Do kids think of sperm donors as family? | Veerle Provoost

Prevoditelj: Viktorija Đuđik Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

What is a parent?

Što je to roditelj?

What is a parent?

Što je to roditelj?

Nije lako pitanje.

It's not an easy question.

Today we have adoption,

Danas imamo posvajanje,

reorganizirane obitelji,

stepfamilies,

surrogate mothers.

surogat majke.

Many parents face tough questions

Mnogi roditelji se suočavaju s teškim pitanjima

i teškim odlukama.

and tough decisions.

Shall we tell our child about the sperm donation?

Trebamo li reći djetetu o doniranju sperme?

If so, when?

Ako trebamo, kada dakle?

Kojim riječima?

What words to use?

Sperm donors are often referred to as "biological fathers,"

Donatore sperme se često naziva "biološkim očevima",

but should we really be using the word "father?"

ali trebamo li zaista koristiti riječ "otac"?

As a philosopher and social scientist,

Kao filozofkinja i sociologinja,

I have been studying these questions about the concept of parenthood.

Proučavala sam ova pitanja o konceptu roditeljstva.

Ali danas, govorit ću vam što sam naučila

But today, I will talk to you about what I learned

iz razgovora s roditeljima i s djecom.

from talking to parents and children.

I will show you that they know what matters most in a family,

Pokazat ću vam da oni znaju što je najvažnije u obitelji

even though their family looks a little different.

iako njihove obitelji izgledaju malo drugačije.

Pokazat ću vam njihove kreativne načine suočavanja s teškim pitanjima.

I will show you their creative ways of dealing with tough questions.

But I will also show you the parents' uncertainties.

Ali ću vam pokazati i nesigurnosti roditelja.

We interviewed couples

Intervjuirali smo parove

who received fertility treatment at Ghent University Hospital,

koji su bili na liječenju neplodnosti u bolnici sveučilišta u Ghentu

koristeći spermu donatora.

using sperm from a donor.

In this treatment timeline,

Za vrijeme ovog tretmana,

you can see two points at which we conducted interviews.

možete vidjeti dva trenutka u kojima smo proveli intervjue.

We included heterosexual couples,

Uključili smo heteroseksualne parove,

u kojima muškarac iz nekog razloga nije imao kvalitetnu spermu

where the man for some reason did not have good-quality sperm,

and lesbian couples who obviously needed to find sperm elsewhere.

i lezbijske parove koje su očito trebale pronaći spermu drugdje.

We also included children.

Uključili smo i djecu.

I wanted to know

Željela sam znati

how those children define concepts like parenthood and family.

kako ova djeca određuju koncepte poput roditeljstva i obitelji.

Zapravo, to sam ih pitala,

In fact, that is what I asked them,

only not in that way.

ali ne na taj način.

I drew an apple tree instead.

Umjesto toga, nacrtala sam drvo jabuke.

Ovako sam mogla pitati apstraktna filozofska pitanja

This way, I could ask abstract, philosophical questions

in a way that did not make them run off.

tako da ih ne otjeram.

So as you can see,

Kao što možete vidjeti,

drvo jabuke je prazno.

the apple tree is empty.

And that illustrates my research approach.

I predstavlja moj pristup istraživanju.

By designing techniques like this,

Ovakvim tehnikama

I can bring as little meaning and content as possible to the interview,

mogu u intervju donijeti vrlo malo značenja i sadržaja

because I want to hear that from them.

jer to želim čuti od njih.

I asked them:

Pitala sam ih:

What would your family look like if it were an apple tree?

Kako bi tvoja obitelj izgledala da je drvo jabuke?

And they could take a paper apple for everyone who, in their view,

Oni bi uzeli papirnatu jabuku za svakoga tko je, prema njihovom mišljenju,

was a member of the family,

član obitelji,

napisali bi ime na papir i stavili ga gdje žele.

write a name on it and hang it wherever they wanted.

And I would ask questions.

A ja bih postavila pitanja.

Većina djece je počelo s roditeljem, bratom ili sestrom.

Most children started with a parent or a sibling.

One started with "Boxer,"

Jedno je počelo s "Boxerom",

the dead dog of his grandparents.

uginulim psom njegovog bake i djeda.

