Steven Pinker and Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: The long reach of reason

翻译人员: Chunda Zeng 校对人员: Li Huayang

["Rebecca Newberger Goldstein"]

丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦

["Steven Pinker"]

史迪芬·平克

["The Long Reach of Reason"]

"理智的边际"

Cabbie: Twenty-two dollars. Steven Pinker: Okay.

的哥：22块。 史迪芬·平克：好的。

Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: Reason appears to have fallen on hard times:

丽贝卡· 纽伯格· 戈德斯坦： 理性已经遇到了多重障碍：

Popular culture plumbs new depths of dumbth

流行文化朝着愚昧的新深度去探索

and political discourse has become a race

而政治言论已成为

to the bottom.

一场走下坡路的比赛。

We're living in an era of scientific creationism,

我们生活在一个科学创世说的时代，

9/11 conspiracy theories, psychic hotlines,

9/11密谋论，超自然的热线电话，

and a resurgence of religious fundamentalism.

以及信仰原教旨主义的复苏 。

People who think too well

那些想法太丰富的人

are often accused of elitism,

往往都被指责为精英主义者，

and even in the academy,

即使在学术界，

there are attacks on logocentrism,

标志中心主义也遭受攻击，

the crime of letting logic dominate our thinking.

逻辑思维被定义为犯罪。

SP: But is this necessarily a bad thing?

史迪芬·平克：但这个一定就是件坏事吗？

Perhaps reason is overrated.

或许理性有点被高估了。

Many pundits have argued that a good heart

许多权威专家都说一颗善良的心

and steadfast moral clarity

和一个坚定的道德准则

are superior to triangulations of overeducated policy wonks,

胜过去顺从那些受太多教育的政策书呆子，

like the best and brightest and that dragged us

就好像那些将我们带入了越南的沼泽地

into the quagmire of Vietnam.

的所谓的最优秀和最聪明的人。

And wasn't it reason that gave us the means

那不是就是给我们方法

to despoil the planet

让我们破坏地球

and threaten our species with weapons of mass destruction?

用杀伤性武器来威胁我们种族的原因吗？

In this way of thinking, it's character and conscience,

以这种思维方法来看， 拯救我们的将是个性和良心，

not cold-hearted calculation, that will save us.

而不是冷血的计算。

Besides, a human being is not a brain on a stick.

此外，一个人的头脑包含的不仅仅是智慧。

My fellow psychologists have shown that we're led

我的同事心理学家指出

by our bodies and our emotions

我们不但受身体和情绪控制，

and use our puny powers of reason

而且依赖我们弱小的理性力量

merely to rationalize our gut feelings after the fact.

仅仅为了将事实后的直觉合理化。

RNG: How could a reasoned argument logically entail

丽贝卡：“一个理性的争论

the ineffectiveness of reasoned arguments?

又怎么可能逻辑性地产生理性争论的无效性？

Look, you're trying to persuade us of reason's impotence.

喂，你是想说服我们相信理性是没用的。

You're not threatening us or bribing us,

你没有在威胁我们或贿赂我们，

suggesting that we resolve the issue

暗示我们用举手表决

with a show of hands or a beauty contest.

或用选美比赛的方法来解决问题。

By the very act of trying to reason us into your position,

你这种试图让我们认同你的观点的行为，

you're conceding reason's potency.

事实上是在承认理性的效能。

Reason isn't up for grabs here. It can't be.

理性在这里不是轻易可得，绝不可能。

You show up for that debate

当你参与这个辩论时，

and you've already lost it.

你就已经失去了理性。

SP: But can reason lead us in directions

史迪芬：但理性可以为我们指引

that are good or decent or moral?

好的，体面的，或者道德的方向吗？

After all, you pointed out that reason

毕竟，你对理性的解释是

is just a means to an end,

它只是一种达到目的的手段 ，

and the end depends on the reasoner's passions.

