The strange politics of disgust | David Pizarro

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

翻译人员: Jing Gao 校对人员: Joy Wei

In the 17th century, a woman named Giulia Tofana

在17世纪，一位叫Giulia Tofana的女士

had a very successful perfume business.

有一份很成功的香水生意。

For over 50 years she ran it.

她这份生意经营了50多年。

It sort of ended abruptly when she was executed — (Laughter) —

后来她因谋杀600人而被处决——（笑声）

for murdering 600 men. You see, it wasn't a very good perfume.

她的生意也戛然而止。看来她的香水不怎么好。

In fact, it was completely odorless and tasteless and colorless,

事实上，她的香水完全无香、无味、无色，

but as a poison, it was the best money could buy,

但那可是用钱能买到的最好的毒药，

so women flocked to her in order to murder their husbands.

女人们蜂拥购买她的香水，来毒死她们的丈夫。

It turns out that poisoners were a valued and feared group,

事实上下毒者是一个十分被重视和被惧怕的群体，

because poisoning a human being is a quite difficult thing.

因为毒死一个人可不是什么容易事。

The reason is, we have sort of a built-in poison detector.

原因是，我们体内有种毒药检测器。

You can see this as early as even in newborn infants.

即使是新生婴儿都已经能利用这个检测器。

If you are willing to do this, you can take a couple of drops

如果你愿意试一下的话，你可以喂他两滴

of a bitter substance or a sour substance,

苦的东西或者酸的东西，

and you'll see that face, the tongue stick out, the wrinkled nose,

你就会看到这张脸，舌头伸着，鼻子皱着，

as if they're trying to get rid of what's in their mouth.

好像是想要把嘴里的东西吐出来。

This reaction expands into adulthood and becomes

这个反应会延续到成年，成为

sort of a full-blown disgust response, no longer just

一种成熟的恶心反应，不仅仅只在

about whether or not we're about to be poisoned,

我们马上就要被毒到的时候，

but whenever there's a threat of physical contamination

而是在只要周边存在有对我们身体有毒害的

from some source. But the face remains strikingly similar.

威胁时。但是那种表情和以前惊人得相似。

It has expanded more, though, than just keeping us away

不过这种毒品检测范围远远扩大了。

from physical contaminants, and there's a growing

它不进让我们远离身体毒素，

body of evidence to suggest that, in fact, this emotion

越来越多的证据表明，事实上，这种

of disgust now influences our moral beliefs

厌恶的感情还影响我们的道德信仰，

and even our deeply held political intuitions.

甚至还影响我们内心深处的政治直觉。

Why this might be the case?

为什么会这样呢？

We can understand this process by understanding

要理解这个过程，我们得先了解一点

a little bit about emotions in general. So the basic human emotions,

关于情感的小知识。人类的基本情感，

those kinds of emotions that we share with all other human beings,

那些我们和所有其他人类都共有的情感，

exist because they motivate us to do good things

之所以存在，是因为它们激励我们做好事，

and they keep us away from doing bad things.

防止我们做坏事。

So by and large, they are good for our survival.

一般来讲，它们对我们的存活是有益的。

Take the emotion of fear, for instance. It keeps us away

比如说恐惧这种情感。它防止我们

from doing things that are really, really risky.

做一些真的非常冒险的事情。

This photo taken just before his death — (Laughter) —

这张照片是在他生前最后一张照片——（笑声）

is actually a — No, one reason this photo is interesting

事实上是——不，这张照片很有趣的一个原因

is because most people would not do this, and if they did,

是大多数人是不会这么做的，如果他们这么做了，

they would not live to tell it, because fear would have

他们不会活下来讲这个故事的，因为

kicked in a long time ago to a natural predator.

恐惧是早早惊到这个自然天敌。

Just like fear offers us protective benefits, disgust seems

就像恐惧能保护到我们，厌恶好像

to do the same thing, except for what disgust does is

有同样功能，只是厌恶

keeps us away from not things that might eat us,

不是防止我们靠近可能会吃掉我们的东西，

or heights, but rather things that might poison us,

或者高度，而且可能会毒到我们的东西，

or give us disease and make us sick.

