Steven Pinker and Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: The long reach of reason

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Ivana Korom

["Rebecca Newberger Goldstein"]

[Rebeka Njuberger Goldstajn]

["Steven Pinker"]

[Stiven Pinker]

["The Long Reach of Reason"]

["Dalekosežnost razuma"]

Cabbie: Twenty-two dollars. Steven Pinker: Okay.

Taksista: Dvadeset dva dolara. Stiven Pinker: Okej.

Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: Reason appears to have fallen on hard times:

Rebeka Njuberger Goldstajn: Čini se da se teško vreme nadvilo nad razumom:

Popular culture plumbs new depths of dumbth

pop kultura pronalazi nove dubine gluposti,

and political discourse has become a race

a politički diskurs je postao trka

to the bottom.

do dna.

We're living in an era of scientific creationism,

Živimo u vremenu naučnog kreacionizma,

9/11 conspiracy theories, psychic hotlines,

teorija zavere o 11. septembru, vidovnjačkih hotlajna

and a resurgence of religious fundamentalism.

i preporoda religijskog fundamentalizma.

People who think too well

Ljudi koji suviše dobro promišljaju

are often accused of elitism,

optuženi su za elitizam,

and even in the academy,

a čak i među akademicima

there are attacks on logocentrism,

imamo optužbe za logocentrizam,

the crime of letting logic dominate our thinking.

zločin kojim dozvoljavamo logici da dominira našim mišljenjem.

SP: But is this necessarily a bad thing?

SP: No ovo nije nužno loša stvar?

Perhaps reason is overrated.

Možda je razum precenjen.

Many pundits have argued that a good heart

Mnogi učenjaci su smatrali kako su dobro srce

and steadfast moral clarity

i nepokolebljivost moralne jasnoće

are superior to triangulations of overeducated policy wonks,

superiorni u odnosu na ustrojstva suviše obrazovanih političkih stručnjaka,

like the best and brightest and that dragged us

poput onih slavnih i mudrih koji su nas odvukli

into the quagmire of Vietnam.

u vijetnamske kaljuge.

And wasn't it reason that gave us the means

I zar nam razum nije podario sredstva

to despoil the planet

da zagadimo planetu

and threaten our species with weapons of mass destruction?

i da pretimo sopstvenoj vrsti oružjem masovnog uništenja?

In this way of thinking, it's character and conscience,

Ukoliko razmišljamo ovako, spasiće nas karakter i savest,

not cold-hearted calculation, that will save us.

a ne hladnokrvni proračuni.

Besides, a human being is not a brain on a stick.

Osim toga, ljudsko biće nije mozak na štapu.

My fellow psychologists have shown that we're led

Moje kolege psiholozi su nam pokazali da smo vođeni

by our bodies and our emotions

našim telima i našim emocijama,

and use our puny powers of reason

a da koristimo svoje slabašne umne moći

merely to rationalize our gut feelings after the fact.

samo kako bismo racionalizovali svoje instinkte posle učinjenih dela.

RNG: How could a reasoned argument logically entail

RNG: Kako je moguće da razuman argument logično proizlazi

the ineffectiveness of reasoned arguments?

iz neefikasnosti razumnog argumentovanja?

Look, you're trying to persuade us of reason's impotence.

Vidi, pokušavaš da nas ubediš u nemoć razuma.

You're not threatening us or bribing us,

Ne pretiš nam, ne potkupljuješ nas

suggesting that we resolve the issue

pretpostavkama da možemo razrešiti dilemu

with a show of hands or a beauty contest.

dizanjem ruku u vis ili izborom za mis.

By the very act of trying to reason us into your position,

Samim tim što pokušavaš da nas ubediš u svoj stav,

you're conceding reason's potency.

prihvataš moć razuma.

Reason isn't up for grabs here. It can't be.

Ne poseže se ovde za razumom. To je nemoguće.

You show up for that debate

Samo što si se pojavio na toj debati,

and you've already lost it.

već si je izgubio.

SP: But can reason lead us in directions

SP: Ali može li razum da nas vodi u smeru

that are good or decent or moral?

koji bi bio dobar ili pristojan ili moralan?

After all, you pointed out that reason

Konačno, kako si istakla, razum je

is just a means to an end,

samo sredstvo za postizanje cilja,

and the end depends on the reasoner's passions.

a cilj zavisi od strasti onog koji misli.

