Steven Pinker and Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: The long reach of reason

153,576 views ใƒป 2014-03-17

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Sungho Yoo ๊ฒ€ํ† : Jihyeon J. Kim
00:13
["Rebecca Newberger Goldstein"]
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[๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด ๋‰ด๋ฒ„๊ฑฐ ๊ณจ๋“œ์Šคํƒ€์ธ]
00:16
["Steven Pinker"]
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[์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ ํ•‘์ปค]
00:18
["The Long Reach of Reason"]
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[๋ฉ€๋ฆฌ๊นŒ์ง€ ๋ฏธ์น˜๋Š” ์ด์„ฑ]
00:23
Cabbie: Twenty-two dollars. Steven Pinker: Okay.
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ํƒ์‹œ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ: 22๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์š”.
00:29
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: Reason appears to have fallen on hard times:
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์ด์„ฑ์€ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์‹œ๋Œ€๋ฅผ ๋งž๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
00:33
Popular culture plumbs new depths of dumbth
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๋Œ€์ค‘๋ฌธํ™”๋Š” ๋ฉ์ฒญํ•จ์˜ ๊นŠ์ด๋ฅผ ๋”ํ•˜๊ณ 
00:37
and political discourse has become a race
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์ •์น˜์  ๋‹ด๋ก ์˜ ์ˆ˜์ค€์€ ๋ฐ”๋‹ฅ์œผ๋กœ ์น˜๋‹ฌ์•˜์ง€์š”.
00:39
to the bottom.
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00:42
We're living in an era of scientific creationism,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ณผํ•™์  ์ฐฝ์กฐ๋ก ,
00:47
9/11 conspiracy theories, psychic hotlines,
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9/11 ์Œ๋ชจ๋ก , ์ „ํ™” ์‹ฌ๋ น์ˆ  ์„œ๋น„์Šค,
00:51
and a resurgence of religious fundamentalism.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ข…๊ต์  ๊ทผ๋ณธ์ฃผ์˜ ๋ถ€ํ™œ์˜ ์‹œ๋Œ€์— ์‚ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
00:54
People who think too well
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๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๋˜‘๋˜‘ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€
00:56
are often accused of elitism,
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์ข…์ข… ์—˜๋ฆฌํŠธ์ฃผ์˜์ž๋กœ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ๋‹นํ•˜๊ณ ,
00:58
and even in the academy,
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ํ•™๊ณ„ ๋‚ด์—์„œ๋„,
01:01
there are attacks on logocentrism,
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๋…ผ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋ฅผ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋Š” ์ฃ„์ธ
01:03
the crime of letting logic dominate our thinking.
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๋กœ๊ณ ์Šค ์ค‘์‹ฌ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ๊ณต๊ฒฉ์„ ๋ฐ›๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€์š”.
01:08
SP: But is this necessarily a bad thing?
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๊ผญ ๋‚˜์œ ๊ฑธ๊นŒ์š”?
01:11
Perhaps reason is overrated.
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์•„๋งˆ๋„ ์ด์„ฑ์ด ๊ณผ๋Œ€ํ‰๊ฐ€ ๋œ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๊ตฐ์š”.
01:13
Many pundits have argued that a good heart
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๋งŽ์€ ์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ์„ ์˜์™€
01:15
and steadfast moral clarity
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ํ™•๊ณ ํ•œ ๋„๋•์  ํˆฌ๋ช…์„ฑ์€
01:17
are superior to triangulations of overeducated policy wonks,
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๊ณผ์ž‰ ๊ต์œก์„ ๋ฐ›์€ ์ •์น˜๊พผ์˜ ์‚ผ๊ฐ ์ธก๋Ÿ‰๋ณด๋‹ค ๋›ฐ์–ด๋‚˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ฃผ์žฅํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:21
like the best and brightest and that dragged us
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์ตœ๊ณ ๋กœ ์šฐ์ˆ˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋˜‘๋˜‘ํ•œ ๊ทธ์ž๋“ค์ด
01:24
into the quagmire of Vietnam.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋ฒ ํŠธ๋‚จ์˜ ์ง„์ฐฝ์— ๋Œ์–ด๋“ค์˜€๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ์š”.
01:26
And wasn't it reason that gave us the means
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์—๊ฒŒ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ํ›ผ์†ํ•  ๋นŒ๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด
01:27
to despoil the planet
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๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ด์„ฑ ์•„๋‹Œ๊ฐ€์š”?
01:29
and threaten our species with weapons of mass destruction?
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๋Œ€๋Ÿ‰ํ•™์‚ด ๋ฌด๊ธฐ๋กœ ์šฐ๋ฆด ์œ„ํ˜‘ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋„์š”?
01:32
In this way of thinking, it's character and conscience,
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์‚ฌ๊ณ  ๋ฐฉ์‹ํ•˜์—์„œ๋Š”
์˜จ์ •์—†๋Š” ๊ณ„์‚ฐ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ, ์ธ๊ฒฉ๊ณผ ์–‘์‹ฌ์ด ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์ฑ…์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:35
not cold-hearted calculation, that will save us.
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01:39
Besides, a human being is not a brain on a stick.
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์ธ๊ฐ„์ด๋ž€ ๋ง‰๋Œ€์— ๊ฝ‚ํžŒ ๋‘๋‡Œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:42
My fellow psychologists have shown that we're led
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์ œ ๋™๋ฃŒ ์‹ฌ๋ฆฌํ•™์ž๋“ค์€
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ์ฒด์™€ ์ •์‹ ์— ์ด๋Œ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์กด์žฌ์ด๋ฉฐ,
01:45
by our bodies and our emotions
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01:47
and use our puny powers of reason
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๋‹จ์ง€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ง๊ฐ์„ ์‚ฌํ›„ ํ•ฉ๋ฆฌํ™”ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด
01:49
merely to rationalize our gut feelings after the fact.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ฐ•์•ฝํ•œ ์ด์„ฑ์˜ ํž˜์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฐํ˜”์–ด์š”.
01:52
RNG: How could a reasoned argument logically entail
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ด์„ฑ์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด
01:55
the ineffectiveness of reasoned arguments?
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์ด์„ฑ์  ๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ํ—›๋จ์„ ๋…ผ๋ฆฌ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
01:59
Look, you're trying to persuade us of reason's impotence.
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์ด๋ด์š”, ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์˜ ๋ฌด๋ ฅํ•จ์„ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์—๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋“ํ•˜๋ ค ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€์š”.
02:03
You're not threatening us or bribing us,
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ฑฐ์ˆ˜ํˆฌํ‘œ๋‚˜ ๋ฏธ์ธ๋Œ€ํšŒ์˜ ํ˜•์‹์œผ๋กœ
02:05
suggesting that we resolve the issue
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๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ฃผ์žฅํ•˜๋ฉฐ
02:07
with a show of hands or a beauty contest.
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์šฐ๋ฆด ํ˜‘๋ฐ•ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋งค์ˆ˜ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๊ตฐ์š”.
02:10
By the very act of trying to reason us into your position,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋‹น์‹  ์ž…์žฅ์—์„œ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ํ–‰๋™ ๊ทธ ์ž์ฒด๋กœ
02:14
you're conceding reason's potency.
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์˜ ํž˜์„ ์ธ์ •ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:17
Reason isn't up for grabs here. It can't be.