而结果取决于理性思考者的热情。

Reason can lay out a road map to peace and harmony

理性可以为和谐与和平铺一张路线图

if the reasoner wants peace and harmony,

如果理性的人希望得到和平与和谐，

but it can also lay out a road map to conflict and strife

但它的路线图也可以指引到冲突和纷争

if the reasoner delights in conflict and strife.

如果理性的人喜欢在冲突和纷争中寻欢。

Can reason force the reasoner to want

理性可以强制一个理性者

less cruelty and waste?

去寻找更少的残酷和浪费吗？

RNG: All on its own, the answer is no,

丽贝卡： 光靠它自己的话不行，

but it doesn't take much to switch it to yes.

但要让它改变并不难。

You need two conditions:

您需要两个条件：

The first is that reasoners all care

首先理性者需要都关心

about their own well-being.

他们自己的福祉。

That's one of the passions that has to be present

这是一个为了使让理性去行动

in order for reason to go to work,

而必须存在的热情，

and it's obviously present in all of us.

而且很明显地我们所有人都有这股热情。

We all care passionately

我们都热情地关心

about our own well-being.

我们自己的幸福。

The second condition is that reasoners

第二个条件是理性者

are members of a community of reasoners

是整个理性团体的成员

who can affect one another's well-being,

他们可以影响互相的幸福，

can exchange messages,

可以交换消息，

and comprehend each other's reasoning.

和理解对方的理性思考。

And that's certainly true of our gregarious

这些的确符合我们作为合群的

and loquatious species,

和话多的物种的本性，

well endowed with the instinct for language.

授予了语言的本能。

SP: Well, that sounds good in theory,

史迪芬： 嗯，理论上听起来还不错，

but has it worked that way in practice?

但这种方法在实践中成功过吗？

In particular, can it explain

尤其是，它可以解释

a momentous historical development

我大约五年前在TED这里

that I spoke about five years ago here at TED?

讲过的一个重大的历史发展吗？

Namely, we seem to be getting more humane.

也就是说，我们似乎变得越来越仁慈了。

Centuries ago, our ancestors would burn cats alive

几个世纪前，我们的祖先还会将猫活烧

as a form of popular entertainment.

当作为一种大众的娱乐形式。

Knights waged constant war on each other

骑士们不断地

by trying to kill as many of each other's peasants as possible.

以杀尽对手的农名来向对方宣战。

Governments executed people for frivolous reasons,

各国政府为了一些琐屑无聊的原因 而处死自己的公民，

like stealing a cabbage

比如像偷白菜

or criticizing the royal garden.

或批评皇家花园。

The executions were designed to be as prolonged

处决通常都很漫长

and as painful as possible, like crucifixion,

而且非常痛苦，像被钉十字架，

disembowelment, breaking on the wheel.

剖腹，或者是轮刑。

Respectable people kept slaves.

可敬的人也变为奴隶。

For all our flaws, we have abandoned

就算我们有再多的缺点， 也已经停止了

these barbaric practices.

这些野蛮的行为。

RNG: So, do you think it's human nature that's changed?

丽贝卡： 那么，你觉得这是人的本性改变了?

SP: Not exactly. I think we still harbor instincts

史迪芬：不完全是。我觉得我们仍然怀有

that can erupt in violence,

爆发暴力行为的本能，

like greed, tribalism, revenge, dominance, sadism.

比如像贪婪，部落主义， 复仇， 支配， 虐待主义。

But we also have instincts that can steer us away,

但我们的某些本能 可以指导我们走正道，

like self-control, empathy, a sense of fairness,

比如像自我控制， 同感， 公正感，

what Abraham Lincoln called

亚伯拉罕 · 林肯将这些

the better angels of our nature.

称之为我们本性中更好的天使。

RNG: So if human nature didn't change,

丽贝卡： 所以如果人类的本性没有改变，

what invigorated those better angels?

是什么激活了这些更好的天使?