或者让我们生病的东西。

So one of the features of disgust that makes it such

厌恶这种感情之所以这么有趣的

an interesting emotion is that it's very, very easy to elicit,

原因之一就是我们非常、非常容易产生这种感情，

in fact more so than probably any of the other basic emotions,

事实上，厌恶的产生恐怕比其他任何基本感情都容易

and so I'm going to show you that with a couple of images

我接下来要给大家展示，只用两张图片，

I can probably make you feel disgust.

我就很可能让你觉得恶心。

So turn away. I'll tell you when you can turn back.

转过身去。我会告诉什么时候你能转回来。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I mean, you see it every day, right? I mean, come on. (Laughter)

你每天都会看到它，对吧？拜托。（笑声）

(Audience: Ewww.)

（观众：咦。）

Okay, turn back, if you didn't look.

好了，转回来吧，如果你没有看的话。

Those probably made a lot of you in the audience

这两张图片恐怕让在座许多人都感觉

feel very, very disgusted, but if you didn't look,

非常、非常恶心，但如果你没有看，

I can tell you about some of the other things that have been shown

我可以告诉其他一些在世界范围都能

sort of across the world to make people disgusted,

让人觉得恶心的东西，

things like feces, urine, blood, rotten flesh.

比如说排泄物、血、腐烂的肉。

These are the sorts of things that it makes sense

我们确实有理由远离这些东西，

for us to stay away from, because they might actually contaminate us.

因为它们真的可能会毒害我们。

In fact, just having a diseased appearance

事实上，仅仅是有张生病的外表

or odd sexual acts, these things are also

或奇怪的性行为，这些东西也能

things that give us a lot of disgust.

让我们觉得很恶心。

Darwin was probably one of the first scientists

达尔文恐怕是最早系统研究

to systematically investigate the human emotions,

人类感情的科学家之一，

and he pointed to the universal nature and the strength

他指出了厌恶反应的

of the disgust response.

普片性质和力量。

This is an anecdote from his travels in South America.

他的南美之行有则轶事，

"In Tierro del Fuego a native touched with his finger

“在火地列岛，一个当地人用他的手指

some cold preserved meat while I was eating ...

摸了我正在吃的冷藏肉，

and plainly showed disgust at its softness, whilst I felt

他很明白地表示了他对肉的柔软的厌恶，

utter disgust at my food being touched by a naked savage — (Laughter) —

而我却因我的食物被一个裸体蛮人触摸而恶心——（笑声）——

though his hands did not appear dirty."

尽管他的手看起来并不脏。”

He later wrote, "It's okay, some of my best friends are naked savages." (Laughter)

他之后写道：“没有关系，我的一些最好的朋友也是裸体蛮人。”（笑声）

Well it turns out it's not only old-timey British scientists

事实上过于拘谨的不仅仅是这些

who are this squeamish. I recently got a chance

过去的英国科学家。近期为了拍一个纪录片，

to talk to Richard Dawkins for a documentary,

我有机会和Richard Dawkins聊了聊，

and I was able to disgust him a bunch of times. Here's my favorite.

我好几次都成功地恶心到他。这个是我最喜欢的。

Richard Dawkins: "We've evolved around courtship and sex,

Richard Dawkins说过：“我们因求偶和性而进化，

are attached to deep-rooted emotions and reactions

牵挂那些刻骨的、不能一夜之后就抛却脑后的

that are hard to jettison overnight."

感情和反应。”

David Pizarro: So my favorite part of this clip is that

David Pizarro：在这个视频中我最喜欢的部分是

Professor Dawkins actually gagged.

Dawkins教授堵住了他的嘴。

He jumps back, and he gags, and we had to do it three times,

他撤退，堵嘴，我们不得不做了三次，

and all three times he gagged. (Laughter)

三次他都堵嘴了。（笑声）

And he was really gagging. I thought he might throw up on me, actually.