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์ด์„ฑ์€ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ๋‚˜ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
02:20
You show up for that debate
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์— ์˜ค์‹ ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ 
02:21
and you've already lost it.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์˜๋ฏธ์—์„œ ์ด๋ฏธ ํŒจ๋ฐฐํ•˜์…จ๋„ค์š”.
02:24
SP: But can reason lead us in directions
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์ด์„ฑ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ข‹์€ ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ,
02:27
that are good or decent or moral?
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๋ฐ˜๋“ฏํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋„๋•์ ์ธ ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ ์ธ๋„ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
02:29
After all, you pointed out that reason
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์ด ๋‹จ์ง€
02:32
is just a means to an end,
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๊ฒฐ๋ก ์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ์ˆ˜๋‹จ์ผ ๋ฟ์ด๋ฉฐ
02:34
and the end depends on the reasoner's passions.
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๊ฒฐ๋ก ์€ ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€์˜ ์—ด์ •์— ๋‹ฌ๋ ค ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ง€์ ํ•˜์˜€์ง€์š”.
02:36
Reason can lay out a road map to peace and harmony
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์ด์„ฑ์€ ํ‰ํ™”์™€ ํ™”ํ•ฉ์„ ํ–ฅํ•œ ์ฒญ์‚ฌ์ง„์„ ์ œ์‹œํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:39
if the reasoner wants peace and harmony,
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์›ํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
02:41
but it can also lay out a road map to conflict and strife
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด์„ฑ์€ ๋˜ํ•œ ๊ฐˆ๋“ฑ๊ณผ ๋ถˆํ™”์˜ ์ฒญ์‚ฌ์ง„์„ ์ œ์‹œํ•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:44
if the reasoner delights in conflict and strife.
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๋งŒ์ผ ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๊ฐˆ๋“ฑ๊ณผ ๋ถˆํ™”๋ฅผ ์ฆ๊ธด๋‹ค๋ฉด์š”.
02:46
Can reason force the reasoner to want
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์ด์„ฑ์ด ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๋กœ ํ•˜์—ฌ๊ธˆ ๋œ ์ž”์ธํ•จ์„ ์›ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•˜์—ฌ
02:49
less cruelty and waste?
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๊ทธ๋ฅผ ํŒจ๋ฐฐ์‹œํ‚ฌ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
02:51
RNG: All on its own, the answer is no,
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๊ทธ ์งˆ๋ฌธ ์ž์ฒด์˜ ๋Œ€๋‹ต์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ์ €๋Š” '์•„๋‹ˆ์˜ค'๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:54
but it doesn't take much to switch it to yes.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด๊ฒƒ์„ '๋„ค'๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋ ต์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:57
You need two conditions:
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๋‘๊ฐ€์ง€ ์กฐ๊ฑด๋งŒ ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉด ๋˜์ฃ .
02:59
The first is that reasoners all care
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์ฒซ์งธ, ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ์ž์‹ ์˜ ์•ˆ๋…•์„
03:02
about their own well-being.
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๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊น๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:03
That's one of the passions that has to be present
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์„ ์ž‘๋™์‹œํ‚ค๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ์กด์žฌํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ์—ด์ • ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜์ง€์š”.
03:06
in order for reason to go to work,
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03:09
and it's obviously present in all of us.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ช…๋ฐฑํžˆ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋“ค ์•ˆ์— ์กด์žฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:10
We all care passionately
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ์ž์‹ ์˜ ์•ˆ๋…•์„ ์—ด์ •์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ถ”๊ตฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:13
about our own well-being.
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03:15
The second condition is that reasoners
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๋‘˜์งธ, ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ๋‹ค์Œ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋ถ€๋ฅ˜์—ฌ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:17
are members of a community of reasoners
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03:20
who can affect one another's well-being,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ถ”๋ก ๊ฐ€๋“ค์˜ ์•ˆ๋…•์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ์ค„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
03:22
can exchange messages,
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๊ทธ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋ฉ”์„ธ์ง€๋ฅผ ์ฃผ๊ณ ๋ฐ›์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
03:23
and comprehend each other's reasoning.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ์ถ”๋ก ์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜์ง€์š”.
03:26
And that's certainly true of our gregarious
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ์กฐ๊ฑด์€ ์‚ฌ๊ต์ ์ด๊ณ ,
03:29
and loquatious species,
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์ˆ˜๋‹ค์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šฐ๋ฉฐ,
03:31
well endowed with the instinct for language.
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์–ธ์–ด์˜ ๋ณธ๋Šฅ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ํƒœ์–ด๋‚œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์ธ๊ฐ„์—๊ฒŒ ๋”ฑ ๋“ค์–ด๋งž์ฃ .
03:34
SP: Well, that sounds good in theory,
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๊ธ€์Ž„์š”, ์ด๋ก ์ƒ์œผ๋ก  ์˜ณ์€ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๊ตฐ์š”.
03:36
but has it worked that way in practice?
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ๋„ ๊ทธ๋Ÿด๊นŒ์š”?
03:38
In particular, can it explain
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ํŠนํžˆ, ๊ทธ ์ด๋ก ์ด ์ œ๊ฐ€ 5๋…„์ „ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ TED์—์„œ ๊ฐ•์—ฐํ•œ
03:40
a momentous historical development
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03:42
that I spoke about five years ago here at TED?
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์ค‘๋Œ€ํ•œ ์—ญ์‚ฌ์  ๋ฐœ์ „์„ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
03:45
Namely, we seem to be getting more humane.
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์ฆ‰, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ ์ฐจ ์ธ๋„์ฃผ์˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋˜์–ด๊ฐ€๋Š” ๋“ฏ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:47
Centuries ago, our ancestors would burn cats alive
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๋ช‡๋ฐฑ๋…„ ์ „, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์„ ์กฐ๋“ค์€ ๋Œ€์ค‘์ ์ธ ์˜ค๋ฝ๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ์œผ๋กœ์จ
03:51
as a form of popular entertainment.
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๊ณ ์–‘์ด๋ฅผ ์‚ฐ ์ฑ„๋กœ ํƒœ์šฐ๊ธฐ๋„ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:53
Knights waged constant war on each other
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๊ธฐ์‚ฌ๋“ค์€ ์„œ๋กœ ๋Š์ž„์—†๋Š” ์ „์Ÿ์„ ๋ฒŒ์—ฌ
03:55
by trying to kill as many of each other's peasants as possible.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ์˜ ์†Œ์ž‘๋ฏผ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ํ•œ ๋งŽ์ด ์ฃฝ์ด๋ ค ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:58
Governments executed people for frivolous reasons,
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์ •๋ถ€๋Š” ๋ง๋„ ์•ˆ๋˜๋Š” ์ด์œ ๋กœ ์‚ฌํ˜•์„ ์ง‘ํ–‰ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
04:01
like stealing a cabbage
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์–‘๋ฐฐ์ถ”๋ฅผ ํ›”์ณค๋‹ค๋˜์ง€,
04:02
or criticizing the royal garden.
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์™•๊ถ์˜ ์ •์›์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ํ—˜๋‹ด์„ ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ด์œ ์˜€์ง€์š”.
04:04
The executions were designed to be as prolonged
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์‚ฌํ˜•์€ ์ฒœ์ฒœํžˆ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ตœ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ดด๋กญ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:07
and as painful as possible, like crucifixion,
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์‹ญ์ž๊ฐ€์— ๋ชป๋ฐ•๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•, ํ• ๋ณต, ๊ฑฐ์—ดํ˜• ๋“ฑ์„ ์˜ˆ๋กœ ๋“ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
04:10
disembowelment, breaking on the wheel.