Reason can lay out a road map to peace and harmony

Razum može da nacrta mapu puta do mira i harmonije,

if the reasoner wants peace and harmony,

ukoliko razumno biće želi mir i harmoniju,

but it can also lay out a road map to conflict and strife

ali, takođe, može i da nacrta mapu puta do sukoba i nesloge,

if the reasoner delights in conflict and strife.

ukoliko razumno biće uživa u sukobu i neslozi.

Can reason force the reasoner to want

Može li razum da natera razumnog da poželi

less cruelty and waste?

manje okrutnosti i manje otpada?

RNG: All on its own, the answer is no,

RNG: Sam po sebi, odgovor bi bio ne

but it doesn't take much to switch it to yes.

ali nije potrebno mnogo da se preokrene u da.

You need two conditions:

Potrebna su ti dva uslova:

The first is that reasoners all care

Prvo, da sva razumna bića mare

about their own well-being.

za sopstvenu dobrobit.

That's one of the passions that has to be present

To je jedna od strasti koja mora da postoji

in order for reason to go to work,

kako bi razum mogao da funkcioniše

and it's obviously present in all of us.

i očigledno je prisutna kod svih nas.

We all care passionately

Svima nam je strasno stalo

about our own well-being.

do sopstvene dobrobiti.

The second condition is that reasoners

Drugi uslov je da su razumna bića

are members of a community of reasoners

članovi društva sačinjenog od razumnih bića

who can affect one another's well-being,

unutar koga mogu da utiču na međusobnu dobrobit,

can exchange messages,

da razmenjuju poruke

and comprehend each other's reasoning.

i razumeju razmišljanja drugih.

And that's certainly true of our gregarious

To je zasigurno istinito kada je naša društvena

and loquatious species,

i brbljiva vrsta u pitanju,

well endowed with the instinct for language.

bogato obdarena instinktom za jezik.

SP: Well, that sounds good in theory,

SP: To zvuči dobro u teoriji,

but has it worked that way in practice?

ali da li se pokazalo tako i u praksi?

In particular, can it explain

Naročito, da li može da objasni

a momentous historical development

trenutni istorijski razvoj,

that I spoke about five years ago here at TED?

o kome sam govorio pre pet godina ovde na TED-u?

Namely, we seem to be getting more humane.

Prvenstveno se čini kako postajemo sve humaniji.

Centuries ago, our ancestors would burn cats alive

Vekovima unazad, među našim precima bilo je popularno

as a form of popular entertainment.

spaljivanje živih mačaka iz zabave.

Knights waged constant war on each other

Vitezovi su stalno međusobno ratovali

by trying to kill as many of each other's peasants as possible.

tako što su jedan drugom ubijali što više seljaka.

Governments executed people for frivolous reasons,

Vlade su ubijale ljude zbog sitnica,

like stealing a cabbage

poput krađe kupusa

or criticizing the royal garden.

ili kritikovanja kraljevske bašte.

The executions were designed to be as prolonged

Pogubljenja su osmišljavana kako bi trajala što duže

and as painful as possible, like crucifixion,

i uzrokovala što više bola, poput razapinjanja,

disembowelment, breaking on the wheel.

kasapljenja, rastezanja na točku.

Respectable people kept slaves.

Ugledni ljudi su imali robove.

For all our flaws, we have abandoned

Uprkos našim manama, napustili smo

these barbaric practices.

ove varvarske običaje.

RNG: So, do you think it's human nature that's changed?

RNG: Da li onda smatraš da se ljudska priroda promenila?

SP: Not exactly. I think we still harbor instincts

SP: Ne baš. Mislim da i dalje gajimo instinkte

that can erupt in violence,

koji mogu da uzrokuju nasilje,

like greed, tribalism, revenge, dominance, sadism.

poput pohlepe, tribalizma, osvete, težnje za dominacijom, sadizma.

But we also have instincts that can steer us away,

Ali takođe imamo i instinkte koji mogu da nas usmere na pravi put,

like self-control, empathy, a sense of fairness,

poput samokontrole, empatije i pravdoljubivosti,

what Abraham Lincoln called

njih je Abraham Linkoln zvao

the better angels of our nature.

boljim anđelima naše prirode.