SP: Well, among other things,

史迪芬： 好吧，在其它方面，

our circle of empathy expanded.

我们的同感范围扩大了。

Years ago, our ancestors would feel the pain

很多年前，我们的祖先只会同情

only of their family and people in their village.

他们的家庭和他们村人。

But with the expansion of literacy and travel,

但随着文盲的减少和旅行的增加，

people started to sympathize

人们开始同情

with wider and wider circles,

更广泛的圈子，

the clan, the tribe, the nation, the race,

氏族， 部落， 民族， 种族，

and perhaps eventually, all of humanity.

或许最终会包括所有的人类。

RNG: Can hard-headed scientists

丽贝卡： 不感情用事的科学家们

really give so much credit to soft-hearted empathy?

真的对软心肠本质的同感有帮助吗？

SP: They can and do.

史迪芬： 他们可以而且会这样做。

Neurophysiologists have found neurons in the brain

神经生理学家发现大脑中的神经元

that respond to other people's actions

对他人行为做出的响应

the same way they respond to our own.

和对自己作出的响应是相同的。

Empathy emerges early in life,

同感在成长早期出现，

perhaps before the age of one.

也许在我们一岁之前。

Books on empathy have become bestsellers,

关于同感的书已经成为畅销书，

like "The Empathic Civilization"

像 "The Empathic Civilization"

and "The Age of Empathy."

和"The Age of Empathy."

RNG: I'm all for empathy. I mean, who isn't?

丽贝卡： 我完全赞成同感。又有谁会反对呢？

But all on its own, it's a feeble instrument

但在道德进步的过程中，

for making moral progress.

它单独只是一个微弱的工具。

For one thing, it's innately biased

一方面，它天生就对

toward blood relations, babies

血缘关系，婴儿

and warm, fuzzy animals.

和温暖毛茸茸的动物存在偏见。

As far as empathy is concerned,

就同感而言，

ugly outsiders can go to hell.

丑陋的局外人可以下地狱。

And even our best attempts to work up sympathy

甚至我们尽最大努力尝试 引起那些与我们脱轨的人

for those who are unconnected with us

内心的同情

fall miserably short, a sad truth about human nature

结果也是事与愿违，这是人类本性的一个悲哀事实

that was pointed out by Adam Smith.

亚当 · 史密斯指出。

Adam Smith: Let us suppose that the great empire

亚当 · 史密斯： 让我们假设伟大的帝国，

of China was suddenly swallowed up by an earthquake,

中国突然被地震吞没，

and let us consider how a man of humanity in Europe

试想一下一个欧洲人

would react on receiving intelligence

接到这场可怕的灾难的消息后

of this dreadful calamity.

会是怎样的反应。

He would, I imagine, first of all express very strongly

他会，我想，首先非常强烈的表示

his sorrow for the misfortune of that unhappy people.

他对那些不幸的人感到的悲哀。

He would make many melancholy reflections

他会对人类生命面对的危险

upon the precariousness of human life,

做很多的悲哀的反思，

and when all these humane sentiments

当所有这些仁慈的感伤

had been once fairly expressed,

以恰当的程度表达出后，

he would pursue his business or his pleasure

他将继续他的自己的生活与乐趣

with the same ease and tranquility

如何以往一样的舒适和宁静

as if no such accident had happened.

仿佛没有任何不幸发生过一样。

If he was to lose his little finger tomorrow,

如果他明天会失去他的小手指，

he would not sleep tonight,

他今晚会无法入睡，

but provided he never saw them,

但只要他从没见过受害者，

he would snore with the most profound security

他会选择打鼾的入睡

over the ruin of a hundred million of his brethren.

而不去担心超过1亿的同人所遭受的灾难。

SP: But if empathy wasn't enough to make us more humane,

史迪芬： 但如果同感不足够 让我们变得更加人性化，

what else was there?