At this point, none of the children started mentioning the donor.

U ovom trenutku, nijedno dijete nije spomenulo donatora.

So, I asked them about their birth story.

Stoga sam ih upitala za priču o njihovom rođenju.

Rekla sam, "Prije nego što si rođen,

I said, "Before you were born,

it was just your mom and dad,

bili su samo tvoji mama i tata,

or mom and mommy.

ili mama i mama.

Can you tell me how you came into the family?"

Možeš li mi reći kako si ti došao u obitelj?"

And they explained.

I oni su objasnili.

One said,

Jedno je dijete reklo,

"My parents did not have good seeds,

"Moji roditelji nisu imali dobro sjeme,

but there are friendly men out there who have spare seeds.

ali postoje ljubazni muškarci koji imaju viška sjemena.

They bring them to the hospital,

Dovedu ih u bolnicu,

i stave ih u veliku staklenku.

and they put them in a big jar.

My mommy went there,

Moja mama je išla tamo,

and she took two from the jar,

i uzela je dva iz staklenke,

one for me and one for my sister.

jedno za mene i jedno za moju sestru.

She put the seeds in her belly --

Stavila je sjeme u svoj trbuh --

nekako --

somehow --

and her belly grew really big,

i trbuh je narastao jako velik,

and there I was."

i tako sam ja došao."

Hmm.

Hmm.

Tek kad su oni spomenuli donatora

So only when they started mentioning the donor,

I asked questions about him, using their own words.

ja sam pitala za njega, koristeći njihove riječi.

I said,

Rekla sam,

"If this would be an apple for the friendly man with the seeds,

"Ako je ovo jabuka za ljubaznog čovjeka sa sjemenom,

what would you do with it?"

što bi učinio s njom?"

Jedan je dječak razmišljao naglas,

And one boy was thinking out loud,

holding the apple.

držeći jabuku.

And he said,

Rekao je,

"I won't put this one up there with the others.

"Neću je staviti gore s ostalima.

He's not part of my family.

On nije dio moje obitelji.

But I will not put him on the ground.

Ali neću ga staviti na zemlju.

That's too cold and too hard.

Tu je prehladno i preteško.

Mislim da bi trebao biti u deblu,

I think he should be in the trunk,

because he made my family possible.

jer je omogućio moju obitelj.

If he would not have done this,

Da on to nije učinio,

that would really be sad because my family would not be here,

to bi zbilja bilo tužno jer moje obitelji ne bi bilo,

and I would not be here."

i ne bi bilo mene."

So also, parents constructed family tales --

Roditelji su stvorili obiteljske priče --

tales to tell their children.

priče koje su ispričali djeci.

One couple explained their insemination

Jedan par je objasnio njihovu oplodnju

by taking their children to a farm

tako što su odveli djecu na farmu

to watch a vet inseminate cows.

da vide kako veterinar oplodi krave.

And why not?

I zašto ne?

To je njihov način objašnjavanja,

It's their way of explaining;

their do-it-yourself with family narratives.

njihov uradi-sam s obiteljskim pričama.

DIY.

Uradi-sam.

And we had another couple who made books --

Bio je jedan par koji je radio knjige --

a book for each child.

jedna knjiga za svako dijete.

They were really works of art

Zaista su bila umjetnička djela.

containing their thoughts and feelings throughout the treatment.

koja sadrže njihove misli i osjećaje tijekom tretmana.

They even had the hospital parking tickets in there.

Čak su imali parkirne karte iz bolnice.

So it is DIY:

To je uradi-sam:

finding ways, words and images

pronalaženje načina, riječi i slika

to tell your family story to your child.

da se obiteljska priča ispriča svom djetetu.

And these stories were highly diverse,

Ove priče su vrlo raznolike,

but they all had one thing in common:

ali svima je jedno zajedničko:

it was a tale of longing for a child

to je priča o čežnji za djetetom

and a quest for that child.

i potragom za njim.

It was about how special and how deeply loved their child was.

Radi se o tome koliko je njihovo dijete posebno i voljeno.

A istraživanja zasad pokazuju da je toj djeci dobro.

And research so far shows that these children are doing fine.

They do not have more problems than other kids.

Nemaju više problema od ostale djece.