RNG: So if human nature didn't change,

RNG: Ako se ljudska priroda nije promenila,

what invigorated those better angels?

šta je učvrstilo te bolje anđele?

SP: Well, among other things,

SP: Između ostalog

our circle of empathy expanded.

naš empatijski krug se proširio.

Years ago, our ancestors would feel the pain

Godinama unazad, naši preci su saosećali

only of their family and people in their village.

samo sa svojom porodicom i ljudima iz sela.

But with the expansion of literacy and travel,

No, s razvojem pismenosti i putovanja,

people started to sympathize

ljudi su počeli da saosećaju

with wider and wider circles,

sa sve širim i širim krugovima,

the clan, the tribe, the nation, the race,

klanom, pa plemenom, pa nacijom, rasom

and perhaps eventually, all of humanity.

i možda konačno, sa čitavim čovečanstvom.

RNG: Can hard-headed scientists

RNG: Da li tvrdoglavi naučnici

really give so much credit to soft-hearted empathy?

zaista mogu tolike zasluge da pripišu empatiji mekog srca?

SP: They can and do.

SP: Mogu i hoće.

Neurophysiologists have found neurons in the brain

Neurofiziolozi su pronašli neurone u mozgu

that respond to other people's actions

koji reaguju na tuđe pokrete

the same way they respond to our own.

na isti način kao i na sopstvene.

Empathy emerges early in life,

Empatija se pojavljue u ranom uzrastu,

perhaps before the age of one.

možda i pre prvog rođendana.

Books on empathy have become bestsellers,

Knjige o empatiji su postale bestseleri,

like "The Empathic Civilization"

poput "Empatične civilizacije"

and "The Age of Empathy."

i "Doba empatije".

RNG: I'm all for empathy. I mean, who isn't?

RNG: Ja sam za empatiju. Mislim, ko nije?

But all on its own, it's a feeble instrument

No, sama po sebi, čini se slabašnim oruđem

for making moral progress.

moralnog napretka.

For one thing, it's innately biased

Ako ništa drugo, po prirodi je pristrasna

toward blood relations, babies

kada su u pitanju krvne veze, bebe

and warm, fuzzy animals.

i tople, čupave životinje.

As far as empathy is concerned,

Što se empatije tiče,

ugly outsiders can go to hell.

ružni otpadnici mogu da idu dođavola.

And even our best attempts to work up sympathy

A čak i naša najveća napregnuća da razvijemo naklonost

for those who are unconnected with us

prema onima koje ne poznajemo

fall miserably short, a sad truth about human nature

daju bedne rezultate, tužna istina o ljudskoj prirodi

that was pointed out by Adam Smith.

na koju je ukazao Adam Smit.

Adam Smith: Let us suppose that the great empire

Adam Smit: Pretpostavimo da je veliko kinesko carstvo

of China was suddenly swallowed up by an earthquake,

iznenada progutao zemljotres,

and let us consider how a man of humanity in Europe

razmotrimo kako bi evropski humanista

would react on receiving intelligence

reagovao saznavši

of this dreadful calamity.

za ovu užasnu nesreću.

He would, I imagine, first of all express very strongly

On bi, pretpostavljam, prvo izrazio svoju duboku

his sorrow for the misfortune of that unhappy people.

tugu zbog zle kobi tog nesrećnog naroda.

He would make many melancholy reflections

Izneo bi mnoga melanholična zapažanja

upon the precariousness of human life,

o nestalnosti ljudskog postojanja

and when all these humane sentiments

i nakon što bi jasno izrazio

had been once fairly expressed,

ova svoja ljudska osećanja

he would pursue his business or his pleasure

nastavio bi za svojim poslom ili svojim zadovoljstvima

with the same ease and tranquility

sa istom lakoćom i mirom

as if no such accident had happened.

kao da se nesreća nije ni desila.

If he was to lose his little finger tomorrow,

Ukoliko bi trebalo da izgubi svoj mali prst sutra,

he would not sleep tonight,

noćas ne bi ni oka sklopio,

but provided he never saw them,

no, kako ne poznaje nikog u Kini

he would snore with the most profound security

on će da prespava, ušuškan u svojoj sigurnosti,

over the ruin of a hundred million of his brethren.

uništenje stotine miliona svoje braće.