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04:12
Respectable people kept slaves.
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์กด๊ฒฝ๋ฐ›๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๋…ธ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ์†Œ์œ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:14
For all our flaws, we have abandoned
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฐํ•จ์„ ๋”›๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์•ผ๋งŒ์  ๊ด€ํ–‰์„ ๋ฒ„๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:16
these barbaric practices.
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04:17
RNG: So, do you think it's human nature that's changed?
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์ธ๊ฐ„๋ณธ์„ฑ์ด ๋ฐ”๋€Œ์—ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ฐ€์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
04:20
SP: Not exactly. I think we still harbor instincts
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๊ทธ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ €๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์•„์ง๋„
ํƒ์š•, ๋ถ€์กฑ์ฃผ์˜, ๋ณต์ˆ˜์‹ฌ, ์ง€๋ฐฐ์‹ฌ, ๊ฐ€ํ•™์ฆ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€
04:23
that can erupt in violence,
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04:24
like greed, tribalism, revenge, dominance, sadism.
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ํญ๋ ฅ์„ฑ ์•ˆ์—์„œ ๋ถ„์ถœ๋˜๋Š” ๋ณธ๋Šฅ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:29
But we also have instincts that can steer us away,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ธ๊ฐ„์€ ์ด๋“ค์„ ๋ฉ€๋ฆฌํ•  ๋ณธ๋Šฅ๋„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:32
like self-control, empathy, a sense of fairness,
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์ž์ œ๋ ฅ, ๊ณต๊ฐ, ๊ณต์ •์˜์‹์ด ์ผ๋ก€์ฃ .
04:35
what Abraham Lincoln called
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์ด๋Š” ๋ง์ปจ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น์ด ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์˜ ์ข‹์€ ์ธก๋ฉด์ด์ง€์š”.
04:37
the better angels of our nature.
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04:38
RNG: So if human nature didn't change,
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๋งŒ์•ฝ ์ธ๊ฐ„์˜ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์ด ๋ณ€ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋‹ค๋ฉด
04:40
what invigorated those better angels?
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๋ฌด์—‡์ด ๊ทธ ์ข‹์€ ์ธก๋ฉด์„ ํ™œ์„ฑํ™” ์‹œํ‚จ๊ฑฐ์ฃ ?
04:42
SP: Well, among other things,
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์ง€๋งŒ ์šฐ์„ , ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ณต๊ฐ ๋Œ€์ƒ์ด ๋„“์–ด์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:44
our circle of empathy expanded.
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04:46
Years ago, our ancestors would feel the pain
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์˜›๋‚ ์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์„ ์กฐ๋“ค์€ ์˜ค์ง
04:48
only of their family and people in their village.
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๊ฐ€์กฑ์ด๋‚˜ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋งˆ์„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์˜ ๊ณ ํ†ต๋งŒ์„ ๋Š๊ผˆ์ฃ .
04:51
But with the expansion of literacy and travel,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ธ€ ์ฝ๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ๊ณผ ์ด๋™ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ๋ฐœ์ „ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
04:54
people started to sympathize
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ ์  ๋” ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋” ๋„“์€ ๋Œ€์ƒ์— ๊ณต๊ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:56
with wider and wider circles,
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04:57
the clan, the tribe, the nation, the race,
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์”จ์กฑ, ๋ถ€์กฑ, ๊ตญ๊ฐ€, ์ธ์ข…,
05:00
and perhaps eventually, all of humanity.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„๋งˆ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ์€ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ธ๋ฅ˜๋กœ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
05:03
RNG: Can hard-headed scientists
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๊ณผ์—ฐ ๋ƒ‰์ •ํ•œ ๊ณผํ•™์ž๋“ค์ด
05:05
really give so much credit to soft-hearted empathy?
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๋ถ€๋“œ๋Ÿฌ์šด ๊ฐœ๋…์ธ ๊ณต๊ฐ์ด๋ž€ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ •๋ง ์—ด๋ ฌํžˆ ๋ฏฟ์„๊นŒ์š”?
05:08
SP: They can and do.
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ .
05:10
Neurophysiologists have found neurons in the brain
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์‹ ๊ฒฝ์ƒ๋ฆฌํ•™์ž๋“ค์€ ๋‡Œ ์†์—์„œ ์ž๊ธฐ ์ž์‹ ์˜ ํ–‰๋™์— ๋ฐ˜์‘ํ•˜๋“ฏ์ด
05:12
that respond to other people's actions
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05:14
the same way they respond to our own.
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ํƒ€์ธ์˜ ํ–‰๋™์— ๋ฐ˜์‘ํ•˜๋Š” ๋‰ด๋Ÿฐ์„ ์ฐพ์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:16
Empathy emerges early in life,
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๊ณต๊ฐ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์€ ์–ด๋ฆด ๋•Œ ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋“ฑ์žฅํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์–ด์ฉŒ๋ฉด ํ•œ์‚ด ์ด์ „๋ถ€ํ„ฐ์š”.
05:18
perhaps before the age of one.
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05:20
Books on empathy have become bestsellers,
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๊ณต๊ฐ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ฑ…๋“ค์€ ๋ฒ ์ŠคํŠธ์…€๋Ÿฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:21
like "The Empathic Civilization"
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"๊ณต๊ฐ์˜ ๋ฌธ๋ช…"์ด๋‚˜
05:23
and "The Age of Empathy."
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"๊ณต๊ฐ์˜ ์‹œ๋Œ€" ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ ์˜ˆ์ฃ .
05:26
RNG: I'm all for empathy. I mean, who isn't?
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์ €๋„ ๊ณต๊ฐ์„ ๊ตณ๊ฒŒ ๋ฏฟ์–ด์š”. ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
05:28
But all on its own, it's a feeble instrument
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ณต๊ฐ ๊ทธ ์ž์ฒด๋Š” ๋„๋•์  ์„ฑ์žฅ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ๋Š”
05:32
for making moral progress.
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ํ—ˆ์•ฝํ•œ ๋„๊ตฌ์ผ ๋ฟ์ด์—์š”.
05:34
For one thing, it's innately biased
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ํ•œ ์˜ˆ๋กœ ๊ณต๊ฐ์€ ์„ ์ฒœ์ ์œผ๋กœ
05:36
toward blood relations, babies
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๊ฐ™์€ ํ•์ค„, ์•„๊ธฐ๋“ค, ๋”ฐ๋œปํ•˜๊ณ  ๋ณด์†ก๋ณด์†กํ•œ ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
05:38
and warm, fuzzy animals.
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ํŽธ์ค‘๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:40
As far as empathy is concerned,
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๊ณต๊ฐ๋งŒ ๋†“๊ณ  ๋ณธ๋‹ค๋ฉด
05:42
ugly outsiders can go to hell.
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๋ชป์ƒ๊ธด ๊ธฐํƒ€์˜ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ์ง€์˜ฅ์—๋‚˜ ๊ฐ€์•ผ์ฃ .