Yet, these parents also wanted to justify their decisions

Ipak, ti su roditelji htjeli opravdati svoje odluke

through the tales they tell.

kroz priče koje su ispričali.

They hoped that their children would understand their reasons

Nadali su se da će djeca razumjeti njihove razloge

for making the family in this way.

da naprave obitelj na ovaj način.

Underlying was a fear that their children might disapprove

U pozadini je strah da njihova djeca neće odobravati

and would reject the non-genetic parent.

i da će odbaciti roditelja s kojim nisu u srodstvu.

And that fear is understandable,

Taj strah je razumljiv,

jer živimo u vrlo heteronormativnom

because we live in a very heteronormative

and geneticized society --

i genetiziranom društvu --

a world that still believes

u svijetu koji još vjeruje

that true families consist of one mom, one dad

da pravu obitelj čini jedna majka, jedan otac

i njihova genetski srodna djeca.

and their genetically related children.

Well.

Dakle.

Želim vam ispričati o jednom tinejdžeru.

I want to tell you about a teenage boy.

He was donor-conceived but not part of our study.

Začet je uz pomoć donatora, a nije dio našeg istraživanja.

One day, he had an argument with his father,

Jednog dana, posvađao se s ocem,

and he yelled,

i viknuo je,

"You're telling me what to do?

"Ti mi govoriš što da radim?

You're not even my father!"

Ti mi čak ni nisi otac!"

That was exactly what the parents in our study feared.

To je bilo točno ono čega su se roditelji u našem istraživanju bojali.

Now, the boy soon felt sorry, and they made up.

No, nedugo zatim dječaku je bilo žao, i pomirili su se.

But it is the reaction of his father that is most interesting.

A reakcija njegovog oca je ono najzanimljivije.

Rekao je,

He said,

"This outburst had nothing to do with the lack of a genetic link.

"Taj izljev nije imao nikakve veze s nedostatkom genetske povezanosti."

It was about puberty --

To je bio pubertet --

koji je težak.

being difficult.

It's what they do at that age.

To oni rade u toj dobi.

It will pass."

Proći će."

What this man shows us

Taj nam čovjek pokazuje

is that when something goes wrong,

da kad nešto pođe po zlu,

we should not immediately think

ne trebamo odmah pomisliti

it is because the family is a little different.

da je to jer je obitelj malo drugačija.

These things happen in all families.

Takve stvari se događaju u svim obiteljima.

And every now and then,

I svako malo,

all parents may wonder:

svi se roditelji pitaju:

Am I a good enough parent?

Jesam li dovoljno dobar roditelj?

Ovi roditelji također.

These parents, too.

Oni, iznad svega, žele činiti što je najbolje za njihovo dijete.

They, above all, wanted to do what's best for their child.

But they also sometimes wondered:

Ali i oni su se ponekad upitali:

Jesam li ja pravi roditelj?

Am I a real parent?

And their uncertainties were present long before they even were parents.

A njihove nesigurnosti su postojale prije nego što su uopće postali roditelji.

At the start of treatment,

Na početku tretmana,

when they first saw the counselor,

kad su prvi put vidjeli savjetnika,

strogo su obraćali pozornost na savjetnika

they paid close attention to the counselor,

because they wanted to do it right.

jer su to željeli učiniti na pravi način.

Even 10 years later,

Čak 10 godina poslije,

i dalje se sjećaju savjeta koje su dobili.

they still remember the advice they were given.

So when they thought about the counselor

Kad pomisle na savjetnika

and the advice they were given,

i savjete koje su dobili,

we discussed that.

o tome smo raspravili.

And we saw one lesbian couple who said,

Vidjeli smo i jedan lezbijski par koji je rekao,

"When our son asks us,

"Kad nas naš sin pita

'Do I have a dad?'

"Imam li ja oca?",

we will say 'No, you do not have a dad.'

mi ćemo odgovoriti "Ne, ti nemaš oca."

But we will say nothing more, not unless he asks,

Ali nećemo reći ništa više, dok nas ne pita,

because he might not be ready for that.

jer možda neće biti spreman za to.

The counselor said so."

Savjetnik je tako rekao.

Well.

Pa.