SP: But if empathy wasn't enough to make us more humane,

SP: Ali ako empatija nije dovoljna da nas učini humanijima

what else was there?

šta nam preostaje?

RNG: Well, you didn't mention what might be

RNG: Nisi spomenuo ono što bi moglo da bude

one of our most effective better angels: reason.

naš najefikasniji bolji anđeo: razum.

Reason has muscle.

Razum je snažan.

It's reason that provides the push to widen

Razum je obezbedio podsticaj da se proširi

that circle of empathy.

taj krug empatije.

Every one of the humanitarian developments

Sav ljudski razvoj

that you mentioned originated with thinkers

koji si pomenuo potiče od mislilaca

who gave reasons for why some practice

koji su obrazlagali zašto su određeni običaji

was indefensible.

neodbranivi.

They demonstrated that the way people treated

Pokazali su da je način na koji ljudi tretiraju

some particular group of others

određene grupe ljudi

was logically inconsistent

logički nepostojan

with the way they insisted on being treated themselves.

s načinom na koji žele da njih tretiraju.

SP: Are you saying that reason

SP: Da li želiš da kažeš kako

can actually change people's minds?

razum može da promeni umove ljudi?

Don't people just stick with whatever conviction

Zar se ljudi ne drže ubeđenja

serves their interests

koja služe njihovim interesima

or conforms to the culture that they grew up in?

i zar se ne pokoravaju kulturi u kojoj su odrasli?

RNG: Here's a fascinating fact about us:

RNG: Evo jedne zanimljive činjenice o nama:

Contradictions bother us,

protivrečnosti nas uznemiravaju,

at least when we're forced to confront them,

barem onda kad smo primorani da se suočimo s njima,

which is just another way of saying

što je samo drugi način da kažemo

that we are susceptible to reason.

kako smo podložni razumu.

And if you look at the history of moral progress,

I ako posmatraš istoriju moralnog napretka,

you can trace a direct pathway from reasoned arguments

možeš direktno da pratiš stazu od obrazloženih argumenata

to changes in the way that we actually feel.

do konretnih promena naših osećanja.

Time and again, a thinker would lay out an argument

Iznova, mislilac bi iznosio argumente

as to why some practice was indefensible,

zašto je neki običaj neodbraniv,

irrational, inconsistent with values already held.

iracionalan, neusklađen sa upostavljenim vrednostima.

Their essay would go viral,

Njihovi eseji bi se širili,

get translated into many languages,

prevodili na mnoge jezike,

get debated at pubs and coffee houses and salons,

raspravljalo bi se o njima u pabovima, kafanama i salonima,

and at dinner parties,

na večernjim zabavama,

and influence leaders, legislators,

i uticali bi na vođe, zakonodavce,

popular opinion.

javno mnenje.

Eventually their conclusions get absorbed

Vremenom bi njihovi zaključci bili ugrađeni

into the common sense of decency,

u zdravorazumsko shvatanje pristojnosti,

erasing the tracks of the original argument

brišući tako staze originalnog argumenta

that had gotten us there.

kojima smo stigli dotle.

Few of us today feel any need to put forth

Nema nas mnogo koji bi doveli u pitanje

a rigorous philosophical argument

strogi filozofski argument

as to why slavery is wrong

zašto je robovlasništvo loše,

or public hangings or beating children.

ili javna vešanja ili prebijanje dece.

By now, these things just feel wrong.

Trenutno, ovo se prosto čini pogrešnim.

But just those arguments had to be made,

Ali upravo ti argumenti su morali da nastanu,

and they were, in centuries past.

kao što i jesu, u prošlim vekovima.

SP: Are you saying that people needed

SP: Hoćeš li da kažeš kako je ljudima bilo potrebno

a step-by-step argument to grasp

da postupno stignu do argumenta

why something might be a wee bit wrong

zašto je možda malčice previše pogrešno

with burning heretics at the stake?

spaljivanje jeretika na lomači?

RNG: Oh, they did. Here's the French theologian

RNG: Jeste. Evo kako o tome razmišlja francuski teolog

Sebastian Castellio making the case.

Sebastijan Kastelio.

Sebastian Castellio: Calvin says that he's certain,

Sebastijan Kastelio: Kalvin kaže da je u pravu,

and other sects say that they are.

i druge sekte kažu to isto.

Who shall be judge?