05:46
And even our best attempts to work up sympathy
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์™€ ๊ด€๊ณ„์—†๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
05:49
for those who are unconnected with us
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๊ณต๊ฐ์„ ํ‚ค์šฐ๋ ค๋Š” ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ์€ ์‹œ๋„๋“ค๋„
05:51
fall miserably short, a sad truth about human nature
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์‹คํŒจ๋กœ ๋Œ์•„๊ฐ€๊ธฐ ์ผ์‘ค์ธ๋ฐ, ์ด๋Š” ์•„๋‹ด ์Šค๋ฏธ์Šค๊ฐ€ ์ง€์ ํ•œ
05:56
that was pointed out by Adam Smith.
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์ธ๊ฐ„ ๋ณธ๋Šฅ์˜ ์Šฌํ”ˆ ํ˜„์‹ค์ด์ฃ .
05:58
Adam Smith: Let us suppose that the great empire
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์•„๋‹ด ์Šค๋ฏธ์Šค: ์œ„๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ค‘ํ™”์ œ๊ตญ์ด ๊ฐ‘์ž๊ธฐ ์ง€์ง„์— ์˜ํ•ด ๋ฉธ๋งํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์ •ํ•ด๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
06:00
of China was suddenly swallowed up by an earthquake,
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06:02
and let us consider how a man of humanity in Europe
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๋˜ํ•œ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์˜ ํ•œ ๋ฐ•์• ์ฃผ์˜์ž๊ฐ€ ์ด ๋”์ฐํ•œ ์žฌ๋‚œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ ๋“ฃ๊ณ 
06:05
would react on receiving intelligence
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06:07
of this dreadful calamity.
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ฐ˜์‘์„ ๋ณด์ผ์ง€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด ๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
06:09
He would, I imagine, first of all express very strongly
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์ถ”์ธก์ปจ๋ฐ, ๊ทธ๋Š” ๋จผ์ € ๊ทธ ๋ถˆ์Œํ•œ ์ด๋“ค์˜ ๋ถˆํ–‰์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
06:11
his sorrow for the misfortune of that unhappy people.
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์•„์ฃผ ๊ฐ•ํ•œ ์• ๋„๋ฅผ ํ‘œํ• ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:14
He would make many melancholy reflections
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๊ทธ๋Š” ์ธ์ƒ์˜ ๋ถˆํ™•์‹ค์„ฑ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋งŽ์€ ์Šฌํ””์„ ํ‘œํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ
06:16
upon the precariousness of human life,
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06:18
and when all these humane sentiments
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์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ์ธ๋„์ ์ธ ๊ฐ์ •๋“ค์ด ์ผ๋‹จ ์ ์ ˆํžˆ ํ‘œํ˜„๋œ ํ›„
06:20
had been once fairly expressed,
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06:22
he would pursue his business or his pleasure
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๊ทธ๋Š” ๋งˆ์น˜ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์ด ์—†์—ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
06:24
with the same ease and tranquility
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์•ˆ๋ฝํ•˜๊ณ  ํ‰์˜จํžˆ ๋ณธ์ธ์˜ ์ผ๊ณผ ์ฆ๊ฑฐ์›€์„ ๊ณ„์†ํ•ด ๋‚˜๊ฐˆ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:26
as if no such accident had happened.
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06:28
If he was to lose his little finger tomorrow,
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๋งŒ์ผ ๋‚ด์ผ ์ƒˆ๋ผ์†๊ฐ€๋ฝ์„ ์žƒ์„ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์•Œ๋ฉด,
06:31
he would not sleep tonight,
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๊ทธ๋Š” ์˜ค๋Š˜ ์ž ์„ ๋ชป ์ด๋ฃฐ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:32
but provided he never saw them,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ๊ทธ๊ฐ€ ์ด ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
06:34
he would snore with the most profound security
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1์–ต๋ช… ํ˜•์ œ๋“ค์„ ์žƒ์—ˆ์Œ์—๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ตฌํ•˜๊ณ  ์•„์ฃผ ํŽธ์•ˆํžˆ ์ž ๋“ค ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:36
over the ruin of a hundred million of his brethren.
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06:39
SP: But if empathy wasn't enough to make us more humane,
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋งŒ์•ฝ ๊ณต๊ฐ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ธ๊ฐ„์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“ค์ˆ˜ ์—†๋‹ค๋ฉด
06:42
what else was there?
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๋ฌด์—‡์ด ๋” ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
06:44
RNG: Well, you didn't mention what might be
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด ์ธ๊ฐ„ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํšจ๊ณผ์ ์ธ ์ข‹์€ ์ธก๋ฉด ์ค‘
06:46
one of our most effective better angels: reason.
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ํ•œ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ผ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์–ด์š”. ๋ฐ”๋กœ ์ด์„ฑ์ด์ง€์š”.
06:50
Reason has muscle.
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์ด์„ฑ์€ ํž˜์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:53
It's reason that provides the push to widen
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๊ณต๊ฐ์˜ ๋ฒ”์œ„๋ฅผ ๋„“ํžˆ๋Š” ํž˜์„ ์ œ๊ณตํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:56
that circle of empathy.
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06:58
Every one of the humanitarian developments
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ธ๋„์ ์ธ ๋ฐœ์ „๋“ค์€
07:01
that you mentioned originated with thinkers
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์™œ ํŠน์ •ํ•œ ๊ด€์Šต๋“ค์ด ์˜นํ˜ธํ•  ์—ฌ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š”์ง€๋ฅผ
07:04
who gave reasons for why some practice
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๋…ผ๋ฆฌ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋’ท๋ฐ›์นจํ•œ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€๋“ค๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋น„๋กฏ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:07
was indefensible.
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07:09
They demonstrated that the way people treated
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ํŠน์ • ๋ถ€๋ฅ˜๋ฅผ ๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด
07:11
some particular group of others
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07:13
was logically inconsistent
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๋ณธ์ธ๋“ค์ด ๋Œ€์šฐ๋ฐ›๊ธธ ์›ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹๊ณผ
07:15
with the way they insisted on being treated themselves.
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๋…ผ๋ฆฌ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ถˆ์ผ์น˜ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ž…์ฆํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
07:18
SP: Are you saying that reason
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด์„ฑ์ด ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
07:19
can actually change people's minds?
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07:22
Don't people just stick with whatever conviction
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ์ € ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ์ดํ•ด๊ด€๊ณ„์™€ ์ผ์น˜ํ•˜๋Š” ์‹ ๋…์„ ๊ณ ์ˆ˜ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
07:24
serves their interests
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07:25
or conforms to the culture that they grew up in?
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์ž์‹ ์ด ์ž๋ผ์˜จ ๋ฌธํ™”์— ์ˆœ์‘ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ์‚ด์ง€ ์•Š๋‚˜์š”?
07:28
RNG: Here's a fascinating fact about us:
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๊ธฐ๋ง‰ํžŒ ์‚ฌ์‹ค ํ•˜๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
07:31
Contradictions bother us,
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๋ชจ์ˆœ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋ถˆํŽธ์ผ€ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:33
at least when we're forced to confront them,
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์ตœ์†Œํ•œ ์ด๋ฅผ ํ”ผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์„ ๋• ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
07:35
which is just another way of saying
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ง๋กœ ํ•˜๋ฉด
07:37
that we are susceptible to reason.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด์„ฑ์— ์ทจ์•ฝํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:40
And if you look at the history of moral progress,
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๋„๋•์  ์ง„๋ณด์˜ ์—ญ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋ฉด
07:43
you can trace a direct pathway from reasoned arguments
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๋…ผ์Ÿ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‹ค์ œ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹์—์˜ ๋ณ€ํ™”๋กœ์˜
07:46
to changes in the way that we actually feel.