他真的把嘴堵上了。我真得以为他会呕吐到我身上。

One of the features, though, of disgust,

厌恶的特点之一，

is not just its universality and its strength,

不仅仅是它的普遍性和强度，

but the way that it works through association.

而是它能传递。

So when one disgusting thing touches a clean thing,

如果一个恶习的东西碰了一个干净的东西，

that clean thing becomes disgusting, not the other way around.

那个干净的东西也变恶心了，而不是恶心的变干净。

This makes it very useful as a strategy if you want to

这是一个很有用的策略，在你想说服

convince somebody that an object or an individual

某人一个东西或是一个人

or an entire social group is disgusting and should be avoided.

或是一个群体是很恶心的，要避开。

The philosopher Martha Nussbaum points this out

哲学家Martha Nussbaum就说过：

in this quote: "Thus throughout history, certain disgust

“整个历史中，一些特定的

properties -- sliminess, bad smell, stickiness, decay, foulness --

令人厌恶的东西——滑溜，腐蚀，卑鄙——

have been repeatedly and monotonously been associated with ...

被一而再、自动地和犹太人、女人、

Jews, women, homosexuals, untouchables, lower-class people --

同性恋、不可触摸的人、底层的人联系在一起，

all of those are imagined as tainted by the dirt of the body."

和那些想象中被身体的污浊玷污了的人。

Let me give you just some examples of how, some powerful

我来给大家讲几个历史上

examples of how this has been used historically.

利用这种心理的有力的例子。

This comes from a Nazi children's book published in 1938:

这段话摘自一本纳粹1938出版的儿童书：

"Just look at these guys! The louse-infested beards,

”看看这些人！跳蚤丛生的胡子，

the filthy, protruding ears, those stained, fatty clothes...

肮脏的、突出的耳朵，染色的、油腻的衣服......

Jews often have an unpleasant sweetish odor.

犹太人通常有种带甜味的体味。

If you have a good nose, you can smell the Jews."

如果你鼻子灵敏的话，你能闻到他们。“

A more modern example comes from people who try to

一个更近点的例子是一些人试图

convince us that homosexuality is immoral.

说服我们，说同性恋是不道德的。

This is from an anti-gay website, where they said

这段话摘自一个反同性恋网站，他们说

gays are "worthy of death for their vile ... sex practices."

同性恋”因为他们肮脏的性行为值得去死。“他们像

They're like "dogs eating their own vomit and sows wallowing in their own feces."

“吃自己呕吐物的狗，翻滚在自己的粪便中的母猪。”

These are disgust properties that are trying to be directly

这些人试图把这些令人厌恶的东西

linked to the social group that you should not like.

直接跟不被喜欢的社会群体上挂钩。

When we were first investigating the role of disgust in

当我们刚开始研究厌恶在道德审判中的

moral judgment, one of the things we became interested in

作用时，我们很感兴趣的事情之一是

was whether or not these sorts of appeals are more likely

这种策略是否更容易在那些

to work in individuals who are more easily disgusted.

更容易被恶心到的人身上起作用。

So while disgust, along with the other basic emotions,

尽管厌恶和其他基本情感一样

are universal phenomena, it just really is true

是普遍现象，确实有些人比其他人

that some people are easier to disgust than others.

更容易被恶心到。

You could probably see it in the audience members

大家可能在我展示那些恶心的图片时

when I showed you those disgusting images.

就在观众群中注意到了。

The way that we measured this was by a scale that was

我们测量得方法是使用一个

constructed by some other psychologists

其他心理学家建的尺量，

that simply asked people across a wide variety of situations

我们提出各种各样的情况，

how likely they are to feel disgust.

让人们标记他们被恶心到的可能性。

So here are a couple of examples.

我来举两个例子。

"Even if I were hungry, I would not drink a bowl of my

“即使我很饿，我也不会喝一碗我最喜欢的汤，

favorite soup if it had been stirred by a used but thoroughly washed fly-swatter."