Ko će da sudi?

If the matter is certain, to whom is it so? To Calvin?

Ukoliko je stvar jasna, kome je jasna? Kalvinu?

But then, why does he write so many books about manifest truth?

Ali opet, zašto toliko piše o očiglednoj istini.

In view of the uncertainty, we must define heretics

Suočeni s neizvesnošću, moramo da definišemo jeretike

simply as one with whom we disagree.

prosto kao one sa kojima se ne slažemo.

And if then we are going to kill heretics,

I ako bismo hteli da pobijemo jeretike,

the logical outcome will be a war of extermination,

logičan rezultat bi bio rat do istrebljenja,

since each is sure of himself.

jer svako za sebe misli da je u pravu.

SP: Or with hideous punishments

SP: A odvratne kazne

like breaking on the wheel?

poput rastezanja na točku?

RNG: The prohibition in our constitution

RNG: Naš ustav je zabranio

of cruel and unusual punishments

okrutna i neuobičajena kažnjavanja

was a response to a pamphlet circulated in 1764

kao odgovor na pamflet koji je kružio tokom 1764,

by the Italian jurist Cesare Beccaria.

a napisao ga je italijanski pravnik Ćezare Bekaria.

Cesare Beccaria: As punishments become more cruel,

Ćezare Bekaria: Kako kažnjavanja postaju sve okrutnija,

the minds of men, which like fluids

ljudski umovi, koji se poput tečnosti

always adjust to the level of the objects

uvek prilagođavaju veličini posude u kojoj su,

that surround them, become hardened,

očvršćavaju

and after a hundred years of cruel punishments,

i nakon sto godina okrutnog kažnjavanja

breaking on the wheel causes no more fear

rastezanje na točku više ne izaziva nimalo veći strah

than imprisonment previously did.

nego što je zatvor nekada.

For a punishment to achieve its objective,

Kako bi kazna postigla svoj cilj,

it is only necessary that the harm that it inflicts

dovoljno je da povreda koju nanosi

outweighs the benefit that derives from the crime,

prevazilazi korist proisteklu iz zločina

and into this calculation ought to be factored

i u ovaj proračun bi trebalo uračunati

the certainty of punishment

izvesnost kazne

and the loss of the good

i lišavanje dobra

that the commission of the crime will produce.

koje bi provodila komisija za prekršaje.

Everything beyond this is superfluous,

Sve mimo ovoga je izlišno

and therefore tyrannical.

i samim tim tiranija.

SP: But surely antiwar movements depended

SP: Ali svakako da su antiratni pokreti zavisili

on mass demonstrations

od masovnih demonstracija

and catchy tunes by folk singers

i zavodljivih melodija folk muzičara

and wrenching photographs of the human costs of war.

i potresnih fotografija ratnih gubitaka u ljudstvu.

RNG: No doubt, but modern anti-war movements

RNG: Nesumnjivo, ali moderni antiratni pokreti

reach back to a long chain of thinkers

sežu do dugog niza mislilaca

who had argued as to why we ought to mobilize

koji su raspravljali zašto je neophodno da usmeravamo

our emotions against war,

naše emocije protiv rata.

such as the father of modernity, Erasmus.

Jedan od njih je Erazmo, otac modernizma.

Erasmus: The advantages derived from peace

Erazmo: Prednosti mira

diffuse themselves far and wide,

rasprostranjuju se nadaleko i naširoko

and reach great numbers,

i dosežu velike cifre,

while in war, if anything turns out happily,

dok u ratu, ako šta i izađe na dobro,

the advantage redounds only to a few,

to koristi nekolicini

and those unworthy of reaping it.

i to onima što ne zaslužuju tu dobit.

One man's safety is owing to the destruction of another.

Sigurnost pojedinca duguje se uništenju drugog.

One man's prize is derived from the plunder of another.

Ono što je za jednog nagrada, opljačkano je od drugog.

The cause of rejoicings made by one side

Razlog za radost na jednoj strani

is to the other a cause of mourning.

drugoj strani uzrokuje tugu.

Whatever is unfortunate in war,

Sva šteta nastala u ratu

is severely so indeed,

uistinu je ozbiljna,

and whatever, on the contrary,

a sve ono što, s druge strane,

is called good fortune,

zovemo dobrom srećom,

is a savage and a cruel good fortune,

je divlja i okrutna dobra sreća,

an ungenerous happiness deriving its existence from another's woe.

nedobronamerna sreća što proističe iz tuđeg jada.