Ne znam; to je dosta drugačije

I don't know; that's quite different

od načina na koji odgovaramo na dječja pitanja.

from how we respond to children's questions.

Like, "Milk -- is that made in a factory?"

Na primjer, "Mlijeko -- pravi li se u tvornici?"

We will say, "No, it comes from cows,"

Reći ćemo, "Ne, dolazi od krava,"

and we will talk about the farmer,

i pričat ćemo o farmeru,

and the way the milk ends up in the shop.

i kako mlijeko završi u trgovini.

We will not say,

Nećemo reći,

"Ne, mlijeko se ne pravi u tvornici."

"No, milk is not made in a factory."

Nešto se čudno dogodilo ovdje,

So something strange happened here,

and of course these children noticed that.

i naravno da su ova djeca to primijetila.

One boy said,

Jedan je dječak rekao,

"I asked my parents loads of questions,

"Postavio sam roditeljima puno pitanja,

but they acted really weird.

ali oni su se ponašali čudno.

So, you know, I have a friend at school, and she's made in the same way.

Pa, znate, imam prijateljicu u školi, napravljena je na isti način.

When I have a question, I just go and ask her."

Kad imam pitanje, ja pitam nju."

Clever guy.

Pametan dečko.

Problem solved.

Problem riješen.

But his parents did not notice,

Ali njegovi roditelji nisu primijetili,

and it certainly was not what they had in mind,

a sigurno nisu tako zamislili,

nor what the counselor had in mind

niti je to savjetnik zamislio

when they were saying how important it is to be an open-communication family.

kad su govorili kako je važno biti obitelj s otvorenom komunikacijom.

And that's the strange thing about advice.

To je čudna stvar u vezi savjeta.

When we offer people pills, we gather evidence first.

Kad ljudima dajemo tablete prvo skupimo dokaze.

We do tests,

Provedemo testiranja,

we do follow-up studies.

naknadna istraživanja.

Želimo znati, i s pravom, što ta tableta čini

We want to know, and rightly so, what this pill is doing

i kako utječe na živote ljudi.

and how it affects people's lives.

A savjet?

And advice?

It is not enough for advice,

Za savjet nije dovoljno,

or for professionals to give advice that is theoretically sound,

ili za stručnjake da daju savjet koji je teoretski čvrst,

or well-meant.

ili u dobroj namjeri.

It should be advice that there is evidence for --

Trebali bi se davati savjeti za koje postoje dokazi --

evidence that it actually improves patients' lives.

dokazi da zaista poboljšavaju živote pacijenata.

Filozofkinja u meni bi vam željela ponuditi paradoks:

So the philosopher in me would now like to offer you a paradox:

I advise you to stop following advice.

Savjetujem vam da prestanete slijediti savjete.

But, yes.

Ali, da.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

I will not end here with what went wrong;

Neću završiti s onim što je pošlo po zlu:

Ne bi bilo pravedno prema toplini koju smo pronašli u tim obiteljima.

I would not be doing justice to the warmth we found in those families.

Remember the books and the trip to the farmer?

Sjećate se knjiga i puta na farmu?

When parents do things that work for them,

Kad roditelji čine stvari koje kod njih funkcioniraju

they do brilliant things.

čine sjajne stvari.

What I want you to remember as members of families,

Želim da zapamtite, kao članovi obitelji,

u bilo kojem obliku,

in no matter what form or shape,

is that what families need are warm relationships.

da obitelji trebaju tople veze.

And we do not need to be professionals to create those.

A mi ne trebamo biti stručnjaci da ih stvorimo.

Most of us do just fine,

Većini među nama ide dobro,

although it may be hard work,

iako to može biti naporno,

i s vremena na vrijeme, dobro bi nam došao savjet.

and from time to time, we can do with some advice.

In that case,

U tom slučaju,

bear in mind three things.

imajte na umu tri stvari.

Work with advice that works for your family.

Radite sa savjetom koji funkcionira za vašu obitelj.

Zapamtite -- vi ste stručnjak, jer vi živite svoj obiteljski život.

Remember -- you're the expert, because you live your family life.

And finally,

I na kraju,

believe in your abilities and your creativity,

vjerujte u svoje sposobnosti i svoju kreativnost,

jer možete uspjeti sami.

because you can do it yourself.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)