哪还有什么可以？

RNG: Well, you didn't mention what might be

丽贝卡： 嗯，你还没有提到

one of our most effective better angels: reason.

也许是我们最有效的更好的天使之一： 理性。

Reason has muscle.

理性是有血有肉的。

It's reason that provides the push to widen

理性为我们扩展同感范围

that circle of empathy.

提供了推动力。

Every one of the humanitarian developments

你所提到的每一个 人道主义的发展

that you mentioned originated with thinkers

都起源于那些

who gave reasons for why some practice

理性地解释了为什么一些实践

was indefensible.

是站不住脚的思想家。

They demonstrated that the way people treated

他们表现出对待

some particular group of others

特别的人群

was logically inconsistent

与他们对待自己大方法

with the way they insisted on being treated themselves.

在逻辑上是不一致的。

SP: Are you saying that reason

史迪芬： 你是在说理性

can actually change people's minds?

其实是可以改变人们的思维吗？

Don't people just stick with whatever conviction

人们难道不是只跟随那些

serves their interests

对自己有利

or conforms to the culture that they grew up in?

或者符合他们文化背景的信念吗？

RNG: Here's a fascinating fact about us:

丽贝卡： 这是关于我们的一个有趣事实：

Contradictions bother us,

矛盾让我们不快，

at least when we're forced to confront them,

至少当我们被迫面对他们的时候，

which is just another way of saying

这只是对我们倾向于理性思考的

that we are susceptible to reason.

另外一种说法。

And if you look at the history of moral progress,

如果你观察我们过去 在道德上的进步，

you can trace a direct pathway from reasoned arguments

你可以找到从理性争论

to changes in the way that we actually feel.

到我们实际上感觉方式的变化的一条轨迹。

Time and again, a thinker would lay out an argument

一次又一次，一位思想家将争论

as to why some practice was indefensible,

为什么一些实践是站不住脚的，

irrational, inconsistent with values already held.

非理性的，与我们的现今价值观不一致的。

Their essay would go viral,

他们的论文会迅速传播，

get translated into many languages,

被译成多种语言，

get debated at pubs and coffee houses and salons,

在酒吧，咖啡屋，沙龙

and at dinner parties,

以及晚宴上被人们辩论，

and influence leaders, legislators,

它还可以影响领导人， 立法会议员，

popular opinion.

以及大众的意见。

Eventually their conclusions get absorbed

他们的结论最终被吸入到

into the common sense of decency,

正派常识中，

erasing the tracks of the original argument

将最初把我们带到

that had gotten us there.

那里的争论的轨迹抹掉。

Few of us today feel any need to put forth

今天很少人觉得需要提出

a rigorous philosophical argument

一个严格的哲学争论

as to why slavery is wrong

来说明为什么奴隶制是错误的

or public hangings or beating children.

或这公开绞刑，或殴打儿童。

By now, these things just feel wrong.

现在，这些行为都被认为是错的。

But just those arguments had to be made,

但那些争议必须被提出，

and they were, in centuries past.

而且存在了几个世纪。

SP: Are you saying that people needed

史迪芬： 你是在说我们需要

a step-by-step argument to grasp

一套步骤性的争论来理解

why something might be a wee bit wrong

为什么像火刑异教徒

with burning heretics at the stake?

这类行为是不对的吗？

RNG: Oh, they did. Here's the French theologian

丽贝卡： 哦，他们做了。这是法国神学家

Sebastian Castellio making the case.

塞巴斯蒂安 · 卡斯特利奥说的一段话。

Sebastian Castellio: Calvin says that he's certain,

塞巴斯蒂安 · 卡斯特利奥： 卡尔文说他确定，

and other sects say that they are.

而其他宗派说他们也是。

Who shall be judge?

谁来当法官呢？

If the matter is certain, to whom is it so? To Calvin?

如果这件事是肯定的， 是对谁来说呢？对卡尔文？

But then, why does he write so many books about manifest truth?