SP: But everyone knows that the movement

SP: Ali svi znaju da je pokret

to abolish slavery depended on faith and emotion.

za ukidanje ropstva zavisio od vere i od osećanja.

It was a movement spearheaded by the Quakers,

Bio je to pokret koji su predvodili Kvekeri,

and it only became popular when Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel

a tek je postao popularan kada je roman "Čiča Tomina koliba"

"Uncle Tom's Cabin" became a bestseller.

od Herijet Bičer Stou postao bestseler.

RNG: But the ball got rolling a century before.

RNG: Ali lavina se zakotrljala vek ranije.

John Locke bucked the tide of millennia

DŽon Lok se suprotstavio milenijumskoj struji

that had regarded the practice as perfectly natural.

koja je smatrala sasvim prirodnim taj običaj.

He argued that it was inconsistent

Smatrao je kako je ropstvo protivrečno

with the principles of rational government.

principima racionalne vladavine.

John Locke: Freedom of men under government

Džon Lok: Vlada obezbeđuje narodu slobodu

is to have a standing rule to live by

donoseći postojane zakone kojima se ljudi vode

common to everyone of that society

jednake za sve ljude u tom društvu,

and made by the legislative power erected in it,

a koje određuje legislativno telo proizašlo iz naroda,

a liberty to follow my own will in all things

sloboda da sledim sopstvenu volju svagda

where that rule prescribes not,

osim kad mi zakon preporučuje suprotno,

not to be subject to the inconstant,

da ne budem predmet nestalne,

uncertain, unknown, arbitrary will of another man,

neizvesne, nepoznate, proizvoljne volje drugog čoveka,

as freedom of nature is to be under no other restraint

jer prirodna sloboda znači jedino biti ograničen

but the law of nature.

zakonima prirode.

SP: Those words sound familiar.

SP: Te reči mi zvuče poznato.

Where have I read them before? Ah, yes.

Gde li sam ih već čuo? Pa da!

Mary Astell: If absolute sovereignty be not necessary

Meri Astel: Ukoliko apsolutni suverenitet nije nužan za državu,

in a state, how comes it to be so in a family?

kako to da jeste za porodicu?

Or if in a family, why not in a state?

Ili ako jeste u porodici, zašto nije u državi?

Since no reason can be alleged for the one

Jer nema obrazloženja koje se može navesti za jedno,

that will not hold more strongly for the other,

a da se snažnije ne odnosi na drugo.

if all men are born free,

Ako su svi ljudi rođeni slobodni,

how is it that all women are born slaves,

kako to da se žene rađaju kao robovi,

as they must be if being subjected

pošto to i jesu, ako su izložene

to the inconstant, uncertain,

nestalnoj, neizvesnoj,

unknown, arbitrary will of men

nepoznatoj, proizvoljnoj volji muškaraca.

be the perfect condition of slavery?

Nije li to savršen uslov za ropstvo?

RNG: That sort of co-option

RNG: Slična ulančavanja argumenata

is all in the job description of reason.

sva su u službi razuma.

One movement for the expansion of rights

Jedan pokret za proširenje prava

inspires another because the logic is the same,

inspiriše drugi, jer je logika koju sledi ista

and once that's hammered home,

i jednom kada pronađe svoje utemeljenje

it becomes increasingly uncomfortable

postaje sve neprijatnije

to ignore the inconsistency.

ignorisati nedoslednosti.

In the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement

Pokret za građanska prava iz 1960-ih

inspired the movements for women's rights,

inspirisao je pokrete za prava žena,

children's rights, gay rights and even animal rights.

prava dece, prava homoseksualaca, pa čak i prava životinja.

But fully two centuries before,

No puna dva veka ranije

the Enlightenment thinker Jeremy Bentham

Džeremi Bentam, mislilac prosvetiteljstva

had exposed the indefensibility

izneo je neodbranivost

of customary practices such as

onih običaja kojima se ispoljava

the cruelty to animals.

okrutnost prema životinjama.

Jeremy Bentham: The question is not, can they reason,

DŽeremi Bentam: Ne postavljajmo pitanje, jesu li razumne

nor can they talk, but can they suffer?

ili mogu li životinje da govore, već da li osećaju bol?