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์ง์ ‘ ๊ฒฝ๋กœ๋ฅผ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:50
Time and again, a thinker would lay out an argument
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์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ๋ฐ˜๋ณตํ•ด์„œ
07:53
as to why some practice was indefensible,
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์™œ ํŠน์ • ๊ด€์Šต๋“ค์€ ๊ธฐ์กด์˜ ๊ฐ€์น˜์— ๋ฐ˜ํ•ด ์˜นํ˜ธ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
07:57
irrational, inconsistent with values already held.
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๋น„์ด์„ฑ์ ์ด๋ฉฐ, ๋ชจ์ˆœ๋˜๋Š”์ง€์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์„ ํŽผ์น  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:02
Their essay would go viral,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๋…ผ๋ฌธ์€ ์ž…์†Œ๋ฌธ์ด ๋‚˜์„œ
08:04
get translated into many languages,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์–ธ์–ด๋กœ ๋ฒˆ์—ญ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ
08:06
get debated at pubs and coffee houses and salons,
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์ˆ ์ง‘, ์นดํŽ˜, ๋ฏธ์šฉ์‹ค,
08:09
and at dinner parties,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋…ํŒŒํ‹ฐ์—์„œ ๊ฑฐ๋ก ๋˜์–ด
08:11
and influence leaders, legislators,
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์ง€๋„์ž๋“ค, ์ž…๋ฒ•์ž๋“ค๊ณผ ์—ฌ๋ก ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ผ์น  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:15
popular opinion.
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08:16
Eventually their conclusions get absorbed
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๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ด๊ณณ์— ์ด๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ํ•œ
08:20
into the common sense of decency,
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08:22
erasing the tracks of the original argument
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๊ทผ๋ณธ์ ์ธ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ํ”์ ์„ ์ง€์šฐ๋ฉด์„œ ์ƒ์‹ ์†์œผ๋กœ ์Šค๋ฉฐ๋“ค ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:25
that had gotten us there.
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08:27
Few of us today feel any need to put forth
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์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ , ๋ฌด์—‡ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ๋…ธ์˜ˆ ์ œ๋„๋‚˜
08:29
a rigorous philosophical argument
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๊ณต๊ฐœ ๊ต์ˆ˜ํ˜•, ์•„๋™ํ•™๋Œ€๊ฐ€ ์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
08:31
as to why slavery is wrong
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์—„๊ฒฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์ฒ ํ•™์ ์ธ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด
08:34
or public hangings or beating children.
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ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์€ ๊ฑฐ์˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:37
By now, these things just feel wrong.
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์ด์ œ๋Š” ๊ทธ์ € ๊ทธ๋ฆ‡๋˜๊ฒŒ ๋Š๊ปด์งˆ๋ฟ์ด์ฃ .
08:40
But just those arguments had to be made,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์ฃผ์žฅ์ด ์ด๋ฃจ์–ด์กŒ์–ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ–ˆ๊ณ 
08:43
and they were, in centuries past.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋ช‡๋ฐฑ๋…„ ์ „์— ๋ฐœํ‘œ๋˜์—ˆ์ฃ .
08:46
SP: Are you saying that people needed
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด๋‹จ์ž๋“ค์„ ํ™”ํ˜•์— ์ฒ˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
08:48
a step-by-step argument to grasp
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08:50
why something might be a wee bit wrong
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์™œ ๊ทธ๋ฆ‡๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€๋ฅผ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋ณ„ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋‚˜์š”?
08:52
with burning heretics at the stake?
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08:53
RNG: Oh, they did. Here's the French theologian
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ . ํ”„๋ž‘์Šค์˜ ์‹ ํ•™์ž ์„ธ๋ฐ”์Šค์ฐฌ ์นด์Šคํ…”๋ฆฌ์˜ค๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์ง€์š”.
08:56
Sebastian Castellio making the case.
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08:59
Sebastian Castellio: Calvin says that he's certain,
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์„ธ๋ฐ”์Šค์ฐฌ ์นด์Šคํ…”๋ฆฌ์˜ค: ์นผ๋ฑ…์ด๋‚˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ข…ํŒŒ๋“ค ๋ชจ๋‘ ํ™•์‹ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:01
and other sects say that they are.
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09:03
Who shall be judge?
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๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ์‹ฌํŒ๊ด€์ด ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
09:04
If the matter is certain, to whom is it so? To Calvin?
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๊ทธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ํ™•์‹คํ•˜๋‹ค๋ฉด, ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ์—๊ฒŒ ํ•ด๋‹น๋˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด์ฃ ? ์นผ๋ฑ…์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
09:07
But then, why does he write so many books about manifest truth?
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด, ๊ทธ ๋งŽ์€ ์˜ˆ์ •์„ค ์ฑ…์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด์ฃ ?
09:10
In view of the uncertainty, we must define heretics
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๋ถˆํ™•์‹ค์„ฑ์„ ๊ณ ๋ คํ•˜์—ฌ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด๋‹จ์ž๋ฅผ
09:12
simply as one with whom we disagree.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋™์˜ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š”์ž๋กœ ์ •์˜ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:14
And if then we are going to kill heretics,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋‹จ์ž๋“ค์„ ์ฃฝ์ด๋ ค ํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
09:16
the logical outcome will be a war of extermination,
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๋…ผ๋ฆฌ์  ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์€ ์‚ด์ƒ ์ „์Ÿ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:18
since each is sure of himself.
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๊ฐ์ž๊ฐ€ ์ž์‹ ์„ ํ™•์‹ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
09:20
SP: Or with hideous punishments
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๊ฑฐ์—ดํ˜•๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์—๋„ ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋ณ„ ๋…ผ์ฆ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ–ˆ๋‚˜์š”?
09:22
like breaking on the wheel?
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09:23
RNG: The prohibition in our constitution
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ํ—Œ๋ฒ•์—์„œ ์ž”ํ˜นํ•˜๊ณ  ์—ฝ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์„ ๊ธˆ์ง€ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€
09:26
of cruel and unusual punishments
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09:28
was a response to a pamphlet circulated in 1764
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1764๋…„์— ์œ ํฌ๋œ ์ดํƒˆ๋ฆฌ์•„ ๋ฒ•ํ•™์ž ์ฒด์‚ฌ๋ ˆ ๋ฒ ์นด๋ฆฌ์•„์˜
09:32
by the Italian jurist Cesare Beccaria.
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์†Œ์ฑ…์ž์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋ฐ˜์‘์ด์—ˆ์ง€์š”.
09:35
Cesare Beccaria: As punishments become more cruel,
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์ฒด์‚ฌ๋ ˆ ๋ฒ ์นด๋ฆฌ์•„: ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์ด ๋”์šฑ ์ž”ํ˜นํ•ด์ง€๋ฉด์„œ
09:37
the minds of men, which like fluids
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์–ธ์ œ๋‚˜ ์ฃผ๋ณ€ ์‚ฌ๋ฌผ์˜ ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ์ ์‘ํ•˜๋Š”
09:39
always adjust to the level of the objects
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์•ก์ฒด์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ์ธ๊ฐ„์˜ ๋งˆ์Œ์€
09:41
that surround them, become hardened,
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๋”์šฑ ๋‹จ๋‹จํ•ด์ง€๊ณ 
09:43
and after a hundred years of cruel punishments,
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์ž”ํ˜นํ•œ ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์ด ๋ช‡๋ฐฑ๋…„๋™์•ˆ ๊ณ„์† ๋œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
09:46
breaking on the wheel causes no more fear
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๊ฑฐ์—ดํ˜•์€ ๊ณผ๊ฑฐ์˜ ๊ฐ์˜ฅ์‚ด์ด๋งŒํผ๋„
09:48
than imprisonment previously did.