那他为什么还要写这么多关于已知真相的书呢？

In view of the uncertainty, we must define heretics

鉴于不确定性，我们必须将异教徒定义

simply as one with whom we disagree.

为一个人仅仅与我们持有不同意见的个人。

And if then we are going to kill heretics,

如果这样我们就要杀死异教徒，

the logical outcome will be a war of extermination,

逻辑性的结果就是一场灭绝的战争，

since each is sure of himself.

因为每个人都坚信自己的观点。

SP: Or with hideous punishments

史迪芬： 或许勇可怕的刑罚

like breaking on the wheel?

比如轮刑？

RNG: The prohibition in our constitution

丽贝卡： 美国宪法禁止

of cruel and unusual punishments

残忍和不寻常的刑罚

was a response to a pamphlet circulated in 1764

是对1764年由意大利法学家切西萨尔·贝卡里亚

by the Italian jurist Cesare Beccaria.

颁发的一本宣传小册的回应。

Cesare Beccaria: As punishments become more cruel,

西萨尔·贝卡里亚： 当刑罚变得更残酷时，

the minds of men, which like fluids

人的思想，就好像液体一样

always adjust to the level of the objects

总是变得像他们周围

that surround them, become hardened,

物体一样，变得无情，

and after a hundred years of cruel punishments,

在经历一百年的残忍刑罚后，

breaking on the wheel causes no more fear

轮刑不会比像以前那样

than imprisonment previously did.

比监禁造成更大的恐惧。

For a punishment to achieve its objective,

要让一种刑罚达到它的目标，

it is only necessary that the harm that it inflicts

只需要让它造成的伤害

outweighs the benefit that derives from the crime,

超过犯罪所带来的利益，

and into this calculation ought to be factored

这种计算应该考虑到

the certainty of punishment

刑罚的确定性

and the loss of the good

以及犯罪会产生的

that the commission of the crime will produce.

利益的丢失。

Everything beyond this is superfluous,

超出这些的都是多余的，

and therefore tyrannical.

所以它们都是暴虐。

SP: But surely antiwar movements depended

史迪芬： 但反战运动肯定取决于

on mass demonstrations

大规模示威

and catchy tunes by folk singers

民歌歌手那些上口的曲调

and wrenching photographs of the human costs of war.

还有那些让人看了觉得悲痛战争照片。

RNG: No doubt, but modern anti-war movements

丽贝卡： 没有怀疑，但是现代反战运动

reach back to a long chain of thinkers

可追溯到一长串的思想家

who had argued as to why we ought to mobilize

他们争论为什么我们将

our emotions against war,

反对战争的情绪表达出来，

such as the father of modernity, Erasmus.

其中包括现代性之父- 伊拉斯莫斯。

Erasmus: The advantages derived from peace

伊拉斯莫斯： 和平所带来的好处

diffuse themselves far and wide,

将自己弥漫到远方，

and reach great numbers,

影响到更多人，

while in war, if anything turns out happily,

然而在战争中，如果任何事是好的结果，

the advantage redounds only to a few,

优势只会回报少数几人，

and those unworthy of reaping it.

而且他们都是那些不值得获取回报的人。

One man's safety is owing to the destruction of another.

一个人的安全应归功于 对另一个人的破坏。

One man's prize is derived from the plunder of another.

一个人的奖是来自对另一个人的掠夺。

The cause of rejoicings made by one side

一边的欢庆

is to the other a cause of mourning.

是另一边的哀悼。

Whatever is unfortunate in war,

战争中的所有不幸，

is severely so indeed,

都非常的严重

and whatever, on the contrary,

与此任何相反的，

is called good fortune,

都被称为好运，

is a savage and a cruel good fortune,

是野蛮和残忍的好运气，

an ungenerous happiness deriving its existence from another's woe.