RNG: And the persecution of homosexuals.

RNG: A šta je sa progonom homoseksualaca?

JB: As to any primary mischief,

DŽB: Ukoliko na to gledamo kao na neposlušnost

it's evident that it produces no pain in anyone.

očigledno je da ona ne povređuje nikoga.

On the contrary, it produces pleasure.

Naprotiv, ona stvara zadovoljstvo.

The partners are both willing.

Partneri svojevoljno pristaju na to.

If either of them be unwilling,

Ako je jedan od njih primoran,

the act is an offense,

čin se smatra prekršajem,

totally different in its nature of effects.

što je u suštini potpuno različito.

It's a personal injury. It's a kind of rape.

To je povreda ličnosti. Oblik silovanja.

As to the any danger exclusive of pain,

Ako i postoji opasnost mimo nanošenja bola

the danger, if any, much consist

ona je, ako je uopšte i ima, prilično sadržana

in the tendency of the example.

u nameri iskazanoj u primeru.

But what is the tendency of this example?

Ali šta je svrha ovog primera?

To dispose others to engage in the same practices.

Da navede druge da upražnjavaju slične sklonosti.

But this practice produces not pain of any kind

Ali upražnjavanje ovih sklonosti ne nanosi nikakav

to anyone.

bol nikome.

SP: Still, in every case, it took at least a century

SP: Ipak, bilo je potrebno da prođe skoro čitav vek

for the arguments of these great thinkers

kako bi se slični argumenti velikih mislilaca

to trickle down and infiltrate the population as a whole.

probili i infiltrirali u celokupno društvo.

It kind of makes you wonder about our own time.

Počneš da se pitaš o svom vremenu.

Are there practices that we engage in

Postoje li neki običaji kojih se držimo,

where the arguments against them are there for all to see

protiv kojih su argumenti više nego očigledni,

but nonetheless we persist in them?

ali mi ih se ipak pridržavamo?

RNG: When our great grandchildren look back at us,

RNG: Kada se naši unuci budu osvrtali na nas

will they be as appalled by some of our practices

da li će biti podjednako zgroženi nekim našim postupcima

as we are by our slave-owning, heretic-burning,

kao što smo mi zgroženi robovlasništvom, spaljivanjem jeretika

wife-beating, gay-bashing ancestors?

nasiljem nad ženama, precima što mlate homoseksualce?

SP: I'm sure everyone here could think of an example.

SP: Siguran sam da svako može da nađe neki primer.

RNG: I opt for the mistreatment of animals

RNG: Ja biram loše uslove života životinja

in factory farms.

na fabričkim farmama.

SP: The imprisonment of nonviolent drug offenders

SP: Lišavanje slobode nenasilnih narkomana

and the toleration of rape in our nation's prisons.

i tolerancija silovanja unutar državnih zatvora.

RNG: Scrimping on donations to life-saving charities

RNG: Škrtarenje na donacijama udruženjima koja spašavaju živote

in the developing world.

u nerazvijenom svetu.

SP: The possession of nuclear weapons.

SP: Posedovanje nuklearnog oružja.

RNG: The appeal to religion to justify

RNG: Sklonost religije da opravda,

the otherwise unjustifiable,

ono što se ne može opravdati

such as the ban on contraception.

poput zabrane kontracepcije.

SP: What about religious faith in general?

SP: Šta je sa religijom uopšte?

RNG: Eh, I'm not holding my breath.

RNG: Uh, to ne očekujem.

SP: Still, I have become convinced

SP: Ipak, ubeđen sam

that reason is a better angel

da je razum bolji anđeo

that deserves the greatest credit

kome dugujemo najveću zahvalnost

for the moral progress our species has enjoyed

za moralni napredak naše vrste

and that holds out the greatest hope

i u njega polažem najveće nade

for continuing moral progress in the future.

kada je kontinuitet budućeg moralnog napretka u pitanju.

RNG: And if, our friends,

RNG: Prijatelji,

you detect a flaw in this argument,

ako uočite grešku u ovom argumentu,

just remember you'll be depending on reason

zapamtite, oslonićete se na razum

to point it out.

kako bi je razotkrili.

Thank you. SP: Thank you.

Hvala. SP: Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)