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ๋‘๋ ค์›€์„ ์ž์•„๋‚ด์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:50
For a punishment to achieve its objective,
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๋ชฉ์  ๋‹ฌ์„ฑ์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š”,
09:53
it is only necessary that the harm that it inflicts
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ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์˜ ๊ฐ•๋„๊ฐ€ ๋ฒ”์ฃ„๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์•ผ๊ธฐ๋œ ์ด๋“์„ ์ดˆ๊ณผํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:55
outweighs the benefit that derives from the crime,
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09:58
and into this calculation ought to be factored
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์ด ๊ณ„์‚ฐ์—๋Š”
10:00
the certainty of punishment
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ํ˜•๋ฒŒ์˜ ํ™•์‹ค์„ฑ๊ณผ ๋ฒ”ํ–‰์ด ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•  ์„ ์˜ ๋ฐ•ํƒˆ์ด
10:02
and the loss of the good
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10:03
that the commission of the crime will produce.
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๊ณ ๋ ค๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:06
Everything beyond this is superfluous,
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์ด ์„ ์„ ๋„˜์–ด์„œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ถˆํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋ฉฐ ๋„˜๋Š”๋‹ค๋ฉด ๋…์žฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:08
and therefore tyrannical.
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10:10
SP: But surely antiwar movements depended
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฐ˜์ „ ์šด๋™์€
10:12
on mass demonstrations
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๋Œ€๊ทœ๋ชจ ์‹œ์œ„์™€ ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ๊ธฐ์–ต๋˜๋Š” ํฌํฌ์†ก ๊ฐ€์‚ฌ,
10:13
and catchy tunes by folk singers
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10:16
and wrenching photographs of the human costs of war.
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์ „์Ÿ์˜ ์ธ๋ช…ํ”ผํ•ด๋ฅผ ๋‹ด์€ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ์‚ฌ์ง„๋“ค์— ์˜์กดํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:18
RNG: No doubt, but modern anti-war movements
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ . ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ํ˜„๋Œ€์˜ ๋ฐ˜์ „์šด๋™์€
10:22
reach back to a long chain of thinkers
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์™œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ „์Ÿ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๊ฐ์ •์„ ๋™์›ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ฐ€์— ๊ด€ํ•ด
10:24
who had argued as to why we ought to mobilize
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์ฃผ์žฅํ–ˆ๋˜ ์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€๋“ค๊นŒ์ง€
10:27
our emotions against war,
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๊ฑฐ์Šฌ๋Ÿฌ ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:29
such as the father of modernity, Erasmus.
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๊ทผ๋Œ€์˜ ์•„๋ฒ„์ง€๋ผ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌ์šฐ๋Š” ์—๋ผ์Šค๋ฌด์Šค๋„ ๊ทธ ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜์ฃ .
10:32
Erasmus: The advantages derived from peace
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์—๋ผ์Šค๋ฌด์Šค: ํ‰ํ™”๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์•ผ๊ธฐ๋œ ์ด๋“์€
10:34
diffuse themselves far and wide,
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๋„“๊ณ  ๋ฉ€๋ฆฌ, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ช…์—๊ฒŒ ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ผ์นฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:36
and reach great numbers,
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10:38
while in war, if anything turns out happily,
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๋ฐ˜๋ฉด ์ „์Ÿ์—์„œ ์–ป๋Š” ์ด๋“์€ ์˜ค์ง ์†Œ์ˆ˜์—๊ฒŒ ์ด๋ฐ”์ง€ํ•  ๋ฟ์ด๋ฉฐ,
10:40
the advantage redounds only to a few,
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10:42
and those unworthy of reaping it.
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์ˆ˜ํ™•ํ•  ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
10:44
One man's safety is owing to the destruction of another.
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๋‚˜์˜ ์•ˆ์ „์€ ๋‚จ์˜ ํŒŒ๋ฉธ์„ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•˜๊ณ 
10:47
One man's prize is derived from the plunder of another.
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๋‚˜์˜ ํฌ์ƒ์€ ๊ณง ๋‚จ์˜ ๊ฒƒ์˜ ๊ฐ•ํƒˆ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:50
The cause of rejoicings made by one side
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ํ•œ์ชฝ์— ์˜ํ•ด ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์ง„ ๊ธฐ์จ์˜ ์›์ธ์ด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ชฝ์˜ ์Šฌํ””์˜ ์›์ธ์ด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:52
is to the other a cause of mourning.
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10:54
Whatever is unfortunate in war,
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์ „์Ÿ์†์˜ ๋ถˆํ–‰์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๋“ ์ง€ ์ฒ˜์ฐธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ถˆํ–‰ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
10:56
is severely so indeed,
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10:57
and whatever, on the contrary,
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ, ํ–‰์šด์ด๋ผ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ์ผ๋“ค์€
10:59
is called good fortune,
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11:00
is a savage and a cruel good fortune,
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ํฌ์•…ํ•˜๋ฉฐ ์ž”ํ˜นํ•œ ํ–‰์šด,
11:02
an ungenerous happiness deriving its existence from another's woe.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ด์˜ ์Šฌํ””์—์„œ ์˜ค๋Š” ์ธ์ƒ‰ํ•œ ํ–‰๋ณต์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:05
SP: But everyone knows that the movement
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋…ธ์˜ˆ์ œ๋„ ํ์ง€ ์šด๋™์ด
11:07
to abolish slavery depended on faith and emotion.
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์‹ ์•™๊ณผ ๊ฐ์ •์— ์˜์กดํ–ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ๋‚˜ ๋‹ค ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:11
It was a movement spearheaded by the Quakers,
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์ด๋Š” ํ€˜์ด์ปค ๊ต๋„๋“ค์ด ์ฃผ๋„ํ•œ ์šด๋™์ด๋ฉฐ,
11:13
and it only became popular when Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel
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ํ—ค๋ฆฌ์—ฃ ๋น„์ฒ˜ ์Šคํ† ์šฐ์˜ ์†Œ์„ค "ํ†ฐ ์•„์ €์”จ์˜ ์˜ค๋‘๋ง‰"์ด
11:16
"Uncle Tom's Cabin" became a bestseller.
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๋ฒ ์ŠคํŠธ์…€๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๊ณ  ๋‚˜์„œ์•ผ ์œ ๋ช…ํ•ด์ง€๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์ง€์š”.
11:18
RNG: But the ball got rolling a century before.
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ ์‹œ์ž‘์€ ํ•œ ์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ „์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:21
John Locke bucked the tide of millennia
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์กด ๋กœํฌ๋Š” ๋…ธ์˜ˆ์ œ๋„๊ฐ€
11:25
that had regarded the practice as perfectly natural.
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๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜ ๋‹น์—ฐํ•˜๋˜ ์‹œ๊ธฐ์— ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์— ์ €ํ•ญํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:28
He argued that it was inconsistent
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๊ทธ๋Š” ์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ํ•ฉ๋ฆฌ์  ์ •๋ถ€์˜ ์›์น™๋“ค์— ๋ชจ์ˆœ๋œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ฃผ์žฅํ–ˆ์ฃ .