从他人的祸中得到的一种吝啬的幸福。

SP: But everyone knows that the movement

史迪芬： 但大家都知道

to abolish slavery depended on faith and emotion.

废除奴隶制运动 是取决于信念和情感。

It was a movement spearheaded by the Quakers,

它是由贵格会信徒 率先发起的一场运动

and it only became popular when Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel

它在哈丽特 · 比彻 · 斯托夫人的小说 "Uncle Tom's Cabin"

"Uncle Tom's Cabin" became a bestseller.

成为了一本畅销书后才成名。

RNG: But the ball got rolling a century before.

丽贝卡： 但这一运动在一个世纪前就开始了。

John Locke bucked the tide of millennia

约翰 · 洛克顶住几千年来的浪潮

that had regarded the practice as perfectly natural.

这曾被认为实践作为完美的自然。

He argued that it was inconsistent

他认为那是

with the principles of rational government.

与理性的政府的原则不一致的。

John Locke: Freedom of men under government

约翰 · 洛克： 公民在政府领导下的自由

is to have a standing rule to live by

是依靠一个规则来生活

common to everyone of that society

这个规则对社会的每个人都一样

and made by the legislative power erected in it,

而且是由竖立它的立法权力来制定，

a liberty to follow my own will in all things

一个自由让我在所有事上面 都可以追随自己意愿

where that rule prescribes not,

在此这条规则不规定，

not to be subject to the inconstant,

无须接受另一个人的无常，

uncertain, unknown, arbitrary will of another man,

不确定，未知，和随意的希望，

as freedom of nature is to be under no other restraint

作为自然的自由权就是除了自然法则

but the law of nature.

它不受到任何其他约束。

SP: Those words sound familiar.

史迪芬： 这句话我好像听过。

Where have I read them before? Ah, yes.

我是在哪听说的呢？啊，对的。

Mary Astell: If absolute sovereignty be not necessary

玛丽· 阿斯特尔： 如果绝对主权在一个国家

in a state, how comes it to be so in a family?

不是必要的，那为什么在一个家庭要是呢？

Or if in a family, why not in a state?

或者如果在家庭里是必要的，为什么在国家不是呢？

Since no reason can be alleged for the one

因为我们找不出任何理由

that will not hold more strongly for the other,

让我们可以只是支持其中一个观点，而不同时支持另外的观点

if all men are born free,

如果所有人 天生就有自由，

how is it that all women are born slaves,

为什么所有女人天生是奴隶，

as they must be if being subjected

因为她们必须是

to the inconstant, uncertain,

当她们遭到无常、 不确定

unknown, arbitrary will of men

未知，和男人随意的意愿

be the perfect condition of slavery?

这不正是完美奴役状况的吗？

RNG: That sort of co-option

丽贝卡： 那类的共同选择

is all in the job description of reason.

都在理性的工作职责中。

One movement for the expansion of rights

一个扩大权利的运动

inspires another because the logic is the same,

激发另一个因为逻辑是一样的，

and once that's hammered home,

当它费尽全力让某人理解的时候，

it becomes increasingly uncomfortable

它会变得越来越不舒服

to ignore the inconsistency.

若要忽略不一致的问题。

In the 1960s, the Civil Rights Movement

在20世纪60 年代， 民权运动

inspired the movements for women's rights,

启发了妇女权利的运动，

children's rights, gay rights and even animal rights.

儿童权利，同性恋权利，甚至动物权利。

But fully two centuries before,

但两个世纪前，

the Enlightenment thinker Jeremy Bentham

启蒙思想家 杰里米 · 边沁

had exposed the indefensibility

暴露了习惯性实践的

of customary practices such as

不可靠性

the cruelty to animals.

比如说残酷对待动物。

Jeremy Bentham: The question is not, can they reason,

杰里米 · 边沁： 问题不是它们能不能理性思考，

nor can they talk, but can they suffer?

也不是它们能不能说话，而是它们能否感到痛苦。

RNG: And the persecution of homosexuals.