如果这碗汤被一个用过但完全清洗过的苍蝇拍搅过。”

"Do you agree or disagree?" (Laughter)

“你同意还是不同意？”（笑声）

"While you are walking through a tunnel under a railroad track,

“当你走过一段铁轨下的通道时，

you smell urine. Would you be very disgusted or not at all disgusted?"

你闻到尿液的味道。你会感到非常恶心还是不会恶心？”

If you ask enough of these, you can get a general overall

如果你回答的问题足够多，你差不多能知道

score of disgust sensitivity.

你的恶心敏感度有多少。

It turns out that this score is actually meaningful.

这个度数事实上非常有意义。

When you bring people into the laboratory and you ask

当你带人到实验室，问他们是否愿意

them if they're willing to engage in safe but disgusting behaviors

进行安全但恶心的行为

like eating chocolate that's been baked to look like dog poop,

比如吃看起来像狗屎的巧克力，

or in this case eating some mealworms that are perfectly healthy but pretty gross,

或者像在这个例子中，吃非常健康但很恶心的肉虫，

your score on that scale actually predicts whether or not

你的恶心敏感度能预测出你是否

you'll be willing to engage in those behaviors.

愿意进行这些行为。

The first time that we set out to collect data on this

我们第一次去收集这些数据，

and associate it with political or moral beliefs,

把它们和政治或道德信仰联系起来时，

we found a general pattern --

我们发现一个普遍规律——

this is with the psychologists Yoel Inbar and Paul Bloom --

这个是和心理学家Yoel Inbar和Paul Bloom提出的——

that in fact, across three studies we kept finding

在三项研究中，我们都发现

that people who reported that they were easily disgusted

那些更容易被恶心到的人

also reported that they were more politically conservative.

在政治上也更为保守。

Another way to say this, though, is that people

换钟说法，就是自由派

who are very liberal are very hard to disgust. (Laughter)

很不容易被恶心到。（笑声）

In a more recent follow-up study, we were able to look at

在一项后续研究中，我们得以研究

a much greater sample, a much larger sample. In this case,

一个大得多的样本。在这个研究中，

this is nearly 30,000 U.S. respondents,

有近3万的美国人答复，

and we find the same pattern. As you can see,

我们发现了同样的规律。大家可以看到，

people who are on the very conservative side

政治上非常保守的人

of answering the political orientation scale are

在是否容易被恶心到时

also much more likely to report that they're easily disgusted.

要更容易得多。

This data set also allowed us to statistically control

这个数据库还让我们得以在数据上控制

for a number of things that we knew were both related

一些我们已经知道的、和政治取向及恶心敏感度

to political orientation and to disgust sensitivity.

都相关的因素。

So we were able to control for gender, age, income,

我们控制了性别、年龄、收入、

education, even basic personality variables,

教育、甚至基本性格这些变量，

and the result stays the same.

结果是不变的。

When we actually looked at not just self-reported political orientation,

当我们研究投票行为，

but voting behavior, we were able to look geographically

而不是自报的政治倾向时，我们得以在地理上

across the nation. What we found was that in regions

研究整个国家的人。我们发现，

in which people reported high levels of disgust sensitivity,

在居民说自己的恶心敏感度高的地区，

McCain got more votes.

麦凯恩得到更多选票。

So it not only predicted self-reported political orientation,

恶心敏感度不仅预测到自报的政治倾向，

but actual voting behavior. And also we were able,

还能预测到实际的投票行为。通过这个样本，

with this sample, to look across the world,

我们还能研究世界范围的行为。

in 121 different countries we asked the same questions,

在121个不同的国家，我们都问了同样的问题，

and as you can see, this is 121 countries collapsed

大家可以看到，这121个国家划分为了

into 10 different geographical regions.

10个不同的地理区域。

No matter where you look, what this is plotting is the size

不管你看的是哪一个，这个图画的都是

of the relationship between disgust sensitivity and political orientation,

恶心敏感度和政治倾向间的关系，

and no matter where we looked, we saw a very similar effect.