11:31
with the principles of rational government.
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11:32
John Locke: Freedom of men under government
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์กด ๋กœํฌ: ๊ตญ๊ฐ€ ์ฒด์ œ ํ•˜์˜ ์ธ๊ฐ„์˜ ์ž์œ ๋ž€
11:34
is to have a standing rule to live by
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌํšŒ์˜ ๊ตฌ์„ฑ์›๋“ค์ด ๊ณตํ†ต์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋”ฐ๋ผ์•ผ ํ• 
11:36
common to everyone of that society
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๊ทœ๋ฒ”์„ ๊ฐ–๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ
11:38
and made by the legislative power erected in it,
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๊ทธ ๊ทœ๋ฒ”์€ ๊ตญ๋ฏผ์ด ์„ ์ถœํ•œ ์ž…์•ˆ์ž๋“ค์— ์˜ํ•ด ์ œ์ •๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:41
a liberty to follow my own will in all things
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๋˜ํ•œ ๋ฒ•์ด ๊ทœ์ •ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์— ํ•œํ•ด ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์—์„œ ๋ณธ์ธ์˜ ์˜์ง€๋ฅผ ๋”ฐ๋ฅด๊ณ 
11:43
where that rule prescribes not,
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11:45
not to be subject to the inconstant,
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๋ณ€๋•์Šค๋Ÿฝ๊ณ , ๋ถˆํ™•์‹คํ•˜๊ณ , ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์œผ๋ฉฐ,
11:47
uncertain, unknown, arbitrary will of another man,
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์ž์˜์ ์ธ ๋‚จ์˜ ์˜์ง€์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฐ›์ง€ ์•Š์•„์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:51
as freedom of nature is to be under no other restraint
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์ž์—ฐ์˜ ์ž์œ ๋Š” ์ž์—ฐ์˜ ๋ฒ•์น™์„ ์ œ์™ธํ•˜๋ฉด
11:53
but the law of nature.
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์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ์˜ ๊ตฌ์†์•„๋ž˜๋„ ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
11:55
SP: Those words sound familiar.
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋ญ”๊ฐ€ ์ต์ˆ™ํ•œ ๋ง๋“ค์ด๋„ค์š”.
11:57
Where have I read them before? Ah, yes.
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์–ด๋””์„œ ์ฝ์—ˆ๋”๋ผ? ์•„ ๋งž์•„!
12:00
Mary Astell: If absolute sovereignty be not necessary
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๋ฉ”๋ฆฌ ์•„์Šคํ…”: ๋งŒ์ผ ์ ˆ๋Œ€ ์ฃผ๊ถŒ์ด ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—
12:02
in a state, how comes it to be so in a family?
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ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์ธ ์ฒด์ œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๋ฉด, ์™œ ๊ฐ€์ •์—์„  ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
12:05
Or if in a family, why not in a state?
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๋˜ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ •์— ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด ์™œ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ๋Š” ์•„๋‹๊นŒ์š”?
12:08
Since no reason can be alleged for the one
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์ด์„ฑ์€ ํƒ€์ธ์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ๊ฐ•๊ฒฝํ•œ ๋…ผ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹Œ ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ๋Š” ๋Œ€์ฒด๋  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๊ธฐ์—
12:10
that will not hold more strongly for the other,
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12:12
if all men are born free,
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์ „ ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ์ž์œ ์ธ์œผ๋กœ ํƒœ์–ด๋‚œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
12:13
how is it that all women are born slaves,
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์™œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์—ฌ์ž๋“ค์€
12:16
as they must be if being subjected
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๋ณ€๋•์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šฐ๋ฉฐ, ๋ถˆํ™•์‹คํ•˜๊ณ ,
12:18
to the inconstant, uncertain,
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์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์œผ๋ฉฐ, ์ œ๋ฉ‹๋Œ€๋กœ์ธ ํƒ€์ธ์˜ ์˜์ง€์˜ ๋Œ€์ƒ์ด ๋˜๋Š”
12:20
unknown, arbitrary will of men
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12:23
be the perfect condition of slavery?
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๋…ธ์˜ˆ์ œ๋„์˜ ์™„๋ฒฝํ•œ ์กฐ๊ฑด์ด ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
12:26
RNG: That sort of co-option
297
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์˜์ž…์€ ์ด์„ฑ์˜ ์ง๋ฌด๋ถ„์„ํ‘œ์— ์žˆ์ฃ .
12:28
is all in the job description of reason.
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12:30
One movement for the expansion of rights
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๊ถŒ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ํ™•๋Œ€ํ‚ค ์œ„ํ•œ ํ•œ ๊ฐœ์˜ ์›€์ง์ž„์ด
12:32
inspires another because the logic is the same,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์šด๋™๋“ค์„ ๋ฐœํ™”์‹œํ‚ค๋Š”๋ฐ, ์ด๋Š” ๊ฐ™์€ ๋…ผ๋ฆฌ ์„ ์ƒ์— ์žˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:36
and once that's hammered home,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ผ๋‹จ ํ•˜๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ์„ฑ๊ณตํ•˜๋ฉด,
12:38
it becomes increasingly uncomfortable
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์˜ ๋ชจ์ˆœ์€ ๋ฌด์‹œํ•˜๊ธฐ ์–ด๋ ค์›Œ์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:41
to ignore the inconsistency.
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12:43
In the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement
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1960๋…„๋Œ€ ์‹œ๋ฏผ ์ธ๊ถŒ ์šด๋™์€
12:46
inspired the movements for women's rights,
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์—ฌ์„ฑ ์ธ๊ถŒ, ์•„๋™ ์ธ๊ถŒ, ๋™์ƒ์• ์ž ์ธ๊ถŒ,
12:47
children's rights, gay rights and even animal rights.
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด๋Š” ๋™๋ฌผ๋ณดํ˜ธ ์šด๋™๊นŒ์ง€ ์ด‰๋ฐœ์‹œ์ผฐ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:51
But fully two centuries before,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์ •ํ™•ํžˆ ๋‘์„ธ๊ธฐ ์ „์—๋„
12:54
the Enlightenment thinker Jeremy Bentham
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๊ณ„๋ชฝ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€ ์ œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฏธ ๋ฒค๋‹ด์€
12:56
had exposed the indefensibility
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๋™๋ฌผ ํ•™๋Œ€์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ด€๋ก€์  ๊ด€์Šต๋“ค์ด
12:58
of customary practices such as
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์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฏ€๋กœ ๋ณ€๋ช…์˜ ์—ฌ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์—†๋‹ค๋Š” ์ ์„ ๋ฐํ˜”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:01
the cruelty to animals.
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13:03
Jeremy Bentham: The question is not, can they reason,
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์ œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฏธ ๋ฒค๋‹ด: ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์ด์„ฑ์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ฐ€,
13:05
nor can they talk, but can they suffer?
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๋ง์„ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹Œ ๊ณ ํ†ต์„ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š”๊ฐ€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:09
RNG: And the persecution of homosexuals.