丽贝卡： 还有对同性恋者的迫害。

JB: As to any primary mischief,

史迪芬： 对任何主要的恶作剧，

it's evident that it produces no pain in anyone.

很明显它没有给任何人带来痛苦。

On the contrary, it produces pleasure.

与此相反，它会产生快感。

The partners are both willing.

双方都愿意。

If either of them be unwilling,

如果其中一方不愿意，

the act is an offense,

那么该行为就是一种冒犯，

totally different in its nature of effects.

在其影响的性质完全不同。

It's a personal injury. It's a kind of rape.

它是人身伤害。它是一种强奸。

As to the any danger exclusive of pain,

就好像任何不带痛苦的危险，

the danger, if any, much consist

如果有这种危险， 多存在于

in the tendency of the example.

示例的倾向中。

But what is the tendency of this example?

但此示例的倾向是什么？

To dispose others to engage in the same practices.

安排他人从事同样的做法。

But this practice produces not pain of any kind

但这种做法不会产生任何一种痛苦

to anyone.

对任何人都是。

SP: Still, in every case, it took at least a century

史迪芬： 但是，每一个案例都花了至少一个世纪

for the arguments of these great thinkers

这些伟大思想家的争论

to trickle down and infiltrate the population as a whole.

垂滴和渗透到整个人类。

It kind of makes you wonder about our own time.

它会让你会想知道我们自己的时间。

Are there practices that we engage in

在我们参与的实践中，

where the arguments against them are there for all to see

有没有将 反对他们的论点有给大家看

but nonetheless we persist in them?

但我们仍然坚持？

RNG: When our great grandchildren look back at us,

丽贝卡： 当我们的曾孙子回看我们的时候，

will they be as appalled by some of our practices

他们会不会因为我们的一些实践感到震惊

as we are by our slave-owning, heretic-burning,

就好像我们对那些拥有奴隶，焚烧异教徒，

wife-beating, gay-bashing ancestors?

殴打妻子、 贬低同性恋的祖先一样呢？

SP: I'm sure everyone here could think of an example.

史迪芬: 我相信在这里的每个人 都能想到的一个例子。

RNG: I opt for the mistreatment of animals

丽贝卡： 我选择虐待动物的行为

in factory farms.

在工厂化的农场。

SP: The imprisonment of nonviolent drug offenders

史迪芬： 对非暴力毒品罪犯的监禁

and the toleration of rape in our nation's prisons.

和我们国家的监狱中对强奸行为的容忍。

RNG: Scrimping on donations to life-saving charities

丽贝卡：对针对发展中国家 拯救生命慈善机构

in the developing world.

捐款的吝啬。

SP: The possession of nuclear weapons.

史迪芬： 拥有核武器。

RNG: The appeal to religion to justify

丽贝卡： 诉诸于宗教 要求他们给予

the otherwise unjustifiable,

其它途径得不到的公正。

such as the ban on contraception.

如对避孕的禁令。

SP: What about religious faith in general?

史迪芬：还有一般的宗教信仰呢？

RNG: Eh, I'm not holding my breath.

丽贝卡： 哎，我期望不高。

SP: Still, I have become convinced

史迪芬： 不过，我还是相信

that reason is a better angel

理性是一个更好的天使

that deserves the greatest credit

它在我们人类享受过去的道德进步

for the moral progress our species has enjoyed

和对未来的进步

and that holds out the greatest hope

抱着大希望方面

for continuing moral progress in the future.

有着最大的功劳。

RNG: And if, our friends,

丽贝卡： 如果，我们的朋友们，

you detect a flaw in this argument,

你如果在这个争论中 检测到缺陷的存在，

just remember you'll be depending on reason

请记得以理性的方式

to point it out.

来将它们找出来。

Thank you. SP: Thank you.

谢谢。 史迪芬·平克：“谢谢大家。”

(Applause)

掌声