the boy soon felt sorry, and they made up.

呢個男仔好快就知錯 然後同佢爸爸好返

But it is the reaction of his father that is most interesting.

最好玩嘅就係佢爸爸對呢件事嘅反應

He said,

佢話：

"This outburst had nothing to do with the lack of a genetic link.

「成件事同我哋冇基因聯繫冇關係，

It was about puberty --

關個仔喺青春期多啲。

being difficult.

It's what they do at that age.

到嗰個年齡就係咁㗎啦，

It will pass."

而且會過去嘅。」

What this man shows us

呢個男人使我哋明白

is that when something goes wrong,

有啲事唔順利時

we should not immediately think

唔好即刻諗

it is because the family is a little different.

係因為屋企有啲唔同

These things happen in all families.

查實個個屋企都會有啲嘢唔同

And every now and then,

而且

all parents may wonder:

所有嘅父母都想知

Am I a good enough parent?

佢哋做阿爸阿媽夠唔夠稱職

These parents, too.

我哋研究嘅父母亦會咁問

They, above all, wanted to do what's best for their child.

畢竟，佢哋都想畀仔女最好嘅嘢

But they also sometimes wondered:

佢哋有時亦會諗

Am I a real parent?

我係咪一個真正嘅阿爸阿媽？

And their uncertainties were present long before they even were parents.

佢哋喺做爸爸媽媽之前就唔確定

At the start of treatment,

個療程啱啱開始時

when they first saw the counselor,

佢哋第一次去見諮詢師時

they paid close attention to the counselor,

佢哋就聽得好專心

because they wanted to do it right.

事關佢哋好想做得好

Even 10 years later,

甚至十年後

they still remember the advice they were given.

佢哋仲記得當初收到嘅建議

So when they thought about the counselor

所以佢哋諗起嗰個諮詢師

and the advice they were given,

同佢畀嘅建議

we discussed that.

我哋就討論下

And we saw one lesbian couple who said,

有一對女同性戀夫婦講：

"When our son asks us,

「我哋嘅仔仔問我哋︰

'Do I have a dad?'

『我有冇阿爸？』

we will say 'No, you do not have a dad.'

我哋會話：『唔，你冇阿爸。』

But we will say nothing more, not unless he asks,

但係我哋唔會再講咩，除非佢再問，

because he might not be ready for that.

事關佢可能未準備好接受嗰個答案。

The counselor said so."

嗰個諮詢師都話係咁。」

Well.

好

I don't know; that's quite different

呢個同我哋一般

from how we respond to children's questions.

解答細路嘅問題好唔一樣

Like, "Milk -- is that made in a factory?"

譬如「牛奶係咪喺工廠裡邊造出嚟？」

We will say, "No, it comes from cows,"

我哋會話「唔係， 牛奶喺奶牛個度出嚟嘅。」

and we will talk about the farmer,

然後我哋會講下農民

and the way the milk ends up in the shop.

同牛奶點樣去到商店

We will not say,

我哋唔會講

"No, milk is not made in a factory."

「唔係，牛奶唔係喺工廠度 整出嚟嘅。」

So something strange happened here,

所以就有怪事發生

and of course these children noticed that.

啲細路都發覺到

One boy said,

一個男仔講︰

"I asked my parents loads of questions,

「我問我爸媽好多問題，

but they acted really weird.

但係佢哋嘅反應得好奇怪。

So, you know, I have a friend at school, and she's made in the same way.

我喺學校有個朋友， 佢亦係捐贈受孕出世嘅。

When I have a question, I just go and ask her."

我有嘢想問時， 就直頭去問佢。」

Clever guy.

叻仔！

Problem solved.

問題就咁解決咗

But his parents did not notice,

但係佢嘅父母都唔覺得係咁

and it certainly was not what they had in mind,

佢哋同個諮詢師討論建立

nor what the counselor had in mind

一個開放式溝通嘅家庭時

when they were saying how important it is to be an open-communication family.

應該冇諗到呢個情況

And that's the strange thing about advice.

畀人哋意見就係奇怪

When we offer people pills, we gather evidence first.

我哋同人開藥時，會先收集證據

We do tests,

再做化驗

we do follow-up studies.

再做後續研究

We want to know, and rightly so, what this pill is doing

我哋要知道個藥丸有咩作用

and how it affects people's lives.

同會點影響病人嘅生活

And advice?

至於畀意見呢？

It is not enough for advice,

專家畀意見

or for professionals to give advice that is theoretically sound,

唔應該就係理論上好好

or well-meant.

或者有善意，就得喇

It should be advice that there is evidence for --

畀出嘅意見應該有

evidence that it actually improves patients' lives.

真正改善人嘅生活嘅證據

So the philosopher in me would now like to offer you a paradox:

身為一個哲學家 我想畀大家一個悖論諗下：

I advise you to stop following advice.

我建議大家唔再聽從任何建議

But, yes.

係

(Applause)

（掌聲）

I will not end here with what went wrong;

我唔想講完咩錯咗就停低

I would not be doing justice to the warmth we found in those families.

咁係對唔住我哋研究嘅咁溫暖嘅家庭

Remember the books and the trip to the farmer?

仲記唔記得 嗰啲自製書同去農場嘅郊遊？

When parents do things that work for them,

父母做適合啲仔女嘅嘢時

they do brilliant things.

佢哋做得好叻

What I want you to remember as members of families,

我想大家記住，作為家庭嘅一份子

in no matter what form or shape,

無論個屋企係咩形式

is that what families need are warm relationships.

屋企人需要互相關愛

And we do not need to be professionals to create those.

冇專業人士嘅指導

Most of us do just fine,

我哋都會做得好好

although it may be hard work,

雖然可能會好難

and from time to time, we can do with some advice.

時不時，仲要聽下其他人嘅意見

In that case,

所以

bear in mind three things.

記住三件事

Work with advice that works for your family.

聽取適合你屋企人嘅意見

Remember -- you're the expert, because you live your family life.

記住，你係專家

事關呢個係你同你家人嘅生活

And finally,

收屘

believe in your abilities and your creativity,

相信你自己嘅能力同創意

because you can do it yourself.

你自己搞得掂

Thank you.

多謝

(Applause)

（鼓掌）