不管我们看的是哪个地区，我们都看到同样的效应。

Other labs have actually looked at this as well

其他实验室也研究过这个课题，

using different measures of disgust sensitivity,

用不同的方法测量恶心敏感度，

so rather than asking people how easily disgusted they are,

他们不是问实验参与者他们有多容易被恶心到，

they hook people up to physiological measures,

而是用生理测量，

in this case skin conductance.

在这个研究中用的是皮肤电导。

And what they've demonstrated is that people who report

他们发现，那些说自己在政治上

being more politically conservative are also more physiologically aroused

更保守的人，在看到那些我展示给你们的图片时

when you show them disgusting images like the ones that I showed you.

也更容易有生理反应。

Interestingly, what they also showed in a finding

有趣的是，他们也发现了一个

that we kept getting in our previous studies as well

我们在我们之前的研究中也总会得到的现象，

was that one of the strongest influences here is that

就是那些非常容易产生厌恶的人

individuals who are very disgust-sensitive not only are

不仅在政治上更可能是保守派，

more likely to report being politically conservative, but

也更可能反对

they're also very much more opposed to gay marriage

同性恋婚姻

and homosexuality and pretty much a lot of

和同性恋，及在性方面的

the socio-moral issues in the sexual domain.

大部分的社会道德问题。

So physiological arousal predicted, in this study,

在这项研究中，生理反应预测到

attitudes toward gay marriage.

实验参与者对同性恋婚姻的态度。

But even with all these data linking disgust sensitivity

但即使我们有这么多把恶心敏感度

and political orientation, one of the questions that remains is

和政治倾向联系在一起的数据，一个仍未解决的问题

what is the causal link here? Is it the case that

是：其中的因果关联是什么。难道说

disgust really is shaping political and moral beliefs?

厌恶真的塑造政治和道德信仰么？

We have to resort to experimental methods to answer this,

我们需要用实验方法来回答这个问题，

and so what we can do is actually bring people into the lab

我们能做的是把实验参与者带到实验室，

and disgust them and compare them to a control group

恶心他们，把他们和没有被恶心的

that hasn't been disgusted. It turns out that over

控制变量组进行比较。

the past five years a number of researchers have done this,

在过去的5年里，有不少研究人员都做了这样的研究，

and by and large the results have all been the same,

普遍上说结果是一致的，

that when people are feeling disgust, their attitudes

当人们感觉恶心时，他们的

shift towards the right of the political spectrum,

政治倾向会向右倾斜，

toward more moral conservatism as well.

在道德上也更保守。

So this is whether you use a foul odor, a bad taste,

不管你使用的是一种难闻的气味，一种难吃的味道，

from film clips, from post-hypnotic suggestions of disgust,

用视频，用催眠后的恶心暗示，

images like the ones I've shown you, even just

用我之前展示给大家的那种图片，

reminding people that disease is prevalent and they should

甚至只是提醒大家疾病无处不在、

be wary of it and wash up, right, to keep clean,

要保持警惕、保持清洁，

these all have similar effects on judgment.

这些都对人们的判断有相似的影响。

Let me just give you an example from a recent study

我来给大家一个例子，这个例子摘自

that we conducted. We asked participants

我们近期进行的一个实验。我们请实验参与者

to just simply give us their opinion of a variety of social groups,

告诉我们他们对不同的社会群体的看法，

and we either made the room smell gross or not.

我们让屋子要么难闻要么不难闻。

When the room smelled gross, what we saw was that

当屋子难闻的时候，我们发现

individuals actually reported more negative attitudes toward gay men.

实验参与者对同性恋的态度更负面。

Disgust didn't influence attitudes toward all the other

恶心不影响参与者对所以其他社会群体的

social groups that we asked, including African-Americans,

态度，包括非裔美国人，

the elderly. It really came down to the attitudes they had

老人。它只对参与者对同性恋的态度

toward gay men.