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๋™์„ฑ์• ์ž์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋ฐ•ํ•ด๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:12
JB: As to any primary mischief,
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์ œ๋Ÿฌ๋ฏธ ๋ฒค๋‹ด: ๋™์„ฑ์• ์ž์˜ ๊ด€๊ณ„๋Š”
13:14
it's evident that it produces no pain in anyone.
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๋ถ„๋ช…ํžˆ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ์—๊ฒŒ๋„ ๊ณ ํ†ต์„ ์ฃผ์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:17
On the contrary, it produces pleasure.
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๋‹ค๋งŒ, ์ด๋Š” ์พŒ๋ฝ์„ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•˜์ฃ .
13:19
The partners are both willing.
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์–‘์ธก ๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ด€๊ณ„๋ฅผ ์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:21
If either of them be unwilling,
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ๋‘˜ ์ค‘ ํ•œ๋ช…์ด๋ผ๋„ ๊บผ๋ฆฐ๋‹ค๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฒ”์ฃ„์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
13:22
the act is an offense,
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13:23
totally different in its nature of effects.
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์™„์ „ํžˆ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:26
It's a personal injury. It's a kind of rape.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์‹ ์ฒด์  ์ƒํ•ด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ•๊ฐ„์ด์ฃ .
13:28
As to the any danger exclusive of pain,
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๊ณ ํ†ต์„ ์ œ์™ธํ•œ ์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌํ•œ ์œ„ํ—˜์ด ๋งŒ์ผ ์กด์žฌํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด
13:31
the danger, if any, much consist
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13:32
in the tendency of the example.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์‚ฌ๋ก€๋“ค์˜ ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ๊ณผ ์ผ์น˜ํ•˜์ง€์š”.
13:34
But what is the tendency of this example?
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด ์‚ฌ๋ก€๋Š” ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์„ ๊ฐ–์ง€์š”?
13:37
To dispose others to engage in the same practices.
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ํƒ€์ธ์„ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ด€ํ–‰์— ์ฐธ์—ฌํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋ฐฉ์น˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
13:39
But this practice produces not pain of any kind
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ด ๊ด€ํ–‰์€ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ์—๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ณ ํ†ต๋„ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:42
to anyone.
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13:44
SP: Still, in every case, it took at least a century
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด
13:46
for the arguments of these great thinkers
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์œ„๋Œ€ํ•œ ์‚ฌ์ƒ๊ฐ€๋“ค์˜ ์ฃผ์žฅ์ด
13:48
to trickle down and infiltrate the population as a whole.
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์ธ๋ฅ˜ ์ „์ฒด์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ์ฃผ๋Š”๋ฐ ์ ์–ด๋„ ๋ฐฑ๋…„์ด ๊ฑธ๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:52
It kind of makes you wonder about our own time.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์‹œ๋Œ€๋ฅผ ๋Œ์•„๋ณด๊ฒŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:54
Are there practices that we engage in
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ด€์—ฌํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ ์ค‘์—
13:56
where the arguments against them are there for all to see
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ด๋“ค์ด ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์ž„์—๋„ ๋ถˆ๊ตฌํ•˜๊ณ 
13:59
but nonetheless we persist in them?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ณ„์† ๋ฐ€๊ณ  ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋Š” ์ผ์ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
14:01
RNG: When our great grandchildren look back at us,
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ฆ์†์ž๋“ค์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋˜๋Œ์•„ ๋ณผ ๋•Œ,
14:04
will they be as appalled by some of our practices
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๋…ธ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ์†Œ์œ ํ•˜๊ณ , ์ด๋‹จ์ž๋“ค์„ ํ™”ํ˜•ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
14:07
as we are by our slave-owning, heretic-burning,
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์•„๋‚ด๋ฅผ ๋•Œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ , ๋™์„ฑ์• ์ž๋ฅผ ์†Œ์™ธ์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์กฐ์ƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์งˆ๊ฒํ•˜๋“ฏ
14:11
wife-beating, gay-bashing ancestors?
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๊ทธ๋“ค๋„ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๊ด€ํ–‰๋“ค์„ ๋ณด๋ฉฐ ์งˆ๊ฒํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
14:14
SP: I'm sure everyone here could think of an example.
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ํ•œ๊ฐœ์”ฉ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด ๋ณผ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
14:17
RNG: I opt for the mistreatment of animals
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์ €๋Š” ๊ณต์žฅ ์†Œ์œ  ๋†์žฅ๋“ค์˜ ๋™๋ฌผ ํ•™๋Œ€๋กœ ํ•˜๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:19
in factory farms.
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14:21
SP: The imprisonment of nonviolent drug offenders
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๋น„ํญ๋ ฅ ๋งˆ์•ฝ ์‚ฌ๋ฒ”์˜ ๊ฐ๊ธˆ๊ณผ
14:23
and the toleration of rape in our nation's prisons.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋‚˜๋ผ ๊ฐ์˜ฅ์—์„œ์˜ ๊ฐ•๊ฐ„์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ด€์šฉ์ด์š”.
14:25
RNG: Scrimping on donations to life-saving charities
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ๋„์ƒ๊ตญ์˜์‚ฌ๋žŒ ๋ชฉ์ˆจ ์‚ด๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ž์„ ๋‹จ์ฒด์—์˜ ๊ธฐ๋ถ€์— ์ธ์ƒ‰ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด์š”.
14:28
in the developing world.
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14:30
SP: The possession of nuclear weapons.
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ํ•ต๋ฌด๊ธฐ์˜ ๋ณด์œ ์š”.
14:32
RNG: The appeal to religion to justify
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ํ”ผ์ž„ ๊ธˆ์ง€์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ์ •๋‹นํ™” ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ์ผ์„
14:35
the otherwise unjustifiable,
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์ •๋‹นํ™” ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ์ข…๊ต์— ์˜์ง€ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์š”.
14:36
such as the ban on contraception.
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14:39
SP: What about religious faith in general?
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์ธ ์ข…๊ต์  ์‹ ๋…์€์š”?
14:41
RNG: Eh, I'm not holding my breath.
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ์•„, ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„  ๊ธฐ๋Œ€ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•„์š”.
14:43
SP: Still, I have become convinced
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์ €๋Š” ์ด์„ฑ์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ๋ˆ„๋ ค์™”๋˜
14:45
that reason is a better angel
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14:46
that deserves the greatest credit
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๋„๋•์  ์ง„๋ณด์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๊ณต์„ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•  ์ž๊ฒฉ์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ
14:48
for the moral progress our species has enjoyed
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14:51
and that holds out the greatest hope
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๋ฏธ๋ž˜์˜ ์ง€์†์  ๋„๋•์  ์ง„๋ณด๋ผ๋Š” ์œ„๋Œ€ํ•œ ํฌ๋ง์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๋Š”
14:53
for continuing moral progress in the future.
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๋” ๋‚˜์€ ์ธก๋ฉด์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ํ™•์‹ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:56
RNG: And if, our friends,
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๋ ˆ๋ฒ ์นด: ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์นœ๊ตฌ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„,
14:58
you detect a flaw in this argument,
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๋งŒ์ผ ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ๋ณธ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ๊ฒฐํ•จ์„ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•˜์‹ ๋‹ค๋ฉด
15:00
just remember you'll be depending on reason
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ง€์ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ์ด์„ฑ์— ๊ทผ๊ฑฐํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹ ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„
15:04
to point it out.
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๊ธฐ์–ตํ•˜์‹œ๊ธฐ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:05
Thank you. SP: Thank you.
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๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ: ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
15:08
(Applause)
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์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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