有影响。

In another set of studies we actually simply reminded people --

在另一组研究中我们仅仅是简单地提醒参与者——

this was at a time when the swine flu was going around --

那段时间猪流感正盛行——

we reminded people that in order to prevent the spread

我们提醒人们为了防止流感传播

of the flu that they ought to wash their hands.

他们应该洗手。

For some participants, we actually had them take questionnaires

对于一些参与者，我们让他们在一个提醒大家

next to a sign that reminded them to wash their hands.

要勤洗手的标志旁填调查问卷。

And what we found was that just taking a questionnaire

我们发现仅仅是在这个洗手提示牌

next to this hand-sanitizing reminder made individuals

边上填写调查问卷就会让参与者报告说

report being more politically conservative.

他们在政治上更为保守。

And when we asked them a variety of questions about

当我们问他们关于某些行为

the rightness or wrongness of certain acts, what we also

正确与否的问题时，我们还发现

found was that simply being reminded that they ought

仅仅是提醒他们洗手

to wash their hands made them more morally conservative.

就让他们在道德上更保守。

In particular, when we asked them questions about

特别是在我们问到

sort of taboo but fairly harmless sexual practices,

忌讳但是无害的性行为时，

just being reminded that they ought to wash their hands

提醒他们要洗手就会让他们觉得

made them think that they were more morally wrong.

这些行为在道德上更为错误。

Let me give you an example of what I mean by harmless

我来给大家一个无害但忌讳的性行为的例子。

but taboo sexual practice. We gave them scenarios.

我们给实验参与者不同的情景。

One of them said a man is house-sitting for his grandmother.

其中之一是一个男人在帮他的祖母看家。

When his grandmother's away, he has sex with his girlfriend

在他祖母不在的时候，他和他的女朋友在他祖母的

on his grandma's bed.

床上性交。

In another one, we said a woman enjoys masturbating

在另一个情景中，我们说一个女人喜欢搂着她

with her favorite teddy bear cuddled next to her. (Laughter)

最喜欢的泰迪熊手淫。（笑声）

People find these to be more morally abhorrent

实验参与者在被提醒要洗手时，

if they've been reminded to wash their hands. (Laughter)

会觉得这些行为更可恶。（笑声）

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Okay. The fact that emotions influence our judgment

好吧。情感影响我们的判断

should come as no surprise. I mean,

这点不足吃惊。我的意思是，

that's part of how emotions work.

情感就是这样的。

They not only motivate you to behave in certain ways,

它们不仅促使你按某些特定行为做事，

but they change the way you think.

还改变你的思考方式。

In the case of disgust, what is a little bit more surprising

在厌恶这个例子中，稍微有点令人吃惊的是

is the scope of this influence. It makes perfect sense,

它的影响范围。这很合理，

and it's a very good emotion for us to have, that disgust

厌恶是一个非常好的情感，

would make me change the way that I perceive

它能让我在毒害可能存在时

the physical world whenever contamination is possible.

改变我对物理世界的感知方式。

It makes less sense that an emotion that was built

但一种防止我吃下毒药的情感

to prevent me from ingesting poison should predict

能预测我会在接下来的总统竞选中给谁投票

who I'm going to vote for in the upcoming presidential election.

这就没什么道理了。

The question of whether disgust ought to influence

厌恶是否应该影响我们的

our moral and political judgments

道德和政治判断，这个问题

certainly has to be complex, and might depend on exactly

很复杂，也许和我们说的判断到底是

what judgments we're talking about, and as a scientist,

什么判断有关，作为一个科学家，

we have to conclude sometimes that the scientific method

我们不得不断定，有时候，科学方法

is just ill-equipped to answer these sorts of questions.

没有良好的装备来回答这些问题。

But one thing that I am fairly certain about is,

但我很肯定的一点是，

at the very least, what we can do with this research is

至少，我们靠这个研究能做的是

point to what questions we ought to ask in the first place.

指出什么样的问题是我们应该先提出的。

Thank you. (Applause)

谢谢。（掌声）